Gosselin: '09 Chiefs Looking Like '89 Cowboys
by Joel Thorman on Oct 9, 2009 9:58 AM CDT
in 2009 Campaign
132 comments
Dallas Morning News reporter Rick Gosselin is one of the most respected journalists around the NFL so we usually take note of what he says. He penned an article looking at the similarities between the '09 Kansas City Chiefs and the '89 Dallas Cowboys.
He writes, "Remember the 1989 Cowboys? All the pain and suffering in the stands? All the losses on the field?
"There's an encore performance in Kansas City this fall."
The similarities: New GM, head coach, quarterback, offensive and defensive systems and a losing record.
20 years ago, Jerry Jones entered the NFL owners' landscape and hired a man by the name of Jimmy Johnson. Like the current version of the Chiefs, the losing was plentiful. Those Cowboys lost their first eight games en route to a 1-15 record. Not exactly what you wanted to hear, right?
The free agent workouts and signings were a weekly tradition. 64 different Cowboys suited up and 36 of them started. Similarly, the Chiefs have had 54 different players suit up with 31 starters.
Gosselin continues, "Like Jimmy Johnson, Pioli believes he has his quarterback in place in Cassel. That's the key piece. His presence should accelerate the building process. Now Pioli needs to surround Cassel with some playmakers and upgrade the blocking front, as Johnson did for Aikman."
The Cowboys had a handful of future Pro Bowlers on the team and found a few more in the Herschel Walker fleecing trade. The Chiefs don't have the beneficiary of an extra eight draft picks but, as Gosselin points out, the key is having a plan and sticking with it.
Like Todd Haley and Scott Pioli, Jimmy Johnson and Jerry Jones went through a rough patch in year one but eventually they turned it around.
"The Cowboys survived," writes Gosselin, "and so will the Chiefs."
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Hear, hear!
"There are few secrets in football. So execute." ~Coach Stram
"I think it's the fans. The place is crazy. It's a good crazy, if you're Kansas City." ~Coach Schottenheimer
by Bad Medicine on Oct 9, 2009 10:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The key difference is that there are no more idiot GM’s in the league to make a Herschel Walker type trade with, unless Carl comes back somewhere. And that trade made the Dallas dynasty. This isn’t going to be as easy, and will take longer.
by dablueguy on Oct 9, 2009 10:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I Wouldn't Say That
The key difference is that there are no more idiot GM’s in the league to make a Herschel Walker type trade with
Matt Millen had a job for seven years. And Jerry Jones got suckered into dealing away three good picks for a broken WR last year. And Al Davis is still breathing. There’s always a sucker out there somewhere in the NFL.
But, as Warren Buffett said, if you’ve been playing poker for awhile and can’t figure out who the fool in the game is, then it’s probably you. So if Pioli can’t find a fool of a GM out there somewhere to milk…
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dan Snyder.
"What?!?! I aint no Obama for the weed!"
-Turk McBride
by HIV 2 Elway on Oct 9, 2009 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was that Warren Buffet?
I thought it was Matt Damon in Rounders?
RIP Bodhi - Not tragic to die doing what you love. You want the ultimate thrill, you gotta be willing to pay the ultimate price.
by craig in calgary on Oct 9, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It Was Buffett
Didn’t see “Rounders” but always heard it was good…it must be if they’re stealing lines from Buffett. :)
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I made it through 10 minutes of Rounders
and I was so bored I shut it off and I almost never turn off a movie once I start it.
Be sure to check out the Arrowhead Pride weekly Power Rankings
by Patrick Allen on Oct 9, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The big picture.
Jerry Jones usually wears a suit and Scott Pioli likes hats. Who cares? The point of the article is that just because the new guys come in and aren’t immediately successful doesn’t mean we’re doomed. Doesn’t mean we aren’t either, but that’s the point. No reason to hit the panic button for quite awhile…
by jbj8609 on Oct 9, 2009 12:33 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
+1!
If you don't recount the problems and issues of the past you are doomed to repeat them!!!!!!!
by Fan of the Red And Gold on Oct 9, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But The Difference Is
That in the Cowboys’ situation, they had an ace in the hole (the Herschel Walker trade) to restock talent that the Chiefs simply don’t possess. So when people try to contrast the Cowboys to the Chiefs as an inevitable sign that the Chiefs’ rebuilding plan is on track, they’re ignoring the biggest reason why the Cowboys were able to improve so quickly (because they were astute traders and built a foundation off of 38 draft picks in 3 years). Pioli hasn’t shown himself to be nearly that kind of horse trader yet. So far he’s just been picking through the scraps of the guys he used to work for…which isn’t yielding us a ton of good players.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Jared Allen trade was supposed to be our "ace in the hole" but...
As it turns out, we got the short end of that stick.
Dumbest move EVER!!!
by Chiefsfan1970 on Oct 9, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Wouldn't Say That
Albert might still pan out and Jamaal Charles too.
