How'd we get in this mess?
by kcguy on Oct 5, 2009 9:35 AM CDT
99 comments
This all started in 2001
If you take an objective look at why the Chiefs have been so bad the past few seasons, then you have to start with 2001. That is the year we brought in Dick Vermeil. I know most people will have a horrible reaction to that statement but keep reading and allow me to explain.
Marcus Stroud, Santana Moss, Steve Hutchinson, Casey Hampton, Nate Clements, Reggie Wayne and Todd Heap all were selected in the first round past the 12th pick. The 12th pick in the ’01 draft is what we gave to St. Louis for Trent Green. I like Trent as much as anyone but he only gave us 5 years of service while all of these people are still producing at a high level.
Kris Jenkins, Aaron Schobel, Matt Light, Chris Chambers, Travis Henry and Shaun Rogers are all pro bowlers who were taken after the 42nd pick in the draft which is the pick we gave up to St. Louis for Dick Vermeil. Once again, I like Vermeil as much as the next guy but all of these players with the exception of Henry are still in the league producing at a high level for their teams.
Eric Downing, Monty Beisel, George Layne, Billy Baber, Derrick Blaylock, Alex Sulfsted, Shaunard Harts, Terdell Sands are who we drafted. Read those names again and keep in mind that T.J. Houshmandzadeh was drafted in the 7th round of the ’01 draft and none of these players are on our roster.
I could go on to the subsequent years but I wanted to focus on the ’01 draft because it was the beginning of the end. It began a disturbing trend of trading valuable picks for veterans, while most were good, who were near the end of their careers. It also began the trend for selecting poor talent with the picks we did keep. Basically, beginning in 2001, the Chiefs, led by Dick Vermeil and Carl Peterson, mortgaged our future on some veteran players and coaches that ultimately failed to win anything significant for Kansas City.
So next time you wonder why we don’t have the talent that other teams seem to have on their rosters, just look back to the “glory years” that Dick Vermeil gave us beginning in 2001 and the decisions that were made for the benefit of right now versus what’s ultimately best for the franchise. You will then understand.
You will also understand the need for patience as we attempt to do things the right way.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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Well that's obvious anyway...
we have a history of trying to get the one hit wonder year and win it all with 80 year olds with no regard for future years.
That’s why I feel that if we build slowly and proficiently this time, then all this horror will be worth it.
by krayfish on Oct 5, 2009 9:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
KCGUY you got a huge REC on this one
I was stating the same thing to my 14 yr old son towards the end of the game.
Carl and Vermiel let this team get old then Herm and Carl wasted another couple of years. When it takes an NFL player 5 or 6 years to establish themselves in the league, only a few quality players were selected in the draft in Vermiels or Herms era.
Do the math, assuming we select well in the draft starting this past draft we’re probalby looking at 2015 before we are the caliber of the NY Giants.
by CJ-in-2018 on Oct 5, 2009 10:04 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Herm actually did a pretty good job with our defensive players
and had not really started on the O yet if you remember that is what he was going to focus the 2009 draft on O-Line and some other help Herm did alot more good for this teams future than bad.
by kcchiefstd on Oct 5, 2009 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Herms guys
FLOWERS PAGE (POLLARD who is starting again in HOUSTON) DORSEY, TYLER, BOWE Just all the BEST players on our team. LEGGETT CARR you know just the players that will be here when we finally WIN. (HERM GOT THEM HERE) and I wanted HERM as GM his coaching skills I Question but his ability to bring in the RIGHT players I have never questioned. As Herm goes just look at the JETS who talked all that crap on him with the exeption of Vilma who is THE star in NO they are winninn mostly with HERMS guys.
by kcchiefstd on Oct 5, 2009 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
trading draft picks for old guys has never been a wise long-term strategy, and couple that with GOD-AWFUL drafting the past 10 years and you get what we have right now….a giant steaming turd on a plate for all of us to eat for the forseeable future. Hopefully it doesn’t get much worse before it gets better.
I think we’ll see signs of improvement towards the end of the season, at least I hope so. I don’t think it can get much worse(unless you’re a Rams fan) Carl Peterson resurrected this franchise, then let it swell, fester and completely rot into mediocrity, obscurity and irrelevance. It’s gonna be a couple more seasons to build the team into what it needs to be. Pioli is still doing demo. Next comes cleanup, then reconstruction.
by reedeasy on Oct 5, 2009 10:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
humble poop pie...ick!!
