Allright AP...is this fair enough?
by krayfish on Oct 28, 2009 8:05 AM CDT
73 comments
I, like all the rest of us, have read and re-read the countless posts and shots either defending Pioli and Haley's decision making thus far, or calling for their heads. Both sides have some fair arguments and to be sure, they also have some points that are based on sheer emotion and unknown variables. You see, since Pioli/Haley haven't had 2 or 3 years yet to prove their plan is a solid one here in KC, those who are calling for heads are probably a bit overboard, while those who toss rose pedals in front of Haley and Pioli as they walk down the street are probably a little drunk from the kool-aid.
The one thing that both sides sometimes fail to do is come up with a solution rather than just bitchfesting. Me included. So I thought about this for several days and I think I have a fair point to be made.
Okay, the real truth is, both sides have legitimate causes. In reality, there is nothing better about the 09 Chiefs. We still suck, we're still horrible and we're still losing.
There is different mentality from the heirarchy however, They are demanding physical and mental toughness, a "want to" mentality here, which has been a long time lacking.
So why are we still bickering over these finite details of whether or not their doing a good job? Here's my take.
I think it's because we loyal Chiefs fans, have yet to hear our leadership address this burning condemned building of a team here in Kc. Not once has Scott Pioli and Todd Haley come out and ASKED for a press conference to speak directly to the Chiefs fans across the country. And I don't mean the press conferences they already do as part of the normal routine. I mean that since we are in such bad straits this year again, they need to schedule a separate distinct press release just to address our concerns as fans.
Wouldn't you feel a hell of a lot better if they did just that? If they came out and said "we want to talk to you Chiefs fans one and all. We want you to know that we are just as frustrated as you are right now. That we feel your pain day in and day out. That we want this as bad as any of you do. We are just asking you to believe in us for a little longer. We have a plan in place here that we firmly believe will end up making us a consistent superbowl contender every year. We are only quiet with the media because we do not want our plans compromised. But rest assured we are positioning ourselves to make some major changes here in KC that will put a smile on everyone's face. Your patience and trust will be rewarded. Just know that we are WIDE AWAKE concerning what needs to be done here and you won't have to wait very long before you see us unveil our plan and introduce it to the NFL".
Now I don't care if I used exact words, so please don't analyze my exact words to death And yes, I know Haley has made some insinuations to the points I listed above, but no one has taken the time to stop, slow down, take a breath and realize that we as fans are waiting to see what the "plan" is. And if their not going to reveal their plans to us, at least respect us enough to come out in a press conference that they schedule strictly to address us fans and make us feel like they care about what we feel like every Sunday afternoon.
You know? Just be real. Stop being aloof secretive double agents. Ok so don't detail who your planning to pick up next year. Don't tell us which coaches you might be looking at bringing in next year. Don't tell us how you plan to redesign this offense and defensive lines, cause that's okay, we don't want the other franchises to know our business anyway.
But at least take the time out of your busy day and talk to us fans. Reassure us that you have this situation under control and all this is necessary to accomplish what needs to be done here in KC to turn this thing around. This is a serious disaster we have here in KC, after any disaster your leadership should come out and assure the public they have everything under control. Is that too much to ask? Is that fair?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
3 recs |
73 comments
| Add comment
Email
Print
Comments
Nah
I don’t need Haley to come otu and tell me anything. They DON’T have it uner control…if they did they would be winning. There are so many factors that go in to why the Chiefs are losing. Lack of talent is huge. Some bad coaching and a weak draft.
Basically unless the team totally falls apart, the new guys need at least two years. I don’t need them to explain to me that they are trying to build the team as they see fit and that it isn’t going to happen over night. This is understood.
I hope to see improvement in certain areas over the course of the 2nd half. That is all I can ask for at this point is some improvement and for them to win more games than Herm did last year.
Next year, they will have to continue to make strides and pile up wins or they will get canned.
