Winning Mentality and Why Todd Haley Is Our Coach
by Red Shadow on Nov 4, 2009 10:58 AM CST
99 comments
It is almost like Chiefs fans forget how terrible Herm Edwards was. From what I gather, he held short, weak practices, and wanted to be each player’s best friend. He wanted to be the grandpa instead of the father. It made our team mentality W E A K. And I personally think that is the reason for the ineptitude that we still see. Some people will argue that is was drafting wrong players, or Vermeil ignoring the defense for so long. I disagree.
WInning teams have a winning mentality, and it makes it appear that they have the talent. Now, that is not to say winning teams don’t have talented players. It is simply saying that the winning mentality as a team, makes the effort maximized in each player, making them play above themselves. I believe this. The mind is the most powerful of things. It can corrupt you or it can energize you. It is the coaches’ jobs to create this mental environment. And it doesn’t happen by coddling the players and making them like you. It happens when you get a coach that pushes you to the point of hating him. And, you want to do whatever possible to prove him wrong. It instills discipline, and it is a proven method. Todd Haley is the PERFECT coach for the Chiefs right now. He is ALL business. And the first order of that business is changing the mentality on the team. They are going to work for everything they get, and some players don’t like it (DJ). Although, I want to see DJ on the field as much as the rest of you, it HAS to be this way. We want our rookies for years to come to come in and play with an edge, we don’t want anyone complacent. It starts with the coaches and they must win over the veterans first. Then, the veterans lead by example and voice for the youngsters.
The point is this. Todd Haley is getting the short end of the stick right now with the fans, because it is a “what have you done for me lately” league. But truly, in reality, we cannot develop a winning team until the locker room is filled with a winning mental environment. The players have to believe they are warriors. Warriors WANT to go to work, they don’t complain about it.
Just my 2 cents – and a little perspective.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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I'm with you Shadow
My take on DJ all along has been “go out there and do what they ask you to do while playing as hard as you can” if he won’t do that then I’m fine with him sitting. He’s getting paid millions of dollars by the Chiefs. It’s his job to do what they tell him to do in the way that they want it done. They shouldn’t have to change their way of doing things to pamper some underachieving first round draft pick.
It's a good thing Pioli and Haley aren't running AP or a lot of you guys would of been traded or cut for cast offs from the Pats Pulpit.
by KCporkchop on Nov 4, 2009 11:11 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I am going to honest
I want a defense like the Steelers or Ravens have. They have warriors on their defenses that INTIMIDATE grown men. They have leaders on D, who get the most out of everyone on the field.
I actually think if Haley eventually gets to DJ, he could be one of those type players. He just isn’t buying in yet. I hope he does because he has all of the talent in the world. It’s time to get tough instead of soft.
If everyone worked as hard as me, I would be out of a job.
-Steve Nash
by Red Shadow on Nov 4, 2009 11:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok but....
And I’m not bashing Haley but I don’t see what makes him so great for us. Anyone can come in and be a drill sargeant. That’s not a skill. I went thru bootcamp and I can assure you, it’s not hard to be a hardass. That doesn’t get Haley a medal ok?
Being a great coach comes down to one thing in the end..“you are what your record says you are”…Bill Parcells. Period.
I’m not bailing out on Haley because he deserves time to learn this job too, just like everyone else. But throwing titles at him and accolades for the sake of accolades is kool-aid delusional. You have to EARN that reputation. Ok?
What has Haley ever done that makes him so special? Seriously, I’m not taking anything from him in AZ, but let’s be real for a minute. He didn’t draft Fitz or Boldin and he didn’t trade for Warner. So I say good for him that he did a good job over in AZ. But really, who couldn’t? Seriously, what human with the skill set to even become an OC for any NFL team couldn’t do something miraculous with that offense?
That’s like taking over as Mohammed Ali’s coach AFTER he became an elite boxer and taking credit for it. Their already stacked with talent and experience. Warner could call his own plays. He doesn’t need an OC anymore than Peyton does. Petyon calls whatever he feels like once he lines up. He calls more audibles than anyone.
So I’m not drinking the kool aid simply because he has a different style than Edwards. That alone does not make you anything but different.
by krayfish on Nov 4, 2009 11:47 AM CST reply actions 4 recs
I see your point
Good post. Rec.
I agree that everyone, coaches included should have to earn what they get. Haley is on his way. You are correct in that Haley and Edwards are just different. I prefer Haley’s way of doing things. I love your drill sergeant comparison. But, let me ask you this. If you had a war to fight, would you want your troops trained by a drill sergeant, or by Casper the friendly ghost?
The only other thing I would note is that AZ Cardinals were hardly special before last season. 5-11 in 2006
8-8 in 2007
Thanks for your post!
If everyone worked as hard as me, I would be out of a job.
-Steve Nash
by Red Shadow on Nov 4, 2009 11:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Your post actually reminds me of some of my earlier posts regarding Haley
It’s good and positive. I appreciate your post very much. And yes I would rather have Haley leading us than Herm any day. But Tom Landry was also very laid back and he was a superstar coach.
I agree Herm was a softie and I’ve often said as much. haley is better for our mentality for sure. Good post.
by krayfish on Nov 4, 2009 12:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Tom Landry
was 0 – 11 – 1 in his 1st year as a head coach. In his 1st 5 years the Cowboys never won more than 5 games in any of them. Luckily for him (& all of football) the Cowboys organization had the patience to stay with him! Way to early to analyze anything yet!
Patience my friend. Rome wasn’t built in a day & neither were the Pats or Steelers or others who tend to be among the best teams every year; although the Patriots didn’t start being annual contenders until they brought in Belichick & he teamed up with Pioli as sort of a co-GM situation!
by ttownmikey on Nov 4, 2009 2:58 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes ... but
I believe that Landry was starting with an expansion team before expansion teams received much help in the start-up process … there was no free agency and there was competition from that upstart American Football League who drafted the same players the NFL drafted. More patience can be expected in that kind of situation. It is OK if you want to encourage patience but using the Cowboys and Landry really is a stretch … although, now that I think about it, I am not sure that the Chiefs are much more than an expansion team right now.
by Hank44 on Nov 5, 2009 9:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
there was no free agency and there was competition from that upstart American Football League who drafted the same players
However, even with that upstart league there were a lot less teams soaking up the talent.
there was no free agencyAnd you also didn’t lose your talented players to free agency once you had them they were yours to keep unless traded or retired.
We suck and we are getting better. Patience is required and will be rewarded.
