Which Chiefs Players Still Pass Even If They're Failing?
by Matt Conner on Dec 15, 2009 11:58 AM CST
in 2009 Kansas City Chiefs Campaign
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PrintWith so much talk about this present season being a tryout year of sorts for both our coaches and our players, we've surmised as to how many of our players fare in this current year both good and. Speculation runs rampant on who will end up staying, having impressed the coaches and front office. Equally as much, we bring up those players who are disappointing in the first year under Todd Haley and how they will likely be bounced from the organization in a continual purge of Carl Peterson's players.
Yet many in the NFL take more than one or even two or three seasons to blossom and we've seen some former Chiefs go on to solid returns for other ballclubs after they'd been deemed replaceable here in Kansas City. It's because of this that I believe we will still see some disappointing players returning next year. The question is this: who are they?
So therein lies the question for all of you to consider and answer: what players currently on our roster deserve to stay even with lackluster results so far? Does anyone in particular deserve another chance next year to continue to develop their craft? We'd love to hear your answers and why.
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McGraw
Chambers, Sippio Wade, Ron Edwards (depth), Ndukwe, O’ Callaghan… Cottam probably.
If you only knew...
I know people were calling for heads before the season...
But McGraw and Copper are ST studs.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Dec 15, 2009 4:15 PM CST up reply actions
Brandon Carr
And I’ll be the first to admit I’ve been calling for his head for a while now. I saw enough in his effort this past Sunday to want to see him hang around. Maybe some of his issue is he is playing out of place. I’d like to see him get a look at safety…….
Not so much cut
but earlier in the year I really thought we would be desperate to find a replacement for him next year. I do think we should seek another CB, but I’d be fine with upgrading the safety positions and rolling with Carr next season. Or seeing what he could do at safety…….
by Hail2DaChiefs on Dec 15, 2009 3:22 PM CST up reply actions
No one goes unless they are replaced by someone better.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Dec 15, 2009 12:15 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
exactly
I like the simplified message there!
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
I agree
Rec’d
Simple, to the point, and most often ignored once free agency starts and the draft approaches.
low blow :)
but, seriously, Pollard was cut for a reason.
I think that Pioli and Haley have eliminated all of the guys they see as a “problem”… so it is likely that many will stick around unless a clearly better player is brought in
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Wade needs to go for the same reason
He acts like he isnt responsible for his own poor play. He may have been a leading receiver for the vikes, and yes he came right in and had a few games, but what i have seen from him the last few games makes me think he is a goner.
mcgraw-great special teamer….but not a starter
brandon carr- deffinatly should stay…….he can only get better with good safeties
DJ- dudes a beast when he gets on the field…….i think he hell of alot more productive than mays and demorio…..yeh the tackle category wont indicate it but he couldnt get on the field
waters-should not be traded or let go…….weve seen he is a great lg with others around him
No one ever gives McGraw any love...
He is one of the most consistent tacklers on this team, especially at safety…YET he gets no love at the position. I don’t get it. Fans would rather have the occasional big play to go along with poor tackling and inconsistency at responsibilities over a guy that is consistent but solid.
He's one of my favorite players
to watch……..good tackling, just mediocre skills in coverage. That’s good for now, but hopefully only merits special teams in the near future (next year).
by Hail2DaChiefs on Dec 15, 2009 3:31 PM CST up reply actions
Against the run...
He’s Polamalu-esque flying to the ball and sure tackles. In coverage, well…ya….different story.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Dec 15, 2009 4:17 PM CST up reply actions
Offense:
Cassell, Charles, Bowe, Chambers, Long, Albert, Waters, O’Callaghan, (reserves): W.Smith, Cottam
Defense:
Dorsey, Jackson, Hali, Studebaker, Belcher, Willams, Page, Flowers, Carr
Special Teams (specialists):
Colquitt, Succop, McGraw
Virtus In Arduo
Copper
Has also done well on special teams. Really our entire special teams has done quite well. There has been only three or four legitimate run backs(both kick and punt) all year and no TDs. I’d say that is stellar particularly for punting because we do it all the time.