Please help send my girlfriend to Broadway! Visit http://magonbroadway.blogspot.com/
by Patrick Allen on Oct 28, 2009 8:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
How long do you think Haley will be allowed to find a way before he gets canned PA?
by krayfish on Oct 28, 2009 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Id say 3 years
If Herm got it then Haley should get it
by tomahawk44 on Oct 28, 2009 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think herm got 3 years because his first year,
gave him a bye…. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him gone after two if next year looks like this year…
by callmesir on Oct 28, 2009 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
the new guy has to show big time improvement next year. I can deal with a year of foundation building but next year has got to be at least a 6 or 7 win season. There needs to eb signs of life like when Dick took over and the offense was scoring a lot. You were able to say…“ok, this team just needs a defense and they will be good.” They never did get that D but the one season the got all those turn overs they went 13-3.
Haley has done a good job getting the ST in line so that is phase 1 of 3. Save the return game it is a huge improvment and I think with some more time and with Charles getting mroe action it could be very good.
I would say next would be the D. By the end of the year we need to see defensive improvement. The should lock it down in year two while they work on the Offense.
By year three the team should be ready to make a run. If not, axe time.
Please help send my girlfriend to Broadway! Visit http://magonbroadway.blogspot.com/
by Patrick Allen on Oct 28, 2009 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec
good timeline, works for me.
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 28, 2009 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I also agree with you that they DONT have this under control..
which is kind of why I wrote this post…the fact that Pioli is not coming public and addressing why they did or did not do certain things in the off season and before the trade deadline passed.
He isn’t talking to anyone including us. That’s what bug’s me. I don’t feel that they have confidence in what their doing right now, at least to some degree…good point.
by krayfish on Oct 28, 2009 8:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I appreciate you using a waiting period before you posted after the loss
Leads to more calm discussion..thank you sir
Don't forget to be an AP-vangelist...Tell A Friend...
by woodman212 on Oct 28, 2009 9:02 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
personally,
I’m a little dissapointed. Are you o.k. Krayman?
by 12t on Oct 28, 2009 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not gonna lie....
The super secret shit kinda bugs me…… It’s not like you’re curing cancer, or have control of a nuclear weapon….. you’re a football team, designed to entertain fans….. Maybe pioli needs a bit of a reality check, drop him off in afghanistan for awhile.
by callmesir on Oct 28, 2009 9:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I feel exactly the opposite...
Pioli and Haley need to be focusing ALL their attention on improving the team, finding more talent, coaching the players, building a game plan, and running the business side of the operation.
The last thing I need is a press conference full of canned answers and lame apologies when i knew what they were going to say before they said it.
Pioli / Haley don’t owe me an answer as to why they chose player X over player Y. I don’t manage the ball club and I’m not privy to 1% of the information that they are. I am afforded the right to thnk and believe whatever i want as a fan, but I don’t deserve nor want my Coach / GM out in the press appologizing for sucking and laying out their plan to fix it.
They can’t talk to “Chiefs Fans” without talking to everyone else at the same time; not in this information age. And exactly what good is it going to do the TEAM to have it’s head coach or GM stand in front of a mic and apologize for how badly the team sucks? Are we trying to tear away every last shread of dignity that our players may still be able to clutch at with bleeding fingers and a heavy soul?
So allow me to answer the questions for you, just as I believe the GM / HC would do:
1) Yes, we have complete confidence in the plan.
2) Building a winning team is a process. We are very carefully and very slowly going through that process in an exacting and methodical way. Speeding through the process may result in 1 or 2 wins, but in the long run it will make teh team weaker.
3) We’d like to thank all the loyal Chiefs fans. We understand that in an economy like this with the current level of success the Chiefs are experiencing it can sometimes be difficult to maintain the kind of loyalty and excitement that our fans do. The Chiefs truly do have the best fans in the world.
4) Player accusitions have to come from more places than the draft. The draft is just one of the possible avenues in which you can build a team. We are working very hard to identify, find, and retain the right 53. We fell that as a unit the Chiefs are a better team now than they have been at any time since we arrived here in KC. That doens’t mean we’re resting on our laurels. We continue to search for any player that can bring all the right qualities we feel that are needed to improve our team.
5) I’m sorry, we aren’t going to discuss the LJ incident or give a reaction to it. That is between Larry and the team, and we will handle it internally just as we will do with any other player. Rest assured, we are working hard to find out exactly what transpired and to make the right decision for the team, the coaches, and the Chiefs.
6) We’d like to thank you all for comming today. That’s all we have time for. Go Chiefs!
