The First Pick for the Kansas City Chiefs in the 2010 Draft is... Not an Offensive Lineman
I have really enjoyed contributing to the Arrowhead Pride community so far. One viewpoint that has taken me completely by surprise is the overwhelming cry for the Chiefs to draft an Offensive Tackle in the first round.
Draft Philosophy:
I want to first start with draft philosophy, because there seem to be very different opinions about optimal draft-day approaches. The two most popular strategies are to draft BPA (Best Player Available) and to draft for Need. My personal opinion is that it needs to be a little bit of both with a much heavier emphasis on BPA in the earlier rounds. When I think about drafting in the first round, particularly in the top 5, I like to lump players into talent categories. You have your "can’t miss" players, your solid and consistent but unspectacular players, and your raw with upside players. That, of course, needs to be weighted with positional value—an average quarterback is going to receive just as much consideration as a very good linebacker—and with a team’s specific needs—Matt Stafford would obviously not be on San Diego’s target list with a young Philip Rivers on the roster.
I know I’m dumbing that analysis down a bit, but I wanted to make the following point as clearly as possible: with a top 5 pick, you do not pass up a top-tier player for a second-tier player unless you are convinced that a very good long-term player already exists on the roster.
I realize that we can’t really create these draft boards until we get into the heart of NFL Draft season, but unless something drastic changes over the next few months, there aren’t any can’t miss players at offensive tackle (the only position on the line with high first round positional value). Russell Okung looks to be the top OT in the draft, and he isn’t a player I’d take with playmakers still on the board. Reaching for a player is one thing; passing up on a playmaker in order to fill a need is a whole other animal. So from a BPA standpoint, it doesn’t appear that an offensive lineman is in the cards.
And look, here’s another reality we have to face. As much as I like Matt Cassel, he’s probably not going to engineer the same kind of explosive offense that Drew Brees or Peyton Manning engineer. I wouldn’t want for the Chiefs’ entire future prospects to revolve around Cassel’s ability to take over games from start to finish. The Chiefs are probably going to be a defensive team first. That doesn’t mean that you completely ignore offensive weapons, but it does mean that you place a little more weight on defensive players over offensive players.
The Big, Unappreciated Nasties
Another point to consider is that the biggest holes on the Chiefs’ offensive line are at positions that carry very low positional value. The Chiefs desperately need to upgrade at Center and Right Guard, as well as to groom Brian Waters’ eventual replacement. Ryan O’Callaghan hasn’t been bad at Right Tackle, but the Chiefs could probably do a lot better there too. These are three positions where the highest positional value tends to be in the late first round or early second round.
The Chiefs will likely have an early second, a later second, and an early third round pick. If two of those picks are used on upgrading one of those offensive line positions, then there is a good chance the offensive line improves by leaps and bounds without having to waste a high first round pick. Why waste a top 5 pick on an offensive linemen when there are so many opportunities to bring in top-level talent at 2-3 other positions on the line later in the draft?
Incremental Value
Let’s go back to the discussion that a player you draft would have to be significantly better than the guy you already have or a guy you can get in later rounds or free agency. In the Chiefs’ case, it could be too soon to write the book on Branden Albert. He’s playing at a new weight in a new offensive scheme. I thought it was really interesting when Haley a few weeks back spoke about how Albert’s weight loss has forced him to play with better technique, which is evident, because a lot of the mistakes he’s making are technique-related. Because he played Guard in college, his learning curve is higher than most young Left Tackles, which means that he deserves a little more leeway to make mistakes. Call me crazy, but I still like Albert’s upside. He has terrific feet and athleticism for a left tackle, so his ceiling is really high.
If you use a top 5 pick on a tackle, you better be sure that he’s going to be better than Albert and that he carries the same amount of upside. And you better hope that it’s by a fairly significant margin. Otherwise, you’re drafting a Left Tackle and bumping Albert to guard. Basically, you’d be draining a top 5 pick to draft a Guard, and that is simply unheard of. Drafting a Guard in the top 5 is a monumental reach.
Re-looking at Positional Value
I’ll let my bias show here. The three guys that intrigue me so far are players who play positions of traditionally low positional value. And given the talent in this year’s draft, as of now, the player who would make the biggest impact on the Chiefs today is Eric Berry or Taylor Mays. If you would prefer not to take those guys, then the next logical choice is probably Terrence Cody.
Nobody doubts the importance of the Nose Tackle position and yet, it carries such low positional value. It’s arguably the most important position on a 3-4 defense. The reason it carries such low draft positional value is: 1) in the past, there weren’t that many 3-4 defenses; 2) most 3-4 defenses were happy with their current Nose Tackle; 3) most teams that ran the 3-4 defense were playoff teams, so they tended to draft lower in the first round. That’s not the case today. There are less teams running the 3-4, so finding a quality Nose Tackle is going to become a little more difficult. We saw that in the last draft when the Chiefs drafted a 5-technique Defensive End. The demand for 3-4 players has lifted most of those players’ positional value.
At the Safety position, we also need to re-think positional value here too. Offenses are opening up their passing games. Years ago, you could have a dominant 1-2 punch like Jerry Rice and John Taylor. In order to beat this 1-2 punch, you had to bring in shutdown corners and bring in enough of a pass rush to force the QB to make poor decisions. In today’s league, things work a bit differently. Lots of teams like to spread the offense out. If we can’t beat you with Colston, we’re going to beat you with Lance Moore. And if you don’t like that, we’re going to dump off to a running back in open space.
When I watch Safeties like Troy Polamalu and Ed Reed, they can see a play develop almost as quickly as the Quarterback can. One of the best defenses against an aggressive pass offense is a Safety that can anticipate a pass play before it develops. The Chiefs’ Safeties wait for plays to come to them. They don’t go toward the plays like the elite playmakers do. Against San Diego, Rivers would dump off a short pass to Darren Sproles and there wouldn’t be a player within miles of him. Watch Troy Polamalu on screen passes—he blows up screen passes like a speeding bullet. Against both Jacksonville and San Diego, watch how many teams are safeties aren’t exploding to the right gap or how many times they take a poor angle to make a tackle. The Chiefs’ safeties make way too many mistakes and even if they didn’t make mistakes, they just don’t have the nose for the ball to disrupt offenses as much as a playmaker would.
They say the Safety has become the Quarterback of the defense and there’s a lot of truth to that. Your Defense can do just fine with a solid but unspectacular Safety, but bringing in a playmaker at Safety can bring your defense to the next level.
