Cement Trucks and Cranes

I find “foundation” to be a horrible analogy:

“if a new team is brought in they are going to have their own plans and they are going to rip out this foundation”

What foundation? We have like 4 guys we’re sure can play championship level football. We have maybe 4-5 more with think can play at that level. And a handful more that we’re hopeful about.

Man that’s not a foundation. that’s more like crime-scene tape. It’s just like when we had people around here all freaked out about getting rid of Pollard, Turk and Tank.

“OMG They’re getting rid of our CORE players!!!!!!!!”

I saw this written here a bunch of times. Core players? Really? We had a core? How can anyone get mad about getting rid of core players from a dismal failure of a team.

With that said, I think it would be a mistake to get rid of Haley/Pioli. It’s impossible for any plan to work if the plan is always changing.

And I agree with your assessment. Wrecked, with a couple of caveats:

Matt Cassel MUST get some coaching this year. He can be taught to throw the deep ball. He was on target yesterday, with a couple of notable exceptions. Get each WR that figures to be on our team a JUGGS machine for Christmas. Then make both of them practice. A lot.

and cant wait to be at the village pour house this weekend for the browns beatdown!

Its ludicrous to have thought this team was going anywhere this season. They changed from the top down after a pretty large destruction, so a year was basically lost.

Different GM’s are going to have different philosophies of how they want to build their teams (mostly anyway), and they bring in people who are best suited to see out how they want their visions executed on the field on Sundays. I think a large problem with CP and Herm was that they didn’t envision the same type of team here in KC, and their philosophies didn’t mesh. Sad to say buy if one of them could have acquiesced the other I don’t think we would be in this big of a mess right now.

Long post short, you can’t build a team overnight… a good example of that is the Texans. I don’t like the losing anymore than anyone else, it’s completely demoralizing as a fan and I can’t even begin to imagine how it’s affecting the coaches and players, but it’s part of it. Their character will have to become hardened to overcome these losses and triumph into the future… and if they don’t or they can’t do that, someone will be waiting to take their place who will.

PA…you absolutley write some of the best Posts ever. That is not only a super title…but the intro pre jump is fantastic. If I could rec you twice I would…EVERYONE NEEDS TO REC THIS POST PLS!!

Great job PA!! Your one of the only people I can completely disagree with (not that I am now) and still love your posts. Always a cool perspective.

Well stated. It sure gets frustrating even for those of us who are the most patient to have to endure the endless losing.

I think I like my “baking a cake” analogy better…

Cake>Construction. LOL

It’s all about time. This stuff takes time. We have the potential with money and draft picks to have THE best offseason in Chiefs history! If so next year could look verrrrry good!

no, seriously though, great post. it’s funny what happens when you put all this into context, eh?

funny, that it seems like all the posts i see these days are negative, and that people just want something fixed NOW. however, there’s a pretty large (at least as of right now) difference between the voters here. where are all the ‘pull cassel’ guys? the ‘fire haley’ guys? the ‘egoli’ guys?

they must not show up unless there’s a construction project or mock draft to talk about ;)

All that without even mentioning two corner backs who are only in their second year and one of them is probably a top 5 CB in the league as well as a ST unit that went from bottom 5 in the league in coverage to top 5 which is more important then some people notice.

I’m SO tired of hearing people say they want to scrap this and that and start over. We have to build upward. I’m all for talking about what needs to be added to this team, but it seems all some can think / talk about is what they think we should subtract. I think the best analogy I can come up with is this.

We don’t need to throw this puzzle away and start a new one, we just need the patience to find some more of the pieces that are missing from this one.

Thanks Paddy! Rec’d!

I usually look for that from KCporkchop. Nice read tho.

(I love your commercials btw) PA is using logic and reason again. I have written to the management team to have him drawn and quartered. Christoff has watery eyes and Porkchop has a new ally (god help us lol).

You got me 2 play nice and jmcgoblue hasn’t come in here and harrassed me yet so these are all good things.

I don’t know what I want anymore here in KC. I just want to win. I don’t want to pull the plug on Haley too soon. He’ll end up going elsewhere and learning from his mistakes and being a Hoodie Jr. Then I will hang myself.

I don’t want to cut Cassel I just want some serious competition at the position. And if your going to make me drink that dam kool aid at least put some vodka in it PA…or Pork chop one of ya!

Patrick has made some great comments here.

Yes… Chiefs fans wanted the change. But I suspect a very large number of them expected instant success – which wasn’t even close to reasonable.

When Pioli and Haley were first hired, I thought we might win 6 or 8 games this season. After all, despite last year’s incredibly poor record, the Chiefs were in quite a few of those games to the very end. But when Gailey was fired, I finally predicted 4-12 – and i wouldn’t have been at all surprised if the Chiefs had finished the season with the same record as last year. Even if they win another game or two, the Chiefs are one blowout away – and with games in Denver and Cincinatti remaining on the schedule, this is a real possibility – from setting a new franchise record for point differential, which ought to give you a pretty good idea of how bad this season really is.

