"I have to be smart," Haley admitted. "You can’t let the circumstances get to you too much."
The circumstances are: 1. Haley and Scott Pioli are getting a very difficult lesson in just how hard it is to win in the NFL; 2. Kansas City’s personnel is below average; 3. After running his mouth and carrying himself like his coaching would magically produce five or six victories, Haley is embarrassed.
about 2 years ago
woodman212
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fun article by Whitlock
I love how Cassel was throwing deep but I hate how his weak arm forces WR’s to slow down and wait for the ball.
Haley has good/bad moments
The passing game looks somewhat improved, though I’m indifferent about going for the 4th and 1. The offense definitely needs more Charles, even if he does seem to run a little “top-heavy.” 4-12 here we come!
Agree on the 4-12
I disagreed with the 4th and 1 call. You take the 3 points. I said it when it happened and stick to that, but I would disagree with Whitlock’s ego statements at this time. Whitlock is like the “always” disgruntled employee. He is never happy and always thinks that if he is complaining people will care about what he is saying. I couldn’t even make it half way through the article. He never has anything good to say.
It just sounds like Whitlock felt "Haloli" promised something they never promised...
instead he draws from their “attitude” that thats what they are doing. Their display of arrogance just oozes that they know whats going on and they go this. I think thats just being interpeted incorrectly…Their stubbornness coming into the organization is more focus to change a tainted culture that needed to be shook up after 6 wins in two seasons…
Fully agreed
The team culture in KC needed a big kick in the pants. Fans and media may not like Haley’s approach, but I think it’ll go a long way toward changing the team attitude for the better.
Beatings will continue until morale improves.
by burntorangehorn on Nov 16, 2009 7:06 AM CST up reply actions
I think that goes back to his Waters article.
Whitlock is just sticking to his ‘22 guys off the street’ story — and, if Haley walked in here, having never coached one game as the head coach and said that to someone then, yes, he did come in here thinking that his simple presence was enough to ensure five or six victories.
Unfortunately, we’re all learning along with Haley and Pioli that it doesn’t work that way.
I’m not saying I agree with Whitlock (and, actually, I haven’t even bothered to read the rest of the article because, frankly, I don’t care that much), but I can certainly see his point in the part that’s quoted here.
For the record, the "22 guys off the street" thing was never corroborated.
…but it’s being treated like gospel by certain talk shows and fans.
See Data Differently.
beyondtheboxscore.com | Twitter: @ justinbopp
It's never been denied
and was reported by a real, live journalist that, to my knowledge, has never been known to report falsehoods.
Silly opinions? Yes Falsehoods? No.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Nov 16, 2009 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
innocent until proven guilty
and there has been no proof at all….other than Whitlock. No evidence…no conviction. But you are welcome to believe anything Whitlock says if you want to.
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
10/28--The Koolaid buzz is beginning to wear off. Maybe drop this back to my original thoughts on the year. Chiefs go 6-10 (and that my be optimistic!). LJ gets a restraining order to stay 1400 yards away from the Chiefs. I'll let the rest stand for now.
you are welcome to believe anything Whitlock says if you want to.
And you’re welcome to beleive everything Haley doesn’t say (denial), or to not believe what Whitlock says despite not having a reason other than you wish it to not be true. What has he reported as fact that has turned out to not be true? Anything? Ever? If not, then why this one and now?
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Nov 16, 2009 8:34 PM CST up reply actions
Let's see
writes for the Kansas City Star, Fox Sports, and has full press credientials. I would say that he is a journalist. He mostly does opinion pieces, but he sometimes reports, too.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Nov 16, 2009 8:37 PM CST up reply actions
Haley
Sucks donkey dongs………………. hell, just ask steve. I really don’t like think he’s calling the right plays at the right moment’s, or maybe he just doesn’t know what he’s doing out there. After all they dont teach play calling or coaching at Golf college!
i agree
piss poor comment by me , i should raise my standards alittle. I was trying to find the game Last weekend over the internet and my computer got wiped out,so i wasnt in to good of a mood. Steve i wasnt trying to talk bad about you either man, sorry.
by CPT.Caveman on Nov 17, 2009 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
Articles like this
piss me the F off.
First of all, Haley is a rookie head coach. He’s allowed some mistakes. Anybody who expected the Chief to have more than 4 wins at this point in the season is a fool. I expected us to beat Oak twice, Was, and Jac. Oakland robbed us of 1 and Jacksonville got off to a good start and was able to keep us from coming back in the end.
