The Chiefs Wake-Up Call
by RDOGuy on Nov 30, 2009 12:33 PM CST
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PrintFrom the FanPosts -Joel
Todd Haley desperately needed the win against the Pittsburgh Steelers.
He needed something concrete to show his players that there is a method to the madness he has unleashed on the team this season.
His team needed to see that his program of discipline and conditioning could give the Chiefs a chance to win a close game against a top-tier team.
The team needed evidence that the new administration's penchant for putting certain players on the field in preference to established Chiefs veterans could pay dividends.
And finally, Haley needed his team to see that he really isn't such a bad guy.
I never would have wished it on them, but Chiefs fans needed Sunday's horrible loss to the Chargers just as desperately. They needed to be reminded that the Chiefs just aren't a very good football team right now.
The win against Pittsburgh didn't change the known facts. Over this season, the Chiefs rank 27th in scoring, and 28th in points allowed. The team is ranked 30th in yards gained and allowed, and 31st both in sacks and sacks allowed.
I could go on, but you've already endured enough this weekend.
As usual, Jason Whitlock would like to take the easy way out, and paint a villain in the loss. After the game, he asked the head coach if he regretted letting his players have Thanksgiving off. Even though Haley temporized in his answer, Whitlock chose to report that Haley did, in fact, regret the decision.
Not only was Whitlock's reportage of Haley's position inaccurate, but the whole question was ridiculous in the first place; Haley did give the team Thanksgiving off, but that was because they had come in and practiced on Tuesday, which is their normal day off.
No… this loss had nothing to do with players eating dinner with their families on Thursday, or being overconfident after the emotional win against the Steelers. To my knowledge, there is no such thing as an overconfident 3-7 football team.
This loss happened because the Chiefs aren't very good yet. As such, they can't afford to give up four turnovers to a team that's just won five games in a row. Truth be told, even if Scott Pioli and Todd Haley turn this team around - which, I must remind you, hasn't happened yet - it will be a rare game indeed that they can afford those turnovers.
I'm as happy as anybody that Jamaal Charles is getting a chance to play, and he is showing that he can be a very exciting and productive player. But he's given up four fumbles in 246 touches. That's 1.6%. For all his other problems, Larry Johnson fumbled on 0.96% of his chances. Priest Holmes coughed it up on 0.75% of his, and Marcus Allen did it on just 0.47% of his.
If he's going to be an every-down back in the NFL, Charles is just going to have to do better.
At first, I felt bad for Matt Cassel. At first glance, it doesn't seem fair to blame the quarterback for an interception that bounces into the stratosphere from a defensive lineman's helmet. But the more I thought about it, I realized Cassel deserved that pick; there are defensive linemen in front of him on every play.
And while I don't wish to excuse Rudy Niswanger a pair of very bad snaps, Cassel is the guy that has to cover them. If you like, you can blame the Chiefs offensive line for those plays. Generally speaking, they stink, too. But Green Bay has given up even more sacks than Kansas City. Even so, Aaron Rodgers has 22 touchdowns against only five interceptions, and has a quarterback rating of 104.9. Cassel has 13 TDs and seven picks, and a rating of 77.6.
So if Cassel wants to be the franchise quarterback Pioli and Haley believe he can be, he's going to have to do better, too.
I could go on... but again, you've suffered enough.
Much as we would all like to believe that a new administration could come in to Kansas City, wave a magic wand and make it all better, that's just not the way it works in the NFL - at least not in the long term. It was fashionable during last season's Chiefs meltdown to point to the Dolphins going to the playoffs after a 1-15 season as proof that with the right people in the front office and the sidelines, anything was possible. Yet the Fins are 5-6 this season.
For all the talk about the NFL being scheme-driven, it really isn't. Oh, sure... schemes are more important than they are in the college game, where the talent level isn't as high. But the fact remains: in the NFL, most games aren't won because there's a genius in the front office or the sidelines. Instead, they're won because individual players win more of their individual battles than the other guys. To be sure, coaches and GMs have a hand in this, too - that's why some coaches and GMs consistently have better records than others. But it still comes down to players winning games.
And right now, most Chiefs players just aren't good enough to win very many of them.
I said after the Pittsburgh win that the character displayed by the Chiefs in that game wasn't going to be enough. I said that they needed more talent and more experience to even come close to a decent record this year. Well... nothing has changed. It is, of course, possible that the Chiefs could win a few games down the stretch, and we'll be able to point to an improved record as progress toward the final goal.
