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Around SBN: The Gift Of The 2003 Tigers

Todd Haley: Brilliant Personnel Guy? Or Just a Guy?

In writing this column, I know exactly what I want to write. The problem is, I don't. On the one hand, some of Todd Haley's personnel decisions have been really confusing. There have been plenty of surprise cuts throughout the year and some players have started in the place of others who seemed more deserving. On the other hand, Haley's been right on several occasions. The good news is, as time passes by, more and more of his personnel decisions appear to be pretty good ones.

This may sound like a pretty small issue, but there are many that would argue that New England's success in the past was largely due to a partnership between Scott Pioli and Bill Belichick. It will be immensely helpful if Haley can help Pioli make good personnel decisions.


Let's start with the bad and then look into the good:

Star-divide

The Bad: Win Now? Or Build Through Youth:

I understand that there is a delicate balance between winning for now, and rebuilding for later. For as much as Herm Edwards has been mocked for his comment: "You play to win the game," the answer isn't always that obvious. Sometimes you have to play the lesser player that gives you less of a chance to win today, in the hopes that he will put your team in better shape to win tomorrow. Sometimes you don't play to win the game. Helloooo.

For the most part, Haley doesn't seem to mind playing young guys. That doesn't mean he's been perfect. Jamaal Charles is playing better and better and better every week. Let me ask the obvious question: why wasn't he playing all along? I understand that LJ was the Chiefs' primary back and that the Chiefs were committed to his contract and ultimately his playing time.  But I think in looking at Charles' success right now, there are more than a few people who wonder why he wasn't seeing more carries earlier in the season, if only as a change-of-pace back. Charles was barely getting about five carries a game and his role was largely limited to return and receiving duties. Had LJ not made a few stupid comments on Twitter, we'd still be wondering today if Charles had anything to offer in this league. Judging by his recent success, that would have been an outrageous oversight.

How about another classic example: Andy Studebaker. I really liked what I saw out of this kid on Sunday. I'm not sure that he can be an every-down OLB and he still has a lot to prove as a pass rusher, but I was really impressed with his play on run defense. There were several plays where I saw him trail an outside runner and slip between two blockers to influence the play. Now, this isn't as clear-cut of a case because Vrabel didn't play that poorly and because Studebaker wasn't exactly a prospect that made people do cartwheels. But it goes back to the idea that Haley needs to let his young guys play. Studebaker should have gotten more reps earlier in the season.

I wonder if the same situation is developing with their Safeties. John McGraw and Mike Brown are not answers at Safety. I like the idea of McGraw as a depth guy, but as a long-term starter, he's not a guy you can continually depend on. And don't let Brown's recent Defensive Player of the Year accolades fool you---he's still not a very good player. Two games ago, he benefitted from a few tipped passes where he happened to be in the right place at the right time. Last game, he got credit for making a nice sack at the right time. That doesn't change the fact that he is not a playmaker. As I said in an earlier column, he lets plays come to him; playmakers like Polamalu anticipate plays and blow them up before they get to them.

Hopefully, you see where I'm going with this. Neither McGraw or Brown have anything to offer this team in the long-term. And it's not like they're offering anything much in the short-term. They're in there because they don't make a lot of mistakes. I want the Chiefs to win now, but I would much rather watch Morgan make mistakes and see if he improves over time than watch two Safeties with zero upside play mistakeless football at an average level. If this was a 5-4 team, I can understand what Haley's doing. But this is a 3-6 football team. You have to give the young player with upside some in-game reps. Even if you don't start him the whole game, you do not keep him inactive on the roster or let him rot on your bench. McGraw or Brown are not going to be starters two years from now. Morgan could be. I don't know if Morgan will shine as Charles has, but it's hopefully a lesson to Haley that his young guys might surprise him.

Haley got lucky on Charles and Studebaker. The problem is, he only found out what they're made out of because he had no other choice. When LJ mouthed his way off of the team and Vrabel fell to injury, Haley didn't have much choice but to go with youth. I want to see Haley become more proactive about evaluating young players during the rebuild. It's time to see what Morgan is made of. If he fails, he fails. At least you know he isn't the answer. If he succeeds, well, then suddenly you have one less need to fill in the upcoming offseason.

The Good: Haley's Smarter Than We Give Him Credit For

I've been critical about a lot of moves Haley has made so far this season. And you know what? In many cases, I've been flat-out wrong.

The most glaring example is Derrick Johnson. I couldn't understand why DJ was in Haley's doghouse. As he's gotten more and more playing time, I'm beginning to understand why. He's not really that good. I know some people will point to his "improved" play on Sunday against Pittsburgh as a validation that he's getting better and should have been getting more playing time in the first place. I would have to disagree. DJ made a lot of big, flashy plays. Some of them came at key moments. But if you actually watch him snap for snap, you'll find that he still makes way too many mistakes for a player of his experience level. I don't like the angles he takes to make tackles. In many cases he overruns his gap. In other cases he whiffs on his assignment. The commentators on Sunday very aptly pointed out that DJ's missed assignment led to a receiver waltzing into the end zone untouched. I sense that Haley doesn't like DJ because he freestyles too much. Like a Lavar Arrington, he'll make a few big plays, but he'll make some headscratchingly bad ones too. Haley wants consistency. DJ doesn't give him that. I get that.

The other glaring example is Dwayne Bowe. There were some who wondered if maybe his struggles were due to the fact that he's getting separation but Cassel isn't hitting him quick enough. I'm starting to understand now why Haley has been so tough on Bowe.  Thusfar this season, he hasn't been very good. Maybe some of that is on the quarterback, but given Cassel's recent success with Chris Chambers in the lineup, you have to think it's not all on Cassel. I don't agree with Haley's decision to play musical chairs with his receiver corps in the offseason and strip Cassel/Bowe from quality reps. But I do agree more and more with his decision to be tough on Bowe.

