Has Jarrad Page Played his Last Game as a Chief?
by Joel Thorman on Nov 4, 2009 8:33 AM CST
in 2009 Campaign
72 comments
Prior to this season, the Kansas City Chiefs secondary was an area of strength many of us pointed to when talking about the defense of the future. All four players, two safeties and two corners, had been drafted in the last three years, played up to, or near, their billing coming out of college and generally played at a level that was considered acceptable for a fanbase that saw one of the NFL's worst defenses trotted onto the field every week.
Then the Chiefs spent a fourth round pick on a defensive back. No big deal, really, since special teams play is a point of emphasis with head coach Todd Haley and it's not unusual for mid-round defensive backs to be part of the special teams unit.
Then Bernard Pollard was released. Change of scheme, inability to cover, attitude problems - pick your poison for Pollard's release.
Now Jarrad Page hits IR and is done for the year. He was already on a one year contract, a tender offered to the Chiefs over the offseason, so it makes you wonder if Page is done with the Chiefs.
A couple weeks ago, Kent Babb of the Kansas City Star penned an item looking at how Haley views injuries. Basically, Babb writes, he views them as a sign of weakness.
"Haley has made it clear that the way players react to injuries might determine their futures in Kansas City," Babb wrote. "If players nurse their wounds too long or report minor issues as long-lasting problems, Haley takes mental notes."
Page had been bothered by a shoulder injury earlier in the season. It caused him to miss the Redskins game. The following game, against the Chargers, however, the Chiefs safety was a healthy scratch.
"I think he was healthy enough to play," Haley said of Page after the game. "I thought McGraw played really well the last couple of weeks when he’s been in there. It’s a roster deal there where we’re trying to juggle a lot of different spots."
Before the season ending injury, Page had already been a healthy scratch. Before the season ending injury, Haley had made it clear, for better or worse, that injuries will not be tolerated. Before the season ending injury, Page was a Herm guy, which hasn't won anyone any favors during the Haley/Pioli era.
I think it's possible that this is the last of Page in Kansas City, which means...cue the college free safety tapes for April.
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All he has done is play well for the Chiefs.
Pioli better have an upgrade before he lets this guy go.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Nov 4, 2009 8:39 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
hes a 7th round pick turned starter. I will not be happy if he isnt a Chief next year. hell hes why Im tomahawk44 :) The guy flat out lays the wood too..
by tomahawk44 on Nov 4, 2009 8:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
???
If by constently missing tackles, gettin burnt deep and being out of position then yes he sure does LAY THE WOOD!! LOL Dont get me wrong he has been a good “value” but he’s not a FS
may be better off @ SS
by emmy12 on Nov 4, 2009 10:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
by laying the wood I mean he hits hard
by tomahawk44 on Nov 4, 2009 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i know what u meant and yes he does hit hard but there is much more to playing safety then “layin the wood” and he does do much else very good. serviceable yes good definately not. Its hard to “lay the wood” when ur out of position or chasing someone from behind thats burnt u!
by emmy12 on Nov 4, 2009 10:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
But connecting the dots, it wouldn’t surprise me if this is it.
by Joel Thorman on Nov 4, 2009 8:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1.
Of course, I would’ve said the same about Pollard before he was cut (and wound up going to Houston, where all he has done is play well for the Texans).
by JacinB on Nov 4, 2009 9:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Texans are happy with Pollard
But they have even referenced the fact that he’s not very good in coverage and is overplaying his hand when it comes to the run
by Clam Hammer on Nov 4, 2009 12:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Add 12 lbs
and a move to LB’er would cure all Pollards ills. imo.
by JohnNdallas on Nov 4, 2009 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I feel like they are making the road longer for themselves
I understand maybe they don’t want guys like Page and Tank and Pllard starting for them but I feel like they are talented enough players and young enough to contribute, at least in a back up role.
