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There is an Argument For the Chiefs Coach To Continue Calling Plays

Yesterday, Kansas City Chiefs head coach Todd Haley made his most telling statements to date regarding his future as the Chiefs offensive coordinator and playcaller. He said he believes and has experienced that the team operates most efficiently when there is an offensive and defensive coordinator, which would allow him to be involved in the overall gameday management instead of being cooped up in calling plays.

Adam Teicher of the Kansas City Star appeared on the Morning Rush with Roger Twibell today and said he fails to see the logic in removing Haley as the playcaller.

Star-divide

"Todd Haley got this job and he's been promoted throughout his years in the NFL because of his ability to work with offenses, call plays and draw up game plans," Teicher said. 

"Do you want to take him out of that?"

The man makes a point. 

Haley's name entered the 2009 coaching pool because of his immense success with the 2008 Arizona Cardinals and their Super Bowl run. He was hired because he was good at his job, which in large part entailed calling the plays on offense.

He was regarded as one of the better playcallers in the league while with the Cardinals so it's unlikely, I think, the Chiefs can hire anyone out there who can A) call plays better than Haley and B) successfully create Haley's vision of the offense.

"I know he's got a thousand other jobs as a head coach but this is what he does well, or has done well," Teicher continued.

Teicher also says that despite Haley's words yesterday, it will be difficult for him when push comes to shove to actually let someone else assume responsibility of the playcalling.

"Will his personality and emotion allow him to step back and say, 'Okay, this offense is your baby and I'm going to step out of it. Through thick and thin you're our guy'. I don't think he can do that. 

"I think he thinks he can, and intends to do those things, I just don't think he can."

Teicher also notes that this gets into a broader question of how the NFL hires its coaches, which you can listen to courtesy of 610 Sports.

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Let us not forget that Haley only called plays for one year in his career

So calling him one of the better playcallers in the league with an awesome veteran QB like Kurt Warner throwing to superstars in Fitzgerald and Boldin isn’t all that impressive to me.

Having said that, I like the design of some of Haley’s plays. As an offensive minded head coach, I have no problem whatsoever with him having his own playbook and being heavily involved in drawing up the gameplans.

My problem is that he should be heavily involved in drawing up gameplans for BOTH sides of the ball. From what we have seen on the field, he appears to have completely abdicated his authority in running the defense to Pendergast because he is having to dink around with the offense while the defense is on the field.

Some coaches have the ability to balance play calling duties with managing the team. I don’t think Haley has enough experience in doing EITHER ONE to be trying to do both right now.

by ChiefDJ on Dec 1, 2009 7:17 PM CST reply actions  

I agree that Haley needs to be involved in the defensive side of things

Dispite the fact that he is an offensive guy, his personality lends itself toward having a good defense.

I am also ok with someone else coming in and Haley still having a hand in it. There are a lot of coaches that do that. I am not sure if there are really that many that just say, here you go…its yours and don’t bother me with it (not sure).

I disagree with the arguement that Haley might not be that good of a play caller because he had talent on the Cardinals team. I don’t think there is a play caller past or present that is good with bad talent or average talent. Everyone that was ever considered “good” had talent to work with.

Bewsaf

by Bewsaf on Dec 1, 2009 7:28 PM CST up reply actions  

I didn't say he wasn't a good play caller

I’m just saying that the guys that the Cardinals have plus being under the guidence of an EXPERIENCED playcaller in Weisenhunt would make even an average guy look good.

Just saying one year with those weapons and that mentor does not make me believe without a doubt that he totally knows what he’s doing.

by ChiefDJ on Dec 1, 2009 7:34 PM CST up reply actions  

He does have three wins

at this point with not all that great talent, one more than last year. I know it is not great improvement in wins, and losses, but it is improvement. He does deserve credit for the progress that is being made.

Good move by the Chiefs org, glad to see LJ gone.

by Eric Allen on Dec 1, 2009 7:36 PM CST up reply actions  

And they do keep fighting all game.

Good move by the Chiefs org, glad to see LJ gone.

by Eric Allen on Dec 1, 2009 7:37 PM CST up reply actions  

and he did hire

the best darn water bottle specialist for timeouts…averaging almost 20 squirts per timeout here in mid season!

Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!

I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.

by Lanier63 on Dec 1, 2009 7:38 PM CST up reply actions  

But can that water boy get some sacks?:)

Good move by the Chiefs org, glad to see LJ gone.

by Eric Allen on Dec 1, 2009 7:40 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

of groceries, yes!

Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!

I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.

by Lanier63 on Dec 1, 2009 7:40 PM CST up reply actions  

lol!

Good move by the Chiefs org, glad to see LJ gone.

by Eric Allen on Dec 1, 2009 7:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Your point about him doing it for just one year is noted

But while you point to Whisenhunt’s experience, remember he’s the one who handed the job off to Haley and Haley’s the one who did more with it.

by Joel Thorman on Dec 1, 2009 7:36 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

Recd, nicely said.

Good move by the Chiefs org, glad to see LJ gone.

by Eric Allen on Dec 1, 2009 7:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Joel sounded like a judge!

your honor….

Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!

I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.

by Lanier63 on Dec 1, 2009 7:39 PM CST up reply actions  

haley took over playcalling duties halfway through '07

so he has more than just one year plus there is much more to being an offensive coordinator than calling plays. warner was considered washed up when the cardinals signed him and fitzgerald wasn’t a super star until last year in the last half of the season and playoffs. it’s easy to say anyone could have succeeded in that scenario but i think that line of thinking is flawed and short sided

The only players I hurt with my words are the ones who have an inflated opinion of their ability. I can't worry about that.
Bill Parcells

Knowledge is confidence. And confidence lets you play fast.
Bill Parcells

by kcguy on Dec 1, 2009 7:46 PM CST up reply actions  

With

Haley gone… and basically the same offense in place are the Cardinals doing any worse??? The offense is basically the same and the defense has improved without the guy Haley decided needed to come with him….. I’m not real convinced Haley did anymore with it than Whisenhunt would have.

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 7:52 PM CST up reply actions  

I do not agree with your views on most of this,

but I do agree Pendergast needs to go.

