What the Chiefs Could Be Getting With Charlie Weis at Offensive Coordinator
by Matt Conner on Nov 30, 2009 10:24 AM CST
in 2009 Campaign
57 comments
The rumor mill churns. The buzz only grows. And any and all news regarding the future of the Chiefs (and other losing clubs) is grabbed at with religious fervor simply because it's the most exciting thing to focus upon. The latest: the possible relocation of Charlie Weis from his head coaching position at Notre Dame to Kansas City as the Chiefs' new offensive coordinator.
Much has been made over our lack of an official coordinator at the position, the ability (or inability) of Todd Haley to handle both the head coaching and coordinator position and other possible landing spots for Weis. But for our purposes, the question needs to be asked (and answered): what exactly would the Chiefs gain with Weis at the OC spot?
For the uninitiated, Weis served as offensive coordinator for eight NFL seasons with the New York Jets and New England Patriots from 1997 through 2004. He finally left for the head coaching gig at Notre Dame the last four years and now seems a sure bet to be cut, leaving some intriguing teams to barter for his services. Even though it's been a few years, how has Weis proved himself at the NFL level to organize an offense?
Note that absolutely nobody realized what Tom Brady was capable of when the Pats drafted him with the best sixth round choice in NFL Draft history. It was Weis who oversaw the offensive transition from Drew Bledsoe to Brady. It was also a Weis-directed offense that made a 1,100+ yard rusher out of Antowain Smith at age 29, squeezed max value from guys like Kevin Faulk and Troy Brown and revitalized the career of Corey Dillon. And let's not forget how patchwork receivers like David Givens and David Patten received high-dollar free agent dollars after leaving New England.
The beautiful thing is that Weis only carried over to New England what he was already doing in New York with the Jets. In 1997, his first year running an offense, the Jets finished 12th in overall scoring with a QB/RB combo of Neil O'Donnell and Adrian Murrell. The next year, a revitalized Vinny Testaverde (age 35) took the team to a 12-4 record and a top five finish in total offense. In his final season in NY, the team trailed off due to injuries at the QB position, but still managed to finish 19th in total offense even with QBs Rick Mirer and Ray Lucas splitting the season.
Most of the high profile draft picks in those years, especially for New England, were spent on defensive backs and linemen on both sides of the ball - guys like Richard Seymour, Matt Light, Ty Warren, Eugene Wilson, Adrian Klemm and Vince Wilfork. Of course, there were the high picks of TEs like Daniel Graham and Ben Watson, but for the most part, Weis had to fend for himself. The same can be said of the Jets, who never gave Weis a single player drafted in the first or second round at the WR, QB or RB position. In fact, Dedric Ward, the Jets third rounder in 1997, was the only skill position first-day draft pick in Weis' tenure.
The point? Weis made due largely with overlooked free agents, veterans on the downside of their career or promising youngsters who needed developing. Weis wasn't a miracle worker and couldn't do anything with speedsters like Bethel Johnson, but by and large, Weis track record is quite impressive. For a team like the Chiefs, Weis would be a wonderful fit both for the promising youngsters already here and those still to come with Scott Pioli's draft picks.
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I was kind of on the fence about this
But now I am very much for it. How awesome would it be to land both Crennel and Weis during the offseason? I think it would also really help Haley as he can focus on just being a head coach.
I think we will make a lot of upgrades at the coaching positions during the offseason and that might make the biggest difference of all next year.
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by Scaryclouds on Nov 30, 2009 10:33 AM CST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
All I know is
if we hire both Romeo and Weiss those two are going to need their own plane to get to games!
That or we could put them in as Offensive Lineman
Please help send my girlfriend to Broadway! Visit http://magonbroadway.blogspot.com/
by Patrick Allen on Nov 30, 2009 10:34 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
They make me want to cuddle
Welcome to Chiefs REBUILD - Version 2.0 /The Clark Hunt Edition
Chiefs will be lucky to go 4-12 in 2010
by KansasCityShuffle on Nov 30, 2009 10:35 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
If you laid their belts out end to end
they would go around the world.
Please help send my girlfriend to Broadway! Visit http://magonbroadway.blogspot.com/
by Patrick Allen on Nov 30, 2009 10:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Get them both and we could be in real trouble, actually.