I just feel liek they are makign the team thinner to bring in “their guys.” I think they should be given time to build their team don’t get me wrong, but why not try to make Tank into a Nose Tackle? He showed a lot of progress. You keep him and theoretically, your D Line is built and you can add for depth. With Hali being a suprise at LB you can save a spot there as well. I they add another pass rushing LB to replace Vrable then they are looking good up front.
But now Nose is an area of need. So more work to do.
Please help send my girlfriend to Broadway! Visit http://magonbroadway.blogspot.com/
by Patrick Allen on Nov 4, 2009 8:44 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
i hear ya
it sure does seem like the “rebuilding” has been more difficult than it had to be.
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Nov 4, 2009 8:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I just can't believe they couldn't get something for Pollard
If there wasn’t a market for him when they dropped him they could have at least kept him on board until someone needed Safety help and then unleaded him for a mid round pick.
Now he is starting and contributing to a 5-3 team and we are weak at Safety. I just don’t get it.
Please help send my girlfriend to Broadway! Visit http://magonbroadway.blogspot.com/
by Patrick Allen on Nov 4, 2009 8:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
^5
I always felt that Pollard was the better of the two. Haley screwed the pooch on that one. Never been that impressed w/Page. That’s not to say that the Chiefs are better w.o him now.
by JohnNdallas on Nov 4, 2009 9:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
At the risk of starting something
I think a lot of Chiefs fans have been so excited that Page out performed his 7th round draft spot that they see everything good he does as some kind of “bonus”. If Page was a free agent that Pioli/Haley brought in and was playing the same way I think a lot more fans would feel the same about the guy as I do, which is “meh”. He’s not bad, he’s not that good either. He’s an average player on a talent starved team, which probably means that league-wise he’s a below average starting FS. If they can resign him cheap and have him compete for the starting job / provide depth then great, resign him. If he wants a big contract and the starter spot handed to him then I would pass.
It's a good thing Pioli and Haley aren't running AP or a lot of you guys would of been traded or cut for cast offs from the Pats Pulpit.
by KCporkchop on Nov 4, 2009 8:51 AM CST reply actions 5 recs
He does not suck.
Page has played in 53 career games (39 starts) with the Chiefs, producing 204 tackles (179 solo), a sack (-3.0 yards), 10 interceptions for 69 yards, 24 pass deflections, four forced fumbles, three fumble recoveries and one quarterback pressure.
He also has17 special teams tackles
Keep him or upgrade. Don’t just dump him, especially when we have enough holes to fill already.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Nov 4, 2009 8:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why does anyone think we're planning to dump him?
He was the starting FS before he got injured & went on IR. He’s nothing special, but he is a solid young player, and it seems that the team recognizes that.
by jmcgoblue on Nov 4, 2009 9:01 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
and it seems that the team recognizes that.
Except they started McGraw over a healthy Page last game.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Nov 4, 2009 9:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But ...
… if they put him on the IR, was he really that healthy?
by JacinB on Nov 4, 2009 9:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There are two injuries
Page was nursing a shoulder injury before the San Diego game. He was injured again on Thursday. All we know is that it is a “calf injury.”
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
by RDOGuy on Nov 4, 2009 9:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Haley said he was healthy enough to play.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Nov 4, 2009 10:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes... but that was only about the shoulder injury
The calf injury is of unknown severity. There are two possibilities: One, it is serious, and Page will be unable to play the rest of this season. Two, it isn’t all that serious, but Haley wants to get other players on the roster – either in Page’s position or elsewhere. Teams aren’t supposed to use IR as a place to stash players… but let’s be real: it happens all the time.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
by RDOGuy on Nov 4, 2009 10:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Haley's definition of injuries...
Is different from what this team is used to, though. Haley’s healthy could be a Herm/Vermeil “doubtful/out”.
by go_saleaumua on Nov 4, 2009 10:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you KCporkchop
He’s outperformed his 7th rd draft spot, but he’s not a Pro-Bowl caliber safety. He’s helped beat the Raiders with INTs in the end zone a couple of times. He’s an average safety, he’s no game changer.
