Chiefs GM: 'I have seen Todd Haley improve'
by Joel Thorman on Dec 18, 2009 10:04 AM CST
in 2009 Kansas City Chiefs Campaign
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PrintWithin the last few weeks there have been some reports floating around that Kansas City Chiefs GM Scott Pioli and head coach Todd Haley haven't been seeing eye to eye. Specifically, FOX Sports' Jay Glazer said on WFAN several weeks ago that he has heard the two weren't on the same page.
Not so, says Scott Pioli. In a spot with Kevin Kietzmann of 810 WHB, Pioli said that, while he's been disappointed at times this season, he's seen plenty of encouragement and improvement from not only the team, but his head coach as well.
"I have seen Todd improve on a lot of levels," Pioli said on 810 yesterday afternoon. "He's making smarter decisions. He's made us a smarter team and a more disciplined team."
Pioli admits that stats don't necessarily tell the whole story but early on in the Chiefs were 27th in penalties but now they sit at 9th, a sign of the team becoming more disciplined under Haley's watch.
"We have to understand he's 13 games into the first time in this job," Pioli continued.
"I've been with some great coaches who I know are going to the Hall of Fame and I've seen them make mistakes. I think what magnifies these mistakes is the situation, when you're 3-10.
"This team is making progress. I know it's a hard thing to say at 3-10 but I know we're making progress."
Take it for what it's worth but Pioli's words would indicate that the reports of he and Pioli not getting along are false.
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Egoli
is the type of guy that wouldn’t let on otherwise. Haley could be historically doing the worst job as a rookie HC ever and it would be far from Pioli to badmouth him. He’s a company guy, that towes company lines, and he’d be the last person in this organization to misstep or say the wrong thing.
Welcome to Chiefs REBUILD - Version 2.0 /The Clark Hunt Edition
Chiefs will be lucky to go 4-12 in 2010
by KansasCityShuffle on Dec 18, 2009 10:08 AM CST reply actions
What do you want Shuffle?
Were you expecting a magical winning record after the utter collapse of the previous 3 seasons? Would you have preferred the coaching hires of St Louis, Cleveland, Detroit, Tampa Bay or New York? I’m not trying to insult you, but I just don’t understand what you would expect.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
I agree here
I guess I would have been good with Spagnola (however you spell it) but I am content with Todd Haley and willing to give him 2 more years before I pass complete judgement.
I think Haley has matured a lot this season!
"I’d go to battle with him every day of the week." Todd Haley on Matt Cassel
This statement is why I am on the Cassel train, drinkin the Kool-Aid!
You seem mislead
I was just making observation and mainly pointing out that it’s no surprise to see Pioli endorsing his own choice for HC. It would be news here if he didn’t. I wasn’t inferring anything. Be assured if I had something to bitch about I’d be out with it already
Welcome to Chiefs REBUILD - Version 2.0 /The Clark Hunt Edition
Chiefs will be lucky to go 4-12 in 2010
by KansasCityShuffle on Dec 18, 2009 1:29 PM CST up reply actions
I get you. That's right on.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
ok, gotcha
sorry for misunderstanding
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
Generally good points, but your spin on it is unnecessarily negative, KCS.
It’d be totally out of character for Pioli to badmouth Haley at this point. Duh.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
hi hmills .. i keep meaning to send you a shout out and keep forgetting.
I hope all is well I have not forgotten you my friend.
Nod.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
One thing Kietzman does exceptionally well is an Interview.
And this one was excellent.
He knew what not to waste his time on (WHO ARE YOU GONNA DRAFT?) and instead focused on more in-depth questions (What’s your strategy?).
Fantastic interview, Kevin, if you’re out there.
See Data Differently.
beyondtheboxscore.com | Twitter: @ justinbopp
Agreed
I was impressed with his questions.
by Joel Thorman on Dec 18, 2009 10:36 AM CST up reply actions
Pioli may or may not believe it
I don’t know Pioli personally, but we know a lot of people in that business say stuff whether it’s true or not. That being said, I’m sure Haley is continuing to grow as an effective head coach.
However, in hindsight, firing Gailey was by far the worst mistake Haley has made.
I disagree.
My issue was with getting QB before ensuring they could protect him. And there are mitigating factors in that decision.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Even that would not have been such a big deal
If the offense had been designed in a way to hide the O-lines weakness.