Check out my blog on software development:
http://www.turnleafdesign.com/
by Scaryclouds on Dec 15, 2009 2:31 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Mays
is it me? or isn't about time the Lamar Hunt trophy belonged to His team?
This Chiefs team is closer to a new expansion team than it is a playoff contender, your expectations should match that.
Well I feel that Chris and Joel Thurman will probably be back next year...and then..umm.
probably Patrick Allen; my boys Upamtn and Matt Grbac…I’ll of course be banned long before then..umm so that leaves Sea of Red…Hmills Craig in Calgary..RDo (with a lower case o) Bewsaf (the avatar not the actor), you have to bring back Satchmo and Matt Conner..Yoon umm let’s see well Woodman got locked in the restrooms and never left.
and our token kool aid salesman…your favorite and mine….“PORK CHOP”!! Because he just sounds delicious doesn’t he?
Allright then AP, I love you all but it’s been no bed of roses, no pleasure cruise…I umm well I guess I consider it a challenge and well…you know the rest my friends!
Man I'm sorry TT...that was shitty of me...
you know better than that my friend…that was a complete mistake on my part!
no my friend...I am not feeling well enough to travel just yet
I don’t want my first trip to be limited by being ill. I had (colon) surgery. So I wouldn’t be able to walk too much and that would suck. I want to run around and meet everyone and tour the stadium…so I’m going to have to wait a bit longer.
It’ll be worth it though. This way I can plan a big huge AP party so that others from out of state can plan to come ot
sounds good man let me know
I know Im going to deff try to be at the Arizona and the 49ers games next year, And btw get feeling better sir
let's see
Bernard Pollard… oh wait…
Carr/Flowers – They show flashes of greatness and I think will become more dominant next year.
Hali – For his first year as an OLB, I think he’s done a great job
Vrabel – he’s been an asset and we need to keep him around to mentor our LBs as long as possible
Charles – he can carry our running game next year… we have other deficiencies to take care of
Albert/Waters – don’t waste picks or free agent money trying to replace these guys. That’s stupid. Find a more talented C, RG, and RT.
Bowe/Chambers – There may be better receivers out there and we should find them.
Cassel – He’s no Brees, but he’d be fine if the sack levels went down and our receivers were more consistent.
My Picks
Donald Washington — back with a vengeance next year.
Alex McGee — competing for a starting role.
Brad Cottam — meh, he’ll squeak in under the wire because he’s a company guy.
Colin Brown — he should step up
Wade Smith — he’s not been great, but versatile and works hard.
Ryan O’Callaghan — I just think we need an irish guy on the team & Sean Ryan is out of here.
I like it
lots of “long shots” there
Smith should be back as a reserve, and O’Call could surely retain the starting job.
I still like the potential in Washington and Magee, along with Brown
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
I actually think that Wade Smith is the most likely guy to return on the O line
His versatility and improving play gives him enormous value to this team.
-"A man may be a fool and not know it, but not if he is married." - H.L. Mencken
i truly believe
That most of our starters will be back for next season…as back ups. For example, if we get wilfork, a free agent lb, draft eric berry and 2 o-lineman in the 2nd round, those new players become our new starters and those that were replaced now become much needed depth. So I believe our current backups will be the ones cut/waived next year. Imagine, ron edwards, mike brown, cory mays, wr wade, rg wade and rudy as backups! I’m soooo looking forward to the off – season!
Mr J
KC Chiefs Fan
by Mr J on Dec 15, 2009 12:57 PM CST via mobile reply actions
good points
depth would be a nice problem to have…
IF the Chiefs can upgrade the “top” of the roster, while moving the current “top” to the middle, the current “middle” to the bottom, and the current “bottom” to the unemployment line
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Tomahawk, Tomahawk Tomahawk Tomahawk tomahawk (with or without the upper case)
Tomahawk did I mention Tomahawk??? Sorry TT
Offense
Staying
Albert, a solid young O-Linemen, that’s been progressing week in and week out in the zone blocking scheme.
