Some Wondering if Chiefs Coach Deserves Blame in Bowe Suspension
by Joel Thorman on Nov 21, 2009 10:11 AM CST
in 2009 Kansas City Chiefs Campaign
40 comments
In light of Dwayne Bowe's suspension earlier this week, I noted that I had received several responses from folks wondering what Todd Haley's role is in all of this. In fact, I spoke with two former players, one with the Chiefs, who also expressed some concern over the standards applied in the offseason.
Yesterday on 610 Sports, former Chief and two-time Super Bowl champion Mark Collins also wondered what Haley's role was in all of this. I was interested in his thoughts because his viewpoint is unique as a former player himself. Naturally, Collins aligned with the player on this one and articulated an argument that I think would resonate, whether good or bad, with a few players who have experienced offseason programs under similar conditions.
Per Collins, Haley shares in part of the blame for not preparing Bowe with the ability to meet the club's weight standards.
"If your coach is telling you to basically come in shape, be ready, don't be overweight," Collins said, "some players don't know how to work hard to lose weight, and I'm not saying that's Dwayne Bowe, but maybe he doesn't because he took a diuretic to do it quickly."
Collins acknowledges Bowe's part in this saying, "he took a short cut and got caught." However, he feels the team plays a larger role.
"If the people upstairs are telling you to do this and do that and not telling you how to do it then the players going to do and do what they feel is right for themselves. And sometimes those players do stupid things by not asking the trainers or medical staff if they can take it."
I'm not sure I can agree with this assessment. Like I said earlier in the week, I can understand this argument but I can't get past the fact that you're dealing with 53 players who are playing professional football because they have previously put in the necessary time to stay in shape and be prepared to play at a high level. In fact, Bowe's first two seasons in the NFL were very good.
Collins best point, I think, is acknowledging Bowe's production the last two seasons when he wasn't facing such strict standards.
"Last year did Dwayne Bowe take a diuretic? No. Then why did he do it this year? Because he was told to lose weight. He was pressured into a situation...he wasn't under that pressure last year and he was very productive."
This is assuming that Bowe didn't put on 30 pounds from the beginning of the 2008 season to the 2009 offseason, which is certainly a possibility. A knock on the Herm Edwards teams was that they were out of shape and couldn't keep it up late in games, which is part of the reason behind Haley's stringent conditioning program. That said, Bowe was productive even late into last season.
"I'm not saying Dwayne shouldn't get any blame because he does, and he deserves it. But I think Todd Haley does too."
I can respect Collins' argument because it is coming from the players perspective and I think it's only natural for him to align with the players. That said, if Haley deserves blame because he didn't provide Bowe with the proper methods of achieving the desired weight, then Bowe receives as much (if not more) for not telling that to the head coach or, as Collins says, asking the medical staff about the diuretic.
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Collins is embarrassingly wrong.
I heard the interview and even the anti-Haley co-hosts scoffed at Collins’ take. If Bowe can’t keep himself in condition and if he takes banned substances to make weight, he’s to blame. How is this even a question? How blinded by hatred for Haley does one have to be to lose all grip on reality? Personal responsibility is an adult thing. This isn’t even a close call. This is so clear it flushes out the folks who choose to live as children.
Yes
Both Chris and Cowboy disagreed with him. I think you’re right though that ultimately it comes down to the player. There’s no other way to go about it, really.
by Joel Thorman on Nov 21, 2009 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
I think this is an issue with all of the Chiefs organization
They should tell players to not take anything unless it comes directly from our training staff. Does anyone know where he got this diuretic? They better not have given it to him. But yeah, it’s everyone’s fault I’d say, but mostly Bowes. He shouldn’t be putting things into his body without the team’s OK. Sorry bud. Also, this reminds me of a child going to extremes to please a parent but not realizing the repercussions of their actions. I’d never say that Bowe is the most mature of our players, but I never thought he was this stupid.
once again, this is a "victim" mentality
at some point these guys have to look at themselves and say, “i got myself into this. no on else did.” haley did not direct bowe to do anything wrong – bowe chose to do something wrong. twice.
if he had never gained 30 extra pounds in the offseason, he never would have been under any pressure to lose weight to begin with. this is totally on bowe and no one else.