That was something Gailey did very well and unfortunately, Haley who had all these plays he’d probably drawn up for years and was chomping at the bit to put in ignored the O-lines weakness and tried to cram it down their throat, which has been a large part of the offenses failures this year.
That's a tough call for me, ChiefDJ.
Gailey’s genius in hiding the O-Line’s weakness produced some good numbers in a few categories, and a whopping 2 wins. Haley’s ineptitude has garnered a mere 3 wins, with 3 games left to play, missing the biggest playmaker from the year before.
So I’m not even sure that Haley’s way hurt their chances of winning this year, and, while I’m not privy to the actual details of the decision-making and player/group-development process, I know from my own experience that sometimes, by compromising on fundamentals, I can win a few, today, but store up troubles for myself, tomorrow. Not saying that this is the case, but I know the o-line is in flux, and running the spread all THIS season, and I haven’t made any progress in moving away from being a mere college team running a college/high-school offense.
They’re deeply into a player-remediation and evaluation process. They have to be, at this point in time. Running Arrowspread doesn’t translate into wins and may set you back on how you want your players to play and evaluating who’s really better.
I HATE Cassel’s numbers in recent weeks. But I LOVE the fact that I’ve seen him hit the hands of an open receiver 16 yards down the field on 3rd-and-9. Maybe you were fooled last year, but the offense I saw on the field had only a remote chance of generating anything positive, if it filled its game with gimmicks. What Haley’s doing looks much more fundamentally sound, and capable of more growth in the future.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
by hmills110 on Dec 18, 2009 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not saying we had to go with the Arrowspread
I hated that gimmicky spread offense.
But there are other things you can do to work with a weak offensive line besides running LJ off tackle and doing 5 and 7 step drops like Haley insisted on doing for most of the first half of the season.
Gailey already knew that wasn’t going to work and so he found ways of getting around it. Haley could have done the same thing, but he had to learn the hard way the same way he has had to learn the hard way about other things. He has learned that you can’t just rip guys all day long and force them to do something they aren’t capable of doing. It just took him a long time to admit it.
So no, I have no problems whatsoever with getting Cassel before we had the perfect offensive line because a franchise QB (which Pioli believes he is) is much more difficult to find than a competent offensive line.
I’m not down on Cassel like many are. I think his play would improve if he was getting the attention of a competent QB coach and the undivided attention of an offensive coordinator. Haley has never been a QB coach, so I do not think he is at all qualified for that job and I think Cassel and the entire offense has suffered because of Haleys insistence of running everything himself.
Hopefully next year, with those lessons behind him, Haley will begin delegating more and hopefully they will keep the same offensive scheme to let the players grow into rather than making them all start over again.
Boller
I agree that Cassell needs the time and attention of a solid QB coach and the OC. I agree. Cassell needs it within a reasonable amount of time too, before unproductive habits are ingrained. It’s hard to bloom late if they didn’t get what they needed to progress up front. It’s not tragic — I mean they still get paid, compared to us average working folk, but it’s wasteful. Klye
Boller comes to mind. He was motivated, but confused. He had a year of development at Cal during Tedford’s first year before he went to the Ravens, where he languished in a system that didn’t know how to develop him. A lot of energy was spent on him about three years later. Too late. We don’t want a situation like that with Cassell at KC. Right now, Cassell appears to be running mostly on the fumes of his NE development, and he needs to be developed further.
Gailey's firing was not a mistake
…if his strategy didn’t mesh with the head coach. It would have been far worse to implement the system over this season, then blow it up & start over next year. I actually respect Haley a lot for making that decision, though obviously it would have been nice had it been done earlier.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
didn't mesh?
I’m sure Gailey and Haley are all about putting points on the board. Any strategy involves the type/quality of players under the team. Gailey understand this and adapts his plays to his player’s strengths. And, Haley has struggled because he confuses the Chiefs with his former Zona players, where he used to throw it at will.
Haley is still young and may be a great head coach someday. But, right now, Gailey is the better coach and offense coordinator.
If you recall...
Haley wanted a much more balanced offense than he ran in Zona, indicated by the attempted power run game deployment with LJ that failed miserably.