Alleman, he’ll at least make it to the pre-season, Pioli paid for him they’re not just going to throw him away.
Cassel – Pioli’s sacred Cow
Castille – One of Haley’s guys, with more beef on the line he’ll be more effective.
Chambers, If Pioli can’t lock him up for the next 2 yrs he’ll pull either the franchise tag or one of the 2 transition tags
Charles- he is our offense
Copper – Special Teams
Cottam – Growing as a blocker, maybe they’ll get his pass catching and route running down and he will take that starting spot at TE
Guitierrez – another Pioli guy
Lawrence – Haley and Pioli drafted him and are trying to make him into a returner
NDukwe – he’s either a back-up tackle or our RG next year
Niswanger – I hate to say it but Haley likes him for some unknown reason
O’Callaghan – He’s shown he belongs, even if we bring in a young tackle in the draft
O’Connell – another draft pick
Pope – Haley’s guy
B. Richardson – Showed promise at LT when he stepped in for Wade Smith
Savage – Shown flashes he’ll be back
W. Smith – Plays too many positions, great depth, just not a starting option
J. Williams – another draft pick by pioli
Colin Brown – He’ll fit into the fight for RG next year
Battle – special teams
Porter
Harris
Moore
Bowe – enough said
Going
Bradley, he’s made some key drops, he’s a less talented version of Bowe
Cox – We’ll find a replacement for him, either a FA or a UDFA
Croyle – We can’t have competition at the QB position
Ryan – backing up Cottam and Pope, not a good position to be in
Wade – Blowing up at Haley, dropping passes, apparently not a Cassel fan
Waters – Still has some trade value, at the end of his Career, he’s gone
Kolby Smith – This injury puts him out of KC, and probably the NFL
Goff – he’s outta here
Darling – No better than what we’re fielding right now
Defense
Staying
Leggett – Haley loves this guy
Page – Haley likes him too
Bates
Lokey
Price
Greenwood
Belcher
M. Brown – He’s going on both lists, on the bubble
Carr
Dorsey
Edwards
Flowers
Gilberry
Hali
Jackson
MaGee
Mays
McGraw
Morgan
Studebaker
Vrabel
D. Washington
D. Williams
Gone
Dacus – what’s he shown us?
M. Brown – on the bubble
Daniels
Gales
Herron
D. Johnson
Richardson
Rogers
Walters
Specialists All stay
Colquitt
Succop
Gafford
Okay first of all...that's WAY too much information...
secondly, I cannot spell your name…
Please remove your comment and stand in the corner until recess is over.
Sorry
I did get lazy on the defense and my reasons
by mcclanahanman on Dec 15, 2009 1:08 PM CST up reply actions
I forgot Long
but we all know he’s staying Haley likes him too much
by mcclanahanman on Dec 15, 2009 1:11 PM CST up reply actions
good and thorough!
I agree with most of your analysis there… I’d take a trade for Waters, as long as it’s good value, but I wouldn’t mind seeing him stay at least one more year, while the replacement is groomed
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Sacred cows (Cassell)----
should be served up for dinner in a poverty stricken country or on a poverty stricken team.
Whoa...
There is no way we’re paying Chambers the average of the top 5 receivers salary by putting the franchise tag on him. No chance in hell. If we want to keep him, we’re his best option for playing time and money.
I'm officially on the 'Draft Eric Berry' train.
Haley-Crennel 2010.
by scottbwalters on Dec 16, 2009 1:38 AM CST up reply actions
more long shots
- Quinten Lawrence / Lance Long (at least one of them learns how to return punts or kicks, and make plays in the passing game)
- Colin Brown (comes back from IR, competes to start at RG or RT)
- Donald Washington (raw ability starts to mature by the end of next season, handles the nickle job)
- Jake O’Connell ( I have no idea what he can do, he hasn’t shown it yet… but they traded into the draft for him for a reason… hopefully we see something in 2010)
- Ike Ndukwe (starts at RG)
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Sad list
Offense
Starters:Cassel, Charles, Bowe, Chambers, Albert, Waters, O’Callaghan
Backups: Niswanger, Smith, Brown, Pope, Castille, Lawrence
Defense
Starters: Jackson, Dorsey, Hali, Williams, Flowers, Carr
Backups: Edwards, Vrabel, Mays, Mcgraw, Gilberry, Studebaker, Belcher, Washington, Morgan, McGee, Page
ST
Colquitt/Succop of course
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 15, 2009 1:52 PM CST reply actions
Wow
They will have a busy offseason if you are right. Where are the rest of the starters comming from?
