Expect Weis to Chiefs Rumors to Continue to Surface
As the rumors began to rise to a steam that Charlie Weis is out as the Notre Dame head coach, expect the rumors to rise in regards to his connections with the Kansas City Chiefs.
Adam Schefter of ESPN reports, "[Weis] has begun telling people that he's heard from NFL teams. There have been NFL teams that have reached out to Charlie Weis and contacted him."
Are the Chiefs one of them? I claim no inside information but on the surface it seems to make sense especially when you consider Todd Haley thinks he is to caught up in things like the offensive play selection instead of overall game management.
Translation: He wants an offensive coordinator next season.
During the broadcast of the Chiefs and Raiders game two weeks ago, CBS announcers Gus Johnson and Steve Tasker said that they had met with Haley the day prior for a production meeting. Tasker then said of Haley's position as the playcaller, "It's something he wishes he wouldn't have to do and probably won't next year as this team develops around him."
I'd say that's a pretty clear indication that Haley intends to hire an offensive coordinator.
Now that there are rumors of Weis being shuffled out of South Bend, expect many folks to be talking about Kansas City as a landing spot.
We'll keep our ears open but as of now there has been no indication from anyone involved with the organization, on or off the record, that the Chiefs are interested Weis. That could change once Weis is given his walking papers.
Update; As pointed out by Mike Florio of PFT, the Chiefs are definitely on the early list of candidates to land Weis.
"The most obvious candidates are the Chiefs and the Patriots. Browns coach Eric Mangini might also be interested in hiring Weis to run the Cleveland offense, in the hopes of getting the most out of former Weis pupil Brady Quinn and, more importantly, securing for Mangini another year at the helm of the hapless Browns."
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Haley needs to lighten his load
and I think Weis found out the hard way he’s not cut out for head coaching. People keep making the Browns connection but really the manangement is not in place and why would you take a job knowing your work place is in flux? There’s no GM and no guaranteee Mangini will return next year. Pioli is here for the long haul and I think we can provide a better contract, job security, and overall better work environment than Cleveland along with the guarantee he won’t contract staph.
Who knows. With Joshy boy gone to Denver maybe Billy boy welcomes him back with open arms to NE
Welcome to Chiefs REBUILD - Version 2.0 /The Clark Hunt Edition
Chiefs will be lucky to go 4-12 in 2010
by KansasCityShuffle on Nov 29, 2009 9:58 AM CST reply actions
Agreed
I think Mangini’s definitely gone after this year…the Browns have been horrible in all facets of the game and Mangini’s decisions in the QB derby there have been questionable at best. And with Mangini leaves the “Patriots connection”. Weis is most definitely gone at Notre Dame after dropping his last game to Stanford, but whether he comes to the Chiefs or not I don’t know. I’m pretty lukewarm on it considering the rankings of the offenses he put out at New England that DJ pointed out earlier.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
DJ threw out yardage totals
In scoring his NE teams were
2000 – 25th
2001 – 6th
2002 – 10th
2003 – 12th
I’m lukewarm on him as well, but his numbers certainly look better in the category that matters.
DJ also tried to discredit Romeo Crennel by citing middle of the road yardage rankings during his 4 years in NE. Here’s how Romo’s team fared in scoring D.
2001 – 6th
2002 – 17th
2003 – 1st
2004 – 2nd
And, oh yeah, they won 3 Super Bowls on teh strength of hid Ds.
Yardage numbers are very often skewed by game situations and should not be used as a judge of a coordinators success. Weis’ teams were often ahead and would run the ball late in the game, lowering yardage totals. Crennels Ds over a similar period gave up extra yards as teams desperately passed late in games to catch up.
The bottom line is that Weis built an O that was top 3rd of teh league for a 3 year period. Crennel built a D that among the very best.
Both good coordinators that could help us.
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by KCSatchmo on Nov 29, 2009 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
I still maintain that it is Belichicks D' and not Crennel's.
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by averagegatsby on Nov 29, 2009 10:55 AM CST up reply actions
Lol
Football is the ultimate team sport. I don’t know where this notion of “The Hoddie” being a one man army came from, but it’s just getting way out of control. It takes a lot of people to many a frnachise successful.