A lot of the throwing that went on during that span was due to the miserable running game and the fact that we were playing from behind in most situations.
"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius, in contrary to Glenn Dorsey lining up in the 2-tech
You're too quick with your comebacks.
You’re not supposed to make these kinds of retorts, so that tomorrow the nay-sayers can complain about Haley’s stupidity for trying to play smash-mouth with LJ and failing utterly.
Haley DEFinitely wants to run the ball and use the play-fake in the passing game.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
and THAT'S why we should have Steve DeBerg in at QB
best play-action ever
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
What, no Grbac?
The man sold play-fakes like none other. He also sold Carl Peterson on his ability to play QB…that one didn’t go so well.
/shudder
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
by go_saleaumua on Dec 19, 2009 8:12 AM CST up reply actions
I agree with you JMC
It had to be done. Anything else would have prolonged the inevitable. it was better to scrap this season and get the offense on the right path now, polish it up this offseason and, hopefully, compete next year with a MUCH better Pro-style offense on the field.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 18, 2009 3:08 PM CST up reply actions
what would be a "ringing" endorsement? did you actually listen to the interview? he's very supportive of haley
The only players I hurt with my words are the ones who have an inflated opinion of their ability. I can't worry about that.
Bill Parcells
Knowledge is confidence. And confidence lets you play fast.
Bill Parcells
he has to be supportive
if Pioli isn’t, he’s basically admitting a mistake.
you can make comments that aren't supportive such as
“we will evaluate todd and the coaches at the end of the year.”
that would indicate he doesn’t think he’s doing a good job. when he says they are planning a meeting on the flight back from denver (last game of the season) to start mapping out next year, it’s a pretty clear indicator he believes in haley for the long run. your mentality is making it a damned if you do,damned if you don’t situation.
The only players I hurt with my words are the ones who have an inflated opinion of their ability. I can't worry about that.
Bill Parcells
Knowledge is confidence. And confidence lets you play fast.
Bill Parcells
Depends
on what the agenda of the meeting will be.
by Lost in Denver on Dec 18, 2009 11:27 AM CST up reply actions
i said in my comment to start mapping out next year..WITH haley
The only players I hurt with my words are the ones who have an inflated opinion of their ability. I can't worry about that.
Bill Parcells
Knowledge is confidence. And confidence lets you play fast.
Bill Parcells
you can't fire me! i qui....wait a minute...you almost tricked me but you're the one who is wrong
The only players I hurt with my words are the ones who have an inflated opinion of their ability. I can't worry about that.
Bill Parcells
Knowledge is confidence. And confidence lets you play fast.
Bill Parcells
Stop firing people!
We’re running low on APers as it is since PA left!
My sentiments are likely to be summed up with one of these 2 quotes:
"Shut the f--- up."
-Matt Cassel
"WHAT THE F---?!?!"
-Todd Haley
R.I.P. C.H., #15
by Red N Gold Beast on Dec 18, 2009 1:28 PM CST up reply actions
I think it is a strong endorsement for a 3-10 first time head coach.
If Pioli wasn’t going to back Haley he would of said something like. “We are going to look at every area of this team from front office to scouting to coaching to the players to see where we need to get better.” We’ve heard both he and Haley use that “blanket” statement before to imply that nobody is safe. I think the fact that he is saying he sees improvement in Haley, points out things Haley has improved, and talks about HOF coaches that he’s worked with making similar mistakes pretty much says “Haley is my guy, period.”
Feeling "The Love" and "Drinking the Kool AId"
since he DIDN'T say that, does that mean he's pleased with scouting as well as coaching?
I know I’m not
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
Piolis Mistake?
I think Piolis biggest mistake was hiring Haley under the assumption that Haleys “I MEAN BUISNESS” attitude would be something to help shock the team into execution. At the same time, I think that same attitude is what will make him an excellent coach in the future.
Toby J. Neal
Like all young head coaches
Haley has to moderate his philosophical opinions he had coming in with the reality of the situation.
Its easy when you’re not the boss to sit back and say “If I were the one in charge I’d do it this way”. Its completely different when you ARE the guy in charge and you start finding out why your other boss didn’t do things that way.
While I haven’t seen a lot of improvment in the team this year (90% of the improvment people perceive is based on Larry Johnson getting kicked off the team so that they finally were FORCED to play Jamaal Charles), I HAVE seen some changes in Haley that I think are for the better.