I mean, chances are they’d both take diuretics to make weight at training camp and get suspended from coaching for four games leaving Haley calling all of the plays on both sides of the ball.
by JacinB on Nov 30, 2009 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Weis is saying...
DOUGHNUTS!!! Not Bagels… DOUGHNUTS!!! WITH SPRINKLES NOW!!!
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Nov 30, 2009 11:04 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
rec'd
I was thinking they can have one more for the road
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Nov 30, 2009 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Did these guys ever have odd jobs when they were trying to make it? I thought I saw..
Weiss
Romeo
Bewsaf
by Bewsaf on Nov 30, 2009 10:45 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Marshallow Man was always my fave
+1
Welcome to Chiefs REBUILD - Version 2.0 /The Clark Hunt Edition
Chiefs will be lucky to go 4-12 in 2010
by KansasCityShuffle on Nov 30, 2009 10:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see really how anyone can be against Weis
if not voting for him for all else an offensive coordinator. Let’s help Todd be Todd and take a little off his plate allowing somebody more experienced to make the play calls. I really don’t know how he would fit into the picture or the coaching “structure”, but I assume Weis was in NY when Haley was? I think we actually have a very good receiving core that with the right mind should be able to exploit the abilities of our talent (Bowe, Chambers, Bradley, Wade, Long). We’re just a little too conversative at the beginning of games and have to play from behind in order to get aggressive. We should be the one’s striking first. Not the annoying ass Chargers and they’re epic doucher fans. Grumbles.
Welcome to Chiefs REBUILD - Version 2.0 /The Clark Hunt Edition
Chiefs will be lucky to go 4-12 in 2010
by KansasCityShuffle on Nov 30, 2009 10:45 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
"LT! LT! LT!"
LT fumbles on the one***
lulz
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by Scaryclouds on Nov 30, 2009 10:51 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yeah
Weis was the Wr coach right before Haley….Haley learned a lot from Weis. I would think they are still close. Both having not played in college and both offensive minds. Weis could end his career with the Chiefs. Don’t forget that Weis and Pioli are also close.
I think we should also bring in Groh to help with the 34. H
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Nov 30, 2009 10:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
First time I have Seen Al Groh floated as a candidate on this site
He would be a fantastic fit.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Nov 30, 2009 11:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What's in a name?
I think that many of us like Weis simply because we’ve heard of him. An article posted on Page 2 of ESPN earlier this morning. Here’s a quote:
There isn’t much evidence that Weis is necessarily any better at calling plays than he was coaching Notre Dame. In his five years as OC for the Patriots, the team ranked 22nd, 19th, 21st, 17th and seventh in the NFL in total yards. In the five years since his departure (including 2009), the Patriots have ranked seventh, 11th, first, fifth and second in total offensive yards.
Just an FYI.
by Ozarks on Nov 30, 2009 11:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You win games with points not yards
His teams always score. Not to mention that he had the young Tom Brady with mediocre receivers. Not the mature Tom Brady with Moss and Welker.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Nov 30, 2009 11:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
also, Haley needs a good match at OC
and he probably needs more of an assistant who will do what he tells him to, not someone who is as independent as Weis. DC, different story, but with Haley’s tight grip on offensive responsibilities, the new OC needs to be a specific type, not just “insert big name OC”.
Blank
by benfunke on Nov 30, 2009 12:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Like I've been saying...
Maurice Carthon.
November 22nd 2009: Chiefs win in OT vs the Steelers 27-24. This could be the turning point for the Chiefs to get back to being respected.
by Red N Gold Beast on Nov 30, 2009 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But what Weis did do
was know how to get down the field and score when it counted. Especially if you put Crennel as DC, you would have a well-proven tandem.
by old_school on Nov 30, 2009 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If we were to bring in Weiss and Crennel the Chiefs would instantly have the best tandem of coordinators in the NFL.
by saskwatch on Nov 30, 2009 10:53 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I like the idea of bringing Weis in - but
I still don’t buy into the whole Crennel love. Based on Hoodie’s involvement, I question whether Crennel was truly a DC. He certainly didn’t show any signs of building a great D at Cleveland. I like Weis for the same reason. I suspect he truly ran the show on the offensive side of the ball. If he and Haley can work together, I’m for bringing him in.
"Bigamy is having one wife too many. Monogamy is the same." ~Oscar Wilde
by Big Chief on Nov 30, 2009 11:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And Weis's offense hasn't been a problem at ND.
He’s lost a shit-ton of close games.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
by Rev. Slappy on Nov 30, 2009 11:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Offense definitely wasn't ND's problem.
They moved the ball well, it’s just that their defense allowed the opponent to do the same.
by old_school on Nov 30, 2009 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
cleavand has always been a mess...
it was before crennel got there and is even more after crennel left now that mangini is there. im not sure why people keep harping on clevelands d when crennel was there. did he call the plays when he was there? did he hire his dc or did management? was he in charge of personel? nobody does good in cleveland. tell me, what is the constant variable there?
by MountainManMike on Dec 1, 2009 11:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
On the surface it seems a fit
IF Haley and Weiss can work together, I can’t see any reason not to go for it. We need an OC and Haley has come out to say he wants an OC, and right now I don’t see any better available. If we can get a good DC to go along with them both we will see the team getting to the place we all want it to be.
is it me? or isn't about time the Lamar Hunt trophy belonged to His team?
This Chiefs team is closer to a new expansion team than it is a playoff contender, your expectations should match that.
by KC Fanatic on Nov 30, 2009 11:05 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I heard
That Weis actually ate the dead rat that was in Haleys salad shaker….
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Nov 30, 2009 11:07 AM CST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
On The Poll
I think there should be an “indifferent” option. I’m indifferent.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
by UCrawford on Nov 30, 2009 11:15 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Or at least "other".
I’m still sticking to my prediction that Haley is going to promote Mo Carthon to OC at the end of this year. Just a hunch.
November 22nd 2009: Chiefs win in OT vs the Steelers 27-24. This could be the turning point for the Chiefs to get back to being respected.
by Red N Gold Beast on Nov 30, 2009 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And I Will Hate That Decision
No Mo.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
by UCrawford on Nov 30, 2009 2:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Big surprise there.
;-)
November 22nd 2009: Chiefs win in OT vs the Steelers 27-24. This could be the turning point for the Chiefs to get back to being respected.
by Red N Gold Beast on Nov 30, 2009 2:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If The Chiefs Are Going To Go Retread
I’ll take an OC with a track record like Weis’ over one with a track record like Carthon’s. Carthon’s been a coach for 15 years and he’s been terrible a lot.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
by UCrawford on Nov 30, 2009 3:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I voted no, but more because I don't think it will happen then not wanting it to.
To go from OC of a 3 time Super Bowl winner in NE to head coach of ND where all your games are nationally televised to OC of the KC Chiefs under a young and unproven head coach just sounds like a reach to me. I’m sure Weiss is a bigger name nationally then Haley. I just think it would take a huge amount of humility to come to a smaller market team and work under a young and “in your face” coach like Haley. It might even be different if Haley was a defensive guy and the offense would be all Weiss, but with Haley being an offensive guy himself you know he’s going to want to have his say in what and how things are done. I know they worked together before, and I’d be happy to be proved wrong, but I just don’t see this working out. I’m of the camp that thinks the new OC proably needs to be a Haley “underling” who is groomed in his system and works under Haley.
Feeling "The Love" and "Drinking the Kool AId"
by KCporkchop on Nov 30, 2009 11:22 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I look at it differently.
He could go back into a comfortable situation in New England. But if I were in his position, I would be looking to prove that I don’t need “the Genius” to hold my hand to be successfull in the NFL. I think he would have to swallow a lot more pride to go crawling back to the Patriots.
by dakotadave on Nov 30, 2009 12:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Patriots = job security
Chiefs = chance to get canned before season starts if Haley doesn’t like you.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Nov 30, 2009 12:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Weis and Gailey are two different stories
I don’t believe Gailey was in the long term plans of the Parcells tree in the first place. I’m surprised they didn’t get rid of him sooner.
by old_school on Nov 30, 2009 1:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not like that
Haley would be reaching out to Weis for help. It wouldn’t be a “my way or the highway” approach with a guy like Weiss. They go way back. Weis taught Haley everything he knows. Haley trust Weis. They are partners…I could even see Haley making him ast head coach.