2009-10 Predictions:
1. Chiefs will win ATLEAST 6 games, which is a big improvement over 6 wins in 2 seasons
2. Succop will bring stability to the K position for the first time in years
3. Chiefs D will atleast double the number of sacks form last season
4. Cassel will be a top 15 QB
5. Todd Haley won't make a poster and jump around holding it up welcoming the Chiefs players to summer camp, I mean TRAINING camp
by Chiefs_KC on Nov 4, 2009 10:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
nice KCporkchop
someone gets it and actually pays attention to the games! page’s bad plays WAY outnumber his good. he’s playing out of postion IMO. hits like a SS runs like a SS but plays FS???? there lies the problem! agreed if they can keep him cheap do it but dont pay him dollars he hasn’t and probably wont earn!
by emmy12 on Nov 4, 2009 10:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn’t he a SS for part/most of his college career?
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
by go_saleaumua on Nov 4, 2009 11:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yep exactly!!!!
he lacks the speed and cover skills to play FS in the NFL. FS have to be ball hawks! only time he is “ball hawking” so far in his career have been against the raiders. THATS IT!
by emmy12 on Nov 4, 2009 11:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Im really
starting to get pissed off with all this losing then what they are doing to our players….I just dont see the “big” picture i guess……?
Great players dont win championships.....Great TEAMS win championships
by DT58forever on Nov 4, 2009 8:57 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
they haven't done anything to page yet for you to be pissed about
joel is just starting a discussion. he’s a decent player but he’s not irreplaceable. when john mcgraw starts in his place and you can’t really tell a difference, that doesn’t particularly look good
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Nov 4, 2009 9:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Everything adds up my friend
Pioli and Haley want their own “53 right players” not something they inherited. Larry’s right, their egos are bigger then they should be, they are letting go of solid YOUNG players, and bringing in old players who have lost a step.
by ChiefsFanInTexas on Nov 4, 2009 10:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what makes page irreplaceable?
i don’t think he will be let go because he will still be a restricted free agent if there’s no cap next year but it’s not like he’s ed reed and anyone else will be a for sure downgrade. i don’t think they’re getting rid of people just because they were brought in by the previous regime. if these players had proven to be high impact players that were ascending in their careers, i’m pretty positive they’d be part of the long term plans here
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Nov 4, 2009 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutley agree
How many of these conversations would you see on the Ravens blog about Ed Reed? None. Because without a doubt is an insane Safety. No room for discussion. The fact that this is even argument concerning Page indicates that at worst he is a questionable talent. Personally, I like him and hope he sticks around. But doif they do cut him, does it mean Pioli/Haley don’t know their head from their ass? Of Course not.
by Fourstrike89 on Nov 4, 2009 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The title question to this thread was
“Has page played his last game as a Chief”, the answer may not lay with Haley/Pioli or Pages skills. If the injury is as Babb described (tore his calf muscle from the bone) it may be (God forbid) that it’s a career ending injury.
by JohnNdallas on Nov 4, 2009 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
holy crap
i hope for his sake it’s not career threatening. even if it’s not here, i hate for players to not be able to play for things like this. btw, i’m pretty sure haley wouldn’t view missing time with this particular injury as any sort of weakness. that has to hurt like hell. godspeed, jp
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Nov 4, 2009 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I think "our" players are the reason the teams been losing...
I’m all for a major overhaul if it will produce a winning team in the future. Honestly, how many players on the Chiefs would be starters for the Colts, Saints, etc. Probably less than 5 and they wouldn’t be playing the position they’re currently playing (i. e. Alberts would be LG or RT)
2009-10 Predictions:
1. Chiefs will win ATLEAST 6 games, which is a big improvement over 6 wins in 2 seasons
2. Succop will bring stability to the K position for the first time in years
3. Chiefs D will atleast double the number of sacks form last season
4. Cassel will be a top 15 QB
5. Todd Haley won't make a poster and jump around holding it up welcoming the Chiefs players to summer camp, I mean TRAINING camp
by Chiefs_KC on Nov 4, 2009 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm curious about the injury
Haley made that comment “I think he was healthy enough to play” and then two weeks later the guy is on IR. I wonder if Page was trying to play hurt to get back his starting spot and ended up hurting himself worse.
