Belichick Q&A: Every player has a price
Bill Belichick talks a little about the development of Matt Cassel and what he looks for in a quarterback with Yahoo! Sports' Jason Cole. Great read. Like him or love him, Hoodie is a genius.
over 2 years ago
Nick Britt
74 comments
2 recs |
Email
PrintComments
Not everybody
Now, is Jerod Mayo(notes) available? No, not really. But there are certain players who are young that have a certain number of years left on their contract that you want on your team, so you’re really not going to trade them. Those guys are realistically not available, no.
Maybe this is a lesson Pioli missed out on. Don’t trade away your young foundation players.
Who did Pioli trade away that was a foundation player...
if your talking about Tank, he is hardly the talent of Jerod Mayo.
This space for rent.
by averagegatsby on Nov 6, 2009 5:38 PM CST up reply actions
More Like Pollard
He may never have become an All-Pro, but he was more of a foundation player than Morgan or Brown.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
Fire Haley now.
Meh...
“more of a foundation” is relative. Its like saying the Royals are better with Bettancourt than with Tony Pena Jr. But in reality both players suck.
This space for rent.
by averagegatsby on Nov 6, 2009 6:43 PM CST up reply actions
But Pollard Was Also Five Years Younger
So it’s arguable that he could have been coached to suck less.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
Fire Haley now.
Agreed
As much as it pains me to say it.
"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius, in contrary to Glenn Dorsey lining up in the 2-tech
Thats another thing that bothers me
Seems like Haley isn’t interested in coaching anybody up.
Bench DJ, cut Pollard, trade Tank. All of these players underperformed.
But wasn’t that one of the things everyone griped about Herm, that he didn’t know how to coach guys up? Doesn’t seem like Haley even wants to try.
How to define being "coached up?"
Belcher, Hali, Morgan, Leggett, Long, McGraw, Mays – All players that ascended under Haley.
Descent/Plane-Crash: McBride, McIntosh, Tyler, Jones, Pollard.
Myself, I’d’ve found room for McBride. To my eye, it was tough to watch him 1-on-1 in space, but he looked like one of the smartest players on the field, and in a good team concept, he was notable for being in position. I’d find a job for a smart ‘tweener like him. But it was a close call. Haley ’n’ Co. looked right past him as DE, offering only a shot at LB. I’d’ve been tempted to bulk Tyler ‘n’ him UP for the 3-4, rather than trim ’em down and trim ’em right outta their 3-4 plans.
Likely a better decision long-term for a brand of 3-4 football that makes sense, but short-term, kind of a waste of Tank ‘n’ Turk’s talents. Short-term, they’d’ve prob’ly been better off stickin’ with the 4-3 (but maybe keeping the “predator” idea for Hali, lettin’ him free-wheel behind 4 bigs.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
being coached up also goes both ways
Perhaps these players weren’t willing to be coached up.
Or, an evaluation was made that they weren’t capable of being coached up to where they needed to be in the system.
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
Young players that aren't capable of being coached up?
I just don’t believe it.
Pollard has improved every year he’s been in the league and you can say the same with Tank and Turk, though Turk really had no place in this defense.
you could be right
I am only speculating reasons they were let go. As you note with Turk, it could have simply come down to a “system” evaluation on each of them. An argument could be made that none of them fit the system we’re now building.
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
The attitude that just because a player isn't a future Hall of Famer
that he didn’t contribute to the team is kind of puzzling to me.
Despite Pollards faults, can you really say any of the players that replaced him are as good? I can’t.
I’d prefer to see them replace players with better players than cut guys to have less talented players in their place.
well yeah...
Im not saying Pollard isn’t better, but I think we are getting away from the original point. And that is I dont think any player that KC has released is a “foundation” player like Meyo.
This space for rent.
by averagegatsby on Nov 6, 2009 6:54 PM CST up reply actions
The foundation for the future of the Patriots is going to look different
Than the foundation of the Chiefs.
