Funeral for a Friend?

by Lanier63 on Nov 10, 2009 12:29 PM CST Comment 40 comments

Ladies and Gentlemen, I take this time to thank you for gathering here today to lay to rest a ….friend. Yes it’s the Kansas City Chiefs marquee itself. The last 11 years have been painstaking and hard to deal with because of the sickness that lured over Arrowhead One Drive. The team has had to endure the names of people who some consider legends in their own mind. Today is a day that will live in infamy.

Gone is the cancer that killed us, Larry Johnson. Can’t blame him anymore.

Gone is the Coordinator that killed our Linebackers. Can’t blame him anymore.

Gone is the Coach that demolished us, Herm Edwards. Can’t blame him anymore.

Gone is the Coach who killed our defense, Dick Vermeil. Can’t blame him anymore.

Gone is the GM who killed our offensive line future. Can’t blame him anymore.

Bernard Pollard is gone, Can’t blame him anymore.

Todd Haley is the coach right now and at least deserves our support. You cannot support the team and not support the coach, I don’t get that and don’t agree. Not every decision is gonna be right but we hope the majority will be. I will relate this situation we have suffered through the last 11 years like a fire in your home.

Hopefully we will be able to stop the fire in the room its starts in leaving most of the house untouched. (loss after loss due to old players, bad coaching and scheme)

However, after the fire is put out and the damage is done, most of what you see is either ruined or cosmetic issues. (new players with ability to compete must be brought in. Coaching needs to be considered also for change)

First you clear out the smoke and begin removing the destroyed items. (fire the GM, Coaches and get rid of the substandard players)

Then you tear out the walls and ceiling nearest the fire to make sure there was no extension into other areas. (get rid of the position coaches who need to go)

After that you bring in your contractor to evaluate your assets and determine a price to fix them. (hire a new GM to right the ship)

A plan is agreed upon and the work begins to replace the damaged items and bring the house back with a fresh coat of paint. (let the GM select a coach, who will also help evaluate your needs and bring in new players)

Although, smoke seeks air and as you know air is everywhere in your house. You still have to clean the other rooms to remove this distasteful smell. (you have to get new position coaches who are competent and capable of doing their job)

Once the entire house has been cleaned you should be able to enjoy a rebuilt house that you love. (hopefully win after win after win!)

Today begins the rebirth of what we know as the Kansas City Chiefs. Fifty three players will don pants, pads, jerseys and cleats to begin practicing as the new team that bears the greatest logo ever created to be adorned on and NFL helmet. Lets support the team as a whole for these last 8 games and see what happens.

Thank you for sharing in this opportunity to bury a….friend and help resurrect a struggling franchise that deserves the best and that is Chief fans support!

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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I support the team not the coach...

He shouldn’t have promised that the remodeling wouldn’t be necessary. Which he did. I think he said " I’m going to bring the Chiefs back to Kansas City" followed by “we’re not going to rebuild, we plan on competing right now”.

Then he said “great coaches find a way to win despite….” and “I have to go off what I SEE, not off what I WANT to believe”.

So in your house on fire analogy, I would hire a different contractor who could show me some true progress on my house, not just talk about it when it’s obviously not there. Which brings me back to Haley and my house on fire.

I support my house…it’s MY house, even if it’s on fire…but I don’t have to support the hired help if they suck.

Good post and I’ve read others that use similar analogies as well, but that’s my take on the burning house syndrome.

by krayfish on Nov 10, 2009 1:12 PM CST reply actions 2 recs

Agreed......

I think it’s Haley’s fault he’s got a lot of people pissed off. He probably should’ve come into his position as head coach:

1. Thankful he got the job
2. Eager to work with someone as creative as Chan Gailey
3. Not promosing to win more than 2 games with men off the street (still waitin)
4. Not trying to alienate the existing roster (low talent level or not, frustration can only make players worse)
5. Keeping is own responsibilities manageable since he’s on the job training as it is…..

He came out all peacockin and what not, so now he’d better man the hell up and deal with the backlash……..

Oh yeah…….Go Chiefs!

by Hail2DaChiefs on Nov 10, 2009 1:22 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs

rec'd Hail, well said and excellent points

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!

by upamtn on Nov 10, 2009 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

1. He was thankful he got the job.

I’d also like to thank Clark Hunt and the Hunt family and the rest of the Chiefs family for this opportunity, which I’m very, very excited about getting to work.

