Babb: 'I don't think LJ will be cut this week'
by Joel Thorman on Oct 28, 2009 10:53 AM CDT
in 2009 Campaign
65 comments
Count Kent Babb of the Kansas City Star as one of the folks that don't think Kansas City Chiefs RB Larry Johnson will be released this week.
"Considering everything I've heard, and mixing in some logic gathered from the team's "investigation", I don't think LJ will be cut this week," Babb tweets.
He doesn't go into anymore detail on whether he believes the Chiefs will eventually cut LJ but, as he says above, he doesn't think it'll come this week.
Stagdsp points out that Jim Trotter on ESPN2's First Take also thinks LJ will be around for at least another week. Per their report, the Chiefs don't want to set a precedent that players can get out of town just by acting up.
"Being told by a KC source that Larry Johnson will never play for [the] Chiefs again," SI's Trotter tweets. "He's only on [the] team now because KC doesn't want to send [a] message that disgruntled players can force their way out of town by acting up. But LJ is apparently over in KC."
Trotter also reports that the Chiefs may not wait for a league or team issued suspension and then release him because that could result in a fight with the NFLPA.
I can buy this. I think the vast majority of folks think LJ will be released at some point.
There's a report out there that the Chiefs plan to cut LJ this week. However, the website reporting it has no history of breaking news. Rotoworld summed up my thoughts well:
"Make sure to take the claim with a big grain of salt, as this website has no history of breaking news. RealGM.com claims L.J. also had to apologize for using gay slurs last season, and that Johnson will be released before the end of the week. The website may simply be reading tea leaves. Still, we wouldn't be one bit surprised if the "report" turns out to be true."
Bob Gretz, on the other hand, says he expects to see LJ back in a Chiefs uniform this season.
What does it all mean?
It means we're all speculating at this point. I don't think anyone involved in the decision-making process knows exactly what will happen either. I think highly placed team officials have an idea of what they want to do but until the "investigation" is complete, we're in the dark just like everyone else.
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I can imagine a suspension by the league and a suspension by the team, followed by LJ's uniform riding the bench for the remainder of the year
who knows what will happen, we shall see
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 28, 2009 11:06 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
There won't be a league AND a team suspension IMO
One doesn’t want to upstage the other. If the league suspends him for two games, then the Chiefs come and suspend him for another two games then it looks like the team doesn’t think the league’s punishment was harsh enough. They are working together on this.
by Joel Thorman on Oct 28, 2009 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't that what happened last year?
I thought the Chiefs suspended him and then the NFL added a game. No?
I remember Dawson to Taylor, Kenney to Carson, and Blackledge catching the snap in his facemask. Seen it all...
by BinSC on Oct 28, 2009 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly, but the situation was slightly different.
Chiefs suspended him for a game, NFL suspended him for 3 more, presumably with 4 total in mind and acknowledging “time already served.”
So yeah, they could both suspend him, but it’s not likely that he’ll get two separate suspensions that add up to more than 4 games. I’d be surprised if he got more than two total.
See Data Differently.
beyondtheboxscore.com | Twitter: @ justinbopp
by Justin Bopp on Oct 28, 2009 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Chiefs didn't suspend him
They deactivated him. Big difference.
Predictions for 2009:
LJ runs for 1800 yards
Bowe in the pro bowl
Chiefs D finishes in the top 10 in points allowed
Chiefs 10-6
by bonesjackson on Oct 28, 2009 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So he got paid.
See Data Differently.
beyondtheboxscore.com | Twitter: @ justinbopp
by Justin Bopp on Oct 28, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Chiefs never suspended him
They just deactivated him. He still got paid.
by Joel Thorman on Oct 28, 2009 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoops
And if I had read all the way down I would have realized bonesjackson said the same thing.
by Joel Thorman on Oct 28, 2009 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it will be interesting to see how they handle it
the timing is ironic…. right when Kolby is coming back, and a RB decision would have to be made anyway.
they’ve set a precedent that the Chiefs will not keep a player, no matter how talented, if they don’t buy in to the team concept, and don’t conduct themselves in the manner demanded by Haley.
those two factors make me think that he WILL be cut at some point… they are just getting their ducks in a row and exploring all options
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 28, 2009 11:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It seems like
LJ could see the writing on the wall. The frustration of knowing that the game against San Diego might have been his last hurrah before the Chiefs got Kolby back & would have an excess of running backs. 2.7 ypc doesn’t give anyone much job security!
by ttownmikey on Oct 28, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's not going to be cut. And more than likely that rushing record is in the bank - just facing the facts
by chiefnyc on Oct 28, 2009 11:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
odds are he WILL be cut, sooner or later
the question is… do they cut him NOW, or after the season.
either way, I’d bet a lot of money that LJ doesn’t see the field as a Chief in 2010
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 28, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am going to say...