It's a good thing Pioli and Haley aren't running AP or a lot of you guys would of been traded or cut for cast offs from the Pats Pulpit.
by KCporkchop on Nov 4, 2009 9:01 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
1st injury was shoulder.
Second was calf.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Nov 4, 2009 9:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm really starting to get annoyed.
When these guys (Haley, Pioli, and their various assistants) arrived, we had a defense that needed improvement, but that had a lot of young guys with a whole helluva lot of potential.
Page, Pollard, Carr and Flowers combined for a pretty vicious secondary, we had some back-ups — Morgan and Leggett — that were rough around the edges but could show flashes of greatness and all that really needed to be beefed up was our D-Line and Linebackers.
Now Page is out and it looks like he’s gone. Pollard is gone (and doing really well elsewhere, and we got nothing out of it).
And what do we have to replace them? Jon McGraw (don’t get me wrong — I like Jon a lot) and Mike Brown?
I’m not going to say that those guys can’t play, because they can. But, Mike Brown looks like he’s lost a step and has a long injury history and Jon McGraw plays hard every down but I still feel like we’re getting worse, rather than better and that one of our previous good areas is quickly becoming an area we need to improve.
Am I alone?
by JacinB on Nov 4, 2009 9:55 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
All speculation
Scott and Todd were paid a lot of money because they can the evaluate talent to fit the scheme they are trying to run. Let the thing play out. We were not winning Superbowls with Carl and Herm and while some of the moves seem surprising; give the guys time. We do not know that Page is gone, he may well be hurt. We all mostly agreed that Scooter Hunt hired the right guys; let their vision play out. If it turns out thet are wrong then I think Eric Mangini might well be available at that tme.
by Exploded on Nov 4, 2009 10:19 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Playing Devil's Advocate here...
But what if Pioli and Haley are onto something? What if we really did have a team that lacked speed and true talent, and that was to some degree overrated to begin with?
I’m not suggesting that Page/Pollard/Tyler/McBride sucked (they don’t), nor am I suggesting that Goff/Brown/Engram are upgrades. I’m saying that I think we, as Chiefs fans, got used to such awful drafting, free agency, and player development over the years that ANY solid find from the draft or on the wire got a “gold star” from the fanbase. When we did luck out, it was even better.
Remember everyone, Jared Allen was drafted partially because he could long-snap. Brian Waters was someone that we took a flyer on because he was a TE with a wide frame and strong hands. Priest Holmes was brought on to be a third-down back (wasn’t Donnell Bennett supposed to carry the water for DV’s offense back then? Correct me there if I’m wrong). All of those moves panned out because of good coaching, and because the players involved wanted to be successful IN KANSAS CITY.
Whatever happened to Will Svitek? How about Samie Parker?…Ryan Sims? Eddie Freeman? Remember how we all wanted them to pan out? Don’t forget big name free agent signings like Carlos Hall, Carlton Gray, Damion McIntosh…we debated on and on about how this player, this pick, this guy would make the difference. And on so many occasions, that didn’t happen.
I’m not on here to suggest that our current leadership is getting everything right. I, too think Pioli and Haley screwed the pooch by letting our offensive line sit pat this offseason (why isn’t Niswanger 15 lbs. heavier and playing RG??). I think Bobby Engram should be coaching our WR’s, not playing with them. I don’t see how Mike Brown is helping our defense out. I’m unsure as to why Tank had to be traded in-season (although I wonder if we were able to grab a higher pick now, since Carolina was desperate).