"I’m really excited about the task at hand. Scott and I have some work to do, obviously. I’m excited about being in Kansas City. As an opponent of the Kansas City Chiefs, rolling into this parking lot and knowing what you were going to face in these fans was a major task. I’m really genuinely excited to be on the other side of the field, to have these fans backing us, because they really are, in my opinion, the best place to play a football game is here in Kansas City.

"It’s an opportunity of a lifetime. I’m really excited to get to work here, to start evaluating the team with Scott and looking for ways to win football games."

2. I can’t find the quotes right now so I’m less sure of this one, but I seem to remember him saying good things about Gailey and looking forward to working with him.

I happen to agree with the choice to fire Gailey. If you find out something isn’t going to work and/or your styles don’t mesh, you don’t prolong the problem. You take care of it and move on so that the players will be getting used to the system you want to run instead of running one all season, then changing again next year.

That being said, I don’t necessarily agree with Haley taking on the duties himself, but I’m not sure who was available at the time that could have helped. I imagine he delegates responsibility more than we think.

3. I’m still waiting on someone other than Whitlock’s “source” to prove he actually said it. I’m not calling Whitlock a liar but he has been known to exaggerate at times. Not to mention his “source” could have not been telling the whole truth either.

4. I again pull a quote from an article on Bowe, who Haley’s probably been harder on than anyone:

Bowe said that Haley, tough as he is on him, never forgets to praise Bowe after even the most grueling practice.

5. I can’t argue that one. He likely bit off more than he can chew, especially taking on QB coach. One of his rookie mistakes. If he doesn’t fix it next year (and I think he’s getting another year despite some people’s wishes), then I’ll start getting worried.

I’m starting to think Carl/Herm and all the losing hurt us more than we realize. We got so frustrated that Carl got to stay so long and some with Herm too that at the first sign of bad things, we’re ready to junk the whole thing and start with someone else.

by bh13 on Nov 10, 2009 6:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

good points!

Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!

I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.

by Lanier63 on Nov 10, 2009 7:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

bh........

I think you might misunderstand me in that I am not ready to scrap Haley just yet. I appreciate your taking the time out to solidify an argument, but we’re probably on the same page anyway. The point I’m trying to make is this……..Haley came at this job and lit a fire under everyone’s ass like he has it all figured out. He might, but he shouldn’t have come at it with this smug attitude like he was gonna turn water into wine overnight.

Confidence = good (win or lose, because we need that in KC)
Cockiness = good (if you come in and pull off some kinda miracle)
Cockiness = bad……real bad (if you lose and in the process piss everyone off)

Do I have hope, hell yeah. And I don’t want another 3 years of rebuilding because I’m sick of wearing my jersey around Panther town talking about how my team (the Chiefs) are rebuilding just wait and see. So I will give him his due time. But I am saying Haley put a hell of a lot of pressure on himself, pissed plenty of people off, and made his leash that much shorter with the approach he chose coming into this situation…….Since I’m a diehard fan of the Chiefs I’m gonna ride this ship sink or otherwise, but he dug himself a hole and I (like the rest of us) hope he can dig himself out. If he does, we all win…..

by Hail2DaChiefs on Nov 10, 2009 9:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I can agree with that

While I personally like Haley’s approach, I can understand how it’s not for everyone, fans and players alike.

I certainly don’t agree with everything the organization has done so far this season, but I’m still one of those people that says give them another year. Have they made mistakes? Of course they have, I’ll never deny that. I’m just not ready to say they should be fired yet (not saying you are, just some fans in general).

In the end, the most important thing to remember is we’re all Chiefs fans here (well, mostly). We should be able to discuss our team without making it personal, no matter how much we disagree (again, not aimed at you).

by bh13 on Nov 10, 2009 9:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The only reason anyone cares about Haley's attitude towards the players is because we are still losing

If he was a complete A-hole but we were winning and the team were improving, no one would care.

I think Haley is learning a lot of things the hard way this season because he came in a little overconfident and has never had nearly as much responsibility as he does now. Even when he was the Offensive Coordinator in Arizona, he had Wisenhunt looking over his shoulder at everything because it was HIS offense.