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
10/28--The Koolaid buzz is beginning to wear off. Maybe drop this back to my original thoughts on the year. Chiefs go 6-10 (and that my be optimistic!). LJ gets a restraining order to stay 1400 yards away from the Chiefs. I'll let the rest stand for now.
by Zodeman on Nov 5, 2009 9:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nevertheless, there were numerous suitcases of money appearing in hotel rooms...
… of players who weren’t nailed down. The AFL was VERY aggressive about spending money to compete with the NFL, and they made no bones about it. The Texans rapidly became a pretty good team without much fan base and the Cowboys were a poor team in that same fan base.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Nov 5, 2009 10:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
true
But you didn’t have more than a player or two a year make the jump…now every team faces multiple players leaving every year.
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
10/28--The Koolaid buzz is beginning to wear off. Maybe drop this back to my original thoughts on the year. Chiefs go 6-10 (and that my be optimistic!). LJ gets a restraining order to stay 1400 yards away from the Chiefs. I'll let the rest stand for now.
by Zodeman on Nov 5, 2009 10:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and the Cards just about backed into the playoffs at 9-7 if I recall ... so that qualifies as some stunning achievement? by Haley???
and last time I checked the Chiefs and the NFL were about football, not war …
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Nov 4, 2009 11:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good post Kray--makes a lot of sense.
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
by go_saleaumua on Nov 4, 2009 4:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Delusional
Seriously, what human with the skill set to even become an OC for any NFL team couldn’t do something miraculous with that offense?
Maybe we’ve been watching different NFLs over the years, but history is littered with highly talented teams that didn’t make it to the championship game. I will quote Pioli talking about Cassel last year….he was with a talented team and did well…but he could have screwed it all up and didn’t. Same thing with Haley…yes they were talented but he could have screwed it up…and didn’t.
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
10/28--The Koolaid buzz is beginning to wear off. Maybe drop this back to my original thoughts on the year. Chiefs go 6-10 (and that my be optimistic!). LJ gets a restraining order to stay 1400 yards away from the Chiefs. I'll let the rest stand for now.
by Zodeman on Nov 5, 2009 9:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I really appreciate the more lucid posts on here about Haley. The emotional ranting gets old.
This site is awesome 90% of the time, but after a loss the posts are practically unreadable.
I like the guy on a personal level, but it will be at least another year before we know if he makes a good head coach or not.
I’m interested to see how a lot of this ultimately pans out in terms of players and coaching staff. Pioli and Haley were hired pretty late in the process and the coaching ranks had been pillaged. Hell, Pioli had to use Carl’s scouting staff for the draft. I don’t think they will hesitate to make changes.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
by Rev. Slappy on Nov 4, 2009 12:34 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
Agree
I really hope he makes it. I like him as a coach and I think he will do well simply because he is putting forth a consistent message daily about how things will be done. Buy in and be part of it or you will not be around. One thing for sure…they are not going to just stand pat and hope for the best.
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
10/28--The Koolaid buzz is beginning to wear off. Maybe drop this back to my original thoughts on the year. Chiefs go 6-10 (and that my be optimistic!). LJ gets a restraining order to stay 1400 yards away from the Chiefs. I'll let the rest stand for now.
by Zodeman on Nov 5, 2009 9:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One bad decision after another....
That is what I see out of Todd Haley so far.
Everything from play calling to, personnel decisions to, poor clock management to, a complete and total lack of overall preparation by the team as a whole. Not to include the fact he fired a PROVEN O-Coordinator and cut a guy (Pollard) who would have been VERY beneficial to us now. (who happens to be playing VERY well in Houston might I add)
I could go into this more detailed if necessary but, overall, I think Haley is TERRIBLE as a head coach. You can blame talent all you want but, the way I see it, all of these guys are professional football players and they were drafted as such. They have talent just like all the other guys who were drafted around them so, I don’t see that as a viable excuse. It is up to the coaches to correct their errors and have them prepared for game day. This coaching staff has not done that.
Guys like Keyarron Fox, Alphonso Boone, Turk McBride, Bernard Pollard etc. have all gone on to have good careers after not being able to get the job done here. That alone tells me that it is and has been on our coaching staff/management and NOT on the players.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Nov 4, 2009 1:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
wow 1970...your alive!! excellent
good comment..welcome home!
by krayfish on Nov 4, 2009 1:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would like to add
Haley might not be the long term coaching solution for the Chiefs, depending on how he does. But, I think he is the perfect option RIGHT NOW to turn this losing mentality around. This team will be better off because of him. And then, if he fails as a head coach, the team will be ready for the next coach to take them to the promise land. Herm Edwards did the exact opposite when he left. He left the team in shambles, and the players expected to lose. Their spirit was broken and the next head coach had to fix that before the team is capable of winning games again. It remains to be seen if Haley will pan out, but I like the mentality that he is instilling in our players.
If everyone worked as hard as me, I would be out of a job.
-Steve Nash
by Red Shadow on Nov 4, 2009 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed...the more I read your post and comments the more I like em'
Post away friend!!
by krayfish on Nov 4, 2009 2:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks!
Long time reader…just getting into posting during my down time at work.
If everyone worked as hard as me, I would be out of a job.
-Steve Nash
by Red Shadow on Nov 4, 2009 3:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
kray, I fear that I may be losing you ... are you alright? still taking your meds, yes?
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Nov 4, 2009 11:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That sounded like a jab at ME not kray :-)
If everyone worked as hard as me, I would be out of a job.
-Steve Nash
by Red Shadow on Nov 5, 2009 9:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not meaning to be rude but...
a half of a season does not make a career. Most of the guys you named above were released during the off-season. Also just because they succeeded elsewhere does not mean a failure on the part of our coaches. There have been plenty of times where players have moved from one team to another and had greater success because they fit the system better there. Haley is in his first year as a head coach and as such there are going to be growing pains. He is going to have to learn how much he can handle and be willing to accept delegating what he can’t handle. That alone will help him out greatly.
But it goes beyond that. He also has to try and win with the talent that is present on the team. To be honest, I think if you were to ask him he probably regrets the “22 players off the street” comment he made in the off-season. You can only do so much with the talent you have. The situation he was hired into was not created in one season and it will probably take a couple drafts and some free agency aquisitions before we are competitive again.
It has only been a half of a season and some people seem ready to throw Haley to the wolves. You have to have more patience then that. No dynasty was built in the first year. It will take some time and there will be some growing pains. Herm was with us for 3 years, you should at least afford Haley the same opportunity before declaring him a failure. I honestly believe that if you give him and Pioli a little bit of time you will be more then satisfied with the finished product.
by Cassel This! on Nov 4, 2009 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
the "22 players off the street" comment
WHITLOCK says he said that to Brian Waters (through his anonymous ‘source’. He may have said it, but I wouldn’t put it past dipshit to have made up, or at a minimum embellished, the story.
