Jaguars WR Says Film of Chiefs Zone Defense Helped Them Win
by Joel Thorman on Nov 9, 2009 9:00 AM CST
in 2009 Campaign
39 comments
After Sunday's 24-21 loss to the Jacksonville Jaguars, the Kansas City Chiefs players are presumably pissed. Well, it won't help to hear that yet another wide receiver came into town and had a career day. WR Mike Sims-Walker caught six passes for 147 yards including a 61 yard touchdown grab.
The Chiefs, yet again, let up the big plays on defense that the team and the coaching staff has stressed in recent weeks.
According to the Jags' Walker, film preparation of Clancy Pendergast's defense helped them turn the game into a routine event of finding spots in the Chiefs zone.
"We watched film and worked hard at practice all week," he said referring to film of the Chiefs defense. "We saw they were a zone team and found the holes in their zone. Every man tried to get into that hole and whoever he threw the ball to had to make the play. It just happened to me this week."
Sims-Walker said simply, ""It was just a big day for the offense."
I've wondered this about Pendergast's defenses in the past. One of the remarks from a few analysts, former coaches and players was that Pendergast's defenses have a lot of different looks but operates a pretty standard defense.
If you watch the Chiefs defense, they're always lining up in strange sets, like FS Jon McGraw at MLB, or only two or even one lineman with his hand on the ground.
But does that pre-snap stuff really matter? It almost seems like those confusing defensive looks are the defense - that's the unique part of it, even though the defense operates, in the Chiefs case, quite poorly.
On the flip side of this, Mike Brown hints that the Jags offense did some things that the players were not prepared for.
“They did some things we really didn’t go over in practice,” he said. “You prepare for things, but we hadn’t seen those things all week, so there was some miscommunication.”
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Put the corners up on the line and hit the WRs in the mouth!
Leave the safeties back, because the CBs will get beat from time to time but dare I say the secondary is starting to resemble those of Greg Robinson.
Feeling "The Love" and "Drinking the Kool AId"
by KCporkchop on Nov 9, 2009 9:17 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, what's up with the CB's playin' 10 yds off?
No one ever says, "It's only a game" when their team is winning.
George Carlin-R.I.P.
by idahochieffan on Nov 9, 2009 9:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
CB's playin 10 yards off
to help compensate for the lack of safety help……see Mike Brown. We’d play a lot more press coverage if we could count on our safeties for support downfield.
by Hail2DaChiefs on Nov 9, 2009 9:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Only thing we can count on for sure each home game
is Warpaint shitting on the field at some point!
Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!
I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.
by Lanier63 on Nov 9, 2009 9:28 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
No shit Mike Brown
bq."They did some things we really didn’t go over in practice," he said. "You prepare for things, but we hadn’t seen those things all week, so there was some miscommunication."
Of course they didn’t do everything you saw on film. They adjusted to our defense for this game jackass. what you are supposed to do is adjust to them on the field. How about this. How about you stand 50 yards deep so even when you do something dumb like run in the opposite direction that the ball is being thrown, you will have time to correct it and save a TD, which, after all, is your f’ing job!
Please help send my girlfriend to Broadway! Visit http://magonbroadway.blogspot.com/
by Patrick Allen on Nov 9, 2009 9:20 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
They didn't go over tackling?
I remember Dawson to Taylor, Kenney to Carson, and Blackledge catching the snap in his facemask. Seen it all...
by BinSC on Nov 9, 2009 9:50 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
They did some things we really didn’t go over in practice
Like….um…run to the hole in the zone where you guys weren’t looking?
Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!
I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.
by Lanier63 on Nov 9, 2009 9:22 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'll say this....
I am convinced we need two new coaches after yesterday, but I am still a Haley supporter.
Offensive Coordinator
Defensive Coordinator
But it strikes this question within me: Supposedly Chan Gailey is still with the team, so why not let him run Haley’s offense? What the hell else could go wrong with the offense this year? I think it might give Haley a chance to look at other things, DEFENSIVE SCHEME, and start making adjustments for next year now.
Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!
I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.
by Lanier63 on Nov 9, 2009 9:27 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I agree on the coordinators
But Galey apparently just has a different philosophy, so I wouldn’t see the benefit of bringing him back for the rest of the season. He needs a coordinator, but one who meshes with his own philosophy…otherwise it’s not going to work.
