The Chiefs Defense Is Not Improving
by DThomasReigns on Oct 4, 2009 8:34 PM CDT
226 comments
From the FanPosts -Joel
This isn't a "sky is falling" post. It is just highlighting that Clancy Pendergast's defense has been horrendous, and we shouldn't allow perception to obfuscate the numbers nor allow Pendergast to hide behind the dismal offense.
The Chiefs defense is worse than last year, or equally as bad at best.
Why do I say this? Let's look at the yards allowed each week:
Week 1: Ravens - 501 yards allowed
Week 2: Raiders - 166 yards allowed
Week 3: Eagles* - 420 yards allowed
Week 4: Giants - 429 yards allowed
*McNabb and Westbrook did not play
While obviously terrible individually, they amount to 1,516 yards allowed in total.
Now let's look at the rancid 2008 Chiefs' first 4 games, over whom we are supposedly improved:
Week 1: Patriots* - 338 yards allowed
Week 2: Raiders - 355 yards allowed
Week 3: Falcons - 378 yards allowed
Week 4: Broncos - 446 yards allowed
*Brady was knocked out of the game early in the 1st quarter
The historically awful 2008 Chiefs had given up 1,517 yards total. 1 entire yard worse than this year.
The natural counterarguments have been:
1. "But, the offense is leaving the defense on the field too long. They are exhausted."
2. "We've been playing against playoff teams."
3. "It's a new scheme and it takes time to adjust."
Rebuttals after the jump.
Point 1 Rebuttal:
The supposedly "new, disciplined, and well conditioned" 2009 defense is getting defeated in the first half...before they have been worn down and become exhausted.
Through the first 4 weeks of 2009, the yards allowed by the Chiefs defense in the first half = 818 yards total
Through the first 4 weeks of 2008, the yards allowed by the Chiefs defense in the first half = 728 yards total
As for the argument that it is because the offense is so much worse than last year:
2009 Chiefs offensive yards gained in the first half through Week 4 = 379 yards total
2008 Chiefs offensive yards gained in the first half through Week 4 = 448 yards total
This year's Chiefs first half offense is only 69 yards less productive than last year's first half offense, yet the 2009 1st half defense is allowing 90 more yards in the first half. The defense is not getting off the field in the first half, before they are supposedly exhausted. They are being defeated in the first half.
Another way of looking at it is that the 2009 1st half Chiefs defense is allowing 2.15 yards to every 1 yard the Chiefs 1st half offense gains. The oh-so horrible 2008 Chiefs defense only allowed 1.65 yards to every 1 yard the Chiefs 1st half offense gained.
Point 2 Rebuttal:
Yes, we have played very good teams that were in the playoffs with the exception of the Raiders. The Eagles played without their star QB and without their superstar RB, and the game was over before the half..they still dropped 420 yards on us. The Giants dropped 429 yards and Eli Manning left due to injury 2 minutes into the 4th Quarter.
It can be argued that we played playoff teams in the first 4 weeks of last year, with the exception of the Raiders, again. The post 18-1 Patriots with Cassel leading them to 11-5, the playoff Falcons, the 8-8 Broncos who would have been in the playoffs if not for their own absolutely horrible defense...which leads me to
Point 3 Rebuttal:
Denver is in the same new 3-4 scheme with less personnel that fit it. They were as horrible as we were on defense last year, yet they are the #1 Defense in the NFL in this wacky 3-4 scheme.
To repeat: The already terrible Denver Broncos defense switching to a 3-4, who were widely criticized by all of the national media for not having the personnel to run a 3-4, are the #1 Defense in the NFL.
Apparently, it doesn't take that long to not be terrible in the 3-4.
[EDIT: I meant to mention that the low amount of yards given up to the Raiders this year is the only thing not making the 2009 numbers even worse, but considering we gave up so many to them in the numbers last year, I considered it a wash.]
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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I don't know why I can't indent without it creating a quote box, but I am not willing to fight the editor program tonight.
What about the twinkie?
"All praise Chiefus."
by DThomasReigns on Oct 4, 2009 8:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Neither am I!
Still a great post rec’d.
by Joel Thorman on Oct 4, 2009 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, Joel
What about the twinkie?
"All praise Chiefus."
by DThomasReigns on Oct 4, 2009 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Dont care if you have buddy ryan coaching up the Defense
When your offense goes 3 and out ever time there is no way you can get rest and expect to stop anyone. Also we dont have anywhere close to the players to even pull off the scheme we are trying to play we need better players. case closed
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Oct 4, 2009 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not just rest. It's also time to cook somethin' up to surprise the opposing offense between series.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 10, 2009 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point on the Defense.
I think thats largely coaching, thats the only difference I can see. In fairness though those two schedules aren’t even comparable as far as difficulty is concerned. Rec’d good post.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Oct 4, 2009 8:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
haha....
this defense is really for real – GenericBrand
Don't Fuccop Succop
by chicks_love_chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 8:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They held us in that game in the first half.
And did the same again today. Flagged though, getting sick of your trolling.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Oct 4, 2009 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You'll be ok sweetheart
Don't Fuccop Succop
by chicks_love_chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well enemies are hard to shake
GB it is fine, just let er go! or coop em with agreeing to a point that Chick believes in :)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Neh just dont engage it anymore.
I’ll just keep flagging it, this site doesn’t need people like this.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Oct 4, 2009 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You and Chick are like brothers
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except I'm way better looking
Don't Fuccop Succop
by chicks_love_chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well what is the prob
GB can be difficult no reason to hound a guy!
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Denver looks alot more aggresive to me ...
Not sure if its the players or coaches or the teams they’re feasting on but like Baltimore and the Jets and teams like that they seem to be doing alot of initiating where we’re reacting.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Oct 4, 2009 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say they have alot better talent on D right?
by vincent2668 on Oct 4, 2009 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some luck against lesser teams and YES better D talent in places
oh and better O talent in places. Oh well we do get two games to prove we have made strides over last year!
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree the teams this year have been better,
but allowing the Eagles to drop 420 yards without their starting QB and starting superstar RB is ridiculous.
As is 501 to Flacco and his ancient mummy WR Mason
What about the twinkie?