There’s been no confirmation (or denial) by Waters or Haley on the comment.
It’s amazing how rumors put out there by the media can become fact in the minds of those interested.
by jmcgoblue on Nov 4, 2009 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why would you not believe it?
Has Whitlock ever actually reported a lie as fact before? I know a lot of people don’t like him, but I don’t think he’s ever published a factually inaccurate story before.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Nov 4, 2009 2:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I just don't consider hearsay to be fact
Particularly when it’s coming 3rd hand.
by jmcgoblue on Nov 4, 2009 3:40 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
So you have no reason to believe that it isn't true
other than Whitlock reported it, and to your knowledge Whitlock has never lied before in a story?
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Nov 4, 2009 5:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How would I know if he's ever lied or not?
How do I know his ‘source’ wasn’t lying? I don’t think Whitlock just made up the story, but assuming that he didn’t he’s still only telling one side of the story.
I really do find it hard to believe that the conversation really went like this:
Waters: “Hey coach, just wanted to come up here & introduce myself & try to get on-board with you.”
Haley: “22 guys off the street could win two games, get out of my way.”
It’s just funny that Kurt Warner, Larry Fitzgerald, Anquon Boldin, Keyshawn Johnson and Dwayne Bowe (among others) have all publicly gone on record to say that they think Haley is a great coach to play for…yet the “22 guys off the street” comment is constantly used around here as some sort of validation that he’s an over-his-head egomaniac. The quote also comes from an anonymous source via a newspaper commentator who has demonstrated repeatedly that he has an agenda against Haley and Pioli.
by jmcgoblue on Nov 5, 2009 8:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Cassel This..
again..I think you miss the point of most replies on AP concerning Haley. It’s not that Haley needs to go bye bye. It’s not that he won’t be the long term solution. It’s that people keep praising him and telling us to just wait and “you’ll see”.
That’s all well and good and may be very true in the end. We are discussing the here and now. Right now he is doing a poor job. He is new at this job and needs some time to grow into it. Everyone agrees. It’s just that we get tired of people throwing rose pedals at his feet because he’s some great savior of the Chiefs. HE"S NOT!
He might be one day but not now… not yet! We just have to wait and see.
by krayfish on Nov 4, 2009 2:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
....Guess I missed something Krayfish.
When was Haley deemed to be “some great savior of the Chiefs?” I recall a lot of optimism about him, based on his success in Dallas and in Arizona. But I don’t recall anyone saying that he was going to fix all of the problems in this franchise.
I’m sure some people THOUGHT that…and that’s natural. When change occurs, people expect everything bad to be wiped away—sort of like exposing a hard drive to a magnet.
The things that weren’t going well in KC weren’t going well for awhile—at least since I was in HS (late 1990’s). No rookie head coach will fix that. I think you’d say (or have said?) the same thing.
I agree with you on this one…“He might be [a great coach] one day but not now… not yet! We just have to wait and see.”
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
by go_saleaumua on Nov 4, 2009 4:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Cassel This, you were ragging about "Most of the guys you named above were released during the off-season"
in fact, 2 of those 4 named were released DURING this season alone … and if talent is released like that, then how, pray tell, does Haley plan to use “and win with the talent that is present on the team” … by belittling players? depth chart demotions to motivate???
“No dynasty was built in the first year” and that is true, but Herm had only ONE year with HIS players … ie, last year
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Nov 4, 2009 11:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Fox was cut by the previous administration
mcbride, pollard, etc. have gone on to have careers. Good careers has yet to be determined.
All losses in the 2009 season will be Herm and Carls fault.
by Idahochief on Nov 4, 2009 8:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Haley is too unstable...
I am with Chiefsfan1970….Haley is not a good coach at all. He is erratic and a horrible evaluator of talent. THERE IS NO WAY IN Bloody H—-JON MCGRAW AND MIKE BROWN SHOULD START IN THE NFL. and WHY does Larry Johnson need to F-UP for us to take a solid look at Jamal Charles? DeJuan Morgan will likely outplay both of the starting safeties…. McGraw and Brown.
Both Tyler and Brodie were never given a chance to compete. It is the coaches job to evaluate talent and create competition at every position, at least hat is the crap that Haley keeps feeding us. I went to the Ravens/Chiefs game and Brodie looked better than Matt has looked all season.
by Cheflove on Nov 4, 2009 10:07 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Disagree...
That’s a cop-out. these are grown men who are paid millions of dollars to play a game. If you want to turn around a losing mentality then, the players need to be PREPARED to win. Todd Haley and Clancy Pendergast have NOT gotten these players prepared to play.
It is my opinion that the performance of a football team falls SQUARELY on the shoulders of the coaches. They are the ones responsible for getting the best performances out of their players who, might I add were taken in the same draft as the players from other teams. If these same players can succeed on other teams, they should be able to succeed here as well. (If the coaching is good, which ours is not)
by Chiefsfan1970 on Nov 4, 2009 1:42 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
If these same players can succeed on other teams, they should be able to succeed here as well. (If the coaching is good, which ours is not)
Completely wrong. Every situation is different. There are a thousand ways each organization is different so just because a player succeeds in on situation doesn’t mean he will succeed in EVERY situation.
It also doesn’t mean it’s 100% because of coaching. Some players are a better fit for a different scheme or just a different overall mentality. If Haley was doing this with all of his own players then I would understand, but he’s not. A lot of these guys were drafted or brought in to fit Herm’s schemes and were used to Herm’s mentality. It takes time to change that.
by JComp11 on Nov 4, 2009 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This team was 6-26 over the past two seasons
What exactly were you expecting over the first half of the season (against THAT schedule)?
You don’t think it’s an issue with the talent level? I don’t care how well the team prepared, we had no shot of beating most of those teams short of them screwing up…and they didn’t.
Compared to the other rookie head coaches out there, I don’t think Haley’s been doing badly at all. Have you seen some of the horrendous decisions Rex Ryan has been making? St. Louis? Awful. Detroit? Awful Tampa Bay? A Joke
Please keep some perspective…Haley is a coach, not a miracle worker
by jmcgoblue on Nov 4, 2009 2:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I am of like mind 1970...
I don’t have a lot of use for excuses. It’s just like if I hired a new employee to do a job for my company. She comes in and she talks good, she looks good, she has an impressive resume’. That alone will carry her for awhile.