Good move by the Chiefs org, glad to see LJ gone.

by Eric Allen on Dec 1, 2009 7:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Actually

They have fallen from 3rd to 10th and are scoring 3 fewer points/game.

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by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 7:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Hey, I am not an overrated former cornerback!:)

Good move by the Chiefs org, glad to see LJ gone.

by Eric Allen on Dec 1, 2009 8:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Lol

Ok ok. You’re a pretty boy announcer then. ;)

Better?

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 8:08 PM CST up reply actions  

I hardly think you can attribute three points per game to the

change in Offensive coordinator… they’ve been better where it counts the most… they have a better record this year than last

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 8:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Lets see if they make it to the superbowl though.

Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes; after that, who cares?! He's a mile away and you've got his shoes!

by SuperTurtle on Dec 1, 2009 8:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Eh...

Don’t know if that’s really fair… There are two juggernauts in the NFC that weren’t there last year… Namely Minn and New orleans

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 8:27 PM CST up reply actions  

You said they've been better when it counts the most

And to me that is playoff time.

Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes; after that, who cares?! He's a mile away and you've got his shoes!

by SuperTurtle on Dec 1, 2009 8:28 PM CST up reply actions  

I guess

We’ll just have to wait and see….

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 8:31 PM CST up reply actions  

I guess

Lol, 3 pts a game is a big deal…thats the diff betweens a win and a loss most weeks. Also, the year isnt over yet, the record isnt better or worse…Also, I mean, the guy was awesome calling plays in the playoffs, but you dont give him credit. Fairly sure you are not speaking with an open mind….

by The IT Guy on Dec 2, 2009 8:13 AM CST up reply actions  

The D is much better.

You asked if they were doing any worse without Haley on O.

The answer is yes.

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by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 8:34 PM CST up reply actions  

And the average margin of victory in the NFL

is less than 3 points btw. Their D is giving up 7 fewer points/game. The improvement in record is due a significant improvement on D. Not a minimal decrease in Offensive production as you propose.

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by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 8:37 PM CST up reply actions  

I wasn't proposing that they had a better record

because of a minimal decrease in offense… just suggesting that The loss of Haley hasn’t made much of a difference… They are averaging 8 fewer yards per game this year than last… I think it’s pretty obvious that Haley wasn’t as important to the team’s success as many have made him out to be….

However… In all fairness… I did say I’d lay off of Haley as long as he won more than two games…. So I’m not going to get into too much of this… I just think the offensive difference is negligible

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 8:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Yards are a completely skewed and over-rated sats

And I’m not even proposing that Haley is a good HC or will ever be one. I just see the trend of trying to discount past accomplishments as evidence of current failure. It’s not fair, not true and not necessary.

Those who don’t like Haley will find pleanty of ammunition in decisions he has made as HC. No need to try an discount the success he had as an OC. You say the O in AZ hasn’t fallen off much. It has. So you back off that claim by saying that all that matters is wins, which is fine, but the numbers indicate that has much more to do with D than O. Then you switch to an irrelevant stats to support your original claim.

It’s ok to not like him as a HC but recognize his success as OC.

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by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 8:52 PM CST up reply actions  

The issue I have isn't a new one...

I’m not all that willing to give a guy credit when the entire time he was calling plays he had Kurt Warner, Fitz, And Boldin…..

I think Mike Martz is a good example of not getting to Wrapped up in an “offensive Genius”…. By god he was great when he had Warner and Faulk and Holt… but didn’t prove himself afterward…

A difference of Three points per game is no different than me talking about total yardage…

You realize that when you said they fell from 3rd to 10th that, refers to total yards… right? it was a good enough stat for that point… but not when you talk about a difference of just 8 yards per game…. ?

I’m just not all that impressed with “His” success, because I’m not convinced that it was him, independent of other factors that made the offense go.

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 9:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Nope

3rd to 10th is in points not yards. Feel free to look it up.

And “A difference of Three points per game is no different than me talking about total yardage…”

it’s completely different. Points win games. Yards do not.

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 9:05 PM CST up reply actions  

If you take

The standard deviation of the number of points they scored last year…. the standard deviation is less than 2 which shows it’s more likely to be a statistical anomaly than it is likely to be a measuring stick of ability….

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 9:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Ummm

you can’t apply the rule of 3 standard deviations to a data pool that is already statistically insignificant.

You would have to apply your measure to the entire pool of points scored in the modern era to apply that standard.

The fact is that over 25% of all NFL games are decided by 3 points or less. All other things being equal if you score 3 fewer points/game you can expect a 4 game swing in your record.

Why is it so hard to admit the guy had success as an OC. He lead the 3rd ranked O last year.

You have all kinds of ammunition for your contention that he isn’t a good HC. Run with that stuff. This stuborn assertion that he wasn’t a good OC only serves to discredit other arguements you may make.

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by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 9:45 PM CST up reply actions  

So Arizona is scoring 3 less points per game...

how many points is their defense allowing less per game… If its 3 less, couldn’t that make this entire argument moot?

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Dec 1, 2009 9:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Nope

“All other things being equal”

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by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 10:03 PM CST up reply actions  

That's basically the point that I'm making...

3 points per game is statistically insignificant…. as is 8 yards per game….. meaning Haley ’s contributions were as well

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 9:59 PM CST up reply actions  

No

The data pool is too small to apply a standard involving deviations.

3 points per game is very significant as it is the difference between winning and losing a game.

Rather it’s 8 yards or 1000 yards doesn’t matter. It’s the measure that’s irrelevant.

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by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 10:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Three points

per game isn’t significant when it’s shown to be less than 2 SD… simply an anomaly… especially when considering that yards produced are less dependent on special teams and defense than points per game… and the fact that they’re only moving the ball 8 less yards per game lends itself to the idea that it’s a statistical hiccup rather than anything meaningful….

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 10:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Ok fine

Haley was clearly a shitty OC and they just anomolied their way into all those points and that trip to the SB.

Should we lynch him now or wait until gameday?

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by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 10:20 PM CST up reply actions  

It's not about lynching him...