I’ll take mine to go please!
by krayfish on Oct 5, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we got Hermed.
"What?!?! I aint no Obama for the weed!"
-Turk McBride
by HIV 2 Elway on Oct 5, 2009 10:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
good post - I just wish I could, just ONCE, see a thread WITHOUT people invoking the name of ...
Herm Edwards
jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez, please! it was Carl who screwed up the team for so long, even after Herm was hired as HC, Carl had the keys to the car for both Herm’s first two years – Herm wanted to rebuild when her first got here but Carl said “no” – Herm managed to take an over-the-hill team with a plug-in journeyman QB to the playoffs, but still y’all are hatin’ on the guy
Herm had LAST YEAR as “his year” of getting players, HIS players … ONE YEAR … and yet y’all talk about having “patience” with Haley and Pioli
could the Herm Haters/Haley Apologists possibly be any more hypocritical?
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 5, 2009 10:41 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
and for the record: kcguy, that's not directed at you and/or your post
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 5, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Herm was so good he would have gotten another job coaching.
He may not have started the downfall of this team but he sure did put the nails in the coffin.
Chiefs set an NFL record,most roster changes in 1 season.
by bringbacktheglory on Oct 5, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually Carl didn't say no..
Carl DID let Herm rebuild…90% of our team last year was Herms draft picks and we still have a slew of them here with us still now.
And not all were crappy either. Bowe rocks. Jared Allen was king kong. Johnson Hali dorsey etc…
so it’s just simply not factual to say that Carl didn’t let Herm rebuild. We had the youngest team in the NFL during Herms reign…right along with Green Bay…who by the way doesn’t suck ass like us.
Not invoking the name of Herm or Carl would be like not invoking the name the Lamar…it’s still a recent and very valid part of our history. We still have players like Jared Allen out there making us look stupid to the NFL>
by krayfish on Oct 5, 2009 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nice points rec Krayfish
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 5, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well yeah, but it wasn't till last year that Carl got "outvoted" on the rebuild process
and yeah, not EVERYTHING Carl did was wrong/bad – even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes (JAllen was in before Herm) – and you know, you just made part of my point: that a lot of Herm’s picks are still with the team (see above post by kcchiefstd as well) – I was really trying to point out to CJ and HIV that blaming Herm for whatever the team is now is wrong and misguided
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 5, 2009 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
all i know is whats done is done
time to move on . we are on the right track right now . although i dont agree with some of the play calling haley is pulling off right now. i still have hope that once we get a couple drafts under our belt really start to spend picks on our lines and trades to get better on our offensive and defensive lines everything around us will work
its the reason why teams like the eagles and giants kill people there lines are so good when they use those 21 -25th picks they are just picking up weapons we need to focus on our lines
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Oct 5, 2009 10:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
while it's true that's what's done is done
my only point is to say that most people think vermeil did us a bunch of good here but really gave us no chance to be successful long term. a lot of people think it was herm when the reality is the mess was a snowball rolling down a mountain side when edwards took over. i’m not saying he is a great coach but he’s not 100% of the problem either. this mess has been 8 years in the making and it will take some time to come out on the other side
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Oct 5, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
to play devil's advocate if I may KCguy??
That’s not exactly true either about Vermeil. On the surface it seems that way and to some degree it is. But perhaps not to the extent your thinking it is.
We all know that Carl has a history of piecing in old guys in hopes of a one hit wonder, but not so sure about Vermeil in the long run.
Let’s face it, we’ll never know because he left us high and dry. That’s the part that sucks and leaves all those questions unanswered.
We don’t know what Vermeil would have done if he would have stayed a few more years. Neither does he. Because he made his decisions based on his 4 year plan. He doesn’t stay anywhere long. He never has. He’s done amazing shit with every team he’s ever gone to though.
If he had planned on being here another 10 years like Fisher or Cowher had, then he might have built and drafted differently; but let’s be honest, he wanted to get a ring on his finger here in KC and then get out.
by krayfish on Oct 5, 2009 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so you're saying
he mortgaged the future for the present? that’s not exactly playing devils advocate since that’s exactly what i said. for some reason, people hold dick vermeil close to their hearts here like he won us 3 super bowls or something. the guy thought he could do, traded away the future for what he thought he could do it with and simply didn’t get it done. that left us with no talent when these aged veterans started to retire or move on.