I think Haley does have some good football knowledge and the design of some of his plays is very creative, though I believe they are above the level this team is capable of executing at this time. He needs to learn to work with what he’s got (which I think he will start to get a handle on by the end of the season).

I’m still not convinced he’s ready to be a head coach, but I’m hoping he is going to take the humiliating lessons he’s learned this year and grow with it and learn how to delegate responsiblity when necessary and when to take it on. When to dangle the carrot and when to use the stick.

Haley should have been a good couple years away from being a head coach in my opinion, but he’s what we’ve got now so the best we can hope for is that he’s a quick learner.

by ChiefDJ on Nov 10, 2009 10:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think we can all agree to that

even those that want him fired. If he’s going to be around next season, hopefully he’ll learn from mistakes he’s made and not repeat them.

by bh13 on Nov 11, 2009 2:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Now thats a reply I can completely agree with

In a way I am glad this has happened to Haley this year. I would hate for him to become head coach of a team and have a mediocre season or two and then a disaster of a season and have to climb out of the sewer after that. Learn the hard way first and hopefully we can all enjoy the successes starting next year.

Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!

I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.

by Lanier63 on Nov 11, 2009 8:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

hey, are you saying this year has been a sewer ...

oh wait … never mind, carry on my good man!

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!

by upamtn on Nov 11, 2009 8:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I would agree with DJ also

but I sorta look at it as beneficial that Haley had to take it on the chin for a different reason.
If he had had success being a dick then he would continue to act like one.
but if he can succeed by mellowing the approach all the better for long term Chiefs success

We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram

by Steve_Chiefs on Nov 12, 2009 9:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

bh........

Spirited discussion is the reason why I enjoy this site. I’m glad to have anything I post supported or challenged, because at least I know there are other people out there that care about this team as much as I do…….

by Hail2DaChiefs on Nov 10, 2009 11:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

I haven’t been here long and I’m just starting to get comfortable getting a bit more involved, but I do enjoy the discussions that can come about. A nice back and forth can be good for all involved. It’s only a problem when people start resorting to name calling (of fellow posters, not so much the subject at hand).

I may not agree with everyone, but that would be boring anyway. It’s nice getting other people’s viewpoints on things. Sometimes I disagree with them, but in some cases they can raise valid points.

by bh13 on Nov 11, 2009 1:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

welcome to AP, bh ...

I’m opinionated as hell, as you’ll find out in short order I’m sure … I’m anti-Haley and anti-Pioli, loved Herm (still think he needed a gameday assistant on the sidelines), huge Chiefs fan since they moved to KC way back in my youth

that said, I too love the banter, the humor (and yes, I’m sarcastically witty on occasion) and the back-and-forth discussions … agree or disagree on whatever issues, we’re all here for “our” Chiefs

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!

by upamtn on Nov 11, 2009 8:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I’ve been around enough to know full well where you stand on Pioli/Haley. ;)

For the record, I was open to Herm staying on. I may not have been completely sold on him, but I wouldn’t have been too upset if he’d stayed. He brought in what seems to be quite a few talented players. He definitely needed some help on the sidelines though.

To be honest, I wasn’t completely for hiring Pioli before he got the job either. I was interested in Eric DeCosta of the Ravens if I remember right.

I wasn’t really sold on Haley getting the job and I’m still not completely sure of him, but I do like certain things he’s doing. I don’t remember if I ever had anyone in mind that I wanted for the job.

In the end, I choose to support Pioli and Haley (but not blindly) through this season and most likely the next. They may not have been my first choices, but for now they’re in charge of the team I love. All I can hope for now is that they do indeed have a plan and that it will work out in the long run.

by bh13 on Nov 12, 2009 2:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

rec'd kray!

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!

by upamtn on Nov 10, 2009 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh Crawdad...

This house also had water damage. And they discovered some mold issues. The contractor, now that they’re into the work, is realizing that it’s gonna take a little longer to fix to our satisfaction.

Gee, this house stuff is fun!