1. He serves a suspension
2. After the suspension he comes back as the 3rd string running back.
3. He does not see the field for some time…and when the point is made, the Chiefs might let him run again.
4a. At the end of the season he gets cut.
4b. If he continues to be a problem while he is the 3rd string rb then the next step will be taken.
5b He gets cut during the season.
Bewsaf
by Bewsaf on Oct 28, 2009 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought that too at first, but
if they are going to cut him at the end of the season, why would they waste roster space now? they could sign another special teams player instead. we already have 3 active RBs and a practice squad RB, so it’s not like we need the depth.
by Vince D on Oct 28, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only reason I can think of...
is to make a point. You cannot get your way and be released just by causing problems.
Bewsaf
by Bewsaf on Oct 28, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The point will be made
and then LJ will play. I doubt they will say anything until they see how things shake out.
Predictions for 2009:
LJ runs for 1800 yards
Bowe in the pro bowl
Chiefs D finishes in the top 10 in points allowed
Chiefs 10-6
by bonesjackson on Oct 28, 2009 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see him on the roster
He said some stuff outta frustation. We all know LJ is the outspoken person out the roster. Were is freedom of speech. He jacked up, move on….It’s a clean slate(remember)
by Arrowhead816 on Oct 28, 2009 11:20 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
?
Freedom of speech doesn’t mean that you can say what ever you want with no repercussions. He isn’t getting arrested for saying something stupid. And being outspoken doen’t give you an excuse to be so ignorant.
by dakotadave on Oct 28, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep. We're in the realm of hate speech.
Beyond that, freedom of speech doesn’t erase the right for companies to suspend/fire workers that put their business in a bad light.
See Data Differently.
beyondtheboxscore.com | Twitter: @ justinbopp
by Justin Bopp on Oct 28, 2009 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not a lawyer but...
because it’s a private business, not one that’s owned and operated by the government, it doesn’t have to operate under the free speech provisions of the First Amendment.
by Egomaniac on Oct 28, 2009 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously you're not a lawyer... so...
Free speech isn’t a right that exists only within institutions “operated by the government..” Free speech is everybody’s right… everywhere… all the time – EXCEPT when it infringes on the rights of others. The classic explanation for this is that you can’t yell “Fire!” in a crowded theatre, thereby creating a panic where people get hurt.
As a citizen, LJ has the right to say anything he wants. But as a public figure, he must also recognize a responsibility to his employer and to his fans. The Chiefs also have the right to decide if they want one of their players out there saying stuff that is offensive to many people.
by RDOGuy on Oct 28, 2009 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's what makes the most sense to me...
I think he will be suspended one game by the league. Then he will ride the bench the next week, and then he will be cut.
I don’t think they’ll cut him now because it shows that you can act up if you want your way off a team. But I also don’t think they’re going to start LJ again, and I don’t think they are going to waste roster space just to bench him.
Suspension, benched, cut.
by Vince D on Oct 28, 2009 11:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
suspend
suspend him four weeks with no pay then after that cut his ass
by fujirio on Oct 28, 2009 11:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Trotter points out that you're likely looking at a union grievance then
by Joel Thorman on Oct 28, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Union grievances are ok, and a good thing. They have to defend everybody.
I compare it to the ACLU having to defend Nazis and stuff.*
*not saying that LJ is in any way a nazi, only that the NFLPA has to defend even the most despicable actions by its members.
See Data Differently.
beyondtheboxscore.com | Twitter: @ justinbopp
by Justin Bopp on Oct 28, 2009 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he isn't released
I think he’ll get the short suspension of 1-2 games. If one of the other RBs steps up & plays better than he has thus far then they have reason to move him down the depth chart…BUT, if the other RBs are as bad, or worse, it would look like he was being benched for saying bad things about the coach. I don’t think that’s a good impression to leave.
by jmcgoblue on Oct 28, 2009 11:41 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think
Haley’s done a good job of shrugging this one off. I think they’re really pushing the media/fan abuse angle.