Tough Decisions Ahead:

Haley's going to have some very tough decisions to make. His job will actually be much tougher next year than it was this year. In many instances, Haley had to choose between crap and crap. And in many of those instances, it seemed pretty clear that Haley chose to scrap certain players because they weren't "Haley guys." Yet in other instances, as with Charles and Studebaker, he lucked into the right decisions by players getting injured. Arguably, the only position where he's installed a ton of accountability is at the Wide Receiver position, a position that he knows very well from his assistant coaching days.

Next year, he'll need to make much tougher decisions. He'll have to decide whether to play a late-round rookie or to bench one of the veteran Haley guys. It was easy for Haley to bench a Derrick Johnson or a Tank Tyler or a Bernard Pollard who either didn't fit his system or didn't fit his player profile. I wonder if he'll find it nearly as easy to bench a guy like Lance Long or Mike Vrabel. The same applies to guys he likes a lot because they bought into the program---what if Branden Albert doesn't get much better? When do you pull the plug on him? What if Matt Cassel doesn't improve with a better supporting cast? What if Tyson Jackson doesn't improve over time? How do you justify starting a 7th round rookie over a player who's playing average,

Remember, Dick Vermeil made a lot of sweeping changes after his first season as a head coach for Kansas City. Once he got his guys in the door, he was loyal probably to an extreme. It's easy to push a guy like Tyson Jackson onto the starting roster, given his draft credentials, but is it going to be nearly as easy to put in a raw 4th round guy with upside to replace an average veteran who doesn't make mistakes? That's going to depend heavily on Haley's ability to see things in practice that he believes will translate onto the field. His inability to see potential in Charles or Studebaker make me pause at this question. They don't make me panic, but they do make me hesitate to answer that question with any kind of certainty. 

If Haley can get the personnel side right, that is going to go a very long way to shaping the Chiefs into a team that has a chance to go places.

Comment 83 comments  |  10 recs  | 

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Lucked into the decision?

Most low level draft picks like Studebaker have to take advantage of any playing time they get because that is about the only way they will replace a more experienced starter. And that usually happens from the starter getting injured. That is how Tom Brady got his chance in NE.

And Studebaker has admitted that he gets a lot of help from Vrabel so he was probably not that good earlier in the year.

by tevans96 on Nov 28, 2009 7:26 AM CST reply actions  

Exactly.

Both Studi and Charles were not that good five games ago. It is easy to look back and say – Yeah we should have done it.

Charles was fumbling all the time. I didn’t want them running the ball in the first few games.

by ALR on Nov 28, 2009 11:19 AM CST up reply actions  

As opposed to 1-9 last year at this point

and showing no signs of improvement. The current team looks like it may win a few more games. They seem to be getting better at least.

by Ribs59 on Nov 28, 2009 9:49 AM CST up reply actions  

But remember

a few weeks ago, when there was plenty of people screaming at the top of their lungs that this was the worst team in the NFL and we wouldn’t win a game.

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Nov 28, 2009 10:01 AM CST up reply actions  

Very Good, Stag - rec'd

"Bigamy is having one wife too many. Monogamy is the same." ~Oscar Wilde

by Big Chief on Nov 28, 2009 8:09 AM CST up reply actions  

Hey Stag,

  do you mean ryan as in sean ryan’s games were a fluke? cuz I totally agree.

by seipher77 on Nov 28, 2009 12:30 PM CST up reply actions  

DV and Al Saunders didn't know what they had in Priest Holmes

Took them 6 games to figure out Priest was a starter. A few more to figure out he was something special. A few more to figure out Priest was a Chiefs Hall-of-Famer.

Mistakes happen. Also, we don’t know what happens in practice. The coaches see so much more than we do. They have information that make make them hesitant to put a guy on the line up—- maybe he’s a fumbler in practice, maybe he misses assignments. It all washes out over time.

I like the fact the Chiefs wouldn’t sit still on the RT. They now have a reasonable fix. I like the fact that they have continued to tinker with RG. Goff wasn’t the answer. WR was overhauled in season—- that’s been great and it still needs off-season work. I like the fact they kept tinkering with TE. Pope is better than Ryan. I like what they are doing at ILB. Belcher is a player. And safety? McGraw/Brown are better than Pollard/Page, IMHO.

I see progress with Magee. Gillberry has been better than anyone could expect.

I think the Chiefs are as good or better in making these kind of decisions than at any time I can remember. Remember, Marty didn’t know that Gannon was the better QB over Grbac.

by ChiefConcern on Nov 28, 2009 8:05 AM CST reply actions   2 recs

And AJ Smith overruled Marty on Drew Brees-Flutie-Rivers-...

You might be right about Peterson overruling Marty on Gannon. But Marty got it wrong, a LOT. And putting Bono back in off the hand injury probably wasn’t Peterson.

I don’t know that Haley’s all that much smarter than Schottenheimer, but at least he has a system in place where the guy who’s hurt has to earn his minutes back, if his replacement is prospering.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Nov 28, 2009 2:32 PM CST up reply actions  

NO question...

that Bowe is not a mega talent. He’s very slow and that’s huge in the NFL if your a receiver. That’s minus 2 points right there. He drops a LOT of passes. A LOT! I know some of you will point to his yardage last year etc.

But when your only job is catching and running with the ball, and your the ONLY viable option at receiver, well duh. Dropping passes as often as he does is a HUGE problem whether you like to admit it or not AP peeps. That’s minus 2 because that’s your ONLY job.