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I can deal with looking elswhere as
long as we can get a guy like ciron black in the second round. but the oline needs a serious infusion of talent….
by callmesir on Nov 11, 2009 7:30 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Nope
The biggest playmaker on the board this spring will be a – believe it or not – nose tackle. I never get his name right because I have been teasing UNL graduate coworker by calling him DonkeyKong, but his last name is Suh. If you live in Big 12 coutry you know who he is.
He is huge, he is strong, he is athletic, and he is nasty. Drop him in between Dorsey and Jackson and in front of Hali, Vrabel, Belcher and Mays, and you have instant run defense and a legitamate pass rush. I could even take my old tired 50 year old bones out to play safety and we would still have a good defense
There are only 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary, and those that don't.
by Frahnkensteen on Nov 11, 2009 7:38 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
I don't think suh
is a NT….. I think he’s an end…. If dorsey is worth a first, by all means pick him up to play DE and use the 1st from dorsey to pick up an OT, otherwise I don’t think suh is a great fit
by callmesir on Nov 11, 2009 7:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Suh is a DT in a 4-3
Predictions for 2009:
The Chiefs will regret cutting LJ
Bowe's numbers regress due to lack of decent QB play.
The D gets better in the second half but still is plagued by big plays
Cassel looks more like the guy Pioli almost cut in the '08 preseason instead of the franchise QB he hoped he would be when he traded him for
Chiefs 3-13
by bonesjackson on Nov 11, 2009 8:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was saying...
in relation to our 3-4 defense…. hell who knows with a new DC maybe we draft suh as a 4-3 DT move dorsey back inside and hali back to DE… who knows….
I was aware that he was a DT in a 4-3…. just projecting what he’d be in our defense..
by callmesir on Nov 11, 2009 9:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
With Suh's height and weight
He’d project as a 3-4 DE, he’s a Tweener, add Hampton, or Wilfork for 2 or 3 yrs, and Seymour for a season, our D-Line would be there if we picked up a NT next year or the year after pretty high in the draft. with those 3 our D would probably be Legit, Jackson with another year of seasoning, Hampton or Wilfork eating up blocks, and Suh/Seymour at the other DE slot our LB’s would look dominating.
Dorsey would be a worth a low first to a high second at the very least to a 4/3 team, pick up a project LT with the Dorsey pick, and a DE/OLB to play Vrabel’s position, and a WR in the second.
Go CB in the third, someone who can play bump and run coverage
C in the fourth
G, ILB, and a project NT in the fifth
Playmakers in 2011 and 2012
by mcclanahanman on Nov 11, 2009 9:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But...don't we need playmakers now? Isn't that how you win games? Make plays?
Sorry…I sound rude, but I did kinda chuckle at this because the whole post was about how much a team needs playmakers to actually compete and win games and then you said no playmakers until 2011-2012…
I like some of your choices here but…I can’t go with a LT when we have a great one already. If we did pick up a LT it’ll take him just as long, if not longer, as Albert to learn the new scheme and we need a defensive presense on our team immediately (sp?) I could go with everything else but that…
There's no hope with dope...
by chrisjo07 on Nov 11, 2009 12:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How can playmakers make plays
If they don’t have a line? You have to be able to control the line of scrimmage before you start adding outside talent.
Can Cassel throw laying on his back, can your LB’s tackle if they’re getting hit by O-Lineman? Will Berry be worth the pick if a TE/FB is constantly making the block on him? Can any WR make a reception if his QB is getting hammered before he lets go of the ball? Can a running back make a big run with DL all in his face?
Pioli’s first priority should be controlling the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball before making cosmetic picks.
Shit falls down, if the Oline isn’t getting it done, the whole offense is effected, RB, QB, WR, TE, same with the DLine, if the Oline gets a push on the D-line and some of those linemen can take on the LB’s, that leaves the FB and the TE to make blocks on the safeties and TE’s, you control the Line First.
by mcclanahanman on Nov 11, 2009 12:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
AGREED
So many people were mad that we didnt take Curry last year, when fact of the matter is…Curry would be getting knocked on his back by OL’s just like our LB’s did last year.
Dorsey and Jackson might not be racking up stats but they are taking up space at the LOS. A traditional NT doesnt have to be a “playmaker”, he needs to take on two blockers and hold his own ground while doing it. I think Dorsey and Jackson are both going to be great players.
Look at Baltimore’s NT. Kelly Gregg. Since his rookie year in 1999, hes never had more than 3.5 sacks, and averages around 60 tackles per season (40 solo) and as high as 80 tackles (60 solo). That means hes clogging up lanes at the LOS and dragging the ball carrier down. Hes nothing flashy, and hes never been to the pro bowl but he is a critical piece in Baltimore’s defense.
I think OL is the #1 priority BUT I agree with the poster in regards that…Okung is simply the BPA in terms of his position. But Okung is no D’Brickashaw Ferguson, Joe Thomas, Jake Long or Jason Smith, and because of that, I do believe that the OL can be upgraded in other ways.
While I believe that Albert is a good LT, I think he’ll never be better than above average. However, move him to LG and I think he becomes an elite G. Unfortunately, i dont think there is a LT that is worth taking that high to force Albert inside.
Based on that, I think that the OL should be upgraded with a C and RG because those are the worst areas of need on the OL. We should draft those somewhere in the 2nd and and 3rd rounds. So what do we do with our 1st pick? I would only take Suh IF we could get a 1st rounder for Dorsey because Suh is not a NT. Hes a 3-4 DE or a 4-3 DT. Hes too light for his height to be a NT. BUT.. if Dorsey could add weight and get to about 320-330, he’d be a perfect fit, if he can learn the techniques to play NT.
Wilfork is not coming to KC. I believe that Seymour was traded to make cap room for Wilfork. Casey Hampton is possible, but the Steelers would be crazy to let him go. If we get Hampton, I’d trade Dorsey for no less than a mid 2nd rounder and draft Suh. Jackson, Hampton, Suh..what a DL we would have, AND we’d still have 2 second rounders and a 3rd round, not including the compensation we get for Dorsey, to fix the OL/S/LB. Dont get me wrong..I would NOT trade Dorsey for less than a 1st round pick UNLESS we signed Hampton and had intentions of drafting Suh.