"All praise Chiefus."
by DThomasReigns on Oct 4, 2009 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
imagine the numbers if the Raiders had a real QB
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Imagine if the Chiefs were 2008 Super Bowl Champions
Well NY would be trolling here :)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you
I’m sick of hearing how the defense is playing well from all the apologists.
by KCMizzou on Oct 4, 2009 8:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
excellent stuff!
and a bit scary as well
on top of the sheer number, we’re 0-4 while Denver, a team that seemed to be in complete disarray, is now 4-0 … yes they may have an easier schedule, so what …
let’s face it: the offense is horrible and the defense is horrible … THIS YEAR, RIGHT NOW
I love Colquitt!
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 8:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
How can you say "so what"
to the vast chasm that is the gap between our schedule, thus far, compared to Denver’s?
Bask in the glory that is Kwame Harris. Poor Alex...
by JHWK on Oct 4, 2009 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rec to DTR
But I will fight when I can find some ammo :)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 8:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
make sure you let it dry out first
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We have more sacks than last year!
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's right! and that makes up for ...
0-4
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, Steve.
Long time no see.
What about the twinkie?
"All praise Chiefus."
by DThomasReigns on Oct 4, 2009 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pendergast's D are more about Turnovers than stopping the O
we have been getting those and some not gotten :(
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 8:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I suppose it would be asking TOO much to ask for both, huh
some turnovers AND stopping the other team’s offense
yeah, that’s what I thought … I think I’d rather see the stops than the turnovers
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would rather get the TO's and let the other team stop themselves on long drives ala Chiefs!
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that too, but that would require an offense, and we don't have one of those, either
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pic'n'pull
has great transmissions and bumpers :)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know ...
It may not be a fumble or an interception, but a three-and-out works just the same. Either way, we wind up with the ball and an opportunity to score. Maybe we should focus a little less on the turnovers and a little more on keeping them from marching down the field every damn time they get the ball.
by JacinB on Oct 5, 2009 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey come on
The defense is improved. You said it yourself! This defense is a whole yard better than it was at this point last year. And football is a game of inches, right? A yard has THIRTY-SIX INCHES in it!
QED
by Soria's Unibrow on Oct 4, 2009 8:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
So for the last several years the defense has not been good
We have gone through several d-coordinators and schemes. I think that is a pretty clear sign that points to talent and lack of playmakers rather than coaching.
by vincent2668 on Oct 4, 2009 8:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
no, we've had Gunther Cunningham for the last few years (until this year)
and considering this year’s new GM and new HC have brought in their own DC and their own scheme and their own 1st Round Draft Pick and their own way of doing everything and they STILL look like crap …
gee, maybe it IS the coaching after all, huh?
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going all the way back to Robinson. You tell me the last time this defense has been good.
by vincent2668 on Oct 4, 2009 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
96 or maybe 97
which has what to do with THIS YEAR and THESE COACHES and THIS SCHEME?
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It means that we have missed on our Dfensive draft picks and free agent signing
for the last 10 years. With the exception of maybe Flowers.
by vincent2668 on Oct 4, 2009 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it possible that Pendergast would love to play 4-3 with the available talent yet Pioli wants a 3-4
is it possible that Pendergast sees that the corners can’t man up consistentle thus the 8 yard cushions.
Is it possible that the D is buying time for the O to get its chit together?
Is it possible that Pendergast has no clue?
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes Steve, it is
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so Page and Hali are busts? and DJ? and you think Brown or whoever is better than Pollard?
and of Jared Allen was a bust, we all know that … and Dorsey, can’t play at all
as far as free agents are concerned, Pioli and Haley have had 9 months … again, you look to blame the past for the present
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, they may be. You cant say they are not.
Page isn’t a great safety, Hali is learning to be a LB (but was not a great DE for a first round pick); You never know what games DJ is going to show up for, and Dorsey has not proven to be worthy of his draft pick. I can go on and on.
by vincent2668 on Oct 4, 2009 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Page is certainly a bust. Hali was up until this year
Yes, considering where he was picked, DJ is a bust. And so is Dorsey to date.
I suggest that Brown is better than Pollard if only because Brown doesn’t bite hard on every play action fake he sees the minute he arrives on the team bus.
The only measure of true success in the NFL is the Vince Lombardi trophy. Anything less is a rationalization.
by sm7600 on Oct 4, 2009 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How the hell is Page a bust?
He’s a decent saftey and he was a 7th round pick. There is no way you can consider Page a bust, period.
Check out my blog on software development:
http://www.turnleafdesign.com/
by Scaryclouds on Oct 4, 2009 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1.
We don’t agree on much, but I agree with you there.
We’ve got plenty of talent on defense. Our Defensive Coordinator(s), however, hasn’t been able to utilize that kind of talent anywhere else they’ve been (there’s a reason why Arizona and the Saints were perennially bad, folks, and it wasn’t their offenses) so I’m not sure why we expected any different here.
by JacinB on Oct 5, 2009 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You cant say there is one defensive player
outside of maybe the corners, that would be starting for a top tier defense.
by vincent2668 on Oct 6, 2009 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Example. When Gunther was here the first time
He was considered a good D-coordinator. But, that was because he had guys like Hasty, DT, Neil Smith, etc. He comes back to a team with not talent and his defense sucks.
Clancy may be the best D-coordinator in the NFL. But, without playmakers and talent, he isn’t going to have a good defense.
by vincent2668 on Oct 4, 2009 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
question for ya, vince ... you know how sometimes a team can be GREAT one year and then SUCK the next?
with the SAME coaches and basically the SAME personnel … how do you explain that happening? talent suddenly changes???
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You tell me a defense that kept the same people
and sucked one year then got really good the next.
by vincent2668 on Oct 4, 2009 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will say coaching can make a slight difference
but overall improvement is based on the talent of the players you have. That goes for offense and defense. Belichick was considered a crappy coach with the Browns. Goes to the Patriots (not so good the first year.) But, guess what, he gets talent and now everyone labels him as one of the best coaches in the NFL.
by vincent2668 on Oct 4, 2009 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree talent is part of it
so is the scheme … as is coaching and expectations … but again, there are multiple instances of either offense or defense being good one year and bad the nexr, or vice versa … with virtually the same personnel, including coaches … so, how do you explain that?