Not a strong route runner. Doesn’t have the ability to see the blitz and break a route off during his routes either. Very one dimensional receiver overall. So that’s -1.

10-2-2-1=5 AVERAGE!

So I agree Jon about Bowe for sure absolutely, also I agree with the Charles issue. There’s no excuse for him especially having sat on the bench this long. I’ll concede Studebaker to Tevans96, cause that’s a very valid point for a defensive guy. I can’t fault Haley for Studebaker..but Charles is a whole nother story.

LJ had already started his antics for the 09 season before the season even started. Fighting over money and running his mouth. He averaged 2.7 yds…that’s enough right there. I would have been looking ANYWHERE else for help at RB at that point. Leaving LJ in as the every down back for as long as he did was inexcuseable. That much was glaringly obvious.

I’m not so onboard with the rest of it all though. I think next season will be interesting to say the least. Good article thanks Jon.

by krayfish on Nov 28, 2009 8:08 AM CST reply actions  

I agree with most

but Charles had a problem holding on to the ball, and I think the lesson was learned. I’ve always wanted to see him get more playing time, but I think he was also being taught some lessons.

by TXChiefan on Nov 28, 2009 9:14 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I agree on Charles...

and I also think that Haley knew he had a pretty good back in Charles and might have been saving him for next year to carry more of the load. Beat the crap out of 2.7, save Charles for the next year when Haley knew he would have more opportunities to win more games with having the guys more used to his system.

by RodeoChief on Nov 28, 2009 9:16 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm kinda that way, too.

I doubt others give this much credence, but I’d as soon not have seen a potential blue-chipper thrown to the wolves before the O-Line started showing some life. It’s still not an ideal situation for him, but the guys they have now do seem to give him a decent chance of gettin’ to the edge and even turning the corner.

I also doubt that this is the thinking of the coaches. But the way it’s turned out, somehow here in the 3rd quarter of the season, the offense is undeniably quicker.

As for Charles’ fumbling, maybe it’s something they saw a lot of in practice and worked on. But the perception that he’s a fumbler isn’t in line with (last I checked) only 3 fumbles on his career.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Nov 28, 2009 1:36 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Rec

Charles fumbling is an Urban Legend.
I do like that LJ got the wear and tear this year as opposed to Charles.
Maybe a lucky thing for US.

We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram

by Steve_Chiefs on Nov 28, 2009 3:07 PM CST up reply actions  

I wouldn't say that Bowe is very slow...

I would say he is at least as fast as Jerry Rice who was by no means a burner. I dont ever remember him outrunning anyone. His greatness came from his work ethic and attention to detail.

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Nov 28, 2009 10:04 AM CST up reply actions  

Rice had a poor 40 time. But he had GREAT speed.

Bowe doesn’t have great speed. He’s a guy you throw to whether he’s covered or not, and good thing, because he usually is.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Nov 28, 2009 1:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Rice ran a 4.71 40 coming out of college.

Dwayne Bowe ran a 4.40.

I agree that 40 times aren’t everything, but 4.4 speed is hardly very slow, and 4.71 is hardly GREAT speed.

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Nov 28, 2009 1:40 PM CST up reply actions  

You're confusing running in shorts on a track

with running faster than anyone else on the field.

To say that Bowe’s faster than Rice was at the same age is not in line with the facts, at least not as I understand them.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Nov 28, 2009 2:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Speed is Speed...

Rice’s brilliance and his onfield speed was his quickness and direction change. He was able to make 90 degree cuts in his route running he stayed a step ahead of the competition not because of his god given talent but because of his work ethic.. Perhaps we are actually arguing the same thing differently. Bowe has more straight line speed, and if he were to ever but in the work he could do it to.

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Nov 28, 2009 2:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Just need a comp WR to let Bowe show

We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram

by Steve_Chiefs on Nov 28, 2009 3:08 PM CST up reply actions  

I disagree

I think Bowe remains to be seen for 1 reason.

He has ALL the tools to be a huge talent. Speed isnt THAT big of a deal..when you have guys like Larry Fitz, Terrell Owens, and other posession WR’s who arent known for speed. When youre 6’3, 210+lbs and can jump and catch the ball at its highest point, speed becomes less of a factor. Bowe has shown many times that he can jump and catch the ball over DB’s. He’s done it before, and I’m sure we’ll see it many more times. AND…Bowe ran a 4.40. Boldin ran a 4.7! Fitz ran a 4.63.

I think it’s funny that people talk about Bowe as a route runner. Let me start by asking if you have season tickets? If not, how many Chiefs games do you go to a year? The reason I’m asking..is because watching the games on TV, you don’t GET to see the route ran by the receiver most of the time! The camera stays on the QB..you don’t get to see whats happening down field much. Sometimes they show a replay of a WR trying to get open but its not very often. So how do you know Bowe’s route running ability?

The other thing…saying that Bowe cant break off his routes? How do you know what they playcall was? How do you know what his route was supposed to be? Thats the thing about WATCHING football. We dont know what was audibles were called, what routes were changed, if a receiver ran his intended route or not..we never know. I do know that against Oakland when we went for it on 4th down, Bowe broke off his route and was wide open in the endzone.

People made up excuses for Cassel saying that he was rolling out and couldn’t of made that pass, that DBowe never should have went that way. BULLSHIT. I watched the game..I watched the play. Over and over again. Cassel definitely could have made that pass..how could he not of? Bowe was damn near wide open 2 steps into his route. Cassel didn’t see him. He wasn’t even looking at Bowe, he was looking to the sideline.

