Draft Question
by kcchiefstd on Nov 18, 2009 12:54 PM CST
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PrintI've been looking over all the mock drafts I can find. To me if we can't get Berry, Okung or Suh we should trade down in the draft for an extra pick as the players on my wish list will still be around in the 20s. With alot of talent left in the 3rd/4th rds I think the extra pick would be very valuable and the later pick, unless we can get one of those players, will not hurt us.
We can use as many talented players as possible. That to me would be the best case I can see us easily filling all these spots through the draft. OT, WR, KR/PR, NT, OLB, C, S,
I also would like to see Waters traded at the end of the year, for a draft pick. I love Waters but we need to get better and Albert fits in his spot best. I would not want Waters to try changing positions. Maybe a Waters for Center trade.
Biggest needs for next season starting KR/PR, OT, C, TE,OLB. Some other areas need depth added and comp. That said my first pick would definatly be Suh if available, Berry if Suh is gone, and Okung if both Suh and Berry are off the board.
This poll will test if we want BPA or best pick for our needs.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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Where is Mount Cody projected to go?
(Raiders game 1 should be listed here, 409 yds off, we let them off the hook)
(Cowboy's should be listed here - They are who we thought they were)
Skins
Raiders game 2
Next victim?
+1 Good call
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
yeah, I've seen him all over the board, from the top of the first to mid/late 2nd
I like him in the 2nd, not in the 1st.
A lot will be riding on his Senior Bowl and Combine performances, i think
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Can't vote
you need a “trade down even if those 3 are available” option. In a draft this deep we need to stockpile picks raher than pick up another top 5 contract.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KCSatchmo on Nov 18, 2009 1:15 PM CST reply actions
i think it will
be pretty tough to trade back with this year draft being so deep, teams arent gonna wanna let thier picks go. But i do think it could be possible. Best case scenario,we dont win to many more games and draft top 3 or win a few more and draft 7,8,9. But i think at 4,5,6 we could be stuck.
I think we need to keep waters just for the sake hes our second best lineman and we wont find a starter for what we get out of him. As of now i think we need at least 3 new lineman LT,RT,RG if waters dose get moved to center.
I agree
If we are 4th, 5th, or 6th we are stuck. But 7th-10th we may get someone to bite on the top qb available. But we may have to thank Bowe. He may have just landed up pick 3rd, 4th or 5th. I’d rather trade down regardless. I think Suh is best player available. I’d be happy if we went suh and then 2 o-linemen with our 2nd round picks. We can find kr in later rounds. We can grab a free agent lb and free agent safety too. 3 young lineman and some vet lb/safety help sounds mouthwatering to me!
Mr J
KC Chiefs Fan
Mr.J
I was looking at next years FA & saw 2 players we should get.(1) Deuan Landry,saftey,Ravens.(2) Miles Austin,WR,Cowboys.It would take both positions out of our thinking in the early rounds & fill 2 huge holes.
John Soellner
Take the best available player reguardless of position, unless its QB. We could use help everywhere.
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
That being said I would take a honey of a deal if someone came calling.
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
I'm all for trading down...
not just in the first, but in the other rounds too… the more picks, the better.
But, I’m also hoping they trade up IF they need to in order to get “the guy”
If those three are off the board (Berry, Okung, Suh)… the next best player for KC is McClain, who is this year’s Aaron Curry…
He’d be worthy of a top 10 pick, or would be a steal on a trade-down.
the Chiefs MIGHT want one of the other OTs that can be had later in the 1st, like Oher last year…
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
"this year's Aaron Curry"
those are my words, I haven’t heard any “experts” say that
Actually, they compare McClain to urlacher
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Is he inside or outside?
I am assuming inside. I would have to see him play before I made a judgement but an inside lb with our 1st rounder….I dont know about that.
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
yep, he's ILB... but a pretty special player
http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2009/11/5/1117874/best-lb-in-the-draft-could-be-top
Ray Lewis and Brian Urlacher… IF he’s in that category, he’s certainly worth a 1st round pick… read the above article, he’s a heck of a player
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Sounds good to me!!
Dude is big to be running 4.5 4.6….I bet he could streamroll someone. Sounds like he has a great football IQ. I am sold on McClain.
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
I have a sinking feeling
that one of the three will be available, because we may be picking within the top 5 overall.