"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris
by KaloPhoenix on Oct 28, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, from a media perspective.
However, I have little doubt LJ will be made into an example.
See Data Differently.
beyondtheboxscore.com | Twitter: @ justinbopp
by Justin Bopp on Oct 28, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any game from here on out that i see him play i will not watch
i will wait until defense is back on the field and then start watching the game again.
I can not and will not watch a supposed grown man that acts like a bullshit piece of crap ignorant bastard.
sorry if those words offend anyone i am just really angry with this guy some people and i know there are guys on this site who have jobs way more important then him and make alot less money IE all the guys who have been deployed with the military in the past few years and as a fan of the chiefs and this guy taking a shot at the fans that lumps me in with this and i will not have someone talk bad about my job (army) when i am very proud of what i do. im not trying to make this personal or make drama but this guy has no respect for anything. ok i think im done
Check out the gun show over here FIYA POWA
by redmedicone on Oct 28, 2009 11:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
There is no way he will be released until the suspension is dealt with.
If the cut him now, they have to pay his salary for every week. If he is suspended without pay, then the Chiefs do not have to pay his salary for those weeks. If they cut him they will do it after the suspensions have been dealt with in order to save as much money as possible.
by saskwatch on Oct 28, 2009 11:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Suspend him 4 games
then let him ride the pine for the remainder. Treat him as if he doesn’t exist. It is his worst nightmare. Release him one day after the season. No team will be interested and he can move on to his “Jay-Z crew”. It’s what he wants anyway. He has no desire to play football anymore. Letting him fade into the background is way more punishment than cutting him. Forget about the roster spot. Goff and a few others are taking up a space as well.
I remember Dawson to Taylor, Kenney to Carson, and Blackledge catching the snap in his facemask. Seen it all...
by BinSC on Oct 28, 2009 12:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Suspend him then put him on the inactive list for the rest of the season.We may be able to get a 7th rounder out of him, if not cut him.
by idahochieffan on Oct 28, 2009 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one is trading for him.
He is due around 7 million next year (5 million salary and around 2million in bonuses). Every team knows we will release him, and no one is trading for that salary.
by saskwatch on Oct 28, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know what will happen
But I disagree with Gretz that he will see the field again this season. Once his inevitable suspension comes another RB will seize the opportunity and play better than Johnson. This will allow the team to demote him for performance. He can ride the bench, or the practice squad for the remainder of the season and be released at seasons end. Don’t be surprised if he is not released prior to seasons end based upon all his past troubles.
by chief66 on Oct 28, 2009 12:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Gretz
It seems to me that Gretz isn’t necessarily making the point that LJ will be playing for the Chiefs again this season, but just that he will be back on the field.
“I would expect No. 27 will be on the field again this year. But, the clock is ticking on the relationship between the Chiefs and Larry Johnson. The curtain is coming down and L.J. is pulling the cord himself.”
That it will be in a Chiefs’ uniform may be implied though, since few other teams may be interested in him.
by zbschiefs on Oct 28, 2009 12:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I have no doubt he'll get a shot somewhere else if he's released
Other players have done much, much worse than LJ & gotten other jobs repeatedly.
by jmcgoblue on Oct 28, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
RB Position
LJ will be on the wrong side of 30 very quickly, which is the age that running backs typically drop off in production greatly. Suffice to say, LJ is averaging 2.7 YPC now, and that is unlikely to improve as he gets older.
Running backs at his age have a hard enough time finding a job at his age, even if they are well-behaved — e.g. Shaun Alexander, Edgerrin James, etc.
I can see him getting a “shot”, but I don’t think we will ever see LJ as a feature back again.
by Nick Britt on Oct 28, 2009 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only for a losing team.
A good winning team would never bring this guy into their locker room. You are right, deperate teams may give him a shot. Good luck to them…
I remember Dawson to Taylor, Kenney to Carson, and Blackledge catching the snap in his facemask. Seen it all...
by BinSC on Oct 28, 2009 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
But not as a feature back. Even LT shares the load with Darren Sproles now. From LJ’s perspective, Kansas City is his only shot at starting and he knew that coming into the season, that is why we saw the pseudotransformaiton.