Finally..issues with catching the ball are inexcusable. Do you know who has been at the top or near the top of the drops list for SEVERAL years in his career, if not most of them? T.O. I’m not saying its excusable in any way. But when Bowe drops one, and turns around and makes an amazing catch, it gives me hope that with a little bit more time, he can be coached, and learn to focus on the catch. I mean..when hes in the air against a defender and makes the catch..its because hes FOCUSING on making the catch..because there isnt shit he can do after the catch. Its the EASY passes that he drops..because he knows hes going to catch the ball..so hes concentrating on what he is about to do after the catch..and ends up dropping it. Some people say that catching the ball cant be coached..which is true, IF the hands are the problem. I don’t think its his hands..not after some of the catches hes made in his short career. I think hes got the hands. Its a lack of focus.

I think Bowe needs another offseason with Haley and if Bowe’s drops arent reduced by next season, THEN I would start to worry.

by Petey14 on Nov 28, 2009 2:15 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

All good points

I agree that this season was a great wake up for Bowe. I think he has the capability and talent to be huge in the league. His benching, suspension, and the acquisition of Chambers will help him to grow up mentally and settle down from the cockyness. Some of that is good, but you have to back it up with results. Once he comes back and after the next off season, I think we will see a seasoned and pro-bowl caliber D-Bowe.

by TXChiefan on Nov 28, 2009 2:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Some pretty good points. But don't draw parallels with Owens and expect me to think more highly of Bowe.

And in his prime, Owens was one of the fastest guys in the league. So saying Bowe is a slow TO doesn’t recommend him. TO or Bowe can be unstoppable at times, but neither’s been a guy I want to go to when the chips are down.

So are you saying that Bowe consistently runs great routes? I don’t get to go to the games, but I’ve seen numerous examples of where Bowe is slow off the blocks and doesn’t run a very good route, or failed to make the read and wasn’t where he was supposed to be.

A lot of these problems disappear, as do criticisms of Cassel for not finding him, once Cassel gets some more time and better passing lanes. And Bowe’s looked more consistent with his hands this season. As long as we’re clear on the fact that Bowe is a possession receiver still working on his consistency and not quite a bona fide #1, just yet. Closest thing the Chiefs have to that, now, is Chris Chambers, and they’re likely better short-term with Long and Wade playing pesky and quick than they were with Bowe playing big and plodding.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Nov 28, 2009 2:46 PM CST up reply actions  

I definitely

am not comparing Owens to Bowe..I’m simply saying that a receiver who has produced..ALOT..in his career..was also near the top of the league in drops throughout his career.

Owens was never “one of the fastest guys in the league” to my knowledge. He ran a 4.6 coming into the NFL..and I’ve never heard TO be described the way.

In my response to Krayfish, I simply asked if he had been to the games, because if he did, he’d have more insight than me to say whether Bowe runs good routes or not. I watch every game on TV..and I dont see how you can make any of those claims. We cant see downfield. Sure you can see Bowe at the LOS, but I dont see these “numerous examples” of Bowe being slow off the line. Sure, maybe here and there but those CB’s are getting paid too..sometimes they win the battle. You cant say Bowe is a bad player because of that..it happens to the best WR’s too.

How do you know he doesnt run good routes if you cant even see him throughout most of the play? If you watch the games on TV, you have just as much to go off as I do..and thats not much..because we dont get to see the route being ran.

That brings me to my next point. If Bowe “wasnt where he was supposed to be”, how would you know? How do you know where he WAS supposed to be? This was my point to Krayfish. You dont know the play called, you dont know what his route was supposed to be, so how can you criticize him and say he was in the wrong place?

We’re definitely clear that Bowe is a possession receiver still working on consistancy and not quite a bona fid #1 yet. Keyword being YET. And I completely disagree that the closest thing we have is Chambers..the closest we have IS Bowe. He’s still a young receiver working on his game. Chambers, though playing well, is going to be on the decline from here on out in terms of yearly production. He might produce more next year (because he’ll be here a full season) but after that, Chambers production will be declining.

Chambers is no closer to a “bona fide #1 WR” than Bowe is. Chambers hasnt put up nearly 2500 yards and 16 TD’s in the last 3 seasons. If a young WR like Bowe can put up those numbers, at that point in his career, I’m VERY excited to see how he can produce during his prime, especially when an OL is built to protect Cassel.

by Petey14 on Nov 28, 2009 7:18 PM CST up reply actions  

catching the ball can be coached...

as a goalie coach in soccer (i know its a different sport but the techniques of catching the ball r the same), i can tell u that there r plenty of drills to help a person’s hands to catch a ball. it just takes a lot of work and being motivated to get better.

by MountainManMike on Nov 29, 2009 3:03 AM CST up reply actions  

I've bagged on Haley's 'right 53' too

Mainly because of the demotion of DJ. DJ is an awesome talent, but he’s less than consistent. I’ve been of the opinion that ‘the right coach’ could unleash DJ and help him realize his potential. Haley doesn’t take that appoach. And as a realist, I have to admit Haley doesn’t have that luxury in his position.

Haley’s philosophy toward motivating players is that players have to motivate themselves—if you don’t have your head screwed on straight and bring everything in your tank, you risk being demoted, traded, or outright fired. It’s a practical and effective approach, but it’s a style that’s not going to work for every player on our current roster. DJ will be gone, and will likely become a star wherever he lands. Bowe may very well become trade bait, and will likely become a star wherever he lands.