And even if it is true that Billy B is this uber-genius, then why doesn’t the arguement extend to his ability to pick good coaches? HE’s a genius at everything except figuring out who to be his OC/DC? Maybe he should just fire everyone and run teh whole show himself.
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by KCSatchmo on Nov 29, 2009 11:00 AM CST up reply actions
That doesn't refute what I said...
Belichick has a defensive background that he learned under Parcells. What the Patriots do defensively is a product of Belichicks background, now the Offense was Weis, modified by McDaniels.
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by averagegatsby on Nov 29, 2009 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
Who cares and who knows
which guy drew up the plays. My bet is that both created some and they brought most of it in from what Parcells invented as DC in NY. The point is that Romeo was in charge of the D that was one of the very best in the league. He coahced it…called the plays…you know…was the DC.
My point is that The Hoddie is the only one who ever gets the credit. That’s just perception. The reality is that they all deserve credit.
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by KCSatchmo on Nov 29, 2009 11:08 AM CST up reply actions
Then why did Clevelands defense not improve?
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by averagegatsby on Nov 29, 2009 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
Cleveland D
2004 15th (year before Crennel)
2005 16th
2006 27th
2007 30th
2008 26th
If Crennel is such a great Defensive mind, why did his teams suck so bad defensively, some of those years they were worse than the Chiefs D’s had been.
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by averagegatsby on Nov 29, 2009 11:14 AM CST up reply actions
Statistics are like bikinis
what they reveal is enticing, but what they conceal is vital.
For justice we must go to Don Pioli
Got to have players. A coach alone will not make the difference.
by vincent2668 on Nov 29, 2009 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
I disagree.
At the NFL level everyone has talent, if Crennel was so great he should have been able to adapt. Im not saying he should have had a top 10 defense, but nearly every year they got worse, the only year they didn’t get worse, was the year they couldn’t get much worse.
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by averagegatsby on Nov 29, 2009 11:19 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed About Crennel
We keep hearing his name trotted out as a guy who’ll be a great hire to replace Pendergast (who I agree needs to go) but honestly I don’t see any reason to want him here. His defenses showed no improvement over his tenure there and he came in as a defensive-minded coach (who was given ample time and support to turn that franchise around).
I’d rather go with someone younger, frankly…a guy out of the college or pro ranks who hasn’t held a DC position before, rather than a retread.
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Marvin Lewis was labeled one of the best DCs when he left Baltimore
He never created great defenses as a HC at Cinn. I don’t think that means he is not a great DC. Just because a OC or DC is given a HC position, doesn’t mean that the side of the ball they specialized on prior will be improved with them as a head coach.
by vincent2668 on Nov 29, 2009 11:31 AM CST up reply actions
Valid Point
But after watching “Hard Knocks” I don’t think you can really say that he got much of the support he wanted, considering Mike Brown’s tightfisted ways with personnel. You’re talking about a owner/GM who told the coaching staff to convert a DE to TE because he didn’t want to pay the league minimum for a waiver-wire scrub TE. I think the problems with the Bengals have been all about Mike Brown.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Have you seen the Cincy defense this year?
2005 28th
2006 30th
2007 27th
2008 12th
2009 8th
Excellent point you make there.
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by averagegatsby on Nov 29, 2009 11:37 AM CST up reply actions
It Was A Good Point For The First Three Years
The defense was pretty wretched. But last year’s team was all about issues with the offense because of Palmer’s injury. The defense was pretty solid.
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Meh...