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Player didn't perform at the same level they did before.
Or their skills got worse from the year before. You are making my point. If coaches are so important, then you are saying they must have been the reason that the team was playing good in year 1. So, you think that the next year when the team is not good, that the coaches forgot how to coach?
by vincent2668 on Oct 4, 2009 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
vice versa too
can’t coach and then the players perform
Loaded question Upamtn
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why are you bagging on Vincent
I gave you a four part question and you give me Yes
I can’t answer why a team rises and falls one season to next
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
me either - I'm just saying that the personnel isn't the entire reason we're not doing well
you said yourself that Pendergast goes for turnovers more than stops, which to me seems wrong just on a prima facie basis
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I'm saying it is the major reason.
For a 3-4 to be successful you need the following:
1. Stud NT (We don’t have)
2. Good LBs (We don’t have)
3. Corners that can play press man (We don’t know if they can. All we know is that they were drafted to fit the cover 2 scheme.)
by vincent2668 on Oct 4, 2009 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True, True as far as coverage, and we don't know
Carr played pretty good Man to day.
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is the problem
We have the yo-yo problem, every week a different player looks good but then not the next week. If we can ever get them to all play good the same week we could be very good.
Chiefs set an NFL record,most roster changes in 1 season.
by bringbacktheglory on Oct 4, 2009 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That goes for all teams.
Rarely does every player on any team all play good at the same time. That’s why you try to aquire enough talent, so you can look to someone to step up each week.
by vincent2668 on Oct 4, 2009 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so we have players that fit a different scheme? and a coach who's trying to make round pegs fit into a square hole?
and that’s the reason you blame “talent” instead of coaching and/or scheme used? just making sure I have this right …
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No we need more good players
and better schemes for that personnel.
Coach em up and coach up the coaches
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's another question all together
I’ve asked that before on these post. Is it better in the long run to implement your scheme and suffer with results until you get talented players to fit the system (just to get a few extra wins – go 4-12 instead of 2-14)?
Example would be last year on offense: Run the pistol because our line could not block and our QB could scramble. Or put in the system you want as a coach and suffer with the results until you get the talent to fit what you want to do?
You never see a 3-4 coach go to a team and run the 4-3 until the team get the players to run the 3-4.
I will say the results of this team running a 4-3 last year were not much better than what they are now. So, I would say suffer your lumps until you get the talent you need.
by vincent2668 on Oct 4, 2009 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
anti-upamtn
why does Pioli feel so strong on the 3-4.
A fanshot says if you are good at either (top-5)
then it is a wash on total affect.
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say Pioli is more comfortable
scouting talent to fit the 3-4 scheme. Maybe he doesn’t know what he needs to look for in a player to fit a 4-3. I’ve also heard GMs that run the 3-4 say that it is easier to draft talented LBs then defensive linemen.
by vincent2668 on Oct 4, 2009 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK
but we were closer to assemble the 4-3 talent than 3-4 talent this year
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why not waste this year to do it?
Isn’t this year the year to make the change if you are going to do it.
by vincent2668 on Oct 4, 2009 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
then what we REALLY need to find out is ...
which is a “better” defense: 3-4 or 4-3 …
gentlemen, you have homework to do!
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or...Would Pioli know what
he needs to look for as far as skills go for a 4-3 type of player, since he has only been a part of teams that have always ran a 3-4?
by vincent2668 on Oct 4, 2009 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
New Thread Needed
since we’re running into narrow territory here – need some good “research” on thge respective merits and drawbacks of the two schemes – I nominate DTR to do the dirty work
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nomination rejected
:)
What about the twinkie?
"All praise Chiefus."
by DThomasReigns on Oct 4, 2009 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
damn the rotten luck!
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What
Brodie would lead the Chiefs to a playoff berth!
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
tell that to Haley
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus an Rec
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We Don't need anyone to do the research
It’s all already been done.
I suggest you look up the posts/comments from just after the 2008 season.
Kalopheonix, DT, Steve Chiefs and Texas Chief (toot toot) just to name a FEW – there are many more. No insult to anyone I didn’t list.
There is a LOT of good defensive information on this site.
But the bottom line answer to your question is:
No defensive scheme is inherently “better” than any other. It’s all in the execution. You can site examples of DOMMINATING 34’s, 43’s, 52’s, 53’s, 4’6’s from an alignment stand point as well as Cover2’s, Cover3’s, Press Man’s, Exotic Blitz’s, Man2Mans, Nickel Dime and Quarter Zones etc..from a scheme standpoint.
You need to have the personnel to exectute the scheme, and at the moment the Chiefs are between alignment’s and between base scheme’s in terms of personnel. I can go into a LOT more detail if you like, but it’s not necessary to answer the question of which is “better”
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Oct 9, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently they are even
Now a better question is what D works best as the Wildcat takes over more and more. I think the 4-3 would work better. But Most college teams run 4-3 so the wildcat is attacking what?
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
and all the Hate will be worth it to me and you?
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats what I keep telling myself
as a suffering Royals and Chiefs fan. Suffing through all this losing will only make it that much sweeter when the turnaround finally happens. As long as I’m alive to see it.
by vincent2668 on Oct 4, 2009 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That makes
+2 and upamtn would be all for the Royals and Chiefs turning around so +3
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's just go with the Buddy Ryan 46 Def
That would throw everyone off.
by vincent2668 on Oct 4, 2009 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Buddy is alive
sign him for DC
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hell with that, toss him on the field!
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be awesome
Haley and Ryan on the same sideline.
by vincent2668 on Oct 4, 2009 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see punches being thrown:)
hell who cares about the game I wnat to see if Haley or Ryan gets choked out:)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Buck would say that anyone below Hunt is personnal
I agree, Pendergast needs to play his defense and if it sucks fire him. Just as if I performed an assigned task poorly, replace me with someone that can perform it properly. No sacred cows here in KC, just BBQ :)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i am starting to think you aren't happy unless you are bashing the coaching staff
say what you want but when you take over a defense that was ranked 31st in the league last year, you are only going to see so much improvement until the talent comes up and/or they get used to a totally different scheme. seems unreasonable to expect drastic improvement from a team that set an nfl record for ineptitude to suddenly look great just because you change coaches and/or scheme. i believe they are showing some “flashes” of being better. they aren’t good by any stretch but i would expect them to be better by seasons end. if they aren’t, then you can blame coaching.