But at the end of the day, our football team will be stronger. We’re obviously not the most talented team in the NFL, but we are one of the least penalized (a sign of good coaching) and we play stronger in the 2nd half, also a sign of good coaching. We just beat the defending superbowl champs (good coaching and a lot of luck) and I am looking forward to see how we fare in our rematch against the bolts.

by Pilcrow on Nov 28, 2009 8:41 AM CST reply actions  

How many DC's

and or LB coaches has DJ played for in the NFL so far? DJ will break out and become a star when he decides to do it. Inconsistent is an understatement, same problem as Pollard only more upside and less nonsense. DJ is being given a chance again because of his athletic ability and play making potential.

Can’t blame Haley because DJ isn’t reaching his potential, DJ was already there long before the current regime moved in.

I'm not a smart man

by Gumpster on Nov 28, 2009 9:10 AM CST up reply actions  

You're right.

DJ not reaching his potential IS NOT Haley’s fault. But on the other hand, Coach Haley is an OC at heart and hasn’t made DJ’s development a priority. DJ has great potential, perhaps more than any other player on our current roster. I’m frustrated with DJ for not taking advantage of the opportunities that he has.

So, for the rest of the season, I expect to see what I’ve seen from number 56—occasional flashes of brilliance and raw athletic talent, interspersed with long stretches of playing out of position and over-pursuit.

by Pilcrow on Nov 28, 2009 10:35 AM CST up reply actions  

Great Potential?

How many real jobs can you name that pay people on potential?

I get paid for my work. I don’t do it I don’t get paid. Talent alone is not going to make you a good player. Look at Cutler. He has potential. Doesn’t he?

by ALR on Nov 28, 2009 11:26 AM CST up reply actions  

Paying for potential is the norm in the NFL

How many millions are we paying Tyson Jackson? How many millions did the raiders pay for turtle, aka Heyward Bey. Some coaches make lucrative careers out of helping players achieve their potential.

by Pilcrow on Nov 28, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions  

Agreed. But for how long?

2-3 years max, and that’s it. After that you have to work. TJ, Dorsey, HB and others are in their first/second year. If they don’t produce by the 3rd than you don’t pay people on potential anymore.

by ALR on Nov 28, 2009 11:37 AM CST up reply actions  

I think we are on the same page re:DJ

DJ is a player who drives me nuts, and I can see why coach Haley isn’t starting him. He plays good football, but not smart football. His decision-making process appears flawed, and that’s not something I know how to fix… I’m no coach. He routinely does something stupid—but at the same time his occasional flashes of brilliance kill me. If his head was screwed on straight, he could be as good as anyone in the league.

DJ’s contract is up, so next year he can sign where he wants. We won’t burn a franchise tag on him, so unless something strange happens he’ll be in a different uniform.

by Pilcrow on Nov 28, 2009 11:55 AM CST up reply actions  

unless they get a new collective bargaining agreement in place

DJ will be a restricted free agent so it’s possible that if he does go, we could at least get compensation for him

The only players I hurt with my words are the ones who have an inflated opinion of their ability. I can't worry about that.
Bill Parcells

Knowledge is confidence. And confidence lets you play fast.
Bill Parcells

by kcguy on Nov 28, 2009 12:54 PM CST up reply actions  

if there is an uncapped year next year

it will mean you have to have 6 years in the league to become an ufa instead of 4

The only players I hurt with my words are the ones who have an inflated opinion of their ability. I can't worry about that.
Bill Parcells

Knowledge is confidence. And confidence lets you play fast.
Bill Parcells

by kcguy on Nov 28, 2009 1:14 PM CST up reply actions  

cutting pollard

was a mistake to me. i know he was a bit of a one trick pony, but do we really think morgan was better? pollard fits our system even more now as we have put mcgraw in this hybrid saftety/lb role. pollard would have been perfect for that.

i did get some laugs in the texans vs titans game because the announcers kept boasting about pollard’s coverage skills.
I cried a little too because he actually was covering fairly well

by SillyHatDay on Nov 28, 2009 8:44 AM CST reply actions  

Agree

Really disappointed with that move.

by TXChiefan on Nov 28, 2009 9:14 AM CST up reply actions  

True--but would KC have gotten this Pollard in 2009?

He’s playing with his old secondary coach, Dave Gibbs, in another under-4-3 overall scheme in Houston. He’s getting a chance to be on a team with a higher level of talent, a proven offense, and a need.

Remember, they picked him up off of the street…how do you think sitting there, unclaimed on the waiver wire, tripped BP’s trigger?

Frankly this is a move that is best for everyone. We needed the Houston Pollard this year, sure, but I don’t think that guy would’ve showed up without being cut in the first place.

"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"

-Marty Schottenheimer

by go_saleaumua on Nov 28, 2009 9:49 AM CST up reply actions   2 recs

Much like our version of Chambers

Compared to his level of play in San Diego.

"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius, in contrary to Glenn Dorsey lining up in the 2-tech

by ArrowSpread on Nov 28, 2009 9:52 AM CST up reply actions  

+ Agreed

Team play is greater then the sum of talents on the team. We have a team without a lot of talent. However we do have a team that plays together. Did you see the reaction after the last win?

by ALR on Nov 28, 2009 11:29 AM CST up reply actions  

EXCELLENT

comparison.

I’ve been looking for a good comparison to Pollard because I’m tired of people saying we should have kept him.

McGraw is not playing a “hybrid LB/S” like someone up above said. McGraw just has good reaction and is able to run downfield from coverage and make a big hit.

3-4 defense = 2 cover safeties..essentially 2 free safeties playing both sides of the field. Usually the strong safety..even though they want him as a cover guy..still needs to be a hitter. Honestly, I would like to see Page play Strong instead of Free safety. Page is a big hitter also and has better coverage skills than any of our other current safeties, but hes not really a GREAT cover guy like we would want at the FS position.

