Trading Glenn Dorsey for Aaron Curry
by wilson123 on Dec 11, 2009 11:09 PM CST
Email
Print
Alright, it's pretty clear that our DE situation is not working out. Our run D sucks, and T-Jack and Dorsey are showing no tangible evidence that they are positive contributing to the D. To be quite frank, I don't even know if they negatively affect the D either since there names are never called during games and neither has made one big play all year, not even one freaking TFL.
I know that T-Jack is here to stay. He is tall, a Pioli pick, and better suits the 3-4. Its pretty clear right now in Seattle that Aaron Curry doesn't seem to be working out in the 4-3 and they are speculating that he would be a better fit in the 3-4. We trade them Dorsey, giving them an ideal 4-3 DT with loads of potential. We get Curry back in return and now we have a building block at LB. The contracts should be pretty similar as well. Then we start Magee at the other end in the 3-4 who had shown flashes and we target someone like May in the draft giving us a top pick in each sector of the D. (DL, LB, S).
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
70 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Dorsey's name never gets called
Apparently you’re watching football on Saturday or something, because he’s turning into a pretty good DE
But how
can you say that? He has no TFL, no sacks, and our run D and overall D is horrible. What evidence do you have?
Do you have zero understanding of how defenses work?
If TyJack and Dorsey are doing their jobs correctly, they will very rarely ever make a tackle. In the 3-4 their job is to take up blockers and create lanes for the LB’s. So the fact that Dorsey has 47 tackles is fantastic, that means he is taking on blockers and still getting the RB, Dorsey also has 1 TFL and 2 passes defensed. So Dorsey isn’t the problem, he is the brightspot.
The Original member of the Ndamukong Suh bandwagon
by averagegatsby on Dec 11, 2009 11:47 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The point remains
The Chiefs are 32nd out of 32 teams.
I don’t agree with the poster’s trade, but noone on the defensive side of the ball is doing a good job.
Johnnie Morton: The Man. The Myth. The Legend.
by craig in calgary on Dec 11, 2009 11:57 PM CST up reply actions
No one?
That’s a pretty big statement saying no one is doing a good job. There’s a few pretty good players. Dorsey, Hali, and Flowers come right off the top of my mind.
Yes, the defense needs serious help, but at least there is a few player to build around.
For comparison
Richard Seymore’s career high for tackles was 57, in 2003. Dorsey will probably match or excede that this year. He does usually get 4-8 sacks per season though, so Dorsey has a way to go in that respect.
I’ll be interested to see how he does when we have a real NT next to him. I get the feeling that if NE decides against keeping Wilfork next season he’ll be franchised & traded to KC for a 2nd or 3rd round pick.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
Also Seymour is the gold standard when it comes to 3-4 DE. Dorsey is working his way there....
….and I agree it would be VERY interesting to see how good this front could be with a big block absorbing NT in the middle.
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
by BigRedChief on Dec 12, 2009 10:43 AM CST up reply actions
Ooh, this sounds fun
I say dorsey for a pick high enough to get Suh he looks like he could play anywhere on the d save the secondary.
by fishhooks on Dec 12, 2009 12:33 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
No.
In a 3-4, your linebackers are only as good at the d-line’s ability to eat up the o-line. Dorsey’s been pretty decent at that. Unfortunately, our LB’s rarely take the right angle or hit the hole with enough force to stop the run.
Trading for Aaron Curry would be upgrading the LB position and then not giving him a hole to stuff.
"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris
No.
Seriously, enough with the trade Dorsey talk. He’s fine. He’s doing his job. He’s only going to get better from here out. You don’t build your team by trading away your promising young first-round draft picks.
No
Alright, it’s pretty clear that our DE situation is not working out.
DE is probably the only position group (other than QB) where I think there will be no change heading into 2010. Haley and Pioli have even said in the past that this might be the strongest position group on the team.
I don't think it happens. but would I like Curry? Maybe. It's tempting.
But that’s not our biggest need so I doubt it happens. We need a safety. We need an o line and two amazing pass rushers. A great receiver and a strong RB (Lindell White) and we will be in the playoffs.