But yes, it was a terrible trade. Had the Chiefs not made it, we would have had Allen and Clady instead of Charles, Morgan, Dorsey and Albert (and we still would have had a shot at Charles or Morgan in the 3rd round). I don’t think any team trades Allen and Clady for those four players in a deal. We also really botched that draft by going for Brad Cottam instead of Anthony Collins (which I was upset about at the time).
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don't know if thats true at all....
Brad Cottam could still pan out as well. Also, We kinda Fleeced them. Anyone in the Chiefs position would have traded Jared Allen for a 1st and 2 3rds. The players they picked is on them. Also, They are playing for a bad team. Who knows how Charles and Cottam would perform on a bad team. Also, Todd Haley must see something in Cottam, He hasn’t released him right now. Just because a player doesnt break out as a rookie, You give up on him. Albert was declared a franchise LT last year, Now he is a bust? Hali and Dorsey were considered busts, Now everyone is saying they aren’t. Thats a major problem some fans have, and it seems Chief fans are as bad as anyone. Why dont we give these players atleast 2 full seasons before declaring them busts. Also, How do we know Allen would stay for 4-6 more years? What if he walked after his designation was over? Albert, Cottam, Charles for 5 years>Jared Allen for 1 year.
by darwithabar on Oct 9, 2009 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Chiefs Didn't Fleece The Vikings By Any Stretch
We got some picks…they got arguably the best defensive end in the game and now they’re one of the better teams in the league and they didn’t trade away that much of their future.
Also, Todd Haley must see something in Cottam, He hasn’t released him right now.
He also didn’t release Larry Johnson yet, and here’s the thing…Larry Johnson sucks. So does Mike Goff, who also hasn’t been released. So did a lot of the guys they brought in this year.
Let’s just say that just because Todd Haley doesn’t think a player sucks bad enough to be released, doesn’t exactly give me a lot of hope that player isn’t indeed a terrible player.
Just because a player doesnt break out as a rookie, You give up on him. Albert was declared a franchise LT last year, Now he is a bust?
Where did I say I’m giving up on Albert? Nowhere. I said Albert appears to have regressed under Haley’s “tutelage”. Learn to read for comprehension before you start throwing out accusations.
Hali and Dorsey were considered busts, Now everyone is saying they aren’t
Really? Everyone is saying that? Because I’m certainly not saying that. In fact, I think they’re looking a lot like busts. They’re not exactly fringe, but considering where they were drafted, they’re not very good players and they don’t really fit the system the Chiefs are running. In fact, I’d be surprised to see either of them around once their contracts are up. Although I think Dorsey’s mainly a bust because of factors beyond his control (system change).
Why dont we give these players atleast 2 full seasons before declaring them busts.
Hali’s been here since 2006 and he’s never been a dominant player. So I think it’s safe to call him a bust since he was a first round pick who’s produced like a guy who was a first round reach. As for Albert and Dorsey, I’d be a lot higher on their chances to succeed if I thought they had a coaching staff that had the first clue of how to use them effectively.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But didnt Allen have two DUI and was becoming a problem to deal with...
I think it was better for Allen for a change of scenery….not for the team though
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Oct 9, 2009 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He Was More Pissed About How Peterson Handled The Franchise Tag
And to be honest, I thought he had a legitimate gripe on it…Peterson’s behavior was condescending and arrogant and I could see why a player of Allen’s caliber wouldn’t want to put up with it considering how terrible the team Peterson assembled was.
I also didn’t think that the trade was all that bad at the time for what we got in return (as far as draft picks went). Unfortunately I don’t think the players Peterson chose came close to compensating for the loss of Allen (at least not to a degree that we couldn’t have replaced while keeping Allen).
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bottom line...
Allen and Clady > Albert, Charles, Morgan, and Cottam.
With Allen, our defense could still be pretty respectable. Especially with the additions of Flowers and Carr.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Oct 9, 2009 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup
Morgan and Cottam are looking like fringe players, and although I think Charles is still better than what we’ve seen this year there’s no way that if we offered a package of him, Cottam and Morgan for Clady the Broncos don’t hang up the phone laughing.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We beat the Cowboys in 1989
October 22 1989 @ Arrowhead 36-28
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Oct 9, 2009 10:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
matt throws in the score from 89'
take that suckers…………..
by krayfish on Oct 9, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
10th year anniversary
Lets do it again!!
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Oct 9, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yeah thats what I meant...ooops
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Oct 9, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never.....
try and do math on the fly.
by dragon6172 on Oct 9, 2009 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Was Wondering When This Comparison Would Come Up
Jimmy Johnson was also a successful head coach at Miami and Oklahoma State…which doesn’t guarantee success in the NFL of course, but does mean that he’s had experience managing a staff (something Haley, to be blunt, has done a terrible job of so far this year). Johnson didn’t try to be his own offensive coordinator, he delegated successfully to a group of talented assistant coaches and coordinators…and when they didn’t perform he cut them loose (like Dave Shula, the underperforming offensive coordinator he took on so he could get Dave Wannstedt from Miami then cut loose when it became apparent Shula was overmatched). He didn’t hold onto players past their prime, he didn’t keep players who were underperforming in the lineup, and he didn’t get into screaming matches with them on the sidelines (he saved that for the locker room or the flights home). Haley’s management style has not had much similarity to Johnson’s in these key areas.