Problem is, there are so many FA’s coming up who we could use and not knowing who we actually get makes it hard to determine the draft choices.
by Petey14 on Nov 11, 2009 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You say you don't think Wilfork will be available
the pats took Ron Brace in the second round this year, I believe to replace Wilfork. Pitt has a young NT on the roster as well, I can’t think of his name though.
Seymour might be a FA after this year, he’s in the last year of his contract.
There are a lot of FA’s coming up, and a lot will not sign contract extensions, they’ll see what they can get in FA this year. KC will likely be a bigger player in FA under the new rules of FA, we’ll have more room to throw money around and still pretend we have a Salary Cap.
by mcclanahanman on Nov 11, 2009 7:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed that Suh is an amazing player
But he won’t last past 1 or 2. And despite the Chiefs’ poor record so far, it doesn’t seem like the team will finish last or second last. Maybe some teams needing QBs will draft them in the top 3 and he will fall, which would be great.
Blank
by benfunke on Nov 11, 2009 1:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you Jon
This team needs big time talent and playmakers just as much as it needs O-line help. The logical choice is to use the top 10 pick to get a big time player and then upgrade the line in the second and third round.
Feeling "The Love" and "Drinking the Kool AId"
by KCporkchop on Nov 11, 2009 7:39 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I don't know that I'm willing to gamble
that the help we need on the oline will be there in the second or third round
by callmesir on Nov 11, 2009 7:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Problem is
beside OKung right now no one appears to be a sure thing for 1st round Oline. Berry is the best safety right now and a top five player, which would help with the bad angle problem we seem to have every week as opposing receivers have career days against the D. Guards and Centers will be available in round 2.
by km230015 on Nov 11, 2009 8:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No one seems to remember that
berry is just a junior… he may stay in school…. Just like you said, there seems to be big drop off after okung…. if he’s there I think you have to take him, I’m not a big fan of reaching for a team need ala tyson jackson last year but I think you have to look o-line first.
by callmesir on Nov 11, 2009 8:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If he's projected to be a top 5 pick
then he would be an absolute moron to stay in school for another year. Particularly after seeing what’s happened to Sam Bradford & that Florida QB…staying in school has cost them both millions of dollars.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
by jmcgoblue on Nov 11, 2009 8:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you look at bradford as a stupid move...
but to him it wasn’t… he loved the college experience, and by all accounts berry has his head on straight… never know what a college degree means to him
by callmesir on Nov 11, 2009 9:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
true
but Bradford also had the motivation of going for the national championship…Berry doesn’t have that consideration with TN.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
by jmcgoblue on Nov 11, 2009 9:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
man you never know in college football...
look at nick saban and what he’s done at bama in 2 years
by callmesir on Nov 11, 2009 9:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, why did he say he intends to declare now then???
Bradford still has a year of eligibility remaining.
by chrisclark_dfw on Nov 11, 2009 10:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's not staying in school....
He’s a top 5 talent atm, and 2010 is the uncapped year.
It’s likely that by 2011 there will be a new agreement between owners and the NFLPA and we will see the salary cap back in place.
Further, almost everyone is on-board with the idea of a rookie wage scale as part of a new agreement.
That’s why some of the guys last year did NOT come out. They were gambling on the uncapped year in 2010.
It’s also why so many underclassmen will want to come out THIS offseason; to avoid the rookie wage scale in 2011.
If you’re a “first round” talent in college this season and have a chance to join the NFL in 2010 then chances are you will declare. The “signing bonus” with no rookie wage scale + the “salary reward” with no cap = your last chance to get more money than you will ever be worth before a new collective bargaining agreement goes into effect.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Nov 11, 2009 9:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not a gamble
There are 7 Tackles rated 5 star by scout.com, 5 of those are projected first round, but I don’t believe that because several juniors (like Berry) are going to declare for the draft this year. That’s just Offensive tackles, doesn’t even hit Guards or Centers. There will be plenty of O-line talent in the second and third rounds.
Besides, we don’t want Okung we want Ducasse
I'm not a smart man
by Gumpster on Nov 11, 2009 9:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Jon, that’s what I’m talking about. You hit the nail on the head IMNSHO.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
by Buck'O on Nov 11, 2009 7:46 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yep
I’ve said it before……..we need some ballers. Let’s use that first round pick on a talented player that is a gamechanger. Would love Berry there. We’ll beef that O-line up in the second round……
by Hail2DaChiefs on Nov 11, 2009 7:54 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Thank you!!!
I agree with you 100%. You don’t draft a RT or OG in the top 5. Here’s to Eric Berry, Taylor Mays, or Dez Bryant.
by JrGrayson on Nov 11, 2009 8:08 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Trade down
The Chiefs need at least 8 (new and improved) starters. Two FA’s would be nice. But that means Pioli must be nails in the 2010 draft. I don’t know if he’s got that in him.
We need:
TE
2 OL
WR
RB
Safety
NT
LB
More? I’d say this is the minimum. Obviously can’t be done in one off season.
by ChiefConcern on Nov 11, 2009 8:10 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I hear this all the time. It is not that easy to trade down. It is a big gamble for the team trading up and most teams will not do it. Especially for a top 5-10 pick like we will have. Besides they do not want to pay the money that it costs for that player either.
by DARIN on Nov 11, 2009 9:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
TE will probably be a FA
2 OL will come through the draft and Believe Pioli will be wheeling and Dealing this year.
WR I believe will come in round 2 with pioli’s history in NE
I think KC will stand pretty Pat at RB, possibly pick up a FA Bruiser
S I think we’re stuck with what we have for another year, possibly a FA SS
NT Hampton or Wilfork on the first day of FA
ILB will most likely be FA’s
OLB will likely come in the draft round 2-4
by mcclanahanman on Nov 11, 2009 9:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
2 OL in the draft..not first round though
NO WR that early. Unless a 3rd 2nd round pick is acquired.
Agreed on RB.
NT..Wilfork wont happen. NE already traded Seymour..theres no chance in hell they let Wilfork go. However, I dont believe they’ll keep Logan Mankins because of the OL’s they drafted last year that could replace him. Mankins would be a huge upgrade to the OL and allow more freedom in what we draft on the OL.
ILB..how about Karlos Dansby? He’s been franchised 2 years straight and isnt happy about it. He also liked playing in Pendergasts system and was friends with Haley. Strong connection could bring him to KC.