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman
by kcguy on Oct 4, 2009 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really ....
It just means we’ve had bad coaches and players for several years.
Don't Fuccop Succop
by chicks_love_chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You cant...
Blame Pendergast for the Defense and not blame Haley for the Offense. I keep hearing..“Pendergast has not improved our D” and then “Our offense is horrible..lack of talent”….
Like it was put to me before….you cant play the game for them all you can do is call the plays.
If Coaching is to blame…..we should fire Bill Muir, Pendergast, Haley, Gibbs, Krumrie, etc. The players are still learning the new schemes on both sides of the ball. They are still young. Our DE are a Rookie and a 2nd year guy. Very young CB’s. You could also say our Safeties are too old and slow. Bad mix of too young and too old.
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Oct 4, 2009 9:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
"... we should fire Bill Muir, Pendergast, Haley, Gibbs, Krumrie, etc"
good idea!
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not saying Haley isn't to blame for the offense at all.
This was more about addressing a lot of the comments over the past few weeks about the “improvement” of the defense.
What about the twinkie?
"All praise Chiefus."
by DThomasReigns on Oct 4, 2009 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I found a bright spot in our last 4 games!
Our drafting position is going to be excellent…….again.
this must kinda be how the faders fans must feel. But I like our QB situation better.
I’m thinking Carlos Dunlap or Russell Okung…but in the infinite wisdom of our GM and Head coach, I am sure we will take a 20th pick corner or safety with our 2nd pick in the draft.
I sure hope that large hadron collider gets built so that we can find the higgs-boson particle and hally-pioli drafting logic.
Ok…maybe im being too harsh on the drafting. Say did anyone see Tyson Jackon or McGee do anything in this game today? Its kinda like I never see Curry on the Seahawks.
by MasterBlaster7 on Oct 4, 2009 9:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Bad teams seem to hide the talent well :)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope.
But I saw Hali. And I saw Dorsey in the backfield a few times. Don’t remember seeing squat from Jackson or McGee, though.
by JacinB on Oct 5, 2009 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saw Hali in the backfield several times too
Unfortunately it was on runninng plays where he over pursued into the backfield and gave up the edge that he is supposed to be containing to turn the play inside.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Oct 9, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have not seen any of the under-tackle that we so much discussed
Was it a myth? or we have progressed beyond the need for training-wheels?
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 9:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I must disagree
Our run d was disgusting last year, but its somewhate better.
Bowe and Wade FTW.
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
by NJChieffan16 on Oct 4, 2009 9:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
So?
Our Run Defense is improved and now we’re giving up 300+ yards through the air, the same amount of yardage overall, and still can’t win a game.
I don’t give a flying crap whether or not our run defense is improved if the results are still the same.
by JacinB on Oct 5, 2009 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Broncos have Nolan...
That’s the biggest reason-dude’s a badass DC.
by idahochieffan on Oct 4, 2009 9:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
not familiar with Broncos personnel this year ... do they have a lot of new people on defense?
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eagles and Giants eased up early since those games were decided or the defensive stats would look worse
Carr Flower Brown Tamba and Mays and Vrabel made some nice plays tho
Haley should make the team watch the Broncos Dallas game to show them how the 3 4 is played
by WarWolf on Oct 4, 2009 9:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He should make em watch it again as true Pro's would to see 2 of our eventual competitors
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the Giants would've eased up...
if Manning didn’t bust his leg
by butchcassidy on Oct 4, 2009 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it just me
or does anyone else think Pendergast looks like the guy that goes “inconceivable!” in the princess bride
Time is a great teacher... unfortunately it kills all it's pupils.
by 808NaNz808 on Oct 4, 2009 10:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Ha!
Totally agree
What about the twinkie?
"All praise Chiefus."
by DThomasReigns on Oct 4, 2009 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's it ... we need the Sicilian Defense!
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I remember the movie correctly,
his defense failed too. :)
What about the twinkie?
"All praise Chiefus."
by DThomasReigns on Oct 4, 2009 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes!!
hahah
Time is a great teacher... unfortunately it kills all it's pupils.
by 808NaNz808 on Oct 5, 2009 3:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
is it just me
or does DTR start a post and disappear?
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 10:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I replied to your first comment
I said, “Long time no see.”
:)
What about the twinkie?
"All praise Chiefus."
by DThomasReigns on Oct 4, 2009 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Made me look:)
I guess I will go look at my 120 posts and 5500 comments now:)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe I should put up a post about how Croyle deserves to start over Cassell?
A Haley ain’t cussing anymore and is going to take a new job as soon as offered.
Pioli has been offered a job with ….
Sorry
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 10:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Defense,offense, special teams
I dont see a whole lot of improvement in any phases of the game…better run defense??….maybe, but then we give up 3rd and long damn near everytime…We rarely get pressure on the QB and that is what eats us up every play….And when we do get pressure, from what i have seen , its because the other team blows an assignment….no pressure on QB means giving up a lot of passing yrds…and who get the bad rap for it?…the d-backs…..offensively it all starts up front too…cant run block or pass protect….special teams, well, just too many mental errors….the one complaint that i have against this regime is that they did not focus on the correct positions…there was a bunch of highly regarded O- Linemen in this past draft….we reached for Jackson, the whole league was surprised when we made that pick, then in the third round what did we do….picked another DE…we are way UNDER the salary cap….WHY?….there was players to be had that we whiffed on…..from either being to tight with the cash, or just for the simple fact that no player wants to play for a losing team… Haleys play calling has TOTALLY sucked…point blank!!….he just said last week that he wants to establish us a a running team…then this week we get on the goal line and he call pass play after pass play….gave LJ the ball one time…and it was a delayed draw play…STUPID!
by KCinAZ on Oct 4, 2009 10:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think our defense is a lot better in terms of talent
but Pendergast’s scheme, mainly the coverage, is pathetic. I did see him playing Flowers and Carr up on the line a few times and it actually worked. Flowers in particular is very good when he plays tight on his man but I’ve noticed him to be pretty useless when he’s in a soft zone. Hopefully, Clancy is noticing this too.
by jonnyu on Oct 4, 2009 10:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree
For me, this is more about Pendy’s scheme than the players.