Hopefully his experiences this year will make him a better coach next year.
I think he has progressed this season
And with a full offseason this team WILL improve
"I’d go to battle with him every day of the week." Todd Haley on Matt Cassel
This statement is why I am on the Cassel train, drinkin the Kool-Aid!
Haley was AMAZINGLY aggressive and organized in many respects.
This offseason, he won’t have the “start-up” issues, and he’ll turn his attention to other things.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
KC4Life, I agree that Haley has progressed ... his press conferences are MUCH better now than at the beginning of the season
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
Yeah
I think so as well. He still looks hungover at times but he is getting better.
I think he can be a very good coach if hes given time to develop.
My main argument is that I don’t want to turn into the Lions, Browns, etc. and blow this thing up every year
"I’d go to battle with him every day of the week." Todd Haley on Matt Cassel
This statement is why I am on the Cassel train, drinkin the Kool-Aid!
I tend you agree with you there, DJ.
Getting at least 1.5 of his three jobs off of the old resume would help…Even if he remains playcaller next year, I still foresee an OC and a quarterbacks coach coming in.
Watching his on-field demeanor and interactions with players change has been fascinating. I can only hope that our on-field performance, and his coaching, have a similar growth curve in ’10…
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
by go_saleaumua on Dec 19, 2009 8:17 AM CST up reply actions
I was impressed with the interview, and glad I got to hear it.
Pioli showed almost unwavering support of Haley, and also said it’s Haley’s decisions on who his coaching staff is, and if they hire anyone. He’s not going to force Haley’s hand, in otherwords.
Also glad they put that “we don’t talk” crap to bed. I was getting annoyed with that.
If you only knew...
Excellent interview and Pioli put all the garbage out for idiots to feed on
Haley is doing fine. If his QB was accurate and his WR could catch, he would be hailed as a genius. He’ll get better WR’s and we’ll see how Cassel pans out.
The Haley-haters just got reamed…..with common sense and facts.
Pioli told me that Haley is doing good enough right now in improving that he will keep hiim
around for another 2 years unless he blows it in 2010. Which is weird because I’ve never actually talked to Scott. Yah, I can call him Scott. It’s like that.
"It's like that."
lol…You’re a funny man, Krayfish.
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
by go_saleaumua on Dec 19, 2009 8:19 AM CST up reply actions
I think Haley has improved.
I think he is learning the job. If he can get an offensive coordinator in he trusts this offseason, he could turn into a good head coach. I’ve already seen some improvement in how he deals with players and game management. In my opinion, he has made 2 overall mistakes this season:
1) He fired Chan Gailey… or maybe the mistake was trying to hold onto him in the first place without a relationship of trust there.
2) Cutting Pollard. For a team that gives up a lot of big plays, getting rid of the guy that made a lot of big gain-saving tackles hurt. He’s playing very well for the Texans. I understand that some will disagree, but our safeties have been terrible in coverage this year, and I find it hard to believe that he could be any worse than they are.
The team is playing more disciplined (less penalties, less dumb plays overall), but right now the talent level isn’t there and it seems like we’re forcing things a lot trying to make things happen. The more talent you have on the field, the less you have to do that. I’m hopeful still that we can build the talent for that to be true.
Don't know if you got the memo...
But Pollard has the worst burn rate among DBs in the league.
"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius, in contrary to Glenn Dorsey lining up in the 2-tech
by ArrowSpread on Dec 18, 2009 12:23 PM CST up reply actions
Man-love hath no reason.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
I have to admit...
that was funny.
I was basing my statement on what analysts were saying the last Texans game I watched (I don’t even remember who it was against) and he made 2 great plays in a row… and I missed that. Our defense generally does not make great plays. I should have known better than to listen to Matt Millen or whoever the crap it was.
I would love to see stats on “burn rates”. In fact, I would love to know a site where you can get all kinds of advanced stats. I find them occasionally on forums, but many seem to be run by fans and seem to be updates when they feel like it, which I understand.