There: — Do you feel better now? Is everyone more at ease now that we got to have a press conference to discucc the issues? ….. I didn’t think so.
Pioli will get at least 3 years to build a program before anyone even considers replacing him. Barring any craziness Haley will get at least 2 years if not 3. Call for their heads all you like, but they aren’t going anywhere. You can either buy in to the rebuilding project and understand that starting over from scratch takes time; or you can get mad and fume every time they lose – bounce off the walls for 24 hours and end up right back where we are today. We’re a rebuilding team. That’s the current definition of the Chiefs.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Oct 28, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't need a press conference...
or anyone keeping me informed on day to day operations… but when we start talking about locked access to different parts of the chiefs HQ… i think it’s all getting a little silly
by callmesir on Oct 28, 2009 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what??? why, this is SERIOUS BUSINESS, man! this is TOP SECRET all the way ...
… this is IMPORTANT! behind those locked vaults at One Arrowhead Drive are posited some of the MOST IMPORTANT INFORMATION known to mankind … this is WAR, no, wait … this is more important than mere life and death … THIS … is the ENN EFF ELL
(cue patriotic background music, show flag waving in breeze with amber fields of grain in background)
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 28, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's my boy upamtn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank God everyone of you on AP that upamtn is even a member….he has single handedly brought half of us back from the brink of killing each other..by making us laugh….ROCKY HORROR!!!
by krayfish on Oct 28, 2009 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
absolutely, totally correct
I’m with you TC
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
by kabrink on Oct 28, 2009 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is still to soon for the Pioli/Haley way to take place
One draft is not going to correct all of the problems this team had. Granted I wish more were corrected. Consistency is what I would like to see more of. Do I think there should have been more done in FA? Yes, but I assume the Chiefs had their reasons on that. I agree with the 3 year window though.
by Helmets on Oct 28, 2009 9:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I want to know what those "reasons" are...
by krayfish on Oct 28, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree, but we will never know.
I hope it wasn’t Mr. Hunt saying no.
by Helmets on Oct 28, 2009 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its like
would you want a fireman to come out while a building is burning to the ground and say:
“Hey everyone, this building is on fire, but I just want to let you know we are working on fixing that.”
Just get ’er done, actions > words.
"I will fight you!"
"What is your weapon?"
"My bare hands!"
"That is stupid. I will use a sword and I will cut off your bare hands."
by CT Chief Fan on Oct 28, 2009 9:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you Texas..I don't want more of the same ol same ol'
canned answers and politically correct “i’m doing this press conference cuz this is when we do them”.
I want them to talk to us like we’re friends. Like we’re people. This is our team. Why can’t they just talk WITH us.
I think most fans would like an explanation of why they did or didn’t take certain players that were available. But hey that’s me.
Lastly, you don’t count. I didn’t want a press conference from you. You don’t run the organization and can’t answer the questions I have because you aren’t privy to the answers.
So no that didn’t help at all. Any one of us could have put up a smart ass answer just for the sake of doing it. I was asking a serious question.
by krayfish on Oct 28, 2009 10:40 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
They aren't going to do that...
I don’t care why the did or did not take X player. It doesn’t change the team or the teams record.
I’d prefer they DON’T tell the rest of the league their process for evaluating players, proof reading contracts, interviewing people, work out procedures, on-field evaluation methods etc…
They would have to explain ALL those things and more in order to “inform the fans” why they did or did not take any specific player.
At the end of the day I’m fine with knowing that they evaluated someone thoroughly and made a decision on weatehr or not to remove someone from the roster or practice squad to add that player. Chances are I’m not present for the on-field, off field, human resources, contrat negotiations, background checks, intelligence evaluations, and finding out if a player will work well with the others on the team. I can’t possibly form an informed opnion without those things about a player I’ve never seen on the field for the Chiefs.
Even if I WERE privy to all that information that still does not mean I’m qualified to make a decision on a players ability comparative to a player I already have on the roster.
I’m certainly not informed enough about contracts, salary caps, or the working capital available to the team to make a monitary decision about any player.
I happen to think NOT telling us / the whole world about their evaluations of players or systems or schemes is an advantage to the team. Why would we want to do the evaluation leg work for someone else. Why would we want to tell other teams that we have “more talent” in some player on our practice squad that they could pick up if they wanted to? Why would we want to discuss the strengths and weaknesses of our personnel, scheme, or system in an open forum with fans that would easily end up in the hands of every other team?