My point is this: We’ve had a down cycle since the turn of the century, and maybe the only way to turn it around is to do things in a completely different way. Maybe now we’ll see some of those mid-round draft finds and successful wire pickups that Pioli was known for, and won three major awards for, as a member of the Patriots. Maybe we’ll see why Todd Haley rose from scouting department nobody to Super Bowl offensive coordinator. Maybe we’ll see a more talented, deeper, faster KC squad that uses all three channels—the draft, the wire, and free agency—to EFFICIENTLY build a team.
Or maybe not. Like I said, I’m playing devil’s advocate here…and in the middle of a truly bad season. But I think these points need to be made.
shrugs Feel free to disagree.
by go_saleaumua on Nov 4, 2009 10:36 AM CST reply actions 7 recs
We can only hope, but why not? how much worse could it get? The strength of the new organization is all we have on the Browns.
by Exploded on Nov 4, 2009 10:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would argue that our coach is (somewhat) less detestable too.
Haley might be a screamer, and learning on the job…but Mangenius (HAH!) has had about four years to figure it out, and has sold out two good front office friends in the process.
I hope to God “The Secret” doesn’t end up on Haley’s staff.
by go_saleaumua on Nov 4, 2009 10:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
\_/ Heres to hoping!
Excellent post.
by JohnNdallas on Nov 4, 2009 10:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks John...
Nice to see you on AP; I was always a fan of your posts on Gretz’s site. Well, before it got hijacked anyway :)
by go_saleaumua on Nov 4, 2009 10:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what if ... Belichick was the real genius behind the Pats success over the years ...
… and what if Pioli is as clueless as Haley seems to be …
fire both of them now
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Nov 4, 2009 11:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's funny.
You get half a season to turn it around boys! I don’t care if you have no talent on the roster, git ’er done!
I remember Dawson to Taylor, Kenney to Carson, and Blackledge catching the snap in his facemask. Seen it all...
by BinSC on Nov 4, 2009 2:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Then that makes Hoodie Bill a God among coaches...
Because then he’s responsible for player acquisition, drawing up his vision for the team, & leading different position groups as well as being HC. Remember, Belichick did this a number of times during his tenure in NE—QB’s, WR’s, evidently DC as well….Yea, I know there are a lot of coaches out there who have handled both GM and HC roles in the past, but not with added position group responsibilities—to my knowledge, at least.
Hanging everything in NE on Belichick doesn’t jibe—especially when you look at how similar his coaching style, staffs, etc were in Cleveland. The difference appears to be the personnel people he brought on with the Patriots.
Bottom line: I find it hard to believe that Scott Pioli is a total, utter puppet for St. Bill without any solo ability whatsoever. Wouldn’t his peers in other front offices, or members of the media, or the coaching fraternity drawn that conclusion before he ever left the Northeast? I have my problems what’s (not) been accomplished in 2009, sure, but past performance tells me he deserves some patience.
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
by go_saleaumua on Nov 4, 2009 3:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I have my problems WITH what’s (not) been accomplished in 2009
spellin’ error fixed.
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
by go_saleaumua on Nov 4, 2009 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Another One
Another player that will be happy to get away from coach 22
vajazz24
by vajazz24 on Nov 4, 2009 10:38 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
please
dont make another stupid move please
by cainsbigonchiefs on Nov 4, 2009 10:47 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
A quick reality check
Although some of the players let go have SOME legitimate talent, none of them were pro bowl players. Although we have some sentimental value for each of them (I personally like nothing more than to see Page dominate the Raiders), in actuality they were all part of an abismal Chiefs team that we have been forced to suffer through for the last 3 years. There are always comments about “kool aid” drinkers and I guess that I am probably the biggest drinker of them all. But my willingness to chug the kool aid doesn’t come from blind faith, sentimental feelings, or red tinted glasses. It comes from this bottom line fact: The Chiefs have SUCKED for the past three years, and Pioli/Haley are making changes. TIme will tell if these changes were good or bad, but in the meantime I am content with the fact that they are trying to change the suck. Change the suck!!
by Fourstrike89 on Nov 4, 2009 11:05 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Reality check? I'm not so sure.