LeWhale White would just blow up to 400lbs in KC. Too much BBQ and Boulevard beer to be had...
….Give me Toby Gehadt from Stanford in the 2nd. Now that would be a helluva 1-2 punch.
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
by BigRedChief on Dec 12, 2009 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
Big red...
Think Gerhardt will make it to the 2nd??? He’s a Heisman candidate. I see him as late 1st round pick. If he falls to us with our early second round pick, Pioli has to consider him. Dude is a STUD!
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 12, 2009 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
Unfortunatly he has one fatal flaw as an NFL running back. He's white...
…I don’t know if being white makes you look slow or something (I know I do) but just you wait, he will go to the NFL combine and he will turn in a 4.7-4.9 40 (maybe slower), everyone will start to look at him as a fullback and he will drop like a rock. The NFL is obsessed with speed when that is probably not going to factor into Toby’s style of play. That being said, he is a monster RB and I want him on my team. He seemed to run harder in big games or when the game was on the line.
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
by BigRedChief on Dec 12, 2009 11:49 AM CST up reply actions
Why do you think
that WE can see that but NFL scouts can’t? Are we all just better talent evaluators than your average NFL scout or what?
Gerhart is a beast, for sure. Late 1st or early 2nd would be huge value and a VERY solid pick. Besides, he’ll probably run something like a 4.5-4.65 at the Combine, not sure why you think he’ll be running a 4.9+…?
Bask in the glory that is Kwame Harris. Poor Alex...
Well I said he would run a 4.7-4.9 which is not far from your 4.65....
…..I just don’t see the big time speed that the scouts look for on the field but the guy fights for and through every yard. I don’t know what he will be clocked at but that is my guess, upper 4s. I suppose he could get with Hussain Bolt and learn a few things about straight line speed and turn in a decent 40. “Created” 40s make overpaid busts out of players in my opinion.
Unfortunatlly the scouts are usually right, it’s not a racial thing, white running backs are not transitioning to the NFL very well which makes no sense to me, they just don’t. I do believe, with the ever changing NFL offensive schemes, the FB role will start to be incorrperated more as NFL OCs try to find new and inventive ways to get some yards. There are some very athletic FBs in the NFL making some plays week to week, McClain and Weever come to mind. Having a guy who can tote the rock, pick up a yard when you need it, catch a few balls and pick up a block is becoming a much needed position on the field. If that is the way to get a talent like Gerhardt on the field then sign me up.
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
Might be the wrinkle in Haleys Offense
More FB and less TE
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 12, 2009 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
Dorsey is just now coming of "NFL" age.
Come on, he is learning a new position and still developing into an NFL D-Lineman. I am highly impressed with his improvement. We DO need a monster NT. The entire D will improve with that because the QB pressures, sacks and TFLs will increase plus will free up LBs to shoot the gaps.
It isn’t that Dorsey is failing, it is theat all the rest of the supporting cast on the D hasn’t been able to work together. I’d love to get Curry, but not at the expense of one of our bright young stars of the future. Maybe D.J. and a draft pick, but we need Dorsey.
screw trading for curry
if we’re gonna throw out trades that will never happen, let’s send croyle and a 6th rounder to indy for manning, mark bradley for larry fitzgerald, derrick johnson for james harrison, etc, etc, etc…
1st of all, dorsey is progressing in a new position very well. 2nd, if, and it’s a big if, dorsey was a “bust”, then why would seattle trade the guy they just picked this year at number 4 overall?
i know! we can just trick everyone to give us their good or promising players for ours we're disappointed in...
The only players I hurt with my words are the ones who have an inflated opinion of their ability. I can't worry about that.
Bill Parcells
Knowledge is confidence. And confidence lets you play fast.
Bill Parcells
Why take Curry when you could have a young stud LB from the draft?
There is some serious talent this year. Curry would be too expensive to go get and trading Dorsey would just open up more holes and questions on this defense.
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
What?