There is a reason that the coaching, scouting, player accusitions, game planning, and buisness aspects of the team are all kept compartmentalized. You hire certain guys at the top of the food chain that are privy to all that information so that they can make the decisions that are best for the team. You don’t give everyone in the world all that information so that everyone can second guess you every step along the way. You hire those people that you think can make the best decisions and then you get everyone else the hell out of their way so that they can do their jobs.
I don’t want Scott Pioli wasting his valuable time having a “fireside” chat with me about the Chiefs. I want Pioli busting his butt every single hour of the day to study the problems from every concievable angle and making the decisions about what to do going forward. — Spending his time looking BACK to “expalin” decisions he has already made to the rest of us is contraty to the job he was hired to do.
I like the silent treatment. We’ve tried it the oter way, and it didn’t work. We know this model works. We’ve seen it work. All we can do is hope that we’ve hired the right guy to make the decisions and provide him with all the information that he needs to make those decisions intelligently (thats the job of the different departments). I gave my full faith in Pioli when we hired him. I’m not his cheerleader nor his appologist, but I fully plan on giving the man 3 drafts, 3 off seasons, and 3 seasons before I start questioning his method.
I may not agree with his decisons; which is my right. I may come on AP and bitch about them; which is also my right. But I don’t fool myself into thinking I’m more qualified to make them than he is. We’ll see how his 3 years go, and then evaluate him based on performance.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Oct 28, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I don't agree texas...
(dont’ mess with texas huh?? lol) I don’t need a detailed specific answer, I just want to know what in general is going on. For example, if I ask why WE didn’t get Richard Seymour, that’s a fair question. All I need is for them to say something reasonable and true like " we thought about Seymour obviously, but we have another direction that we’re planning on taking for that position" or “he’s just not somebody we looked at and here’s why”.
Just so we know what their mindset is.
by krayfish on Oct 28, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
don't question The Process
jeez kray, come on =big cheshire cat grin=
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 28, 2009 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
NEVER QUESTION MY AUTHORITIEEEEEEEEE!!
by krayfish on Oct 28, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BTW Krayfish. i gave your post a rec.
I like the calm and thoughtfull nature of the post, and I like that you explained your position.
I just don’t happen to agree, and that’s ok.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Oct 28, 2009 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and you sir..are a worthy adversary....
However, if you ever stop posting smart ass replies I’ll stop coaching..ok? So we don’t want that… “Don’t let me break you”!!! That seems to be the first step towards making friends on AP for me…
gotta rumble in the jungle first and then we chillax with some sweet sweet gonja!! oops I mean Gatorade!
by krayfish on Oct 28, 2009 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but that's my whole point....
They aren’t going to give you a detailed answer, for just the reasons listed above.
They ARE going to give you the pre-canned vague BS like what you just sited as an example.
i.e. -“We thought about it and after evaluations decided it was in the best interest of the team to go another direction.”
That’s a canned responce. They could go out in front of the mic and tell you that about every single player you as about. — Or they could say: “no we did not persue that player; next question”
We all already KNEW that they chose not to sign Richard Symore. That’s as obvious as the nose on your face. If they aren’t going to tell you why, other than to feed you a line specifically designed to pass along as little information as possible, then why bother putting them in front of a mic and wasting their time and yours?