Give these guys time to draft two studly O-linemen and then call the BBB if you’re not satisfied!

by Ozarks on Nov 10, 2009 2:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

why weren't these guys studying in Jan, Feb, Mar, April, May and June?

oh yeah, they were “too busy running a football team” … now I remember

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!

by upamtn on Nov 10, 2009 2:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well if you ask me they have been competing every game

~Im a star n the making just ask about me im soon to be da Chiefs 1st round pick~

by Da Chiefs Guy on Nov 10, 2009 2:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

"Today begins the rebirth ... "

excuse me, what the hell have they been doing since Jan/Feb???

why was the place that was there BURNED TO THE GROUND at all? it was a GOOD foundation, stable and well built with young talent … sure a new “home builder” was brought in, and I can see how he’s want to move a wall here or change the roofline there, maybe change the paint colors, different layout in the kitchen or and upgraded bath … but no, he DESTROYED what was there while PROMISING me that I could live in the house

instead of remodelling and building on the foundation, he demoslished what I’d already built with a different builder, totally demolished, and I’ve had to live in a low-rent, flea-infested motel ever since, all the while pouring more money down what is now a rathole of a porous, bottomless basement to NFL Hell while he makes lame excuses about needing MORE lumber and MORE concrete and MORE money to do the job

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!

by upamtn on Nov 10, 2009 1:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

lol

Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!

I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.

by Lanier63 on Nov 10, 2009 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

so ... got milk?

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!

by upamtn on Nov 10, 2009 2:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

i'm pretty positive

neither pioli or haley promised wins. they promised they’d work hard and they expected us to be competitive. i don’t take that as any type of promise for wins. i think anyone who believes we had a good, young foundation to build on isn’t thinking straight. besides, besides pollard, how many of these young, foundational players aren’t here any more because the way i see it, we still have a ton of young players who were here last year and have added even more. just my observation

Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman

by kcguy on Nov 10, 2009 3:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

You cannot support the team and not support the coach

How come you didn’t believe this when Herm was the coach?

I have never been a believer in Haley. I think he is wholly underqualified for the head coach job. I think he needed another 3 or 4 years as a coordinator.

Right now I do not support him because he is doing a piss poor job. He talks big: “22 guys off the street could win 2 games”, etc. but he is doing no better with “his” guys or using his get tough approach.

I’ve been waiting for a reason to support Haley. I’m looking for any sign of improvment and through 8 games I do not see this team one ounce better in any way than they were last year. In fact, in many ways they have regressed. It’s hard to support a coach that gives you no reason to hope that he has a clue what he’s doing.

I supported Herm because he had a vision and a direction. He wanted to take a decayed team and build it from the ground up with young, talented players. He probably went a little too far, yes. But at least he had a direction.

Haley seems absolutely clueless. All he talks about is the “right 53” but more and more those 53 seem to be the players that are willing to put up with the yelling, screaming and intimidation tactics he offers as “motivation”, even if they are not talented enough to win a game. He and Pioli have discarded young, talented players for old washed up veterans who have no future with this team.

You Lanier, more than anyone else here, I would expect to be concerned about the integrity of the Kansas City Chiefs, and not be willing to give all that up for a few wins under the Kansas City Patriots coached by a completely inferior head coach.

by ChiefDJ on Nov 10, 2009 5:34 PM CST reply actions 1 recs

I appreciate your opinions DJ :)

Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!

I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.

by Lanier63 on Nov 10, 2009 5:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

rec'd and totally on target, DJ

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!

by upamtn on Nov 10, 2009 11:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ahem

‘22 guys off the street could win 2 games’.

This is nothing more than a phrase used by Whitlock in one of his articles that he states is from one of his ‘sources’. The line has yet to be verified though some folks have all but declared it as gospel. Until proven otherwise I would not tag this onto anyone other than the one source we do know it is from…Whitlock

"There are few secrets in football. So execute." ~Coach Stram
"I think it's the fans. The place is crazy. It's a good crazy, if you're Kansas City." ~Coach Schottenheimer

by Bad Medicine on Nov 11, 2009 1:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You can keep denying it all you want if it makes you sleep better at night.

It doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

Whitlock quoted someone and Waters never denied it.

I don’t know why you find it so unbelievable. You don’t think it sounds like something a fiery, overconfident head coach coming in thinking he was going to set the world on fire would say?

by ChiefDJ on Nov 11, 2009 6:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Bad, it really doesn't matter if it was said or not (most likely was, but who cares) ...