There are some areas, however, where Haley is very similar to Johnson…he showed too much loyalty to players with whom he had a previous working relationship. Johnson favored former U of Miami players (including Alonzo Highsmith, for whom he made a terrible trade) and Haley favors ex-Cardinals or players with “Parcells ties”. It didn’t work out for Johnson in Dallas (Michael Irvin being the only notable exception) and I don’t see it working out for Haley here (since most of the Parcells guys he’s gotten have been marginal at best). Johnson dumped that loyalty by his second year on the job to everyone except Irvin (at the request of Norv Turner, the new OC, who realized that Irvin was a perfect fit for his style). Maybe that changes with Haley, maybe not. I suspect that it will since most of the “Parcells guys” he’s brought in are probably not going to win him a lot of games and even bad coaches have a limit to what they’re willing to put up with for players who suck.
Also, the biggest difference between Johnson’s Cowboys and Haley’s Chiefs is something that Haley had no control over. There’s no Herschel Walker trade in the offing for the Chiefs (a trade that netted them Emmitt Smith, Darren Woodson, Kevin Smith and Russell Maryland…as well as some solid complementary players). All the Chiefs got for their most marketable asset was a 2nd round pick. And while Scott Pioli’s tenure in New England showed some success in the draft early on, for the last three years he’s been no Jimmy Johnson on evaluating talent. His last three drafts in New England, in fact, were pretty terrible. Pioli can try and do all the clever things he wants in the draft as far as trading down or trading up or swapping players, but if he doesn’t have a home run draft sometime in the next couple of years (or at least find some gems on the free agent market) then the Chiefs are probably going to stay a rotten football team for awhile.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 10:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh, And
Jimmy Johnson never quit on a game at halftime. He was a jerk, but he was all about winning first and foremost…Haley’s yet to demonstrate that’s what he’s about.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still can't fathom the offseason lack luster though...
Sharper has two picks for td’s already…he was just sitting there available…we just figured fuck it…we don’t need him we’re good…bullshit…porter was out there…who needs him right?? what about ellis?? omg we passed on so many stellar defensive guys it staggers the imagination…
we passed on Boldin…what the fuck for?? he’s a lock….give them whatever they want for him and let’s get on with it….
denver got dawkins…and we didn’t …why? cuz who the fuck wants that kind of amazing player on your defense…we could have had porter, dawkins, boldin and seymour and then we would have had a chance…but no no…we’re good with Donald Washington..he’ll save us when he grows up.
by krayfish on Oct 9, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boldin Hasn't Been That Good This Year
So I’m fine with us not trading a first-rounder for him. He’s getting close to 30 and he’s injury-prone. Bad combination.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pioli is great
But I think he passes up talent too often because they dont “fit” the team. I am a firm believe in team first but you cant pass up talent because you dont think they will fit what your doing.
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Oct 9, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Drafting For "Need"
His last three drafts before he came here should have taught him how well that works out. Most of the players he drafted are either gone or quickly on their way out.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once again
everyone is assuming that these players even would have come to KC? How many of these guys did Piolii go after and turned down playing for the Chiefs? It’s not like Pioli is the type of guy to announce who he is make offers to. Second, how much over market value would you have had to pay these guys to come here?
by vincent2668 on Oct 9, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Pioli Can't Convince Players To Come To The Chiefs
Then why in the hell would we want him to be our GM? Seriously…the Chiefs had plenty of what most players in the NFL want this offseason, starting jobs and money. If Pioli can’t get them to bite on that, then Pioli is simply going to be a terrible GM.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For Market Value
I would say that Jason Brown was worth overpaying and maybe (maybe) Dockery. The Chiefs made no apparent attempt on either.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Matt Birk Was Available Too
No apparent attempt there.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And
Geoff Hangartner
TJ Houshmandzadeh
Laveranues Coles
Bart Scott
Leigh Bodden
Gabril Wilson
Chris Canty
Leonard Weaver
Heath Evans
We could have atleast gotten one of these guys…
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Oct 9, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
None of those guys re-signed
They all left for a different team…..
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Oct 9, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do to
And my right 53 is the most talented players you can get…
You think Randy Moss was part of the right 53 for the patriots…no way….he was the best option at WR for them and they grabbed him.
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Oct 9, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I left the sarcasm font off. =)
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Oct 9, 2009 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My Apologies
:)
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't NE wait until the established their style and attitude
as a team before they starting bringing in free agents that were forced to fit their system if they signed?
by vincent2668 on Oct 9, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What Does That Even Mean?
