The Blame Rests on Haley
by RDOGuy on Dec 14, 2009 5:39 AM CST
149 comments
From the FanPosts. -Chris
From the beginning of the season, optimistic Chiefs fans looked to the Week 14 game against the Buffalo Bills at Arrowhead Stadium as winnable - if not an outright shoo-in.
Even though the Bills arrived in Kansas City with a record only one game better than the Chiefs, half of their losses were by a total of 10 points - while the Chiefs had lost their two previous games by a total of 60 points!
Despite this, three of four respondents in the AP prediction poll for the game believed the Chiefs would win.
So it's no surprise that so much anger is being expressed over this loss. Simply put… it sucks to be wrong.
And if you're blaming this loss on Matt Cassel - or Chris Chambers - I'm not going to make it any easier for you. Because I think you're wrong about that, too.
Make no mistake: Matt Cassel didn't play very well on Sunday. Four interceptions - two of them very bad decisions by the 63 Million Dollar Man - gave him a truly awful quarterback rating of 35.4. But hidden in that number is the fact that Matt Cassel completed 60% of his passes for 224 yards. He started the game completing seven of eight.
Nor should we excuse Chambers' dropped pass in the fourth quarter. It was a ball he should have caught, and it could have made the difference in the game.
But in the final analysis, the Chiefs lost this game because of their head coach.
Item: with no score in the game, the Chiefs faced fourth and 11 at the Buffalo 35 with 7:16 left in the first quarter. Rather than try a 52 yard field goal with Mr. Not So Irrelevant, they punted.
Item: a few minutes later in the first quarter - still with no score in the game - the Chiefs faced a fourth and 1 at the Buffalo 1. Rather than have Mr. Not So Irrelevant put through a chip shot, they called a time out, and then called a misdirection roll out keeper for Cassel - with two linemen reporting eligible - that the Bills sniffed out and crushed.
Item: facing a fourth and 9 at the Buffalo 37 - trailing just 7-3 with 9:36 left in the half - Mr. Not So Irrelevant sat out a chance to try a 54 yarder. And the Chiefs punted.
Now… I understand perfectly well that 50+ field goal tries on natural turf in December are a bit chancy - even with Mr. Not So Irrelevant lining up to try them.
But after the game, when the Star's Randy Covitz asked Todd Haley to explain the reasoning behind these three decisions, did Haley say that pregame warm-ups had shown Succup couldn't make a 50+ field goal in the existing conditions - which would have been a perfectly reasonable explanation?
No.
Haley explained the punts by saying that he thought it "was a field position game," and that he believed in Dustin Colquitt's ability to pin the Bills back.
But it was his explanation of the second one - the fourth and 1 at the 1 - that really shook me. Haley said, "As the head coach you've got to make some of those decisions early in the game. Just outside the one yard line it was a great opportunity for us to make a statement."
Excuse me?
Please allow me to explain something, Coach. Your job isn't to make "statements." I was under the impression you already knew this, because you have repeatedly described your job in much different terms. Surely, Coach Haley, you'll recall telling us that your job is to win football games?
And when you leave points on the field - particularly against a team that has scored only nine points more than your woebegone squad during thirteen games this season - you have hurt your team's chance to win. Period.
Besides… if fourth and 1 at the Buffalo 1 was the time to make a "statement," then why wasn't your later fourth and 1 at the Bills 3 a good time to make a "statement," too? Otherwise, it is beyond my understanding why, at that point, you sent Succop on to the field to kick his first field goal of the game.
I'm not even going to go into the fact that the Chiefs completely wasted two timeouts in the first half. Apparently the first was used to decide on the tricky play that didn't fool the Bills for one second. The other one was blown on a hopeless effort to get the referees to move the ball a full yard further downfield.
But hey… let's just forget about what the Chiefs might have been able to do with those two timeouts when they got the ball back just before the half… like maybe get close enough for Succop to kick a field goal.
Because, you see… it isn't about winning the game. It's about making "statements."
Unfortunately, I'm now starting to believe Haley's mania about making these "statements" goes much deeper. He repeatedly writes checks that Matt Cassel and his receivers simply can't cash.
It's hardly a secret, you know, that Matt Cassel's biggest weakness in New England - even with top flight receivers like Randy Moss - was the long ball. He's done nothing in Kansas City to disprove that impression.
Let's be realistic: Matt Cassel is no Peyton Manning, Drew Brees or Tom Brady. But that's OK, because he doesn't need to be. In truth, he's really a lot more like Joe Montana - a guy who can keep the team moving down the field, and can come up with big plays late in the game - that is, IF the head coach is smart enough to play to his strengths, instead of his weaknesses.
And you know something? Even with Willie Davis and Derrick Walker instead of Jerry Rice and John Taylor, that Montana guy was pretty darned good.
Yet on second and 3 at the Bills 37 - rather than call a running play or two with his shiny new weapon Jamaal Charles to get a first down - Haley called a deep ball to Bradley that went incomplete. And the Chiefs ended up punting. Then, after getting the ball at his own 41 after a missed field goal, Haley immediately called a deep route to Chambers that went incomplete… rather than simply start moving the ball down the field. On that drive, Cassel was intercepted on the ensuing third and 3.
I could go on… but I think you get the idea.
It's pretty simple, really. Todd Haley is so busy trying to prove that he's an offensive genius - and that Scott Pioli made the right decision to give Matt Cassel a big contract - that he seems to have forgotten that his job is to win football games.
So if you like, you can blame Matt Cassel and Chris Chambers for this loss. Lord knows that if Cassel had played a little better - or if Chambers could have caught that ball at the end - the Chiefs could have won this game.
But this game was really lost because their head coach was too focused on making big "statement" plays, instead of taking care of the business at hand: winning today's game.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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I don't understand
Why are people so quick to throw Haley under the bus to make excuses for Cassel’s horrible play? I agreed with the gameplan and if Cassel would have been able to make a couple more throws, the game would have been a cakewalk.
Haley needs an OC, but I don’t think the play calling or game management was that bad today. Again, if Cassel hits Bradley on one of his overthrows, doesn’t throw those terrible interceptions, we’d all be singing Haley’s praises. He can get a team prepared and make all the best playcalls, but unless you have a QB to deliver the ball where it needs to go, its all for naught. Can you imagine trying to create a gameplan for a QB who more times than not, makes either a bad decision or a bad throw?
Again, its been a shitty year, but for some reason its more envogue to piss all over Haley and give Cassel a free ride. In no way am I an annoying Brodie Croyle fan, I just am becoming less and less of a Cassel fan every passing week
Johnnie Morton: The Man. The Myth. The Legend.
by craig in calgary on Dec 13, 2009 11:54 PM CST reply actions
Just reread this paragraph
Yet on second and 3 at the Bills 37 – rather than call a running play or two with his shiny new weapon Jamaal Charles to get a first down – Haley called a deep ball to Bradley that went incomplete. And the Chiefs ended up punting. Then, after getting the ball at his own 41 after a missed field goal, Haley immediately called a deep route to Chambers that went incomplete… rather than simply start moving the ball down the field. On that drive, Cassel was intercepted on the ensuing third and 3.
You blame Haley, but to me those are all Cassel f***-ups. That should have been a TD to Bradley. I admitadly don’t remember the Chambers deep route and and remember which of the 4 intereceptions you allude to, but again, this is on Cassel’s inability to make the plays that Haley called…not on the actual playcalls
Johnnie Morton: The Man. The Myth. The Legend.
by craig in calgary on Dec 14, 2009 12:01 AM CST up reply actions
Ahh... but that's exactly my point, Craig.
I am saying that Haley is not recognizing the truth about Matt Cassel – that he has limitations. Joe Montana couldn’t throw a deep ball worth a whit, either – but the Chiefs went to the AFC Championship team with him under center… and without top-tier receivers.
I am not excusing Cassel’s errors. I am saying that he is like most other quarterbacks: there are some things he does well, and other things he doesn’t do well. I am saying that Haley should design his offense – and his playcalling – to make use of those strengths, and underplay those weaknesses.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
I just don't like the argument that the playcalls were no good because they didn't work
Based on the down and distance I liked the Bradley overthrow play calls.. He puts a little more air under the ball, the reciever has more time to make adjustments to the ball.
Yes he has limitations, but to say no not throw the ball downfield will just result in a even more stacked box.
I don’t know anymore, I’m tired and grouchy and have marinara sauce on my Cassel Jersey.
Johnnie Morton: The Man. The Myth. The Legend.
by craig in calgary on Dec 14, 2009 12:14 AM CST up reply actions
I would rather a QB overthrow a deep pass than underthrow it and get an INT
That is how QBs are tought. I am sure Cassel has been told this a hundred times. The accuracy on the deep balls will come with timing and familiarity with the receivers. Look at our active WR corps and how many have been on the roster since training camp? Bowe, Bradley, and Lawrence? The rest haven’t been around. The same can be said about the TE position.
I would rather a QB get it right. What happened to that mentality?
Why is everyone in KC ok with OK? Jesus man. It’s not OK to overthrow passes in the end zone. It’s NOT ok. That is what they get paid for. GEEZ man. He needs to throw the ball on target, how bout that one?
One was an overthrow
Bradley F’N fell down on the other.