Very hard to trade down.
And all those top players fill gaping holes on the roster, no real reason to trade down.
by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Nov 18, 2009 1:47 PM CST reply actions
The only way we trade down
is if someone wants a big-name QB, which it seems that every year some team does. That’s our only real hope for a trade-down scenario… that is, assuming a team picking ahead of us doesn’t either a) pick said QB, or b) trade down ahead of the Chiefs. (Buccaneers, Rams, Lions, Chiefs will all be in the same W/L range).
I see what happened in the ’09 draft happening in the ’10 draft as well. Especially if the season is uncapped, agents will be trying to drive the first round draft contracts WAY up.
This isn't a "kum-bye-yah" campfire! THIS IS FOOTBALL!
I think teams will consider trading down to get one of the 3 players mentioned.
Besides QB they are the best players in the draft let alone at their position.
Too bad the Panthers don't have their 1st round pick this year.....
They would’ve definitely traded up to get a QB
by Hail2DaChiefs on Nov 18, 2009 3:45 PM CST up reply actions
Probably not going to get the value we would want from Waters
Not to mention he has played Center very well in the past. My understanding, correct me if I am wrong, but Guards will often move to Center late in their carreers as there is not as much of a demand for the athletic plays like blocking to the second level or pulling. Waters probably has another 3-5 years in him if he moved down to Canter.
I don't think he ever played Center in the pros...
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Does the Pro Bowl count?
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Washington & Oakland!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Nov 18, 2009 5:21 PM CST up reply actions
Played entire NFL Europe season at Center (2000)
And played center for the Chiefs in 2001 I think he was 2nd or 3rd string center in 2000
All-Pro Guard value
Think a 5th round pick…Waters is not at that level, so if you think that KC is better off with a 6th or 7th round pick instead of Waters, trade him…if you can.
Underclassmen besides Berry to consider:
Carlos Dunlap. Sure, KC has Tyson Jackson, but Carlos Dunlap is a whole lot closer to what Jackson’s supposed to be than Jackson will ever be.
Gerald McCoy. Obvious.
Rolando McClain
Any of those three, plus Berry, Okung, and Suh, look like strong considerations to fill the top six picks. There will always be big risers who jump into the mix, so I’m obviously not stating those six should be the top six, but I think they all look like legitimate top-ten guys. I don’t think any QB looks like a top-ten guy this year though (betting someone reaches for Bradford in that range, for lack of other options), so it’s good that KC doesn’t need to draft one early.
Some guys with top-ten talent who have issues to overcome in order to get there include Cody (questionable conditioning and motor), Mays (dropoff in play), Spikes (eye-gouger), Ricky Sapp (consistency and size), and Dez Bryant (NCAA lying).
by burntorangehorn on Nov 18, 2009 2:35 PM CST reply actions
McCoy
I don’t think he’s a 3-4 NT… he’s a 4-3 DT
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Probably
And yes, I’d hate to draft him without giving Jackson or Magee their fair shakes, but it’s possible that McCoy establishes himself as versatile enough to play nose.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 18, 2009 3:57 PM CST up reply actions
6'4" 295lbs
http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2009/11/12/1142634/scouts-notebook-oklahoma-defensive
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
oh, yeah... that makes sense
Cody IS a 3-4 NT… in fact, I wouldn’t draft him to do ANYTHING else but that!
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
I certainly hope that we do note spens our 1st round pick on Suh.
He may be the best player in the draft, but until someone can prove that he can play NT he would only be depth. Depth is nice, but there are to many holes that we need to draft starters. I agree that we need to trade down early and often.
yeah, I agree
Suh has a lot to prove that he’s a NT… I think he’s clearly better suited for a 4-3 DT or 3-4 DE… neither of which are a need for KC this year!
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
Suh is not a 3-4 NT
He has played 4-3 NT which is more of an UT. If we draft him, he’ll go to DE and Dorsey will go to a 4-3 team looking for a DT. I’m not sure he’ll last past the 5th pick and those are nearly impossible to trade down from. I am not sold on Okung and if we get a chance to draft Suh and cannot trade down, we won’t regret selecting him.