"let's take it one play at a time"
It's not a prediction
The posts asks who deserves to stay. Sadly, That’s the list of NFL quality players as I see it. To be honest, I may have been overly generous with Niswanger, Brown and Lawrence. I guess we could keep Leggett too. Versitile and all. Copper as a ST player…
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 15, 2009 3:42 PM CST up reply actions
OK
I generally agree with your list. With the mindset of building through the draft and adding only a few key free agent veterens, I can’t see us adding that many NFL quality players before 2010. The key to a better record will be developing our young players. We need Magee, Washington, Lawerence, O’ Connoll, Brown, Jackson and these kind of guys to become big time players. We have not seen much progress of that yet in my view. If they cannot develop their own draft picks it will be a very long time before we win again given the stategy they are using. Their success is dependant upon building up players…..we need to see more of that or it will be blackout city from Arrowhead.
"let's take it one play at a time"
Totally agree
I put up a post today comparing Herm’s drafting to Pioli’s. An interesting offshoot of looking at all of those players and how the Patriots became…well..the Patriots is that I got my first real understanding of what made them special.
They didn’t have one amazing draft after another. They were just very very consistent. They basically added 2 starter quality players every single draft. One year it was only 1 starter…another it was 3. But basically 2 evry freaking year. Of those starters, roughly half of them have made pro bowls at some point in their career.
In those drafts, they also added 2-3 backup quality players every year. Nothing fancy. Just constantly refilling the glass. Sometimes they trade draft picks to get starters. Sometimes they trade starters to get draft picks. But 2-3 new guys in teh starting lineup every year and 2-3 new guys on the bench.
When I look at the offseason this year, it looks like business as usual. Add a couple of starters (Jackson and Cassel). Add a couple of backups (McGee, Washinton and either Brown or Lawrence) Trade a starter (Tony G) for a draft pick. Pick up extra picks by dumping players who don’t fit into your plans (Thigpen and Tyler)
When you take the talent we had when they arrived. (There wasn’t much but there is some) Have 3 consistent offseasons and all of a sudden you have a roster full of guys you can win with. Then the only question becomes are Haley/Cassel good enough to take this team to the next level.
People are all freaked out. But from what I can tell, we’re right on track, following the plan.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 15, 2009 4:21 PM CST up reply actions
I agree, but
Will the fans of this town be that patient? Cassel was almost booed off the field Sunday and there is a growing concern over everything Haley. Given the nature of the fan base, I think that our own fans might quit on this team before the “patriot way” has a chance to be successful. It will be hard to stick to “the plan” if only 30, 000 are in Arrowhead on Sunday’s and every radiohead is calling out the GM and head coach. Wins fix everything and I think we agree that they will be in short supply for a while.
"let's take it one play at a time"
They have no choice
There is no otehr fix for this team. It’s not like teh city is going to kick them out of town or burn down the stadium. Bad teams draw small crowds. That’s ownership incentive to get better, not panic. Clark isn’t stupid. He interviewed Pioli for weeks. He knew the plan. He knew we weren’t winning anything significant for a couple of years. He could have hired someone making pie in teh sky promises, but he didn’t. He hired the guy pitching the Patriot’s way.
Calrk’s best friend is Robert Kraft’s son. They grew up together. They were both waiting in the wigs to take over their dad’s teams. The Kraft’s told him everything he needed to know about Pioli. He knows what to expect.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 15, 2009 4:36 PM CST up reply actions
I hope you are right,
but Chief fans are tired of losing and losing really hurts our fans. No question that building a business requires exactly the approach you describe; but football is a funny business…….win or get out of town. Let’s hope Todd can figure out a way to steal 7 or 8 wins next year (without naked 4th down bootlegs and botched fake punts).