The right 53? All I see is a roster of guys who look like they’ll win maybe four games and probably less and most of the young players with talent were drafted by the previous regime.
If that’s the right 53 for Pioli and Haley then we’ve got the wrong people leading this team.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, Four Is Probably Overly Optimistic
They look like they’ll be lucky to match last year’s record.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What positions, outside of TE
are we worse at talent wise then we were last year?
by vincent2668 on Oct 9, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Other than kicker, where are we significantly better?
Thus far it appears we are about the same as last year.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Oct 9, 2009 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
QB, RT, RB, CB (experience), WR (#2)
by Big Chief on Oct 9, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
QB remains to be seen. I think this will be the case, but it isn’t yet.
RT = good call.
RBs = the same
CBs = the same
WR#2 = Not conviced Wade is better than Bradley at this point.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Oct 9, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll Dispute Some Of That
QB = agree with NJ
RT = maybe better, depending on how O’Callaghan pans out. Need a couple more games to see.
RB = worse. Part of that is the line, but Larry Johnson’s showing nothing this year and Jamaal Charles looks like a player in regression.
WR = I haven’t seen anything from any WR to suggest much improvement. Wade’s basically 2008 Bradley at this point and Bradley’s looking too much like 2008 Webb. The WR corps is essentially Bowe plus a bunch of nobodies and has-been minus Tony Gonzalez. And Bowe’s not dramatically better than last year (nor do I think that Haley’s headgames with Bowe during training camp helped either Bowe or Cassel).
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No Kidding
Bart Scott would have looked good in Chiefs red. Not so high on Housh but Coles would have been a better complement than Engram or probably Bradley. Chris Canty would have been a good addition. Most of them would have signed for reasonable contracts (or been worth overpaying).
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK. Bart Scott and Housh would have never come to the Chiefs
Lets not kid ourselves now.
by vincent2668 on Oct 9, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again
If Pioli can’t convince players to come here, then why should any of us believe Pioli is a good GM? His job is to draft well and to sell people on coming to play here. If he can’t do that, then he’s terrible at his job.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
A lot of NE success came in offseason signing and trades. Pioli hardly ever had good drafts…..he might have hit one guy in every draft but the rest were just crap.
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Oct 9, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That happened once they were established winners
by vincent2668 on Oct 9, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Their drafts up until 2005 were good to decent…2006 to 2008 were really terrible.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK. If that is how you feel then you should be bashing
the Hunt family. Thats all i’m saying.
by vincent2668 on Oct 9, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm Not Going To Bash The Hunt Family In General
Just individuals. And I respect the things that Lamar Hunt did for KC outside of his ownership of the Chiefs…he was a very good man. Just a terrible football owner who didn’t really care if his team ever won a championship.
His son’s only been in charge for a couple of years, so I’m giving him some time too…but I can’t really find fault with most of his decisions so far. I think his responses to the team’s struggles have been measured and appropriate. I’ll criticize the Pioli hiring if the guy flops, but on the other hand he did show that he was willing to fire a guy (Peterson) who just wasn’t getting the job done and if he’s willing to do the same with Pioli then that’s not really negligence on his part. Now, if the team struggles for as long as it did under his dad, then he’s totally fair game.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really? Judging Pioli less than 1 year into his tenure? Last I checked it takes time to build a team into a winner, where players want to come and play. And I’m glad he didn’t overpay for “talent” like Housh and Scott. That’s how KC got into the situation they are in now, having to rebuild massively.
by T-Rich on Oct 10, 2009 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone Gets Judged In The NFL
The only promise I’ve made is that I won’t call for him to be fired after one year. But every single thing is does is fair game for scrutiny. Or, in the case of the Chiefs’ o-line, every single thing he didn’t do.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 10, 2009 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And you know that no attempt was made how?
by vincent2668 on Oct 9, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do You See Any Of Those Players Here?
Did you see any reports of contract offers being made by the Chiefs?
No, no you didn’t. And whether Pioli didn’t sign those guys because he didn’t try or whether he didn’t sign those guys because he wanted to play “I’ve got a secret” or simply because he couldn’t figure out how to sign them, the end result is the same. He didn’t sign enough talent for the biggest problem area on the team despite there being good candidates available and despite having all the tools necessary to sell them on coming here. Jason Brown went to St. Louis, for pete’s sake…it’s not like he turned us down for Dallas or New York. He took a contract a couple hundred miles away in a town that’s hardly a football paradise for an organization that’s just as terrible as us.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the first year you can. You go get those players
once you are a few pieces away from winning. Not when you are trying to build your fanchise and establish an attitude.
by vincent2668 on Oct 9, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless Those Players Are Young, 2nd Contract Guys
Jason Brown is 25 and coming off a dominant year…that’s a perfect fit for an offensive line looking to rebuild. Dockery is a 27 year old guard with good athletic tools. Do you want a bunch of old guys to rebuild with? Of course not…those are the guys you plug in when you’re a game or two away. But you do want to target young guys who can be key building blocks for your team…always. That’s what Pioli didn’t appear to do.