The Chiefs have SUCKED for the last three years
Forgive me if I am mistaken, but didn’t they have a winning season – and make the playoffs – in the first of those years? Perhaps they weren’t as good as we would have liked in 2006, but they didn’t suck.
Although some of the players let go have SOME legitimate talent, none of them were pro bowl players.
Of course they weren’t. Pollard was in his fourth season. Tyler and McBride were in their third. Is it reasonable to dismiss their talent simply because they didn’t make the Pro Bowl so early in their careers – particularly in the case of DLs like Tyler and McBride?
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
by RDOGuy on Nov 4, 2009 11:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Making the playoffs doesn't mean you don't suck
It just means you sucked a little less than other teams (Broncos come to mind who couldn’t beat the niners to knock us out of the playoffs that year). And do you remember that playoff game? That was the definitition of suck. Plus, going 9-7 while destroying your star RB with 400+ carries does not classify as being good. Lucky maybe, but not good. Especially when two of those wins came by beating a pathetic Oakland team. Either way, I will concede that the Chiefs were not horrible that year, but were definetly on the decline. And the last two years were absolutely disgusting.
And let me rephrase that second qoute. None of the players released ARE pro bowl players. Meaning they may be decent players, but we let no superstars go. We definetly didn’t let go any talent that is irreplacable. And no, you should not dismiss a player because he did not make the pro bowl in his first 3-4 years. But you should let him go if you think you can get better players that fit your scheme. I’ve never seen so many fans become outraged by letting go 2 DLs who have shown very little production released from a team that is a combined 6 and 26 over the two year tenure that they were with the team.
by Fourstrike89 on Nov 4, 2009 1:13 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
We definetly didn’t let go any talent that is irreplacable.
2 points:
1. TG
2. Agree on the rest, but they weren’t replaced.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Nov 4, 2009 1:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
1. tony is the exception there,
But I reserve the right to give judgement on that transaction roughly 2-3 years from now when we see how that second round pick turns out.
2. I would argue that they have been replaced. Are we any worse than when they were on the team? I would love to see some big name proven talent join the Chiefs, but the Chiefs by no means dropped in talent level by cutting those players
by Fourstrike89 on Nov 4, 2009 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
OK...
I certainly do remember that playoff game. I agree that it showed a team in decline, and reflected badly on the game management skills of the head coach. It was an embarassing loss for sure. But “the definition of suck”? I think that’s overstating it.
You are what your record says you are, so I won’t disagree that the 2007 and 2008 Chiefs teams sucked. I imagine, though, that we might disagree on why they sucked.
Obviously P&H felt that McBride, Tyler, Pollard, et. al. did not fit their plans. It’s their team to run, and they will have to live or die by their judgments. I wouldn’t say, though, that I am “outraged.” I would say that I am concerned that so many high draft picks (which include Bowe and Derrick Johnson, both of whom were first rounders) are found wanting by the new administration.
You know… it seems like the most common thing I heard toward the end of last season was, “Well, if we could just get that incompetent head coach out of there so he’d stop screwing things up with his poor game management, these talented young players could really shine!” But now that we have a new head coach – who has, incidentally, done things during games much stupider than anything Herm Edwards ever did – it seems that the most common thing I am hearing is that the Chiefs had no talent on the roster whatsoever. Doesn’t this seem the least bit strange to you?
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
by RDOGuy on Nov 4, 2009 5:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We may have to agree to disagree on the "definition of suck"
Check out the stats for that game http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Indianapolis_Colts_season#Scoring_summary_17
Yards: 435 to 126 – Colts
LJ rush yards: 32 on 13 carries
Manning: 30 of 38 for 268 yards 1 TD
Greene: 14 of 24 for 107 yds, 2 fumbles, sacked 4 times, 1 TD
Joseph Addai yards: 122 on 25 carries, 1 TD
And let’s not forget my all time favorite Chief (sarcasm) Larry Tynes who killed any sort of momentum the Chiefs had going for them by missing a chipshot field goal that literally even I could have made after Ty Law gets them on the 5 yd line with that Manning INT.