Either trade Dorsey and draft Suh IF a NT is acquired. No new NT, dont trade Dorsey. Draft Berry. Even though i said we need to build the trenches, the DL is much further along than the OL is, so a defensive playmaker like Berry wouldnt be a bad choice, especially since there is not a top of the line NT worth taking in the 1st. C and/or OG in the 2nd/3rd rounds.
Top FA’s that would immediately help the Chiefs…Casey Hampton, Logan Mankins, Karlos Dansby.
by Petey14 on Nov 11, 2009 3:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
IF NE is thinking about keeping Wilfork
Why did they draft Ron Brace?
by mcclanahanman on Nov 11, 2009 7:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I dont think
they feel real good about Ron Brace considering hes only seen action in 4 games this year. Idk about you, but I would think a 2nd rounder would get more experience if theyre going to be replacing a young, NT who is likely to become a pro bowler.
I could be wrong, but I really dont see it happening. Not saying I wouldnt like that to happen..I’d love it..I just dont think they would trade away Seymour AND lose Wilfork to FA. They can still franchise him in an uncapped year cant they? Theyve got Mankins and Wilfork and I think theyre more likely to let Mankins go before Wilfork. 3-4 NT’s are hard to find. There are good OL’s available seemingly every year both in draft and FA.
by Petey14 on Nov 11, 2009 8:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
starting to think
this stance is the correct one. I originally believed O-line all the way, but there are no real, dominant guys out there at tackle that are cant miss. supposedly…
maybe taking a guy like berry WOULD spark the D, as everyone has mentioned palomalu and reed have without a doubt done for their respective defenses.
Great insight here, Jon.
by be cee on Nov 11, 2009 8:10 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
It all depends on what they can get in FA
I would rather the Chiefs pick up their offensive line in free agency and trade. I still can’t believe the Saints traded us Willie Roaf for a conditional pick.
If Pioli can solidify one offensive line spot before the draft I would feel a lot better about holding off on drafting O-Line until the 2nd round. However, when I think of Briant Waters as a spot that needs filled as well. The guy is 32. We basically need 4 lineman.
Please help send my girlfriend to Broadway! Visit http://magonbroadway.blogspot.com/
by Patrick Allen on Nov 11, 2009 8:11 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I disagree with the entire analysis...
let me try to condense this for berevity sake
1. Rustle Okung is not a “cant miss player” ,and by your tiering, is a second rate player “solid and consistent”
…I disagree there. Many say that Okung is built in the mold of Joe Thomas. He is a natural franchise Left Tackle.
2. Rustle Okung is a “reach”
…again completely disagree. He is going to be a top 5 pick. That isn’t reaching.
3. “You place more weight on defensive players than offensive players”
…not when your 60 million dollar quarterback is running for his life every game. Arguably the “most” important player on the team.
4. Why waste top 5 pick on offensive linemen?
…cause drafting a franchise LT and moving Albert over to Right Tackle would give us bookend tackles. They aren’t easy to find. I think we have tried a few 2nd and 3rd rounders over there.
5. “You are drafting a Left Tackle and bumping Albert to Guard”
…We would move him to right Tackle.
Anyways, we need to recognize that we have so many holes on the team that its gona take about 3 years to plug them all. I thought we would be better sooner but the way Pioli and Hally have reorganized the team…its gona take a while. And when you have so many holes on your team you dont know weather to chit or go blind….you go back to basics. You build your O line and your D line. O line first to protect your QB “if you have a decent one” “which we have”. So this is how I break it down since I am not sure where we will be drafting. Probably 1-5.
1. Russell Okung
2. Ndamukong Suh
3. Eric Berry
might be able to snag Terrance Cody or Carlos Dunlap by trading up with our two 2nds and a 3rd. That is where I stand right now.
For the record. Last year I wanted Aaron Curry and a trade up for Alex Mack.
by MasterBlaster7 on Nov 11, 2009 8:13 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
then again
i tend to agree with you master about protecting the 60million dollar guy. your top 3 are the same as mine too. ugh…tough call, with so many holes. Lets just hope the pick ends up being a good one, as far as production goes.
by be cee on Nov 11, 2009 8:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
correction:
same top 3, not necessarily in that order. ;-)
by be cee on Nov 11, 2009 8:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
RT?
LT is a completely different position than RT. So you want to take our first round LT that has been learning the LT position for 2 years and move him to the right side? That just doesn’t seem logical.
by groundedchevy on Nov 11, 2009 8:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
pretty sure Albert would slide over to LG if we went with Okung…even though there’s no guarantee that Okung would be any better than Albert at LT. I know it’s been mentioned before that even Jake Long (#1 overall a couple years ago) has been struggling a little this year.
It would certainly project to be a pretty good line to have Okung & Albert on the left side, along with moving Waters over to RG to help out O’Call at RT. I don’t think it would be the most efficient use of draft picks & salary, but it would make the team better for sure.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
by jmcgoblue on Nov 11, 2009 9:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Slide Albert to LG
Great post. It would make the team better for sure.
But if Albert and Okung have similar upsides, then you can also achieve the same exact end state by using a second round pick on one of the best interiot linemen in the draft and keeping Albert at LT. After all, if Albert had no upside to play LT, he probably would have been drafted in the low second round.
by Jon Yoon on Nov 11, 2009 9:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I see it more like this
if Okung is selected, Albert goes to LG, a C is drafted round 3-5, and Richardson, Ndukwe, Alleman, or Colin Brown will be our RG, O’Callaghan will stay at RT unless Richardson takes some big strides. Waters will go for a 5th or 6th rd. pick in this year’s draft. All in all Our line would be improved and younger.
by mcclanahanman on Nov 11, 2009 10:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, that's possible
I wouldn’t mind that
As long as they get a great Safety in the draft as well…
Nate Allen, Earl Thomas IF they fall to the 2nd
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Nov 11, 2009 10:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: O-line lineup
mcclanahanman, a few things. I’d rather keep Waters in there and draft a potential replacement later in the draft. At the very least, Waters is a stopgap and when you have a long list of priorities, you keep whatever stopgaps that you can. Worst case, you use another 2nd or 3rd round pick next season or bring in a FA that can be Waters’ replacement when his time is done. But it still goes back to the point that you’re essentially using a first round pick mostly to upgrade at Guard.