But Sunday's game was the wake-up call for Chiefs fans: there is still a long way to go.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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well written, rec
I don’t fault Charles on that fumble… he was pushing for more yardage, got stood up and forcably stripped… it happens.
He played a good game.
Cassel’s turnovers were mostly fluke plays, and could be attributable equally to the play of the OL…
I don’t like to make excuses, but I wouldn’t make any long term judgements about Charles or Cassel based on the handful of plays that didn’t go their way on Sunday.
San Diego clearly is a better team at this point, and they are on a big-time roll. Hopefully, KC can bounce back and win a couple more games this season and keep building in the right direction.
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
I do blame him. Cause he's the one that fumbled. It's not like he fumbles once in a great while.
he’s a consistent fumbler and that’s never good. He simply HAS to do a better job of protecting the ball if he has ny chance of being around for a long time in this league.
he's now fumbled 4 times EVER
one on a kickoff, one on a catch, 2 when running the ball.
Yes, he needs to protect it better… but I think the “problem” is blown way out of proportion.
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
look at AP
he fumbles A LOT…has more than 5 this season I think. not that this has to do with anything, but im just trying to say jamaal was trying to make a play yesterday, fighting for extra yardage and the guy stripped him. it was a very nice run and he still had a great game despite the loss. if you looked at jamaal from pre-season and then to now, you’d say hes carrying the ball much better. ith appens to the best of the best out there, and jamaal is very young only in his 2nd year. that will be something he will get better at and stag is right, it shouldnt be blown out of proportion the guy is getting the bulk for the first time of his career and frankly, IMHO is doing one hell of a job.
Give Todd Haley a full regular and off-season to build Bowe's Cassel, and we will all wreap the benefits...
agreed!
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
I agree with Charles fumble yesterday.
He was put in a tough situation when he got stood up and stripped. He was putting in great effort which is very commendable. It’s just Chargers defense played well. You have to commend them on that.
LJ falls quickly so theres not a lot of chances to stand him up and strip him.
yup
and what makes me even happier – LJ doesn’t break long wrongs like Jamaal does, and the cherry on top of Jamaals runs is that he doesn’t shy away from contact. That is what makes me most exciting for him.
All I know is yesterday on the run where he got stripped, he executed the play perfectly with Cassel- looked like a delay and the handoff was very pretty. He bounced to the outside gained the 12 yards then immediately got physical. When he got stripped I said to myself damn, we would’ve scored so easily there. WE WERE DRIVING ON THEM WITH NO PROBLEM. Turnovers lost us this game, and for an offense to play from behind like we were is like eating a steak dinner for opposing defensive coordinators. When you know what’s coming it’s a lot easier to call the right plays.
Yesterdays game was like a Madden game. Looked like you were in it from the beginning then one bad play leads to the other and the next thing you know you’re slamming your controller down calling the game bullshit and unfair.
Give Todd Haley a full regular and off-season to build Bowe's Cassel, and we will all wreap the benefits...
forgive my grammar
LJ doesnt break long runs*
theh ell did i get wrong longs from lol
Give Todd Haley a full regular and off-season to build Bowe's Cassel, and we will all wreap the benefits...
Are you having a stroke? jk. lol.
November 22nd 2009: Chiefs win in OT vs the Steelers 27-24. This could be the turning point for the Chiefs to get back to being respected.
by Red N Gold Beast on Nov 30, 2009 1:35 PM CST up reply actions
Ugh.
Don’t get me started on him. He’d better be gone next year.
November 22nd 2009: Chiefs win in OT vs the Steelers 27-24. This could be the turning point for the Chiefs to get back to being respected.
by Red N Gold Beast on Nov 30, 2009 1:39 PM CST up reply actions
i could be
maryjane and i got back together after a 3 month break yesterday. i will be seeing her tonight too.
Give Todd Haley a full regular and off-season to build Bowe's Cassel, and we will all wreap the benefits...
hey stag..wuzzup? anyway
I think he’s our most improved player. I love the guy. But yes I blame him when he does something wrong. I also praise him when he’s awesome. You don’t get to have one without the other. He’s the biggest single star on our team IMO. but he hasn’t played much. So if you take his fumbles into account with the number of carries, he’s a fumbler.
Cause, he’s a fumbler. Haley made no bones about that in pre-season. Charles has a tendency to fumble.