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Oct 5, 2009 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so I can't agree with you? Your right that's all. Now your mad I agree with you too? lol
by krayfish on Oct 5, 2009 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm not mad about anything. i'm cool with disagreements
the only thing that gets to me is when i’m misquoted or what i write is only partially read/understood and then commented on. any time you wanna go grab a beer and talk chiefs, let me know
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Oct 5, 2009 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i beg the differ although dick vermeil did win us some games and gave us old players
it was still on herm edwards play calling and also running his defense that cost us games. we lost so many games by 7 or more points because of bad play calls or bad clock managment and the fact that we never tried to throw down field.
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Oct 5, 2009 11:01 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
sorry 7 or less points
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Oct 5, 2009 11:01 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
and i say this dick vermeil turned this team around he took us to the playoffs
he did his job herm just didnt do his job trying to rebuild into a youth camp just isnt the way to go. yes the draft is important but it shouldent be your only bread and butter. your counting on guys who never even seen the pro level before. glen dorsey for one was a beast in college now he is below average at best. dick vermeil should not be blamed he did his job herm just did not do his.
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Oct 5, 2009 11:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
was that 1 trip to the playoffs worth the price?
i would rather have the players we missed out on and perpetually be in the playoffs. and fyi, vermeil rebuilt the team after dismantling it himself
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Oct 5, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes any trip to the playoffs is worth it. i think herm said it best
yoooouuu plllaaaaaaaaaaay to win the game . you play to win the game. getting to the playoffs is progress. and herm rebuilt a playoff team after we went to the playoffs lost to the colts we cut everyone.
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Oct 5, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so herm is in the same category as vermeil since he also took us to ONE playoff game
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Oct 5, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no i wouldent say that dick had more of a plan a better system
had much better game plan and clock managment
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Oct 5, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i have no doubt that dick vermeil is a better coach
but he is as responsible for the team today as anyone else. that’s the point. if you look at the facts, it’s really impossible to argue otherwise. he sold the future for the present and even by doing that, failed to win a playoff game. but i guess the 38-37 games were fun!
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Oct 5, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bottom line is we suck
both coaches had a vision of what they wanted to do they both did decent . but in the end you are in control of your own destiny .
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Oct 5, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now your just going a little too far kc guy..
vermeil isn’t “JUST as responsible for the team TODAY as anyone else”. Geez, I was backing you up til that comment. that’s just rediculous.
Vermeil hasn’t been here in years…it’s a totally different team. Other then waters and Lj who’s left from his dicks day? No one!! not the owner, the gm, the coaching staff or any other players…
so to say he’s JUST as responsible is just plain silly. Ok..that would mean your saying Dick is the reason we are 0-4 in the year 2009? When vermeil hasn’t been here in years? Yah..that’s a little far fetched.
you were doing ok and holding your own until that comment…sorry
by krayfish on Oct 5, 2009 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you just helped me make my point
no one is left from dick vermeil’s time. partly because he traded away picks and partly because he drafted terrible picks when given the chance. that’s unacceptable. and yes, he is as responsible for where we are today as anyone else
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Oct 5, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no he's not...that's preposterous...
Why isn’t Atlanta still shitty then?? Why did their new GM and coach make them stellar?? It can be done..it should be done…we’ve had YEARS…to get it back on track here…it hasn’t happened…
that’s not Dicks fault…this is all pointless excuse making…bad teams get turned around in 2 years all the time…jimmy johnsons cowboys …the broncos did it…hell most teams have had a run like ours…but they pull out of it within 2 years..
dick has been gone for a long time my friend…we’ve done a piss poor job since…we could’ve traded for draft picks and worked free agency better if we wanted…
by krayfish on Oct 5, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you do know that jimmy johnson turned around the cowboys
in large part due to getting something like 8 picks for 1 player right? the broncos were not as bad as us last year and just like us, they’re only 4 games into this season. you really need to reread the post to understand what i’m saying. i am saying you can’t mortgage the future and give up a bunch of your picks for aging vets and coaches to help you “win now” because it will cripple your franchise for years to come if you do
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Oct 5, 2009 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
in all fairness to Haley,
if we had only seen some steady improvement I think we all would have been willing to sit by for 2 years and watch things get better here too….