But as her performance slips I excuse her for the most part as she is new and learning, although not without experience. She continues to make bad decisions and begins to fire my current staff and bring in “her” people. Her people turn out to be next to worthless.
My companies stock plummets because we are losing every quarter instead of gaining (haley says the season has 4 quarters to it). We have one week out of almost the entire first half of the year.
Should I continue to look the other way and pretend that she’s great and everything will be okay? Or do I start to get involved and start looking into what she’s failing at?
If this continues do I just let my company fail and smile like a zombie as I watch the doors close forever? No way. You still have to evaluate your staff continuously. Successful corporations constantly take inventory of management and help staff to ensure top notch performances lest the company bankrupt itself.
This is our team, it’s a business and it has a structure like any other corporation. Those in charge are to be held accountable for doing their job. As 1970 points out…THIS IS THIER JOB!! It’s what they get paid to do.
There are no excuses..just results. If those results are bad then the criticism is justified. When the results are great will Pioli and Haley not receive the praise for it? Then they must be willing to accept the blame when it is not going well. They are in charge for better or for worse.
Quit coddling them like their poor little babies. They took this job on willingly. It’s their responsibility to make it work not to make excuses and neither should we. Put the blame and the praise where it belongs…and it all starts with Pioli and Haley.
by krayfish on Nov 4, 2009 3:00 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I hope you would give your new employee more than 7 weeks to turn around a business with the ability of a dog turd before firing her. It takes time for that employee to bring the right people in and train them and the old ones in a new system.
by JComp11 on Nov 4, 2009 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And by “time,” in this case, I mean a couple seasons.
by JComp11 on Nov 4, 2009 3:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Also to be considered
in the beginning of this “rebuild” the results won’t necessarily be visible to any of us from our outsiders vantage point. Results don’t always equate to wins or losses or even performance on the field at this point of the game. The 1st signs of improvements will be in the locker room & in the practices & in the attitude of the players. Once that overall “team philosophy & attitude” (the mental aspect of being winners as Shadow said) of believing in themselves & in each other, only then will we start to see the results that each of us are searching so diligently for.
Until the players all “learn how to be winners again” & start to believe in their abilities “as a team together”, none of us as fans will be able to tell if there is any significant improvement or not. The journey isn’t going to be fun but the destination will be, and kids: “We aren’t there yet!”
by ttownmikey on Nov 4, 2009 3:37 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
Excellent post.
If everyone worked as hard as me, I would be out of a job.
-Steve Nash
by Red Shadow on Nov 4, 2009 3:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rather ironic
that while we were talking about seeing signs of improvement, a post went up in regards to the new motivational poster at Arrowhead saying the same basic thing that you & I are trying to point out.
by ttownmikey on Nov 4, 2009 4:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you implying that I AM Todd Haley?
Perhaps YOU, sir, are Todd Haley.
Man I am bored.
I like the motivational poster…hopefully this team gels sooner rather than later, so we can talk about why we only won by 4 (Like Colts fans).
If everyone worked as hard as me, I would be out of a job.
-Steve Nash
by Red Shadow on Nov 4, 2009 4:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I too
am a fan of the poster just as I like the Steve Nash quote in your sig. The extra work is the only thing that separates some of the great teams & players from the others, not necessarily their God-given talent; although that does help a lot! :)
by ttownmikey on Nov 4, 2009 5:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
not surprised, Red, that you like the hallway sign ...
after all, it blames the players, not the coach
so tell me, where’s the accountability for HC Todd Haley? the team is atrocious, not only is he HC he has, as OC, made some stunningly stupid calls all year long … why hasn’t HE been demoted yet???
high standards don’t apply to leaders, huh?
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Nov 4, 2009 11:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Blame?
It appears to me that it is a motivational sign…not sure where you are seeing anyone blamed for anything in that. If you do, then you desperately trying to see something like that.
The accountability for the head coach on a rebuilding team comes at year end, not after 8 weeks into the season. I shouldn’t have to waste time posting that.
If everyone worked as hard as me, I would be out of a job.
-Steve Nash
by Red Shadow on Nov 5, 2009 9:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
To clarify
By accountable, I mean fired.
People are talking about holding coaches accountable on here, and while I agree they should be held accountable…what does that mean exactly and how would we know if there were or not? Do you just want him to take the blame for losses in press conferences? Please explain.
If everyone worked as hard as me, I would be out of a job.
-Steve Nash
by Red Shadow on Nov 5, 2009 9:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like him to admit he has no business playing OC on top of HC
his mind is too distracted during the game to actually call plays and be objective … he can’t see what he needs to see and figure out what plays to call while he’s busy screaming for someone to snap the freaking ball, now can he?
his playcalling itself has been atrocious all year long … he fired Gailey (who was the best thing the team had going for it) then scrapped the whole playbook and system with TWO WEEKS before the season started then wonders why guys are confused about the plays (see: Cassel, Matt vs Raiders, Oakland just before halftime)
he continues to call horrible plays game after game … but remains the OC … why? if a player was doing as badly as Haley is doing at his job(s) of OC/HC that player would be long gone, and we both know it
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Nov 5, 2009 7:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I suspect
There will be a new OC and a new DC hired in the offseason. Gailey and Pendergast were stop-gaps due to not finding the right people in a limited amount of time. It is perplexing that Gailey was demoted right before the season, but I think nevertheless the situation will be resolved with the right candidate in the offseason.
If everyone worked as hard as me, I would be out of a job.
-Steve Nash
by Red Shadow on Nov 8, 2009 8:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This reminds me of a job I once had
This is a true story, and I have seen an overhaul in management right before my eyes. When I started, most people were doing a half-assed job. But, everyone was having a great time. It was a fun place to work, and I enjoyed it actually in the beginning. Then, the performance of the office started to decline, and a new office manager was brought in. We had the get-to-know-you’s and such in the beginning, where he would talk about the corporate strategy to turn the ship around. The biggest change (as I saw it) was that each employee was held accountable for their performance. As you can imagine, the senior employees didn’t like that idea. They didn’t think it was fair because their track record should speak for itself. All of a sudden, people were uncomfortable in the workplace. And most of the senior employees jettisoned to other companies, and new employees were brought in and trained in the new mentality. I wasn’t a senior employee obviously, but I had been there long enough to know how it was before. Even I was uncomfortable and left shortly after that. It just wasn’t as fun as when I started. I heard the other day that the company is now doing better than ever. I switched career paths and am doing better as well.