I wouldn't rule out Suh
Plenty of guys have played 4-3 NT or even UT and moved to NT in a 3-4. I mentioned this on another thread, but one Pro Bowler who did that in his move from college to the NFL was Casey Hampton. Suh’s a very similar type of player, and his strength and ability to get push on the pocket make him a good possibility at NT.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 19, 2009 7:48 AM CST up reply actions
sweet mock draft
http://footballdraftanalysis.webs.com/mockdraft.htm
1 Berry, S
2 Bruce Campbell, OT (freakishly athletic)
2 Anthony McCoy, TE (2nd best TE in the draft)
In this scenario, ALL of the Centers are still on the board, so the Chiefs could easily get one in the 3rd
I’d be a happy camper if it worked out this way!
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers
How would I be able to say we should "trade down".....
When I dont have the foggiest clue what our draft spot will be?
What if we win 3 of the last 7 and go 5-11?
How about if we never win another and go 2-14?
We could win 7 and go 9-7 (ok, thats a MAJOR strectch, but its mathmatically possible)?
I like keeping an eye on the college games for players as much as the next guy, but Mock drafts when 1/2 a season of football is left are a waste of time. You can look at who you like or dont like, but trying to guess a draft order or even discussing “Trade down” senario’s is an exercise in futility.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
It's pretty obvious where the chips will fall in the top 5 of the draft
and fortunately/unfortunately the Chiefs will be there as will the Rams, Browns, Lions and Buccaneers.
The Patriots, Colts, Bengals, Vikings, Ravens, Packers, Eagles, Falcons, Saints will be in the bottom third.
The middle part is where it gets foggy. The top & bottom is good to go already. So for us at least, I say mock away dear friends, mock away.
by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Nov 19, 2009 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
Wow, really? I don't think it's that obvious at all.
10 teams have 6+ wins
7 more teams are barely above .500 at a record of (5-4)
That’s 17 teams that we can most likely say wont be in the top 5 of the 2010 draft.
That leaves us with 15 teams below .500
(4-5)
Panthers
Dolphins
49ers
Jets
Bears
- Now let’s say we assume that all the 4 and 5 teams continue on at a below agerage performance and NONE of them go on an ugly multi week losing streak. (Im not willing to make that assumption, be we will for arguements sake). We’ll go ahead and take them out of bottom 5 possibility.
That leaves us TEN teams to discuss for the bottom 5 slots:
(3-6)
Titans
Redskins
Seahawks
Bills
*Can you honestly take the Redskins, Bills (under an interm head coach), or the injury prone Seahawks out of the discussion?
(2-7)
Chiefs
Raiders
- Obviously in the discussion
(1-8)
Rams
Buccaneers
Lions
Browns
- Obviously in the discussion
Even if the Titans continue improving wit Young as teh QB and we remove them, we still have 9 possible teams that could end up in the bottom 5.
Discussing Draft order, or trading down in November is a waste of breath.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
I don't see the
Rams
Lions
Browns
winning any more games.
The Bucs I could see putting up a couple more wins as will the Titans, Redskins and Seahawks. The Chiefs and Bills are gonna be fighting it out for the 5 & 6 picks respectively. I feel this is pretty obvious, I see why you disagree but I feel that mock drafts are a valid (though sorely overdiscussed) discussion.
Most of us play fantasy football, this is just an extension of the what if scenarios that all of us rabid Chiefs fans like to play out. In my opinion part of the fun is calling a shot early and seeing if it comes true. As the season progresses we get to see if our “bold” predictions are correct and who is the goat. It’s for fun and oh by the way a lot of us find it interesting and helps us round out our overall football knowledge.
So please, in the future don’t tell us we’re wasting our breath. Just because you’re not gettng anything out of it doesn’t mean the rest of us aren’t.
BTW chill out a bit on your feedback bro, I’m only saying this because I care; there are plenty of decaf brands that taste just like the real thing.
by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Nov 19, 2009 3:34 PM CST up reply actions
You don't see
a victor in the 11/22 game between the Lions and the Browns? Calling your shot on a tie, huh?
I've been kicking this around for more than a few days
Defense
NT – is the only hole on the D-line and one can be picked up in FA, there’s 3 quality NT’s out there next year
DE – a FA and a Pioli/Haley guy brought in through the draft, dorsey shopped opening a hole on the roster, this is an uncapped year, so this is completely possible
DE/OLB – round 4 or later, possibly a FA also brought in to take over for Vrabel
ILB – FA maybe a late round pick on these guys
S – again FA and maybe a late round pick on Safeties, I am sure we’ll bring in a FS
CB – round 2 to 3
Offense
QB – Cassel was brought in, they’re not ready to give up on him and I think Haley likes Croyle as a backup plan
RB – I think we’re stuck with the committee we have one more year, and these guys are definately serviceable, might even actually look good behind a good line.