Clancy has been given a tryout this season, and honestly he hasn’t done much. It doesn’t help that Arizona’s D is playing much better without him. I’m pretty sure we can do better.
by jmcgoblue on Nov 9, 2009 9:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm on board with that, Lanier.
But Haley will need to hire someone with an Erhardt-Perkins offensive background, like his. Obviously, we could check the staffs of the Giants, Dolphins, Patriots (obviously). However, E-P style offenses are run in New Orleans, Carolina, Arizona, and (sadly) Cleveland. Basically, E-P offenses are predicated on a man-zone combo run blocking scheme, over-the-middle downfield passes, and using a numbered system to identify plays.
It’s different than what Chan did because, even though he had experience in this style of offense in Pittsburgh, much of his background comes from coaching with Dan Reeves. Gailey’s system used more of a zone scheme on the o-line, screens, and passes to the outside rather than the middle.
//football nerd…Yes I’ve been Googling this all season…LOL.
As far as defense goes….I just want to throw a couple of items out there.
1) Would this defense look different if Coach Haley had asked Gary Gibbs to run it instead?
2) How do AP’ers feel about Romeo Crennel as a possible DC?
I’m just curious—throwing these out there as discussion points.
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
by go_saleaumua on Nov 9, 2009 10:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow love the info
you have any good sites that go into depth about the E-P offense?
Maybe if John fox gets fired we can hire his OC? just a thought
I was hoping this offseason we’d at least bring in Crennel as a D Consultant…
And I was REALLY hoping that the cowboys would win like 4 games to Wade Phillips would get fired and we’d hire him as DC.
by KU2010 on Nov 9, 2009 10:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It starts with Wikipedia (yikes) but it's backed with newspaper sources.
I got bored earlier this year after Haley was hired, and I recalled someone calling this the “Erhardt system” (can’t recall who, sorry). So I Googled it, and got the E-P page on Wikipedia…I don’t take Wikis literally but this article uses several different newspaper articles as sources, and they seemed pretty credible to me. They’re citations 1-8, for offense.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England_Patriots_strategy
It also talks about the history of the 2-gap 34 defense, and how Parcells etc. got into it.
For Chan’s background, I used KC’s old Gailey bio on the Mothership, and actually his Georgia Tech bio. That was still searchable as of training camp.
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
by go_saleaumua on Nov 9, 2009 11:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Chan Gailey page for GT is still up--just Google him, too.
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
by go_saleaumua on Nov 9, 2009 11:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
can you say?
Romeo? I hope his hip is feeling better.
by kc571 on Nov 9, 2009 10:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LJ RELEASED!
I JUST SAW ON ESPN THAT LJ WAS RELEASED! WOW! I LIKE THE MOVE!
by casselreadychiefs on Nov 9, 2009 9:32 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
yah I wondered about that Lanier63...
why not now? He can’t do any worse right? So….why not? Let Haley get back to whatever it is he’s supposed to be doing as a HC.
Hire DeBerg to coach Cassel for the remainder of the season and let’d go.
Mike Brown didn’t prepare for the ball getting thrown his way is what he should have said, because at this point in his career he is a washed up shadow of his former self, only I don’t hate him like I do LJ.
New Coaches?? You better believe it we need new coaches…please child..help me …can I get an amen??
Pendergast is awful. that’s why he and Gibbs got fired…they got fired….FIRED…we picked up more trash off the ground. That’s what we do lately.
I don’t think there was anyone else available personally so he is all we have to work with right now. So there you go. But definitely next year….he’s gotta go for sure.
Vermeil needs to come in as interim OC for all of next year. If he’s anything he’s about the best ever in the history of the NFL at building great O lines. No scratch that…amazing offensive lines is more like it.
Is it wrong for me to miss Dick? (-: j/k
by krayfish on Nov 9, 2009 9:33 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
You'' have to check with Heather on the Dick part...lol
Plus one on the DeBerg and Brown should know offenses are going to target his old wheel chair bound ass at this point in his career.
Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!