You can see the parallels to the Chiefs all over that. I saw it and experienced upper level management change first hand. Even working in the old environment for 6 months, I was a liability because of my “trained” mentality. Someone who starts there now will come in with training of how it is now, and that will be normal to them.
By the way, there were a couple people who remain at the company and have gone through both groups of managers. Those are the people who were the best at their jobs. They did their jobs and nothing else mattered. It was those people that can do it anywhere cause they are meant to do it.
Stepping back and thinking about the Chiefs, this might help some people understand why some of the veterans were removed from the team, thinking on a larger scale.
If everyone worked as hard as me, I would be out of a job.
-Steve Nash
by Red Shadow on Nov 4, 2009 3:43 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I know just what you mean, Red.
A lot of it can come down to personalities. And nobody needs to get bent outta shape because their personalities don’t mesh. Your situation is typical in that the parting of ways usually leads to something better for each.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Nov 5, 2009 8:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
rec'd kray
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Nov 4, 2009 11:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think there's one area we need to agree on.
There is IMO a misunderstanding of what is going on with the two camps. Our camp does not want Haley axed. We don’t want Pioli run out of town. We’re just being realistic.
Sort of reeling you guys back in that are starry eyed and goo goo over Pioli and Haley.
The NFL is a business. So like any corporation if you hired a GM to run say 3M; your new hire is very skilled and very knowledgeable, comes from good stock so to speak. She has a wonderful resume and great credentials. Very impressive. One of the most sought after GM’s in the country. And you were lucky enough to land her.
Then over the course of the first quarter, her leadership skills are causing your company to suffer. Your not turning a profit, your actually turning a loss. But you attribute this to her lack of time on the job and getting acclamated. This is to be expected after all.
So more time goes by. She says all the right things and is very well spoken. She works very hard and cares a lot. But 2nd quarter comes and goes and your company has had only one week with a profit. The rest have all been losses. All of them. Now you become concerned and you wonder how long you can look the other way. After all; her reputation alone grants her leeway. So you continue to let it go. All the way through 2 quarters of business. (Haley says a season has 4 quarters to it just like a fiscal business year does).
But after awhile you realize she has fired several of your employees and brought in her people. But her people are doing no better at all. Do you hold her responsible? Or do you sit by while your company collapses in ruins? Of course you don’t. You hold her responsible for the JOB she was hired to do.
That’s what we are preaching. Stop throwin rose pedals at what Pioli and Haley MIGHT do. What MIGHT happen next year. What we COULD become. Until they actually DO it, we have nothing else to go on but the current results. Bad trades, horrible acquisitions. No defense of our QB who we paid 60 million bucks to get. No receivers of any real quality to help Bowe. No running back worth a crap. A constant losing record.
And I could go on and on. It’s not about running them out of town. It’s about holding them accountable for doing the ONLY thing their hired to do. They have ONE job period. To win. Until that happens they will get their share of the blame. Because after all, if we were winning, they’de be getting all the praise wouldn’t they?
So how is it fair that they only deserve the praise when things are going good and not the blame when we are failing. No one is giving up on them, we are simply holding them accountable for their actions.
Go Haley, Go Pioli and Go Chiefs!!
by krayfish on Nov 4, 2009 4:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I can agree on that
I am all for keeping the management accountable. After all, this is OUR team. Haley is having the expected troubles as a first year head coach. Pioli seems to be constantly trying to improve our personnel (even if it is by an inch instead of a yard). I am not happy with our record, but I expected it. Anyone who expected our record to be better, wasn’t thinking logically or realistically. I am anxious to see what Pioli will do with an entire off-season. Should be interesting. As for Haley, if his troubles continue through the end of the season, I will be worried for his job.
If everyone worked as hard as me, I would be out of a job.
-Steve Nash
by Red Shadow on Nov 4, 2009 4:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think there is a misunderstanding at all. I understand you completely. I think a better comparison instead of 3M would be GM. You wouldn’t put a new leader in place at GM and think they would turn it around in a year, let alone 4 or 5 months. I would want them to stop the bleeding in the first year. I would expect to see some improvement a little farther along when the system has been around a while and the right guys are in place.
Sure, there are some that are “throwing rose petals” but they are just as unrealistic as those that bash every god damned move that Pioli or Haley make. I’m not asking for anyone to do that, and I’m not asking to blindly follow or to not hold them accountable, but give them some f’ing time to get something done.
by JComp11 on Nov 5, 2009 12:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
RED SHADOW!!
By the way. You have an exceptional attitude. I mean that. You presented your case with emotion and feeling and logic. You didn’t get offended by the rebuttals which can at times be harsh on here.
You respected opposing opinions. I have to say that you made me feel kind of ashamed for the way I acted when I first started posting. Your a better man than I am. I’m proud to call you my brother.
You Upamnt and Matt Grbac..1970 and hmills are the best…stick around keep posting we need more class acts on here like you.
HOw’s that for being serious?
by krayfish on Nov 4, 2009 4:48 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
Is that poor taste that I rec'd that post?
Thanks for the positive feedback. I will continue to read AP and post as much as I can.
I appreciate it. Thanks for debating with me today…made my day go faster.
If everyone worked as hard as me, I would be out of a job.
-Steve Nash
by Red Shadow on Nov 4, 2009 4:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
also rec'd kray - even though I sometimes disagree with you ...
… and thus far totally disagree with Red Shadow… it’s all about class and manners
(some of your jokes, kray …. well, maybe we can work on that)
\
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Nov 4, 2009 8:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
by the way...everyone
I’m sorry i posted the same comment twice…my computer locked up and it didn’t show the first one posted….I didn’t mean to post almost identical comments…I apologize to everyone
by krayfish on Nov 4, 2009 4:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Just want to say this...
It is NOT like I was expecting the Chiefs to come out of the gauntlet victorious or even winning half of the games. Here is where the problem is in a nutshell. This football team has shown NO IMPROVEMENT over last year. None, zilch, zip, nada. In fact, if you gauge the way we played against san Diego last year vs this year, we have gotten worse…A LOT WORSE. 30 points per game worse!
We were promised a smart, tough, fast, hardworking football team and we have gotten a big pile of dog crap. Haley, along with all of the rest of the coaching staff appear to be grossly incompetent and to be honest, I don’t think this organization is going to improve as a whole until Todd Haley is gone and we get a real Head Coach. I know that is going to piss some of you off but, that is what it looks like to me.
When a team sucks, it is usually more because of a poor coaching staff than poor players. These guys are PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL PLAYERS! They have talent just like all the rest of the players in the NFL have. the difference is the coaches on the other teams are better than ours. Even a bad team with a good coach can put up solid efforts week after week. Our team is NOT doing that. Getting blown out by a division rival is unexcusable.
