Haley vs the Camera - Is He Getting More Than a Typical Coaches Share of the Time?
by Bewsaf on Nov 18, 2009 9:54 AM CST
39 comments
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Before coming to the Kansas City Chiefs, Todd Haley was known as an intense and sometimes hot headed coach that got the most out of the players through demanding production. Since arriving in Kansas City there has been little to dispel this notion.
But is Todd Haley getting a fair shake? Many coaches in the NFL are intense individuals. Many coaches in the NFL cuss at players in the attempt to motivate them. In fact, the fans of Kansas City had just such a coach in Gunther Cunningham. Gunther was a well known and well liked defensive coordinator for the Kansas City Chiefs, twice. He was known for being a fiery, foul mouthed, intense coach that was rarely maligned for his tactics in the media.
In the game against the Raiders it appeared to me that Haley might not be getting a fair shake. The more I watched the game the more it seemed like he was receiving more camera shots than Cable. It seemed that of those camera shots, he was focused on longer. Was Haley getting a fair shake? Was the media trying to make this a bigger deal than it really is by trying to make Todd and his fiery temperament the story?
I went back to the tape and counted how many times the broadcast went to Haley and how many times they shot Cable in the first half. I counted how many times the camera went to each coach after a good event, bad event, critical situation, and a neutral event in the first half. Guess what...Haley was not only shot almost twice as much as Cable in the first half but those shots on average were 2 to 3 times longer.
Here is the stats and observations from reviewing the tape for the first half only.
Haley vs the Camera |
| Coach | Bad Event | Good Event | Neutral Event |
Critical | Total |
| Haley | 11 | 3 | 11 | 7 | 31 |
| Cable | 3 | 6 | 5 | 3 | 17 |
|
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This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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Not in Mississippi
we do not get to see any games…lol
Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!
I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.
by Lanier63 on Nov 18, 2009 10:00 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
You'd be on to something
if you could demonstrate this this had nothing to do with the how easily each coach could be seen on camera.
Most cameras are on the press box side of the stadium – the same side as the home team, and the primary perspective of the home viewer. Those cameras can only see the back of the home team coach. That’s why Cable was seen only from sideline or end zone cameras – those were the only ones that can see his face.
Further, because there are fewer of these sideline and end zone cameras, they can’t be used for reaction shots to the same extent as the main cameras; they’re needed for game action.
If you can come up with data showing that this consistently occurs to the same extent when Haley is the home team coach, then you’ll have proved something. But the only thing you’ll be proving is that a HC who is demonstrative on the sideleines makes better “copy” than a coach who isn’t. That’s hardly a news flash.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
by RDOGuy on Nov 18, 2009 10:21 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
So you are saying that all visiting coaches
in every game have dedicated stadium cameras on them and receive more camera time, twice as much, than the home coach. I can’t give an educated answer to that, but I doubt that it is true. My guess is that all coaches, in general, get just what Cable got. Regardless, that is not the argument I present.
The last part of your response is exactly what I think I am showing. The media made a conscious effort before the game to film Haley more often and particularly during bad situations. Is that abnormal that the media would do such a thing, defiantly not. Is it news to some unsuspecting fan that just wants to watch the game and not a coach interacting with a player, yes. Does the amount of negative shots that the camera has on one coach over another affect a viewers beliefs about that coach regardless of whether both coaches act similarly or not in reality…yes it does.
Bewsaf
by Bewsaf on Nov 18, 2009 10:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
::: sigh :::
No, Bewsaf. I am not saying that visiting coaches always get twice as much camera time as the home coaches. I am saying that there are physical factors that enter into the equation – that it’s not all about Todd Haley.
While planning how he was going to shoot the Oakland game, did the TV director think there might be situations where they could get a “sexy” shot of Haley throwing a fit on the sidelines, and plan for it? Of course he did. But that’s because Haley DOES throw those fits.
Of course I agree with you that what the viewers see affects their perceptions of the game. But it is only logical that they’ll get fewer chances to see Todd Haley’s reactions on the sidelines when there are fewer cameras to record them.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
by RDOGuy on Nov 18, 2009 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I know
my first part of my response was an over-exaggeration of what you said…I did it for affect. ;-)
I agree, Haley ‘is’ animated and the t.v. guys wanted to get all they could.
I for one am tired of it. O.k., give me a couple of those shots…but don’t give me 31 camera shots of Haley in a half just so you can say “gotcha”.
It would be logical, you are right, that they would have fewer shots of him if there are fewer cameras. But I would like to to see fewer shots even when Haley is in an away game.
Bewsaf
by Bewsaf on Nov 18, 2009 11:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't know how I'd vote...
But I do think your breakdown is very interesting, as well as the analysis. It’s been pointed out somewhere else, but Haley could help himself out a lot by covering his mouth with the play calling sheet. Of course that kind of rational thought doesn’t always flow in those angry moments when the shouting/swearing typically happens.
by Yaggleberry Finn on Nov 18, 2009 10:21 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Interesting
but Haley is getting more camera shots on him because he is more interesting and animated on the sidelines. Period. Since he freaks out and yells a lot the guy in the booth calling the shots is going to go to him more often.