What about the twinkie?
"All praise Chiefus."
by DThomasReigns on Oct 4, 2009 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
vincent would disagree
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I go with the majority on that one
let’s play some man and see if we need to drat some corners next year.
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The gaping soft zones would prove him otherwise
That and, you know, the actual statistics. :)
What about the twinkie?
"All praise Chiefus."
by DThomasReigns on Oct 4, 2009 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how DARE you use FACT to counter OPINION
I’m telling!
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the problem start up front.
We still get no pressure on the QB. (More then last year) But, for the most part not much. We have 1 D-lineman that is suited for the 3-4 and that is TJ. The biggest missing link to this 3-4 is the stud NT. Every successful 3-4 has that player. Next, we still are missing the big playmaking LBs that the 3-4 requires.
by vincent2668 on Oct 4, 2009 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
again where is that awesome 3-4 under that would fit our personnel.
Why are we not at least putting tank and dorsey in position to one-gap occassionally
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the bus came early and it's all under there
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and by the way...
i have supported this team since the 80s…ive been a season ticket holder, a Missouri resident, and a loyal fan…..the product they have put on the field for the last few yrs is unacceptable….i have every right to bash them, talk trash and give my opinions…thats what blog sites and chat rooms are for…so anyone that want to say that im saying something wrong, or being a hater can shove it….i see on here all the time…“if your just gonna bash the coach and players…blah blah blah” thats crap….an opinion is an opinion….i saw on here today, that someone got banned from chatting because he only had negative things to say…..when the chiefs do negative things the chiefs deserve to have negative things said about them…period!
by KCinAZ on Oct 4, 2009 10:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
and who's saying you don't have the right to bash them?
nobody’s arguing with you … they kinda suck right now, we know … honest, we do
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's all in the way of bashing
Bash away :) Vent we all do!
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i was commenting on some of the things said earlier in the thread and on a different thread today
by KCinAZ on Oct 4, 2009 10:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
you don't get banned for bashing the team or coaches
you can and do get banned for bashing other posters – you can argue a point, but keep it civil (especially when you bash vincent)
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bashing upamtn (I just love to type that)
is free and totally AP approved!
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
where's UCrawford when I need him!
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, with the chiefs this yr...
you cant really disagree with anything that someone says when they are bashing them…it can all be proven…lol….
by KCinAZ on Oct 4, 2009 10:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
sure you can
i disagree with a lot of things … we all do, that’s part of the beauty of being AP-sh|t
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sometimes the GM's,Coaches and Players suck.
But the Chiefs are always #1
Chiefs set an NFL record,most roster changes in 1 season.
by bringbacktheglory on Oct 4, 2009 10:40 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
well said!
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rec
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
absolutely
"There are few secrets in football. So execute." ~Coach Stram
"I think it's the fans. The place is crazy. It's a good crazy, if you're Kansas City." ~Coach Schottenheimer
by Bad Medicine on Oct 5, 2009 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
HAHAHA
This guy said we are “0-4 but in rebuilding mode” and “The Raiders are the Raiders.” I felt good after that.
Bowe and Wade FTW.
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
by NJChieffan16 on Oct 4, 2009 10:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes the cahargers lost.
Chiefs set an NFL record,most roster changes in 1 season.
by bringbacktheglory on Oct 4, 2009 10:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Chargers*
Chiefs set an NFL record,most roster changes in 1 season.
by bringbacktheglory on Oct 4, 2009 10:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Lions are hosting the Steelers next week. Interesting...
The Giants host the Raiders. Thats gonna be funny.
Bowe and Wade FTW.
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
by NJChieffan16 on Oct 4, 2009 10:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Did we piss of the Giants enough to take it out on the Raiders :)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL I hope so
They were probably mad that Manning couldnt score some more so Manning wants to put up 40 next week.
Bowe and Wade FTW.
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
by NJChieffan16 on Oct 4, 2009 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just hope that nobody hurt Russell. I would like for him to stay in the Line-up
as long as possible.
by vincent2668 on Oct 4, 2009 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Russell is such a hot dog
or wants to eat a Hot Dog
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you hear the Collinsworth
What happened to Pitt D? They were the best in all D catagories last year. Now that Troy Polamalu has been out, they are just not the same.
How could that be? Great Pitt Def coaching staff loses a talented player and now they are not as good? Coahes must suck.
by vincent2668 on Oct 4, 2009 10:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Somethin tells me Ravens-Ray Lewis=not the same Raven D
Bowe and Wade FTW.
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
by NJChieffan16 on Oct 4, 2009 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They are
definitely not the same D so far this year, without Rex Ryan & Bart Scott!
by ttownmikey on Oct 4, 2009 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We went from the 15th defense in 2007 to 30th in 2008
When we traded JA
Chiefs set an NFL record,most roster changes in 1 season.
by bringbacktheglory on Oct 4, 2009 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It really was.
JARED ALLEN NOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Bowe and Wade FTW.
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
by NJChieffan16 on Oct 4, 2009 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
whatever happened to all the guys who said, in defense of Haley ...
“the players need to just play the game and do as they’re told” … why is it that applies to those on our current roster but not to guys like … oh, let’s say Jared Allen and/or TonyG
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Big difference between Jared and Tony
Jared’s likely to be playing for a lot of years. Tony may play 2 or 3 more, but if we didn’t trade him he may have been 1 and done. Plus Carl pissed Jared off enough that the only way he would have signed him would probably been for a lot more than what the Vikes did.
by Big Chief on Oct 4, 2009 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it's not it's close
only competitor that comes to mind was trading Curly Culp.
by Big Chief on Oct 4, 2009 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, with the same D-Coordinator
we fall 15 spots, just by losing a talented pro-bowl player. Doesn’t this say something about the value of talent over coaching.
by vincent2668 on Oct 4, 2009 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it might, except that the revolving door of players, both offense and defense, had made not a bit of difference this year
with the same coaches, of course
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying that the players we have brought in are any better then what we let go
by vincent2668 on Oct 4, 2009 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
then why do they bother?