I’m going to say it and I h8 it as much as the rest of you but, Todd Haley is just as bad of a Head Coach as herm edwards…if not worse. There. I said it.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Nov 4, 2009 5:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Nah...
Herm Edwards perfected the run, run, incomplete pass, punt and the run, run, draw on 3rd and long, punt routine. He was too old school, and the game passed him by. He only changed when his job was on the line, and I still think that was more Gailey than Edwards. Regardless, it was a very boring, unsuccessful brand of football.
If everyone worked as hard as me, I would be out of a job.
-Steve Nash
by Red Shadow on Nov 4, 2009 6:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
oh but this 1-6 start and bottom of the league in just about every category is success???
Haley is unfit as HC and from what I’ve seen so far, unfit as OC … his rants at players are well documented, he treats players like dirt then “expects” them to respect him and why?
and while we’re on the topic of run run incomplete pass, how about “LJ up the middle for no gain, LJ up the middle for a loss, Cassel is sacked and the Chiefs have to punt once again”
please
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Nov 4, 2009 8:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, you and others keep using this “treat players like dirt” but the majority of players respond positively. Get over it. He’s not the only coach that coaches like that.
by JComp11 on Nov 5, 2009 12:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
great post, well thought out and all that ...
… and I just totally disagree with, well … pretty much all of it
I think Haley has dragged this team down, killed what little spirit the players had, screwed up was was a damned good start to a rebuild and in general ruined what was just beginning last year …
… oh, and I disagree as well with your initial “… how terrible Herm Edwards was” … in fact, I think what Herm did last year (teamwise, not on the sidelines on game day) was damned good, it was a renewal, young kids and a start on a long-needed rebuild that, sadly, has been trashed in favor of … well, it’s a mess from what I can see
don’t even start with the “Herm had 3 years” bit because he didn’t (we all know that reality) nor do I want to hear the “Haley should get more time and what did you expect and blah blah blah” bogus argument … Pioli and Haley are killing this franchise
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Nov 4, 2009 8:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
"Pioli and Haley are killing this franchise"
How do you kill what was already dead?
I hope you remember these words down the road.
by jmcgoblue on Nov 4, 2009 10:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"How do you kill what was already dead?" hire Paul Wiggins ....
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Nov 5, 2009 12:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How about this
I’m a teacher and have been told by almost every administrator that I’ve ever worked for that when you start a new year or class you have to “Go Slow so that you can Go Fast”. The idea is that you have to train the class to do things the way you want. So the first month or so you spend teaching them “how to be students in your class” as opposed to jumping right into the curriculum. What has been proven is that teachers who do this end up covering more material by the end of the year then teachers who jump right into the “work” right away because they don’t have to constantly stop to explain what they want and what the students are expected to do. The other that is proven in the classroom is that you are MUCH better off being strict to start out the year so the students know thay can’t get away with crap and then letting up a little as the year goes on. It is impossible to start out all “buddy buddy” and then try to crack the whip later on. The students won’t by it if you try to get “hardcore” if you’ve been to friendly to start off. I’ve had several “problem” students over the years and the best way to handle them is to ride them like a pony until you break them and let them know they have to do things your way. I think you can see all these things working right now in the Haley coaching era. If he stays the course it will pay off down the road.
It's a good thing Pioli and Haley aren't running AP or a lot of you guys would of been traded or cut for cast offs from the Pats Pulpit.
by KCporkchop on Nov 4, 2009 8:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
what's funny is ...
I’m also a teacher, have been for 20 yrs … and if I were to treat my kids the way Haley has treated these players I’d have been on the street long ago
moreover, if any Admin were to treat any teacher or parapro the way Haley treats the Chiefs that Admin would be gone in a heartbeat
Haley: he’ll be gone by end of the year … nonrenewed contract (though I’d find a way to move him at “semester break”)
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Nov 4, 2009 8:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
disagree
now clearly a teacher can’t cuss and yell like Haley has done, I’ll give you that, but you can be just as strict without the cussing. I would also argue that when you are dealing with million dollar egos like those in the NFL you are going to have to be that much more strict to get through.
Let me ask you this: If you’ve got a really smart kid in your class, do you let him do whatever he wants and just give him an A? I hope not. If the poor kid that sits next to him that isn’t near as smart has to do all the homework assignments, follow your instructions, etc. to get an A then the smart kid has to too. That’s what I see Haley doing. Players like DJ don’t just get to play because they have talent why guys like McGraw and and Williams have to bust their butts to see the field. Everybody has to bust their tail. Everybody has to do things the right way (play the scheme, stick to their assignments, etc.). Nobody gets to be lazy. Nobody gets to throw the plan out the window to try and be a hero. In the long run a team that has all its members playing with that attitude will outplay a lazy team with more talent.
Haley and Pioli each have a part in making us a winner. Pioli has to increase the amount of talent on the roster and Haley has to instill this work ethic and attitude.
It's a good thing Pioli and Haley aren't running AP or a lot of you guys would of been traded or cut for cast offs from the Pats Pulpit.
by KCporkchop on Nov 4, 2009 10:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well then they should have gotten us some real "talent" to work with...
there were plenty of available FA’s …LOTS and LOTS of them at one point. And Porkchop listen, I hear your points. It’s great. I hope your right. But again, your saying things that you can’t prove.
The REAL truth is that we don’t know shit about why DJ is sitting. We don’t anything really at all about anything to do with our Chiefs. Oh except for one thing – we are statistically the second worst team in the NFL and we’ve only won one game – even though we dominated the RAiders and still came out losers. That’s coaching.
I understand your need to feel optimistic. We all have the same need. We just want to win. That’s it. Same as you. But read your comment again and tell me where you can quote Haley or Pioli to back up your ASSUMPTIONS. Cause that’s all they are.
So is everybody else’s comments about Haley and Pioli and how their doing “this” or “that” and how their “plan” is teaching the right way to do things. You and I don’t have a fucking clue what their plan is or how they run the team behind closed doors. You wouldn’t know if he had them dress up like Raggedy Ann and sing the “good ship lolly pop” song every day at practice.
You wouldn’t know if he made them watch Spongebob everyday for inspiration. That’s where I draw the line and get irritated. People spewing out opinions like their facts. The ONLY facts are the stats including our record. That’s all we have to go on. There is nothing else. The rest is speculation about what someone thinks they “might” be doing and why. We just don’t know. So until I see actual real IMPROVEMENT I’m not going to drink the kool aid.