And if you look over the guys that Pioli did bring in, it’s not like he went young with most of them. Lot of guys on the way out.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LJ was coming off a dominant run season when he got his contract extension. And now that is being lauded by everyone. If Pioli learned anything when he was with the Patriots, it was not to overpay players, and to build through the draft. Pioli has yet to even have a draft with his scouts and control over the team.
by T-Rich on Oct 10, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He Was Coming Off A Season In Which He Racked Up A Number Of Carries That Has Broken All But Two Running Backs
It was a stupid contract by a stupid GM who should have been fired for it, and I thought so at the time. The only contract that was dumber was the five year deal Peterson gave Priest Holmes at age 31.
LJ was coming off a dominant run season when he got his contract extension. And now that is being lauded by everyone.
Lauded? I don’t think that’s the word you’re looking for.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 10, 2009 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm More Mad About The Coordinators Haley Brought In
Gregg Williams was available and he’s done a very good job with New Orleans’ defense this year. But who did Haley bring in? The guy Williams replaced. And the coordinator who built the 2nd weakest part of the Cardinals’ team last year (the 1st weakest was the RBs…although the Chiefs hired the guy in charge of that too).
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He only brough in one..
Clancy. and….himself.
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Oct 9, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gibbs
He’s the linebackers coach now…they were debating which would be the DC based on whether they decided to go 3-4 or 4-3.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of Course, They Did Get A Late Start To Their Offseason
For which I also blame Pioli for dragging his feet on negotiations for the GM job.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Think It Falls On Pioli
Hunt was pretty adamant that he wanted Pioli first and foremost for the job and Pioli was the one who wouldn’t commit. Does Hunt deserve some of the blame? Sure…if your preferred candidate is taking an interminable amount of time to commit to the job, then you find someone who wants to be here. But still, Pioli was playing the “hard-to-get” game with Cleveland as well and I was saying at the time that if he was so happy being a second fiddle to Belichick then he should stay with Bill Belichick while we hire someone who wants to be a GM.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hunt
If Pioli is a mistake and Peterson (before) was the problem. At what point do we start pointing the finger at the Hunt family is all I’m saying. If you do believe that Pioli will work out in the long run. Then what does using this season as a beginning to get your system in place at the expense of a bad record really matter.
by vincent2668 on Oct 9, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's A Very Fair Question
I’ve been open about what I think of Lamar Hunt’s tenure as team owner, but I’ve been willing to give Clark Hunt a bit of a pass because he at least seems to be trying to make improvements and get competent people in the job (his dad just kept people he liked around forever, whether they were good at their jobs or not). If Pioli keeps this team mired in the current depths, then I think it’s fair to assign blame to Clark Hunt as well. His preoccupation with MLS and West Ham does concern me a bit that the Chiefs aren’t really a priority for him.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For The Season
It’s not so much that I want them to win a lot of games this year, but to show improvement. Individually, I don’t think the players are showing much improvement…several appear to have regressed under Haley’s tenure. And Pioli’s neglect of the o-line situation really has me concerned that he’s not got much of a grasp on the future. He traded for a QB, which was a good thing IMO, but he put crap protection around the guy and Haley has been playing games with him and his WRs all season…I don’t think they’re doing a very good job building the offense for the future. Lately it seems they’re more interested in playing head games with the players than with getting them able to function with each other.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just think that if
he would have chose to address the OLine this year and not the defense. Everyone would be sitting here bashing him for failing to address one of the leauges worst Ds last year? Both line were absolute crap. I don’t think you can rebuild both in the same year. So, he said I’l take my chances rebuilding the D first and hope we can get to the point that we can at least win game 10-7 in the next few years.
by vincent2668 on Oct 9, 2009 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Wouldn't Have
Do we want a great defense? Absolutely. But how long have we been waiting for the Chiefs to find a QB of the future and once we get one who looks very promising we set him up to fail from the start. It’s exactly how bad teams like the Lions (Harrington, Stafford), Texans (Carr), Browns (Couch, Quinn), and Bengals (Palmer) have stayed bad…they draft a QB to lead them, then let him get pummeled behind a substandard line. Next thing you know, the QBs either ineffective or done and the team’s advancement gets set back several more years.
A defense is relatively easy to fix in a short amount of time…offensive lines and QBs, not so much. And I think when Haley came in, most fans felt his priority would be the offense and they were fine with that.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe a QB has either got it or doesn't
I agree that it take an O-Line for him to be successfull. I agree as much as you that the o-line sucks and is the main problem of this team. I saw Trent suck when he first got here, but improved as the O-line did.
But, I do believe that once we do put a good O-line around him…If he truley is a decent QB, he will shine. I don’t think it is going to kill the guys future by playing a few years while the line developes. If it does, then he wasn’t the right QB to begin with.
by vincent2668 on Oct 9, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll Agree About QB Talent
But as Palmer’s career has shown, even a great QB talent (and he is a great talent) isn’t going to last long if his line can’t keep him upright. That’s why when the Chiefs acquired Cassel I though o-line should have become the top priority. Also because o-linemen tend to have the longer careers so they’re excellent building blocks for a team that’s starting where the Chiefs are.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear what you are saying.
And I don’t have a problem with your thought process.
Is there any chance that Pioli comes into the Chiefs and says “Look this team was the worst defense last year, but the offense was scoring points. I think we can get by with what we got on offense and I will start by repairing this defense?”
I will agree with you though, if the GM cant recongnize the holes on the team, that is a big problem. But, as you said…it is quicker to rebuild a defense. So if he felt that he could go that route and provide a quicker turn-around while holding off on the o-line?
I still think that the style of offense we ran last year, fooled alot of people into thinking that the talent on the O-line was better than what it really was.
by vincent2668 on Oct 9, 2009 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Palmer also will come back to form
once his line is improved and talent around him. Plus no running game. Once, if ever that gets rebuilt – I think Palmer will be fine again. I don’t think his career is in trouble because he spent the last few years with no line.
by vincent2668 on Oct 9, 2009 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's Had A Pretty Good Line This Year
The Bengals games I’ve seen have had good pass protection for him, but he’s still looking off. I think the damage he took already has eroded his skills somewhat. And I’m not entirely convinced his arm is what it was before last year’s elbow problems.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's funny.
We have been “fixing” the defense for about 10 years…
I gues being “relatively easy” is all about perspective!
I remember Dawson to Taylor, Kenney to Carson, and Blackledge catching the snap in his facemask. Seen it all...
by BinSC on Oct 9, 2009 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Relatively Easy"
By which I mean, assuming you have a GM and scouting staff who can accurately evaluate talent…which the Chiefs haven’t had for some time.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blaming Pioli for dragging his feet..?
You’re kidding right? Let’s see, you’ve had the choice of every NFL GM job that’s come open in the last 4-5 years, but suddenly you’re going to just jump on board once the Chiefs come calling? I doubt it. The Chiefs are damaged goods right now and have been for some time. That means the brand has to be rebuilt and that doesn’t happen overnight, nor does it mean the GM can convince every single free agent that KC is the place to be, it’s just not feasible, and how many veterans are ready to sign with a rebuilding team when there’s 20 other NFL teams in a much better place than KC to compete right away? Bobby Engram and Zach Thomas. Vrabel wanted no part of KC and the only reason he’s here is because he was traded.
I think this article is dead-on and there have been a lot of NFL pundits and historians who are pointing to this Chiefs rebuild as reminiscent of what the Cowboys went through, and I’m encouraged by that. This team has suffered because of extremely poor drafting, and I don’t care what level of football you’re on, if you have 2 consecutive years of bad classes, whether it be HS, College or the NFL, your team is in trouble. And let’s face it, there weren’t a lot of good O-lineman to pick from this season, and Pioli’s made it clear he’s not going to overypay for talent. Jason Brown? Yeah, how’s he doing opening up holes for Stephen Jackson? Bulger’s already out and Boller isn’t far behind.
I’ve been up and down on Pioli since the Raider game, but the guy needs time, and as fans, overzealous as we are, and the media, who thought that simply by bringing in Pioli this team would contend for the playoffs, we’ve been off. Way off. This team is bad, and adding a mish-mash of veterans doesn’t necessarily make this team any better. A win for this team will do wonders, and I’m still not convinced with the hardest part of this team’s schedule behind them, that they can’t string 5-8 wins together, and who knows, with the way this division is, compete for a division at the end of the year. Crazy talk? Probably. But if this team can beat Dallas, which I believe they can and will, there’s no telling what could happen next.
www.coachesaid.com/mo
by FredThreezy on Oct 9, 2009 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't you know
every free agent player wants to come to the Chiefs, and if they don’t Pioli is suppose to make them want to, and if that still doesn’t work…you are suppose to highly overpay like we did in the past for guys like Barber, Chester…
by vincent2668 on Oct 9, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's Overpaying For Talent
And then there’s overpaying for untalented players (or players who don’t fit your system). I think that a lot of the Chiefs’ failures over the last couple of decades have been improperly attributed to “overpaying” for players when in actuality the problem was that Peterson was just bringing in guys who weren’t that good to begin with. I don’t think Kendrell Bell would have been a good player for the Chiefs even if he were making league minimum. Same with Ryan Sims, Shawn Barber, and Ty Law (the Chiefs version…not the Patriots version).
Carl Peterson was never that good at judging talent. Even during the good years here his drafts were pretty sketchy.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I belive you hit the nail on the head!
This team will take TIME to come together. We as fans want an immediate turnaround that just won’t happen this year no matter how hard we want it to. However, I am optimistic that good things will start happening yet this year! We will win more games this year we did than last year. I will just be a matter of time!