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Need to ask them.
My argument has been strickly on the value of talent over coaching. I have not been here to defend the moves they have made. To me it seems they have identified the talent sucks and they want to see if they can get lucky and hit on something.
by vincent2668 on Oct 4, 2009 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are arguements for both sides
People say the Chargers have a lot of talent but the coaches suck.
Chiefs set an NFL record,most roster changes in 1 season.
by bringbacktheglory on Oct 4, 2009 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm banking on it.
Norv will blow it, McDaniels will blow it, Cable will go out.
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They have no running backs.
Sproles cant be an everydown back and Tomlinson is washed up. They made the mistake of letting Turner go and keeping Tomlinson.
by vincent2668 on Oct 4, 2009 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And they had to sign and ex Chief (Boone) for the D-line
What does that say about their talent
by vincent2668 on Oct 4, 2009 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't just talking about this year.
Chiefs set an NFL record,most roster changes in 1 season.
by bringbacktheglory on Oct 5, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dear Scott,
“Holla at ya BOWIE!!!”
Romeo
by ill_spec on Oct 4, 2009 10:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Seriously
His hip has to be recovered enough to come in now. Get Romeo’s ass in here, pronto!
What about the twinkie?
"All praise Chiefus."
by DThomasReigns on Oct 4, 2009 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Screw Crennel
…but then again…the Browns just suck period…maybe he is an ok coach after all.
Bowe and Wade FTW.
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
by NJChieffan16 on Oct 4, 2009 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was a great D Coordinator
What about the twinkie?
"All praise Chiefus."
by DThomasReigns on Oct 4, 2009 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Even if he’s only a consultant I bet the D gets better.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Oct 4, 2009 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I better get my Bryants order in before Romeo gets here:)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still question that
how much of the defensive scheme was really his vs. Hoodie? I think that’s one reason Romeo was such a flop. His Browns defenses were bad.
by Big Chief on Oct 4, 2009 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I'm talkin' about!
I think Romeo is exactly what we need here.
by idahochieffan on Oct 4, 2009 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We could sign the other Ryan brother right now!
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The lack of Rec's makes Patrick Allen cry.
I had to do math for this post…do you hear me?! MATH…on a Sunday…actually my calculator did the actual computations, but still.
MATH = Rec. Gaww.
j/k :)
What about the twinkie?
"All praise Chiefus."
by DThomasReigns on Oct 4, 2009 11:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
ok, someone go give PA some recs!
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 4, 2009 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lol...noes!
What about the twinkie?
"All praise Chiefus."
by DThomasReigns on Oct 4, 2009 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
PA -Shameless rec whore
Me – Shamelesser
What about the twinkie?
"All praise Chiefus."
by DThomasReigns on Oct 4, 2009 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rec
for DTR doing math on Saturday since he posted pre midnight East coast thus Math skills are lacking
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pre-midnight is still Sunday
What about the twinkie?
"All praise Chiefus."
by DThomasReigns on Oct 4, 2009 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh Im
Bad I already rec’d DTR
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Wait!!"
“Gaping holes in the defense?”
“Soft zones?”
“Questionable timing for blitzes?”
“Undisciplined defensive players?”
“Draws and dive plays that go for 30+ yds?”
“Are you guys talking about me? Look!!! I haven’t been here since 2003 it’s not my fault, why am I getting blamed for this? This is ridiculous!! I know that a chain link fence could have played better defense but I’ve moved on!! Well you know what? You guys can just go f…………huh? You’re talking about Pendergast??? Well….ummmm….never mind.”
by ill_spec on Oct 4, 2009 11:32 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Can't believe he got HC gigs in college either
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 11:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My favorite line from him after every game was
If you take away the three 60 yard runs we gave up, we only allowed 60 yards rushing. So I would say our d played pretty good today.
by vincent2668 on Oct 4, 2009 11:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really want to play devils advocate...
but I got nothing.
How does the second half defense compare to the first half defense?
Desperately hoping for Desperate Measures
by averagegatsby on Oct 4, 2009 11:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
uh, they both equally suck?
or they both equally can improve!
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 11:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, gatsby
I am about to go to bed, but here is just a very dirty comparison.
Considering 2009 KC D allowed 1,516 yds (818 in the 1st half) through 4 games and 2008 KC D allowed 1,517 yds (728 in the 1st half), the 2009 KC D has given up 698 yds in the 2nd half total and the 2008 KC D has allowed 789 yds.
However, Eagles and Giants let off the throttle in 2nd half of both games this year.
What about the twinkie?
"All praise Chiefus."
by DThomasReigns on Oct 4, 2009 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A riddle me this?
statistical noise in a small sample.
Now how many sacks, Turnovers, qb pressures, TD’s allowed, 3rd down conversions.
Yards allowed don’t make points.
Good night DTR :)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 11:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What Denver has done in a single year...
is really making me change the way I think about defenses. I may buy a subscription to Football Outsiders just so I can get their point of attack ratings.
Desperately hoping for Desperate Measures
by averagegatsby on Oct 5, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im not convinced....
Which is weird coming from a baseball stat nerd. Im in between class and work, but maybe I will do some “analysis” myself some time this week. But Im curious how the run and pass defense have fared independently and how the points look.
Also last year was kind of a blur wasn’t Colquitt hurt for a period of time last year? If so does the starting position and time of possession compare to last year? I kinda think I want to tackle this myself if you dont have time to do it, but I wont be able to do it till probably Thursday. And if you get really squirrelly about it you could even compare the Chiefs average yards allowed by each opponent compared to how they did against everyone else.
It could be just that my eyes are deceiving me, but it really seems to my amateur eye that we are stiffer against the run than last year, of course that would mean that our secondary is regressing a little.
Desperately hoping for Desperate Measures
by averagegatsby on Oct 5, 2009 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We are significantly better at run D
you can see my post below for the details. While I agree with DTR and his concern about Pendergast, I don’t think you can say there hasn’t been some improvement. I believe the stopping the run is the first step in creating a solid D. We couldn’t do it last year. In game 2 of last year Oakland tagged us for 300 yards rushing – that’s just in the one game! The only game we kept the opponent under 100 yards in the first 4 games last year was against Denver, which we won with the O controlling the ball by running LJ – but it was barely under – we gave up 94 yards.