I will say that even if he’s the worst in coverage in the league, our safeties can’t be far behind. I know as of a few weeks ago, we were the worst team in the NFL vs. tight ends. Our safeties also aren’t very good in pursuit or tackling. That’s one area where we really miss a player like him.
by u2nspenserfan on Dec 18, 2009 3:53 PM CST up reply actions
Same as always
Pollard always made some big plays. Problem is, he makes a lot of bad plays too. One good play…then gets smoked on the next two or three plays.
Not worth it.
I'd like to see how that burn rate is winning them games
The negatives far outweigh the positives with that guy. It’s not even arguable.
"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius, in contrary to Glenn Dorsey lining up in the 2-tech
I don't know if its taken from an authentic piece of pottery or not
But the style of it is based on Greek Black Figure pottery
Since I was a kid I was always interested in ancient greek culture and history.
If anyone has a chance...
Watch the “America’s Game” episode with the 86 Giants. It’s personally my second favorite episode (after the 69 Chiefs, of course) because it’s actually really funny and heartwarming. But, most importantly, after watching it again this year, I can draw so many parallels to the Chiefs with it. Parcell’s first year with the Giants was far from spectacular (they only won 3 games) no one had faith in Phil Simms, and most of the players did not care for Parcells attitude and demand for respect when he first took on HC duties.
It’s a really, REALLY good, funny episode that hits VERY close to home this year. If any ofyou have access to the episode, or know someone who does, I HIGHLY encourage anyone on here (regardless of any opinions you have of either the Giants or Chiefs) to watch it.
My long, drawn-out predictions that no one cares about, nor will bother to remember:
1. Todd Haley will still be the Chiefs Head Coach up to the 2011 season.
2. Clancy Pendergast won't make it to the 2010 season and was never intended to. Last-minute hire for a position that needed to be filled.
3. Todd Haley will not be the OC at the start of the 2010 season.
by jbj8609 on Dec 18, 2009 12:03 PM CST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
I saw that one a while back.
I don’t think Parcells demanded respect. More like, he commanded it, because he did what he thought was right and didn’t care what you thought about him. Knew he had the authority to do things a certain way and just used it. But definitely an abrasive, in-your-face way of putting things.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Nice interview.
Mainly reminding me of how Don Pioli comes across, and if there’s ego in it, it’s all about being a better team and winning, and not about winning pissin’ contests with underlings. There’s zero condescension in him. There was always an air of “I’m being gracious, even though I know I’m an important man,” in Peterson. The don’s just a thoughtful guy, who wants the right things to happen more than he wants to get his way on any one thing. I just get this enlightened self-interest feeling from him.
I like the way he speaks frankly about the factors that go into personnel decisions. Peterson would state things in such a way as to defend his previous decisions. Pioli would explain his reasoning, and admit that not all of the decisions turned out to be great ones.
It’s hard to put into words. But Studebaker comments come to mind. In the context of the conversation, he wasn’t acting like he had some secret formula for FINDING Studebaker, or that he was a genius for having unearthed a good player. Instead, it was all about where the Chiefs are, and how the development of a player like Studebaker impacts their assessment of team needs today. Trying to explain his method of “roster churning” was pretty cool.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
i agree. i really can't figure out where this "egoli" label gets its legs
other than by whitlock. i guess some people really can’t think for themselves
The only players I hurt with my words are the ones who have an inflated opinion of their ability. I can't worry about that.
Bill Parcells
Knowledge is confidence. And confidence lets you play fast.
Bill Parcells
Maybe it's a combination of a couple (or more) things.
Pioli’s not going out of his way to blow smoke up your ass with self-serving bullshit. The previous regime was a lot more willing to go all “car salesman” on you. After years of image manipulation, there’s a high degree of skepticism. The previous regime doled out special access to a chosen few. I think there’s some resentment by loss of certain access privileges by the guys reporting the news.
I think Pioli’s less interested in selling the product than in improving the product.
There’s no dog-and-pony show to win allegiance. Just a quiet pride in the tradition, and an intense love and interest in the game.
I felt like the interviewer was a bit too pushy on the offensive coordinator issue, but then I’m on the opposite side of the fence from most, with regard to the OC situation, and Pioli basically said what I’ve been saying. If Haley were more interested in pleasing us than in doing things right, he would’ve kept Gailey and engaged in blame-shifting and back-stabbing all season long, when he knew full well that the WR and OL were almost certain to struggle and suffer a lot of flux.