Pollards success is a product of being in a defense that fits him. Pollard is playing in the same defense he played in at college. In KC, he was in that Cover 2 4-3 which..from the safety position..is alot like the 3-4 Safety position. Pollard is able to play as a run support strong safety..period..end of story.

by Petey14 on Nov 28, 2009 2:27 PM CST up reply actions  

They were simply wrong about his coverage skills. Not really up on players, was my take.

The pass I saw Pollard defend was one where the TE (I believe) stopped and stood in the same place for 3 seconds, and Pollard just stood there next to him. He’s giving a defense that generally appears unsound a spark and some nice highlights. And that’s good for him and the Texans like it, even though their big weakness is still defense.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Nov 28, 2009 1:42 PM CST up reply actions  

I like the vast majority of personnel moves they have made this year

No way we were going to be competitive this year. maybe could have put something together with FA’s to get into the playoffs, but would have been sent right back home. I’m more of a steady pace wins the race kinda guy. Long term investment over get rich quick.

There have been a few bad moves, but everybody makes bad personnel moves in the NFL. Too many variables, and the execution is at such a high level. guys are separated by 100ths of seconds and it makes a huge difference.

Keep evaluating everyone, get experience and playing time, go into the off season knowing exactly what you need, and what you want. I don’t think it is a coincidence that we have so much cap space, and are heading into the looming CBA issues and one of the most talented drafts in recent memory. Kinda like the perfect storm of team building.

I'm not a smart man

by Gumpster on Nov 28, 2009 9:18 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

We'll see what happens, but I like your perspective, Gumpster.

Having a good eye for a prospect before he even plays for you is clearly important. System things are probably what sets you apart from other organizations, though. Studebaker, for instance, seems like luck, but think of all the guys many thought were better than he, and somehow, he makes the 53, and somehow, he shines in his first start.

It’s tough for us to parse, sitting outside the organization. The calculus is unclear. The departure of a couple big names. The emergence of a no-name. An overall WR profile from slower to quicker, and higher football IQ. Better and better team D on a unit with some obvious holes that somehow were not exploited at crunch-time.

While I don’t expect to see it as much roster-churning so late next year, I notice that the Chiefs were where the other teams were not. Pioli was clearly primed to work the waiver wire with team needs aligned with the players that showed up. Not making a splash in the draft on O-Line, he picked up some nice depth and a bit of upside from teams that went heavy at that position group, with some pretty good castoffs.

And while it took longer than I hoped, offense, defense and special teams ARE playing smarter. This has been mentioned a number of times here and elsewhere, but on D, DJ is most clearly the guy whose head isn’t quite into it, yet. Between his injuries and this apparent mental thing, whether he’s getting enough minutes should be the last thing we’re dissin’ the coaches for.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Nov 28, 2009 2:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Rec

A perfect storm for the Chiefs Benefit

We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram

by Steve_Chiefs on Nov 28, 2009 3:23 PM CST up reply actions  

This Mike Brown not being very good

Deal is starting to irk me. I agree he’s gotten old and a step slower. But to say he only got his interceptions because he “happened” to be in the right place at the right time—as if he’s blindly running around on the field and the ball luckily/magically fell into his hands is ludicrous. He was in position to make the tackle.

The man has picked it up the last few games. He’s not the answer at SS, but give props when they’re due.

Otherwise, nice article!

by Chief-Eli on Nov 28, 2009 9:36 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

Re: Brown

Thanks for the props. On Mike Brown, he’s a stopgap at best. It’s a shame, but he just doesn’t have the closing speed he had when he was in Chicago.

In my book, there are two kinds of safeties. There are those that break up plays before they develop and there are those that are in the position to make plays after they happen. Brown is the latter of the two. Polamalu will blow up a screen pass at the line of scrimmage because he sees it 3 seconds before it happens. Brown will wait for the RB to get upfield 10 yards and then make the tackle. Polamalu will anticipate and pick off a pass by using his closing speed and instincts to fly to a pass. Brown will either see it too late or not get there quick enough, so he’ll make the tackle once the receiver has already gained 10-15 yards.

I’m not saying Brown is bad. Actually, I think he’d be a decent backup for the Chiefs. But when you’re on the wrong end of a losing season, you can’t settle for the older backup veteran with upside. You have to play the young guy who’s going to make some mistakes but has a lot more upside.

by Jon Yoon on Nov 28, 2009 10:55 AM CST up reply actions  

We might see more Morgan and Washington.

But don’t discount how much value Brown has brought to the defense. It was #30 hanging on for dear life to Big Ben’s jersey, allowing his teammates to swarm the QB for the sack.

And the more the front 7 can get pressure by dialing up blitzes (which they’re finally better at than offense are at protections), the better Brown is going to be in coverage. But I’ll grant you that giving the QB much time is going to expose the entire secondary’s general lack of coverage skills, and they need a Brown who can help lead the way when they mix things up out of necessity.

Brown will make sure that the one guy he has to beat to the QB is taken out so the LB coming behind him has a clear path. Pollard would make a superhuman effort to get to the QB, himself, barely miss, and his outstretched feet would trip the LB coming behind him. Most would think what a great losing effort Pollard made. I see Corey Mays get a sack and notice #30 setting the table for his glory.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Nov 28, 2009 2:15 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm disappointed that we haven't seen more of Washington

Brown was a great pickup for us. Agree that he isn’t what he used to be, but just like Vrable, a good teacher and example for the youngsters. What is up with Washington? I figured him to be on the field more often.

by TXChiefan on Nov 28, 2009 2:31 PM CST up reply actions  

He had some lowlights in limited play.