Why do that when usually the best Guards go off the board in the 2nd and 3rd round?
by Jon Yoon on Nov 11, 2009 10:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the ONLY reason to do that...
is IF Albert CAN’T cut it at LT
I still think he can
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Nov 11, 2009 10:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't remember if it was Haley or Pioli that said
they didn’t think of Albert as a Left Tackle, I’m sure they’re looking to replace him this year, and if the pick isnt Okung, I can see it being a project guy that will take over LT by October. Now think about it like this, we took our LG with the #15 selection, and our LT with a high first.
beginning of the season if the pick isn’t Okung
LT albert
LG Waters
C rookie
RG Brown/Alleman/Ndukwe/Niswanger
RT O’Cal/B Rich/Ndukwe
By trade deadline
LT Rookie
LG Albert
C Rookie
RG Brown/Alleman/Ndukwe/Niswanger
RT O’Cal/B Rich/Ndukwe
by mcclanahanman on Nov 11, 2009 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure that pioli or haley said that
some media guys said “sources” told them they dont’ think of Albert as a LT…
i’m not hating your strategy above, though!
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Nov 11, 2009 10:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This
is exactly why the idea of getting ‘bookend’ OTs by switching Albert to RT is one of the most poorly thought out concepts out there.
The Kansas City Chief's 2009 record will be 5-11.
by Druful on Nov 11, 2009 10:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
IF Albert moves, it HAS to be to LG
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Nov 11, 2009 10:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Several flaws
-Okung is a reach. He will probably be a top 5 pick because he’s the best Left Tackle on the board, not because he’s a can’t miss prospect like Jake Long was.
-We have a $60M QB and I’m all for being patient with him, but raise your hand if you think he’ll be Peyton Manning or Drew Brees. The model for this team is probably going to be around building an outstanding defense, setting up a decent running game, and allowing Cassel to be more of a game manager than a game breaker. Nothing wrong with that model. And again, nobody is saying to ignore the offensive line. But given that the best Guards and Centers don’t get picked until the late first and early second, the Chiefs can use their very high second round pick on one of those linemen and maybe 1 or 2 of their remaining 2nd and 3rd round pick on another one of those linemen. The Chiefs could easily bring in 2-3 top tier interior linemen who can start right away without having to spend their top pick.
-Right tackles are very easy to find. That’s why nobody ever uses a top 5 pick on a Right Tackle. And no, Albert does NOT belong at Right Tackle. His strength is in his footwork and athleticism, not as the roadgrader they’d ask him to be at Right Tackle. If he was to move anywhere else on the line, he’d be moved to Guard, which is where he played in college and he could do well in a zone offense. But again, you don’t draft a Right Tackle or a Guard with a top 5 pick.
-To your list, Suh is off the list, given that the Chiefs have Dorsey and Jackson at 3-4 DEs. They’re not going to invest in a third.
-From a positional value standpoint, Curry would have played 3-4 ILB, which is very, very low on positional value
I agree with you that the lines are important. I think I’m one of the few people who still liked the Tyson Jackson pick. But that doesn’t mean drafting for need in a panic strategy. You draft BPA in the first and then draft more toward need in the later rounds. I have no problem with the Chiefs drafting Tyson Jackson in the first last year. I have a very big problem with them not bringing an Offensive Lineman until three picks later.
by Jon Yoon on Nov 11, 2009 9:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Dorsey is in the plans
Dorsey’s shorter than an ideal 3-4 DE should be, with shorter arms, and would be worth a first or a second and possibly another pick to a 4-3 team. So Suh makes sense and he’d be a Pioli guy.
Cody seemed to slim down for this years draft and might be a pain in the ass to keep motivated, can you say Ryan Sims? I knew you could……..Pass
I’d take one of the 2 NT’s in FA, Seymour to play that DE spot, with Suh spelling him and eventually displacing him sometime next year. Suh is who I want in the Draft lol.
Now with Dorsey traded for a first or a 2nd and 3rd or 4th, we could bring in a LT, keep Albert at LT, Waters at LG, draft our center, I believe our RG is on the roster, and O’Cal or B Rich will be our RT of the future. Trade Waters by the Trade deadline, slide Albert to LG, put in our rookie LT, Rookie C, young RG, O’Cal at RT. A whole New O-Line that’ll stay together for 5-10 yrs, Solid D-Line, with our ends in place for years to come, and a NT next year or the year after. Once the Trenches are taken care of, the other pieces are sooooo much easier to assemble.
by mcclanahanman on Nov 11, 2009 10:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I totally disagree with that first part
Dorsey has proven to be able to play the position
I think he’s in the plans.
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Nov 11, 2009 10:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dorsey has proven he can play the position
But he’s more suited to a 4-3, and isn’t someone Pioli Drafted, I can see Suh being picked and playing backup to Dorsey for a year, but if they can bring in Seymour and/or Suh, I think Dorsey’s time here is limited. Yeah Dorsey’s proven he can do it, upped his resale value, I believe he’s gone while his stock is high.
As far as the zone blocking scheme goes with all of the teams in the AFC west going over to a 3-4 or a version of it, I’m not a happy camper. 3 DT’s taking on 4 smaller faster lineman to me = not good for our running game. Now a fleet footed LT going against rush linebackers = perfect sense.
by mcclanahanman on Nov 11, 2009 10:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I hear what you are saying
I just don’t agree
I think this team now has its DEs in place, and Pioli will focus on fixing the OL, secondary and NT positions, along with bringing in more LB talent
we’ll see what happens
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Nov 11, 2009 10:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think Cody is worth that pick then?
I believe NT and the ILB’s will be addressed in FA, and OLB will be addressed in rounds 2-4 with a DE/OLB. I think we’re getting a project LT in the second and a center in the 3-5 round range.
I think there’s 3 options when we pick, berry like everyone is saying, Okung or Suh, and I’d have to lean towards Okung or Suh.
by mcclanahanman on Nov 11, 2009 10:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
NO
I think Cody would be good value in the 2nd, if he slides…
but NOT a high first rounder
I’d address NT with Wilfork if possible, or with a mid round pick if they can’t get Wilfork in FA or Cody in the 2nd
I agree they will draft an OLB somewhere 2-4.
I’d strongly lean towards Berry in the 1st
Cody, Norwood or an OT like Black, Fox, Young in the 2nd
a C in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th… whoever the top guy on their board is
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Nov 11, 2009 10:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I like Dorsey and Albert
I just don’t think Pioli and Haley are going to stand pat with herm’s guys and Albert has the better chance of staying in KC.
by mcclanahanman on Nov 11, 2009 10:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
suh is not
going to be drafted by the chiefs….unless he’s seriously learned his lesson by hitting 3 parked cars, i doubt pioli is going to gamble in the draft on stupid people
"We're not losers, we just can't win!"
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 11, 2009 10:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd agree with most of that
but even Drew Brees wasn’t Breejus for his first couple of years in the league. Which is why SD drafted Eli and then traded him to NY to draft Rivers.
The Kansas City Chief's 2009 record will be 5-11.
by Druful on Nov 11, 2009 10:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed...
people are underestimating Cassel’s potential… he could be a VERY good QB of the future for KC
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Nov 11, 2009 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But why move Albert to RT when it'll take Okung just as long to learn the scheme and we will still suck as bad?
Why not pick up a C or LG in FA and draft a couple OL instead of T in the draft and leave our big payday to a playmaker that can help more immediately?
There's no hope with dope...
by chrisjo07 on Nov 11, 2009 12:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Whoa whoa whoa
Hold up. I’ve never heard that Okung is built in the mold of Joe Thomas. I HAVE heard comparisons to D’brickshaw Ferguson but I dont see where that comparison comes from.
I wasnt even going to reply to your comment until I saw “move albert to RT to give us bookend Tackles”. Dude..Albert played LG through his entire college career, and played LT and LG in highschool. Moving Albert to RT is not even close to the first thing we would do with him. The right side of the OL is usually thought of as your run blockers. Albert is a better Pass Blocker, therefore hes fit for LG, NOT RT. I have never heard ANYBODY say we would move Albert to RT. Because thats just how absurd that it is. Switching from LT to RT is a HARD task, even for the best tackles. Moving Albert to RT could force him to learn everything he does without thinking with the opposite hand..meaning less time reacting and more time thinking. Moving Albert to LG would move him to his NATURAL position, instead of taking a risk and putting him at RT.
The last thing that really had me surprised was that you wanted Curry last year. At one point before the draft, I did too. Until I realized that the reason our LB’s were so absolutely terrible last year wasnt only a lack of talent, but the fact that our DL is being manhandled and OL’s were hitting the 2nd level quick and knocking down our LB’s. Curry would have spent alot of time on his back if we had not upgraded the DL. However, trading up for Alex Mack, i would agree with IF I didnt know that Herman Johnson was having a good rookie season. We had a chance to take him and we didnt.
Im sorry if I sound condescending but moving Albert to RT makes absolutely no sense. Before he was drafted, he was the best OG in the draft and was THOUGHT to have the ability to play LT. Putting him at RT would stunt his development. Albert needs to be moved back to LG IF a franchise LT is drafted, and Im not convinced that Okung is on the same level as J. Smith, J. Long, J. Thomas and D. Ferg.
by Petey14 on Nov 11, 2009 3:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The First Pick for the Kansas City Chiefs in the 2009 Draft is..
Tyson Jackson
And here is the rest of the 2009 draft picks.
Alex Magee
Donald Washington
Colin Brown
Quinten Lawrence
Javarris Williams
Jake O’Connell
Ryan Succop
Now can we start talking about the 2010 draft?
by ICTChief on Nov 11, 2009 8:18 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Ha!
I fixed it. Didn’t even catch that myself.
by Joel Thorman on Nov 11, 2009 8:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Since KC seems to be weak at both Safety positions
Let’s say that we get Berry with our #1 pick to become our new free safety….and then lets say that Taylor Mays is still available outside of the top 10 picks. Would it be asinine to trade the two #2s, or a #2 & the #3 to trade up and grab him to take over for M. Brown at strong safety?
It would certainly be a risky move…but if both players reached their potential we could be looking at a secondary with Polamalu & Ed Reed clones, along with Flowers & Carr. That would be nasty.
Predictions:
Kansas City will not win more than four games in 2009
Kansas City will have a new OC and DC in 2010
Kansas City will win at least seven games in 2010
by jmcgoblue on Nov 11, 2009 8:21 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Re: jmcgoblue
Great question and the answer is “no.” You don’t see a lot of teams with two absolute studs at Safety. The Chiefs need to keep as many picks as they can and Safety is not a position to trade the house for. If you’re talking about a can’t-miss QB, maybe.
I still believe that 2 of those three 2nd and 3rd round picks need to be used on offensive linemen.
by Jon Yoon on Nov 11, 2009 9:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point ICT...
I think we should all lighten up on the draft predictions this year….
We all know we are going to come down to an argument between the two most logical choices…then Pioli and Hally are going to draft “23rd’ish pick” wide receiver or corner, because its part of the “secret master plan” hahahahaha.
by MasterBlaster7 on Nov 11, 2009 8:24 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
berry all the way
I bet we all get so hyped on berry just like most of us did with aaron curry last year and I bet Pioli won’t even draft him….he will probably draft someone none of us expected….and we will all be pissed and ask what Pioli was thinking and that he is dumb and that we could do a better job…..
Let’s save ourselves the agony right now and go for someone more unconventional….then if he does draft Berry we can all celebrate!!
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Nov 11, 2009 8:25 AM CST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Tim Tebow?
10/19/09: The Chiefs are on their way to an 11-5 season...I think....
10/26/09: Okay, so it'll be 10-6, I can live with that...
11/9/09: So KC spots the league 7 games. 9-7 is respectable.
by mushin on Nov 11, 2009 9:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Now that
is as unconventional as unconventional can be! Good choice! :)
Long time kool-aid drinker & too old to learn a new trick! No flip-flopping allowed!
by ttownmikey on Nov 11, 2009 9:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
WE NEED PLAYMAKERS
All of the elite defenses have an outstanding safety ( Reed, Polamolu, Sanders). With the league now shifting to more pass happy offenses, a safety is necessary to compete. Let’s go with the Minnesota Vikings strategy and draft the best player available, which also happens to be a position of need for the CHIEFS. We have plenty of room under the cap, so we could sign lineman in the free agency. Just a side note, the Chiefs traded away their 2003 #16 draft pick- Troy Polamolu to the SteelerS to Move back to pick #32 for LARRY JOHNSON.
by chiefn25 on Nov 11, 2009 8:28 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think the "master plan" might be....
Send our guys to Kansas City and Denver. Then bet all our money on Denver when they play each other.
by MasterBlaster7 on Nov 11, 2009 8:28 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Ok...lets try this "the box" logic game out....
If you could absolutely get “Eric Berry” with the first pick……..Would you shot Cassel in the head to do it?
.
.
.
….cause well basicly that is whats going to happen if he doesn’t die this year haha.
by MasterBlaster7 on Nov 11, 2009 8:31 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
any coaches declaring this year?
I would draft Urban Meyer with our first pick.
Maybe we can snag a guy like Kirk Ferentz in the 4th or 5th.
There are also UDFA coaches like Steve Marriucci, John Gruden, and Bill Cowher out there.
Hope we can snag a good one.
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Nov 11, 2009 8:44 AM CST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Good, careful analysis, Jon
The trouble is that we’ve now had a whole generation worth of Chiefs drafts that were based on Peterson’s BPA philosophy, and we’re conditioned to think that’s the way it’s going to play out.
But it seems to me that in their first Kansas City draft, P&H demonsrated that they don’t completely buy into that philosophy. And while I don’t necessarily agree that Pioli was crippled by the scouting of people he didn’t hire (it’s not like he was doing a totally different job in NE, you know – surely he had some idea of what talent was out there!) it’s possible that this year’s draft could be an even greater departure from what we’ve become accustomed to seeing.
In short… I think it’s going to very hard to predict what P&H will do.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
by RDOGuy on Nov 11, 2009 8:48 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Good point
Seems like Pioli is out scouting 2 or 3 college games a week this year so you would assume that he was doing the same thing last year besides watching College Game Day every week!
He probably used his own notes much more than what he used the KC scouting dept. that he inherited.
Long time kool-aid drinker & too old to learn a new trick! No flip-flopping allowed!
by ttownmikey on Nov 11, 2009 9:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Peterson's BPA Philosophy
I don’t think there was anything necessarily wrong with Peterson’s BPA strategy. The problem was that his scouts and personnel guys were clueless on how to evaluate who the best player actually was.
by Jon Yoon on Nov 11, 2009 9:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, Jon...
I wasn’t trying to suggest there was anything wrong with BPA… in principle, anyway. In fact, I think you can make a pretty good argument that being a slave to that philosophy is in the best long term interest of any franchise.
I’ll agree that too many of Peterson-era draft choices didn’t pan out for the Chiefs. It’s easy to point to high-profile guys like Trezelle Jenkins and Ryan Sims and say that the personnel grunts didn’t have a clue.
But I also think that part of the problem in those years was that except in rare cases, the Chiefs didn’t give mid- and late-round choices a chance to play… so that we could see if they had any chance to contribute. Anybody can whiff on a high profile pick. But I think championship teams are built as much on average (and above-average) players as they are on superstars. You’ll never find any guys worth anything in the third round and beyond if you don’t put them on the field.
Sure… it’s possible that the scouts were clueless. It’s also possible that they found some good players who never got a chance to show it.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
by RDOGuy on Nov 11, 2009 10:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How much help is really needed to field a really good defense?
This is an important question when you consider that in today’s NFL the chances of having a totally lockdown defense are slim.
The rules have been crafted to now favor the offense. So much so that defensive backs are nearly forced to just wait for receivers to catch the ball then tackle, an exageration but you get the point. The NFL wants offensive fireworks, high scoring, back and forth games. To think that fielding a stingy defense is going to win a bunch of games I don’t think will happen. I know people will point to the Ravens of several years ago, but again the rules have changed.
The sooner we load up with the offensive fireworks the sooner we will be part of the NFL.
by BCRavenJHawkfan on Nov 11, 2009 9:00 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Berry
I hear you, and I’m a big fan of Berry but we really can’t start this discussion until we know where we are picking and have a better idea of who is coming out. Not sure that Berry would be worth a #2 or 3 pick. If the Chiefs go DT for a 3rd year in a row I might lose it. Cody is awesome, but the Chiefs have other needs. I would be OK with the Chiefs not going OLine in the 1st as long as they take someone 2nd/3rd round. I was furious with how long they waited last year. You can pick up all the high priced QBs and WRs you want but they aren’t going to do much unless they have protection.
by TampaRoyal on Nov 11, 2009 9:16 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I like the idea of Berry but I dont think he will be available when we pick
He’s rumored to go in the top 3-4 picks and I think we will be picking in the 6-10 range.
by Ren on Nov 11, 2009 9:21 AM CST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
I love talking about upgrading our talent..
But year after year we talk about positions of need, how many holes to plug etc. Just 3 more years and we’ll be competitive or whatever it is. But at what point are we going to hold our coaching staff accountable for the development/proper use of the already drafted or acquired talent on our team. Yes, we are talent deprived. It just seems like we neglect the fact that our position coaches MIGHT be part of this glaring problem. I hope Dorsey, Jackson, Albert and others will reach their potential with us. And not one of our rivals. Let’s upgrade players…and COACHES!!
by KCLonghorn on Nov 11, 2009 9:46 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
LOVE this post, Jon... wrecked
I’m absolutely on the same page as you on this topic.
IF they haven’t given up on Albert… no need to “reach” for a LT
A STUD Center should be available with the 2nd 2nd round pick, or even the 3rd or 4th, if we’re lucky.
Center is the missing piece on the OL. I know, everyone says they are “lacking talent” across the line… but again, I contend…
Albert may still be the guy at LT
Waters should still be around and playing well next year
O’Callaghan may be the guy at RT
as for RG… ONE of the following guys COULD be more than servicable: Ndukwe. Alleman, Brown, Niswanger, Smith.
Get me a starting Center, and the rest is gravy.
That being said, I’d be fine with an OT in the 2nd round, just to keep building.
OR G/T in the later rounds to build depth
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Nov 11, 2009 9:58 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
OH... and I believe that Safety is now the #1 need on the team
AND Berry is the #1 player in the draft (with the possible exception of Suh)
IF Berry is on the board, I’d RUN to the podium to take him.
IF he’s not… then you have to look at BPA, and it COULD be a LT
OR, if the Chiefs are picking a little later… McClain at LB could be Huge as well
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Nov 11, 2009 10:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd Rather Have Taylor Mays
But I’d be fine with Berry as well.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
Fire Haley now.
by UCrawford on Nov 11, 2009 10:08 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
really? why?
seems like a more athletic Pollard to me
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Nov 11, 2009 10:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Because USC Always Seems To Turn Out Good To Great Safeties
Even under the Pete Carroll regime. Personal bias.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
Fire Haley now.
by UCrawford on Nov 11, 2009 10:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Matt Light.