They weren’t good when he got there, then got worse then improved. Crennel started with a decent defense and they got worse
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by averagegatsby on Nov 29, 2009 11:41 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, But
When you see a four year stretch of defenses that go 28, 30, 27 and 12 it’s pretty easy and reasonable to dismiss the 12 as a fluke until this season. There’s not really any difference between the other three numbers.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Just think that when you are talking about teams like Clev and Cinn
You have alot bigger issues then who is the HC, OC, or DC. Front offices for both of those teams is terrible. Without talent around a coach, improvement is never going to happen. Many of these great OC’s get put in HC jobs where the problem isn’t the coaching at all, its the front office. But, it is easy for us to point to the coach and say boy, he must suck. Belichek was labeled a failure as a coach in Clev. Then put him in NE with players around him and he is now labeled one of the best HCs int he league.
by vincent2668 on Nov 29, 2009 11:48 AM CST up reply actions
Cincinnati had a nice run though
Yeah Cleveland is a trainwreck, but they showed zero improvement. My main argument about Crennel isn’t that he had a bad defense, but that they didn’t show any improvement, but actually regressed nearly every year.
Now if Crennel’s defense would have been like 28th 26th 28th 25th then at least they didn’t get worse and infact improved a little, but that is not the case they got much worse while under his watch.
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by averagegatsby on Nov 29, 2009 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
Maybe Romeo is terrible at evaluating talent
but given good talent he is a great coach. I dont think you can evaluate a guys as a OC or DC based on his success or failure during time as a HC.
by vincent2668 on Nov 29, 2009 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
it has nothing to do with talent
because they got worse, they didn’t stay the same, they got worse, so he was unable to adapt
I dont get whey Crennel is the defacto premier defensive mind available, when his defenses were good not great in NE (and they were probably as much because of Belichick than Crennel). The guy hos shown nothing at the professional level that he is in fact a good coordinator. Why not take a promising defensive coach and promote him to coordinator. Every great Coordinator had to get their first shot.
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by averagegatsby on Nov 29, 2009 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
Yup
I think the largest part of the attraction to Crennel is simply that he’s a name people recognize. After all, it’s not like most of us could name the top defensive quality assistants in the NFL or even most of the top position coaches.
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I would look in NO
those guys are doing well despite injury after injury.
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by averagegatsby on Nov 29, 2009 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
Biggest Addition They Made
Was bringing in Gregg Williams to run the defense. He’s been good pretty much everywhere he’s gone.
Oh, and getting rid of Gary Gibbs was also key. He was a horrible DC. Wonder where he is now? :)
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Keep an eye on Clancy...
This defense is starting to “Get It”…whether he changed his scheme or the players are just now picking it up, they are showing improvement. Last yr with the Cards, the defense all the sudden started gettin after it down the stretch and looked like a completely different unit. That is until the last 2:40 of the SB. But, we are blitzing more, getting more pressure, and creating turnovers every week…I dont like Clancy much either guys, but he has another 6 games to make an impression,
He also isn't working with much
A pass rush can make a defensive coordinator look like a genius. Free’s you up to do so much more.
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by averagegatsby on Nov 29, 2009 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
Exactly..
a NT will do wonders for us I think. Also Dansby is going to be a FA, who knows his scheme already…I say Clancy has a decent chance of being retained for next yr
I hope he doesn't, but its possible.
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by averagegatsby on Nov 29, 2009 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
lol...
im right there with ya! I just really think this team needs some consistancy with the coaching and the schemes. Changing coordinators means a new learning curve and this team has had too much of that the last5 yrs….
I think its overrated, these guys are professionals...
What else do they have to do. More than likely if they brought in another guy it would be a 3-4 guy too. I doubt the learning curve would be that bad.
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by averagegatsby on Nov 29, 2009 12:07 PM CST up reply actions
I disagree.
I watched Gunther have top defenses in KC when he had talent on the field. His second time back, (with no talent) he couldn’t produce a good defense or even create much improvement.
by vincent2668 on Nov 29, 2009 11:27 AM CST up reply actions
IMO
Gunther was a guy that the game just passed up. When new offenses were developed, he could not compensate for them. Gun was good in his day and I loved his fire, but he just didnt adapt to todays NFL.
This proves my earlier point...
Perhaps those Defenses were more Schottenheimer than Gunther.
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by averagegatsby on Nov 29, 2009 11:37 AM CST up reply actions
I'd Agree With That
Gunther had great defenses when he worked with Marty but none when he didn’t. And frankly, I suspect that this was probably realized by most of the league as evidenced by the fact that nobody but the Titans was jumping to hire him as a DC after he left Kansas City…and the Titans only wanted him as a LB coach.