If you don't recount the problems and issues of the past you are doomed to repeat them!!!!!!!
by Fan of the Red And Gold on Oct 9, 2009 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm Not Calling For Pioli To Be Fired
Just pointing out what I see as major flaws in his planning and implementation so far.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When did the Bronco's bring in Nolan?
I would be interested in when he was available and why he wasn’t persued? The Bronco’s were terrible on defense last year, implemented a 3-4 now they have the #1 ranked defense in the league.
Last year the Chiefs were terrible on defense, implemented a 3-4 and are still terrible.
The only difference I see is Nolan vs Clancy.
RIP Bodhi - Not tragic to die doing what you love. You want the ultimate thrill, you gotta be willing to pay the ultimate price.
by craig in calgary on Oct 9, 2009 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This Offseason
He was a McDaniels acquisition. He was coach of SF until last year.
And yes, he was a better pickup than Clancy.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, I should have been more clear
When this offseason was he brought in? Was he even a candidate?
…or was Clancy always the choice b/c of Haley?
RIP Bodhi - Not tragic to die doing what you love. You want the ultimate thrill, you gotta be willing to pay the ultimate price.
by craig in calgary on Oct 9, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He Was
They had a mini-competition about it when Haley was mulling 3-4 or 4-3 and Clancy “won”. Gibbs was then named linebackers coach.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not exactly.
He was second runner up. Romeo Crennel was reportedly their first choice, but elected to sit out to recover from surgery. Probably also figured he would skip a potential 1-15 season…
I remember Dawson to Taylor, Kenney to Carson, and Blackledge catching the snap in his facemask. Seen it all...
by BinSC on Oct 9, 2009 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're Correct
I wasn’t really counting Crennel, I was just talking about the two guys the Chiefs actually put under contract.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he wasn't picked up by us...
because we did have a head coach yet. nolan was picked up right after they hired McD. we were still waiting for the cardinals to lose in the playoffs. im sure originally, pioli thought…its the cardinals, theyll be out first round. but then they kept winning and winning. that really screwed us over concerning picking up other coaches. even with that, i think crennel was always our first choice because pioli had worked with him before but that fell apart when he decided to let his hip heal. at that point, there was no one else left to grab.
by MountainManMike on Oct 10, 2009 2:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pioli Gets Dinged For That
But not that severely. And if the Chiefs decide after the season to cut loose or lay the law down on the non-hackers on the coaching staff I won’t be too bothered by it…after all, even the best coaches sometimes make bad hires. But if the Chiefs continue be as terrible and don’t hold the coaching staff at least partly responsible…
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 10, 2009 7:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As For Cassel
Like Jimmy Johnson, Pioli believes he has his quarterback in place in Cassel.
Gosselin is factually incorrect, and that’s pretty inexcusable for a writer who covered the Cowboys during that timeframe.
Johnson drafted Steve Walsh with a supplemental pick his first season because he didn’t believe that Aikman was his guy. He was wrong, of course, but he didn’t hand over that job to Aikman until Aikman’s second year with the team. And he also didn’t give Aikman the full vote of confidence until the Super Bowl year.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aikman broke his wrist that year too
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Oct 9, 2009 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just remember this article
when we go bagel or max of 2 wins this season. I said all along 4 wins is a pipe dream. Hopefully, we can turn this arouns like Jimmy John
by Ren on Oct 9, 2009 10:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if this guy is related to Jon Gosselin....
by Ren on Oct 9, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably Not. :)
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cowboys had Jim Jeffcoat
Any comparisons to him….no way.
Dude had 100 tackles and 11.5 sacks in 1989. 100 tackles for a DE is crazy.
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Oct 9, 2009 10:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Jeffcoat Was A Very Good Player
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
11.5 Sacks
In the era of 7 step drops and lots of turf stadiums….DT was always better on turf
by Ryan in Nixa on Oct 9, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
On An Irrelevant Tangent
Best season I ever saw from a lineman, though, was Jerome Brown for the Eagles. He posted 150 tackles and 9 sacks at DT the season before he died in that car accident.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My favorite season ever
was Tyson Jackson’s 19.5 sack rookie season. Sure it happened on my Xbox in Madden 10 but it was still pretty satisfying.
Be sure to check out the Arrowhead Pride weekly Power Rankings
by Patrick Allen on Oct 9, 2009 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great!!
My best was when I got….I think it was Trung Candidate and put him in as a TE and let him run fly routes on the LB and Safeties every play was a TD…..it got old so I stopped it…..Madden is soo easy sometimes.
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Oct 9, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Had Tyson Jackson On The Chiefs In Madden 09
How prophetic that turned out to be. And despite Madden 09’s terrible pass rushing for d-linemen, he turned out to be a force there too. :)
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dont you hate it
When all they have to do is get close to your QB and they hook him up for a sack even though you hit the pass button…..then when you get to their qb all the sudden he gets the ball off before you sack him…..they cheat on that game sometimes.
Especially if you run…..you can watch the defense stack whatever side you are running to…..that is not fair.