The only players I hurt with my words are the ones who have an inflated opinion of their ability. I can't worry about that.
Bill Parcells
Knowledge is confidence. And confidence lets you play fast.
Bill Parcells
Yep
And even if the coaching staff is asking him to lose weight that he doesn’t think he can lose then it’s his responsibility to say something to them (no matter how unlikely that is).
by Joel Thorman on Nov 21, 2009 10:29 AM CST up reply actions
Can't feel sorry for Bowe.
He has a professional training staff available to him to ask those questions. Use them. He wanted to have a good time and lose the weight at the last minute before he had to report (in my opinion). Be professional and use your resources.
I remember Dawson to Taylor, Kenney to Carson, and Blackledge catching the snap in his facemask. Seen it all...
I do think the pressure of the coach's conditioning demands motivated him...
However, as a professional, I do think Bowe should have done his homework. There’s been several high profile cases of this nature in the NFL and the thought should have crossed his mind. I guarantee there are resources available for him to consult. One quick phone call to the NFLPA offices would have put him in contact with someone who could have told him what to stay away from while he was shopping at GNC. In my opinion, any player in the NFL should check to see if it’s OK before they put any performance enhancing substance in their body. It’s a prominent enough issue that he should have been aware.
OTOH, it’s a damn diuretic. An immediate 4 game suspension for a first time offense seems overly harsh to me.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
Diuretics can kill a player in training camp. It's happened. Policy in reaction to that.
A professional athlete should keep himself in shape. Period.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
I understand
but it’s still harsh IMO
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
Valid point
most of the blame on on Bowe for using a substance to lose weight.
But Haley making such an issue of weight did contribute to it.
Albert lost weight as ordered and plays worse at the lower weight.
Bowe is a big possession receiver who gets hit every catch and he was better off with extra body mass – he is not a skinny speed guy.
It’s not like Albert’s lower weight is the only difference for him this season. He’s also playing in a completely different offense. How can you say which is to blame? You can’t just pick a something when there are multiple variables and put all the blame on it.
Good point.
But I think at the heavier weight, there were still some foot speed issues with Albert’s game. He’s quicker now, and now we’re seeing whether he can be the complete left tackle, and play with proper technique.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
I've watched B. Albert. It isn't he weight
It’s his brain. He blocks the wrong guy time and time again. He rarely is beat. Weight has NOTHING to do with Albert. There is no controversy when it comes to being in shape. This is a joke. Either you care or you don’t. The Chiefs have not cared for years. That’s changed.
by ChiefConcern on Nov 21, 2009 11:47 AM CST up reply actions
Relying solely on the training staff
is a risk in itself. How many documented cases of trainers giving players PEDs without their knowledge are there? We have all heard the “stories” of players claiming ignorance about what the trainers give them. The players go in the locker room after a game and the trainers are giving them shots for pain, rubs for sore muscles, drinks for dehydration, etc. IMO, most players probably never question what is in the shots, rubs, drinks, etc. In that instance, the players are at the mercy of the trainers.
Anyone who has never seen the movie “North Dallas Forty”, needs to do so. Though it came out in the 70s, many, many players still today claim it is the most realistic football movie ever made.
Haley also responsible for Hurricane Katrina.
This is just utter bullshit. Bowe is an alleged professional (also an adult) and should act like one. He earns millions of dollars so he can hire a nutritionist (possibly even a private chef) if necessary and he should have the DISCIPLINE to eat right and take care of himself. I can’t imagine the Chiefs don’t have a nutritionist on their payroll. And sorry about the all caps.
The really stupid thing in all this is what diuretics do — they cause weightloss by making the kidneys release fluids. If my understanding of this is correct, Bowe was taking them in and around the time of training camp. He’s doing a 2 a days in the summer heat and taking a supplement that will make his body lose even more fluids? Just stupid. This literally could have killed him.