So far, hasn’t shown much on the field, and been instrumental in some blown coverages.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Nov 28, 2009 2:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Brown is frustrating

He and DJ are two defensive players that could easily make or break a game. Bottom line, they’re great players that make too many mistakes.

by ChiefsDude on Nov 28, 2009 9:54 PM CST up reply actions  

With regard to Derrick Johnson

Haley is in a bad spot. Haley wants consistency, and in his eyes, Johnson doesn’t give it. So Johnson doesn’t start. Then when Johnson does get in the game, he’s even more motivated to “freestyle” so that he can show he deserves to be on the field. But this only gets him even further into Haley’s doghouse. The trouble is that most fans notice Johnson more when he is freestyling, because that’s when he makes his biggest plays.

For Johnson, it’s a vicious cycle that isn’t helping him get back into a starting role… while most fans are left scratching their heads about what Haley is doing by keeping Johnson off the field.

It reminds me somewhat of the situation when Vermeil first became the head coach. With Gunther Cunningham as the DC, players were encouraged to make plays. But under Greg Robinson, players were encouraged to stick to their assignments. Some of them who had been effective under Gunther weren’t up to the task of playing in this wholly different style – and players like Donnie Edwards were given their walking papers.

Then Gunther returned, and drafted Johnson as a defensive playmaker. Now, history repeats itself. Gunther is gone again, and another DC has come in with a philosophy somewhat similar to Robinson’s. And Derrick Johnson doesn’t fit.

John

"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"

by RDOGuy on Nov 28, 2009 9:41 AM CST reply actions   2 recs

Good point RDO.

Although I watched DJ, live, under Gunther too…and there wasn’t much different there: A nice tackle here, a sack there, and several blown tackles and poor angles to the ball. At least with Donnie Edwards, when he was out there making plays he actually made them.

Ahh, fond memories…

We’ll have to see what comes of DJ in the offseason.

"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"

-Marty Schottenheimer

by go_saleaumua on Nov 28, 2009 9:54 AM CST up reply actions  

Haley needs to keep giving him spot duty

Push his trade value up a bit, find a replacement, then trade him. He hasn’t gotten it in 5 years, he aint gonna get til he’s let go.

This guy has been given his chances with a few different D.C’s, and his big plays are overshadowed by etremely inconsistent play. At some point we gotta stop going to bat for this guy.

"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius, in contrary to Glenn Dorsey lining up in the 2-tech

by ArrowSpread on Nov 28, 2009 10:00 AM CST up reply actions  

I am terrified of DJ being let go, and him becoming a Raven.

DJ becoming a superstar there because of the coaches and players around him and then everyone here just exploding with all the HALEY IS AN IDIOT talk.

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Nov 28, 2009 10:08 AM CST up reply actions  

What's the problem?

The only thing that will prove whether or not Haley knows what he doing will be if the team becomes successful. If that happens, then the way ex-Chiefs perform on other teams won’t be an issue.

Until Haley can prove conclusively that what he’s doing works, you’re just going to have put up with that talk. Sorry…but there just isn’t much of a way around it.

John

"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"

by RDOGuy on Nov 28, 2009 10:43 AM CST up reply actions  

No I get it...

Its just that if DJ went to Baltimore and Ray Lewis took him under his wing to unleash his potential, the haters here will take that as Haley not knowing what he is doing. When in playing with Ray Lewis is unlike playing with any other player.

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Nov 28, 2009 10:55 AM CST up reply actions  

The "haters"?

Hating is, by definition, irrational. Those who do not think Haley is a good HC have plenty of evidence to support their views. So they can hardly be called irrational.

John

"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"

by RDOGuy on Nov 28, 2009 11:12 AM CST up reply actions  

Really?

How can you say Haley has done enough to prove he is a bad head coach. He hasn’t had the job long enough to prove one way or the other.

Fact of the matter is the Chiefs play disciplined football with few turnovers and penalties. I would say he is a pretty good coach.

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Nov 28, 2009 11:47 AM CST up reply actions  

Actually, Gatsby, that isn't what I said.

I said that those who don’t think he’s a good HC have plenty of evidence to support their views. Therefore, they aren’t irrational. Therefore, they aren’t “haters.” QED.

First you say that Haley hasn’t been here long enough to prove he’s a bad coach. Quite true. But IF that’s true, then he hasn’t been here long enough to prove he’s a good HC, either – yet you’ve concluded he’s a “pretty good coach.” Sorry, Gatsby… but you can’t have it both ways.

You’re perfectly entitled to your opinion about Haley. But I think it’s a mistake to characterize those with whom you disagree as “haters.”

John

"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"

by RDOGuy on Nov 28, 2009 12:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Where does it say that I think he is a good coach...

And they are haters because they are forming their opinion before there is enough data to prove one way or the other. The data people use to support their views has no merit, just because he is an asshole doesn’t mean he is a bad coach. To my amateur eye Haley has done nothing to prove he is a bad coach.

And even though I do think that he will be a head coach Ive never said without a doubt that he is, signs point to him as being one. His teams protect the ball and they aren’t penalized very much 2 signs of good coaching. So when the talent of this team is better there is no reason to think that they wont compete.

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Nov 28, 2009 1:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Ah shit...

second paragraph should read as

And even though I do think that he will be a good head coach Ive never said without a doubt that he is, signs point to him as being one. His teams protect the ball and they aren’t penalized very much 2 signs of good coaching. So when the talent of this team is better there is no reason to think that they wont compete.

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Nov 28, 2009 1:20 PM CST up reply actions  

I think he has all the tools

and that he will be a great for us. Interesting in his comments that he didn’t discount bringing in an OC and seemed to have more to say, but didn’t elaborate. I’ll bet they are waiting to see what shakes out with new OC possibilities on the market and would not be surprised to see someone brought in.

by TXChiefan on Nov 28, 2009 2:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Where does it say you think he's a good coach?