… because the point right now is, apparantly Haley CAN’T win 2 games with 22 guys from the street … or the waiver wire as the case may be

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!

by upamtn on Nov 11, 2009 8:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I am not denying that it was said

It was by Whitlock but outside of that I think it is improper to pin it on someone else when there is nothing to substantiate the claim

Part of the reason I refrain from buying into it is because of the timing and the manner that it came out. Whitlock ranted and raved in his trademark way over the closed door policy to the media so who is to say that this was not some passive aggressive retaliatory remark?

It is just hearsay until proven otherwise.

"There are few secrets in football. So execute." ~Coach Stram
"I think it's the fans. The place is crazy. It's a good crazy, if you're Kansas City." ~Coach Schottenheimer

by Bad Medicine on Nov 12, 2009 12:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I would say

Haley HAS YET to win 2 games with 22 guys from the street because the season is not over

"There are few secrets in football. So execute." ~Coach Stram
"I think it's the fans. The place is crazy. It's a good crazy, if you're Kansas City." ~Coach Schottenheimer

by Bad Medicine on Nov 12, 2009 12:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Do not get me wrong

I do not think it is roses and lilacs when it comes to our team but I am willing to forgo this season for the sake of winning seasons to come. I have tempered my expectations for this season but when next season arrives I expect to see significant improvement, inside and out of this organization because I believe that all aspects of the Chiefs will be revamped in the way the Mr. Pioli is wanting it to be, from the staff to the players. If we are still floundering then I will be among the ranks that are crying foul.

"There are few secrets in football. So execute." ~Coach Stram
"I think it's the fans. The place is crazy. It's a good crazy, if you're Kansas City." ~Coach Schottenheimer

by Bad Medicine on Nov 12, 2009 12:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

this was not supposed to be a reply to me

"There are few secrets in football. So execute." ~Coach Stram
"I think it's the fans. The place is crazy. It's a good crazy, if you're Kansas City." ~Coach Schottenheimer

by Bad Medicine on Nov 12, 2009 12:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It appears that we are at an impasse

We’ve got a coach that isn’t ready to be a head coach just yet……If he stays, then we all better be ready to go through the growing pains with him like we’re watching our kid learn how to ride a bike and they are eating the sidewalk time and time again (don’t know where that came from seeing as how I don’t have kids). If he leaves, then we’re gonna be scraping our nephew off the sidewalk next year………reality is Pioli isn’t gonna fire Haley this year or next (somebody gave a good reason in another post), and I can’t bear the thought of another rebuild right now anyway. He’s gonna piss me off, he’s gonna piss upamtn off, and he’s sure as hell pissed UCrawford off, but I think we would all like to be wrong as soon as possible. We definitely have nowhere to go but up for sure…………

by Hail2DaChiefs on Nov 11, 2009 12:10 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

gonna? oh Dude, it's WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY past "gonna"

and not that I actually WANT us to lose to the Raiders – that would be sacriligious and grounds for impeachment from AP – but I’m itchin’ for an excuse to add “Fire Haley” to my sig line

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!

by upamtn on Nov 11, 2009 12:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Improved

While it has not resulted in wins, IMO we have improved. Where you ask? How about special teams for a start. I also think the run defense looks better even if the stats don’t seem to show it. By the way I think Herm should have been supported too. I think he got the shaft when he wanted to rebuild earlier in his tenure and was not allowed to. SOMETIMES I THINK WE TAKE OUR OWN OPINIONS TOO SERIOUSLY. All we see are the results on sunday. How much of the process of rebuilding this team are we really privy to.

David Logue

by dklogue1 on Nov 11, 2009 12:23 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I like this post

I think it was a creative way to present your thoughts Lanier (who, by the way, is my favorite LB ever).

I do agree with your points except when it comes to Coach Vermeil. Peterson undermined the team and it saddened me that it also brought DV’s career to end on a downside.

"There are few secrets in football. So execute." ~Coach Stram
"I think it's the fans. The place is crazy. It's a good crazy, if you're Kansas City." ~Coach Schottenheimer

by Bad Medicine on Nov 11, 2009 1:34 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

If most didnt see the underlying point of this post

it was to say, all those people we keep mentioning are gone. Lets get over it and start discussing now and the future. :)

Oh I left something out,

Jared Allen plays for another team now, Can’t blame Carl anymore.

Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!

I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.

by Lanier63 on Nov 11, 2009 8:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs