Dez Bryant - Why I think he will be our #1 pick
by wilson123 on Oct 29, 2009 11:21 AM CDT
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It would be building a strength for this team where they would have an advantage over most teams cornerbacks they would be playing by having 2 #1 type receivers. No one else we draft would give us that. WR's are usually instant gratification picks which we really need given the Dorseys and Jacksons that we have been drafting and having to wait for their production. It would give Todd Haley a very similar offense to what he had in AZ with these receivers and a game manger at QB. I really think he will be the pick. Tyson Jackson was a Pioli pick on defense. Now, Todd Haley is going to want a toy on offense and I think Dez Bryant will fit the bill.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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Except...
History says taking a receiver in the top ten is a terrible move.
by Joel Thorman on Oct 29, 2009 11:29 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
The top
three receivers in the NFL (Fitzgerald, A. Johnson, C. Johnson) were top 10 picks. They were top 3 picks.
What about the other 22 receivers picked in the top 10 since 1989?
by Joel Thorman on Oct 29, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Rec'd
I didn’t have the stat, but was thinking the same thing.
by chrisclark_dfw on Oct 29, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd throw Darius Heyword Bey and possibly Crabtree in that list too
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by craig in calgary on Oct 29, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, those weren't included
And they’re not getting off to great starts.
by Joel Thorman on Oct 29, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions
Slow start, but Crabtree's looking like the real deal.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
I still think jury is still out on both...
Jabba the Hut being QB doesnt help us access Hey-Bey’s skills and Crabtree only played one game so far…
don't make me laugh
Heyword Bey should not of got drafted in the top 20. Al Davis way reaching with a 100 foot pole. I would count Crabtree I think he will live up to his draft status.
Ahh, but the key question is
Do you think he’ll live up to his real draft status or the draft status he THINKS he should have had?!
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
I read that, but I don't get it
Yea, there were some busts, but there are some awesome receivers on that list. I’d take that gamble.
"The road to Easy Street goes through the sewer."
--John Madden
Some were good receivers
But if you’ll notice in the linked article those players never significantly contributed to their team on good seasons.
by Joel Thorman on Oct 29, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
With the state of the team in these past years, I wouldn't...
Lions drafted WR over and over again didn’t they? Did that work for them?
Let's be fair
The Lions failed at pretty much anything they did. Some guys, even a couple of early WR picks (Roy Williams and Calvin Johnson), performed extremely well, but the franchise as a whole was an abortion for the entire Matt Millen era. Now there’s a Millen protege running the show, so…well, it’s hard to say what comes next.
But the fact is that whatever the Lions’ draft strategy ended up being, the organizational dysfunction undermined what might otherwise have been a valid draft approach.
by burntorangehorn on Oct 29, 2009 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought you said we were trading our #1 pick for Richard Seymore?
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by craig in calgary on Oct 29, 2009 11:30 AM CDT reply actions
So
if in two years Tyson Jackson is still performing the way he is now, you would still think that trading our #1 pick for Seymour would have been a bad move?
Yes.
Unless it was wasted on Dez Bryant…then it would have been a good move.
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by craig in calgary on Oct 29, 2009 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions
I just don't see what's so appealing
About a receiver that will miss the majority of a college season before he comes to the NFL Draft. He appears to be a good player but that’s a risky move IMO.
He'd be great in a Chief's jersey...
if he falls to the second round.
by chrisclark_dfw on Oct 29, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
that's what I'm talking about
WR in the 2nd is a good, calculated risk
WR in the first ignores history and team needs, and Pioli/Haley probably wouldn’t do it
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
This is not true
WR’s are usually instant gratification picks which we really need given the Dorseys and Jacksons that we have been drafting and having to wait for their production.
History has shown pretty clearly that the vast majority of receivers take a couple of years before they play at a high rate.
That’s why a lot of us are excited about Dwayne Bowe. He lived up to expectations pretty quickly in terms of yardage and catches.
AND made Fatman Russel look like an All-Star
"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius, in contrary to Glenn Dorsey lining up in the 2-tech
I like Bryant a ton, but I don’t think he’ll be a top-five pick, where KC will likely be drafting. I would guess that KC’s pick would probably be more focused on a nose tackle, linebacker, or offensive tackle long before going for a receiver that early.
What would really get me going, though, would be if they’d take Eric Berry. He’s a Heisman candidate as a safety, for crying out loud.
by burntorangehorn on Oct 29, 2009 11:48 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Now you're talkin'.
I’m not too keen on a LB in the 1st, myself.
To me, though, it’s all about the individual. In the 1st round, these are ALL exceptions to ‘most every rule, and you just have to be good at assessing the risks. All the misses @ WR could be for a number of reasons other than that they’re a bad risk. I think organizations simply do a poor job of talent and psychological evals. Others might have shortcomings in other positions or position groups, for instance, Calvin Johnson is Pro Bowl caliber, but hasn’t had as many opportunities as his talents would allow. And what about Joe Horn, who just blew by anybody who tried to cover him, but never became a real weapon until he went to a team that knew what to do with him?
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
Two words...
Eric Berry
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
IMO when I watch Eric Berry play
He plays much more like Ed Reed than Troy P
by BAMFSpecialOps on Oct 29, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions
yep!
like Ed Reed… he looks like EVERY INT is going to the house for 6
And EVERY ball thrown in the secondary is HIS for the taking
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
#1 WR
I actually have always seen Bowe as more of a second receiver, and I would be much more optimistic about his production if he were in that role. So while I do not support the idea of taking Bryant in the top five, I do think it’d make sense to at least consider a receiver in the early rounds, especially if a trade into the mid-1st for a top receiving talent.
I guess another thing needs to be said about Bryant: he’s a very similar player to Bowe, with unspectacular speed, but good size and a mind for physical play. His hands are better, although like Bowe, he needs a little help on routes.
Honestly, I’d rather grab Marshawn Gilyard, D. Briscoe, DeMaryus Thomas, or even Damian Williams outside the top 15 picks. Some of those guys could move up to the mid-late 1st, some will fall to the fourth, but they’re all talented guys with some different things they bring to the table.
by burntorangehorn on Oct 29, 2009 12:00 PM CDT reply actions
We don't need a prototypical #1 WR
Look at the Trent Green years. Eddie Kennison and Johnnie Freaking Morton were our WR’s.
I think that Bowe and a combintation of Bradley/Wade/Long will be adequate.
Unless a feakinsh WR talent drops to the 4th round (Like Brandon Marshall did) I don’t want a WR picked at all and top 3 rounds are out of the question. Picking up a stud WR is a luxury deep teams without major holes have….at this point I wouldn’t consider the Chiefs one of these teams.
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by craig in calgary on Oct 29, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Morton never produced for KC, ever
Those were the WRs, sure, but you’re omitting the fact that Gonzalez played the role of #1, and he was damn good at it. That offense would’ve been nothing without Gonzo.
by burntorangehorn on Oct 29, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions
And Kennison brought JUST enough vertical to round out the offense.
But defenses, even in those days, weren’t particularly concerned about KC WRs getting behind ’em. If you want a PLAYOFF-WINNING team, you need that #1 WR, who can stretch the field.
OTOH, Chiefs could do a lot more good short-term by fixing the OL, in general, and the running part of it, in particular. That being said, the current squad would probably be more productive following what the Steelers are doing, allowing their QB to get into space and make some plays, and buy his WRs more time to get open. I still don’t think Bowe and Cassel are anywhere near being on the same page in terms of Bowe helping-out when Cassel’s on the move. Heck, I don’t think Bowe’s much good at running routes for Cassel when he’s trying to get the ball out quickly.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
We also had one of the best running offenses in football for most of those years.
"The spirit, the will to win, and the will to excel are the things that endure. These qualities are so much more important than the events that occur." - Vince Lombardi
BINGO
So linstead of drafting WR’s…build the O-Line and develop a running game.
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by craig in calgary on Oct 29, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I thought it was obvious...
…but whether this team’s offensive identity is going to focus on the run or the pass, the line is a top priority. But that can be addressed with the top pick, and then another pick (mid-late 1st, if acquired via trade, or early 2nd) can be used on a WR.
I’m not sure if you actually thought that I was advocating blowing a top-five pick on a wideout, but I sure don’t.
On the offensive identity issue, I really don’t know which way Pioli’s going to go right now. Obviously Pioli and Haley think Cassel’s going to be good, hence the trade. That, combined with the offensive staff and Haley’s past offensive looks convince me that he wants to be more pass-oriented.
by burntorangehorn on Oct 29, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeppers.
It looks right now like what they’ve been trying to do was with total disregard for what they have.
But I’d rather see an impact DB in the 1st. I think the zone-blocking scheme they’re trying to implement argues for more middle-rounders on o-line, selected for vision and football intelligence. This is relatively foreign to me. I’m just a “get a guy who wins all day long one-on-one” fan. Nice analysis on this this week, reaching the conclusion that Waters and Smith were about the only two guys who understand what they want to accomplish and how to accomplish it.
The more I think about it, the more I think that LT might be exception to this, even as I recall TE Matt Lepsis being converted to LT by Denver and Denver rolling to a championship…
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
Biuld the O-line
and draft a WR in 2011
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 29, 2009 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
b/c if we draft a WR, Cassel still doesnt have the time to throw him the ball either w/ our OL and our defense will still be giving up the big plays.
When deep space exploration ramps up, it'll be the corporations that name everything, the IBM Stellar Sphere, the Microsoft Galaxy, Planet Starbucks.
I'd be fine with 9-7 or 10-6 and competiting for the divsion title
You need pesky WRs, like Lance Long, who give you a window QUICKLY.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
burntorangehorn is right about one thing
IF the Chiefs draft a WR in the first 3 rounds, he had better be a burner that can return punts.
otherwise, build the O Line, and go with Bowe, Bradley, Wade, Long, Lawrence…
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
I like the burner. Not necessarily to return punts.
I’d rather have a burner who’s a bit of a reach @ WR. Somebody built a little lower to the ground, like Cribbs or Hester. At least for KR.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
yeah, agreed about KR
but, Charles MAY be the guy there (ala Leon Washington, pre broken ankle)
at PR, you need that shifty quickness, and smaller is ok…
Lawrence and Long are still candidates to take the return jobs next year
I think a “deShawn Jackson” kind of player would be nice to have at WR
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
Nice points as usual, burntorangehorn.
But the responses are pretty good, too. Prob’ly more hay to be made by improving the o-line at this point, and, imo, developing a style of play that fits what they have. Let Cassel move around more and don’t try to get the ball out fast all the time in the name of protecting him. He’s more at risk facing defenses that know they can sell out on the blitz because the quick pass is no real danger to them.
Where your #1 WR is most appealing to me is in the Jerry Rice sense, where the 3-step cock-n-fire could still beat somebody down the field. A guy who can make it to a spot just on timing and general principles, like Jerry could, is worth a pair or more of o-linemen. A guy you can’t give cushion to, or he’ll turn the 4-yard pass into 10+ and if you don’t give him cushion, he’s past you in a heartbeat, and the QB can tell pre-snap just how he can beat you with the #1 WR…
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
And I totally agree that Bowe isn't that FAST or a deep threat.
He could be another Keyshawn, easily, but to win championship(s), he needs to be paired up with someone who can push secondaries vertically more than he can.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
2010 NFL Free Agent WR's that come to mind
Steve Breaston, Antonio Bryant (I didn’t see if he got a new deal), Jason Avant, Lee Evans, Domenik Hixon, Vincent Jackson, Michael Jenkins, Mark Clayton, and Kevin Walter. I could easily see Breaston coming here with Haley, and would like to see Walter.