Glen Dorsey and T Jack are doing a pretty good job doing what a 3-4 end is supposed to do. Trading for Curry makes absoloutely no sense at all, not when there are stud LB’s in draft potential already. No, sir, I don’t like it.
by BetterRedThanDead on Dec 12, 2009 10:59 AM CST reply actions
We already have an Aaron Curry, his name is Derrick Johnson.
/ leans elbow on the “hot button”
// gets under desk to avoid flying shrapnel
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
You have to be kidding
Hell no. Dorsey is playing his ass off and is getting better all the time. Give T-Jax at least until next year to start passing judgement. What? You don’t like that they’re not getting a bunch of sacks? Welcome to the 3-4! DE’s in a 3-4 don’t mean the same thing as a DE in a 4-3. Get used to is. Your OLB’s are the guys to watch in a 3-4. Look no further than Tamba Hali. But then again, I suppose you have a problem with Hali’s pass coverage too, right?!
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
Morning Buck
I thought you were the late nite host :) Now back to top to read :)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 12, 2009 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
Ha! The baby went to sleep and I stopped in for a lurk and found this post.
I read it alrigh! It compelled me to respond. Damned if this post didn’t sound like regurgitating last off-season’s objection to Dorsey. He’s one of a very few bright spots on defense and his play has quietly been damn good. I don’t get why we’re in this mind-set that any good players we have we need to ship off to other teams for something else. Glenn Dorsey is a foundation piece for the next decade and he’s playing like it. I don’t understand why people think he’s no good. Because he’s not getting sacks? C’mon, we’re going 3-4. Somebody needs to regurgitate Kalo and TC’s lessons from the offseason and do a comparative analysis.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
Lots of regurgitating going on:)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 12, 2009 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah. I just puked a little bit in my mouth.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
NO
trading Dorsey. I love the big guy with the loooong arms right here in KC
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
I agree.
Dorsey is gonna be a force. T-Jax will also be great in the future. Those guys will be the anchors for many years to come on this D. The pick I didn’t like last year was Magee in the 3rd round. I think we should have filled an area of greater need ( Center ) with that pick. A solid Center would have made all the difference this year. It’s a shame too. I would like Rudy to be the man but, he doesn’t seem to have the tools to play such a demanding position.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Dec 12, 2009 12:03 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I heard that
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
Rec
Magee was insurance I think. But a policy we can use in a 3-4 or a 4-3 if needed.
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 12, 2009 12:51 PM CST up reply actions
A pick many didn't like.
Considering how o-line turned out, not the best move for ’09, but possibly the best move for long-term, with 3 young, talented d-linemen they can develop in-house.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Thanks Steve.
I’m pretty sure you are right about that. That pick will probably pay off later. I still would have liked to have gotten a Center though.
I was real optimistic about what they might do to fix up C, RT and TE with some real stout.
And they didn’t.
Figured they could move McIntosh inside or find SOMEbody to move inside and give us something between the tackles. Not sure I liked the “RT or nothing” decision on McIntosh, who’s been RT-only, mostly because he’s sorta played some RT and always ends up on teams that are weak at the position. I’d’ve had him competing with Goff for RG, once I’d given up on him at RT.
And I thought it odd that they’d get a pair of DEs without grabbing a single NT, but I think the idea was that Tank or Edwards or Boone or… would give them the tackle play they needed. I thought that 2nd-rounder for Cassel had NT/C written all over it, and I was fully prepared to go with Eugene Monroe in the 1st.
Washington in the 4th was a pick for the future – a junior with upside, leaving early for other-than-big-money reasons.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Sorry to keep bagging on you man, but Dorsey is doing great.
The only other DT of note in his draft class (that I can remember) is Sedrick Ellis. Ellis has about half as many tackles as Dorsey in the same amount of time, and this is in a D-lineman-stat-friendly 4-3. This shows Dorsey is able to manage his blockers, shed them, and help at the point of attack.
I've been rapping for about seveteen years okay? I don't write my stuff anymore I just kick it from my head you know what I'm sayin? I can do that. No disrespect but that's how I am.