the third year is a charm if you’ve got solid leadership from the top down..
dick has been gone long enough for the leadership here to have effected change had they REALLY wanted to go get it done….
excuses excuses…it’s time to move forward and see what the current regime does NOW!! who cares about vermeils days…he was fun to have as a hc…he always made it exciting…but he’s gone and it was Carl and Herm who had two years to effect change..which they did
for the worse….worst and worstestererer ever veeven.
by krayfish on Oct 5, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you can't say vermeil is the reason we're 0-4...are you serious??
your actually saying that the whole reason we’re winless this year is because of dick vermeil?? what??
no doubt his era has still some lingering effects but not EQUAL effects…it’s not EQUALLY dicks fault we’re winless….that’s just silly.
by krayfish on Oct 5, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
apparently you don't read what i say
i never said this year is all dick vermeil’s fault. i stand by the fact that the chiefs downward spiral began under his watch. the falcons are not shitty because they didn’t continually trade away picks for coaches and old players. instead they used them to better their team. i know you, along with several fans, probably believe that we were great under vermeil but we weren’t. this season is the 4th since he’s been gone…wouldn’t it be nice to have some players left from then who could play? instead we have nothing except young players from the past 2 years that are developing. it’s not an excuse because i am not excusing the futility, i am saying why we are futile. i refuse to give vermeil a pass because he had our offense doing good things while sacrificing the future to do it. and by the way krayfish, wins are a byproduct of what you do in terms of bringing in talent and schemes and since we don’t have any talent, we aren’t winning! are you trying to say that dick vermeil bears no responsibility in the fact that we only have 2 players he drafted left on this team from when he was here? if that’s the case, who does?
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Oct 5, 2009 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Peterson
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 5, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
partially agree
but head coaches half a lot of input into who gets picked
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Oct 5, 2009 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yah he's right there SA
It’s true. We settle for way too much bullshit here in KC. Any playoff is not worth it. Losing in the first round is being the first team with the biggest disappointment. A superbowl is what it’s all about man. Period. The rest is cool if your inbetween superbowls…but when you only get to one playoff game in 20 years and you fuck that up…well…sorry that’ s not good enough…
by krayfish on Oct 5, 2009 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and anooother thing look at the dolphins
those guys didnt just cut everyone and pick up young guys off the streets and the draft those guys turned it around by hiring vets that know the game. joey porter pennington ricky williams. those guys grabbed guys who know the game heeeeeeeeerm edwards grabbed guys off the streets and tried to turn the team around dick vermeil had nothing to do with herm making those decisions nothing . Herm made his bed and thats final now its haley turn to get things done and he is showing progress in just the fact that he is making moves trading picks grabbing vets hes setting him self up for sucess in my opinion you cant win with rookies you have to have a mixed bag of talent to put it all together.
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Oct 5, 2009 11:09 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
you mean the 1-3 dolphins?
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Oct 5, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i really think you have missed the point of the post due to your angst for herm
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Oct 5, 2009 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Say what you want about the Dolphins...
They are a solid football team. Watch them play
Don't Fuccop Succop
by chicks_love_chiefs on Oct 5, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i have. i know they are solid
but just because they were 1-15 with cam cameron doesn’t mean they were anywhere near as bad as we really were. they have quite a bit of talent that was there before big bill came to them.
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Oct 5, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Their 1-15 team was garbage.
And Bill doesn’t need talent to win football games. He needs smart players who know their roll, for the most part.
Don't Fuccop Succop
by chicks_love_chiefs on Oct 5, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
is that why bill went 3-12-1 his first year as head coach?
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Oct 5, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if you look at the playmakers for miami
like ronnie brown, ricky williams, ted ginn jr, channing crowder, joey porter…they were all there prior to parcells. now there’s no doubt he’s added some missing pieces to help shore it up but i’m telling you they were not as bad as you think
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Oct 5, 2009 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we think we we're as bas as an 0-4 team in the NFL.
that’s what we think…so if you’ve some magic reason why we’re not 0-4 and maybe we won a game or two that we all missed…pray tell…let us in on the secret.
when your 0-4 and go 0-11 on 3rd down conversions in an entire game….that says it all…what the hell are you talking about?? we suck ass.
i love us as much you do but for God sakes man…love is blind…but that’s REALLY blind….we are as bad we think we are…
by krayfish on Oct 5, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i can't make heads or tails out of this comment
we are what we are today because of decisions from the past. the bad decisions started in 2001. that has nothing to do with blind love. that’s a fact
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Oct 5, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you said we're not as bas as we thin we are...
i said yes we are as bad as we thin we are..we’re 0-4 periiod…that’s how bad we think we are and that’s exactly how bad we are …. no one thinks anything worse than that so how are we not as bad as we think we are when we think we’re as bad as 0-4 is in the NFL..which is pathetic.
by krayfish on Oct 5, 2009 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you'll have to post where i said that because the whole point of this post
is that we are bad and here’s why
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Oct 5, 2009 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry...think..we are not thin...
cuz if that were true i wouldn’t be so fat lol
by krayfish on Oct 5, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
any 1-15 team is garbage...that's why their 1-15
by krayfish on Oct 5, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah...such garbage that they can win 11 games the next year with essentially the same team.
what an ignorant thing to believe
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Oct 5, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how ignorant is what?
1-15 is garbage..what else is it kc guy?? is it awesome?? is 1-15 great??
r u thinking this thru before you hit post?? seriously…1-15 is garbage..in a professional sport (not pee wee) PROFESSIONAL sport like the NFL..which is the elite of the elite…1-15 is terrible…
if it weren’t all teams would strive for 1-15 marks each year and be content with it…gimme a break man..your grasping at straws here.
some of your points were right on and valid..i said that..but to sit here and say that 1-15 in the nfl is good is outrageous…seriously man…ya’ just sound bad now
by krayfish on Oct 5, 2009 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the record sucks
but the team is essentially the same so is the team garbage? i don’t think so. 1-15 is easy to call terrible but to say the team is terrible is not looking past the surface. if the team was really garbage, it would have been garbage last year since they really only added pennington and jake long. that’s what i’m saying. i’m trying to go deeper than just wins and losses and don’t give me the “that’s all that counts” rhetoric. it’s too simplistic and it misses the point.
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Oct 5, 2009 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no it's just that simple..
the nfl isn’t about almosts or deeper meanings..nobody gives a shit..it’s about winning..period…there is nothing else…that just means you’d love it if your team had good players and stats but never won a game…well good for you…you can have a team like that and I hope you enjoy them..
the rest of us want a team that wins…no matter who our players are…i don’t care if spongebob is our QB and the teletubbies start on defense for us…if we win…that’s ALL that matters in the NFL..no one cares about looking past the surface in this league..
this isn’t dance class….
by krayfish on Oct 5, 2009 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sure they do because winning is a byproduct
and if you don’t care about the how to get there part, you won’t be enjoying much of it. also, if you don’t worry about building for future teams, you will end up with a team that may win a few games here and there but will be woefully inconsistent.
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Oct 5, 2009 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
your in the wrong place dude...
trust me…we don’t give a shit how we win..we just want to win. I don’t care if we are outplayed 500 yds to 10….Indy was outplayed by Miami hugely and still won…you think they care about that now?? NO sir!! they do not..they only care that they lost.
by krayfish on Oct 5, 2009 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
for that one day, no one would care
but i’m talking about building a team that can win championships for years not just a team that can make it to the playoffs and promptly lose. in order to do that, you have to do it right and you don’t do it right when you are trading away valuable picks for people you only get 3 or 4 years from. you just don’t. has pittsburgh traded away lots of picks for coaches and players? new england? indianapolis? maybe the giants have? no one has that is good year in and year out. that’s the point.
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Oct 5, 2009 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and you can't just care how you lose and not how you win
unless you don’t want to do a lot of winning
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Oct 5, 2009 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i dont have hate toward herm i thought he was a good motivator but he made bad
decisions as far as going the route he did. and the 1-3 dolphins last year made the playoffs and sure last year they played less talent and won some games this year injurys across the board pennington is out what can you expect they have a rookie qb in right now. and traded for thigpen
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Oct 5, 2009 11:14 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
funny that you mention the injury to pennington because they didn't win this year until they had to play his replacement
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Oct 5, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
SA...don't digress brother...you were right the first time...
