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Around SBN: The End Of Sabanball: Details, Barbarians, And Precision

Breaking Down the Chiefs and Raiders Tape - O-Line


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From the FanPosts   -Joel

The Kansas City Chiefs recorded their second win of the season against the Oakland Raiders last Sunday.  For the second week in a row the Chiefs returned the same five starters and continued to build some continuity on the offensive line.

Many fans on AP have wanted Alleman to get some playing time at right guard to see if he could be the answer for the Chiefs.  Against the Raiders, Alleman was not the answer.  He graded out the lowest of the five offensive lineman and demonstrated a difficulty in handling defenders during passing plays.  Even in the area in which he is perceived to have a strength, run blocking, Alleman graded out low.  He had difficulty the whole game keeping his man engaged.

Observations after reviewing the film:

  1. The Chiefs used the tight end as a blocker during passing downs more often than last game. 
  2. Although Pope did not dominate his man at the point of attack he did make sure his man did not make the tackle.  An improvement over previous games.
  3. Richard Seymour is a load.  Albert had trouble blocking him during runs and Waters had trouble a few times blocking him on the pass.
  4. Alleman has trouble with pass blocking.  The 3 times he was driven happened during passing plays.
  5. Alleman fires off the ball hard but missed his man frequently.
  6. Waters had a good game getting to the second level and making a block.  This is one of the hardest blocks for a lineman, IMO.
  7. Alleman had trouble with stunts.  Again, Waters was the best at having his head on a swivel and passing defenders off and picking up defenders looping into his area.
  8. The Chiefs pulled their lineman a lot more this game.  For the most part, all the lineman did a good job when pulling.
  9. The line appears to still need improvement but also appears to be less of a problem then in previous weeks.
  10. Remember, blitz pick-ups have been placed in the PB Double area. 

Here are the grades from first three quarters against the Oakland Raiders :

Star-divide

 

                               Oakland Raiders


PLAYER RB SOLO RB DOUBLE SECOND LEVEL PB SOLO PB DOUBLE Driven
Albert 70% 100% 50% 95% 100% 1
Waters 92% 100% 80% 93% 100% 1
Niswanger 75% 100% 50% 93% 90% 1
Alleman 62% 100% 83% 70% 77% 3
O'Callaghan 92% 100% 67% 88% 100% --
Pope 80% 100% 100% 100% 83% 1
Cottam 50% -- -- 1 for 1 -- --

 

 

TOP GRADE
TOP GRADE
Brian_waters_medium

pics

source

Ryan_ocallaghan_medium

 

 

Here's how it works:

  • Each offensive lineman was given a "+" for doing their job or a "-" for failing to do their job on each play.
  • These pluses and minuses were grouped into the type of block they were asked to do, e.g., a run block solo (RB Solo), a run block double team (RB Double), or a pass block solo (PB Solo), etc.
  • A "D", for "driven", was assigned every time a player was manhandled during a pass or run play.
  • The quality of the lineman's play is represented as a percentage above.  The higher the percentage the better the lineman did.
  • I tried to be very strict...I think Haley would want it that way.
  • One important note, some plays were unclear as to who exactly did not do their job, e.g., a defensive tackle going unblocked at the line of scrimmage.  Was it the centers fault?  The guards fault?  In these cases it was clear that a mistake was made and the player that looked to be most at fault was assigned the blame.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

Comment 51 comments  |  8 recs  | 

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I'm torn

On one hand I’d like them to develope some consistancy, on the other, I’d really like them to give Ndukwe a shot at RG.

Feeling "The Love" and "Drinking the Kool AId"

by KCporkchop on Nov 17, 2009 9:53 AM CST reply actions  

We might be seeing why Goff was getting the starts

and why Ndukwe was said to be moving to RG to get some reps.

Bewsaf

by Bewsaf on Nov 17, 2009 10:08 AM CST up reply actions  

RG MUST be addressed this off-season

and LG eventually……both tackles seem to be doing ok

by reedeasy on Nov 17, 2009 10:11 AM CST up reply actions  

I think Albert is doing a good job

He does not seem to be a pro-bowl type at LT…but he is not getting schooled either. I think he is a keeper regardless of where the Chiefs decide they want him to play in the future.

Bewsaf

by Bewsaf on Nov 17, 2009 10:24 AM CST up reply actions  

he's also playing at a much lower weight

and is being asked to adjust to a completely different scheme, at a position that isn’t his natural one…..his playing will progress as his career unfolds, and as he gets used to Haley’s scheme

by reedeasy on Nov 17, 2009 10:32 AM CST up reply actions  

+1

and IMO that Waters when he can is helping Niswanger.

One thing, maybe it was 4th Quarter but )’Callaghan did get driven of and gave up a sack. But, My goodness he is better than Sackintosh.