Those mistakes are game changers. If he ran as much as Chris Johnson or Adrian, he’de have way too many fumbles at this rate. But that is something he can work on hopefully. I think I’ve seen a lot of improvement in those areas anyway IMO. He’s gettin’ it.
what's up, buddy.
I try to be balanced in my opinions of a player, but I don’t think “fumbler” is a fair tag, though.
It’s very early in his career, and 4 is NOT that many fumbles
AND, that one on Sunday wasn’t really his fault… was held up by 2 players and stripped… could have happened to ANY RB that was working as hard as he was
Peterson fumbles way more… has 6 fumbles this year (2.6% of his carries)
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
dude
Charles may very well be a habitual fumbler. But, we don’t know this. He simply doesn’t have enough carries for it to be statistically significant. AP fumbles a lot and we know it because he has enough carries to show that he does. Charles just doesn’t yet, so we’ll have to wait and see. And, hopefully, in the meantime he will work on making sure he improves and makes it a non-debatable issue.
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
Yes he has a history of fumbling
but you cannot discount that he has made major improvements in that area. Yesterday’s fumble was nothing like the Jamaal Charles of old.
Four times
That’s not really consistent fumbling. And fumbling is perhaps the most overstated of problems on offense, because it’s really no more harmful than an interception, and you’d never see QBs criticized for throwing interceptions 1.6% of the time.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 30, 2009 2:09 PM CST up reply actions
Perhaps so, BurntOrange
since 2.8% of Peyton Manning’s career pass attempts have been intercepted. But a turnover is still a turnover. I fail to see – especially after watching Sunday’s game – how the significance of a turnover can be overstated.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
The emphasis and criticism devoted to fumbles
It’s a lot higher than same for interceptions. That is, people will criticize a running back all season long for fumbles that one could count on one hand, yet a much, much higher rate of turnover incidence per passing attempt for a QB isn’t likely to be scrutinized unless it’s more like 4-5%.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 30, 2009 3:10 PM CST up reply actions
Perhaps it is simply because
when a QB throws a pass, as a practical matter (and more importantly, by rule) it is anybody’s ball. There’s plenty of room for either the intended receiver or the defenders to move in different directions than the QB expects in the second or two the ball is in the air. A lot can happen – and often does.
However, a running back, receiver or punt returner is supposed to take care of the ball. It’s his, and no one is supposed to take it away from him. While we’ll all agree that even when a player has the ball wrapped up just the way he’s supposed to, an enterprising defensive player can still strip it away, good skill players don’t let it happen nearly as often.
In the case of Charles’ fumble on Sunday, he did not have it wrapped up properly. So I don’t buy the argument that it wasn’t his fault. Sure… a Charger stripped it away, but Charles could have done more to protect the ball.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
He has lost four fumbles
That is different than the number of times he has put the ball on the ground. He has fumbled more than four times, but most of them are recovered by a Chiefs player or rolled out of bounds. I’m not saying he is a terrible player, he’s probably the most exciting player we have (though he’s getting good competition from Chambers these days). But he does need to do a better job of protecting the football.
NFL.com
they list fumbles, and fumbles lost… the number is the same for charles. 4
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Thanks for the correction
It sure seems like he puts the ball on the ground a lot more than that.
No question about it. True fans cannot be unbiased about their own teams.
Reality is we are a God awful team. Very bad team. Make no mistakes about it. We are what our record says we are and what the stats say and what the commentators say etc. There’s no dodging the “horrible team” bullet. We are horrible. In every way other than special teams.
My single biggest concern is Cassel. It ALL starts and stops with your QB. Dynamic QB’s always keep their teams in the vie for the playoffs. They just do. Without Peyton, the Colts are not at all what they are now. Not even close. Cassel makes WAY too many errors. Bad ones. I get the whole he’s a good manager and doesn’t turn the ball over a lot crap, but he’s a mess.
It is absolutely his fault for hitting the defensive guys helmet. Something that happens to even the greatest QB’s from time to RARE time. Great QB’s don’t do something stupid and costly like that and then come back and lose the ball backwards to a defender. Cassel is like a newbie on Madden. He’s timid back there and unsure of himself. And it shows. I can’t keep defending the guy because he’s our QB. He needs a lot of work. He needs a QB coach. He needs a line so he can concentrate on those little things that make all the difference.
Our defense is awful. They have been all year. Even against Pittsburgh, they were just short of lousy and relied on big turnover plays to win. Something we can’t count on to happen ever. You have to be good enought to win without those breaks if your going to be a contender. Which we’re not.