Both were very close to being caught.
Settle down everyone
"I’d go to battle with him every day of the week." Todd Haley on Matt Cassel
This statement is why I am on the Cassel train, drinkin the Kool-Aid!
Bradley fell on one
The one at the end of game to Cottam was right on target and Cottam was tripped or fell down. That should have been the GW touchdown. Also, a lot of times WR will stop running on really long routes or not run it full-speed, which messes with the timing.
My point is there are a lot of variables that go into an incomplete pass and interceptions. The easiest person to blame is the QB, but it is not always his fault. I would blame Cassel for 2 picks this week – the Byrd INT and the one where he should have thrown it away. The latter was a communication error between him and JC so I have a hard time even pinning that one entirely on Cassel, but he probably should have just thrown it away. The kinks will work themselves out over time with repitition. Keep in mind this is only Cassel’s second season as a starter, the Chiefs WRs lead the league in dropped passes, our O-Line is in shambles, and the WRs we do have haven’t been here for long and are not always on the same page with the QB as a result. I am curious to hear from those blasting Cassel exactly what their expectations for him were coming into the season — I guaruntee you they would be unfair expectations considering the context.
I have never wavered in my confidence in Cassel and I don’t think Haley or Pioli have either. He is a good QB in this league and will be for years to come here in KC.
Whoever expected Cassel to = Joe Montana?
Whoever expected Matt Cassel to equal Joe Montana’s success? There is no basis for comparison other than have played for the Chiefs. This is Cassel’s second year as a starter and the first where he is the #1 QB. Montana came to the Chiefs at the end of his career and he is one of the best quarterbacks in NFL history. I don’t understand your comparison/argument at all.
I also disagree with your closing statement. I think Haley has designed the offense to play to our strengths. We were a pretty vanilla, conservative offense with LJ at RB. Then the Twiiter fiasco went down and in stepped Jamaal Charles. All of a sudden the offense opened up. We started to see more shotgun, more outside runs, more of an offense we expected when Haley came to KC — playing to the speed of Jamaal Charles. Another good example is the inverted Wishbone that Haley installed to get Charles, Cox, and Castille all on the field at once. Another example is the the no-huddle that we have started running on 3rd downs following the success we had out of it late in the Dallas game and others.
by Nick Britt on Dec 14, 2009 12:16 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Nick, I didn't say Cassel is Montana's equal
Instead I said that Cassel is “more like” Montana than he is Manning, Brees or Brady… guys who can hit deep strikes all day long. Especially during the time he played for the Chiefs, Montana could not hit a deep pass to save his life. But even so, he was damned effective. I believe Cassel could be effective, too – if he was used properly.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
We run the same offense that he ran in New England
I would say he was effective there.
If you mean that Cassel isn’t in a position to succeed right now, I would agree with you, but it is not because of a lack of ability on his part or the playcalling or the offensive scheme — it is a lack of a supporting cast. Our O-Line can’t block and our WRs can’t get open. Unless you are Mike Vick against a HS defense, you are up a creek. That is where we are at right now. And that is why next week’s game will be blacked out.
We don't run the same offense as NE, by the way
by Joel Thorman on Dec 14, 2009 5:51 AM CST up reply actions
Same philosophy
Every team changes their offense from week to week to fit their players strengths and the other teams weaknesses.
The EP has become more liberal over the years due to a number of factors to where it is more of a hybrid, but we still call it the EP nonetheless.
Do we have the same playbook as NE? No. Do we still have the same offensive philosophy as NE? Yes. Each coach has their own unique interpretation of an offensive scheme. I wouldn’t call that “not running the same offense”.
Rec
Not the 1st para but the 2nd. I was thinking while watching the game that the hurry up works well for Cassel. Probably because it make the other 10 guys play at Cassel’s speeded up play because of the previous 10 weeks of beatings.
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 14, 2009 4:58 PM CST up reply actions
Montana also had an offensive line
and without Bowe, the receivers don’t really compare either.
Every starting quarterback in the NFL should be expected to make plays down the field. They shouldn’t be expected to make every play, but if you have so little confidence in your quarterback that you won’t even try, then you have no business starting that quarterback.
I understand what you're saying, Bear
but this is exactly what the Chiefs did when Montana was the starter. There basically was no such thing as a deep pass.
What you’re really saying is that if you’re going to run the kind of offense Arizona ran with Todd Haley as OC, you should expect your QB to make plays down the field. All I’m saying is that Todd Haley needs to recognize that he doesn’t yet have what he needs to make that work. Might Cassel get there? Sure – it’s possible. But he – and his receivers – just aren’t there yet. You’ve got to crawl before you can walk, and walk before you can run.
Yes… Montana had a great offensive line. But I disagree that the receivers don’t compare. Who did the Chiefs have as a WR threat? Willie Davis was just about all there was; Birden was at the end of his career. That’s roughly comparable to Bowe and Chambers today. Otherwise it was Marcus Allen and Kimble Anders – in fact, Anders had more catches than anybody else in both ’94 and ’95.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
You are right about Montana not having great receivers
I was just trying to say that several of Cassel’s worst performances came while Bowe was suspended. The Chiefs do lead the league in dropped passes though…
I think that is probably part of the problem. We have players who seem to have the skills to make plays, but continually fail to do so. If our receivers couldn’t get open, we would probably see some change in play calling. Instead, we just have dropped passes. (Cassel obviously makes some bad throws as well).
However, I agree with your main point that Haley needs to adapt his game plan to the players that are actually on the roster.
Annoying Brodie Croyle fan here...j/k
I agree that Haley made some bad calls today but, really, some of the drops today were VERY catchable balls. Moreso than last week, I see this loss falling on the shoulders of the WR corps.
I saw Cassel out there trying to redeem himself for the last 2 weeks and he got absolutely NO help from his WRs.
What drops?
There was the Chambers drop, but name another one?
The recievers did a great job to get open, but they never got the ball.
Bradley could have had a HUGE game if Cassel could throw a deep ball to save his life
Johnnie Morton: The Man. The Myth. The Legend.
by craig in calgary on Dec 14, 2009 12:04 AM CST up reply actions
One was a wrong route by Bradley and the other was overthrown by like 3 yards man...
Don't forget to be an AP-vangelist...Tell A Friend...
what about the pass that beamed Chambers in the hands
and resulted in an INT? also, he only had one interception that was his fault, the other 3 were either at the hands of his WRs or him having to force it late i.e. the hail mary and the 4th and 10. If chambers had caught that strike, we would be talking this over after a victory
chambers dropped another that was picked right off the top of my head
The only players I hurt with my words are the ones who have an inflated opinion of their ability. I can't worry about that.
Bill Parcells
Knowledge is confidence. And confidence lets you play fast.
Bill Parcells
the blame lays on the genius who decided that a young unproven QB was worth guaranteed money ($11M next year IIRC), who decided that QB didn’t need a QB coach, who decided that QB needed for his OC to be his head coach, and who stuffed the Chiefs with more filler than a ballpark hot dog.
Unless there’s something I don’t know about Sleepy Todd’s control over this team, I don’t think he did those things
Ralph Wiggum would be a better GM than Dayton Moore
by BHWick on Dec 14, 2009 12:05 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
that isn't to say that
Sleepy is a good playcaller, he makes Herm look like a genius quite a few times every game.
Ralph Wiggum would be a better GM than Dayton Moore
Cassel played a full year in the NFL as a starter
I’d say that’s proven….so I imagine you’re completely against the entire idea of the NFL draft since players are unproven and get guaranteed money?
by Joel Thorman on Dec 14, 2009 5:53 AM CST up reply actions
Yah he's not a rookie which is why I don't excuse him.
Rookies’ get a free pass. Vets don’t. He has a lot going against him here in KC. But most of his recent blunders are done not under diress but with time to pass and good protection and a solid running game to help him out.
I just can’t keep excusing the guy. It’s his job. Do your JOB is my saying.
you're right
He has a lot going against him here in KC
mainly people who have no idea what it has to be like to play qb for a team with receivers who get suspended, don’t know where to be, drop lots of passes and an offensive line that leaks like a sieve. i’m not an apologist but i think he does get a pass this year because there hasn’t been any continuity from a team perspective
The only players I hurt with my words are the ones who have an inflated opinion of their ability. I can't worry about that.
Bill Parcells
Knowledge is confidence. And confidence lets you play fast.
Bill Parcells
Romo has a defense, a pro bowl kicker, 3 decent RB's, and a great WR corps
When did you form the perception that a QB is totally responsible for his entire teams’ scoring?
Chiefs have 99 Problems and Cassel is ONLY one.
are you comparing tony romo's situation to matt cassel's???
let’s see…jason whitten, patrick crayton, roy williams and miles austin have all been in dallas all season and offseason. in fact, they’ve all been there for at least 2 seasons. dallas also has a pretty consistently good running game with felix jones and marion barber. i’m curious how you can draw parallels between these two guys. i am confident that if you look around the league, you won’t find any other quarterback with as many obstacles to success as matt cassel has in kansas city. i know you don’t like to hear stuff like this but it is true. he still leaves plays out there and i’m not excusing those but how this can be any sort of evaluation for him is ridiculous right now
The only players I hurt with my words are the ones who have an inflated opinion of their ability. I can't worry about that.