All I’m asking for is to see something real happen first. Then I’ll be right there with you. I need that to happen I want that to happen, just like you do.
by krayfish on Nov 5, 2009 7:35 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
rec'd kray, good job!
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Nov 5, 2009 7:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I teach, too, guys.
And as a long-time teacher, you learn NOT to offend students. You hold them accountable, sure, but are specifically enjoined NOT to berate, belittle, or otherwise do anything to hurt anybody’s feelings. And you learn that there are ways to inspire learning withOUT bein’ an asshole about it. And that’s what strikes me about Haley (and other coaches).
But football is more like war than teaching, with all due respect to all warriors who might read this. There’s a certain insanity that must be cultivated, in order to win against the other 11 guys who are dead set ag’in’ ya, and bodies are flying around and into each other.
With MY background, I’d generally be calmer with my guys than most coaches, but uncompromising in my evals. To me, that’s the bottom line. I’m not mad at anybody, I’m not disappointed in anybody. I’m just frank when I tell ‘em straight up that they ain’t cuttin’ it.
But I’ve never played much organized ball, but enough street ball to know how guys talk to guys in the heat of the moment, and how you can shock an outsider with some of the things you say to your brothers, even though neither you nor your brother think anything of it.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Nov 5, 2009 8:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
rec but don't agree :)
we can surmise
that isn’t the case
just like we can surmise a “Black Hole” in space.
Math says that
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Nov 5, 2009 9:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
u got it
thats exactly right. it IS a fine line though. very fine, and i think after a season under his belt, he will tweak a few things here and there that he needs to do better. You have to want to win not only for each other, but a little bit for your coach too. If he drives them too hard, he may lose them. I think he’s on the right track, just might need to tone it down a bit. You have to have a blance of the neagive feedback and the positive reinforcement. Most great coaches have this ability…
by be cee on Nov 5, 2009 4:16 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
He talks all the time about putting systems in place...
Getting everything tickin’ along, even if (especially if) you have your own unique ideas that you always wanted to try, but never had the opportunity to try, and now can try. If Haley’s anything like I am, he prob’ly had convinced himself of quite a few ideas being better than they actually are. But if the similarity extends further, he is honest with himself and is willin’ ta crap-can the clunkers. He still has the benefit of the doubt in my book.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Nov 5, 2009 8:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably too late for this to be seen but...
You have to have a blance of the neagive feedback and the positive reinforcement.
From a recent article on Bowe:
Bowe said that Haley, tough as he is on him, never forgets to praise Bowe after even the most grueling practice.
by bh13 on Nov 8, 2009 3:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
to answer jcomp and other about giving my new GM of my company time to fix things..
I say this -
If my new GM didn’t want us to expect immediate good results then my new GM shouldn’t come in first day on the job and run her mouth about how this company is “NOT REBUILDING”. We are going to start winning immediately. We will compete NOW!
You don’t talk shit if you can’t back it up. Had they come here and said “we have a lot of evaluating to do and a lot of rebuilding to do, be patient with us thru these early growing pains”…we’de be cool. They CHOSE to tell us all to expect to see change IMMEDIATELY!!
So don’t come down on us for believing Pioli, after all we’re supposed to trust him right?? At least according to you.
by krayfish on Nov 5, 2009 7:27 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
when did they say "We are going to start winning immediately"?
Maybe they did say that, but I don’t recall. The one quote I remember from Haley is saying something like “We’re going to have to play ugly & scrap to find ways to win.” which to me implies that the talent isn’t there yet.
Sorry, but immediate turnarounds are the exception, not the rule. Miami & Atlanta did it last year, but that’s only because they both had extremely weak schedules to work with…they’re both looking pretty average this season (and that’s WITH an additional draft of players in the system).
by jmcgoblue on Nov 5, 2009 8:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Just a couple.
This year is a new year. I’m going to be about trying to win games, do everything possible to give us the best chance to win games. That’s the bottom line. I know it’s pretty basic. It’s what I’m going to follow. I know that it’s what Scott is going to follow. We’re going to be about what we can do to win games. It’s going to start with one. At this point, we haven’t won a game here as Kansas City Chiefs. And that’s going to be our goal, to figure out a way to win one game at this point."
PIOLI: "We don’t believe in the rebuilding term. This is something we really feel is in the best short term and long term interest of the Kansas City Chiefs and the program we’re moving forward with right now."
If it doesn’t look pretty, it is not going to matter to me if it’s a W (win). We are going to do what we have to, to give us the best chance to win. If that is three yards and a cloud of dust, we don’t turn the football over and we play great defense, I’ll be the happiest guy sitting here after games."
HALEY: "I’m just trying to win games. I’m trying to do my part to win games this year."
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Nov 5, 2009 9:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"we're trying to win" versus "we're going to win"
Sorry, but nobody ever said they expect to win lots of games this year, they said they are trying to…there’s a big difference.
Personally, I’m seeing a lot of progress so far…I definitely haven’t agreed with everything I’ve seen from Pioli/Haley, but I do think they are setting the team up for long term success, which is what I want.
by jmcgoblue on Nov 5, 2009 9:56 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
and you can sit there with a straight face and tell me that Mike Goff gives us THE BEST CHANCE TO WIN?
wow … really?
yanno, if Haley TRULY wanted to “do his part” to win he would never have fired Chan Gailey … instad, he’s have let the OC who knows how to be an OC do what he did so well, and then he (Haley) could concentrate on “his part” of TRYING to learn how to be HC instead of screaming and demoting players … accountability? not for Todd …
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Nov 5, 2009 7:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think we're seeing on the field WHY Gailey was
fired demoted. Maybe he wasn’t THE problem. Prob’ly wasn’t. But I think Haley saw that it wasn’t working, and I think WE are seeing that the demotion didn’t fix it. Concensus around the league appears to be that
- KC has poor team speed.
All the rest is just background noise.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Nov 5, 2009 8:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
we know there's no speed in LJ ... but Haley runs him out week after week
mills, I respect you and your opinions (even when we disagree) … and I won’t say that Gailey would have had this team doing “x” amount better (not that they could do worse) but I will say, in no uncertain terms, Haley has no business taking on the OC job in addition to HC job – it’s simply too much for him and it’s hurting the team
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Nov 5, 2009 9:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I hear ya.