If that’s not good enough to define “suck” for you, then you must have a very high suck threshold. Of course we all have pretty high suck thresholds after watching the Chiefs the past 3 years
Also, I was definetly not one of those that thought an incompetent coach and GM ( and they were) was the only thing keeping the Chiefs out of the superbowl. I am one of the people who agree with the often qouted stat of the 30+ players that were on the squad last year and not this year. And how many of those have found a new home? This team was and is still far from a superbowl talent level team, but cutting the best of the worst (the worst of the worst were cut way earlier) is still cutting the worst, no matter how you look at it. Waters, Hali, Page, Flowers, Bowe, Carr, Leggett, Niswanger, and others are still on the team. Pioli/Haley may want their guys, but they are not automatically out just because they were here under Herm.
Finally I agree that you are not outraged, but many have been. And while it is concerning that so many high round draft picks are found wanting by the new regime, I would point back to your statement of “you are what your record says”. Which is more likely? Multiple high pick busts by the former regime meaning the talent level of said picks is truly wanting? Or that the new regime, who has a reputation throughout the NFL and not just KC for being one of the best at evaluating talent, is actually realizing that the talent level in KC is pathetic? I would go with the latter given their record over the past 2 years. I think H&P actually like Bowe or we would have been gone before the trade deadline. I am sure there were teams who made offers. And as far as DJ goes, that talent level has yet to show itself in my opinion. H&P said from the beginning they did not want yo yo players more than anything, and I can’t think of a bigger yo yo player in the league then DJ.
Really finally, name one player that H&P have cut that any other NFL team has “jumped” on. It took Pollard a couple of weeks to sign on with Houston and he cleared all 32 teams waivers. Not one NFL team thought he was worth claiming? And he was the biggest name. Turk was claimed by the lions, but I gaurantee it was only because Gunther was there. If Gunther is not coaching, i bet he goes the same way as Pollard. Ok. Sorry for the LONG post
by Fourstrike89 on Nov 4, 2009 7:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah... that stat about the 30 players is brought up a lot...
but I have yet to see where anyone has compared it to other teams. Without that comparison, it is difficult to draw a lot of real conclusions from it.
And yes… there is one player that other NFL teams have jumped on: McBride. Yes, I agree that it’s likely that Cunningham’s previous history with McBride influenced the Lions’ decision to claim him. But you’re leaving out the fact that two other teams claimed him, too – the Lions were just first in line. So McBride would be playing in the league even if Gunther was at home eating Cheetos.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
by RDOGuy on Nov 8, 2009 6:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
AMEN
If the players that are still here from King Carl days are soooo good then why have we sucked soooo bad! Bottom line is if you cant do the job right u dont have a job here anymore. and they haven’t got rid of ANYONE that was getting the job done on a consistant basis. They have said over and over again that they want smart tough consistant players. WEED EM OUT!!! I for one have to patience to wait and couple years! Cuz thats what it gonna take!!! They are rebuilding for fully not half assed the herm and carl!
by emmy12 on Nov 4, 2009 11:18 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Interesting.
I get the feeling that many fans want the Chiefs to improve, BUT they want it done with their favorite players still on the team. Unfortunately, some of the players we have felt were our “best” players, weren’t really more than average in the NFL. While some point to Page’s interceptions and some big plays, he is more often out of position and usually a step late in coverage. I think his legend has been built with a couple of plays against Oakland that preserved wins. There have been many more games he might have made play to preserve a win, but didn’t/couldn’t.
I think fans are putting too many demands on the Chief’s organization. Want a contender? Then let them build it. You can’t identify any untouchables on a roster that has won 3 games in two years.
I remember Dawson to Taylor, Kenney to Carson, and Blackledge catching the snap in his facemask. Seen it all...
by BinSC on Nov 4, 2009 11:39 AM CST reply actions 4 recs
Unfortunately, some of the players we have felt were our "best" players, weren’t really more than average in the NFL.