WR – Bowe tarnished his name, Chambers, Wade, Long, we pick one up here in round 2 or 3
TE – FA and/or late round pick
C – round 2 to 4
G – Waters, Colin Brown are going to be our Starting G’s at the beginning of next year the more I think about it the more I like it.
LT – Albert will hold down this post even if a young LT is brought in, in round 2
RT – O’Cal is the starter here at the beginning of next year even if a young tackle is taken
DE round 1 Suh or another true type 3-4 DE brought in, I like the idea of seymour coming in for a season or 3 to provide the rock we need while this young guy develops, then providing depth later on.
Dorsey shipped out for a 2 and a 3.
LT round 2, a project player, Someone to set the bench behind Albert until he’s ready to take over. I know this sounds stupid, draft a guy in round 2 so he can ride the pine for 4 to 6 weeks but bear with me.
CB round 2 (b), Dorsey pick, I think with the Washington pick Pioli and Haley tipped their hands they want bigger more physical corners, this could be the beginning of the end of Carr and Flowers.
RT round 2 ©, Gonzo pick, again someone to ride the pine and learn while O’Cal holds down the fort. Again bear with me and let me get to the end of the post.
WR round 3, Haley gets his new toy to mold, with Bowe and Chambers starting, this kid will be our #3 or #4.
C round 3(b), Our first Full time starter in the draft, he’ll have his position from day 1.
DE/OLB Round 4, this is where Pioli and Billicheat picked em.
TE round 5, that kid from alabama is still supposed to be here isn’t he?
WR or CB/KR round 5 (b),
ILB round 5 ©
Beginning of season End of Season
DE Seymour/Suh rotation and Magee playing #3 Suh/Magee Seymour Depth
NT Wilfork/Edwards Wilfork/Edwards
DE Jackson/Gilberry Jackson/Gilberry Seymour Depth
OLB Hali/Studebaker Same
ILB Mays/Draft pick Same
ILB FA/Williams Same
OLB FA/Draft Pick Draft Pick/FA
CB Flowers/Washington Flowers/Washington
CB Carr/Rookie Rookie/Carr
FS FA/Paige Same
SS Flowers/FA Same
QB Cassel/Croyle Same
RB our current bunch Same
FB Good Question Same
WR Bowe/Wade Same
WR Chambers/Rookie Rookie/Chambers
WR Long Same
TE FA, Watson or Crumpler/Rookie Same
LT Albert/Rookie Rookie/Smith
LG Waters/Smith Albert/Smith
C Rookie/Smith Same
RG Brown/Ndukwe Same
RT O’Cal/Rookie Rookie/O’Cal
O-Line Again another season of turmoil but hopefully in a good way, Brown is a big boy and could be a road grader at RG, our O-line see’s 2 new starters on day 1 of next year a rookie C and Brown at RG, and as the season progresses, Albert slides to LG and the rookie takes his snaps at LT, same with RT, except O’Cal slides back to play a backup role while the rookie gets his shot. The O-line is shored up and more lanes should be there for our RB’s. Waters gets dealt around the trade deadline when they feel the rookie T’s can handle the load.
WR we stand pretty pat, with a young guy Haley can mold, Darling and Bradley get the axe. With an improved O-Line these guys get more time to let their deeper routes develop.
TE Watson or Crumpler are brought in along with a rookie, who in our current pool will be kept, who cares.
RB our current group sticks around and their lives should pick up with a revitalized O-Line.
QB Cassel and Croyle hold their posts, with an improved line, it’s sink or swim here, they should have more time to throw from day one.
D-Line – Yeah Dorsey gets dealt in my scenerio, but Seymour is brought in to start the season at DE, Wilfork or another Vet NT, and Jackson Starting the year out, this line will be stronger than this year, with Suh taking his snaps and Magee and Gilberry providing depth, we should have a very solid line, and Seymour become depth towards the mid to end of the season. No Drop off and our depth improves.