And since a negative can never be proven, saying the OC job is too much for him is in line with poor offensive performances, to date. But I think close watchers of the team will remember how, when Haley had his old man in for a look, the sense was that they were still a year or three away from having the trenches where they needed to be on the defensive side. And considering how well the d-line was doing in camp versus the o-line…
Everything I’ve seen from Haley suggests he’s a systems guy, and well aware of the time mgmt issues he faces, and knowledgeable as to how to manage them. I’m givin’ him some more time.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Nov 5, 2009 10:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kray and NJ I've got to call "horse pucky"
First, I have heard Pioli say in at least two interviews that (I’m paraphrasing) he couldn’t promise when things would get better, but that what he could promise was that they would work as hard as possible until they do. Now I can look up the exact quotes if it would make you feel better, but they’ve been discussed on here before. That is as honest and up front as you can get. In the quotes you listed above there is even a reference to thinking about the short term and long term interests. I take that to mean that they would like to win now but they are also trying to lay the foundation for the future. I’m fine with people questioning specific moves even if I don’t agree with their argument. The problem I have is this claim that Haley and Pioli are trying to “dupe” us and that they don’t care if we win any games this year. I don’t see how you can watch Todd Haley coach with all that fire and emotion that he gets blasted for and think he’s not trying or wanting to win. I don’t know how you can watch Pioli bring in player after player trying to find guys that will improve the team and think he isn’t trying to win more games this year.
Second, Kray my man, I’m going to take issue with your reply to my earlier post. You are basically saying that I don’t have anything to back up my position that Haley wants all players to give there best effort 100% of the time. Are you kidding me?
Analogy time! My 4 year old son comes to me and asks for a cookie. I say no, it’s too close to dinner time. I leave the room. 2 minutes later there is a crash in the kitchen. I go in and find a chair pushed up to the kitchen counter, the cookie jar is broken on the floor, and my son is cowering in the living room with tears in his eyes. Was I in the room to see what happened? No. Do I have to make some assumptions about what went down? Yes. Is it possible my 80 lbs basset hound pushed the chair over to the counter and climbed up and broke the cookie jar? Maybe (she’s really fat though). I can use common sense and observations to make a pretty safe guess about what happened.
Same thing with what Haley is doing as coach. Haley in just about every damn press conferense he’s done has preached consistancy. He has said numerous times that he doesn’t want “yo-yo” players. He has consistantly praised players who give 100% on every single play. These same players are making their way into the starting line up. He has preached being mentally tough and eliminating mental errors. Can you argue any of those points? You may not agree with the philosophy or think he is doing anything to actually improve in those areas, but I think we can at least agree that he has said those things numerous times.
Now let’s see if we can combine those statements with events that are fact and see if logic can give us some answers here.
Haley has preached consistancy and giving 100% effort on every play.
combined with
DJ has always been critisized by Chief fans for disappearing for large portions of games.
combined with
DJ has seen his playing time reduced under Haley.
You’re telling me I can’t reasonably come to a conclusion as to why DJ isn’t playing as much?
Let’s do another.
Haley has consistantly talked about not making mental errors.
combined with
Our free safety who was notorious for blown coverage and missing tackles gets cut.
or
Our star WR who is notorious for dropping balls gets benched
or
Mark Bradley, arguably the second most talented WR on the team gets benched after dropping balls and not running routes long enough to get first downs
Again, I can’t make a reasonable assumption about why these things happened? I’m suppose to believe it’s because they wouldn’t sing “the good ship lollipop” as you suggested?
Come on Kray, I’m fine with questioning specific moves like should DJ see less playing time if he’s not playing consistant or should Haley of benched Bowe in the preseason, etc. But to say that we don’t have any idea about what Haley is trying to get the team to buy into is like saying I don’t have any idea what happened to the cookie jar.
It's a good thing Pioli and Haley aren't running AP or a lot of you guys would of been traded or cut for cast offs from the Pats Pulpit.
by KCporkchop on Nov 5, 2009 10:03 AM CST reply actions 6 recs
Make this post its own fanshot so we can continue this
without having to search for the thread please!
If everyone worked as hard as me, I would be out of a job.
-Steve Nash
by Red Shadow on Nov 5, 2009 10:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
*Fanpost
If everyone worked as hard as me, I would be out of a job.
-Steve Nash
by Red Shadow on Nov 5, 2009 10:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent points porkchop!
I agree with Shadow in wishing that you’d create a fanpost on this subject although it might become very heated. It is very hard to see the trees in this forest that we have going on right now.
by ttownmikey on Nov 5, 2009 8:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"Haley has consistantly talked about not making mental errors"
while making more than anyone on the team with his inexcusable play-calling and clock mismanagement …
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Nov 5, 2009 7:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Fanpost or not
I do like rec comments
You have become in a short time , IMO, a very reasonable voice of reason :)
Keep it coming PorkChop
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Nov 5, 2009 10:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the kind words guys
I’m working on a fanpost that will include some of this same stuff but it may take me a day or two to get it out (I’m swinging for the fences on this one :-). Great post Red Shadow
It's a good thing Pioli and Haley aren't running AP or a lot of you guys would of been traded or cut for cast offs from the Pats Pulpit.
by KCporkchop on Nov 5, 2009 10:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
a most excellent piece of writing
wrecked
I very much agree and am constantly dumbfounded by the way a lot of negative analysis goes on. I’ve been pretty optimistic all along about how things might go this year, but I really don’t think I’ve ever picked us as being better than 2-5 at this point in time. There is still a lot of football left to be played this year.
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
10/28--The Koolaid buzz is beginning to wear off. Maybe drop this back to my original thoughts on the year. Chiefs go 6-10 (and that my be optimistic!). LJ gets a restraining order to stay 1400 yards away from the Chiefs. I'll let the rest stand for now.
by Zodeman on Nov 5, 2009 10:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I am cowering with tears in my eyes right now
Because I am so happy to agree with a post 100% for once (my own included lol).
If everyone worked as hard as me, I would be out of a job.
-Steve Nash
by Red Shadow on Nov 5, 2009 10:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Brought tears to MY eyes, too. But for entirely different reasons! ;o)
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Nov 5, 2009 8:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bowe's demotion.
This isn’t aimed at sending Bowe a message, although I reckoned it did. I think it’s more a matter of applying a set of criteria evenly to all, with emphasis on the mental over the physical, at least to a greater extent than previously. Haley would rather have Mike Brown at SS than Bernard Pollard, for instance.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Nov 5, 2009 8:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm just sayin' that I think people are WAY over-interpreting the psychology, when there's probably something
a whole lot more real and common sensical underlying the decisions we imbue with drama.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Nov 5, 2009 8:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Closest thing to a prediction I remember hearing was a Haley interview in which he said...
… that he expected to win at home and to try like hell to steal some games on the road.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Nov 5, 2009 10:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
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