Its easy to blame a blown play on Haley. For instance, 4th and 1 near your own endzone up by 3 points. I understand Haley wanting to go for it. I really do. I mean..another FG and we’re only up by 6. Oakland can still score a TD. So if they do, we’re down by 1. What if the next drive, we only get a FG? We’re up by 2 and facing the strongest kicker in the league. Easily could have lost by 1 point had we kicked that field goal. And then people would have been pissed at him for going for it on 4th and 1 earlier in the game and getting a TD and NOT going for it late in the game near our own endzone when we need a TD.
However, I think the playcall was iffy. Bowe did get WIDE OPEN in the end zone and Cassel missed him. I only saw the play once (I need dvr) and Cassel may not have been able to deliver the ball considering Cassel rolled right and Bowe went from the right side to the left side and that may have been a tough throw. I honestly think we should have ran the ball. Charles was consistantly getting positive yards and we only needed 1. If we get that first down, Haley is great. If we fail, Haley’s a fool. And thats what this season has been about. A bunch of potentially good calls that were poorly executed and therefore, unfairly, falls on Haleys shoulders.
People talk about not seeing improvements. Well..we’ve won 2 games in 10 and still have Cleveland and Buffalo to play. Denver looks like theyre showing their true colors, it would surprise me to get a win from them too. 4-12 or 5-11 is an improvement. Sure, statistically we werent much better and actually worse in alot of areas but what do you expect with a 1st year head coach, with 1st year schemes, and a brand new attitude? We didnt have 2 wins until week 13 last year.
Yes, hes made some questionable calls. I understand that. But all of these questionable calls arent so questionable when they work. For instance..4th and 1..pitch to the outside. Soon as the play started, i thought we were doomed. What happens? Charles takes it for the first rushing TD of the year and of his career.
Its a lose-lose situation unless the players execute. Haley could have the 5 best head coaches in the history of the game in his ear telling him which play to call but if the players dont execute, people say Haley is the dumbass, Haley cant coach, blah blah blah.
They were saying the same shit about Jimmy Johnson.
by Petey14 on Nov 16, 2009 3:11 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
Oops.
It wouldnt surprise me to get a win from them (Den) too*
One more thing
Just like tonights game. Belichick went for it on 4th and 2 despite winning by 6 points. Why? Because the Colts definitely had a chance to come back and score. So why not go for it?
Well, the play was executed. And it would have been a brilliant call. However, he had no TD’s left, the refs called an incompletion when it was CLEARLY a complete pass. Colts get the ball back in excellent position and go on to score the game winning TD with less that 20 seconds left.
So is Belichick a bad coach because of that call? No! Does Belichick make gutsy calls like that fairly often? He sure does!
The difference is, he has a great team to make these plays. That one was on the refs, but it goes to show than anything can happen and you cant prepare for the unpredictable. They say Haley doesnt have the players to make those plays. But hes converted several 4th down conversions this year. Yeah, hes lost some in some big situations, but you win some and you lose some. Does that mean Haley should scale back the offense and not do the things he would normally do? NO! Because you have an offense that you are trying to establish. You are trying to build swagger and demeanor. You are trying to show your team that you play to win instead of playing to not lose.
It was incomplete,
the receiver bobbled the ball at first. If he had firm control where it first hit him they would’ve had first down due to forward progress, however since he bobbled it they spotted it where the receiver landed.
Ahhh
I guess I misunderstood what happened.
Well regardless of how the play turned out, the point still stands. Belichick gambled for it and he lost. It happens even to the best coaches. We had already seen what we were able to do all game against the raiders and that was move the football. If you get the first down you have an opportunity to make it a 2 posession game instead of making it a 6 point game.
Re: 4th down conversions
Petey, I appreciate the enthusiasm. But there’s little to justify the call. We’re talking about an inept Raiders team whose best player might just be their kicker. If you go for the field goal, you force Jamarcus or Gradkowski to beat you with a TD. If you go for it and fail, you force Janikowski to beat you with a field goal. Going for it on that down and situation was unthinkably stupid. It was almost as bad as going for it on 4th and 1 against the Chargers early in the game.
Yeah, have to agree
When playing an awful offense like the Raiders have you just follow the rational gameplan of taking any points that are available, and let them beat themselves. That was a really stupid call by Haley, and it would have been a stupid call even if he’d made it. It reminded me of the first Oakland game when he went for the onside kick early…even though it didn’t cost the team it was still a horrible call. You take chances like that against superior teams whom you can’t beat on talent, not against the Oakland Raiders.