All I can say is bring on 2010. Bring on the draft and FA. Let’s ee Pioli show his worth.
Like your thinking...
But, I do have to say that comparing Matt Cassel and Aaron Rodgers TDs probably has less to do with the QBs than it does the WRs. Yes, Green Bay’s OL is probably comparable to ours, but Rodgers WRs usually catch the ball when he gets it near them. Ours? Well, not so much…
Still, I’m not giving Cassel a pass for how he played yesterday. He needs to improve, as does the entire team, but I think some consistency will help…
"Every day is an evaluation and if you’re not out there how can we depend on you? If you’re out there and you don’t know what to do, how can we depend on you?" Accountability -- Haley-style...
And while I don’t wish to excuse Rudy Niswanger a pair of very bad snaps, Cassel is the guy that has to cover them.
You mean like being able to jump 18 feet in the air?
Please help send my girlfriend to Broadway! Visit http://magonbroadway.blogspot.com/
no like being the guy
that runs his ass off back to the ball and puts his body on hte ground in an attempt to cover it.
Give Todd Haley a full regular and off-season to build Bowe's Cassel, and we will all wreap the benefits...
actually, he did
the defender just beat him to it
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
i know that
im jus sayin he did make the attempt to try and cover it
Give Todd Haley a full regular and off-season to build Bowe's Cassel, and we will all wreap the benefits...
There was absolutely zero reason English beat Cassel to the ball
I was there watching and he pussyfooted back to retrieve it like he was pouting over Niswanger’s poor snap. Matt played like a girl yesterday, there was no other way I could describe it. Sorry Craig.
Welcome to Chiefs REBUILD - Version 2.0 /The Clark Hunt Edition
Chiefs will be lucky to go 4-12 in 2010
by KansasCityShuffle on Nov 30, 2009 1:39 PM CST up reply actions
Booo.
I would -1 that if I could. Criticize Cassel all you want for his actual play as a QB, but you can’t call the guy’s toughness and desire to compete into question. I’d like to see you get behind that OL once a week for 16 weeks. You’d either be dead or brain damaged by week 6 at the latest.
November 22nd 2009: Chiefs win in OT vs the Steelers 27-24. This could be the turning point for the Chiefs to get back to being respected.
by Red N Gold Beast on Nov 30, 2009 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
Doncha dare -1 me, boy!
I don’t think Cassel is a bad QB, I just think he’s developing Joey Harrington syndrome back there and it’s showing. Chiefer pointed out below that on the play before Niswanger tried his best impression of Gafford he tiptoed around rather than committing to the run and picking up the 1st. It was like watching a Madden glitch in first person. Then he got stripped easier than a girl scout. Wasn’t a solid performance by any means.
Welcome to Chiefs REBUILD - Version 2.0 /The Clark Hunt Edition
Chiefs will be lucky to go 4-12 in 2010
by KansasCityShuffle on Nov 30, 2009 2:19 PM CST up reply actions
lol
Fair enough. Just had to stick up for Matt back there. Think what you want, but calling him a “girl” isn’t cool. The guy’s shown that he’s pretty freakin’ tough given the circumstances. In spite of that I wouldn’t expect him to go charging out of the pocket though. His knee probably still isn’t quite right.
BTW, good stuff witht the “Gafford impression” and the “Madden glitch”. Funny shit.
November 22nd 2009: Chiefs win in OT vs the Steelers 27-24. This could be the turning point for the Chiefs to get back to being respected.
by Red N Gold Beast on Nov 30, 2009 2:59 PM CST up reply actions
i agree
he did pussyfoot back there. and then just got like hit out of the way so the other guy could get the ball. even on that run when the first down wasl ike 3 yards away he set himself up to get walloped (in which he did) – not the type iof matt cassel i saw in New England running the football or the one i expect to see here.
BUT, he did try to cover that fumble. but that stuff happens in the NFL, i know it gets emphasized because its our team, but still, shit happens man. its how you bounce back from losses like these that shows the real identity of your team. the fact we got killed by the chargers in arrowhead and then beat hte steelers a few weeks later is a very good sign. todd haley doesnt want yo-yo players but right now he has them, and a yo-yo team for that matter.
Give Todd Haley a full regular and off-season to build Bowe's Cassel, and we will all wreap the benefits...
Why are you apologizing to me?