The foundation is something you can build on. It doesn’t mean that guy sis going to be on the team for 10 years.
Pollard was doing a solid enough player that you could have said “Ok Safety is ok for a couple years” while you address the more pressing needs.
Instead, Pioli has taken a position that was OK and turned it into a need without addressing the other needs. So next year, we could have been concentrating on O-line, Pass Rusher and running back, but now we have to address all those things PLUS Safety.
Dismissing a starting player for no good reason is not the way to build a team.
plus
It’s a different situation. I doubt anyone would be too upset if we got something from pollard.
We just cut his ass.
Predictions.
1. Tank Tyler will end up surprising everyone and be the anchor of our line.
"...Said he couldn't go on the American way"
by Jux on Nov 6, 2009 7:02 PM CST up reply actions
Yup
And we SHOULD have been able to get something for him.
"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius, in contrary to Glenn Dorsey lining up in the 2-tech
I'm not extremely critcal of Pioli and Haley
But that’s one thing I’ve disagreed on from the beginning.
And you’re right. He definitely had some kind of value.
Predictions.
1. Tank Tyler will end up surprising everyone and be the anchor of our line.
"...Said he couldn't go on the American way"
by Jux on Nov 6, 2009 7:09 PM CST up reply actions
I was cool with lettin em go
Until I saw how poorly Mike Brown takes angles to tackle in space, and how slow he is to change direction. Let’s not mention that he’s been nonexistent in coverage.
We could have got all that bullshit with BP, with more upside.
"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius, in contrary to Glenn Dorsey lining up in the 2-tech
To clarify...
We should have gotten something for him, but I wasn’t up in arms about it.
"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius, in contrary to Glenn Dorsey lining up in the 2-tech
He tried..
to get a 7th for him and there were no takers. It takes two to tango. I’m not losing a minute of sleep because we cut Pollard. Get over it.
I was never under it
Watch your assumptions.
"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius, in contrary to Glenn Dorsey lining up in the 2-tech
Brown just looks slow in space. Granted.
It’s hard to take a good angle, when you’re just not all that fast. Brown’s more of a leader and field general (which you need from SS). Pollard was just loud. Definitely a guy you can just let loose and let him fly to the ball, best as he can, but not a guy who does anything to facilitate his teammates. Doesn’t play really smart ball.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
To say Mike Brown is having those guys playing smarter football..
particularly the secondary, is debatable.
"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius, in contrary to Glenn Dorsey lining up in the 2-tech
I'm talking about things like Brown taking on a blocker to free up the LB.
I think he makes very few mistakes, but his lack of speed takes a LOT away from how much help he is in the pattern.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
And Page was playing better at the FS position
When Pollard was still here. Granted, some of that can be attributed to injuries that were obviously unbeknownst to us.
And what does it say of your leadership when you yourself are missing tackles and taking poor angles and not playing as smart as you preach?
"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius, in contrary to Glenn Dorsey lining up in the 2-tech
Meh...
In the draft you take the best player who addresses a position of need. So if Berry is available when we draft next year, Pollard or not Berry would be the right player.
I really think its a non-issue. Pollard isn’t that good, so saying its a loss is a bit of a stretch. Eventually the position would have to be addressed. Should we have traded him for something possibly. But I think most people over estimate the value of our players. The going rate for mediocre players on terrible teams isn’t great.
This space for rent.
by averagegatsby on Nov 6, 2009 7:09 PM CST up reply actions
I don't believe in picking a Safety in the top 5
where we undoubtedly will be picking.
A safety has only been drafted in the top 5 once in 30 years (maybe more, thats as far back as I went) and in the top 10 only four times in the last 30 years.
All those great Safetys everyone compares him to? None of them were picked that high.
Eventually the position would have to be addressed
Yeah. So now we have to address it next year instead of two or three years down the line.
That could be our next starting Center or Guard that would allow our offensive line to function. Now we have to spend it on a Safety that we could have gotten by with a few more years.