Yeah Buffalo wants to exploit or bad D running the ball.
We average 143 yards against per game on the ground.
Yet we give up on average a 60 yard TD per game.
So 143 yards costs us ONE TD. and we stuff the run most of the rest of the time.
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 12, 2009 2:47 PM CST up reply actions
I think most of us noticed this trend of consisent solid play,
followed by giving up one huge gash (which seems to open the failure-floodgates). Never looked at the numbers though. thanks.
This trend indicates sound play by the front 7, but the one time a guy slips through, DBs cant make the stop. This is a good argument for a safety next year.
I've been rapping for about seveteen years okay? I don't write my stuff anymore I just kick it from my head you know what I'm sayin? I can do that. No disrespect but that's how I am.
I would trade Dorsey with Morgan
To the Bucs for their two 2nd rounders and a third. The Bucs could draft Suh and with Dorsey, they would have two very good 4-3 guys on their line. We would get a much needed picks. We could sign Seymour until McGee is ready. In a mock I did I had us drafting LB Spikes, WR Arrelgious Benn and LB Eric Norwood with the picks from Tampa. Those three guys would help our team much more than Dorsey. Also want to trade Bowe to the Cowboys for their first and third, which we would grab DT Terrence Cody and SS Justin Woodall. Again two guys that will help us more than Bowe.
I am sure several will disagree, but you can’t fix a team this depleted without making major moves. We have to be major players in FA if we get an agreement signed I would sign LT McNeill,DE Seymour,WR Breaston and C Mawae
I realize there's no convincing you guys
But we’re not gonna trade Dorsey because he’s turning into a helluva 3-4 DE. Done and done.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
We're not gonna trade Bowe either
Both guys have bought into Haley’s program and at some point you have to stop looking at all of your good players from a trade value perspective and you have to build a team around them. They (Pioli and Haley) already threw this year away for the sake of development and analysis of players. Next year, the pressure begins to mount and Pioli and Haley have to start producing some results. Getting rid of you young, solid foundation players puts you right back where you started this year. They’re not gonna embark on another wholesale rebuilding year. They’re going to start going for more of a cumulative improvement by building from their existing foundation. While I realize that Pioli has been extremely active in terms of player transactions, many here on AP are going to end up VERY disappointed when they realize that he’s also somewhat conservative and his acquisitions are more on the boring side.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
Rec
Boring is good. Bowe is very young and Charles is too. If Cassel pans out we might have a Troika with a dominating Defense
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 12, 2009 5:52 PM CST up reply actions
Suits me just fine
How the hell else do we develop chemistry and cohesion? Ya know?! ;)
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
I'm there with you.
It’s been that kind of year. But I fully agree that people are bringing up all these old ideas from last February. Next thing you’re going to hear is that we should have hired a retread HC… sigh. Look these guys (Dorsey and Tjax) are doing what they are supposed to be and Dorsey is actually panning out to be doing more. That’s two guys, him and Hali, that switched positions, and not only proved all the nay sayers wrong by being able to do it, but are slowly surpassing what expectations we could have had.
Yes we need help. But those three are not position of need. As you and Steve have said, build around the foundational players we have. Don’t trash it and start all over again. Then we really will turn into The Lions or Browns.
This year is painful. But we do have some bright spots.
Build on those and next year won’t be the same old again.
by Eastcoastransplant on Dec 12, 2009 6:35 PM CST up reply actions
Build on that
And you have a solid core of players. Then you just keep adding to it as that core ages, but the Solid part stays. Without that solid core… well, big problems (see Chiefs after OLine got old and retired).
by Eastcoastransplant on Dec 12, 2009 6:37 PM CST up reply actions
But the thing is...