Cable didn’t get as many shots because he wasn’t screaming on the sidelines as much. Haley is more interesting TV.
Both coaches probably have a camera on them the entire game so they can quickly cut to them. The more animated coach will win.
Please help send my girlfriend to Broadway! Visit http://magonbroadway.blogspot.com/
by Patrick Allen on Nov 18, 2009 11:01 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I agree
So the question might be…how many Chiefs fans want this ‘extra’ coverage to continue? My guess is that even the ones that don’t like Haley are sick of seeing it. I doubt there would be many fans that would vote…give me more of those negative shots.
So why does the media do it if the fans don’t want it? How many fans have turned off the tv because along with the frustration of losing they have to watch an excessive about of bad camera shots on Haley?
I guess my post is trying to make the fan realize what is going on, which is really no surprise as you stated, and to say to the media…stop it. We don’t want to see an excessive amount of that crap.
Bewsaf
by Bewsaf on Nov 18, 2009 11:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If I may say so, Bewsaf...
you seem to be pretty concerned about whether Haley gets a “fair shake.” OK… I understand that. But as far as the TV guys are concerned, fairness has nothing to do with it. This isn’t news. This is sports. Entertainment.
Look at it from their perspective. They were going to be broadcasting a game between two of the worst teams in the league. There was no reason to expect there would be much quality football on the field, was there? Yet in their mind, they still have an obligation to make it a good TV show. That’s their job. What choice did they have but to focus on sideline drama?
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
by RDOGuy on Nov 18, 2009 11:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
first I was disgusted at seeing all the negative shots. It made me want to turn the t.v. off and go to the radio…i wanted to see a football game. Then after that emotion of disgust, I wondered if he should be getting a fair shake. And yea, I think he should.
I know for the media it is all about keeping the audience. Besides the fair/objective issue…which an NFL broadcast should be (IMO)…I think it was done in such an overboard way that it made people (like me) NOT want to watch. So I think they made a mistake if they wanted to keep an audience.
It is hard to think they did not have many choices or directions to go…and they went with the negative one about Haley.
Its kinda like politics…voters don’t like you when you get to negative. And that is what I think happened. And eventually they will lose viewers.
Bewsaf
by Bewsaf on Nov 18, 2009 11:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Except... that they won't lose viewers
Oh, sure… there will be people like you who turn the TV off in disgust. But those will only be those with a vested interest in the game – that is, fans of one team or the other.
But the TV guys still win. By focusing on whatever drama they perceive as taking place, they’ll do a better job of holding on to disinterested viewers – those who don’t care too much about either team. They could care less about objectivity. That will more than make up for people like you who are concerned about it.
Anyway… why should they care? It’s not like the game can be seen on a competing network where the presentation might be more objective. Whether you like it or not, the TV guys have the only show in town. They’re holding all the cards.
Understand, Bewsaf… I’m not saying you don’t have a point. Maybe you do. But until you’ve done this analysis on a game-by-game basis for home and away games – as well as a bunch of other teams to the same degree – you haven’t yet presented enough evidence to prove one. But even if you do, you’re tilting at windmills.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
by RDOGuy on Nov 18, 2009 12:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You might be right with your analysis of the TV guys
For what I am trying to accomplish…I don’t think I need proof beyond a reasonable doubt to sway readers. I only need enough proof for reasonable suspicion. Then the reader can add any knowledge they might have and form an opinion And I think I can accomplished that with just one game. Besides, doing all those games to get proof beyond a reasonable doubt…not good. :)
Bewsaf
by Bewsaf on Nov 18, 2009 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I see...
So never mind about the facts… you’ve already made up your mind? OK.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
by RDOGuy on Nov 18, 2009 1:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Whaaa..
Proof for reasonable suspicion is the standard in every civil case. Proof beyond a reason doubt is only required in a criminal case.
Therefore, since our societal standards accept proof of reasonable suspicion as establishing sufficient evidence…I only need to satisfy proof for reasonable suspicion. Even though you might think I have to have proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
Cheers
Bewsaf
by Bewsaf on Nov 18, 2009 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hold on a second there...
you’re the guy who started this business of giving Haley a “fair shake” and claiming the TV coverage isn’t objective. You’re saying that they should adhere to standards of objectivity… but it’s OK if you don’t?
Sorry, my friend… but I have to call BS on that.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
by RDOGuy on Nov 18, 2009 1:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry RDOGuy
I have gone about as long as I can.
Standards of objectivity do not seem to be the same topic as reasonable suspicion. So I don’t think I am being a hypocrite for saying they should be objective while at the same time saying I need proof for reasonable doubt.
Regardless, I am out. Good debater.
Would that mean you’re a Master Bater? :)
Bewsaf
by Bewsaf on Nov 18, 2009 2:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They reason they show him more is there is something to see.
If you run around screaming at you QB, telling your assistant coaches to F-off and swearing at everyone whenever there is a break in the action they will show you. If there is nothing to see they won’t show him.
by saskwatch on Nov 18, 2009 11:22 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Like I said in my post above
Haley is not the only one that cusses his players out. The thing is that we don’t know if Cable did because they never panned to him during the first half, not once, after a dropped ball or errant pass.