I think this is pretty systematic of the lack of accountability in the Chiefs organization that had persisted for years.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
by Rev. Slappy on Nov 21, 2009 10:58 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
Not only a lack of accountability in the organization, but also
a lack of accountability that we have in society.
I agree with people when they say Bowe was driven to do this because he wanted to meet Haley’s tough goals. But bottom line is that the player has to take responsibility upon himself and do things the right way. If he doesn’t and chooses a less favorable way and gets caught then that i his own fault. This mentality that Haley shares the blame comes from a society that loves to pass the buck. No accountability what so ever for people making poor choices. It makes me sick to stomach to read the thousands of posts across the internet, and reading comments regarding this being Haley’s fault. Its like blaming the alcohol for someone driving drunk and killing another human being…not blaming the person that chose to drive while under the influence and incapable of driving responsibly. Society over time has decided that a “perp” is some how the “victim”.
by ChiefsFan79 on Nov 21, 2009 11:14 AM CST up reply actions
And we're on that road.
In a society where individuals can do no wrong, very little seems to go right, this from an Adam Smith “Invisible Hand” fan.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
It's about personal responsibility
Bowe was over weight at the end of last season as well as many Chiefs were after Herm’s training philosophy. Every NFL player knows there are banned substances and that one phone call will inform you if what you are about to buy is on the list. If Bowe had stayed in game shape last season then he wouldn’t have been under so much pressure this off season to get back into shape, it was His responsibility.
Too many are looking to blame the Head Coach for anything that does not work perfectly including weight gain and loss. When does it come down to the point of “your getting paid millions of dollars to play a game, Why would you do anything to mess that up?”
The point is everyone is responsible for their own actions. A call to the trainers might have helped, a call to the NFL would have been the best, but I’m sure even a call to his agent might have warned him of trouble. I’m personally starting to have a hard time with drafting players out of LSU, they all seem to have issues with being ready for games. Either weight problems, (see Russel) or a desire to practice as they wish, not as the team desires (See Bowe) or the habit of taking plays off (see the rest). At some point at time these guys have to understand that there are no short cuts and talent only gets you so far, the rest you have to work for. Stay in game shape and it’s not a issue you have to address in camp or on game day. Call if you have questions about what you are putting into your body, even if you don’t have questions a call to make sure will not get you suspended or fined. Bowe did what Bowe Choose to do, he tried to take a short cut and got caught.
is it me? or isn't about time the Lamar Hunt trophy belonged to His team?
This Chiefs team is closer to a new expansion team than it is a playoff contender, your expectations should match that.
The only way you can blame Haley for this
Is if he or his staff are the ones suggesting using the diuretic, which has happened with other coaching staffs in the past, or if they knew about it and looked the other way (like LaRussa and all the steroid users on his teams over the years).
It is not unreasonable for a coach to demand players get into shape (though I think Haley had different ideas of ideal weights than the previous regime, I don’t believe for a second that everybody on the team was just fat and lazy).
Amazing...
How Dorsey was able to finally get his weight down to the level the coaches wanted it to be at without using a diaretic (as far as we all know at this point…understand that I am speculating but am sure that if he had it would have come out around this same time). Dorsey manned up, acknowledged that he screwed up, suffered by not playing first string for a while and made it up with his performance and dedication.
Bowe could have done the same thing. As a matter of fact, when Bowe was sitting on the 3rd string back at the beginning of the season, makes you wonder now what Haley might have known back then that we didn’t. Hmm…
What the heck.
Have him put on an extra 15 or 20 pounds and play TE.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
With all the deficiancies that have manifested themselves on this team this year...
in retrospect it seems that pre-season weight loss should have been the least of our priorities. We are in Mid-November and we still have guys that are struggling with even the most fundumental football skills and displaying astonishing gaps in basic football IQ. Maybe if our O-Line focused more on consistant play and less on weight loss, we might be able to give our QB more than a 1/2 second’s worth of protection.
Oh please
If these guys can’t lose weight while learning the schemes, then the problem isn’t the focus….it’s the personnel.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Nov 21, 2009 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
WHY do yall back this garbage (so far) coach?