Bill Parcells
Knowledge is confidence. And confidence lets you play fast.
Bill Parcells
If Romo was playing for KC right now
He would be HORRIBLE. He takes way too many chances with his passing…and he completely falls apart when he gets pressured.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
This I disagree with
but with time to pass and good protection
Before you overreact, I’m not saying the guy is perfect or that he didn’t have blunders in this or other games. But, your statement is simply not true. He gets killed all the time. Our backs get tackled in the backfield all the time.
BTW, I think that veterans get better and are always learning over time. It’s not like they are rookies this year and then incredible every other year thereafter. Cassel is a vet, yes, but still has a lot to learn and improve upon. I think you expect the guy to be an instant Brees.
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
something must be up with the economics
when a guy who started 15 games (and didn’t go to the playoffs) is a proven NFL QB. It’d be like saying Angel Berroa was a proven MLB player after 2003.
And there’s a difference between NFL draft picks, who have to get guaranteed money. And Matt Cassel, who was not holding out for more money. The Chiefs voluntarily gave him a Brinks truck full of money and that’s their problem.
Ralph Wiggum would be a better GM than Dayton Moore
your playing with words though
The Pats should have made the playoffs with 11 wins. 11 it’s not like cassel led them to a 4-12 record
swish
Bravo
Welcome to Chiefs REBUILD - Version 2.0 /The Clark Hunt Edition
Chiefs will be lucky to go 4-12 in 2010
by KansasCityShuffle on Dec 14, 2009 3:25 PM CST up reply actions
i noticed similar things..
questionable decisions. momentum killers. thought we shoulda run in situations when we passed and then put ourselves in 2nd or 3rd and long. Not saying i’m ready to want haley gone, but last week the fake punt, some of the calls today, and how many times have we gone for it on 4th down this year? with that offense of ours its too many.
But….i still think today is on everyone, or least a lot of different things and not any one person or thing. cassel decisions, coaching mistakes, penalties at the wrong time, not stopping the run, dropped passes……
All contribute to the loss, and for the season…the loss(es).
Just like novocaine. give it time; always works..
The greater the fall, the grander the ascention..
I have never seen Haley deflect any of the blame
So I guess I don’t see the point of the post.
by Nick Britt on Dec 14, 2009 12:09 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
If anything he has recognized that he needs help by saying that they’ll bring in someone next year for OC.
If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen
Exactly
I will be turning in my application.
I'm starting to see some disturbing patterns with Haley
like insane stupid gambles on 4th down, and going back to those weak-ass WR screens that never seem to work…….It just seems like he goes for it on 4th when he shouldn’t, and doesn’t when he should…..He also calls plays that he clearly dosen’t have the personnel to execute(like forementioned WR screens)
I agree, RDO……he needs to be less concerned w’ cerebral schemery, and more focused on fundamentals. All this wierd-ass shifting before the snap & quick counts aren’t fooling anybody. Save the gadgetry for when the team has better grasp on the fundamentals i.e catching, blocking, tackling before throwing all the smoke & mirrors in.
by reedeasy on Dec 14, 2009 12:18 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Did you watch the first half of the season?
We were as conservative as a Herm Edwards offense. Run to LJ up the middle for 2.7 yards. Run to LJ up the middle for 2.7 more. Run to LJ up the middle for 2.7 more. Oops 1.9 yards short….time to punt.
good point
it is certainly less vanilla, & I know he’s trying to tailor it to suit the players’ strengths & all that, but it just seems like all the movement & odd formations confuses the offense more than the defense…..at least he didn’t try a fake punt inside his own 30
I think the shifts do help the offense to an extent
Shifts and motions allow the QB and players to see how the defense reacts to the shift and get a good idea if they are running man coverage vs. zone coverage. In some cases, you do run into problems if a defense is particularly good at disguising coverage or when a defense might be only running man-under or more complicated coverage schemes.
And if you remember the shifts from the Vermeil-Saunders days, Haley’s shifts don’t look near as intense.
definitely something to be said
about getting the D to show their hand……..I just wonder if it disrupts the offense’s rhythm sometimes
the vermiel offense shifted all the time
i don’t think it confused them or disrupted their rhythm at all
The only players I hurt with my words are the ones who have an inflated opinion of their ability. I can't worry about that.
Bill Parcells
Knowledge is confidence. And confidence lets you play fast.
Bill Parcells
how many pro-bowlers on those squads?
and how many on this one? These guys aren’t talented or experienced enough to keep it all together with all the stuff going on. THis team needs to focus on catching, blocking and timing before the chess game.
if a professional offensive football player gets confused by shifting, he should not be at this level
shifting and motion are two of the most basic things a player has to do and it has nothing to do with what they do once they are set after the shift. you are really reaching for something here
The only players I hurt with my words are the ones who have an inflated opinion of their ability. I can't worry about that.
Bill Parcells
Knowledge is confidence. And confidence lets you play fast.
Bill Parcells
Those WR screens were used mostly at the beginning of the game
To get Cassel’s confidence going….he completed his first 8 passes or something and he said that was a big confidence thing for him.
by Joel Thorman on Dec 14, 2009 5:54 AM CST up reply actions
I got that vibe as well
It could also have something to do with the success Denver had on those WR screens against us last week.
A good screen game opens up the deep pass game. I could see where Haley was going with those playcalls so I wasn’t disappointed.
Rec reedeasy
Rec RDO, Haley needs to call conservatively and get some wins before he goes all Bellicheck.
Trying to do surgery with the dull knife that is our current Offense will lead to much blood-letting.
Save it for when we aren’t playing beatable teams like Buffalo. The field position battle only works when you take the points that you have earned like multiple FG’s yesterday, was a true difference maker :(
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 14, 2009 5:06 PM CST up reply actions
thanks Steve
It just seems overcompensatory for an enormous lack of talent, I guess if you can’t beat your guy head-up, then give him a bunch of different looks to try & confuse him…….it DOES work for teams that have talent & experience, and it may work for us in the future, but work on all that stuff in the off-season…
Wrong on so many levels.
We lost because of poor clock management by both the players and coaching staff at the end of both halves and because for some reason, mostly on offense, when our players have a chance to make a play to make a great impact on the game they dont make it.
The only person responsible for the outcome of 4th and goal on the 1 was Schobel who made an incredible individual play or Cassel couldve crawled in on his hands and knees.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
It's easy to blame the coach when things don't work.
But if his plans had worked, and we had converted those fourth downs or completed those long passes, we would all be saying what a great job Haley did. It’s not about Haley, it’s about execution. Haley should be able to call whatever play he wants and we should be able to execute it, but we can’t. Because we are not a good football team.
Doesn't make any sense
to complain about most of these things. There is nothing, NOTHING, wrong with Haley going for it on 4th and 1 on the goal line. He was trying to turn a turn over into 7 points. I have seen the Packers run that exact same play to perfection. It didn’t work. Sometimes plays don’t work. Remember, the other guys are on scholarship too. But there was nothing wrong with the call. Also I feel you are blowing this whole “Statement” thing out of proportion. What do you think Haley saying they were trying to make a statement means? Do you think he was trying to make a public statement ala Tiger Woods? No. He was trying to make a statement to the Bills! A statement of 7 points. Yes. It is Haley’s job to make statements.
There was also nothing wrong with the punt calls. The Chiefs have one of the best punters in the league. Most of the game they were down a score. It made more sense to Haley to try to pin the Bills back by playing the field position game rather than try a low percentage kick that would give them the ball near midfield.
You contradict yourself complaining about Haley being conservative by not kicking FG’s and playing or field position but then also complain about him having Cassel take a couple of shots down field. I hate to break it to you but they were good calls seeing as the receivers were wide open. One throw was a little off the mark by Cassel and Bradley slipped, still nearly catching the ball and the second was over thrown.
The Chiefs lost the game for a number of reasons. Only a few of those reasons have something to do with Haley. The Chiefs lost because, as they have all year, they failed to execute. The players on this team fail to execute more often than not. The get penalties at the wrong time, turn over the ball at the wrong time and drop the ball at the wrong time. They lost because of Chambers’ drop, Cassel’s picks, Cassel’s overthrow and because the Bills defense played better than the Chiefs offense.
Period.
Please help send my girlfriend to Broadway! Visit http://magonbroadway.blogspot.com/
by Patrick Allen on Dec 14, 2009 6:25 AM CST reply actions 5 recs
+infinity
I guess alot of you guys have never played sports because if you did you would understand what making a statement is when you play a sport. If we make that 4th and one on the goal line then its like we just punched the bills in the mouth while pulling a McDaniels and saying “We own you”.
That is just one play where you have to go for it, if you get it it’s seven points if you don’t then the bills are backed up pretty darn deep in their own zone and the chiefs will most likely get the ball back with reasonable field position if the D does their job.
swish
Right
and it was really the only time all day the D didn’t do a good job. Over all the defense did a pretty good job yesterday. Yeah they gave up a lot of rushing yards but they totally shut down the pass. They didn’t allow Owens or Evans to beat them deep. They held the Bills to mostly FG"s even when facing a short field. Tyson Jackson had quite a few tackles which was another good sign that he is starting to get it.
As I have been saying over and over again the Chiefs have reached critical mass. We may see some minor offensive improvement when Bowe returns next week but this team is as good as it is going to get. They are bad. They don’t have enough talent. The coaches aren’t out there saying the team is 80% built like Herm did. This is year one of a program. Half the guys on the team right now don’t factor into the long term plan.
I think the Chiefs are going to be ok. I really do. I think Haley is going to be ok. See the season for what it is folks. Year one of a new program and an evaluation and learning period. That is what it is from the GM on down.
Please help send my girlfriend to Broadway! Visit http://magonbroadway.blogspot.com/
by Patrick Allen on Dec 14, 2009 8:09 AM CST up reply actions
Totally disagree on the defense.
They were terrible. That was probably the worst tackling performance all year. After giving up 245 on the ground to Denver they back that up with 200 to the Bills (who can’t pass). When a one dimensional team still runs it down your throat, that is pretty poor. The last two weeks have really exposed our linebackers. I don’t know how many times I was yelling at the TV for them to tackle the damn guy. How many plays did Bills RB’s get 2, 3, 4 yards after contact? Many.
Our run defense has been horrible since Greg Robinson was here and is still the worst in the league. I don’t get it. If you have a leak in your pipes….fix it.
I agree, the defense is pathetic.
They only show up against bad teams/bad QB’s. giving up 200 yards on the ground is PATHETIC…the Bills just weren’t smart enough to play to their strengths, and they kept passing the ball. If they kept running the ball they’d probably rack up 300-400 yards, and the game mercifully would have ended sooner.
Chiefs have 99 Problems and Cassel is ONLY one.
If I were playing the Chiefs,
I would run every play between the tackles and maybe even tell them I was goin go to do it. Watching with my wife, I said “why does anyone put the ball in the air against KC?” You can run on every play and dominate the game. Clancy doesn’t have the talent available or the creativity to stop the run.
the defense stuck to the game plan and it worked
they gave the offense a chance to win the game. they kept the bills in front of them and didn’t give up the big play. They had points scored on them off turnovers. They got a big stops in the 4th quarter when the Chiefs needed them.
Who cares how many yards they gave up? They kept us in the game on a day where we turned it over 3 relevant times.
Please help send my girlfriend to Broadway! Visit http://magonbroadway.blogspot.com/
by Patrick Allen on Dec 14, 2009 9:12 AM CST up reply actions
The yards they give up affects the field position and
the number of opportunties the offense has. The big run they gave up when Buffalo was pinned deep was big, and par for the course. A chance to get good field position was once again evaded. The only reason Buffalo was stopped was because of their own ineptitude in the passing game. If they stuck to the ground, they would have run up the score.
You are right
there is nothing wrong with going for it on 4th and 1 when you are 3-9. The problem was the play he called, absolute BS call. As far as the punts, we do have a kicker that has been quite reliable so far and has shown good distance, so why no try to put points on the board that were within his range?
Here we go....
This year Haley has made mistakes. Charles has made mistakes. Bowe has made mistakes. Hali has made mistakes. Cassel has made mistakes. Get where I’m going? It is a team game and everyone makes mistakes. You just have to look pass them and improve for next week. That’s all we should ever ask for when it comes to football. Who in the game has never made one mistake? Good luck finding someone. Go Chiefs!
Hali, Johnson, Vrable, Mays, Williams, Studebaker, Belcher
-Come Get Some-
by Chiefsfan85 on Dec 14, 2009 6:27 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
There are reasonable points on both sides but again fans can't be unbiased.
Yes I agree and have said as much all season long until this game actually that Haley’s play calling does not fit Cassel’s strengths. But I couldn’t disagree more about Sunday’s game RDO. You do have valid points but I don’t think your right about Sunday’s game.
That’ was the first game I’ve seen Haley calling quick short plays and picking up yards and moving the chains. Hell, we looked like a real team some of the time. You call those short plays over and over to set up the long shot down the field. Which he did. Cassel blew those.
It’s the same old thing in here as it is on every other fan site. Same ol’ same ol’. Nobody can face the music because it hurts too much. We don’t want to accept the fact that we got ripped off with our 63 million dollar QB.
I don’t care if he threw 762 interceptions in one game and gained – 4 yards there would still be the Cassel cult in here praising him for the amazing talent he displayed on the field. REGARDLESS of the facts sitting in front of their faces.
Did Haley make some questionalbe calls? Yes! Does Belicheck? Yes! If Haley makes that go ahead TD on 4th and goal he’s a hero. We win and eveyone is happy. It’s “good gutsy call” Sunday.
The problem is there’s very little consistency among the KC fan base. Cassel is playing worse and worse as time goes by. I don’t care about the measly 200+ yards. He can’t score. That’s his f*n job. He’s not out there to break 200 yards passing. He’s out there to win. He threw 4 int’s. But of course that is on Haley. Because we all know Haley has a remote control PS3 hooked into Cassels brain and he hit the x button instead of the b button.
It is of course not Cassels fault even though he is the QB. We are the biggest excuse makers in the NFL here in KC. It’s true. We have become so conditioned to losing that we don’t care anymore. If a guy comes in and is ranked in the bottom of the pile it means nothing in KC. HE’s a God.
Cassel is ranked 26th. Of course that means nothing. It only goes to show how great he is if you listen to the hoopla garbage in here about him all the time. He is ranked above Kerry Collins, who got benched for sucking ass, followed by an entourage of rookies to inlcude Matthew Stafford, Mark Sanchez & Josh Freeman. But wait Cassel is ranked above some veterans too. Why there’s Jake Delhomme, he’s better than Jake. Oh and he’s above Jamarcus Russel…who also got benched for sucking ass.
I don’t know what you have to drink or smoke or shoot up to overlook what is dead in your face AP. Right there. Every stat including the record of wins to losses is GLARING in our faces but who cares. I just WANT to believe so I will. I don’t care about the facts. I don’t care that every single professional retired NFL player who knows the game inside and out thinks he is a wash (except homer Gannon who will probably live to eat those words) and all the sports analysts who know nothing about football compared to us think he is a bust. But who cares what experts and a team of guys who have over 50 years combined experience think right?
I already know what the comments that follow will say. I’ve heard it all year. I know I know. I’ll see. You’ll show me. Just wait and I’ll see. Ok. I’m waiting. I have been all year. Waiting while Cassel gets worse with each game. Now he throws his record for int’s in a game. While Peyton and Favre set records that are awesome our QB is setting records for new lows, even for Cassel, each week recently. But hey, it means nothing. He’s a solid QB and he is amazing. He is the second coming. I expect to see him levetate and float into the end zone any game now.
It’s absolutely ridiculous. If anyone from AP went on NFL network for example as a guest commentator and they started talking Matt Cassel. If you started in with how great he is and it’s just a few things around him that are the problem and he is gonna show everyone. They would cut your mike and go to commercial and you would not be on the set when they came back. It’s so ridiculous it’s almost laughable at some point. It becomes the boy who cried wolf. I can’t even take the Cassel crew seriously anymore.
I’ve given up common sense discussions. It makes zero difference what he does each game right there in front of America. With rosey glasses on we see what we WANT. Not what IS. Yes maybe you can blame Haley to some degree. Until the last couple games I have not been in his corner. So go ahead and blame everything on anyone except the guys who are involved. It couldn’t be Chambers fault that HE dropped a pass. Nor could it possibly be Cassels fault that he misses two sure fire TD’s AGAIN in one game.
In the NFL you HAVE to make those passes. YOU HAVE TO. That’s what separated the pro’s from the rookies. You HAVE to make those clutch catches. You CANNOT miss the pass when the TD is on the line. You CANNOT miss the catch when your QB finally does hit you in the hands.
It is so unbelievable that so many are still ga ga over Cassel. I can only attribute it to a man crush. Because common sense has nothing to do with it.
Believing what MIGHT someday be is nothing more than quarters in a wishing well. Who cares what he MIGHT become someday. My God maybe Jamarcus Russel will be great someday. So should we get him? NO? Why not Why don’t you want Russel here as our starting QB? He Could be great someday. And apparently make believe is all you need to win the KC fans over.
I don’t care about any of that garbage. This is the same attitude that has prevailed here in KC for over 40 years now. We are OK with OK. I don’t get it. I’m not OK with OK anymore. I don’t want a 26th ranked QB. Good for you if that’s good enough. There are teams out there that could use a fan like you. Root for Detroit. Root for the Browns. They need people who will pretend. We don’t. We need anger. We need fans that care enough to put the money up to buy a billboard to voice our anger and disgust at this joke of a team.
that way when we get our hopes up next year maybe they will think twice and do the right thing.
by krayfish on Dec 14, 2009 7:50 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Kray, you're right about one thing -
which is that early in the game, we saw how effective Cassel (and his offense) can be when quick, short passes are called. Remember – he started the game 7 of 8, and was moving the ball AND the chains. I liked that, too. If the Chiefs had stuck with that, Cassel could have remained more effective through the whole game.
Whether Cassel was (or is) the right guy to be QB of the Chiefs no longer matters. The decision has been made. He has a long term contract, and he’s going to remain the starter. The real question is whether the Chiefs can use him to best advantage.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
very true RDO...and again my friend you always do good posts
I just get passionate. None of that was at you personally.
"The problem is there’s very little consistency among the KC fan base"
So the fan base is losing games now? Bro, not once, in all of my years watching football, have disagreements amongst the fanbase caused a team to win or lose.
Yes, I know that’s not what you meant. I just use it to highlight that a lack of consistency among the fanbase here at AP is not a problem at all. It gives us something to do Monday – Saturday. What a boring site this would be if we all agreed all the time. Try not to pile on people for not agreeing with you.
Where you and I differ on Cassel is that your hatred of him makes EVERTHING his fault. Try to have some balance man. Sometimes he throws good passes that get dropped. Sometimes Rudy gets run over and he has no time to read the D. Sometimes he makes good decisions and catches an unlucky break. Sometimes he makes a piss poor decision and gets what he deserves. Sometimes he makes good decisions but throws a shitty pass. Sometimes he makes poor throws on deep routes. Sometimes his inept receivers fall down or forget to catch with 2 hands on deep routes. Sometimes his coach asks him to run a bootleg on 4th and 1 instead of giving the ball to his best playmaker.
There’s enough blame on this shit sandwich of a team to go around.
You and those who only blame Haley are as much at fault for this “lack of consistency among the fanbase” as the people you are railing at. When people never blame Cassel it makes you want to always blame Cassel. When you always blame Cassel it makes others never want to blame Cassel.
Kool-Aid and Hater-Aid are both shitty drinks. Neither get us any closer to the truth.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 14, 2009 9:43 AM CST up reply actions 7 recs
Great Post Satchmo
And EVERY QB in the league makes mistakes. Brady threw a few INTs yesterday, as did Manning. The big difference is that KC doesn’t have the talent yet to overcome.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
+1
There’s enough blame on this shit sandwich of a team to go around.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Dec 14, 2009 10:24 AM CST up reply actions
You said it in a way I couldn't KC Satchmo
The defenders of Cassel are accused of “ignorant man love”
And the Haters treat Cassel like hes playing every position on the field and every misstep comes back to him. We have two EXTREME sides that are fighting, when we should meet in the middle and realize he does good things and bad things— and that can be said for most of the roster.
I'm not a Cassel fan or a Tamba Hali Fan or a Jamaal Charles fan. I'm a fan of the Kansas City Chiefs.
But Satch said it best:
What a boring site this would be if we all agreed all the time.
Middle ground is boring. lol.
Everyone stop. Take a deep breath. Count backwards from 10.
Ok. Now remember that the back up QB is ALWAYS the most popular guy in town when a team is this bad. Matt will bounce back. He had one of the best TD to INT ratios for the first several weeks of the season. Chill out people.
by Red N Gold Beast on Dec 14, 2009 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
Totally agree that everyone taking the middle is boring
Here’s a great example. In the Bronco game, Bobby Wade either made a horrible drop on a deep pass or he was badly overthrown.
Debate over this issue was spirited and fun. Both sides made valid points. Then it quickly desolved into a pissing match about Cassel. It was clear that many people were blaming Cassel in an effort to make the point that he’s the big problem on this team. Other people defended Cassel and blamed Wade because that’s the side they’re on.
What was wrong with just debating the play? It was a huge play…a critical moment in that game. It didn’t need any of the other baggage that wound up making it a rehashed, boring dick-swing-a-thon.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 14, 2009 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
Yes... well said, Satchmo
There certainly is plenty of blame to go around in this loss. For me, the difference with Haley’s share is simple: he wasn’t being smart. And it’s a lot easier for a head coach to be smarter than it is for players to make plays.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
I agree with a lot of your post
and disagree with some parts. For example, I disagree that going for it on 4th and 1 was a bad decision. I do agree that the play call was horrible. I knew something like that was coming. I was yelling at the bench to “Please just give it to JC”. There was no need to get cute there. Give ball to JC, run behind Waters, score TD.
IMO, where Haley is failing is that he hasn’t quite grasped that the talent on this team isn’t really capable of making his creative play calls work. To be honest, I hope he never figures it out. The plan here is to get players who can make those plays. I’d hate for Haley to turn into Captain Conservative once we do have the pieces in place.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 14, 2009 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
I see where you're coming from, Kray...
And I appreciate your passion. Don’t forget that the rest of us are as passionate as you are. Throwing other commenters under the bus…which you come close to doing…may be cathartic, but it’s not totally helpful either.
But I do think that Chiefs fans have a right to expect more from this team, not less. From the players down to the grounds crew, Arrowhead Drive needs to work towards excellence. I know that’s at the heart of what you’re saying.
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
by go_saleaumua on Dec 14, 2009 10:02 AM CST up reply actions
That was the most eloquent rant I have ever heard :)
Parts are definitely true, and definitely some thought was provoked on my part.
We can wish and dream and hope as fans. Still, a problem we have nothing better at present to throw at the wall and see if it sticks :(
Rec ChrisFish
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 14, 2009 5:35 PM CST up reply actions
RDO when I say "YOU" in my comment above I don't mean you personally
I’m using it in a broad sense to anyone who fits the description I’m talking about. You have a good post there and make very good points. Most of which I don’t disagree with at least not completely.
It’s just the comments that follow sucking up to Cassel irregardless of his performance are enough to make me puke. You keep up the good posts. I’ll keep reading them. I may not alwasy agree or disagree but I love to read them.
You get a rec from me again.
This post wouldn't even exist
if Chambers had caught that ball with 3 minutes left. Well, I guess Buffalo could have touched him short of the goal line & then stopped us on 4 strait plays, but that’s unlikely.
I think in just about every loss in the NFL you can point to apparent mistakes from the coaches and players. The winning team also makes mistakes through the game, but they won the game so nobody cares.
If KC had executed that 4th & 1 at the goal line nobody would say it was a bad call (but I do agree with you, you take the 3 points early in the game like that). As for the punting in Buffalo territory, those weren’t bad calls at all. Succop probably would have missed them (I’m sure they had a feel for his range in the conditions based on pre-game kicks), and Haley would have been RAILED if he’d missed & Buffalo drove a short field for scores.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
I also assumed that they had a feel for Succop's range
until Haley, when asked, didn’t mention that issue as part of the decision. If he’d said, “Well, in warmups, Ryan wasn’t hitting beyond 45 yards,” then no problem. But he didn’t say that.
Why do you think Buffalo couldn’t have stopped the Chiefs in four straight plays? They sure did earlier in the game, when the Chiefs got the ball with a first and goal at the nine after the turnover. That’s the only reason we’re even talking about the fourth and 1 call.
I agree with you, though, that if Kansas City had scored a TD on the fourth and 1, nobody – including me – would be complaining. But I also wouldn’t be complaining if Haley had kicked a field goal in that situation. It could have put the Chiefs in a position to win the game.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
good point RDO
and not just Buffalo either. Everyone almost has stopped us at the goal line this year.
Regarding the field goals
it’s hard to say. If Haley had said in the post-game that he didn’t go for the FGs because Succop wasn’t making them in warmups, isn’t he kind-of throwing Succop under the bus? I don’t think the fact that he didn’t say anything about it means that it wasn’t true. I just find it hard to believe that Haley would have punted if Succop had demonstrated pre-game that he could hit them, considering how well he’s done so far this year.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
I don't think so.
isn’t he kind-of throwing Succop under the bus?
We all know the kid’s got a leg. If conditions or injury shortened his range there’s no shame in that.
If he had tried the FGs and missed, followed by Haley saying “Well he was hitting those before the game” that would be throwing him under the bus.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Dec 14, 2009 10:27 AM CST up reply actions
Right
There’s no shame in saying, “We felt that was beyond Succup’s range today.” Field and weather conditions affect what kickers can do on a given day. What concerned me was that Haley didn’t mention it at all – which leads me to believe that a FG was never considered in any of those situations.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
I think Haley wanted to stick it to Buffalo
and got stuck instead. Hopefully Sunday vs Cleveland Haley will take what is there and just WIN the game. One more hard lesson learned.
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 14, 2009 5:45 PM CST up reply actions
OJT
Bottom line, that’s exactly what’s goin on…wer’re going through the pain and agony of “on the job training” for coach Haley.
What I don’t understand is, if this guy was a decent wide recievers coach, why is it all the recievers have such a hard time with drops?
It just looks like none of these guys are believing anything coach Haley is preaching. I just hope next year the Chiefs are alot better for his sake, I don’t know how more OJT the fans can endure…
I think it's talent related
Bowe-Chambers-Wade aren’t nearly as talented as Fitz-Boldin-Breaston.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
I totally agree with this post..
Haley has not been good this yr…He has made bad decision after bad decision. In a game against Buffalo, a team that does not score very many points, you take the points when they present themselves. Honestly, id you want to go for it on 4th down from the 1, wouldnt u rather put the ball in the hands of Charles or Castille if you are going to run the ball. A bootleg for Matt Cassel…are u kidding me. He burned a time out to come up with that stupid BS?..
I am from Phoenix. Ive watched a lot of Cardinal games with Haley as OC. He like the quick strike big play. Well guess what? He does not have the same weapons here in KC. No Curt,no Larry,no Anquan,no Breaston. You have to adjust your playcalling to fit your teams strengths. We have a back that has speed and has been playing pretty damn good. Our QB has accuracy problems, a weak arm, and our receivers have a bad habit of dropping the damn ball. So why is Haley calling 40+ pass plays a game?
And for all of you saying it’s cassels fault. well I got news for you, thats on Haley too. He has the ability to pull the QB when he is being ineffective. Ive said it before and Ill say it again….Haley said in training camp that B Croyle was the best QB he had. He played well against Baltimore and his stats in that game are far better than most of Cassels game. If you want to win now, then you got to give the kid a shot. His skills are better than Cassels. He just has the FRAGILE tag on him because he played behind a horrible O Line. The only thing Cassel does better than Croyle is scrammble and make money!
lol..my brother lives in AZ near phoenix...
I agree though that Cassel is not accurate mid to long range especially. I don’t want that here in KC. That’s not good enough. I want a solid accurate QB. No excuses just go get it done Pioli.
by krayfish on Dec 14, 2009 9:37 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That's right KCinAZ
He has the ability to pull the QB when he is being ineffective.
I was really hoping to see Croyle come in in the 3rd quarter at some point. I’m neither a homer or a hater of Cassel’s at this point, and I don’t care about wether Croyle fits into the future or not. He should have been brought into this game. That’s on Haley.
Keeping Cassel out there after a number of failures is damaging his psyche…….sometimes he comes off the field with a look on his face like he wishes coach would put Croyle in for a little while.
by Hail2DaChiefs on Dec 14, 2009 10:59 AM CST up reply actions
Big plays
The key to winning in the NFL is making more big plays than your opponent. I know that sounds vanilla and extremely naive, but it’s true. Bottom line is that if Chamberrs catches that ball at the end of the game, then the Chiefs would have won. And everyone in KC would be singing Cassel AND Haley’s praises. We would have been talking about how this team was a team of fighters and playmakers, siting the forced turnovers and Charles’ big TD run. We also would have been patting Cassel on the head for another 4th quarter comeback.
And we all would have over looked Haley’s judgement errors from earlier in the game. We would have been talking about how gambling on 4th down is understandable when you field one of the worst offenses in the league. Besides, it’s a losing team at the ass end of a losing season. You have to try to get this team sparked somehow.
Big plays fellas. We missed on perhaps the most crucial one of the game, and I know, it sucks. But this horrid season is almost over. We are only about 1 win shy of what a lot people expected. Let’s pick it up against the Browns and keep in mind that help is coming this offseason. Or at least it sure as hell better be.
Everyone stop. Take a deep breath. Count backwards from 10.
Ok. Now remember that the back up QB is ALWAYS the most popular guy in town when a team is this bad. Matt will bounce back. He had one of the best TD to INT ratios for the first several weeks of the season. Chill out people.
by Red N Gold Beast on Dec 14, 2009 9:10 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Really?
Because all we scored off of small plays was 3 points.
Everyone stop. Take a deep breath. Count backwards from 10.
Ok. Now remember that the back up QB is ALWAYS the most popular guy in town when a team is this bad. Matt will bounce back. He had one of the best TD to INT ratios for the first several weeks of the season. Chill out people.
by Red N Gold Beast on Dec 14, 2009 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
not really...we went long and botched it and then ended the drive
we were moving the ball the best with short concise plays IMO
That's kind of funny right there.
Assuming we would have won if we had the ball on the 2 yard line at the end of the game. Maybe we could have rolled Cassel out 4 times with a double-secret reverse, tackle eligble, throwback play. LOL. We would have been even more pissed if it was complete and couldn’t get in the end zone….again.
Well it's also kind of funny to assume they wouldn't have made it.
As shit as this team is I still have faith in them to move the ball 2 yards for the game winning TD. If I can’t believe they can do that, then I’d be ashamed to call myself a Chiefs fan. Not like it matters (we’ll never know), but I’d have to say there’s a much better chance of them making it than not.
Everyone stop. Take a deep breath. Count backwards from 10.
Ok. Now remember that the back up QB is ALWAYS the most popular guy in town when a team is this bad. Matt will bounce back. He had one of the best TD to INT ratios for the first several weeks of the season. Chill out people.
by Red N Gold Beast on Dec 14, 2009 10:35 AM CST up reply actions
all the way back to last years opener against the Pat's I've seen us fail on first and goal
LJ couldn’t get it in from the 2 against the pats last year remember? We have the lowest (or 2nd after sunday not sure) rushing TD average in the NFL….I don’t think I’d bet my pink slip on them scoring a rushing TD this year.
That's not my point though.
And besides, if you want to point out a failed 2 yard TD attempt with LJ from almost 2 seasons ago, I’ll point out that Jamaal scored a TD last week against DEN from about 4 yards out.
My point is this: why watch the Chiefs play on every Sunday if you don’t think they might be able to win? Why get on AP and follow the Chiefs like a deprived groupie if you don’t truly believe deep down that they can’t move the ball 2 yards. In four tries. To win the game.
Seriously. A lot went wrong yesterday, and there’s plenty of blame to go around. Cassel. Haley. The wide non-receivers. But when push comes to shove, you’re wasting your time being a Chiefs fan if you don’t think they would have had the opportunity to win yesterday. I’ll say it again. If Chambers makes that catch, the Chiefs win. One more big play was all they needed. I would bet my pink slip on that. But then again I drive a POS. ;-)
Everyone stop. Take a deep breath. Count backwards from 10.
Ok. Now remember that the back up QB is ALWAYS the most popular guy in town when a team is this bad. Matt will bounce back. He had one of the best TD to INT ratios for the first several weeks of the season. Chill out people.
by Red N Gold Beast on Dec 14, 2009 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
My only point was that is pretty naive to think that play would have
resulted in a win. Putting it in the end zone has been a big problem as evidenced by the earlier possession down there. If it would have been complete to Chambers, I would guess that 80% of Chiefs fans would have been “hoping” they could score for the win. Doesn’t make you less of a fan, just going with the evidence from the season. If you are betting pink slips on the Chiefs scoring a TD, I hope you have a lot of shoes. The evidence just doesn’t support blind faith.
I watch the Chiefs play every Sunday for the same reason we all do, because they are my team. I have pulled for them since 1968 and always will. Doesn’t mean I blindly believe they will win every game and convert every play. Really, at this point, I assume they are going to lose most games and rarely convert. It’s just what they have proven on the field.
fantastic post
Agree one hundred percent. We’re losing largely because of our coach, clock management, game calls, etc. It’s also a lack of talent.
I will say though that I’m not calling for the coaches head. It takes time to learn this game. Many successful coaches even had former positions where they were fired. Everyone’s learning in this mess of a season, including Haley.
Yes, Matt - I quite agree
I, too, am not calling for Haley’s head. Changing had coaches after this season is probably the very worst thing the Chiefs could do. I’d just like for him to be better at his job.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
I think that this whole team is pressing to hard too make something big happen for the fans. They need to Stick to what they can Execute!
Execution is the reason for this loss (and the two previous games as well) PERIOD. If half of the of the poorly executed plays were done as they were drawn up we win going away! That being said, successful execution starts with a Great Plan that Highlights Your Strengths! This coaching staff has failed on this point in each of the last 3 losses! You need to put the Players you have in the best position to win to be successful! This is just plain not happening! Cassel has limitations, but if you design a playbook that highlights his strengths (ie, the first series) you at least give this team a chance to win.
One other thing I noted yesterday that makes be belive this. The fouth and 1 from the goal line. Haley was influenced by the Crowd noise at Arrowhead to go for it! If you play back that whole thing you can hear the crowd chanting this before the timeout! I really beleave that Haley heard this and tried to do something “for the Highlight reel” to get the crowd into the game and on the teams side. This whole team is pressing too hard do something good! They need to operate in the K.I.S.S. mode (Keep it simple …stupid!)
So you think you are so important that no one can replace you? Put your finger in a bucket of water and pull it out. Does it leave a hole? Nope, just some ripples that eventually calm themselves!
by Fan of the Red And Gold on Dec 14, 2009 10:50 AM CST reply actions
I believe Herm tried to follow the K.I.S.S. mode...
and all it got him was field goal after field goal while the other team was racking up TD’s. When our D is capable of giving up the big plays and allowing the other guys to get 7 more points you have to go for the 7 just to stay in the game. I just watched Miami score it’s second TD yesterday with almost the exact QB roll out that we did on their 1 yard line. If Albert or whoever would’ve made that block on the Bills defender then I think Cassel walks in for the TD.
by RA_ChiefsFan on Dec 14, 2009 10:57 AM CST up reply actions
That's fine, RA
except the Chiefs weren’t playing a team that could score like that. The Bills have scored only nine more points than the Chiefs this season. If you’re playing the Patriots… sure… maybe it makes more sense to go for the TD when you have the chance. But against the Bills? I don’t think so.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
Exactly RDO
The head coach should have had that in mind beforehand……We dont score many points and niether do they…so we should put points on the board when ever possible cause more than likely its going to be a tight game towards the end…
One thing about this play...
It looked like the only person on Offense that knew Cassel was going to bootleg was Cassel. If you watch it over again, Vrable looked shocked, whipping his head around then lamely asking for the ball as Cassel gets hit when Cassel comes around on his side. KISS dictates running Charles through the strength of the line with a Fullback leading or kicking a field goal. Remember, this letdown on Offense lead to a letdown on Defence the very next play where the Bills ran for 50+yards on the next play from scrimage! The Bills then followed this huge momentum swing play by capping this Offensive series with a Touchdown!
So you think you are so important that no one can replace you? Put your finger in a bucket of water and pull it out. Does it leave a hole? Nope, just some ripples that eventually calm themselves!
by Fan of the Red And Gold on Dec 14, 2009 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
where are just promoted NT busted the backfield ran into the ball carrier and failed to wrap up
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 14, 2009 6:00 PM CST up reply actions
And to that I would add this...
We have to expect that when a new head coach and GM arrive, they will build the team in the way that they think will give them to be successful in the long term; I don’t begruge Pioli and Haley their right to blow up the team so they can install zone blocking, a 3-4 defense and so on. They must be given the opportunity to set it up the way they believe it will work best.
And I also think that installing a “culture of winning” is essential to this team. I applaud much of what Pioli and Haley have done towards this end. But the best way to instill this culture is to actually win a game your team is capable of winning. Despite all the problems the Chiefs have right now – and all the mistakes they made on the field – I believe they could have won this game with better decisions from the head coach.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
by RDOGuy on Dec 14, 2009 11:03 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with you but...
it takes “Two to Tango”. When the opportunity is there for the taking, the players have to execute. Half of the issue is play calling (the opportunity to execute the play) and the other is player performance (executing the play). When I look at the overall “Team” picture it looks to me that everyone (Coaches & Players) is “pressing to do something great” instead of “doing what it takes to win” in all of the last three games.
Examples; Haley and an dicey playcall on 4th and goal from the one yard line. Cassel throwing from the wrong foot on the run resulting in an interception. Charles trying to gain that extra yard and getting the ball stripped.
So you think you are so important that no one can replace you? Put your finger in a bucket of water and pull it out. Does it leave a hole? Nope, just some ripples that eventually calm themselves!
by Fan of the Red And Gold on Dec 14, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions
You're quite right, FRG
Pressing to make big plays has been a big problem for the Chiefs… from the head coach on down. Your example of Cassel’s interception is right on point. He was under pressure on first and 10. He was well out of the pocket. All he had to do was throw it away and try again on second down. Instead, he made a terrible throw off his back foot and got a pick – one he richly deserved.
But why was Cassel pressing? Because none of his drives to that point in the game had put any points on the board. Because the Chiefs were behind by a touchdown, when they could just as easily have been down by a single point – or maybe even ahead by two – if Cassel’s head coach had allowed his team to put the points on the board.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
Agreed!
So you think you are so important that no one can replace you? Put your finger in a bucket of water and pull it out. Does it leave a hole? Nope, just some ripples that eventually calm themselves!
by Fan of the Red And Gold on Dec 14, 2009 2:51 PM CST up reply actions
Wow...very true fan R&G...it really is execution and that is on everyone.
I just can’t take it anymore. I’m going to drive off a cliff if they don’t get this thing going next year. I swear. My heart can’t take it. I will settle down in a couple days. It’s too soon after the loss for me to be rationale right now. I need a kisssssss, cause I am stupid! LOL
Here ya go bro
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Dec 14, 2009 10:59 AM CST up reply actions
The only reason Cassel completed 7 of 8 passes and had a 60% completion percent
was because Haley made it a point of emphasis to start the game off giving Cassel short dump down or screen passes to get his confidence back. Problem was they were ineffective and Cassel left the game worse off.
From skimming your article I also believe you failed to mention that Cassel missed Bradley wide open twice in the end zone. Somehow I believe that might have had a big effect on the game.
Please note I no way disagree with you article. Please just don’t be so light on Cassel though
I don't want no Yo-Yos
by CaptainPoopDeck on Dec 14, 2009 11:00 AM CST reply actions
I would not
have used succop from 52 in that weather, no way would I mess with his confidence that way.
second, Cassel is not at fault, yes he missed throws, go back and watch the hit he takes to his back, its really what hes worried about, taking a hit and turning it over. he threw one INC of those 2 overthrows due to a hand in his face
He hit from 54 in the rain in pre-season.
I was disappointed in the lack of consistent decisions by Haley.
The early 4th and goal, I’m fine with either decision. Later and in similar circumstances (4th and 1 from the 3) he opts to go the other way. I think we left 3 or 6 points on the field with punts rather than FGs. Pretty much, I didn’t like every decision after the the initial 4th and goal.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Dec 14, 2009 11:10 AM CST up reply actions
After reading Matt Conners Post I have to agree a little more with RDO about Haley
and the play calling…for any1 who has not read it…it’s front page and it’s a great read! I just wanted to humble myself and apologize to RDO. Your post makes more sense the more I think about it. Tks RDO!
If LJ never twitted...
would Haley have given the starting job to Charles by now?..Or would we still be averaging 2.9 yrds per carry.
Remember when Charles was deactivated after the Giants game?…Isnt this guy considered to be our best offensive player?…..Haley deactivated our best offensive player? How good of a judge of talent does this HC have?
BAD DECISIONS BAD DECISIONS
Don't we have Succop??
I only ask because there were 2 possessions where we punted when it would have been around a 53 or 54 yard field goal, hasn’t Succop proved that he is a great kicker, and that he can hit long field gols? I think he has, and even if he had gone 1 for 2 on those field goals, Chambers drop on the last drive wouldn’t have been so devastating, we could have taken it to overtime and tried again. Thats all I have to say.
Not to mention...
Twice when we went for it, one of those field goals we passed up for a QB bootleg, and the other I don’t remember the outcome, but theres the tie, and then Chanbers drop would have led to a chip shot game winner…right?
NO Excuses for losing to Oakland and Buffalo at home. Should be 5-8 which is progress. .
by NFL season ticket holder on Dec 14, 2009 11:54 AM CST reply actions
Agreed
All of our previous coaches understood play to win at home. Haley miss the memo?
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 14, 2009 6:06 PM CST up reply actions
so biased i couldn't even finish the article
it’s like trying to read jason whitlock. trying to find meaningless things, e.g. “statement” statement, to harp on. Did Haley make some bad play calls? Hell yeah, most notably the goal line QB mis-direction. But that doesn’t change the fact that you obviously have an agenda and have already made up your mind about Haley and Pioli and will try shove whatever shaped peg into the “they suck” hole that you can.
Am I a Haley apologist? Hell no. I’m increasingly frustrated by him and his situational play-calling. He really needs more assistant coaches (e.g. OC, QB coach). But I’m also a realist. It’s 13 games into his head coaching career. He inherited a terrible team. Without Bowe, Cassel has ZERO receivers or TE (except bench player Cottam) who haven’t been released by another team in the last 14 months! Sure, maybe we could have used a draft pick on WR, and not traded TG. But those decisions were based on the future. Time will tell. If you judge every GM/HC combo on their first 13 games after inheriting a 2 win team, I think you might be suggesting we have a new GM/HC every single year for the foreseeable future.
You have to give them another year. See what Haley does with a hopefully improved and deepened coaching staff. See what they do with another year to build the team they want. If you see no/little improvement by mid-year next season, i’ll be right with you. But I see enough good things in this limited team to think their path isn’t set yet and we need more time and another offseason.
by VermeilLikesToCry on Dec 14, 2009 1:48 PM CST reply actions
Excuse me, sir,
but I absolutely reject your notion that I am judging Pioli and Haley on their first 13 games after inheriting a team that won two games.
Nowhere have I suggested that Haley should be fired, or that he can’t be a good head coach. I said he wasn’t a good head coach in this game. That’s an entirely different thing. In fact, a few weeks ago, I wrote a post saying that Haley had showed signs of maturity in another game. I wish he had continued to show those signs in this game, but in my opinion, he did not. Is that what you would call “bias”?
As to whether or not I have an agenda… well, there you’re absolutely right. My agenda is this: I’d like to see the Chiefs in the Super Bowl again before I die. So I will continue to say what I think.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
I would add
that since the Pittsburg game coaches and players have not performed well in any of the three games when “it was on the line” instead allowing the bad things happening around them to influence their playing mood. This entire team has the stamp of a young, inexperienced, emotional team searching for their identity. When they fall down due to adversity, they don’t yet know how to dust themselves off and make up for it. Haley bit off more than he can chew with coaching decisions made earlier this year (it really shows now) and he is pressing now trying anything to get this team a win (overdoing/overcoaching it in the process). I fully expect things to be corrected going into next season.
So you think you are so important that no one can replace you? Put your finger in a bucket of water and pull it out. Does it leave a hole? Nope, just some ripples that eventually calm themselves!
by Fan of the Red And Gold on Dec 14, 2009 3:06 PM CST up reply actions
The offense and kicker group has a combined age of 26.2509609743
Haley is 40 something. Who needs to show the maturity and wisdom?
Use your weopans properly Todd. Kick a FG, Have Charles who rushed for 8 yards on the 4 and 1 play , get the TD. Win the Home game Todd. Grow quickly into what you are supposed to be “THE” Head Coach of the greatest football team in the NFL !
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 14, 2009 6:12 PM CST up reply actions
fair enough
i haven’t read all your posts, but the one’s i’ve seen have been blatantly anti haley/pioli, so my comments were based off a cumulation of statements. But there are many points of clear bias in this article alone, just to name a few:
- “63 Million Dollar Man” – this is the rallying cry of the anti-piolo/haley, including your leader, Jason “Witless” Whitlock
- Picking apart and over-analyzing a single word or phrase, in this case “statement”.
- making 2/3 of your argument being not going for 52 and 54 yard FG’s in the first half of a close game, outdoors, in December, on a fairly windy day. A hindsight argument for sure.
Hey, I agree the play-calling was poor in this game, but to me, your opinion seems pre-determined. But that’s just my opinion.
by VermeilLikesToCry on Dec 14, 2009 3:00 PM CST reply actions
Jason? My leader?
Don’t think so. Yeah… sometimes I agree with him. But often I do not. In fact, I was unaware he had used the term “63 Million Dollar Man” in any of his columns. If I had known, I probably would have avoided using the phrase in the first place.
Blatantly anti Haley/Pioli? Well, I’m not. But for the sake of argument, let’s say I am. So what? Am I not entitled to my opinion – just as you are?
Picking apart and over-analyzing… hmm… let’s see. Well, you tell me. What’s more important to the Chiefs at this point? Making a statement – which I remind you, is Haley’s choice of words, not my own – or winning football games? I know what I think. How about you?
I’ll tell you what: let’s forget those 50+ yard field goals. The fact is that Haley chose twice in this game to go for it on fourth down when a field goal was easily in reach – even on a windy day in December. (And by the way – isn’t a close game exactly the time to get every point on which you can lay your hands? But I digress)
The first would have been closer than a PAT. The second – with 2:24 left in the game – would have been from 38 yards. If he’d taken the first, the second would have tied the game – putting the Chiefs in a position to win with only a FG in their last possession, rather than with a desperate Hail Mary. At the very least, it would have given them to chance to fight on in OT.
As to your suggestion that kicking a field goal early in a game is somehow inappropriate, let me say this: Hank Stram was an innovator… an offensive Mad Scientist. But he never once shied away from an opportunity to put points on the scoreboard – no matter who the Chiefs were playing. There were many games in which Stenerud himself outscored the other team. Now… I’ll grant you that The Mentor had the benefit of a terrific defense – a luxury Todd Haley doesn’t yet have – but I still think that points are a lot more important than “statements.”
Yes… the Chiefs made a hell of lot of mistakes on the field in this game. With fewer of them, what Haley did might not have mattered one bit. But even with those mistakes, the Chiefs could have had a chance to win this game… if Haley hadn’t been so determined to make a “statement.”
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
apologies
Looking back at my original comment, it was overly harsh. My apologies. I think I’m frustrated with all the over-reaction I’m seeing from a sub-set of the Chiefs fan base these days. No doubt an accumulation of 3 years of ineptitude, that is, by some, put all at Haley and Pioli’s feet (unfairly, since they are at worst only partially responsible for this one year).
Anyway, my point about kicks has to do with the grand sum of all those factors. Not just a close game, not just the first half, but when you factor in that it was the first half of what appeared to be a low scoring game, suddenly field position might be more important than a high-risk FG (then factor in weather, etc, for what distance the cutoff yardage would be). The point being it was a borderline call, and making a fuss about it is pure hindsight, in my opinion.
As I said before, the playcalling in this game does not get a passing grade on offense (but does on defense). And I think Haley needs more offensive coaches to: a) take some responsibilities away; and b) have more voices in decision making. The play chioce on 4th and 1 at the goal line was horrible. I think you either run it up the gut (worst case you pin the opponent at their own 1, leading to a very likely punt) or kick a FG. In any case, no long developing, potentially minus-yardage plays, which is what he called.
Could we have won with better play-calling on offense? Maybe. But there are a multitude of things we could point to that could alternatively lead to a win (or that could have gone worse and helped us otherwise lose).
Anyway, keep up the writing, I always appreciate it. Sorry for being overly critical of your criticism.
by VermeilLikesToCry on Dec 14, 2009 5:07 PM CST up reply actions
Bad decisions
Pioli…waiting too long to make moves in the off season. While other teams were scooping up assistants and FA players….the chiefs were trying to determine if we were going to keep Herm and waiting for Haley to finish his SB run….Bad decisions
Haley…Hiring Pendergast to run the D….Bad decision
Haley…firing Chan Gailey a week before the season started….Bad decision
Haley….deciding to take on the duties of the OC and the QB coach.Too much for a rookie head coach…Bad decision
Haley…cutting B Pollard and keeping M Brown…Pollard sure looks good in Houston…Bad decision
Haley/Pioli…..reaching for T Jackson in the first round…nobody saw him going 3rd overall…except Pioli/Haley….Bad decision?…TBD….
Haley Pioli….not addressing the O Line in the offseason. They sure have a knack for picking up every castoff from the Pats and Dolphins though……
Retaining LJ…enough said…bad decision
Haley…continuing to hand the ball to LJ for the first half of the season. He WOULD STILL be here if he had not acted like an idiot..AGAIN…would J Charles have gotten a chance to show us what he could do if LJ had not gotten released?….Bad decisions
Haley…play calling….we have a running game doing great things…but we still throw the ball 43 times…bad decisions….fake punts on our end of the field..bad decisions.
there is a lot more i could add, but im getting carpel tunnel from typing so much…
Even a first yr HC should not be making this many mistakes.
devil's advocate
Although i agree on some of your points, here are possible counterpoints for fun. In the end, everyone makes mistakes (and i’m glad i’ve heard Pioli and Haley admit to some, which i never heard Herm/Carl do), so just listing some doesn’t really put it in context. Anyway, here we go:
1) Hunt made everyone involved wait too long to fire Herm
2) Pendergast went to the super bowl last year
3) Gailey had a different system and philosophy. Better to install Haley’s vision now than later.
4) Whisenhunt did pretty good calling plays as a head coach his rookie season
5) Pollard sucks in coverage. Most “burns” in the NFL. Should be a LB, if he can cut it.
6) WAAAAY too early to judge T. Jackson. Way too early. He’s doing ok for a first year 3-4 DE.
7) Pick your poison. This team had a lot of needs. Hard to get free-agents to come to a 2 win team, and there weren’t that many quality OL in free-agency to start with. Should we have spent draft picks on OL instead? Maybe, but DL players usually take longer to develop.
8) Didn’t really have enough depth to not keep LJ… see current depth chart for proof…. Charles, then….what’s his face
9) Charles was reportedly slow in picking up the new offense and started getting more reps as he “got it”. Chicken and the Egg: Not a coincidence that they were then ready to get rid of LJ once they had someone else they felt more comfortable in.
10) With the power of hindsight, even the most acclaimed coaches can be ridiculed about play-calling (see recent Billecheck controversy)
11) cop out
12) qualitative statements are easy create
by VermeilLikesToCry on Dec 14, 2009 5:24 PM CST up reply actions
Hunt gave the decision making to Pioli right out of the gate
2)Pendergast defense sucked most of the yr.AZ was a 9-7 team that got hot down the stretch and Clancy got fired in AZ because of his defensive calls in the last 3 min of the SB.
3)you dont fire him a week before the season starts…you get on the same page with him
4)Whisenhunt called plays for half the season then handed over the reins to Haley
5)Who sucks worse?..Brown or Pollard?
6) I said To Be Determined
7)When the draft is loaded with OL like it was last yr, and you stretch for a D-Lineman that no draft experts projected to go before the15th pick and you just signed a 60 mil dollar QB…you might have screwed up
8)If you cut LJ, you save money and you can spend that saved money on another player. He has been a cancer for yrs now.
9)They were NOT ready to get rid of LJ, nor were they giving Charles or any other back ample opportunities to take over until LJ got his ass kicked off the team.
10)Bilecheck is a seasoned veteran coach with 3 SB rings. HE can make that call! And honestly I didnt knock him for making it. Manning was mounting a comeback and had just walked over his D 2-3 times. He chose to try and keep the ball away from him.
11) NOTED..lol
12) Qualitative statement….hhhmmmm….after 13 weeks, this team should be showing signs of improvement…not going backwards.
3) So you get your team familiar with an offense they will ditch the day after week sixteen? It should have been done earlier, but i still agree with ditching it if you are only using it for one year. It makes more sense for the long term chiefs.
5) Pollard was not part of the “right 53”. He was a good player, better than brown, but not that much better. To me the change doesn’t make too much of a difference because Brown is definitely improving his game as the season goes on.
7) Why does it matter what a draft expert thinks? Think of all the first round busts there have been that “draft experts” expected to be fantastic.
8) Years now as in two right? Well he did claim that he got his act together this off-season, so why not believe him and give him a shot? He has proven himself a good back, albeit not recently.
12) If you ask me or any optimist you will hear that the chiefs are improving. If you watch the games you can see this. Stats may prove otherwise but just by watching the chiefs play you can see how much they have improved over the weeks.
We fans need to have patience. i think that Patrick said it best in his fanpost titled Cement and cranes (or something of the sort)
swish
wow
haley is at fault for going on 4th downs..
dopped passes
and bad throws from cassel\
were the prob
by kcstevesportsfan on Dec 14, 2009 10:07 PM CST reply actions
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