We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Washington & Oakland!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram

by Steve_Chiefs on Nov 17, 2009 5:20 PM CST up reply actions  

+1

Mills says there are 39000 possibilities.
NDuckwe came in the trade as the dominate Guard.
Let’s put him there and Alleman will be a fine Filler.

We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Washington & Oakland!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram

by Steve_Chiefs on Nov 17, 2009 5:12 PM CST up reply actions  

I look forward to these posts each week. Nice to read some good evaluation of the team and not just someones opinion on why the coach or player should of done this or that. Thanks!

by DARIN on Nov 17, 2009 10:26 AM CST reply actions   2 recs

Thanks

I try and keep this kind of post as matter-of-fact as I can.

Bewsaf

by Bewsaf on Nov 17, 2009 10:33 AM CST up reply actions  

Link for the tape

If you haven’t seen the highlight reel, here it is.

Blame my wife!
Waiting until August 2010

by sir eccles on Nov 17, 2009 10:32 AM CST reply actions  

ECCLES! You did it!

That’s the greatest clip ever for the 09 season. The only thing that could have made that any better is if Selma Hyack was on my lap serving me beer while I watched it.

That shows the good the bad and the ugly. It’s great. How can you not love the Benny HIll theme music to our keystonc Chiefs? that’s sweet.

See there were positives that came out of Sunday.

thanks eccles! I needed a smile.

by krayfish on Nov 17, 2009 10:48 AM CST up reply actions  

It looks like we found an answer for our RT

Picking up O’Callaghan maybe the most under appreciated move Pioli made.

Check out my blog on software development:
http://www.turnleafdesign.com/

by Scaryclouds on Nov 17, 2009 10:35 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

Have to agree

I know these are just fans grading the line, but I think this could end up helping us have a solid line next year. One less ‘need’ on the line, although that won’t stop Pioli from trying to improve us if he can

by Boots 58 on Nov 17, 2009 10:57 AM CST up reply actions  

You might be right

Right Tackle does not seem to be a ‘fire alarm’ position any longer.

Bewsaf

by Bewsaf on Nov 17, 2009 10:38 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

Seems far from it

This is the second week in a row of O’Callaghan sharing top honors with Waters. I’d imagine O’Callaghan would only get better as he gets more time to gel Witt the team and line. At the bare minimum it means we don’t have to worry about getting a RT next draft.

Check out my blog on software development:
http://www.turnleafdesign.com/

by Scaryclouds on Nov 17, 2009 10:52 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Rec'd as always Bewsaf

I really wanted Alleman to be the man at RG, but it’s looking more and more like that won’t be the case. I don’t know if he’s still developing or not, but from what you wrote here it sounds like he has some natural ability/desire but needs work on the mental aspect of it. Let’s hope he improves with some coaching. I’d also like to see them give Ndukwe a shot at RG since that was his best position on the Dolphins if I’m remembering correctly.

Keep on going O’Callghan! And good job Leonard Pope. I always heard that he was more of a receiving TE but we’ve been using him more as a blocker. Makes sense to me sense he’s so huge. If we can keep coaching him up he’ll be a good blocker at TE and a big red zone target for Cassel, too. If nothing else he’s already an upgrade over Sean Ryan and his matador “blocking.” Ole!

by Soria's Unibrow on Nov 17, 2009 11:33 AM CST reply actions  

Alleman

don’t give up on him yet… he’s still playing better than Jack Goff.
Ndukwe should get his shot at some point… or Colin Brown next year… either way, I feel better about the right side of the line, even before the draft!

I do like Pope better than Ryan… Ryan should be cut

* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers

by stagdsp on Nov 17, 2009 11:35 AM CST up reply actions  

It looked like Alleman fires off the ball faster than anyone

but he seemed to miss to many blocks or the defender would get off his block and make the tackle. He even missed two cut blocks at one point.

If I had to grade Pope for style points (like him looking good run blocking) he would not make the grade. But he got the job done last Sunday…so congrats to him.

bty-ty

Bewsaf

by Bewsaf on Nov 17, 2009 11:45 AM CST up reply actions  

as long as they get in the way of the defender, at least for a couple seconds...

I’m happy.

* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers

by stagdsp on Nov 17, 2009 12:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Does anyone else think...

Dorsey will be traded, and we will sign Richard Seymour to a two or three year deal at the end of the season?

by Tomahawk_Chop on Nov 17, 2009 11:46 AM CST reply actions  

It's Possible

I still think Dorsey is improving.

by Ryan in Nixa on Nov 17, 2009 11:49 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree

I just don’t think Pioli believes Dorsey fits the scheme

by Tomahawk_Chop on Nov 17, 2009 12:05 PM CST up reply actions  

he now fits

he’s playing well, doing his job

I don’t see him being traded.

He’s got a big contract, and is very young… and he’s really working to make it as a DE.