Ok…Herm sucks as a head coach…he might be next best human to Jesus Christ for all I know..and maybe he could inspire alcholics to turn sober and become preachers for all I care…but he was and is HORRIBLE as a head coach…that’s not his calling…
don’t back track…stick to your guns…your both making valid points …but the fact that Herm is atrocious as a HC is absolute…you are what your record says you are…
by krayfish on Oct 5, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and if your trading for thigpen your really hurting right now at the qb spot.
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Oct 5, 2009 11:14 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
either way its early in the season pennington hurt is going
to cost you games down the line
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Oct 5, 2009 11:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Our coach
Because we hired a golfer for a coach.
vajazz24
by vajazz24 on Oct 5, 2009 11:22 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i'm pretty sure most of the league plays golf but i'm not sure what this is supposed to mean
or what relevance it has to the post
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Oct 5, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It answers the question
Q: “How’d we get in this mess?”
vajazz24 A: “Our coach…Because we hired a golfer for a coach.”
Your reply: i’m pretty sure most of the league plays golf but i’m not sure what this is supposed to mean
I this what he’s getting at is the Chiefs hired a bad HC to lead the Chiefs football team….could have been a good coach if we were a golf team.
Don't Fuccop Succop
by chicks_love_chiefs on Oct 5, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah because he only has 13 years of experience coaching in the NFL.
it’s easy to see how he’s not qualified. my point is it didn’t happen overnight and it certainly didn’t start because we hired a “golfer” as a head coach
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Oct 5, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
my other point is
those who don’t study history are doomed to repeat it. we need to build through the draft and sprinkle in some free agents here and there instead of trading away picks for coaches and aging veterans
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Oct 5, 2009 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
which is what Herm wanted to do when he got to KC to begin with ...
build thru the draft – but he was blocked by Old King Carl who wanted to go the “retread veterans route” … and did for the first 2 yrs Herm was in KC
was only last year that Herm won that battle … and those who think I’m saying Herm was an awesome coach, think again: he was horrible on the sidelines (though he WAS good at motivating the players to give 100% on every play, IMNSHO)
that said, it takes more than a year (or even two) to really rebuild and do it right … Herm had his focus on the defense (as he should have) and let Gailey run the offense and do what he (Chan) thought was best … the result: last half of last year the team seemed to gel a bit, even with new offense, new QB, injuries, etc … sure they lost, but they were competitive and entertaining …
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 5, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ummm kc guy...the golfer comment was meant more as a joke
it was supposed to be funny….you need to go look in the mirror and put on a fake moustache and make yourself laugh. then strike a golf pose…you’ll get it then…you’ll get it then
by krayfish on Oct 5, 2009 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trading a draft pick for a coach
Can’t be a good idea, ever.
Sign a coach when he’s out of work.
don’t mortgage your future to get one.
Because, when you trade a pick for a coach, you’re handcuffing that coach and hurting his chances for success by taking away one of his draft picks.
I can’t believe the Chiefs did it twice.
Also, first round picks for veteran QBs generally doesn’t work out too well in the long run
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 5, 2009 11:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
AMEN
This post did bring up that disturbing fact. Why the hell did we keep giving up draft picks for coaches? It’s one thing to make a bad pick, or trade a pick for a bad or old player, but why give it for a coach? I’m giving Pioli extra credit right now for not losing a draft pick for Haley. Carl would have found a way to do that.
by Big Chief on Oct 6, 2009 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How'd we get here...
Correct analysis. CP brought DV in to put the Chiefs in the Super Bowl once before CP rode off into the sunset. DV was already in his 60’s. He wasn’t looking at any long-term picture. The draft meant as much to him as it did to the famous George Allen. He was quite willing to mortgage the future to win now. Unfortunately, he forgot to build any kind of a defense. Blame CP more than DV. When DV hung it up after 5 years, w/o a Super Bowl appearance, CP should’ve done the right thing, and retired the day after DV.
by Special K on Oct 5, 2009 11:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
"CP should’ve done the right thing, and retired the day after DV"
yes!
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 5, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great Post
Rec’d…
The evidence of how bad we were last year and in the years leading up to last year is still there…
Half of last years’ Chiefs roster are no longer playing in the NFL. I tell you, if you change over the roster that much, its going to create some problems.