I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.
by Lanier63 on Nov 9, 2009 9:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
AMEN for ya, kray!
and in my mind, if … IF … Haley stays, he can NOT stay on as more than HC (ie, no OC and no play-calling)
one problem, of course, as was hashed out here on AP a couple of weeks ago, is “the scheme” vs “the players” thing … Herm ran a 4-3 and Haley runs a 3-4 … whole different universe, and Herm drafted his 4-3 guys for the front 7 so yeah there’s gonna be confusion (then too, the secondary shouldn’t be THAT much different, but again … TALENT can often overcome BAD COACHING except that, oh yeah, let’s see here … Pollard is gone and Brown is in)
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Nov 9, 2009 11:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Preparation
On the flip side of this, Mike Brown hints that the Jags offense did some things that the players were not prepared for.
That can pretty much be said of most games this year, couldn’t it? I mean, we do have a bottom 10 defense. They don’t really stop anyone.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
Fire Haley now.
by UCrawford on Nov 9, 2009 9:33 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
yah...that's code for "I'm embarrassed for my piss poor play that cost us the game again...sorry bout that"
by krayfish on Nov 9, 2009 9:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I realize teams watch tape to prepare each week
but for some reason that statement (Jags receiver) bothers me after this game. Again I am with Haley for the long term, but something with these asst coaches has to give and give now.
Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!
I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.
by Lanier63 on Nov 9, 2009 9:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder what Cards fans have to say about Clancy and his defense...
Does anyone have contacts w/ their SB nation blog?
I still don’t understand our coaches’ obsession with zone coverage. Did Pendergast run a ton of zone in Arizona too?
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
by go_saleaumua on Nov 9, 2009 11:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LARRY CUT!!!!!!!!!!!
looney reporting Larry is Released…
by dwil2009 on Nov 9, 2009 9:35 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I mean that was a bit obvious right uc?
That’s like basically just saying that whenever he gets burned deep, he wasn’t ready for it. He didn’t practice getting burned for two TD’s in one game. WTF is that?
I know he means well, and he’s a decent guy, so I wish him the best at this next career.
by krayfish on Nov 9, 2009 9:36 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Same Here
Brown’s a gamer and a class act…it’s too bad he wasn’t the same guy here that he was for much of his career in Chicago. But age catches up with everyone eventually.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
Fire Haley now.
by UCrawford on Nov 9, 2009 9:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone know...
what happened to us on the two blown coverages on the left side? How did the reciever get so wide open?
by GHOST OF DT on Nov 9, 2009 9:43 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
So
We start playing man, amirite?
Sackoff (McIntosh,Goff) like Brangelina.
by DaChefs on Nov 9, 2009 10:21 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Coaching issues
I’m thrilled that LJ is gone but this is a mere distraction to the real problems of this team. I didn’t think anyone could make me miss Herm but this team is a disaster and the coaching (with 2 weeks to prepare) was pathetic. Haley cannot pull this off and my fear is that Hunt/ Pioli are too arrogant to see the writing on the wall. Do any of us doubt that Chan Gailey wouldn’t have put out a better offense? The Jags watched 1 week of film and saw big holes in our zone coverage, Pollard is playing well for Houston, and we abandon our running game like we’ve never seen a 4 – 3 defense before. Haley and his staff are buffoons and need to go out with Larry.
by Olakan on Nov 9, 2009 10:36 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
No matter how it is packaged...
One of the remarks from a few analysts, former coaches and players was that Pendergast’s defenses have a lot of different looks but operates a pretty standard defense.
…it is still swiss cheese
"There are few secrets in football. So execute." ~Coach Stram
"I think it's the fans. The place is crazy. It's a good crazy, if you're Kansas City." ~Coach Schottenheimer
by Bad Medicine on Nov 9, 2009 10:44 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
O Romeo, Romeo, wherefore art thou Romeo?
"There are few secrets in football. So execute." ~Coach Stram
"I think it's the fans. The place is crazy. It's a good crazy, if you're Kansas City." ~Coach Schottenheimer
by Bad Medicine on Nov 9, 2009 10:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone think Charlie Weis will be available?
He seems to still be a great offensive coach. If ND gets a couple more losses I could easily see him being let go.
by jmcgoblue on Nov 9, 2009 11:00 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Has anyone started a list of Free Agent Coaches?
Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!
I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.
by Lanier63 on Nov 9, 2009 11:05 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
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