I was supportive of Haley removing Chan as OC, and still am….it makes no sense to have an OC who’s philosophy doesn’t mesh with the HC. But I’m now on the bandwagon that says bring in a dedicated OC for next season, Haley needs to focus on game management, not play calling.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
Quite simply Haley fails to think ahead in those situations
Let’s assume for a moment that we do get the first down on the fourth and one using any play including the one that was called. All it does is gives you a first down. Getting a TD from those kinds of play calls are slim to none. So in this situation we now have a first down. What happens next is anybody’s guess. Do we get a TD on one of the next three plays (1st thru 3rd downs)? The stats say no because we haven’t done it all year. Most likely we kick a field goal three plays later anyway.
So from Haley’s stand point he had better figure out how to distance himself from the “moment” and learn to think ahead.
by BCRavenJHawkfan on Nov 16, 2009 10:17 AM CST up reply actions
However, I think the playcall was iffy. Bowe did get WIDE OPEN in the end zone and Cassel missed him. I only saw the play once (I need dvr) and Cassel may not have been able to deliver the ball considering Cassel rolled right and Bowe went from the right side to the left side and that may have been a tough throw.
the play call worked, i don’t know why so many people get so worked up over this. passing plays are designed to get receivers open. after that it’s an execution problem. bowe got open, cassel missed him. that is an execution problem that is on cassel not haley. sure a running play could have worked, but if cassel saw bowe it would have worked as well. haley called a pass play when the defense thought run and he won. unfortunately his players let him down and everyone wants to blame him for it.
UCrawford will eventually calm down and realize that Haley isn't a bad coach.
Will embrace the Fire Haley Bandwagon if we lose to the raiders by more then a TD...
..But we aren't going to lose.
LJ will not land in Pittsburgh
The Chiefs will not be the number one pick in this years draft
The Chiefs first pick of the draft will NOT be a OL
Thinks UCrawford just needs a hug... offer is there when you are ready UC :p
+1
No one ever says, "It's only a game" when their team is winning.
George Carlin-R.I.P.
by idahochieffan on Nov 16, 2009 7:53 AM CST up reply actions
Re: Bowe
You’re asking a QB to roll right and then throw to the left. One of the only QBs I’ve ever seen do that is Brett Favre. You can’t blame that on Cassel. The play was a designed rollout right. If you need any further proof of this, go to your backyard tonight, run to the right, and see how easy it is to throw about 20 yards downfield and 20 yards to the left (for you math majors, that’s over 25 yards).
I've seen Elway do that
Rolling out to his right and throwing to the left side of the field, 50 yards down field and on more than one occasion.
Yeah Favre and Elway are both hall of famers, but Jeff George could do it, it’s all about arm strength and finding the receiver in a limited amount of time. Russell has the ability to make that throw, but I doubt he would even if he saw bowe, the ball would have landed at his feet or sailed over his head into the stands. Boller could have made that throw, Croyle could make it, Rothlisberger could make it, Flacco could make it.
Cassel with his limited arm strength never had a chance to get that ball to bowe.
by mcclanahanman on Nov 16, 2009 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
bowe was crossing over toward the center of the field
not to mention he was only about 8-10 yards down field not 20.
UCrawford will eventually calm down and realize that Haley isn't a bad coach.
Will embrace the Fire Haley Bandwagon if we lose to the raiders by more then a TD...
..But we aren't going to lose.
LJ will not land in Pittsburgh
The Chiefs will not be the number one pick in this years draft
The Chiefs first pick of the draft will NOT be a OL
Thinks UCrawford just needs a hug... offer is there when you are ready UC :p
Re: Throwing Across your Body
Regardless. In general, throwing across your body rolling right and throwing left is almost ALWAYS advised against. Yes, you have some QBs that have done it. But the majority of the time, the ball doesn’t have enough mustard and it gets picked off. And you’re assuming that Cassel would even bother to look left in that situation. Almost all of the reads are to the right. It just so happens that one single read broke left.
Yes, it’s 8-10 yards downfield. But it’s also 20+ yards left to right. Realize that in order to complete that throw, not only does he have to throw an accurate ball, he ALSO has to outthrow the guy that had loose coverage on Bowe. If Cassel fires that ball in there, there’s a very good chance that defender can pick the ball off in mid-flight. Cassel’s only chance, really, was to lob the ball 25+ yards to his left.