Sebastian Vollmer is developing into a starting LT fast for the Pats. I bet Pioli could work something out for Light, maybe our later 2nd round pick or even 3rd. Pick up up a decent C and I think we have a line that is good to go. Maybe even look at Mike Ghandy as a RT . Maybe Colin Brown even shows up to play RG and we can get something for Waters. I’m starting to think that Pioli accidentally killed Colin Brown and his body is dissolving in a barrel full of lye under Arrowhead.
by Egomaniac on Nov 11, 2009 10:45 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
that'd be a big barrel!
But, I would be OK with Light or Mankins from NE
would sure make it easier to fill holes in the draft
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Nov 11, 2009 10:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, maybe a crate.
Mankins is too young to let go of. We probably have a better shot at Stephen Neal than Mankins
by Egomaniac on Nov 11, 2009 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
After the consistent disastrous play we've had at Safety...
I’m all for Eric Berry.
by bwelch37 on Nov 11, 2009 11:17 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Our three biggest needs are OL (all positions), S, and NT
We can help fill the G and C positions and probably the RT position later in the draft or through free agency…I feel like Berry, Mays, or Suh would all be appropriate picks in the spot we end up at in the draft (somewhere in the top 6 picks). Secondly, our concerns should be at RB and developing some sort of pash rush. One of the best players I’ve ever seen in college at the LB position is Eric Norwood at South Carolina. I live in SEC country and have seen him take over nearly every game he’s played this year for USC. He’s one of those players that makes everyone else look like they’re a bunch of boys in slow motion. Now, I know OLB is not one of our top concerns but this guy is a converted DE to Weakside OLB and is a beast in nearly every aspect of the game. He can pass rush, is decent in the rushing game, and can get picks too. He’s a bottom of the first round type talent but i think he is worth moving up out of the second round for.
by Kristospherein on Nov 11, 2009 11:42 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think next year's guards are on the roster, and the RT
Next year’s LT and C will probably come out of this year’s draft. NT will probably come through FA and I can’t justify to myself taking a safety with a top 5 pick.
2 problems with our D-line, Edwards is not a true nose tackle and Jackson is a rookie.
O-line problems 1 youth and inexperience, bring back Art Shell as O-line coach, #2 C is Rudy Niswanger and #3 the left side of the line has taken a step back.
round 2 LT and round 4ish C
FA Wilfork or Hampton to play NT, moving Edwards to backup NT
FA Seymour, help solidify the DE positions
FA Watson or Crumpler, more reliable blockers and recievers at the TE position
Bringing in Seymour and Trading Dorsey makes a lot of sense to me, I could see Pioli sending Dorsey off for a 1st and 4th or a 2nd and 3rd filling more roster spots, and Drafting Suh to learn behind Seymour until he’s ready to take over. Trading Dorsey could even bring in a rookie NT, solidifying the DL for years, and the OL for years with the second pick out of that trade, giving us room to bring in the playmakers needed. To me the lines need to be first priority in this draft and FA season after those lines are solidified we’ll truely find out who our playmakers are.
by mcclanahanman on Nov 11, 2009 1:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: G, RT
I think that’s taking a pretty big risk. There is lots of room to upgrade at both RT and Guard. At the very least, you need to bring strong people to compete for those positions. Maybe Ndukwe or Alleman are the answer, but they haven’t shown us anything to date that leads us to believe they are a long-term option. Just “good enough” stopgaps for now. Same with O’Callaghan. I’d rather bring in a top-flight Guard and/or RT through the draft and force a competition. The worst thing you can do is be satisfied with our Guard or RT, and then learn halfway through the offseason that you were completely wrong. That’s what got us in trouble in 2009.
As for Dorsey, he’s not the ideal 3-4 DE in terms of physical dimensions, but I’ve been very happy with his play of late. I’d rather keep him around than bring in Seymour, a guy who only has 2-3 years of gas left in the tank at best.
by Jon Yoon on Nov 11, 2009 2:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One or two years of Seymour
and draft Suh or another young DE, you have right now and the future, plus 2 draft picks to fill 2 more holes. Don’t you think Dorsey is worth a 1st and a 4th or a 2nd and a 3rd?
I think Pioli is going to be thinking more like that come draft day and during the FA period. I think we have another big overhaul year coming, I think DJ is going to be offered a RFA tender and his rights will be traded, I hate to throw it out but Bowe could be on the chopping block as well this year.
I don’t want to see a fire sale, but we might have one coming.
by mcclanahanman on Nov 11, 2009 6:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: further complications
Another complication is that if 2010 is uncapped, the free agency pool is going to be very dry.
by Jon Yoon on Nov 11, 2009 2:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Cody is Pioli's Wilfork
He will take Cody with that 1st pick. Pioli is going to everything possible to strengthen the both sides of the line via the draft. He wants young guys at these positions. He is going to build the team from inside out. The exception will be Mankins. SP will go after him in FA.
by chief66 on Nov 11, 2009 1:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I don't know about Cody
He’s been a blimp all throughout college and slimmed down this year, the year he’s coming out, he has ryan sims written all over him.
by mcclanahanman on Nov 11, 2009 1:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He is big
but he is quick and gets good penetration into the opposing teams backfield. He does need to lose some weight. AL will play FLA in the SEC title game. Watch that game and then make a judgment on him. FLA has a good OL and Cody will beat many of them. He has passion for the game, which is something you can’t teach, or will upon a player. Also, I just think Pioli is following the mode in NE, build the defensive front and everything else falls into place.
by chief66 on Nov 11, 2009 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If KC can come away with Cody in round 2
I’d say take a chance on him, but he’ll be in deep sh*t with Haley over his weight, I just don’t see him having the professionalism to keep it under control.
by mcclanahanman on Nov 11, 2009 6:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
why draft a safety
when Nick Collins and O.J.Atogwe will be free agents? We have the cap room to make a huge offer to at least one of them and nearly two full months of free agency before the draft.
by kc_radrh8r on Nov 11, 2009 2:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
there will be FAs available at several positions of need
I’m good either way, but I think Berry is a rare talent
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Nov 11, 2009 2:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And the question is:
If Albert played well last year why is Haley worried about his weight? Because he’s an idiot.
by FrankPitts on Nov 11, 2009 5:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

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