I suspect the problems we’re having, aside from fatigue, is our LBs and Safeties are still making mistakes. I think our D line and CBs are doing their jobs.
by Big Chief on Oct 5, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly....
I think the problem is the LB’s, more so than anything else I dont think they are athletic at all (besides DJ, but he obviously is doing something wrong or he would be playing). Mays is straight line fast and hard hitting but he can’t cover anybody. We get killed in the middle of the field too.
I think if we could get a little more pressure on a QB our CB’s would be better, because then they could play more press coverage, but since most QB’s get all the time in the world to throw, playing press would be suicide.
Desperately hoping for Desperate Measures
by averagegatsby on Oct 5, 2009 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Caption This?
Coach, Paper or plastic?
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 4, 2009 11:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Blah Blah Blah
Same thing day in day out.
“We suck. Have you heard we suck? Because we suck. Man do we suck. Let’s judge a first year head coach for a first year GM in a rebuilding year heading in an entirely new direction on results and not individual play. Let’s just put numbers out there and confirm they all suck THEY SUCK! IN CONCLUSION, SUCK SUCK SUCK.”
DThomas, I see what you’re getting at here, but it’s still judging the performance of this squad on the same level you’d judge a playoff team. That’s not the scale.
Dorsey got pressure today. he’s improving every week.
We all thought Tamba Hali was a complete waste. Turns out, he’s turning into a pretty good rush end.
Brandon Flowers held on to the freaking pick today. He’s cost us scores in previous weeks because of that.
Brandon Carr had a phenomenal day.
Jared Page was his usual spotty self, but did get robbed on the illegal contact.
These are what we should be looking at. Is Mays improving on reading the screen? Is Vrabel still physically able to get into position? Where the hell is DJ? Is DaJuan Morgan ever going to see the light of day?
These are the questions we should be asking, not “Is the Chiefs defense good? No! Therefore, they suck and should all be fired! RABBLERABBLERABBLE”
There’s no excuse for the Eagles game. But today that defense was put in an impossible position, facing short fields continously after 3 and outs. They played well against the Raiders until Jamarcus threw that 3rd down completion out of his ass, and teams are getting a ton of rushing yardage in the second half after they’ve been worn down.
Now, do those excuses mean the Chiefs defense is good?NO. They’re terrible! But at least they’ve shown up and have done their job to a decent degree and are improving.
Focusing on trashing the defense isn’t just beating a dead horse. It’s beating a dead horse that can’t even be processed into glue.
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Oct 4, 2009 11:56 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Come on, MAWK
I think you might need to step back a bit. Point out another time I have said we sucked this year.
If we are giving up more points and yards, but have 20 sacks in a game, than the defense is still not better.
I never mentioned anyone should be fired. The only “RABBLERABBLERABBLE” is your overreacting to everything like you did all day in the game threads by jumping on everyone that didn’t agree with you, and again here.
What about the twinkie?
"All praise Chiefus."
by DThomasReigns on Oct 5, 2009 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying the defense is better
and I’m sorry for putting words in your mouth. I’m just overwhelmed with the negativity lately. It’s like everyone expected we would suddenly be worlds better this season, that we would be competing for playoffs. That magically we’d have more talent and guys’ bad technique would suddenly be solved.
Your point’s well taken. The entire defensive performance has not improved over last year’s entire defensive performance.
I’m not the only one sick of the negativity.
And if you’re not suggesting we suck, and you’re not suggesting we fire anyone, what are you pointing out here?
“I’m not saying we should change anything, but by the way, we are just as terrible as we were last year if you make a bunch of arbitrary reassessments of the strengths of teams (an 8-8 team that didn’t make the playoffs is a playoff team! An 11-5 team that didn’t make the playoffs is a playoff team!) and you look only at the total numbers.”
All kidding aside, though, what conclusion are you trying to get people to reach? Other than, you know, like I said, we suck?
One final note. The record low numbers of sacks last year constituted an inability to get to the QB. That meant the QBs could pass, which we couldn’t cover, and then we couldn’t tackle. We’re getting pressure this year. It’s a start. That’s all I’m saying. It’s a start.
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Oct 5, 2009 12:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One thing to remember Matt is
most of the people that are getting you so mad are people that have joined this site in the last month or two. They are the ones making most of those comments and ridiculous post.
Plus there is a difference between someone just stating that we suck, and doing a comparison from last year to this year with stats to back it up.
Chiefs set an NFL record,most roster changes in 1 season.
by bringbacktheglory on Oct 5, 2009 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just sayin....
A team is allowed/expected to underperform in the first few years of re-building. I just expected the D to be a little further than they are right now. Taking bad angles, not wrapping up on tackles and being out of position are basic errors that should be eliminated with the proper coaching. We brought in a DC that had a underwhelming career thus far and it seems he will continue his underwhelming ways until he quits or gets replaced. I’m not judging the team by where they are right now, that would be unfair, but I think we hired a DC who isn’t very good and isn’t capable of developing our young talent.
by ill_spec on Oct 5, 2009 12:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good post DTR
Thanks for digging up the stats to put together this post (but calculators are for suckers). I’ve had and continue to have concerns about Pendergast, too. But I’m not willing to condemn him yet. I thought we were showing some improvement in two areas and your work to provide stats made me put in the effort to see if my suspicions are correct. The numbers do seem to indicate some improvement.
1 – We are improved in rushing D. We gave up 706 yards in rushing thru the first 4 games last year, and “only” 514 yards this year. That’s a 27% reduction (I used Excel). We gave up over 100 yards in 3 of those games last year vs. 2 this year. I don’t know how many times Gunther used to say “we have to stop the run first”, but every week teams ran like they were playing against a girl’s field hockey team. This year they’ve done very good in two games and at have at least showed improvement year over year.