"let's take it one play at a time"
Offense Depth as of 01/31/2010
Niswanger, Rudy Reserve—need to find a replacement
Smith, Wade Reserve—G,C, T
Alleman, Andy Reserve—G
Waters, Brian Starter—move to RG
Harris, Darryl Practice Squad
Brown, Colin Reserve-RT
Goff, Mike cut
Albert, Branden Starter—move back to left guard
Ndukwe, Ikechuku cut
O’Callaghan, Ryan Starter—RT
Richardson, Barry Practice Squad
Porter, Jermail cut
Cottam, Brad Reserve—Passing
O’Connell, Jake Reserve—Can’t spend another year finding a TE.
Pope, Leonard Reserve—Running
Ryan, Sean cut
Bradley, Mark Reserve- #4 reciever
Chambers, Chris Starter—Need to be pushed to #3 reciever
Copper, Terrance Special teams
Lawrence, Quinten cut
Long, Lance cut
Wade, Bobby Reserve Slot—Needs to be pushed back to #5 reciever
Darling, Devard cut
Bowe, Dwayne Starter—Needs to step up to be #1 reciever
Cassel, Matt Starter
Croyle, Brodie Trade—If your not playing him and he has worth—trade him
Gutierrez, Matt Reserve
Cox, Mike Starter—Needs to better.
Castille, Tim Special teams
Charles, Jamaal Starter—need a 1/2 punch with Charles as one of the 2 RB
Savage, Dantrell Special teams
Williams, Javarris cut
Moore, Kestahn cut
Battle, Jackie Reserve—is he part of the 1/2 punch with Charles.
Smith, Kolby cut
Succop, Ryan Starter
Colquitt, Dustin Starter
Gafford, Thomas Starter
by NFL season ticket holder on Dec 16, 2009 1:57 AM CST reply actions
Defense Depth as 01/31/2010
Dorsey, Glenn Starter—DE
Gales, Dion Practice squad
Gilberry, Wallace Reserve—DE
Jackson, Tyson Starter—DE
Magee, Alex Reserve-DE, DT
Greenwood, Bobby Practice squad
Edwards, Ron Reserve—NT needs to find run stuffer at NT.
Lokey, Derek cut
Belcher, Jovan Starter—ILB
Hali, Tamba Starter—OLB
Herron, David cut
Johnson, Derrick Special teams Reserve—OLB
Mays, Corey Special teams Reserve—ILB
Rogers, Justin cut
Studebaker, Andy Special teams Reserve—OLB
Vrabel, Mike Starter—OLB
Walters, Pierre cut
Williams, Demorrio Special teams Reserve—ILB
Dacus, Weston cut
Carr, Brandon Starter
Daniels, Travis cut
Flowers, Brandon Starter
Richardson, Mike cut
Washington, Donald Special teams Reserve CB-CB
Bates, Jackie cut
Leggett, Maurice Special teams Nickel
Brown, Mike cut
McGraw, Jon Reserve—SS
Morgan, DaJuan cut
Price, Ricky cut
Page, Jarrad Starter—SS
by NFL season ticket holder on Dec 16, 2009 2:16 AM CST reply actions
I think you have to bring back approx 35 players from the current roster.
And look at bringing in approx 15- 18 new players. You have to be careful because depth is just as important as those starting.
If we can find a new starting LT, (free agent), C (draft), and 2 new WRs (1 draft and 1 free agent) and RB (draft) help on offense and push those here into reserve role we will have a good offense core to build from.
I feel we need a new starting run stuffing NT (trade up for #1 pick) new run stuffing ILB (free agent), and 2 new safeties (1 free agent, 1 draft) and better CB depth we will improve ourselves into a 8-8 or better team.
I think Haley has weeded out a lot of bad apples but was left with a dozen and half that still needs to be replaced. I think we have good players that can be great depth if we play our cards right.
by NFL season ticket holder on Dec 16, 2009 2:34 AM CST reply actions
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