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Never said he was a good HC
or that the HC should get all the credit/blame for the performance of an individual unit. That’s your arguement…not mine.
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by KCSatchmo on Nov 29, 2009 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
But if he was a good defensive mind...
then his D’s should at least improved, not gotten worse.
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by averagegatsby on Nov 29, 2009 11:39 AM CST up reply actions
Got To Hand It To Gatsby
There was zero reason for anyone to think that Crennel was doing much right in Cleveland, defensively or otherwise.
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Whats this world coming to when you are agreeing with me.
I dont think I like this new world where Up is Down, next thing you know Jamarcus will be completing 65% of his passes.
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by averagegatsby on Nov 29, 2009 11:46 AM CST up reply actions
Not In This Life
I think the best he can hope for is “2011 Carphone Warehouse Salesman Of The Year”. :)
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
lmfao
Did you really just try to pull Crennel in Cleveland?
I wonder if it had anything to do with the fact that Cleveland SUCKS..and has SUCKED for as long as I can remember. Theres no talent in Cleveland, let alone on D.
Also, wasnt Crennel the Head Coach in Cleveland?
I think Cleveland suffers from a whole host of different issues
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-Confucius, in contrary to Glenn Dorsey lining up in the 2-tech
by ArrowSpread on Nov 29, 2009 12:53 PM CST up reply actions
Just like it was Belichick making player moves and not Pioli, right?
by vincent2668 on Nov 29, 2009 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
My point is...people said the same thing about Parcells and Walsh for years.
But now look how many great coaches and personel people have come out of those trees.
by vincent2668 on Nov 29, 2009 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
Belichick had a hand in it yes.
But if Pioli was just a title holder, he wouldn’t have been earning front office awards.
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by averagegatsby on Nov 29, 2009 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
It wasn't a reply to you.
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by averagegatsby on Nov 29, 2009 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
I was being sarcastic about saying it is all Belichick
To the point that when any coach or personel come out of the organization, people are quick to give all the credit to Belichick and none to the coaches around him.
by vincent2668 on Nov 29, 2009 11:25 AM CST up reply actions
Im not giving all the credit to Belichick
but he was a defensive coordinator under Parcells, its stands to reason that he has had more to do with the success of the Patriots defense than he has had for their offense.
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by averagegatsby on Nov 29, 2009 11:26 AM CST up reply actions
Quinn is there.
I think Weis would like to coach him again.
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by averagegatsby on Nov 29, 2009 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
I would be completely happy with Weis as our OC
It would free up Haley to be more of a manager and I think almost everyone agrees that Weis is a good playcaller.
Especially when he knows the opposing team's defense.
Weis hasn’t proved he can be anything in the NFL without cheating.
by AlanSimpson on Nov 29, 2009 10:23 AM CST up reply actions
i smashed the guy at first ...but after further review.
I am optimistic about him as a coordinator. I think we should hire a few college coaches to come in, especially from winning programs. Think about it, they know college players and their talent levels….it could mean some good picks in the upcoming drafts. They dont need scouts, they already know who the studs and duds are…
Except in college you win with talent...
in the NFL everyone has talent so you win by schemes.
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by averagegatsby on Nov 29, 2009 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
did everyone see babb's article on team chemistry?
jamaal charles has some great quoites in there…things you wished we got when we drafted LJ…
Good stuff
thanks and thanks
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by KCSatchmo on Nov 29, 2009 10:31 AM CST up reply actions
Just remember..
Weis has been away from the NFL for over six yrs, he has been through the ringer as well. Im not so sure its a good idea.Not many of Belichecks diciples have done very well after leaving the pats…Mangini,Crennel, Weis….you could say that Daniels is doing the best, but then again.
Yes, they haven't done well when leaving to be a head coach
But I think a coordinator’s job is different. You’re not all caught up in all the HC stuff.
by Joel Thorman on Nov 29, 2009 10:24 AM CST up reply actions
I understand that...