I just don’t think he did any better than any average OC would have…..

and like I said earlier… I’ve promised to take it a bit easier on the dude…. He really pissed me off with that 53 guys off the street comment… and by god he won his three games…. I’m not saying all of the production was an anomaly… just the three point swing…

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 10:42 PM CST up reply actions  

I know

but that lynching thing was a funny image to me so I typed it out.

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by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 10:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh and Martz always produced points as an OC

he was just a completely fail HC.

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 9:06 PM CST up reply actions  

He achieved those results

because of an extremely talented cast of players….

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 9:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Yah like all that talent he had in Detroit

Seriously. You do understand we’re not in an arguement over HAley being a good HC right? It’s just silly trying to discount his success as OC.

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 9:33 PM CST up reply actions  

The last time I checked...

he wasn’t too successful in detroit….. probably because he didn’t have faulk and holt and warner….

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 10:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Yep

He had virtually no talent on O.

And yet he Os were average. 16th in 2007. 22ppg

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by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 10:10 PM CST up reply actions  

He had all of those number 1 receivers though

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by averagegatsby on Dec 1, 2009 10:11 PM CST up reply actions  

lol

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by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 10:20 PM CST up reply actions  

I think you'd have a hard time convincing too many

people that Mike martz deserves much credit for those st louis offenses after seeing his body of work later….

As Far as haley… we have seen him call plays for a year and a half, and he had a ton of talent…

Haley has been our OC and play caller with much less talent.. yet our O hasn’t improved over last years… I just have a hard time believing that the success was because of him….

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 10:16 PM CST up reply actions  

pretty hard to make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

If you ask me, the offense looks much better than it did in the beginning of the season, and aside from a few turnovers last week we really did move the ball on the Chargers. So if they continue to improve, I think the offense will definitely be better than it was last year… Especially since Larry isn’t running into the backs of our O-lineman.

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Dec 1, 2009 10:23 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree...

I don’t think anyone would have had much success with the group of talent we had here… I just don’t think we can credit haley with as much as some people would like to

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 10:26 PM CST up reply actions  

I think its too early to give credit...

If this offense is rolling next year, then obviously the groundwork was laid this year. And if Arizona regresses a little more next year, then obviously his absence could be a major point of that.

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Dec 1, 2009 10:28 PM CST up reply actions  

There's so much to take into consideration

in football that it’s hard to isolate any one contribution… if they regress a next year it could be kurt warner being 1000 years old and they may not be able to keep boldin… who knows… the guy won his three games… so I’ll leave him be

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 10:43 PM CST up reply actions  

There's nothing wrong with his body of work as OC

You are right that I would have a hard time convincing people of that. People choose to ignore facts all the time.

As far as Haley…where are you even going with this? What is the point in ignoring the success he had in AZ. What is the value in not giving him credit for it when everyone on that team does give him credit? Based on your standard, talent is the only thing that matters. Why do teams even have coaches?

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by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 10:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Talent is not the only thing..

but is by far the most important thing…

This was a response to joel stating that whisenhunt handed the responsibility of playcalling off to Haley and he did more with it…

I just don’t believe he did any more than any other OC in the leauge would have, with the talent around him…. I was using the lack of dropoff in offensive play from last year to this, as evidence that most offensive coordinators in this league would have had the same success with the same talent…

He’s been lauded for his playcalling ability, and got a job largely based on a Offense that would have been good regardless of who was calling the plays.. so I feel it’s undeserved adulation.

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 10:30 PM CST up reply actions  

I can understand that

I just disagree strongly that anyone else would have had success. Many people would have. Others would have failed.

My hope is that Pioli is smart enough that he didn’t hire Haley based on the production of his O in AZ. that would be horribly short sighted. I hope it’s based on other qualities that he sees in Haley that he has also seen in the successful HCs he has been around.

I really hate being in the middle of the “kool aiders” and “haters” around here. Inevitably each side places me in the other’s camp. Personally, I have consistently said that I really have no idea if he’ll work out. I don’t have enough info on the guy to have formed a solid opinion. I really don’t think any of us will know until about year 3. So picking a side now seems so pointless to me.

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 10:38 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't care what camp

you’re in…. and frankly… because football has so many interdependent pieces we’ll probably never really know what kind of contribution he made….it just seems like all of the people who love Haley point to all the success he had in AZ… it irritates me a bit.

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 10:45 PM CST up reply actions  

That's obvious

And when they praise everything he does I get on them for it. I just believe in credit and criticism should be given when due. Not as blankets for all situations.

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by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 10:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Correct

But he didn’t provide the amunition for the criticism he’s receiving by having success during the limited opportunity.

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by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 10:26 PM CST up reply actions  

My "Ammunition"

is that the Arizona Offense is roughly the same as last year despite Haley’s absence.

There is no all encompassing stat that can measure offensive efficiency in football because everyone is dependent on everyone else….

I don’t think it’s wrong to say a 3 point change and an 8 yard per game change is insignificant especially considering how everything in football is interdependent…

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 10:34 PM CST up reply actions  

We're splitting hairs on 3 points.

I really do think you should let go of yards as a valid measure. Hell, look at the Chiefs. When do we get most of our yards? When we’re behind. We start passing the ball like crazy against prevent Ds.

Why are we in that situation? Horrible failure to score points.

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by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 10:42 PM CST up reply actions  

but they're relatively consistent...

and good offenses tend to put up a lot of yards…. even with us putting all of our yards up late when we’re behind… it’s no different than last year…

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 10:46 PM CST up reply actions  

It wasn't a matter of switching

arguments… I don’t believe any of them are any less valid… rather it’s adding to the arguments…

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 9:04 PM CST up reply actions  

It's not that they aren't valid.

Simply incorrect.

Again:

You say the AZ O hasn’t fallen off. It has.
You use yards as your standard. Yards are irrelevant.
You claim wins as evidence of not missing Haley. Which ignores the improvement on D.

It’s ok. Haley was a good OC for AZ. They scored a ton and went to the SB. Doesn’t mean you have to like him as HC of the Chiefs. I just hate to see a man not getting credit where it’s due.

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 9:09 PM CST up reply actions  

So in your world...

to win an argument all I have to say is that points are irrelevant… you can score a ton of points and not win a bunch of games….???? You claim a negligible difference in points as your evidence of them missing Haley…. which ignores the fact that his replacement is doing as well as he did…..

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 9:27 PM CST up reply actions  

to win an argument all I have to say is that points are irrelevant


No. You can’t win with a silly arguement. You may have noticed that they use points to decide games. Not yards.

you can score a ton of points and not win a bunch of games


True. But you wouldn’t consider that a failure on the part of the OC.

You claim a negligible difference in points as your evidence of them missing Haley…. which ignores the fact that his replacement is doing as well as he did


we have been over this. (Please try to pay attention) His replacement is not doing as well as Haley. They are scoring 3 points fewer/game. That’s about a 12% drop in production.

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 9:36 PM CST up reply actions  

wow formatting fail

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 9:36 PM CST up reply actions  

This obviously isn't going anywhere...

I assert that a 3 point per game difference and 8 yards per game are negligible. And you say it isn’t…. not much to argue about past that….

Points can be affected special teams and Defense in terms of turnovers and field position,

But yards are only produced by the offense….

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 10:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Yards are effected by game situations

If you have success scoring, you obtain a lead and are able to run the ball in an effort to win the game. Running is inherently less productive from a yardage standpoint than passing.

Teams who are high scoring routinely “under perform” in yardage.

It’s not going anywhere only because you refuse to recognize that how many yards isn’t the point. It’s that using yards as a gauge is flawed.

Stating that 3 ppg is negligible isn’t a stalemate. It’s refusal to recognize evidence in an attempt to win your arguement.

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 10:14 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

looking at

the cardinals from last year… weren’t exactly running up and down the field….

They’re running the ball much more this year… is it because wells is a better back? is it because they’re playing with the lead more often???

If so than their offense SHOULD be less productive because of the increased number of running attempts. But it really hasn’t been any less productive.

Using yards is no less flawed than using points in a game…

It’s hard to take anything as independent in football, so unless there is some huge obvious statistically change small changes don’t mean a whole lot.

The only thing that teams are ultimately judged on is games won and lost. I agree that most of it can be attributed to an improved defense but I still argue that the offense is roughly the status qou

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 10:25 PM CST up reply actions  

(y'all are intense)

Things I have learned from Arrowhead Pride...
1.) A turtle can win a WR spot in preseason
2.) Everybody loves Kool-Aid
3.) Ochocinco is now not the only player to be referred to by his # (2.7)
4.) Its okay to cry because Vermeil does
5.) You (still) play to win the game
And no matter what CHIEF fans are the greatest!

by GanjaChief on Dec 1, 2009 10:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Even if it is status quo

It’s not (but I am tired of talking about it) That does nothing to discredit the success he had there. At worst, it means that Whisenhunt is doing as good a job as Haley did.

You’re right that teams are judged by wins and losses. W/L is decided by points scored. Last I check no team in all of NFL history has been credited with a win for gaining more yards.

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 10:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes, he had success...

But I don’t think it’s all on his own merit… I just think he get’s too much credit for the offense in Arizona last year…

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 10:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Fair enough

Some people just refuse to give him any credit for it. Which is horribly unfair.

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by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 10:43 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not saying he deserves

nothing… I just think he gets too much…. sometimes my criticism gets a little out of hand….

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 10:47 PM CST up reply actions  

I know

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 10:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Just to point out ...

3ppg is negligible because their improved defense (allowing 7 less points per game) has changed how they play offense.

When you have a defense that is capable of slowing down the opponent, you’re more likely to play a ball-control offense, including running more time off of the clock with running plays rather than stretching the field with passing plays like they did last year.

Thus, the decline in points scored can just as easily be attributed to a difference in their approach to the game as it can be laid at the feet of either Haley or the Cards’ current offensive coordinator.

by JacinB on Dec 2, 2009 11:03 AM CST up reply actions  

The real difference...

like you said… is on D… wonder if there’s a correlation with the loss of pendergast and an improved D… yet this is the guy we thought should be our D coordinator???

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 8:47 PM CST up reply actions  

And that was clearly a mistake

and a good arguement for not trusting Haley as a HC decision maker.

progress ;)

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 8:52 PM CST up reply actions  

The D is better?

Then that tells me we got the bum deal with Pendergast.

by TXChiefan on Dec 1, 2009 9:06 PM CST up reply actions  

we already knew that

WHEN THEY FIRED HIM. Right?

Air Cassel - approved for takeoff

by kabrink on Dec 1, 2009 9:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, yeah.

We knew that. But there were a lot of people here (and, apparently, and 1 Arrowhead Drive) who didn’t.

by JacinB on Dec 2, 2009 11:04 AM CST up reply actions  

still back to the lateness of Pioli hiring by Hunt

Recall how we hired Gibbs and Pendergast and it was quite a while before they named anyone the DC. So, it seemed pretty clear even then that Pioli/Haley probably weren’t very enamoured with whom they had ended up with. I think they knew it but didn’t have a whole lot of choice.

The real question is how do you change it after the season in a classy way. I guess in the end, I really don’t care if it’s classy – just get me a real DC!!

Air Cassel - approved for takeoff

by kabrink on Dec 2, 2009 2:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Is that because Haley is a better play caller

Or because Wisenhunt was able to focus on being a head coach and Haley an OC instead of one man trying to do both?

Thats sort of the point.

by ChiefDJ on Dec 1, 2009 8:00 PM CST up reply actions  

I would argue it's both

Whisenhunt recognized that Haley was the better option for calling plays (due to both talent and role) and that the right decision for a HC to make is to let go of that responsibility.

They are not mutually exclusive.

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 8:44 PM CST up reply actions  

While Pitt fans castigate THEIR OC, it could be argued that real offensive genius (or at least competence) won the SB with the WORST O-Line ever to win the big game.

I don’t think there is a play caller past or present that is good with bad talent or average talent.

That’s one of the things that puzzled me going into the PIT game. Of course, since PIT lost that game, all the Arians haters feel justified in their views.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Dec 1, 2009 9:17 PM CST up reply actions  

I think your on the right track DJ

I believe Haley could help plan the offensive game plan through the week and turn 95% of the play calling over to an established OC that believes in Haleys system. Same goes for the Defensive game plan. But during the game, he HAS got to be connected to both sides of the ball to give each situation his utmost attention and work through the tougher situations. One man can probably do well, but two or three men working together can most assuredly achieve a higher level of success.

Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!

I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.

by Lanier63 on Dec 1, 2009 7:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Also I think hiring an OC as early as January

will give Haley and the new OC almost three good months of planning a scheme that both fits the team we have, and will have, and our best chance of winning.

Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!

I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.

by Lanier63 on Dec 1, 2009 7:36 PM CST up reply actions  

If they are going to bring in an oc,

why not now? He does not have to start in the gameplanning as of yet, but could help with the draft class on the offensive side of the ball.

Good move by the Chiefs org, glad to see LJ gone.

by Eric Allen on Dec 1, 2009 7:39 PM CST up reply actions  

I heard that on AP before?

lol

Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!

I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.

by Lanier63 on Dec 1, 2009 7:39 PM CST up reply actions  

I have not been around a lot lately,

did you do a fanpost on that?

Good move by the Chiefs org, glad to see LJ gone.

by Eric Allen on Dec 1, 2009 7:40 PM CST up reply actions  

not really

I just mentioned it the other day when the news was breaking on Weis being fired

Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!

I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.

by Lanier63 on Dec 1, 2009 7:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Ahh, I see.

Good move by the Chiefs org, glad to see LJ gone.

by Eric Allen on Dec 1, 2009 7:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Thought you were on your way up

with some Memphis barbecue to watch a game on the flatscreen?:)

Good move by the Chiefs org, glad to see LJ gone.

by Eric Allen on Dec 1, 2009 7:44 PM CST up reply actions  

I need to

just cant seem to find time…

Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!

I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.

by Lanier63 on Dec 1, 2009 7:45 PM CST up reply actions  

I know the feeling,

then there is this Christmas thing, kids want gifts, can you believe it?:)

Good move by the Chiefs org, glad to see LJ gone.

by Eric Allen on Dec 1, 2009 7:46 PM CST up reply actions  

been going on for years the way I hear it

and Fathers day…a tie? are they serious? Could have spent another $3 bucks and at least got me a Chiefs tie!

Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!

I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.

by Lanier63 on Dec 1, 2009 7:48 PM CST up reply actions  

You actually get something for fathers day?!:)

Good move by the Chiefs org, glad to see LJ gone.

by Eric Allen on Dec 1, 2009 7:50 PM CST up reply actions  

wife gave me a fat lip once!

Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!

I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.

by Lanier63 on Dec 1, 2009 8:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Who is the second, Carthon?

Good move by the Chiefs org, glad to see LJ gone.

by Eric Allen on Dec 1, 2009 7:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Point made,

but Gailey has nothing to do with the team now, or the future.

Good move by the Chiefs org, glad to see LJ gone.

by Eric Allen on Dec 1, 2009 7:43 PM CST up reply actions  

I wonder if he'll find a new gig in college again?

Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!

I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.

by Lanier63 on Dec 1, 2009 7:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Notre Dame?

Good move by the Chiefs org, glad to see LJ gone.

by Eric Allen on Dec 1, 2009 7:45 PM CST up reply actions  

really???

I think he’d do alright at ND…. he technically meets the requirements swarbick set down…

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 8:26 PM CST up reply actions  

alright isn't good enough...

Chan did okay at Georgia Tech, and I guess his D-Coordinator there (Tenuta) is already at ND… But like I said he only did alright.

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Dec 1, 2009 8:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah..

I think the Weis firing is a clear message that okay isn’t good enough… I just can’t think of anyone that has been discussed that I’d really want right now…I mean other than Paul Johnson… let’s bring back the triple option….

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 9:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Except for the future...

There is little to do with a new Offensive Coordinator in the middle of the season. I see waiting 6-8 weeks and making the right decision instead of rushing into making a decision now.

4-5 weeks isn’t really going to put much experience on an Offensive Coordinator’s hands with this team. Plus you have to pay 2 people(plus Haley) to be the offensive coordinator. It just doesn’t make sense to do it now on any level.

by ravenhawk on Dec 1, 2009 8:26 PM CST up reply actions  

I am torn,

if we get an oc, will he get the offense he wants, or will it be to what the oc wants to run. I think that possibility of infighting amongst the coaches could disrupt the whole team. With him being a young hc, a proven playcaller could immensely help him though.

Good move by the Chiefs org, glad to see LJ gone.

by Eric Allen on Dec 1, 2009 7:22 PM CST reply actions  

In all fairness...

Anyone who gets in will probably incorporate their offensive philosophies with Haley. Lets not forget these guys are all smart so they can definitely evolve.

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Dec 1, 2009 8:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Do you mean

not looking at our O as some stagnant playbook that can only be clutched by one gatekeeper lest it be corrupted by the input of multiple minds?

Blasphemy!!

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 8:13 PM CST up reply actions  

You make a great point.

BRING IN THE FLYING WEDGE!!!

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Dec 1, 2009 8:16 PM CST up reply actions  

He'd still gameplan and get his plays

Some OCs are just puppets. Remember Mike Solari? He may have called down the plays, but it was all under Herm’s thumb. I remember when Herm was asked if Solari would be free to call his own plays and Herm said (paraphrasing), “He’ll call the plays, but he knows what I expect.”

I’d expect the same for Haley’s first hire, unless it’s some huge name with a similar philosophy.

by VermeilLikesToCry on Dec 1, 2009 7:23 PM CST reply actions  

Very few offensive coordinators can run their own show independent of the head coach

Only the most succesful operate on their own island.

The head coach is the boss and every head coach contributes to drawing up the game plan and will overrule certain plays he doesn’t like.

by ChiefDJ on Dec 1, 2009 7:28 PM CST up reply actions  

One That has always seemed to work on his own on an island...

is Norm Chow… I can’t think of any Coaching tree relationships… but I’d love to see that guy running the offensive show nexty year….

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 7:59 PM CST up reply actions  

I dunno...

He did good but not great in Tennessee. Seems to me his game is more suited to college.

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Dec 1, 2009 8:12 PM CST up reply actions  

He helped

vince young win ROTY and after he left… Young’s production completely dropped off the face of the planet…. Just a name I thought I’d throw out…. no real chance of him even coming here

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 8:33 PM CST up reply actions  

There is much more to an offensive coordinator's position than play calling.
“The offensive coordinator is generally in charge of managing all offensive players and assistant coaches, of designing specific offensive plays, of developing a general offensive game plan, and of calling the plays for the offense during the game. An offensive coordinator typically has a number of assistant coaches working under him; usually coaches primarily responsible for the various offensive positions on the team”

So even if Haley keeps calling plays during game time much is off of his back.

by ravenhawk on Dec 1, 2009 7:27 PM CST reply actions  

WTH is Teicher talking about

Basically ALL NFL HCs get the job because they are good/great at calling plays and building one side of the ball. And yet they almost universally hire coordinators and turn this responsibility over. Holding on to your old job responsibilites while taking over a new job is one of the worst decisions you can make.

Just another example of why Teicher reports on the NFL rather than working in it.

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 8:07 PM CST reply actions  

Listen to the interview (linked in the last line)

He expounds on that a little (didn’t have time to go into that part of it).

by Joel Thorman on Dec 1, 2009 8:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Alright. I'll give it a listen

Although it’s against my better judgement to listen to Teicher.

I do this just for you.

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 8:16 PM CST up reply actions  

On not listening to Teicher?

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 8:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Agreed

And I would like to apologize for telling you to go fuck yourself the other day. I hope you understand that I did so because you attributed a position to me that wasn’t mine and then called me pathetic for having that position.

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 10:33 PM CST up reply actions  

He's right in his statement

that the skills that make you a good coordinator do not necessarily make you a good HC. They are different skill sets. Having those skills however does not preclude you from being a good HC. In fact, pretty much all good HCs were coordinator who let go of their OC/DC jobs to be the HC. Then he burries his arguement when the only example of a “good” who wasn’t a coordinator is Herm Edwards.

What he does say that isn’t clear from the post here is that the reason he doesn’t think we should hire an OC is that Haley will be able to let go of those responsibilities. While he’s entitled to that opinion, I believe it would be a mistake to not hire an OC because of it. If Teicher is right, Haley is likely to fail either way. If we follow Teicher’s advice, we have no chance to see if Haley can succeed.

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 8:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Hmmm...

Word on the street is that Kubiak could be in the hot seat in Houston. I tell you what, if he got shit canned I think I may prefer him to Weis. Not only does he have a fantastic resume as an Offensive Coordinator, but with his zone blocking schemes he definitely has the potential to improve our shitty line, hell he did wonders in Houston. On top obviously he has head coaching experience which could be good in giving advice to Haley.

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Dec 1, 2009 8:07 PM CST reply actions  

I saw that too

Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!

I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.

by Lanier63 on Dec 1, 2009 8:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Let's keep all our options open till we know all the possibilities :)

We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram

by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 1, 2009 8:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Ive been saying recently we need a Mock Assistant Coach Watch!

Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!

I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.

by Lanier63 on Dec 1, 2009 8:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Al Groh

We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram

by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 1, 2009 8:12 PM CST up reply actions  

That's a freaking great idea...

lets get rid of all these mock drafts and do a mock offseason assistant coach changes post….

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 8:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Just saying...

and dont get me wrong… I love Charlie, despite what happened at ND under his watch, but if its between Weis and Kubiak, I think I like Kubiak more.

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Dec 1, 2009 8:13 PM CST up reply actions  

was Kubiak the real catalyst behind

the Broncs two SB victories?

Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!

I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.

by Lanier63 on Dec 1, 2009 8:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Elway my friend

Was the Team :)

We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram

by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 1, 2009 8:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Davis was the team

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 8:15 PM CST up reply actions  

I dont know if he had everything to do with it...

But Denver really did kind of fall apart after him. Of course its willing to believe that if Shanahan does take a job next year, he could try and get Kubiak.

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Dec 1, 2009 8:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Superbowl Coordinators are over-rated

Case in point 2003 in KC. One new OC and one Superbowl winning DC

by Lost in Denver on Dec 1, 2009 8:52 PM CST up reply actions  

hmmm like

our current head coach… ???

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 9:02 PM CST up reply actions  

that team went 13-3..

not sure what your point is

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Dec 1, 2009 9:03 PM CST up reply actions  

The DC had SB rings

but the D was terrible and we were carried by the O.

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 9:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Im not sure that was fair...

from what i remember Vermeil didn’t give Defense equal practice time. The defense was bad but partially because Vermeil didn’t respect it.

Its entirely possible that you can bring in a good coordinator and they struggle, but I would say Kubiak’s track record is as good as anyone. If you ask me his resume as an offensive coordinator rivals Norv Turners.

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Dec 1, 2009 9:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Not saying I agree

just explaining his arguement

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 9:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Apples to Oranges really

Denver won 2 SB and let their defensive coordinator walk, if he was good they would have kept him. Kubiak won Super Bowls and took a promotion and hasn’t quite done as well as people expected.

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Dec 1, 2009 9:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Kubiaks Off Rankings while OC with Denver

              pts yds
1995 9 3
1996 4 1
1997 1 1
1998 2 3
1999 18 14
2000 2 2
2001 10 22
2002 7 3
2003 10 7
2004 9 5
2005 7 5

Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!

I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.

by Lanier63 on Dec 1, 2009 8:27 PM CST reply actions  

not too shabby

* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers

by stagdsp on Dec 1, 2009 8:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Good Lord........

Thats a pretty damn nice list

Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes; after that, who cares?! He's a mile away and you've got his shoes!

by SuperTurtle on Dec 1, 2009 8:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes it is

unfortunately, I doubt the Texans will make the mistake of firing him. And if they do he’ll prolly get another shot at a HC gig.

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 8:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Wow, I had a pretty good idea there.

But I agree with you, and his offense in Houston is legit. He has Washington written all over him if he gets fired because even if they dont win games in Washington him putting up numbers will give them attention.

Though I agree that he probably is not leaving Houston anytime soon. Hardly his fault that he has to play Peyton twice a year.

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Dec 1, 2009 9:00 PM CST up reply actions  

You have a lot of good ideas

we just disagree on Romeo.

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 9:12 PM CST up reply actions  

I dont get it...

Romeo has not proven to me that he is capable of improving a Defense.

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Dec 1, 2009 9:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Because you focus on his time as HC

and I agree. As HC he can’t improve a D. As a DC however, he had the top D in the league and got 3 rings.

I’d like to hire him as DC. Shoot me if I suggest we hire him as HC.

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 9:39 PM CST up reply actions  

I get that...

But I still am of the mind that since Belichick is a defensive mind, that Romeo ran Belichicks defense. Evidence being that the defense really hasn’t changed much since.

Going back to a previous argument you can compare him to Greg Robinson won 2 Super Bowls went somewhere else and sucked. Dick Lebau sucked as a Head coach but his defenses were still good.

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Dec 1, 2009 9:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Denver fans would tell you

that Robinson sucked and they won those rings anyway.

Where we differ is on this Hoodie point. And that’s cool. I argue that you can’t give credit for his genius and then discredit his decision to make Romeo his DC. That D has remained good since Romeo left, but they have never been at the very top of the league again and they have not won a ring since.

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 10:17 PM CST up reply actions  

I will agree with all of that...

except the argument not winning a ring since, Since winning rings are very rare and the best team doesn’t always win it all.

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Dec 1, 2009 10:24 PM CST up reply actions  

The ring part

is really just a fun fact I use to poke the Hoodie worshipers

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 10:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Just wanted everyone to realize...

that if you Google Todd haley… this post is the one that comes up first… NICE….

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 9:01 PM CST reply actions  

I swear Google is powered by Gremlins

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KCSatchmo on Dec 1, 2009 9:13 PM CST up reply actions  

It's all about job security.

If you call the plays and they suck, you’re gonna get fired as coach. If your coordinator calls plays and they suck, you can fire the coordinator and extend your time a little bit.

by Vince D on Dec 1, 2009 9:07 PM CST reply actions  

I believe this team needs all the concistency it can get

The Chiefs have suffered enough upheaval this year. Just because Charlie Weise is available, doesn’t mean we should hire him and have Haley give up his play calling duties. There’s a ton of speculation out there and they"re dealing with it. I think it’s safe to say that Haley is admitting that having an OC handle the play calling will ultimately be best for the team, but that doing it this year isn’t in the cards. He’s acknowledging the need and at the same time deflecting the Weise speculation. He has to. He can’t afford any other distractions for a young, rebuilding and fragile team. Let the season run it’s course and we’ll see this coach make the right move and hire an OC.

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Dec 1, 2009 9:10 PM CST reply actions  

Who cares about distractions in a lost season though.

Might as well start the process now than during the off season.

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Dec 1, 2009 9:36 PM CST up reply actions  

a team with a shitload of fragile multi-million dollar talent might care :)

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Dec 1, 2009 9:39 PM CST up reply actions  

What?

These guys are adults, lets not insult their ability to understand building for a future. Its not like they would change over night. Come on.

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Dec 1, 2009 9:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Doesn't mean they've been developed into full-fledged veterans of the NFL

Think back to when you were 21, 22, 23 or 24 years old. You saying you weren’t impressionable? Now throw access to big money in that mix….

That’s what.

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Dec 1, 2009 10:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Give me that kinda rope and I woulda hung myself with a couple keys of yayo

Damn the career! :)

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Dec 1, 2009 10:09 PM CST up reply actions  

But to think that things would chane overnight is kind of crazy...

IF and thats a big IF they can bring a guy in now, they can start the transition now. I dont see what the difference is between changing now and changing 5 months from now. To me its the same as a player enrolling in college a semester early.

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Dec 1, 2009 10:09 PM CST up reply actions  

That's changing horses mid-stream

I’d love to lock up Weis as the OC, but you can’t think that after fumble-fucking around with Gailey two weeks before the season started that they’d actually do it again do you?

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Dec 1, 2009 10:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Thats exactly why I think they would do it.

Lets say Weis gets brought in… I imagine it would go down like this.

Weis starts sitting in on practices, with little input. He sticks to Haley’s side on game days, giving him input of what we could do with the plays we have. Slowly starts to integrate his own plays, by week 17 maybe he is running the offense. Players have an entire offseason to master a new playbook, by training camp they know it, and shit can be running like a well oiled machine.

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Dec 1, 2009 10:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Don't get me wrong, I'd love it. God knows I think Haley needs the help

I just don’t see it happening because Haley already looks like he’s bungled some major decisions as a rookie. You want him to openly admit defeat to a group of player who haven’t completely bought in yet? No effin’ way this happens.

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Dec 1, 2009 10:21 PM CST up reply actions  

He already has... Kind of.

He has said the help would be nice, Dont kid yourself if Haley sees this and says to himself we can be better because of this for next year, then I dont think he would even hesitate.

Having said that, I really dont think Weis is in any hurry to take a job having failed at his dream job. I really do feel bad for the guy, and I really like the guy. For his sake I hope he takes some time off before diving in again.

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Dec 1, 2009 10:27 PM CST up reply actions  

I hope he has

The ability to look at it objectively and say yes I need the help, I don’t need to prove anything as a HC… I just want to win ball games and this guy could help….

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 10:51 PM CST up reply actions  

EXACTLY!!!

Haley really hasn’t done anything to prove he is irrational, and to be honest in hind sight everything that people bitched about in the offseason has been justified since. Bowe still drops passes, and he also respects Haley immensely. Derrick Johnson plays with reckless abandon and seriously needs to learn some discipline.

If anything the fire and intensity that Haley has demonstrated has shown that (not counting the SD games) they play relatively mistake free football, which mean the Chiefs are losing to better teams, and not losing because they are shooting themselves in the foot. Thus far I really like what I have seen. I would like more wins, but considering what my expectations were for this season I really can’t complain.

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Dec 1, 2009 11:03 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't see myself ever being in his camp...

because I still think berating players and other coaches on the sidelines on national television is a bit irrational…. I did vowe to take it easy on him if he won three games… Derrick Johnson is inconsistent…. but is still the best ILB on our roster…. Bowe still has the dropsies, meaning Haley, despite his reputation as a great receivers coach didn’t do anything to help….

I still think he has more issues than I’d like to see with a head coach… but hey… there’s probably a reason I’m not an NFL GM…. I’m not all about hiring the hot new guy… I want the battle tested vet….

by callmesir on Dec 1, 2009 11:27 PM CST up reply actions  

First off let me say I agree with the yelling and what not at players and coachs although he has said he’s going to work on that and also you see it a lot these guys make mistakes like Sunday he should pat them on the back saying good job?

Part I don’t agree with is the bowe part respecting people and actually fixing a flaw are two different things. So saying haley isn’t that good because bowe still drops passes does that mean to who has had the drops his hole carrier and learned from one of the best never had a good oc? Does that mean Braylon edwards has never had a good oc because he still drops to many.

by karkz86 on Dec 2, 2009 12:28 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

The point of the post...

is that d bowe is someone that Haley became fixated with “fixing” and he just didn’t do it… Ultimately it’s up to d bowe…. but so are most things… what coaches can or can’t do for players is way overrated

by callmesir on Dec 2, 2009 1:14 AM CST up reply actions  

Yes of course Haley would want to try and fix Bowes drops. I’m pretty sure any coach would. When you consider based off age/talent hes our best wide out.

And to reply to your overrated comment. So would you have rather coach’s just sit still despite problems?

by karkz86 on Dec 2, 2009 4:54 AM CST up reply actions  

Trying... and not accomplishing anything....

does not a good coach make…… Just because he said hey… d bowe has the dropsies, I should try to fix it, but doesn’t…. doesn’t mean he’s a good coach… I knew d bowe had the dropsies… and I would have been just as much help as he was.

by callmesir on Dec 2, 2009 7:20 AM CST up reply actions  

But at some point it is on the player.

You can lead a horse to water, but if Bowe is just the type of player who is never going to get better at some point that is no longer on Haley.

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Dec 2, 2009 7:59 AM CST up reply actions  

If he has any involvement this year

they’ll bring him in as a consultant. They’ve done that with a few other guys for very focused roles and it appears to be somewhat successful. That is, as you say, of Weis is ready to jump right in after his epic fail at ND.

Otherwise, I say give him some time off and pursue him with the quickness after the regular season ends and get him in there looking at tape.

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Dec 2, 2009 10:21 AM CST up reply actions  

A couple of contrary opinions.

The last time we had a “He can’t handle OC and HC duties,” someone listed all(or most of?) the HC’s who call(ed) their own plays. I took that list and did an informal tally of playoff and Super Bowl successes. I concluded that the HC’s who controlled offense had a MUCH higher Super Bowl appearance and success rate. Nobody contradicted me, then, but nobody has brought it up in this conversation.

In his first year, there are a lot of things for Haley to learn, mostly about time management, delegation of authority matters. As HC, he needs to learn how to delegate AND maintain his stamp on things. He’s still learning how to judge new-hires, for what HE needs. Could be that the best thing for him would be to have a right-hand man or two to carry out a few specific directives as QB coach and gameplanner. What Haley ends up doing might not be what anyone else does. Nor does it need to be, as long as it works.

Everything I’VE seen from the guy bespeaks better organizational and management skills than I have. I have a very small number of keys I look for, and he possesses them all, in spades. Doesn’t mean I’ve been particularly happy with a lot of the things I’ve seen on the field. And I’m a bigger fan of the Tony Dungee school than the Bill Parcells school.

Anyhoo, let Haley keep doing his team-building and organizational thing, and we’ll know by next year if Pioli and he are on the right track in terms of getting people in that they can train and training them properly.

As for Pendergast, I liked the way he had ‘em swarmin’ to the ball like fiends down the stretch. I would’ve liked to have seen more Damn the torpedos! Full Speed AHEAD!" from him against the Chargers. This is not yet a D that can get it done up front with 3 or 4 pass rushers, and the secondary can’t hold up without pressure. He was kind of damned if he did and damned if he didn’t, so I’d’ve pinned my ears back and blitzed from every direction out of a game-long nickel personnel package.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Dec 1, 2009 9:55 PM CST reply actions  

Formatting, Mills.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Dec 1, 2009 9:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Lets not forget...

That in AZ..Haley had borderline HOF at QB, that can read defenses as well as anybody in the league and does a lot of audibling at the line…..Matt Cassel is nowhere near that type of QB yet. So, like someone else said before, Haley looked a lot better in that situation and had somebody making him look good. Warner is also one of the most accurate QB to ever play the game.

by KCinAZ on Dec 1, 2009 9:55 PM CST reply actions  

Cassel doesn't seem to have the "quick twitch" that we see out of the best QBs.

Then again, this was a criticism of Tom Brady, until he finally “broke through” and the game slowed down for him.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Dec 1, 2009 9:59 PM CST up reply actions  

I am 100% AGAINST bringing in ANY OC that would want to put in a new system

I don’t care what their resume is, this team needs some consistancy in a MAJOR way. Haley’s system seems to be coming around. If Cassel could continue to master Haley’s playbook, continue to get some chemistry going with Bowe and hopefully Chambers, if we can improve the o-line a little and Charles continues to shine this offense could take off next year. I am all for Haley having an OC that can run his system “with” him, but most big names that people would get excited about are probably going to have their own way of doing things and that puts our offense back at square one next year. No more starting over! No more “first steps” in a “process”. It’s time to start building upward and onward.

Feeling "The Love" and "Drinking the Kool AId"

by KCporkchop on Dec 1, 2009 11:56 PM CST reply actions  

I think the last

Thing a rookie head coach that has shown a penchant for being a control freak, with limited success needs is another yes man….

by callmesir on Dec 2, 2009 1:16 AM CST up reply actions  

That control freak stuff is overblown. He's HC. It's his head.

What would likely work better is a younger coach with promise. And LOTS of good coaches call their own plays. And lots of ’em did it from their rookie season onward. Reid, Holmgren, …

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Dec 2, 2009 7:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Wasn't Teicher against it to begin with?

Seems like everyone went crazy that he was going to be calling plays…

Don't forget to be an AP-vangelist...Tell A Friend...

by woodman212 on Dec 2, 2009 1:48 AM CST reply actions  

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