Bewsaf
by Bewsaf on Nov 18, 2009 11:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bewsaf...
Props for this post and the statistics! :]
by worc on Nov 18, 2009 11:59 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Compare a different coach.....
Cable is no comparison. Do you think they want to chase off the women viewers by showing that much of the Cable guy?
Predictions for 2009:
The Chiefs will regret cutting LJ
Bowe's numbers regress due to lack of decent QB play.
The D gets better in the second half but still is plagued by big plays
Cassel looks more like the guy Pioli almost cut in the '08 preseason instead of the franchise QB he hoped he would be when he traded him for
Chiefs 3-13
by bonesjackson on Nov 18, 2009 12:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Bad choice by the producer
He had his camera on the wrong guy. You never know when Tom Cable is going to just up and decide to punch someone, and it could be anybody… player, coach, fan, cheerleader…
by Soria's Unibrow on Nov 18, 2009 1:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Who cares?
I find it entertaining to watch Haley chewing players out when they make stupid mistakes. The producers coordinating the cameras probably find it entertaining too, so they’re targeting Haley more than the other coaches.
The NFL has done the same thing with fiery coaches for a LONG time now. Think of how much air time guys like Cowher, Gruden and Parcells have got. Why focus on the Herm Edwards type when the other guy is stamping his foot, screaming obscenities and just generally looking pissed off? It’s 10 times more entertaining.
It's years like this that I wish I was a bear. Hibernation would make it so much easier.
by Red N Gold Beast on Nov 18, 2009 1:56 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I guess
that is why they do it…because people like it.
Bewsaf
by Bewsaf on Nov 18, 2009 1:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's the bottom line
Whether we like it or not.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
by RDOGuy on Nov 18, 2009 2:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Without a doubt.
Unfortunately too many fans and media members are calling Haley out because of all the coverage. The argument generally goes “you can’t treat grown men like that.”. Some even take it a step further and argue that he’s probably always screaming at them, and isn’t doing enough to actually coach the guys.
I don’t think that’s the case though. I’ve seen enough cut scenes, videos on NFL.com, and press conferences to know that while Haley does chew guys out, he also takes the time to coach them. The OAK game even cut to a scene after Haley was F-bombing Bowe, where Haley was sitting next to Bowe on the bench explaining something to him, and he looked reasonably in control. So all the coverage could be looked at as unfair, but I think as long as they balance it with momentas where Haley is actually doing his job, I’m good with all the footage of side line eruptions. If and when they refuse to show him being the mentor and leader he’s supposed to be, I’ll have a problem with it.
It's years like this that I wish I was a bear. Hibernation would make it so much easier.
by Red N Gold Beast on Nov 18, 2009 2:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would love to watch
Herm Edwards’ blank, apparently thoughtless, stare on the sidelines for pure entertainment value. IF HE WASN’T MY TEAM’S COACH!!!!
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
by kabrink on Nov 19, 2009 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Glad you put this together, man.
I had been wondering the same thing. I chalk it up to sensationalism.
I've been rapping for about seveteen years okay? I don't write my stuff anymore I just kick it from my head you know what I'm sayin? I can do that. No disrespect but that's how I am.
by soybon on Nov 18, 2009 2:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
BTW.... rec'd
This makes for an interesting conversation.
It's years like this that I wish I was a bear. Hibernation would make it so much easier.
by Red N Gold Beast on Nov 18, 2009 2:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
yah for real ...there's no one who posts the same angle on things that you do.
This is another really really cool post. I really enjoyed. I don’t care either way, but I did really enjoy it.
by krayfish on Nov 18, 2009 3:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Nice Post Bewsaf Rec
I understand the frustration with Human Nature.
TV loves Pro Wrestling and Soap Operas. Nuff said
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Washington & Oakland!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Nov 18, 2009 6:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I gotta believe he is
There’s no way the camera guys are so damn good that they get a least one discernible f-bomb every week. They’re looking for it.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
by Buck'O on Nov 18, 2009 10:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I hope Haley saw that a double freakin Eagle will cost a quarter Million dollars
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Washington & Oakland!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Nov 18, 2009 10:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would ratther
Have a coach that cusses out an assistant on camera during a game than one who breaks their jaw in private. But that’s just me.
As far as I’m concerned, the place where Haley is being treated unfairly is not enough mention or camera shots of when he congratulates for good play and gives compliments to players, which I believe happens nearly as much as the cussing out. As play improves the positive reactions will increase. Haley wears his emotions on his sleeve for all to see.
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
10/28--The Koolaid buzz is beginning to wear off. Maybe drop this back to my original thoughts on the year. Chiefs go 6-10 (and that my be optimistic!). LJ gets a restraining order to stay 1400 yards away from the Chiefs. I'll let the rest stand for now. 11/18 Oh My! Dbowe gets a restraining order to stay 1200 yards away from the Chiefs. Argh! Can we go 5-11? Can the defense make #20?
by Zodeman on Nov 19, 2009 5:37 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Awesome post
Thank you Zodeman. I quite agree and think you are right on point.
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
by kabrink on Nov 19, 2009 2:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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