“Oh well we would have upgraded it eventually” is a piss poor excuse for a bad personnel move.
I dont agree...
with just accepting what you have. If the position can be upgraded… Upgrade it. The Chiefs thought they did, perhaps they were wrong. Perhaps Brown brings intangibles that Pollard didn’t. Fact of the matter is, my original point still stands.
Pollard is not the same type of foundation piece that Jared Mayo is. Pollard played here for a few years, his play wasn’t great and the Chiefs went in a new direction.
This space for rent.
by averagegatsby on Nov 6, 2009 7:36 PM CST up reply actions
you are assuming
we take a safety with first pick. We might very well do what you suggest and take a mid round safety that turns into a great one like so many have. And still upgrade over Brown or Pollard.
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
I'm assuming nothing
It doesn’t matter if we take a safety in the 1st round or the 7th.
The fact is that considering the other gaping holes on this team, Pollard would have held the position down well enough that it could be ignored for another year or two while the other needs were filled.
Now some other need is going to be ignored because they got rid of Pollard and now we have a crisis at Safety that was created by the current regime.
Maybe I'm crazy
But when I disagree with something the team does I usually just accept that I don’t have all the information they do, and just wait to see who made the right call.
I think its pretty arrogant to assume that any of us know the exact situation on the field and that would could do a better job.
So while I disagree with letting pollard go, It’s a pretty nonissue thing. They made a call, we’ll see what happens.
Predictions.
1. Tank Tyler will end up surprising everyone and be the anchor of our line.
"...Said he couldn't go on the American way"
by Jux on Nov 6, 2009 7:15 PM CST up reply actions
Right there with you.
"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius, in contrary to Glenn Dorsey lining up in the 2-tech
Concur, and here's something more in the calculus
Should we have traded him for something possibly. But I think most people over estimate the value of our players.
Nobody needed him at the time, and they needed the roster spot more than they felt that they needed him.
They might’ve kept him, anticipating Houston’s situation, if they’d had a crystal ball, or just wanted to roll the dice on general principle. (Not sure if Houston’s need became dire by or before trade deadline.) And they wouldn’t’ve been doing Pollard any favors by keeping him, but not playing him. Since he caught on fairly quickly, it will probably be greatly to his benefit. He is well-liked and greatly appreciated for his total abandon on the field by Texan fans, even though they know he’s not great in coverage. Anyhoo, just keeping him, just in hopes of a future trade would’ve been a little disingenuous.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
Disagree, ChiefDJ.
Pollard was doing a solid enough player that you could have said "Ok Safety is ok for a couple years" while you address the more pressing needs.
Not a good fit for the 3-4. Don Pioli doesn’t appear interested in cobbling together a serviceable 4-3, where a pure banger at S makes more sense. It’ll be interesting this weekend to see how the secondary performs with the young guys in there. Frankly, I’m interested in seeing just how they can play with Mike BROWN on the bench! For all their real and perceived faults, Morgan and Leggett are significantly quicker and faster than Brown and McGraw, and quicker as a duo than Brown and Page were, too.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
The problem hmills
The problem with getting rid of Pollard was not that we got rid of him. It was that we got rid of him for no compensation AND that the players that were there to replace him were lesser players than he is.
I understand the change to the 3-4 and needing players that fit that system. I do NOT understand just scraping off young, talented players and replacing them with washed up vets that are no part of the future either.
Yeah, repacing Pollard with a “pure banger at S” makes sense. Where is that guy? Why didn’t we have that guy locked up before we cut Pollard for no compensation? What did we have to lose by hanging on to him at least as a backup (wouldn’t you rather have him now than Maurice Leggett playing Safety?) and good special teams player until another team had an injury or something so we could get something for him?
I agree DJ on what your saying
but I was able to watch all the preseason games this year and Pollard did himself no favors with all the missed tackles. Now it is managements decision on whom they think can overcome their issues (poor tackling) and who can’t. Pollard is not the first ex Chief to go to another team and be successful depending on what their fans call successful.
Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!
I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.
No question about that Lanier
Pollard did have some bad missed tackles this preseason. But despite that, he was the 4th leading tackler two years ago and the leading tackler on the team last year. So its not like he was missing EVERY tackle.
My main gripe about them getting rid of Pollard is that they let him go for no compensation and with no better player to replace him. Yeah, they say no one would give anything for him because nobody needed a Safety at that moment. But would the Texans have given up a pick for him a couple weeks later when one of their guys was injured? Possibly so.
And its not just Pollard. You have Tank, who was the leading tackler on the team the games he started this year and was let go for a 5th rounder. Is Edwards really doing a noticably bettter job of opening blitzing lanes for the linebackers or clogging up the middle? I haven’t seen that to be the case.
I do agree with the no compensation part definately
but I think that was more Pioli’s decision and why it happened that way I can only think it may have been attitude related? Just not sure….
Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!
I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.
We'll probably never know
Pollard himself claims he doesn’t know.
Really the Pollard thing alone doesn’t bother me as much as all the other failures we’ve seen from them.
I want Haley and Pioli to succeed. I really do. I don’t care who is leading the Chiefs as long as they restore the pride of winning.
I’m just thinking that the more I see the season go by with no improvment but in fact regression that they are in over their heads and are struggling to figure out what they’re doing.
Do you really think Belichek would put Pollard and Mayo at the same level
I don’t. I don’t think any GM in the NFL does.
"A word to the wise isn't necessary, it is the stupid ones who need all the advice." ---Bill Cosby
I'll give you Brown
The jury’s still out on Morgan. Let’s give the kid a chance to show what he can do before we write him off.
It changed when he (Matt Cassel) took all the walkthroughs. He was the guy in the meetings, he took all the reps in practice, he was the guy with the game plan, he was the guy saying, "Hey, I don’t like this route, I like this." He had the input and it was catered to him, just like how Brady says, "I don’t like that play." OK, we’ve got plenty of other plays. But that might be a play that Cassel likes running, but he doesn’t say anything because he’s not the quarterback at the time. When he became the quarterback, he started talking about it and saying what he liked. I think all quarterbacks go through that. So where they are now and where they are going to be, as they grow into it and the coaches figure out who they are, sometimes the only way you find out is to actually let them do it.
Makes me wonder, with Haley being the offensive control freak that he is, if he is listening to Cassel when he says this.
I seem to remember a press conference where he discussed this very thing
saying something to the effect that plays are suggested by and come from Cassel and others sometimes. This Haley ego shit is way over blown in my estimation. The guy is not an idiot.
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
I really want to hate Belichick...
but I really dont. I dont even hold the “cheating” over him anymore. Its like the old Nascar adage… If you aint cheating you aint trying. So when you have someone who gets it like he does, and who works as hard as he does then you really have someone who transcends, Obviously Belichick is good at his job, but more than likely he would be good at whatever he chose to do. Which is why he routinely hires smart people and not football people.
This space for rent.
I dunno.
I don’t think you should break the rules on purpose. It’d be one thing if you were just doing all possible diligence, to get an edge, like coming up with a new way to set up a suspension that wasn’t against the rules. That’s legit innovation. It might’ve been something they didn’t know was against the rules, but it sounds like they knew full well. If they knew, there’s no integrity. Cant respect a man like that, and can’t trust him – there are a LOT of rules we ALL are expected to follow in order for civilized society to function and reward integrity.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
Im pretty sure every team
bends rules. Maybe Belichick did go above and beyond the normal, but I dont really think what he did is really all that big of a deal. I mean really we are talking about defensive signals. Offenses call their plays first, defenses run players in based on formation. QB’s audible on what they see. Im not really sure stealing defensive signals is all that big of a deal.
And all the time you hear of a Nascar team being penalized for having an improper wing angle or some crazy thing. I dont see it as being different.