"The spirit, the will to win, and the will to excel are the things that endure. These qualities are so much more important than the events that occur." - Vince Lombardi
We should open the vault for Vincent Jackson
For no other reason, then we don’t have to face him twice a year.
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by craig in calgary on Oct 29, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed....
….as much as I hate SD that guy just flat out produces. Take DBowe and VinnieJacks (kinda sounds Godfather-y) throw in Wade or Long in the slot and that could give defenses a tough time.
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
Vincent Jackson is one of my fav Chargers so far if I had to tolerate one of them...
He’s a smart guy and huge. I think he’s a professional.
Jackson also highlighted KC's shortcomings in the secondary.
He’ll be tough to pry loose, is my guess. Not sure about Breaston. Great as a member of a great corps. I’d be leery of making him a #1.
I really like Hixon, too.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
Only dropped as far as he did in the draft because of the broken leg
He was a burner at Wisky. I don’t think he’s a true #1 either, but he’s so different from Bowe in so many aspects that the complementary pair would make for as good a duo as a true #1 and true #2 normally would.
by burntorangehorn on Oct 31, 2009 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Bryant did get a new deal
I’m open to the idea of one of those guys coming in… but I still don’t believe that WR is the biggest need for this team
get me a: C, RG, S, OLB, ILB, NT and maybe a LG/LT (depending on Albert)
then we can talk about WR
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
Yes I agree
My point was we can pick up a WR in free agency and worry about other key positions in the draft. We definately need to focus on OL with the top pick IMO. LB is another position I would be okay with as the top pick.
"The spirit, the will to win, and the will to excel are the things that endure. These qualities are so much more important than the events that occur." - Vince Lombardi
Good call on Walter...
Seems to be too many holes left to fill in one draft unless we are active in FA.
by chrisclark_dfw on Oct 29, 2009 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I really want Berry to be a Chief
IF he’s not available, I think they should go OL
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
I was all for OL, but after watching Berry a couple of games I hope we get him.
We have to get someone to stop receivers from going off for 150+ yards every week.
exactly
OL in the 2nd and 3rd… Berry in the 1st, I’m a happy Chiefs fan
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
I don't think it matters, as long as those positions are addressed.
Shawn makes a good point about likely FAs for whose services KC could compete.
I’d be interested in a similar listing of LBs.
chrisclark_dfw reminds ME that we’re likely farther than one year away from being where this organization has what it needs to contend.
I think they have a better handle on what their needs are (and they prob’ly don’t see it quite the same as any of us) than they did last offseason. They basically made no bold moves at any position other than QB, and even that move was more conservative than spending the #1 pick on QB.
Personally, until your secondary is dominant, you can never have enough great DBs. Dominating on the perimeter and down the field lets the other 8 or 9 guys spend more of their time worrying about stuff at or behind the LOS. You can nit-pick about a LB’s drop being too deep or too shallow by 11 centimeters, but the greatest KC LB since Willie Lanier was NEVER much of a coverage guy.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
Gotta draft O lineman or Safety in round uno!!!
Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!
I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.
Dont care who we get #1
Just as long as Pioli gets all the draft picks sign in time for training camp. I hate to have a Crabtree NO MATTER what their upside is.
Screw ‘em if they aren’t anxious to get in camp to play with their new teammates.
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Oct 29, 2009 1:39 PM CDT reply actions
maybe we should be looking at agents for the draft picks this year...lol
Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!
I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.
We have so many holes...
I could see anything as a possibility….
Though his character issue that got him suspended certainly does not appeal to any GM…
Don't forget to be an AP-vangelist...Tell A Friend...
Maybe that's the idea?
Uniformly weak across the board, KC achieves the ideal by just taking the best football player on the board at every level.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
Good teams are built from starting at the ball and working out.