Maybe Haley is stretched too thin. Maybe not. About all I know about it is he’s already shown himself to be a better manager in terms of organizing activities in pursuit of a goal. I’m not saying Vermeil didn’t know how to run a fast-paced and purposeful practice, but DV is one of the giants on whose shoulders Haley is standing, which means that Haley has the advantage of learning more about what works and what doesn’t than Vermeil ever had when he entered the head coaching ranks. Before that, Marty thought working harder and longer was the same as working smarter. Gun was much the same.
Beyond that, if you correlate head coaches with OC duties with SB success, their rate of success is actually higher than those who don’t have the dual role. Combined with what I think I see in Haley as an organization/planning/preparation man, whether or not he chooses to OC, himself, is entirely his call. And even if he does hire an OC, the job description for OC may be unlike what anybody else does, because Haley is pretty much open to ANYthing that works, and has a knack (I believe) for delegating tasks and sharing authority in innovative ways. A guy like that is LIKELY to struggle, at first, but is more likely to come up with ways of doing things that are clearly better than the way anybody before him has done them.
The message from Pioli is to get the best people you can to help you. Give them responsibility and the authority needed to properly exercise that authority. Really liked what he said about letting Haley do his own thing with regard to the guys under him. If Haley’s no good, then he’ll have plenty of rope to hang himself, but if he is good, you’re not putting stumbling blocks in front of him.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
by hmills110 on Dec 18, 2009 1:02 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
It's not even that creative.
If it was actually funny, that would be one thing. I never understood why anyone would think lame, uninspired name-calling would somehow add credibility to their argument.
My long, drawn-out predictions that no one cares about, nor will bother to remember:
1. Todd Haley will still be the Chiefs Head Coach up to the 2011 season.
2. Clancy Pendergast won't make it to the 2010 season and was never intended to. Last-minute hire for a position that needed to be filled.
3. Todd Haley will not be the OC at the start of the 2010 season.
by jbj8609 on Dec 18, 2009 1:19 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Then you remember little about Marketing 101 and history.
One catch-phrase or nickname can carry more weight than all the facts in the world. “Yellow peril.” “Better red than dead.” “Better dead than red.” "Satch-Mo’. "
It’s not about adding credibility, directly. It’s about capturing the imagination and lodging ideas in the (sub)conscious. An artifact of how the brain works.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Using Egoli
It is an attempt to degrade anything the man says or does. No matter what Pioli says, there is either an alterative motive, deception, or arrogance that should not be believed or listened to.
I like our how this Front Office is ran.
yup
Would ya like a free NANAA!
by Jazzy Megalodon on Dec 18, 2009 12:30 PM CST reply actions
I have seen some improvement...
But, In the last few weeks i have seen his number one guy,Cassel, take a nose dive….14 and 41 Qb rating last two weeks….and his receiving corps, which is supposed to be his specialty, have been terrible all yr and not showing any improvement. I understand mistakes, but when your 14 games into the season, you should be seeing promise for next yr. Players should be improving week in and week out. Getting blown out in back to back weeks against division opponents and then losing to Buffalo when their QB throws for a total of 87 yrd has really soured me. Im not ready to give the guy the boot yet, but if the Chiefs dont have at least a 3-2 record to start the season next yr, im jumping off his bandwagon. He has GOT to relenquish some of his duties next yr so he can focus on being a HC….he simply has taken on too much…some coaches can handle it, not Haley IMO.
why 3-2? what if they have a schedule that pairs them against both super bowl participants and
the other 2 teams from the afc/nfc championship game? i don’t know what their schedule will be next year but i suspect the best to evaluate a team is after an entire season. so, after next year, you don’t see significant improvement, jumping off the bandwagon is understandable (if that’s your thing) but after 5 games? i don’t know about that
The only players I hurt with my words are the ones who have an inflated opinion of their ability. I can't worry about that.
Bill Parcells
Knowledge is confidence. And confidence lets you play fast.
Bill Parcells
Cassel's struggles: All about the matchups.
I think KC has made progress against Denver and San Diego in the trenches. San Diego, Denver, and Buffalo are all three much better on the perimeter (both sides) than KC.