This space for rent.
by averagegatsby on Nov 6, 2009 6:57 PM CST up reply actions
They're very similar. It was a good analogy.
And I’m saying there’s innovation and there’s dishonesty. If you knew the spoiler angle was illegal before you did it, that’s dishonest.
But there’s nothing in the rules that says you can’t, say, hire a lip-reader to spy on the other guys, unless there’s a rule against it and you know there’s a rule against it, but do it anyway.
I used to HATE Michael Irvin for the arm-bar. I still consider him a cheater. I’m interested in a fair contest, where the better man wins and wins fairly. It’s called respect for the game. Then when you win, it really means something. Maybe I just spent too much time in Sunday School, developing a conscience. But…
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
Hey I spent 12 years in Catholic School...
And Im not saying i disagree with you. Of course getting back to the analogy… Say the spoiler is suppose to be at a certain angle, can you justify it being a little off, and then round up or down? I think if a team is recording a team which is legal and also manages to get some play calling in view also. I dunno, its all semantics. Rarely is there a rule that isn’t open to interpretation.
This space for rent.
by averagegatsby on Nov 6, 2009 8:38 PM CST up reply actions
If I remember right...
Belichick claimed the Spygate thing stemmed from a misinterpretation of the rules.
Here is a good article from one of Boston’s finest, Mike Reiss that also features some comments from Scott Pioli: http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2008/02/18/belichick_and_pioli_speak_out/?page=full
Whether you buy what Belichick and Pioli had to say at the time, well, that is your opinion. Belichick and the Patriots did give up plenty of money and draft picks, so it is not like they went unpunished. Regardless, I think Pioli and Belichick are genuinely good people and the whole Spygate thing is moot.
People around here need to read this part:
Cole: Why are there so many bad teams around the league this year?
Belichick: Here’s the only thing I’ll say: I think to have a really good team in this league, you have to make a lot, a lot of good decisions. You have to have a lot of good people, players, coaches, whatever. You need a lot of those. Conversely, to not be competitive, you would have to have a lot of bad decisions. One bad decision is not going to do it, one bad player is not going to do it, one bad coach is not going to do it. You’re going to have to collectively, over a cumulative period of time, make a long series of bad decisions and accumulate a lot of players who are substandard for their position. There have to be a multitude of things that go wrong.
Pioli and Haley didn’t create this mess and we have to give them the benefit of the doubt to try and fix it. We have had too many of those substandard players starting for us.
When were the Chiefs last competitive? I say it was with Marty because Vermeils teams had no defense and he never won a playoff game. So starting with Marty’s departure we have had years of bad decisions around KC. Now we have people ready to lynch Pioli/Haley for less than one years worth of decisions?
Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!
I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.
by Lanier63 on Nov 6, 2009 6:33 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I don't think any reasonable person BLAMES Pioli and Haley for the teams state
But we can certainly question if they know how to rebuild it or not.
The Flip Side Of That, Though
Is that they really haven’t done much to improve things around here either. Pioli’s neglect of the o-line this season was an abysmally bad decision. Ditto Haley’s/Pioli’s decision to cut Pollard. Or Haley’s decision to remove Gailey two weeks before the season and install a completely different offense while giving the players almost no time to work on it. Or Haley’s decision to take three full-time jobs himself. Or Haley’s decision to hire a terrible defensive coordinator. Or Haley’s decision to keep playing Larry Johnson and his craptacular 2.7 ypc until Johnson threw his coach under the bus publicly. Or Haley’s decision to bench Bowe in preseason so he and Cassel couldn’t work together.
Did Carl and Herm leave the team in a bad state? Undoubtedly. But I don’t think there’s much anyone can point to that shows that Haley and Pioli have been digging us out of that hole. Most of what they’ve done, I’d posit, has dug us deeper in.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
Fire Haley now.
Two fundamental changes.