Johnnie Morton: The Man. The Myth. The Legend.
by craig in calgary on Nov 30, 2009 1:46 PM CST up reply actions
You're the only girl here I know
Welcome to Chiefs REBUILD - Version 2.0 /The Clark Hunt Edition
Chiefs will be lucky to go 4-12 in 2010
by KansasCityShuffle on Nov 30, 2009 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
Not so sure Cassels pick was a fluke
How many times has he had passes batted down at the line? I don’t know an exact number but it seems to happen to him frequently. He’s lucky that more of them have not resulted in an interception. It tells me that there is something wrong with his vision of the field, or mechanics, or timing, when this keeps happening to him. I actually imagine that he probably leads the league in that statistic, if there is a stat for it.
Sackoff (McIntosh,Goff) like Brangelina.
or...
his OL is getting pushed back and not opening throwing lanes…
I am pretty sure he wouldn’t lead the league in that stat, either…. but I have no basis for that.
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Agreed.
It just seems like people aren’t giving the Chargers defense enough credit for their efforts. It’s true that Chiefs punched themselves in the face numerous times, but the Chargers were good enough to capitalize on those opportunities that were given to them.
RDOGuy
Another very well written post. I prefer your posts to a lot of the local columnists around here. Keep up the great work.
Rec’d
Feeling "The Love" and "Drinking the Kool AId"
+2
The fans did need this.
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Nov 30, 2009 7:03 PM CST up reply actions
I am really not too worried about Jamaal Charles at this
point. Has he had a couple of high profile fumbles this season? Yes, he has but he is a second year man out of Texas. This is basically the first time he is being asked to carry the load in terms of running the ball. He will improve. He knows he has had a couple of costly fumbles this season. Not only can he run the ball, he can catch it out of the backfield or even split to either side. Nuff said. Larry Johnson couldn’t catch cold. (or block) Did we execute yesterday? No, we sucked. Back to the drawing board for next week against the Donks. Geaux, Chiefs.
Charles case of the fumbles can be fixed.
I remember Okoye had a case of the fumbles and Marty made him carry the football around everywhere he went, even of the field. It can be fixed.
Sackoff (McIntosh,Goff) like Brangelina.
Wonder what tiki’s fumbles to carries % was. Wonder what his % was before he “fixed” it.
by motrepip on Nov 30, 2009 3:44 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, I remember Marty making
Okoye carry the ball around. Jamaal will get better. Marcus Allen was probably not as sure handed as a rookie or second year player as he was when he played for the Chiefs.
In fact, Allen had a lot of fumbles during his first two seasons
I went to look this up, and noticed for the first time that the stats for Allen at NFL.com do not include fumbles from early in his career; I just looked at the totals, and didn’t notice the “—” in many of the rows. So I apologize for the error. I should know better than to get stats from anywhere but pro-football-reference.com!
The reason I looked up Allen in the first place was that I didn’t remember seeing him make very many fumbles as a Chief. In fact, his percentage as a Chief is only a little less than Charles’ is now: 1.3%.
My point remains, though: Charles has fumbled more often than Johnson did, and more than twice as often as Holmes. While it is somewhat excusable for a young player, it still needs to be corrected. And yes… it can be.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
Thank God Charles ate a whole Turkey for Thanksgiving...
It looks like he needed the extra energy to run around like the way he did!
For the record though...so I don't get taken wrong..
I’m very proud of Charles and the advancements he has made thus far. He is our brightest offensive star IMO. He’s our anchor right now and THE bigggest difference maker. But he does have a tendency to fumble. He may only have 4 or 5 but lets get real. He hasn’t played much. If you up his attempts to match Chris Johnson or Adrian Peterson, he would be a fumbler from hell. Facts is fact peeps, he is a fumbler. He is doing a LOT better though.
Cassel is still a huge unknown. He hasn’t proven himself yet.
but can't the argument go the other way too?
he hasn’t “played enough” to be deemed a chronic fumbler or one that hasn’t fixed his fumbling problem?
He hasn’t played much. If you up his attempts to match Chris Johnson or Adrian Peterson, he would be a fumbler from hell.
This is absurd. For one thing, you’re assuming his fumble rate stays the exact same as he gains carries. I don’t think this will happen.
Secondly, his 4 (4!) fumbles have not occurred all while running from scrimmage. I think 2 of them have, correct? At any rate, AP’s stats are from scrimmage I’m sure, so not exactly comparable.
Charles will improve. (I hope). As I said somewhere above, I think we just have to wait for him to have a statistically relevant sample before we judge him. I know you’re not into patience before judgement but that’s the way it is in the real world.