He hasn’t done really anything impressive to me. Herm could’ve won more than 2 by this time this year with the additions given to the coach this year. Haley has shown poor clock management just as Herm did. But the difference is that Haley has come across as a ego driven maniac on the sideline.
I’m hoping we get Cowher in a year. Haley does not look like the answer to me, at all. Weight never was an issue with Bowe. If anything to drill him on, its his hands Todd. C’mon. I think Collins’ view on this is refreshing. I understand and I myself am mad at Bowe for acting some foolishly. But I think there’s more behind this story than what most are telling us.
by ChiefsFanInTexas on Nov 21, 2009 11:50 AM CST reply actions
Oh and I think we both know
We should’ve lost the Oakland game last week. That was just as bad as a loss to me. Haley going for it on the 10 on 4th. You bang the for sure field goal with our stud kicker (who I might add is the only bright spot from this draft class), which would have given us a 9 pt lead, instead of 6. IDIOTIC, that could have and should have cost us the game. We got an early xmas gift from Heyward Bey.
by ChiefsFanInTexas on Nov 21, 2009 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
A win is as bad as a loss? That's an interesting philosophy.
So if in a Superbowl game Haley goes for it on fourth down from the 10 instead of kicking a field goal and the Chiefs still win the game 16-10 then that game counts as a loss?
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
There is a difference between backing him
and not blaming him for EVERYTHING that goes wrong. Bowe showed up with a big fat ass then took a shortcut to lose it. He showed poor decision making not only in how he took the weight off, but in allowing himself to put it on in the first place.
This isn’t Haley’s fault.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Nov 21, 2009 1:01 PM CST up reply actions
Why the hell would Cowher come here?
This is a joke, right? We don’t have talent or a big time QB. Why the hell do you think Haley is here? This team was/is in the toilet and it will take time, hard work, luck, etc. to turn it into a real NFL franchise again. No big time coach signs up for that kind of shit duty. Collins is a f’ing IDIOT. MORON. He made a fool out of himself. When Chris and Cowboy guffaw at you, you’re in trouble. These two Haley-haters couldn’t believe what they were hearing and neither could anyone else with any common sense. Here’s what is behind this story: Bowe is an immature fool. Read Gretz’s column on this the other day. He lays it out.
by ChiefConcern on Nov 21, 2009 1:04 PM CST up reply actions
I can't speak for anyone else
but I back this “garbage” coach because whether he’s the guy that gets them winning again or not, I think he’s exactly what this team needed right now. Someone to make them take accountability. Someone that will expect them to act like the professionals they are.
I have no idea whether Haley will be the guy that ultimately gets things turned around, but I think he’s establishing something that can only help in the future.
I carte-blanch blame Haley for everything.
Even global warming. Or the fabrication conspiracy of global warming. I rapport, you decide. Doesn’t Collins have something better to @#%ing speculate about?
NFL is a disgrace
When the players won the right to play this year. they made Goodell look like a punk. they took a diuretic got a 4 game suspension . but went to court and made goodell look a punk. so you could put the blame on goodell too.
by Charles # 1 chiefs fan on Nov 21, 2009 12:36 PM CST reply actions
Haley had Bowe on 4th team...
That b.s. not only denied him time with Cassel (yes it maters ask the really good QB’s and coaches) but put him undet the gun for a quick fix.
Yeah
leaving a guy on the 1st team when he shows up 30lbs overweight is a great way to reinforce your message.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Nov 21, 2009 1:03 PM CST up reply actions
Spicy
I've been rapping for about seveteen years okay? I don't write my stuff anymore I just kick it from my head you know what I'm sayin? I can do that. No disrespect but that's how I am.
by soybon on Nov 21, 2009 4:30 PM CST via mobile reply actions
accidental post on my iphone while attempting to google "spicy beef korma recipe"
I've been rapping for about seveteen years okay? I don't write my stuff anymore I just kick it from my head you know what I'm sayin? I can do that. No disrespect but that's how I am.
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