I’m disappointed by the lack of wins, as are we all. But I’m seeing far fewer mental errors, and this explains Haley’s apparent change in demeanor on the sideline. It’s one thing to be beaten because you’re a step slow, but to lose because of penalties and bonehead mistakes is simply intolerable.
While I’m sure they want to upgrade the talent, it looks to me like they have a foundation of guys who practice right and play smart. This is really going to help long-term.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Not KCs bandwagon.....Haleys bandwagon
The reason I say 3-2…cause history shows that teams with a record worse than that, do not have much of a chance to go to the bandwagon….unless missing the playoffs again is YOUR thing…
Marty was almost always 3-4 or 4-3
in all of the years he went to the playoffs.
"The way this works is you string together some good games, some good practices and you get momentum and you gain confidence," linebacker Mike Vrabel said. "It can be a real positive for your team. It builds on itself."
Not that far at all
But once you’re there, your odds of taking it all go up considerably more than where we are now.
So you want Marty and Carl back?
Sorry. I think the problem here is using a Marty example to defend the current regime kinda leaves me wrong-footed.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
missing the playoffs isn't my thing (nice passive aggressiveness there)
i’m just saying we’ve won 3 games through 13 games this year and now you expect them to win 3 of their first 5 next year without any knowledge of a) schedule for next year b) offseason moves (coaches and players). it just seems crazy to me. i expect them to improve next year but i’m not about to start saying i expect “x” number of wins by week 5. it just doesn’t make sense to me. for the record, as of right now, i don’t expect them to make the playoffs next year. i sure want them to but i think that that expectation is unrealistic right now
The only players I hurt with my words are the ones who have an inflated opinion of their ability. I can't worry about that.
Bill Parcells
Knowledge is confidence. And confidence lets you play fast.
Bill Parcells
"I expect them to contend," he said, taking another gulp of the mysterious red beverage.
Meanwhile, it’ll be fun watching how they go about things. They’ve made great strides in terms of culture and football environment. They’ve installed a true meritocracy, rather than an arbitrary (non-) system of punishments and rewards based as much on personalities as on actual deeds. There’s more interest in winning as a team than in building highlight reels for individuals.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Actually... the opponents in next season's schedule are already set
Obviously the Chiefs play six games against the AFC West. They’ll also play all of the teams in the AFC South (Colts, Jaguars, Titans and Texans) and the NFC West (Cardinals, 49ers, Seahawks and Rams). That leaves only two games, which are played against two teams in your conference that finished the season at the same position in their division as you did in yours. Only those opponents are unknown at this time – but if the season ended today, it would be the Bills and the Browns.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
I DO...
Im tired of losing…im tired of making excuses, im tired of “almost there”. Ive been a die hard fan since the mid 80s, a season ticket holder, i buy merchandise, i never miss a game, I pay Direct tv 250 bucks extra a yr to get the games here in AZ(so when u said “if thats your thing” it kinda pissed me off)….Next yr, i want to see some SERIOUS moves made. If there is a player we like..GO GET HIM!..Dont be cheap like in yrs past with Carl, Fucking pay someone with talent to come here and kick some ass! Make moves in the draft to get the player you WANT, not gamble or settle.
Yes Ihave BIG expectations for this team. Ive seen one playoff win in 25 yrs. I want a team that is good on both sides of the ball…not just one. I want a head coach that knows what the fuck he is doing, and not just as responsible for a loss as his team because he makes bonehead decisions.
I didnt say we HAVE to make the playoffs next yr…I said we should have a CHANCE to make it. A winning record, significant improvement that gives me hope for the next season. Right now, we are a laughing stock and that is not acceptable to me…..it’s…. not my thing
Actually Carl wasn't cheap.
He just got the team into poor position under the cap doing some of the very things you seem to want Pioli to do.
It’s a tricky thing building a perennial contender, and it’s not achieved by making Dan Snyder-type headlines in free agency. Might KC be a major player in FA at some point? Wouldn’t be surprised, at all. But real team-building isn’t very sexy, most of the time.
They’re still laying the foundations. But it looks like they’re in much better position to actually benefit from the moves they make, remaining competitive when the injury bug DOES strike, but just as importantly, they’re doing more to keep their guys healthy in the first place. It’s hard to quantify, which makes it hard for us to judge it intelligently, but I look at the conditioning program and the systematic upgrading of depth and then I look at our best players, and I notice they’re mostly staying healthy.