Uhhh… where you said

Fact of the matter is the Chiefs play disciplined football with few turnovers and penalties. I would say he is a pretty good coach.

Seems pretty clear to me that you think he’s a good coach.

The data people use to support their views has no merit, just because he is an asshole doesn’t mean he is a bad coach.

Who said anything about that? I am, in fact, strongly on record as saying that his deameanor shouldn’t be held against him.

Haley fired his OC less than two weeks before the season began. I won’t disagree that if Haley felt he and Gailey couldn’t get along, then it was time for Gailey to go – whenever that determination was made. But you can’t get around the fact that it was Haley’s JOB to determine if he and Gailey could see eye to eye back in February or March. So there he made an unequivocal mistake – by any reasonable standard.

You’re trying to draw me into an argument about Haley’s merits. Sorry… but I am not interested in that argument, because I agree with you: it’s too early to tell if he’s a good head coach.

My objection is not with your opinion on Haley, but rather to your characterization of those who do not agree with you as “haters.” This is perjorative term implying an irrational thought process. Well, there’s no reason to assume irrationality. There is ample room for disagreement about whether Haley is a good coach. There is no room, however, for disagreement on whether Haley has made some mistakes. He has. So you can’t refer to those who dislike Haley as a HC are irrational – and that’s precisely what you do when you refer to them as “haters.”

John

"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"

by RDOGuy on Nov 28, 2009 2:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Damnit...

too many conversations going.

Im not saying someone is a “hater” because they disagree with me, but because they are erring on the side of pessimism. Its the same people who are convinced Cassel sucks, who think DJ is the best LBer ever, and are convinced Pollard was the best Safety ever. And it figures that this argument is happening over a word I actually hate and have never used before. And just because he has made mistakes (though Im not as sure on them as you are apparently) doesn’t make him a bad coach either. Personally I really do not have a problem with anything he has done since getting here.

This space for rent.

by averagegatsby on Nov 28, 2009 3:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Oi vey

You know what, Gatsby? Never mind.

John

"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"

by RDOGuy on Nov 28, 2009 4:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Ray Lewis's career is up-and-down with his D-Line.

And that just might happen with DJ (and the rest of the KC LBs). It’s easier to play smarter when the d-line makes the processing job simpler.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Nov 28, 2009 2:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Constant change is hurting us

we need some stability

We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram

by Steve_Chiefs on Nov 28, 2009 3:29 PM CST up reply actions  

I think that a lot of that has settled down Steve.

I think we are now seeing the results of the players starting to gel somewhat and getting to know each other better.

Yeah, let's just keep matriculatin' the ball down the field, boys! ...

Get your Arrowhead Pride Wolf Pack T-shirt now!

by oldchiefsfan on Nov 28, 2009 3:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Excellent post, Jon...

Good at stirring up some discussion on a Turkey Day weekend. Well-written and thought out, as always.

"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"

-Marty Schottenheimer

by go_saleaumua on Nov 28, 2009 9:55 AM CST reply actions  

I watched the steelers game about three times

and Derrick Johnson made about 4 bad plays to 1 good play. He constantly missed tackles. I was always frustrated that Haley wouldn’t play him until I actually paid attention to his play. He’ll make a great play so it makes him look great. Then he’ll miss ten tackles. Dude has to go!

by raiderhater77 on Nov 28, 2009 10:09 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

+

I watched the game 5 times. DJ misses a lot of tackles. He is out of position most of the time. He is an average player. He doesn’t have the IQ for a starting. The best he can be is a rushing LB, and that is still not a given.

by ALR on Nov 28, 2009 11:34 AM CST reply actions  

Good Job Jon, well written and thought out.

While Haley is ultimately the one that is responsible for everything coaching or coordinating, I wanted to point out that he isn’t the only coach or coordinator with the Chiefs. Someone mentioned about Haley not spending enough time with DJ and coach him up to his potential. There are other coaches that are responsible for that. Gibbs the Linebackers coach for instance is responsible for coaching these guys up to their potential and teaching them technique. The hierarchy goes up from there and stuff rolls back down hill from Haley. I guess what I am trying to say here is that the coaching staff is just as much a team effort as it is with the players.

Haley has to rely on his defensive coaches heavily in all of this. He’s so busy with the offensive side of it he has to trust his defensive coaches and coordinator’s decisions. Yes, Haley bit off more than he can chew taking over the offensive coordinator’s job along with being the HC, but he now realizes that it’s to much for him. He’s even said as much. What’s that called? A “Rookie” mistake. Pioli let him do it. Again, a “Rookie” mistake. Mistakes that I am sure that neither one will make again. They have been learning throughout all of this. 95% of this organization has been scuttled and are new to this and are learning and making mistakes. Everyone is focused on Haley and the Players.

We need to be reminded on occasion that there are other coaches and other people in the organization that make this thing go. So I believe we need to start laying the blame or the accolade at the feet of the individual responsible. Everyone will make their mistakes from Clark Hunt down to the player.

One thing they are doing in my opinion is bringing this capsized ship upright. Now they have to get the ship ready to sail again. It’s going to be a long haul me mate’s, so brace ye self for it!
 

Yeah, let's just keep matriculatin' the ball down the field, boys! ...

Get your Arrowhead Pride Wolf Pack T-shirt now!

by oldchiefsfan on Nov 28, 2009 12:38 PM CST reply actions  

Rec

Excellent thoughts

We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09. Almost there :)
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Skins & Raiders! Pittsburgh Sweet!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram

by Steve_Chiefs on Nov 28, 2009 3:35 PM CST reply actions  

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