Replace them with someone better, and we wouldn’t mind so much. Improve the roster rather than just change it.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Nov 4, 2009 11:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1.
I don’t care if you cut a player I liked as long as you put someone better in his spot.
Trading Tony Gonzales and giving me Sean Ryan in his place is not acceptable. Cutting Bernard Pollard and replacing him with Mike Brown is not good enough. Our revolving door at Wide Receiver for anyone not named Bowe is not cutting it. The revolving door at Linebacker (which has been almost as unstable as WR) isn’t cutting it.
I get that they’re trying to find the ‘right 53 players.’ However, their methods of doing it — bringing in unprovens or has-beens while cutting guys who are better than the guys they brought in — isn’t working and, as a fan, I’m getting fed up with seeing guys getting cut or traded just to make room on the team for a guy who couldn’t make it onto any other team in the NFL (ie: practice squad players and free agents who get cut/released).
by JacinB on Nov 4, 2009 12:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There are reasons
There’s a reason why we lose games in the last 2 minutes of the games, giving up big plays has killed us over and over. There’s a reason that we have trouble stopping the run and pass plays, No one tackles well and the receivers give too much space. I’d love every play on the Chiefs to become better to play up to their potential, but it hasn’t happened yet. We thought the secondary was fine but then why were we giving up the huge plays every game. I’m not saying it is any one players fault, I want to like them really I do, but after seeing bug play after big play given up I have to keep wondering why anyone of them has a job.
We as fans want our favorite players to step up and be as good as we hope they are, but after a time we have to look at what is not working and take care of it. If it can’t be fixed with coaching then we have to look for a replacement, of even our favorites. If anyone on the team can step up, stop the run, break up passes consistently, and stop giving up big plays then I want them as a Chief, but they have to to the job before I’ll get upset about them getting cut or benched.
is it me? or isn't about time the Lamar Hunt trophy belonged to His team?
I’m a Chiefs fan Dammit and I’m damn proud of it!
by KC Fanatic on Nov 4, 2009 11:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So?
Page and Pollard haven’t been in this season. How’s that secondary working out? Are we still giving up big plays and getting beat in the last 2 minutes of games … ?
by JacinB on Nov 4, 2009 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not really.
We haven’t been ahead enough to lose them late. I don’t really see any improvement in the defense at all. Still giving up the homerun plays every game, but to think giving up Page would be hurting our defense is crazy. He has never been part of a good defense in KC. Not all his fault, but he certainly doesn’t make a difference either. Pollard may have been a contributor if Page was significantly better.
I remember Dawson to Taylor, Kenney to Carson, and Blackledge catching the snap in his facemask. Seen it all...
by BinSC on Nov 4, 2009 2:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly!
This regime is cutting players who are way above any talent currently available. This team gets worse everyday. I am getting really fed up with Haley / Pioli.
by choirboy on Nov 4, 2009 12:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Aside from Pollard, who have we actually CUT that we haven't replaced with an equivalent talent?
Pollard drove me nuts for years, but Brown hasn’t looked good since the Baltimore game. Other than that I can’t come up with any examples.
Tony and Tank aren’t examples of cuts…they were traded. The Tony trade looks bad for us right now, but as far as I’m concerned we sold high on Tank Tyler.
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
by go_saleaumua on Nov 4, 2009 3:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ummmm...
Yah Haley and Pioli are messing with the roster… signing a player here, cutting a player there. But think about it. Have we got draft picks for the next draft? Are they signing away all of those? They are doing what they can with the year (which is lost anyways), trying to find some pieces that work, all while planning for the draft.
Pioli is supposed to be the best TALENT EVALUATOR. That is his forte and that is how he will be judged. Most of that comes from the DRAFT. Who cares what he changes around with the losers we have on roster. Pioli/Haley will live and die by next years draft. So start thinking about that.
by Lucasjr5 on Nov 4, 2009 3:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
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