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Oct 9, 2009 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This Year's Version Was Much Better
They fixed a lot of glitches and made the passing game more realistic…not that I didn’t enjoy throwing 90 yard bombs, but still. :)
Just wish I had more time to play it. Been traveling too much for the job lately.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That sucks
I love starting Franchises…..thats my favorite thing. I love to start with a shit team and make them better….it rarely works but I try…
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Oct 9, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Same Here
I like doing NCAA Football too, so I can control the players all the way from high school and use KU (or whatever college I eventually jump to) as a farm team. :) Also so I can use the actual players from college to fill out teams. Downside to that is, it takes me awhile to play through seasons, since I have two games I have to play to make it happen.
By the way, I completely rebuilt the Chiefs’ entire o-line in the first season on that game while still holding onto a few draft picks. Dumped Larry Johnson’s underachieving, malcontent ass too. :)
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you playing with the Chiefs
or simulating….I simulate about half the time. Usually because I play 5min quarters and the stats I get are rediculous and unrealistic…..simulating gets them down to earth a little bit
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Oct 9, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Haven't Had Time To Play Through Season One Of NCAA 10
So my Chiefs’ first season stopped after preseason.
I’ve been in class or on the road constantly since I bought those games, so really I’ve just had no time to play. Most of the time when I boot up the XBox, it’s only long enough to play Fallout 3 since I can quit in the middle of that at any time. Figure I’ll finish a couple of seasons of NCAA 10 when I take some vacation time after this most recent trip (I’m currently at Ft. Hood, TX doing training).
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Don't Simulate, Though
I like playing the games…want to put those players in the HOF myself.
I do find Madden 10 disappointing because they took out lead blocking, though. I was kind of enjoying lead blocking once I figured it out.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont have Madden 10 yet...
I have 09….I always get mine at Christmas time….I still have a playstation 2 and a Wii….Im not sure which system to get it for….I love my PS2 and Wii seems to be geared toward smaller kids….
I hope 10 is good!
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Oct 9, 2009 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chris Doleman
1989 – 94 tackles 21 sacks 5ff 5fr
Boom Shalakalaka!!
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Oct 9, 2009 12:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Bruce Smith
1990 – 101 tackles 19 sacks
1993 – 108 tackles 14 sacks
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Oct 9, 2009 12:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Reggie White
1985 – rookie season – 100 tackles 13 sacks
1986 – 98 tackles 18 sacks
1987 – 76 tackles 21 sacks
1988 – 133 tackles 18 sacks
1989 – 123 tackles 11 sacks
And it goes on and on….dude was the best ever!
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Oct 9, 2009 12:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
White Was The Best D-Lineman Ever
Closely followed by Deacon Jones.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Comparisons
There is only two good comparisons between the ‘89 Cowboys and todays Chiefs. Both were/are bad teams. Both brought in QB’s as building blocks for the future. Johnson once said he only brought Walsh in for competition and insurance in case Aikman was killed behind that horrible line in his rookie season. I don’t pretend to know his reasoning for obtaining Walsh, but they did draft Aikman and put him on the field first so I can only assume he was their man.
Obviously, the Chiefs have a lot of work to do before they become a contender. High priced free agents are not going to be the answer to the problems at least not until they have one more good draft. By good I only mean about four good players at key areas.
Chiefs will never be able to trade Johnson, Larry for anything close to what the Cowboys got for Walker. Unless, Al Davis’ gets more nuts than what he already is and decides to pull the trigger on such a deal.
I know many don’t believe this, but the Chiefs of today are much more talented than the Cowboys of ’89. We at least have two of the best corners in the league and some players, who if they live up to their potential can make an impact for the team in the future.
The jury is still out on the coaching staff and GM. We will just have to wait and see if Haley and Pioli are up to the task as painful as it is to watch. I do expect the team to make big improvements with next years draft and FA period. I might be foolish for believing this, but for my sanity I have to.
by chief66 on Oct 9, 2009 12:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I Like Our Young Corners But Best in the League? Really?
I love the optimism but wow that’s a strong statement. Derrick Johnson needs to take the diapers off and become a force in the middle especially stopping intermediate passes. That is a huge weakness on this defense aside from the non-existent pass rush. I’m hoping a 3rd and 5th overall draft pick on the d-line dont end up being busts. ugh
by Ryan in Nixa on Oct 9, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking the same thing...
Flowers maybe….but not Carr….not even close. Plus the 89 boys had lots of talent. More than we have now by far.
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Oct 9, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WHOA...
Matt, how old are you? The 89 Cowboys didnt have a single talented player on their line. They were bad all around. I guess Aikman alone is pretty close to Chiefs talent,lol. They were not even close as talented as the Chiefs though.
by darwithabar on Oct 9, 2009 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They Were Pretty Talentless
But they had Herschel Walker, who they were able to translate into enough draft picks to rebuild. The Chiefs don’t have that.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 9, 2009 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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