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
just saying...Steven Jackson for example has 238 carries Jamaal has 78.
So you need to keep the ratio up. It’s be percentage based on the number of attempts to fumbles. Steven Jackson has 2 in 238 carries. Jamaal has 1 since becoming starter 2 weeks ago. And one on a kickoff return. So 2 combined.
Again, you don’t have to convince me. I’m drinking his kool-aid and smoking his Ganja…I love the guy. But I can’t blame someone else when he fumbles. That’s a solo thing. I’de blame someone else if I could. but there’s no one left. It’s on him. That’s one of those things you HAVE to be aware of. You can’t bury your head in the sand on it. It’s too crucial to the outcome of games and the morale along the way. So I think they’ll keep him improving. He’s doing better than preseason for sure. So good for him. I have faith in him. Just pointing out he has one flaw and every team knows it. When you have that flaw defenders are like Great white sharks around blood.
They will go for that ball every time now.
Good for you Kray and I completely agree.
I still think he is not a feature back, but is more than a 3rd down back.
but does that ratio include all offensive touches?
Thats 78 carries, but what about all the touches out of the backfield and his ko returns. You are counting the fumble on his ko return as a fumble so you therefore have to count all his touches. Receptions, returns, and carries. Is the percentage lower then? I don’t know just wondering. But it seems like with how much the guy touches the ball (probably half of all offensive plays) a fumble every 3 games or so will happen. Yes he has a problem, but I for one am not to worried about it. I think he’ll get it worked out.
Thats what Im sayin...
Seriously, can we really blame this game on Charles? Last time he fumbled, it was against the Giants? I mean Adrian seems to have fumblitis himself, but its not like he doesn’t play well.
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
by NJChieffan16 on Nov 30, 2009 2:50 PM CST up reply actions
Who is blaming the loss on Charles?
Not me. I only pointed out that Charles’ fumble contributed to the loss. There was plenty of blame to go around.
And so that there is no misunderstanding, the percentage I gave in the post did include rushing, receptions and returns. That’s why I referred to them as “touches”
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
yes your ratio has touches, i see that, was referring to krays ratio
I do say fumbles are a problem, because obviously they are, but I don’t think they will be a huge problem in the future. It hasn’t been that bad and I think he is taking care of the ball a lot better now than he did at the beginning of the year.
Kray, pick on Cassel. I was a huge fan, but the numbers do show he is definitely struggling. And the fumble he had was ridiculous and there were 20 ways he could have handled it in a manner where it wouldn’t have ended up in a defensive touchdown. And yes the bad snap wasn’t on him, but how does he not get to that ball? He is 5 feet closer than anyone else is and has an offensive line in between him and the Chargers.
I know you just go where the conversation takes you, but I would like to hear some Cassel talk from you this time. The Charles topic is pretty well hashed out. We all agree he has a problem to some degree, and he seems to be improving to some degree. How much he is improving is subject to opinion.
Expect inconsitency.
If there is anything us fans should expect, at this stage of the development of the team, is inconsistency. We will win some we shouldn’t and lose some we shouldn’t. This is still a young team, learning a new system, with a rookie head coach. Adrian Peterson fumbled twice yesterday, but you won’t likely even hear about it, because he makes up for his misques by being a consistently dominant running back. He also is on a team that is talented enough to overcome the mistakes. We certainly aren’t there yet. I still think Cassell has the drive, determination and work ethic to be our franchise QB. If you want bad, look at Brady Quinn, Jake Delohme, Derek Anderson, Sanchez, to name a few. Most of them also play on generally bad teams, but Delohme is a veteran, on a playoff team, who has been absolutely awful the past 2 seasons, and he has better support around him than Cassell. I think the foundation is there, with some talented young players, and Pioli and Haley will now have a full season of evaluation, and will get this team turned around, mainly during the offseason. I am not going to panic, unless I see the team not play hard for Haley, or throw in the towell.
+1 about Delhomme
That guy is destroying the season for the Panthers. I fully expect the Panthers to try and trade back into the first round and get a QB…………hmmmmmm
by Hail2DaChiefs on Nov 30, 2009 3:38 PM CST up reply actions
Could of, should of, would of.
The reality is what’s happening right now.
The only thing we can say for sure is that this team is setting its baseline. It will be against that baseline that next year will be measured. Right now that baseline is low.
by BCRavenJHawkfan on Nov 30, 2009 8:26 PM CST reply actions
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