I think LJ would phrase it more like this: “i wuzz frontn n now i b cakn bish….Hov!”
by Nick Britt on Oct 28, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or the UFL!
You know with that league just starting out they will be looking for any and all talent they can get their hands on. His best days may be behind him but I’m sure one of those teams would probably be willing to take a shot on him. Granted he won’t receive a big contract, but at that point I am sure he will be willing to take whatever he can get.
by Cassel This! on Oct 28, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ray Lewis
paid someone to murder someone and he gets to keep playing.
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
by kabrink on Oct 28, 2009 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Leonard Little
actually killed a mother of 3 and then got a DUI. Not only is he still playing but still in the city where he did it.
Predictions for 2009:
LJ runs for 1800 yards
Bowe in the pro bowl
Chiefs D finishes in the top 10 in points allowed
Chiefs 10-6
by bonesjackson on Oct 28, 2009 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how long ago was that, under which commissioner, and under what NFL climate?
Things have changed bro.
See Data Differently.
beyondtheboxscore.com | Twitter: @ justinbopp
by Justin Bopp on Oct 28, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wasn't he acquitted?
See Data Differently.
beyondtheboxscore.com | Twitter: @ justinbopp
by Justin Bopp on Oct 28, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
my recollection is he simply refused to testify
so he got a handslap for contempt. Or something like that. OJ didn’t do it either, right?
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
by kabrink on Oct 28, 2009 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really the same. What was the Lewis ruling?
by T-Rich on Oct 28, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Best thing for the Chiefs to do:
Wait until the NFL hands out the suspension. After his suspension is up, keep him on the roster, but put him on the inactive list. Give him the “Keyshawn” treatment for the rest of the year. He’ll still make money, but no where near what he would if he suited up and played games. This takes care of the problem of letting other players think it’s ok to act like this to get out of town. At the end of the season, flat out cut him. Uncapped year next year, so it won’t hurt us cap wise. That leaves teams to think twice about picking up a back that hasn’t played in over 8 games and was a repeat off the field offender and malcontent. Add to that that he hasn’t been a worthwhile RB in over 2 years and you can consider LJ’s career done.
About the Chiefs: I'd rather be a realist than a pessimist
by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 28, 2009 12:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The only trouble with that idea...
…is that if LJ rides the bench, he’ll still be available to the media, and they’ll still be paying attention to what he says on Twitter. More trouble… more distractions. I’m not saying it isn’t the right course of action… just that there is some potential for downside.
by RDOGuy on Oct 28, 2009 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um, no
Key phrase up there is that he’s on the inactive list. He won’t be at games. And he could be held out of practice. Like I said “Keyshawn” his ass. And so what if he’s available to the media? If he’s stupid enough to pop off at the mouth again and get more suspensions without pay or fines, let him. LJ made it about money when he called out fans being $5 an hour workers while he “be cakn”. It’s obvious pride and dignity don’t factor in with him, so hit his wallet. That’s where his heart is.
About the Chiefs: I'd rather be a realist than a pessimist
by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 28, 2009 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
taking the spotlight away
Would hurt LJ as much as the money, He craves the attention being focused on him. If he is foolish enough to seek out that spotlight while under this kind of punishment would only help the Chiefs take further action and keep more of his money. Making him inactive would be my answer, it’s not like we have a lot of players we need to make a spot on the roster for. Late if we do need the Roster spot we know where to get it, but I’m thinking we get a better NT and release Smith.
is it me? or isn't about time the Lamar Hunt trophy belonged to His team?
I’m a Chiefs fan Dammit and I’m damn proud of it!
by KC Fanatic on Oct 28, 2009 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
my same fear
the posts below say “inactive” means he won’t be at games. Is that right? Is that the same “inactive” that Jamaal Charles was for the Oakland game (or which?)? Somehow I doubt inactive means you can’t be on the sideline in street clothes. But, even so, he would still be in locker room and practice right? That’s a bad place for a cancerous idiot to be. Bite the bullet and cut him after the suspension.
There’s enough history to know that he refuses or is incapable of learning anything from these episodes. We’ve all been holding our breath and hoping that this year would be different when he came to camp in shape and in good attitude. But, our doubts and fears were shown to be accurate.