But from what I have seen, when the Pats have someone leave they just plug a new NO NAME guy in and they dont seem to miss a beat. In fact, after Daniels left last yr who did they bring in?..Anybody know the new OC in NE? I dont….I think a lot of it is just Belichecks system.
They promote position coaches
Who do you think those noname guys learned from?
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by KCSatchmo on Nov 29, 2009 10:32 AM CST up reply actions
That's what good organizations are able to do.
With players or coaches really. Take a look at Pittsburgh, Cowher leaves, they win a Superbowl within a couple of years with Tomlin. Once you have a system in place and people who know it, people can just step into their roles.
Yes....
But its not working when someone takes that to another team…youre making my point for me. These guys built their name by running someone elses system. They go somewhere else and fall on their face.
Weis really created NE's offensive system though
McDaniels learned from him and whoever their new OC is learned from McDaniels.
Not to mention...
if we bring in a new OC from somewhere else…Haley is going to want to run Haleys system,Haleys plays, Haleys way.
You may be right
I’m not even saying that we should bring in Weiss. (Although I do think we should go for Romeo) But, the trend around here hs been to try and discount their accomplishments in NE which is jst silly. They were very good at those jobs and past suiccess is the best indicator of future success.
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by KCSatchmo on Nov 29, 2009 10:41 AM CST up reply actions
Im not trying to discount anything...
Im just looking at the production these guys had AFTER leaving the Pats organization…I know head coach is a whole different beast than being an OC, but many of these guys had multiple yrs to develop teams and none of them have succeeded. I guess the biggest point im trying to make is that Belicheck is just THAT good. In fact you can even point to Pioli leaving and the fact that the Pats are still right in the mix and a lot of peoples favorites to win the SB this yr, as an indicator. Pioli leaves,Daniels leaves, and they just keep moving on.
well in all fairness...
It takes more than a year for the wheels to come off. A lot of the scouting done for the Pats was done under Pioli’s eye. And the offense is still McDaniels offense, notice how its not quite as good as it was.
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by averagegatsby on Nov 29, 2009 11:01 AM CST up reply actions
True
That probably means there will be growing pains if Weis or any other outside coach is brought in. But there is really no one we can promote to OC that is on the staff right now, except Carthon maybe. Maybe that is what Haley is planning on doing for next year, but if they bring someone in now, I’d choose Weis over just about anyone else.
Except...
Haley runs a very similar offensive system, changes wouldn’t that drastic.
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by averagegatsby on Nov 29, 2009 10:59 AM CST up reply actions
Haley isn't even running the same O he ran in AZ
What our O will become is a very fluid situation.
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by KCSatchmo on Nov 29, 2009 11:03 AM CST up reply actions
Its a similar offense...
Wide receiver focused, 3 receiver sets, less focus on the running game. Of course you have to modify the offense to the personnel. But dont think for a second that if Cassel gets better protection that Haley wont start airing it out more.
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by averagegatsby on Nov 29, 2009 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
I'm talking blocking schemes and terminology mostly
We put zone blocking (AZ uses E-P) and the terminology is apparently a combination of E-P and the Coryell-Zampese. AZ is a straight E-P team.
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by KCSatchmo on Nov 29, 2009 11:10 AM CST up reply actions
The terminology is different
because Wisenhunt was a coordinator too. Probably the same termonolgy that he used in Pittsburgh. This makes sense since the Patriots use a Coryell style offense and Wisenhunt uses the other so it makes sense that Haley runs a hybrid, Weis’s system is a Coryell type offense, so it would be similar… Like I said.
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by averagegatsby on Nov 29, 2009 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
The Patriots use E-P
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by KCSatchmo on Nov 29, 2009 11:41 AM CST up reply actions
That effects play calling
Scheme is a byproduct what Haley is comfortable with and what Gailey already had in place.
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by KCSatchmo on Nov 29, 2009 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
OK...
im getting it from all sides…I end this by saying that I dont think Weis is a good fit. He has been away from the NFL too long, he couldnt even be successful at the college level,and I think he will bring a little bit of ego with him and he and Haley will clash.