2 – We are getting more sacks. 5 so far this year vs. 3 last year. One reason we had so few sacks last year was because we couldn’t stop the run. If you don’t stop the run you don’t the the long yardage situations that set you up for sacks. If we can continue to stop the run, our sack rate should continue to improve. Lord knows we have a lot of improvement still to make, but there are some signs of life there.
I don’t think you can downplay the difference in coming in with a new scheme. The Denver comparison is hardly valid since they’ve played a completely different level of competition. Maybe I’m wrong and Cleveland and Cincy really are great. But I don’t think so. This is also the first time I’ve heard the claim their players were less suited for the 3-4 than ours, but then I haven’t been as concerned with them as with us.
I’m still really concerned about this D and I think the basis of it’s problems are less clear than for the O. But I think that running and stopping the run is often as much about attitude as scheme. If they can get that mindset I think they’ll be a tougher team and more likely to win.
I’m still taking a wait and see attitude. It’s a long season.
by Big Chief on Oct 5, 2009 12:30 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
We’re not very talented on D in the front 7 at all, period. All this misplaced hope came from training camp when a bad D played against a bad O-line in training camp and we thought it was promising. We have a defensive coordinator that got fired last year because his side of the ball was terrible. Honestly anyone who thinks otherwise is in denial. I don’t know if any of these points were brought up before, i didn’t read through all the posts.
by RamX21 on Oct 5, 2009 12:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The Problem With Our Defense Is Our Offensive Line!
That is it… We need to score some points… And early on in the game, not at the end. Give these guys some situations to play defense with a lead or in a competitive situation…
by Skrappy on Oct 5, 2009 1:03 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Good stuff DTR
I am not a huge Brian Dawkins fans but you see what he has done for the Donkeys! He is a fearless intimidator! Like I have said before our personnel is mediocre at best! We have no players that strike fear on either side of the ball, and we dont play as a team. The result….0-4! Get some real studs in here! PLEASE!
And find a damn returner…wtf! Oh and Rec!
I want K.C. Wolfs' job!
by Jonezin4KC on Oct 5, 2009 8:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree skrappy
The problem is our o line. More specifically, Goff and the TE. I said years ago before our all star line (Roaf, Shields, etc) got old that we did not have anyone behind them. We should have been drafting OL while we had a hall of fame OL to tutor. And I keep hearing everyone talking about how we blew it in free agency…….there were not a lot of good free agents. Peppers was the best, but he does not fit our scheme and would have cost a ton. Were not going to fix this team in one year. I thought that we all knew that. In case we havent noticed, this is a scouting year for Haley. He is trying to see who stays and who goes, because many of our players will be gone. The Oline sharpens the Dline. You think that going against Willie Roaf in practice everyday didnt help Jared Allen? And as for Denver………are you kidding me? Have we forgotten how good Denver was last year? They had one of the best OL in the league last year. They were a better team than the Chargers, they just blew it. Be patient. The new brass inherited a horrible team talent wise. We have to give them time. Outside of the new players, the only players I see staying are Dbowe, Albert, Page, and possibly Carr, DJ, and Dorsey. Other than that, everyone else is on the block I think. That is around 40 players.
by Enite on Oct 5, 2009 9:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Dallas next week
I’m guessing the over/under on yards given up there is 450. I’m just stumped on how many receivers or RBs will be over 100. I’m leaning toward Jason Witten and Marion Barber but there could be more.
by Ren on Oct 5, 2009 9:33 AM CDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
both on my fantasy team for work.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Oct 5, 2009 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's a smart play
I’m picking up pretty much anyone available who plays TB, Chiefs, and the Raiders. I’m getting solid points that way. I’m going with both Barber and Choice and Crayton .
by Ren on Oct 5, 2009 9:50 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Rec'd DTR
I see that you will be my anti-hero in our defensive statistic posts.
…uhhh…I’ll make one when there’s a “hero” side to convey. =)
"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris
by KaloPhoenix on Oct 5, 2009 9:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Your stats are nice, but IMO I still say the defense is pressing to the point they know they cannot make mistakes due to the fact the offense cannot do anything.
by Tooner on Oct 5, 2009 10:49 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
WHY OH WHY
do people continuously use the exception to the rule as the norm ofr the rule?
Yes Denver has done a good job in their transition from a 4-3 to a 3-4. That doesn’t mean it is normal and that every team should expect the same results or be held to the same standard.
by ChiefsFan79 on Oct 5, 2009 11:29 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Correct
But is anyone out there happy with no result? Please
I want K.C. Wolfs' job!
by Jonezin4KC on Oct 5, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice post DTR,
however I’m not much a stat person as there are way too many variables to take them all into account & they all factor into the final result: ie… weather, level of competition, injuries, pre-game meal, home vs. away, etc…
I have to go on what my feeble memory & failing eyesight are telling me:
This years version of the Chiefs D seems to be doing much better on 1st & 2nd downs then what last years version did. Last year, it seemed like it was 3rd & 2 or 3 if it even got to 3rd down, while this year it seems to be consistently 3rd & 7 or longer. Our 3rd down D needs to toughen up with more blitzes & tighter coverage or more focus or something (I don’t claim to be a guru so I don’t know)!
To me that equates to the defense being 67% better (1st & 2nd downs but not 3rd!). I’m sure some of you statisticians will shoot me out of the water but it just seems to me that if we would (could & should) “bear” down on 3rd downs, this defense would start to look a lot better than what they’ve appeared thus far.
by ttownmikey on Oct 5, 2009 2:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I would like to know...
how many of the 3rd downs this year resulted in a first down because the other team attacked the middle of the field via the pass.
Bewsaf
by Bewsaf on Oct 6, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd bet it
is a highly significant percentage of the time, which has me leaning towards the “Taylor Mays / Eric Berry with the 1st pick” crowd on here who seem to be gathering momentum.
by ttownmikey on Oct 6, 2009 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate you.
Don't forget to be an AP-vangelist...Tell A Friend...
by woodman212 on Oct 5, 2009 11:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hate you too
:)
What about the twinkie?
"All praise Chiefus."
by DThomasReigns on Oct 6, 2009 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Awwwwwww....
Go work…so lazy
Don't forget to be an AP-vangelist...Tell A Friend...
by woodman212 on Oct 6, 2009 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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