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
by kabrink on Oct 28, 2009 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want this spoiled malcontent...
…to break the Priest’s record for yards in rushing. I hope they bench his ass for the remainder of the year. He is a no-class act and should not be remebered for anything.
by crashman6 on Oct 28, 2009 12:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but...
This is the consensus among fans, but Pioli has loyalty to Priest Holmes and I doubt he cares about petty things like rushing records. He will do what he thinks gives us the best chance to win.
by Nick Britt on Oct 28, 2009 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ONE question
If LJ is cut….thats a BIGGGGGGG IF
Who’s on the top of the waiver wire eligible to pick him up?
I am certain that Pioli does not want LJ to fall in the hands of certain teams… ie New England Patriots.
Sammy Morris injured
Fred Taylor injured
All the got is BenJarvus and Maroney.
Don’t forget that the Pats took in Moss when everyone gave up on him. Saying … what good is Randy Moss when Oakland can’t get anything out of him. As if he was done. And then there was Corey Dillon, disgruntled in his final years with the Bengals. Dillon also had some off-field issues in college like Moss.
LJ is a menace to society when he’s frustrated and when losing amount to more frustration. Going to a winning program – given the leadership of player inside the Patriots org. and a proven HC in Belichik, LJ will be the old LJ.
I’m just saying…
NOT. I think that’s what Pioli is avoiding – letting LJ go to a winning team overnight and helping the Pats upgrade their running game.
you don’t think so? Really..what does NE do when Brady throws TDs and they have 3-4 TD lead before the 3rd QTR? Run da ball…when the weather gets worse in Dec. , what do they do? run the ball
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Oct 28, 2009 12:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Why?
We don’t play the Patriots this year and we sure as hell aren’t making the playoffs. LJ is getting older and even if he is on their team now, he wouldn’t be by the next time we played them.
Let the Patriots have him.
What does scare me though is a pi$$ed off LJ playing his former team. We saw how angry he ran during his first years in KC when he was behind Priest on the depth chart and Vermeil was calling him out.
by Nick Britt on Oct 28, 2009 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We owe Billy B. anyways.
You know we did get the Pioli discount on Vrabel and Cassel
by saskwatch on Oct 28, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah... I dont' think Pioli cares where he goes if he cuts him
“you ain’t gotta go home, you just have to get the f&%$k up outta here”
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 28, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does that matter?
What does scare me though is a pi$$ed off LJ playing his former team
We won’t be competitive anyways, does it matter if a pissed off LJ torches us for 150-200 yards? If he is cut, I am rooting for him to win the Superbowl. It would be awesome to see Larry as the Superbowl MVP!
Predictions for 2009:
LJ runs for 1800 yards
Bowe in the pro bowl
Chiefs D finishes in the top 10 in points allowed
Chiefs 10-6
by bonesjackson on Oct 28, 2009 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If LJ goes to another team with a solid O-line
He will be a good RB for them and maybe he will turn his crap around (as long as he’s happy and doesn’t need a diaper).
The fact remains, he isn’t doing squat behind our line, so let’s put in someone who can.
*My opinions are subject to change.
by CMatthews on Oct 28, 2009 1:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I thought that as well, earlier in the season
but at this point it’s pretty evident that he’s either unwilling or unable to break tackles, even when the O-line opens holes for him. At his best he’s able to run for 9-10 yards now, when the old LJ would have taken those for 15-20 yards.
I guess next season he’ll play somewhere for the vet minimum, and if he does ok he’ll sign a $2-3million dollar contract for the following season & be back to his 2009 self…but 2 years older.
by jmcgoblue on Oct 28, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
My fingers didn’t type what I was thinking in my head. I meant to include, if he does need the O-line to open holes for him everytime, it’s not going to happen this year, and he’s not getting any younger.
*My opinions are subject to change.
by CMatthews on Oct 28, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We all know
Even if none of these comments had been made and even if he had a good attitude, that LJ is not going to be on this team next year. We know he is not the future of this team. Also, since we know we aren’t realistically going to compete for anything this year then we should be playing the young RBs anyway. We need to see what the heck they can do – granted behind an awful OL.
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
by kabrink on Oct 28, 2009 2:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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