It’s a dangerous pass and an ill-advised pass. And it’s a very difficult read to make when the play is designed to roll you out right. It’s asking an awful lot to ask Cassel to find Bowe and then make that kind of a throw.
I agree
But it WAS a risky playcall that backfired
HOWEVER. Bowe was wide open IMMEDIATELY off the LOS. He made a move inside right off the LOS.
This is why i would like to see the play again because I have an extremely hard time believing that in the VERY short amount of time it took for Bowe to get open, that Cassel was already rolling so far out to the right that he couldnt make that pass.
Its not like it was 40 yards down field. Or 20 yards. Again, like I said, I want to see the play again but I believe we were inside the 15.
Since it IS by Whitlock
I’ll decline to read it. I pretty well could tell you everything it says. To me, Whitlock is like an obnoxious drunk at Starbucks while you are trying to have a morning cup of coffee.
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
10/28--The Koolaid buzz is beginning to wear off. Maybe drop this back to my original thoughts on the year. Chiefs go 6-10 (and that my be optimistic!). LJ gets a restraining order to stay 1400 yards away from the Chiefs. I'll let the rest stand for now.
by Zodeman on Nov 16, 2009 4:55 AM CST reply actions 7 recs
ha-ha
Love that analogy!
"Every day is an evaluation and if you’re not out there how can we depend on you? If you’re out there and you don’t know what to do, how can we depend on you?" Accountability -- Haley-style...
Whitlock a drunk at Starbucks
Great stuff. He annoys me beyond measure.
The play
looked to be a short, very high flip to his 6’7" TE Brad Cottam but Cottam allowed him
Long time kool-aid drinker & too old to learn a new trick! No flip-flopping allowed!
Mis-posted above ^^
It looked like Cottam was to be the target but he allowed himself to be pushed out of bounds & Cassel had to string the play out too far while waiting for Cottam to get back in-bounds & no one else in the area was open so Cassel just tried to force it in. I think Bowe was supposed to drag the back of the end zone in the same direction as the roll-out but he saw an opening & went to it & Cassel was unable to find him because he was nowhere close to where Cassel expected him to be.
I think the 1st option was a jump ball to Cottam’s height with Bowe dragging the back of the end zone as the 2nd option.
Long time kool-aid drinker & too old to learn a new trick! No flip-flopping allowed!
Tasked made a great comparsion during the broadcast yesterday. He said the Chiefs are a better football team, while Oakland is a talented group of guys. I also like how after Haley blasts Bowe for being out of position, he go over to talk to him quietly.
by sms90 on Nov 16, 2009 8:30 AM CST via mobile reply actions
I think Haley can be a good HC
I also liked that, and it’s not the first time he’s done something like that with a player. He’s not the ranting loon some here & in the media try to portray him as. I still believe he’s going to be a fine head coach, but he needs to focus on game management and delegate play calling to a dedicated OC.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
Whitlock has a few reasonable things to say....
I hate the guy, but he said a couple things that struck me as true. However, they were nothing that really mattered.
It’s mostly just more mindless bashing. Today he is talking about the fg Haley passed up to try and win the game outright. SURPRISE! He’s original too! When Belichek goes for it on 4th and 2 to put the game away (and he was in his own territory) he’s a genius and it just didn’t pan out. When Haley goes for it on 4th and 2 (and the alternative is the Raiders have to drive the entire field) to put the game away, he’s a moron.
The offense had some big plays, did Whitlock talk about that? Did he mention Charles at all? How Haley stuck with the run for once? Naw just talked about “The play”. Because in Whitlocks mind there is nothing that Haley could ever do that would change his negative opinion of him. He is displaying more and more behavior that should be landing him the title “The Bigot”.
If Haley is ever successful Whitlock won’t quit spewing garbage and will be forced to quit the Star. Chiefs fans rejoice in the streets.
A rookie head coach makes a gamble and loses. On the same day a veteran head coach (perhaps the best ever) also gambles and loses. Unfortunately, one of these coaches lost the game because of their gamble.
Guess what, it wasn’t Haley.
Looks like Mr. Whitlock is sticking with the "ego" argument.
I think he’s just avoiding Occam’s Razor at this point; “not enough talent” and “rookie head coach” can only be said so many ways.
It’s much better to make this about personality, right Jason?
See Data Differently.
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