I think they sit tight at the DE position this year. Dorsey, Jackson, Magee, Gillberry… I think they’re set for a while.

Obviously they will be addressing NT and OL this offseason.

I think DE, WR and QB are the positions this team is “set” at… they need to focus elsewhere… like SAFETY

* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers

by stagdsp on Nov 17, 2009 12:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah but next year is uncapped

Dorsey can be unloaded for 2 or 3 picks in the upcoming draft and a replacement can be drafted in the first, and bring in 2 starters. Lets say St. Louis, Cleveland and Tampa, Detroit and Oakland are picking ahead of us.

Smith was taken last draft for St. Louie, Long the year before that, Carriker the year before that, Bulger went down this season and Boller replaced him. QB this year for St. Louie.

Cleveland Brady Quinn and Derek Anderson aren’t panning out, Left side of the OL seems set, the right side can be addressed later, the Defense Played well enough last night, QB in round 1.

Detroit just drafted Stafford, Okung

Tampa ahead of us, Suh or possibly Berry would be their target by my calculations.

If Oakland is picking ahead of us Taylor Mays or a QB.

Now we can move up with Tampa or Cleveland, or Trade Dorsey to tampa for a 2 and a 3, shifting their priorities in the draft, we have Suh and/or Berry sitting there, but we just made a hole on the D-Line unless seymour is signed and he’s getting up there anyway. KC takes Suh with 2 extra high picks in the draft.

I think Dorsey is gone after this season, because he is working out so well, because it is an uncapped year. He’s showing he’s going to live up to his potential and how can we pass on 2 starters on a team this deprived of talent even if we take a step back at his position and go through growing pains with a rookie DE. OL could be addressed with those picks, WR, CB, S.

With the pick of Washington, is this Haley and Pioli tipping their hands? Flowers and Carr could both see some shopping, it looks like Haley wants a bigger, more physical CB to play more bump and run, or something.

I can even see Bowe being shopped because of his drops.

This is an uncapped year and Haley wants his guys. When he gets his guys in there we’ll be rolling, isn’t that what he said?

There could be a fire sale coming and more FA’s being brought in and our favorite guys rolling out.

by mcclanahanman on Nov 17, 2009 1:13 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

Well thought out..

and you make many good points. I’m not sure I agree 100%, but your arguement to trade Dorsey would give the Chiefs the 6th, 36th (TB), 38th, 48-55ish (ATL), 68th (TB), 70th, 102nd, 134th, 140ish (CAR), and 145ish (MIA).

That would be 10 picks in the top 150, and we currently have 8. However, at least one would be used as Dorsey’s replacement. So the net change is actually one additional top 150 pick. You could also look at this move as, swapping our 2010 1st round pick for (6th = 1600 trade value points) Tampa Bay’s 2nd and 3rd round picks 36th and 68th (540+250=790), and the difference (potential, scheme fit, ect…) between Suh and Dorsey.

I’m not sure what Pioli has in mind, but I do trust his decision when it comes to DL talent evaluation.

Again, excellent write up, rec’d.

by chrisclark_dfw on Nov 17, 2009 2:31 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Rec But don't understand this part

Dorsey for 2 and 3.
We still have our 1st and grab Suh.

Bq.could also look at this move as, swapping our 2010 1st round pick for (6th = 1600 trade value points) Tampa Bay’s 2nd and 3rd round picks 36th and 68th (540+250=790),

We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Washington & Oakland!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram

by Steve_Chiefs on Nov 17, 2009 5:35 PM CST up reply actions  

I was trying to say...

If Dorsey is doing an acceptable/good job at the RDE position, which I feel he is. Then RDE isn’t a position of need and the Chiefs have 8 top 150 picks including the 6th overall, which should be a day one starter at a position of need (S, OT, ILB, WR ect…) or a valuable draft slot to trade out of and collect additional picks.

If Dorsey is traded with the intent to select Suh with the 6th pick. Suh will be playing a position (RDE) that we already had a solid starter. Therefore, although Suh might be an upgrade over Dorsey at the RDE position, we are still using the 2010 6th selection on a position that is not a position of need, if you feel Dorsey is doing well.

So essentially we are trading are 2010 6th overall pick to TB for their 2nd and 3rd round picks plus the difference between Suh and Dorsey.

by chrisclark_dfw on Nov 17, 2009 9:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Okay

BUT damn I’m Stubborn as a mule

Dorsey teamed with Suh > potential picks

The fascination with a 3-4 when you have the Possibility of putting a Great 4-3 together with one pick alludes me.

We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Washington & Oakland!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram

by Steve_Chiefs on Nov 17, 2009 10:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Don't disagree there....

just wasn’t considering both Dorsey and Suh on the team at the same time. Was looking at it as one or the other. Some around here think Suh could play NT….Jackson Suh Dorsey???