"Every day is an evaluation and if you’re not out there how can we depend on you? If you’re out there and you don’t know what to do, how can we depend on you?" Accountability -- Haley-style...
by Chief_Elmo on Oct 5, 2009 11:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
indeed
and hindsight’s always 20/20, so it’s pointless to to say, Dick did this, Carl did that & Herm did the other…they’re all gone and now Pioli & Haley have one shitstorm of a mess to clean up, so let’s focus on what the Chiefs need to do going forward instead of playing the blame game. It’s not going to clean itself up, and Clark Hunt, Pioli, Haley & the team are the only ones who can who can put the wheels in motion again. I don’t agree with a lot that’s been done, but at least it’s SOMETHING, and building a championship team takes more than 1 offseason. Like I said earlier, we’re still in demo(getting rid of players form the previous regime). Cleanup & reconstruction(drafting quality O-line, D and getting them to gel) takes even longer. Remodeling is a luxury that comes later(high priced FA’s that are stopgaps)
by reedeasy on Oct 5, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i concur
this isn’t so much about blaming anyone as it is explaining how we got where we are. i don’t think the majority of fans realize why we don’t have any talent on this team and haven’t drafted a superstar since tony gonzalez (i am aware that lj had two good years) it is truly amazing that from 2001-05, all we have left are 2 players who were drafted (lj, dj) it seems that you would almost pick one by accident at some point. i am excited because we seem to have a gm who understands it’s about acquiring picks instead of giving them up
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Oct 5, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bowe is a superstar and so is Jared Allen....period..so your wrong again.
by krayfish on Oct 5, 2009 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'll give you jared allen
but he doesn’t play for us anymore. bowe isn’t a superstar. i hope he becomes one but he isn’t one yet. period…
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Oct 5, 2009 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's ok KC GUY!!
We don’t have to agree here..your entitled…I just think your putting TOO much emphasis on Dick Vermeil’s era. Not that it’s not relevant but it’s not equal parts. You can’t say that Dick Vermeil is EQUALLY responsible for our current record. That’s where we parted ways right there. To mention some parallels between the two is fair and valid.
so if you’d just stay somewhere reasonable on the point your ok, but saying he is EQUALLY responsible when he hasn’t been here in years is going a bit too far. It’s silly. It’s been years now. You can’t live in the past anymore. We’re here and we had multiple opportunities to get several key players this off season and didn’t.
We had the same opportunities the last 2 years and didn’t. We’re here now, we’re not in Dicks era anymore. Let’s move on. The current regime is responsible. That goes with the territory in the NFL
by krayfish on Oct 5, 2009 2:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
it's cool if you disagree
but you build winners through the draft, not free agents and trades. we essentially gave up on the draft for 5 years and now here we are. that’s all i’m saying
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Oct 5, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so in the last, let's say 5 years, going a year into the Vermeil era ... out of these last 5 yrs ...
how many of those years have we NOT had a #1, #2 or #3 draft pick? that’s where you get the "talent: and foundation for the team … so that would be 15 picks overall … how many have we had, how many have we NOT had? (I know of ONE #2 for sure … this year for Cassel, a mistake IMNSHO) … how about the rest?
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 5, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we've had picks but
i also state in my post that we did a poor job with the picks we did have. i do think the past few drafts will produce some players who contribute to our long term success. bowe, dorsey, albert, hali, flowers, carr, page but even that isn’t enough
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Oct 5, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how did we give up on our draft over the past 5 years when
you just named 7 key players we DRAFTED?? Shitty drafting by mistake is one thing…giving up is another story. We didn’t give up…we fucked up. giving up is what we did in Philly
by krayfish on Oct 5, 2009 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you really need to read more carefully instead of just trying to be a contrarian
i said we gave up on the draft for five years (the vermeil years) not the last five years.
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Oct 5, 2009 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and when you consistently trade away picks for veterans and coaches
you are giving up on the draft
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Oct 5, 2009 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All of this is good in retrospect but the draft is a gamble and the Chiefs didn't have a servicable QB...
so in retrospect I’ll take those 5 years from Trent any day of the week…its the Chiefs fault for not developing a QB earlier then that…
by butchcassidy on Oct 6, 2009 3:15 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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