3-4 on D and zone-blocking on O. Both moves that should make it easier for them to plug-and-play with their big men, which means they should be able to maintain a good foundation (once they land a true NT, chosen for the purpose). I’m not sure that the zone-blocking was a choice made in midwinter, or a reaction to an O-Line that could barely manage a (semi- sorta-) decent spread offense. That might’ve been their big blunder.
To you and I, they failed to do things that we thought obvious, and their subsequent failures do seem to point to incompetence. They’re definitely rolling the dice on Cassel’s health – physical and mental, by not setting the table for him. But if he survives the ordeal this year, without permanent damage, and they do fix the O-Line (by end of season or next season), then they scored BIG by spending only a 2nd-rounder and settling the QB question for years to come.
Don’t like what I’m seeing THIS season, but if they get a hit on even ONE of Ndukwe, O’Callaghan, Alleman, it’s a coup. If they score on 2, it’s a double coup (A “coup-coup”). These are the kinds of little things you can do that look stupid, short-term, but give you a leg up, because you have dibs on the waiver wire, and just made a hole on your roster to put those prospects in, with a throwaway season to really see which of the 3 (or 4, counting Richardson) are hits. Meanwhile, Colin Brown in the wings…
This KC team could easily go from “desperate for starters” to a team recognized for depth, more or less immune to the injury bug, both for being able to rotate more guys to minimize injury and have more guys when injury strikes. You see teams like Pitt and Indy that compete year in and year out, and they encounter their problems, but the next guy down the depth chart steps in.
But we’ll see how it plays out. One of the things Belichick talked about at length was how you can’t really tell about a player, unless you see him in game situations, and a year or three down the road, when many of KC’s best current starters are either still starting, or #2 on the depth chart, this will be a team with a pretty high collective football IQ – the smart team we’ve heard all about, but haven’t seen, just yet.
They’re getting a year with a lot of leftovers they prob’ly don’t want, and a
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
Completely disagree. Pioli and Haley are the GM and HC. They are in and see...
this situation every day. If they have some one that they just are not comfortable long term…..then, they are better to get rid of them now. The above is all second guessing.
There is definitely a "team chemistry" aspect to it, that's invisible to us, until we see it translate onto the field.
Been in work situations that were very good and very bad, even though people were doing the right things. Just personalities didn’t work. A clean divorce is better than an ugly marriage.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
You are what your record says you are
So far the record says Haley and Pioli don’t know what they’re doing.
Shouldn’t we hold them to the same standard they are holding the players to?
What they see is...
A bad offense practicing against a bad defense. They both look good in practice but bad on game-day. If one or the other was ranked in the top ten, you would see this team getting better faster.
No one ever says, "It's only a game" when their team is winning.
George Carlin-R.I.P.
by idahochieffan on Nov 6, 2009 7:22 PM CST up reply actions
I often have that thought.
But as I’ve said in other threads, I think they knew in training camp that they were in serious trouble up front. Not sure when Todd’s dad, Dick, came in to have a look at the big men. But at that point, the brain trust let slip that this was a multi-year proposition.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
Pretty sure
Dick Haley came in on Family Day during training camp. You’re absolutely right about them saying it would be a multi-year proposition. I remember reporters asking about what his dad thought about the bigs, and that’s when he said that we have some work to do in that area.
speaking of the patriots
Did anybody else notice that national football post is reporting the patriots cut OG kendall simmons?
I was going to fanshot this but I can’t on my phone.
I don’t know if he wud be another person to look at for the line or not. What do you all think?
by chiefs8288 on Nov 6, 2009 7:15 PM CST via mobile reply actions
bring him in
Predictions.
1. Tank Tyler will end up surprising everyone and be the anchor of our line.
"...Said he couldn't go on the American way"
by Jux on Nov 6, 2009 7:16 PM CST up reply actions
Yes someone FanShotted it
You probably don’t see the FanShots since you’re on the mobile version. Thanks for the mobile update!
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