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Nov 30, 2009 1:11 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Yah I'm indifferent to a degree too.
Not 100% sold either way on Weis. He sounds promising but I really don’t know much about him other than this article. I would think that after being a HC in ND, regardless of how he did, it would only serve to improve his coaching skills overall, which is good.
Cornell, I don’t know about at all. He hasn’t proven anything since leaving Hoodie.
by krayfish on Nov 30, 2009 11:23 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I guess the verdict on weis is supposed to be delivered today
If he is fired, I think the chiefs should certainly pursue him.
I would want him to come on this season as an offensive assistant with the promise of the OC position next.
He could start slowly rolling his plays into the gameplan and hit full speed in the offseason.
I've been rapping for about seveteen years okay? I don't write my stuff anymore I just kick it from my head you know what I'm sayin? I can do that. No disrespect but that's how I am.
by soybon on Nov 30, 2009 11:30 AM CST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
It'd be interesting with KC not having an OC
He could be on staff for the final quarter of the season, if he chose so. Probably not as the OC immediately, but he could be in house setting up the transition for next season. I imagine he wants some time off, so it probably won’t happen, but it’s a thought.
I’m pretty much indifferent too…but when the team is 3-8 ANY change seems exciting and beneficial.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
by jmcgoblue on Nov 30, 2009 11:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Against it
Are you kidding me? I just don’t buy that he would help the team. I don’t care what he did 10 years ago at New England. He consistently struck out at ND while competing with all of the advantages you can have in college football: good recruiting classes, national exposure, and lots of money. I just don’t see any of the ‘genius’ attributes in this guy or his coaching ability.
by jboot1 on Nov 30, 2009 12:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Notre Dame was good offensively,
but the defense was neglected. Plus, Notre Dame is at a huge recruiting disadvantage in terms of academic eligibility, so it’s sort of a myth to say that Notre Dame can get the best of everything.
by old_school on Nov 30, 2009 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But you would think they could beat the service acadamies and UConn
USC and Fla and such the academic bar is lower. But I would still like if Haley and Weis can find a solid plan together to move the Chiefs forward. Carthon can continue to be the Wall that Haley sounds off too :)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Nov 30, 2009 4:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Weis would be a good choice
…Crennel would be a good DC and I would see them them bringing in Wade Wilson as QB/OC and Wade Phillips after the Dallas purge making way for Shanny.
by FrankPitts on Nov 30, 2009 12:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Didn't vote.
Nothing against Weis. I wouldn’t mind seeing him be the OC next year, but I don’t think that’s the road HAley is going to take.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Haley’s current assistant, Mo Carthon is promoted to OC. Haley’s had Carthon shadow him since the start, and might be grooming the guy. In a wayy I like that more than bringing in someone else. Let’s not try to be like everyone else. Let’s build our team from the ground up…. that includes coaches as well as players.
November 22nd 2009: Chiefs win in OT vs the Steelers 27-24. This could be the turning point for the Chiefs to get back to being respected.
by Red N Gold Beast on Nov 30, 2009 2:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Carthon Is Also A Retread
He’s been an OC twice before…in Detroit and Cleveland. And he was horrible in both places (Cleveland’s offense improved after he got canned mid-season 2006). So promoting him to OC is not building anything from the ground up…it’s giving a proven failure another job.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
by UCrawford on Nov 30, 2009 3:06 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Correction
Carthon’s a three-time OC. He was also OC for two years in Dallas in ’03 and ’04. His offenses were bottom 10 in points allowed and 15th and 14th in yardage over that time. That represents the high point of his four and a half years as an OC…and he followed that up by running the worst offense in the NFL in his next job.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
by UCrawford on Nov 30, 2009 3:13 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
yeah, this is not the man i want running our O.
he seems to know how to stop offenses though…our next DC maybe? hmm…where is that sarcasm button?
by MountainManMike on Dec 1, 2009 11:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmmm
So if everybody in the Chiefs organization is to be held to the same standards, and the players are told that they have to drop weight and condition their bodies……….will there be a double standard when it comes to the coaches if Weis and Crennell are hired?
by Mike Bro on Nov 30, 2009 3:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
not if they put them on the treadmill
haley makes them run a lap if the play they call doesn’t work
Blank
by benfunke on Nov 30, 2009 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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