For how much we are paying them and their draft position, they both need to be Richard Seymour to justify the pay and the how high they were taken in the draft. I agree, right now, they are servicable 3-4 ends, but in no way shape or form are they great and going to the Pro Bowl anytime soon. They need to be stand-out star players to justify the pay and they just aren’t that right now and there is nothing tangibly that someone could bring up to say that they are doing great and are on the road to stardom. Paying them like we are right now severly hampers our ability in the future to obtain those star players that this team lacks that are really going to make an impact and game-changing plays.
they are getting paid that simply because that's how the slotting system works. top 5 picks never live up to their contracts in their first couple seasons at least
The only players I hurt with my words are the ones who have an inflated opinion of their ability. I can't worry about that.
Bill Parcells
Knowledge is confidence. And confidence lets you play fast.
Bill Parcells
And yes..
I know the role of a 3-4 DE is to take up blockers, etc, etc… Which basically means that they are typically not the stars on the D. The problem with the way our D is currently set up is that, given how much T-Jack and Dorsey are being paid, they need to make an impact at that position along the lines of Richard Seymour or else they are dissapointments. You don’t draft players #3 and #5 just to take up blockers and make 3-4 tackles a game. You can find these players in the 4th and 5th rd.
You do if they facilitate numbers from others.
You can’t say the picks have been big successes, yet, because the defense hasn’t been dominant as a unit, yet. But at this point, the only time I see a lone o-lineman sustain a block against one of our front 3, it’s against Edwards. I haven’t seen anybody enjoy much success trying to wall off a lane between Dorsey and Edwards, but between Edwards and Jackson, it happens with some frequency, with Jackson sometimes vacating the lane to keep it from getting outside of him, but nobody filling to the inside.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
I disagree about that...
It won’t be long before our 3 man front is performing like a 4 man front. (depending on what we do at NT) The bookends of Dorsey and T-Jax will be a force and I guarantee we will have the the best 3-4 line in the league within a couple of years.
I also have to say, Ron Edwards has been a MUCH better player than I gave him credit for. Too bad he’s not a few years younger. We would be set.
You didn't really say anything...
In that statement though. It was more like wishful thinking.
Edwards responded to the conditioning and coaching.
But I wouldn’t say he’s playing like a dominant NT.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
So
Why not sign Seymour, and trade Dorsey. It has been mentioned that Dorsey is no “Richard Seymour”.
This team has a major lack of talent. When we play Denver and San Diego; if you take our 22 starters and put them against their 22, how many guys do we have that are better? Not many….maybe 2.
I can’t believe that my fellow fans think that our guys are just going to improve that much. We have how many guys off the street on this team starting? Come on, it is way worse than you all are thinking.
Major moves improve teams like ours; just look at the Saints.
I think we all see pretty much the same thing.
I think we all want to see a short path to success, but just making a kazillion trades or throwing money at FAs is not a recipe for sustained success, and it’s no guarantee of success in the shorter term, either.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
This is the probelm
Dorsey is an average 3-4 DE, he could be much better in a 4-3 (which is his trade value) Bowe is slightly above average WR, he could be better on a better team (which is his high trade value).
I really want someone to tell me a plan, I have propsed one- many have dogged it, but few have stated what we should do. Everybody wants to wait——for what i don’t know.
You may be right. But most of us are drinkin' the Dorsey kool-aid.
What seems lacking most is NT, and until it’s settled, it’s tough to judge the LBs.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
There is an "Aaron Curry" in every draft!
Dorsey is solid where he is and there is no reason to break that foundation of the line. Alex Magee might become great, but why take that chance when you have a proven starter.
Linebackers are plenty in the draft and we will find what we need.
Yep. And if the other groups are SET, you can likely find a LB who fits well into a dominating defense in FA or UDFA.
The point is that there are plenty of good LBs out there. Being a step quicker at LB helps, but it’s rarely decisive. A dominating defense can be stocked with mostly journeyman LBs if the DL and DB groups are dominant. Much easier to compensate for average-to-good LBs with exceptionally good DL/DBs than it is to compensate for sucky DL/DBs with one or two high-dollar LBs.
The irony is that when you take this approach, everyone starts falling in man-love with your LBs and congratulating you for your genius in finding great LBs that everyone else overlooked.
Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
SBNation.com Recent Stories
In Association With
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