Weis couldn't be successful
because he is a terrible Head Coach, who had zero head coaching experience. He was bad at the college level because he was unable to coach up his players and recruit defenses. His offenses were good, and he has proven that he can run an offense. As a coordinator he would not have to coach the players as much.
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by averagegatsby on Nov 29, 2009 11:20 AM CST up reply actions
And as much
hell and scrutiny as Weis has been through the last few yrs, he may not even want o coach for a while.
Now that we can agree on.
I’d take some time off if I were him.
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by KCSatchmo on Nov 29, 2009 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
Wies and Crennel are both marque names
which is exactly why pioli and haley will bring both in
think about it there isnt a lot of reasons marque free agents would come here now to play for a rumored hot head coach and a rumored egotistical gm but if you bring in a couple guys with these guys clout with nfl players it would change the perception of the chiefs and the direction they are heading very quickly.
i think wies makes sense because of everyones connections and think he is someone
who haley would trust unlike gailey
and i think crennel would have been here last season if his health would have allowed
and that pendergast is filling in for a season till his health gets better
by Bleedzredngold on Nov 29, 2009 11:01 AM CST reply actions
I couldn't disagree with you more...
Pioli has a history of not bringing in marquee names, and not only that but the interview Pioli did the other day refutes that also. He said that he is in the business of getting good football guys, not people who used to be good football guys.
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by averagegatsby on Nov 29, 2009 11:07 AM CST up reply actions
Showing a bit on ESPN about receivers and their attitude...
Showed T.O. livid on the sidelines… And guess who was in his face, yep Coach Haley.
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If more people had stood up to that jackass
…well he’d still be a jackass. God I hate TO
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by KCSatchmo on Nov 29, 2009 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
Merle Hodge talking about his Post Concussion life...
Makes me want to walk around with a helmet everywhere… I knew his career was ended because of them, but I didn’t know he flatlined. WOW!
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Thank you Fox for showing Saints vs Rams...
This game is going to be fucking awful.
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You mean Seattle right?
Yeah, let's just keep matriculatin' the ball down the field, boys! ...
by oldchiefsfan on Nov 29, 2009 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
Oh yeah...
i was thinking Seattle and typed Saints.
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by averagegatsby on Nov 29, 2009 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
I just don't know that Weiss to the Chiefs is a good idea
You have a young head coach that is still finding his way and trying to establish himself that wants his own offensive system run.
Does it really make sense to bring in a strong willed veteran offensive coordinator (who has MUCH more OC experience than Haley does) that might clash with Haley on play calling and that would want to install his own system that our offense would have to start learning YET AGAIN from scratch? What would that be, 4 offensive systems in the last 2 years?
Plus Weiss has not had nearly the success that people seem to think he has. His offenses have been in the bottom half of the league for all but 2 years that he was an offensive coordinator.
Let Haley keep his system, promote an assistant to start calling plays on a down to down basis where Haley can heavily influence him, JUST LIKE Weisenhunt did with him in Arizona.
Bringing in somebody that will challenge your young head coach is not a good way to give him credibility.
People will get down on Crennel and Weis
it’s AP nature… Apparently it’s cool to think negatively about everything… Well As it stands Weis and Crennel are the only coordinators available next off season that follow Pioli’s hiring tract uness a coordinator wahnts to make a lateral move (Which never happens). Then again with Mangini creating a total suckfest in Cleveland you can throw his name in too..
Unless you negative nancy’s are cool with Pendergast/ Haley over Crennel(or Mangini)/ Weis in 2010 all the arguments your making are senseless banter given the subject.
Time is a great teacher... unfortunately it kills all it's pupils.
by 808NaNz808 on Nov 29, 2009 1:16 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
why does everyone point to pioli's hiring past
when the decision will really be haley’s? if the gm is hiring coaches, it can undermine the head coach and cause problems. i’m not saying haley won’t hire either one (he did work with weis back in NY) but it will be his hire and not pioli’s
The only players I hurt with my words are the ones who have an inflated opinion of their ability. I can't worry about that.
Bill Parcells
Knowledge is confidence. And confidence lets you play fast.
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