But like I said before, that is one area Pioli seems to have made his best picks…D Line, so whatever they decide I’ll be ok with.

by chrisclark_dfw on Nov 17, 2009 11:32 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't know to me a lot of that makes sense

More so than other scenerios, I’d like to see a C and 2 tackles taken in rounds 2 and 3, suh in round 1, and a WR and a CB taken in round 2 and 3. Then take that DE/OLB, ILB, TE, S in round 4 and 5.

Sign Wilfork, or hampton and Ferguson as a backup, Seymour, Watson or Crumpler, and one of those High profile S’s out there and a few LB’s.

Solidify a lot of the team for 2 seasons while Haley and Pioli’s draft picks get their feet wet.

by mcclanahanman on Nov 18, 2009 1:06 AM CST up reply actions  

Good Analysis Rec

Bellicheck will deal a player for the right price. I think Pioli will too.
My hope is getting Wilfork. yeah My own drum to pound :)
Then we could choose either Berry or a Tackle “if we need to” or go for
McClain or a WR in the 1st.

We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them. Washington & Oakland!
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram

by Steve_Chiefs on Nov 17, 2009 5:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Seriously

If that happens we will become the KC Patriots. But I feel the likelihood of this is the same as us also getting Wilfork in the offseason. Just not going to happen.

by readANDgold58 on Nov 17, 2009 12:00 PM CST up reply actions  

I say lay off Alleman...

It’s difficult for the first time to play a football game where you’re NOT expecting LJ to run straight into your back. If anything, it was getting him confused waiting for the abuse that never came to his back. Things are looking up for him starting the next game. :]

by worc on Nov 17, 2009 11:48 AM CST reply actions  

Nice post...Thanks

Just wondering if you have a season total report. I was curious to see how the trends over time look…

by radyman on Nov 17, 2009 11:56 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

I only started grading the lineman 3 or 4 weeks ago

so I think I only have 4 or 5 games.

I might get a post out sometime, or include it with next weeks post, the grades over the past 3 or 4 weeks so people can see how things look over time.

Bewsaf

by Bewsaf on Nov 17, 2009 12:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Good post......

I’m glad we get to see what’s really going on with the OLine. I hope we use that first pick in the 2nd round to get the best center on the board.

by Hail2DaChiefs on Nov 17, 2009 12:02 PM CST reply actions  

Rudy's tough,

but he’s not very good…..we can get someone better IMO

by reedeasy on Nov 17, 2009 12:07 PM CST reply actions  

I thought he played pretty well

against Oakland. Would like to see more consistency out him. I did notice Alleman getting beat quite a bit against Oakland so it doesn’t surprise me that he graded the lowest. Hopefully Ndukwe gets a chance at RG — it can’t hurt.

Alleman really did not give us much improvement at RG on Sunday. What hurts the most is Albert continuing to be graded low.

by Nick Britt on Nov 17, 2009 12:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Rudy did better this game

but he did not have a 3-4 nose over him. I think he is more of a guard.

I think you are right…we will get someone better before next year starts.

Bewsaf

by Bewsaf on Nov 17, 2009 1:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Okay just two things really quick

I don’t feel dorsey will be with us next year..DEPENDING on other acquisitions we make. If we can’t replace him then no, he stays.

Second, what’s the AP concensus on Alleman? Is his a talent or a lack of experience issue? Is he salvageable if for nothing else a strong 2nd team sub?

by krayfish on Nov 17, 2009 12:24 PM CST reply actions  

I think he's at least SOLID depth

He could continue to get better and be a starter, but he’s at least solid C and G depth.

Ndukwe may be a better long term starter at RG.

* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers

by stagdsp on Nov 17, 2009 12:49 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't know anything about Ndukwe.

So these guys might be ok for us next year. It would seem to me that if Ndukwe has talent, potential that if we surround him with pro bowl caliber players, he’ll excel by default. It’s easier playing next to a superstar.

by krayfish on Nov 17, 2009 12:50 PM CST up reply actions  

a pro bowl caliber Center could "fix" the whole line

* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers

by stagdsp on Nov 17, 2009 1:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Ndukwe and Alleman are toast

There will be at least two new lineman added next year through the draft and free agency, and I expect Colin Brown to be in the mix as well. Pioli has to find out if Brown can play after using that high of a pick on him. Those three guys plus Albert, Waters, Rudy N, O’Callahan, and W Smith are the eight who be active for games next year.

by Red Cloud on Nov 17, 2009 1:08 PM CST reply actions  

I wouldn't call them "toast" by any means

but, we’ll see what happens

* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
* Stats are for losers

by stagdsp on Nov 17, 2009 1:09 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't know about toast..I agree with stag

he points out they may be strong back ups. Remember we don’t have any depth at any position. So not only do we need more talent for our starters we need back ups.

by krayfish on Nov 17, 2009 1:35 PM CST up reply actions  

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