In the past 10 or 20 years, ’most every FA splash the Chiefs made was followed by months of head-shaking and hand-wringing as the high-dollar player struggled to even stay on the field, let alone be the dominant player we all expected.
Your “GO GET HIM” is totally understandable, but to contend long-term, the key is to cut down the frequency of those guys you “HAVE TO GO GET.” The key is to consistency get more value for the moves you make, in comparison with teams who do the kinds of obvious things most fans seem to want to see, but totally miss the more subtle things that Pioli does.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
do you know about the reply button?
The only players I hurt with my words are the ones who have an inflated opinion of their ability. I can't worry about that.
Bill Parcells
Knowledge is confidence. And confidence lets you play fast.
Bill Parcells
Fired
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 18, 2009 4:09 PM CST up reply actions
Not cheap??
Why do you think Jared Allen is in Minn?…they could not come to terms on an extension and the best Carl could get in the end was a couple draft picks…..How many first round draft picks have held out?…Larry Johnson in his prime…held out. Carl only wanted to bring in guys on their last legs. Old veterans with one or two good yrs left in them.
Im agreeing with some of your points but im not looking for this team to go out and be reckless and throw money at the first big name that hit FA…..I just want good solid moves made and if you have to spend a little extra for it to keep him from going somewhere else…..then do it if it makes sense.
Very sensible.
if you have to spend a little extra for it to keep him from going somewhere else…..then do it if it makes sense.
If you’re making good, solid moves, you’re not going to put yourself in a lot of these situations. The tough part is resisting the clamor for apparent easy fixes that store up trouble for you.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
jared allen would never have signed an extension so long as carl peterson was here.
not because peterson was cheap but because allen felt he was lied to by peterson. larry johnson was under contract and instead of paying him big money, he should have accepted the trade the packers were offering for him. and by the way, when i said if that’s your thing, i wasn’t specifically referring to you. i mean anyone who jumps on and off the chiefs bandwagon. i don’t begrudge people for doing it but i will never do it.
The only players I hurt with my words are the ones who have an inflated opinion of their ability. I can't worry about that.
Bill Parcells
Knowledge is confidence. And confidence lets you play fast.
Bill Parcells
i will never jump off the Chiefs bandwagon....
But I will jump off the Pioli/Haley bandwagon if thy cannot show me better results next yr.
My point is this...
next yr is the yr to spend some money, get some good PROVEN talent on the roster. Once you have those players and a solid foundation then the decisions become easier. You can add talent as you go, backups, draft the best possible player and not a NEED player. Bring guys along slowly to replace players that are leaving or getting too old. Instead of throwing them into the fire before they re ready.
I want to be considered a contender at the end of the yr. A team that people dont want to face down the stretch. I had hopes for that this yr. Maybe not actually making the playoffs, but a team showing marked improvement,like washington, at this point in the season. It seems we are going backwards after the last three games. I cant stand to be picked last in the division, losing to the Raiders, or it being considered a fluke when we DO win a game.
i hear you
i’m just saying not to let your wants interfere with reality. the chiefs should be improved next year but i doubt they will be contenders yet. winning 7 or 8 games is considerable improvement
The only players I hurt with my words are the ones who have an inflated opinion of their ability. I can't worry about that.
Bill Parcells
Knowledge is confidence. And confidence lets you play fast.
Bill Parcells
KCinAZ -sounds as if you want to stock up with vets and then draft ...
and that’s not the way to do things … you draft draft draft young players and THEN pass along information
build FROM the draft and THEN ass FA’s
note to hrmills: always start with the line … in our case, the O-Line
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
So....build with unproven players...hmmm
we have plenty of young players here already from drafting the last few yrs with Herm and this yrs draft class…..We need some veteran leadership and guys that can come in, set an example, and play on day one….Brian Waters isnt it for the O and Vrable brings leadership but cannot back it up with his play anymore at his age…..
I hope they address the O line in FA…that way our 60 million dollar QB does not end up with a serious injury from being protected by a bunch of first and second yr players.Or at least not as likely. If u bring in FA first, it allows you the luxury of grooming rookies the right way…unless they are just lights out players.ight now…we have too many YOUNG players that re just not very good.Period
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