OLB’s Vrabel is out unless we can resign him, I don’t think studebaker is our answer so A vet and a rookie is brought in this year. Studebaker slides over to play behind Hali, improvement, maybe, maybe not.
ILB’s, Same group with a rookie and a FA coming to help further solidify this group.
CB’s I think we’re going to go more physical on the corners in the drafts to come, and Flower and Carr will slowly be phased out.
S’s here I think we’ll bring in more FA’s than young guys, but I still this we improve here next year………can it get worse?
That’s a lot of moves, but that’s what we expect out of Pioli isn’t it? Bring in starters and depth, I could see even more moves than that out of this front office. But I already went far enough out there, probably too far.
by mcclanahanman on Nov 18, 2009 8:42 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Well thought out
a few nitpicks
I was going to say Carr is big enough 6’ 207 maybe not:)
Seymour and Wilfork/or someone like him? That would be more than just keeping Dorsey and drafting Suh in $ i think. Plus you left OUR 2nd out of your picks.
I mostly agree, Nice write up.
and some Posts aren’t that long! but I like to read Rec
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Washington & Oakland!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Nov 18, 2009 8:59 PM CST up reply actions
Well
think about it, if you just take Suh and trade Dorsey your production is going to fall of at the DE position, Suh will be a Rookie, just like dorsey was last year and Jackson is this year. First year for a rookie D-lineman isn’t pretty.
Sign Seymour to solidify that position, we don’t need a 16 game drop off at DE.
Sign Wilfork, or Hampton or Ferguson to solidify that NT position, we can take a NT next year in the draft to learn behind one of those guys.
With a scenerio like that you have drafted for the future, and you have guys in place right now that will hold that stability for you that got traded away in Dorsey. You have made picks to solidify both of your lines and you know you have capable backups in case anyone goes down.
Lines shored up and depth addressed along them, now you’re thin at skilled positions, but there is serviceable talent there and we make a 6-10 to a 9-7 run, depending on our luck.
There’s only so much that can be done in one year.
by mcclanahanman on Nov 19, 2009 12:33 AM CST up reply actions
Really, ever hear of Javon Kearse?
Suh will be a rookie Suh, which may actually be better than the best Dorsey.
Dorsey to the Bucs
I think we trade Dorsey to Tampa for their 2nd and 3rd picks this year. FA Signings: LT Marcus McNeill, WR Steve Breaston and LB Kirk Morrison. We draft:
R1 #4 FS Eric Berry-Tennessee
R2 #33 DT Terrence Cody-Alabama
R2 #36 OT Jason Fox-Miami
R2 #53 C Stefen Wisniewski-Penn State
R3 #65 LB Eric Norwood-S. Carolina
R3 #68 G Mike Johnson-Alabama
R4 #100 RB Chris Brown-Oklahoma
R5 #132 TE Aaron Hernandez-Florida
R5 #140 SS Barry Church-Toledo
R5 #143 KR Brandon Banks-KSU
I cant even keep track of how the draft is set up anymore
didnt they change the scheduling of it? I could be way off base but I think it is three days long in 2010.
1st round, then 2nd-3rd, then 4th-7th.
Can anybody who knows confirm or correct that?
A man who says he can, and a man who says he can't are both right. Which one are you?
I think you are right
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Washington & Oakland!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Nov 19, 2009 4:55 PM CST up reply actions
McNeill
If there’s no negotiation of a new CBA, McNeill will be a restricted free agent, so he’d cost KC major draft picks even if the did sign him.
Of course, I think it’s more likely the owners would initiate a lockout rather than allow an uncapped season, so it could be moot.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 19, 2009 7:52 AM CST up reply actions
Easier to talk draft than Free Agency
With this labor agreement dilemma, I feel comfortable talking draft not free agency. You can throw big names out there for free agency but they rarely make it to fa. I do believe Wilfork goes to fa but Pats got rid of Seymour and that makes me wonder if they are looking to re-sign him, especially in an uncapped season (possibly).
And when you know your team is not doing well (sucks?) you can talk top 10 picks in the draft. I love it! And don’t tell me our gm Don Pioli is not checking out players for our top 5 pick! That’s why many of us our chatting. We like to give our opinions. wether it be on play-calling, players, coaching, the draft, etc.
Mr J
KC Chiefs Fan
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