Who cares how good the receivers are if Cassel isn’t getting enough time to throw to them.
Name one good team that doesn’t have a good Offensive line and/or good Defensive line.
Desperately hoping for Desperate Measures
Green Bay Packers.
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by craig in calgary on Oct 29, 2009 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Green Bay has a good D-line though
Desperately hoping for Desperate Measures
by averagegatsby on Oct 30, 2009 2:41 AM CDT up reply actions
I was going to say
there are a lot of good teams that don’t have good o-lines or d-lines:
-Saints
-Chargers
-Bengals
-Steelers
-Cardinals
-49ers
-Eagles
-Cowboys
-Falcons
Parts of your list appear to be debatable.
Pittsburgh stands out as one. But they kind of play PA-streetball-style football. Biggest, bestest player @ QB trying to get it done with his feet and through the air, where the blocking, while sub-par by normal NFL standards, nevertheless is pretty finely-tuned to set the QB up for winning plays, at risk to his life and limb, at times.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
The whole idea
of my thread was that it makes sense to take the top WR to build on a potential strength that we do have and providing the most immediate impact in terms of wins next year by giving us a competitive advantage over opponents. We literally have so many holes, we could take someone at any position other than QB.
You dont take the top WR if you're picking in the top 5
Simple as that. Because if you ARE picking in the top 5, you’re most likely going to have more glaring needs than a wr.
Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes; after that, who cares?! He's a mile away and you've got his shoes!
It doesn't matter
If we had 4 of the best WR’s in the league on the team. Cassel doesnt have enough time to throw the damn ball. I cant believe people actually think we should draft Dez Bryant. Last year, I couldnt stand hearing “We should draft Crabtree!”.
We need to fix the OL first and foremost. That is the #1 concern of this team. Protect Cassel. WR’s usually take about 2 seasons to really start coming into their own. DBowe putting up 2000 yards in his first 2 seasons happens rarely. On top of that, the bust rate is EXTREMELY high.
We need OL, NT, and LB before we even THINK about getting a WR.
And your "whole idea" has merit, wilson.
At least in my book.
You want your running game to improve? Have 2 guys on the perimeter who demand a doubleteam. Boom! 7 men in the box is the most the opposition may safely employ, lest the QB be able to read the obvious mismatch just from the formation. And against the corner blitz, just throw to the area where the CB is coming FROM.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
Eric Berry
Wow. Just watched some videos on him and an interview and I just wanna say that I really really like this kid, it looks like he has great character and is always looking to learn. Not to mention the kid can freakin create plays. I would be one happy chiefs fan if we drafted him with our first pick, then getting some o-line then a linebacker.
swish
To me, it's more a matter of how the talent falls.
Too many times have I seen KC go with the best OT remaining, without regard to whether or not the actual talent is worthy. In that vein, I guess I’d be OK with a LB in the 1st round, but it’d have to be because I didn’t think there was anybody at WR, DB, OT, DE that would be good.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
I want Berry
I want Berry, but Dez Bryant is a great player as well.
That thing about Bryant — he is going to want Heyward-Bey/Mike Crabtree money and we aren’t doing that. I also think Okung will be a reach at where we pick and I am not as high on him as others. The OT I want is Ciron Black, who we may be able to get early in the 2nd.
WR is a deep position and we really only need a good #2. Bobby Wade/Lance Long are decent slot receivers.
Everyone talks about WR busts
but it seems that a fair number of top 5 OTs (and just about every other position for that matter) turn out to be busts as well.
If we are picking top 5 then I hope we are able to nab Berry, because he seems like the closest thing to a ‘sure thing’ in the draft…and he happens to play a position we are going to need to fill very soon. If he’s not available then I sure hope we’re in a position that another team wants to trade up to. With the depth in the draft this year those 2nd round players are going to be a lot like 1st rounders in other drafts.
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