While I have often criticized Pioli and Haley – the latter in no uncertain terms this particular week – I do recognize that a) what they are attempting to accomplish is going to take some time, and b) that they are going to get that time. Even if the Chiefs finish 3-13 – which is, unfortunately, still quite possible – I fully expect Haley to return next season, and I will welcome him. Giving him his walking papers now would be the absolute worst move the Chiefs could make at this time.

However… none of this means P&H are immune from criticism.

This argument is so old. This was the excuse through the Herm Edwards era and is now being used to cover Pioli’s shortcoming’s. We get to chose from the same pool of FA’s and draft class that the other 31 teams get to. At what point will this excuse no longer be a cop out? All the talent we we’re told was the future of this organization have been salvaged for parts or picks.

Buffalo proved yesterday you can win in this league without a starter for a QB. Their roster isn’t any more talented than ours and their coaching staff is in more dissarray than our’s – but they still pulled out the “W”. Pioli’s epic mistake was letting his rookie HC call the shots like he’s freakin’ Mike Shananhan. His claim to fame was turning wide receivers into greatness but even in his own area of expertise he’s been a failure. Pioli came in here stuffing a winning culture down our throat but he knew very well that he was mailing this season in. There’s no reason as fans we shouldn’t do the same.

The franchise has needed a wake up call for years. The time is now, however painful it might be.
From Stram’s glory days to Marty Ball smash mouth football we old timer fans have been through it all. I’m with Patrick all the way. We have the footers &basement in place. The coming years we will see a strong building floor by floor. Clark Hunt is filling some mighty big shoes & I have no doubt that Lamar picked wisely & carefully.
All dynasties have to start sometime. 2009 is year one….
Go Chiefs

i do not mean to be neativce nancy lol great post paddy but as long as san dideo has phillp playing in his prime and yes den is a not a super bowl team but they are 9-7 10-6 type most every year it will be hard for kc to win on a conistest basis unless they upgrade everywhere and no offetse to matt c but he is not the answer long term but in his defense even peyton wouild be 8-8 with u

its a must win for u this week if u lose this week i feel the season will be a faulie because at the bare min u want to complate in games because u won 2 in 08 3 in 07 if u get to 4 u can sell that as improveing

wins 17-14

I’ve been frustrated not only with the team but with many of the post here at AP. I keep trying to remind people that the Chiefs are much closer to a new expansion team than they are a contender. Every week I see post after post calling for someone’s head, and I wonder do they ever want the re-building to stop? It was 1 year ago today Today mind you, that Peterson stepped down, 1 year. Did they really expect the Chiefs to become a playoff team with little talent and a whole new Offense, Defense, and special teams? Did they think hat some magic would happen and suddenly the players that were not playing well would become pro bowlers? Yes, we have shown some signs of improving and we still have a very long way to go and the players we like right now may be gone soon, because while they are good right now, there maybe someone better that can be brought in. The whole season seems to be just like the Pollard release, many didn’t like it even though it may have been a good move for both the team and him. It became the focus for many to blame the new leadership of not knowing what they are doing. But come on have they really given them a chance.

It takes time to build a team that can sustain winning, most over night success stories are just that a one season wonder. We have to look for a long term solution and a long term plan to winning and changing everything now would only bring us back to the start of yet another long rebuilding process. And I’m sure we don’t need that, we just need to recognize the fact that it’s going to take time and there is no reason to hit the panic button.

What a great way to tie all the different camps together. I dont’ man, this is just a really really well done post. I’d be jealous but I’m not that smart!

I’m kind of dissapointed that you left Flowers out of the foundation analogy.

Then again maybe he belongs in the garden so he makes the front of the building look better… you know…. because of his name.

I think he meant it, and I think he was about one DE and a couple OLs away from his definition of a solid team. He had his starting cover-2 secondary. He had a QB who could survive the season behind a crappy o-line and put up some numbers. He had a QB with a better arm in the wings, for when the o-line improved.

In his cover-2 world, he just needed to throw ‘tweeners at the DE spots, with Tamba and Turk either starting or playing capable back-up, with Dorsey ready to come into his own at DT, and plenty of other guys, like Boone, Edwards and Tyler to duke it out for the other DT spot. It’d look like a fairly deep position group, then…

And I can see why Pioli wanted to blow up the D and switch to 3-4. I didn’t expect it to set ‘em back as far as it did, because I projected Tank Tyler as finally coming into his own, with Edwards behind him. Didn’t expect Edwards to be a so-so starter and Tyler to be gone to a 4-3 team, but that’s how it played out.

Didn’t expect Pollard to fail the attitude test, although I saw early signs in Haley’s “Well, he is pretty loud” in response to “Gee, Pollard’s a vocal leader on the field” remarks by wide-eyed reporters… If Haley had thought Pollard was a vocal leader on the field, he’d’ve agreed with the reporters.

Anyhoo, the things that went bad made it worse than a reasonable person might reasonably expect it to be for ‘09. Instead of adding LB, RB, and WR as finishing touches, they’re still in “Fix OL, finish fixing DL, fix DB” mode. But at least we’re confident that NT will finish up the DL, for years to come, and they’re not having to roll the dice on a great edge rush prospect, trying to ADD weight to his frame, and HOPE he takes well to the change…

I miss Turtles and all the other arcane things that popped out of his head.