No team is going to give the “inside information” to the fans. SOME teams are going to make a sham and a joke out of talking a lot and saying nothing that didn’t already know. I really couldn’t care less if the Chiefs just don’t bother with feeding me the canned responces. It’s not like I’m actually getting any information that isn’t clearly obvious in the first place. —
In this example: They didn’t sign him. We already know if the player came in for a workout because we read that in the papers from the people paid to watch and report. So we already know if they even bothered to bring the guy in for a view. — I’d rather not know that player X told his agent “I’m not playing for that loser of a team. Call them and tell them to kiss my ass”
I’d ratehr not have the specific answer handed to the press, and thus that means the only thing left is the vague canned responce where you say nothing and smile for the camera. I don’t need to have someone tell me what is apparent from the information already available.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Oct 28, 2009 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
just tired of the BS lines is really all it is ... and I dare say that goes for a lot of guys on AP and other fans
… seriously, Pioli acts like he’s a 5-Star General and whatever goes on in during his watch is National Security stuff … we get the same cliches like The Process and The Right 53 and Changing The Culture … it’s football, for crying out loud …
but damn, man, don’t give us absolute BS lies like “players that give us the best chance to win” when we obviously do NOT play some of those guys (witness: Goff) … unless “The Process” includes “getting the QB injured or killed” there’s no reason I can see for NOT going after O-Line in the 2009 draft … if “accountability” is Haley pretending to be OC and calling some of the stuff we’ve seen and REMAINING OC and play-caller after having fired one of the best in the business (Gailey) then give me something else, please and thank you
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 28, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dear Mr. Pioli,
We, the KC Chiefs fans, are well aware that you cannot give us any specific answers or any details because they may aid other teams in evaluating our players, or our team.
We understand that your job is to watch for the best interest of teh KC Chiefs, not to placate the fans. However, we have a request to make that we think you should be able to fill.
We are well aware that we will not be getting any specific answers reguarding anything meaningful, but we don’t like it when you don’t come out and tell us SOMETHING; even if that something is reaidly available through 10 other sources already.
Without further ado, our request:
Please set aside 2 hours every week to have a press conference specifically designed for the fans of the KC Chiefs. Come out to the podium and blow smoke up our collective asses while not giving away any significant information that would be useful or even interesting.
We are well aware that this press conference will accomplish absolutely nothing. However, it kind-of tickles when you blow hot air into out collective sphincters and at least a tickle is better than nothing.
Thank you in advance for honoroing this simple request,
—- KC Chiefs Fans.
No thanks.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Oct 28, 2009 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
kray, you spent HOW LONG thinking without getting a headache? wtg!
but seriously …
very good post, sound reasoning though I doubt it’ll happen – but yeah, that’s kind of the thing: just what IS this “process” they have, just what DOES it mean to be one of “The Right 53” … some of the moves they’ve made, some of the people brought in are just … stunning, and not in a good way
as you just re-stated vis-a-vis Texas: many of us would, in fact, like some answers and explanations … transparency in the “process” … we’re used to that here in KC with the Chiefs … this isn’t New England, we’re not the Patriots, please don’t run the Chiefs like an “alien” (to us, anyway) organization … please don’t give us lame lines like “The Process” and “The Right 53” and “Players Who Give Us The Best Chance To Win” when it’s painfully apparant that we DON’T see those players and there appears to BE no actual process and/or plan other than “change parts” regardless of who/what/where
I have no clue if Todd Haley actually said anything about “22 guys off the street” (my guess is he probably did, or something like it) … but I do know this “Right 53” line is a lame, old, tired, meaningless cliche
hate to tell you guys, but Herrm actually had a “plan” and a “process” – it was called “rebuilding thru youth” and last year we had a damn good draft (the first draft where Herm was actually calling the shots) but, youth will be youth and make mistakes (on the field) and so the “fans” called for his head and got it – yes, “we” got change (I would have given Herm ver 2.0 w/Gailey) at least one more year) – and the change we got is – well, this … whatever “this” is – secrecy and cliches and “Trust Me, I’m Scott Pioli and Todd Haley”
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 28, 2009 10:53 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Herm is gone let it go.
Chiefs set an NFL record,most roster changes in 1 season.
by bringbacktheglory on Oct 28, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, Herm is gone ... so are players like Pollard and Tyler and ...
but hey, we have Kenny Smith and they brought in Amani Toomer and Zac Thomas and like WOW! look at all the OLD GUYS!!! yeah, the old vets who have nothing left, yeah THAT’S the ticket
of course we blast Carl (now) for having done the same things, and rightfully so … you don’t build with the old guys, you build with youth … IMNSHO we had a half-decent foundation in place and Team PioliHaley blew THAT up and has erected a house of cards
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 28, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
And I can name a bunch of players
that Herm cut or traded that went on to play good for other teams and young players that Herm signed that are not playing for anyone now. So all that goes both ways.
I don’t agree with everything that Pioli/Haley have done just like I didn’t like a lot of what Herm did. But dwelling on what could have happened if Herm would have stayed does nobody any good.
Chiefs set an NFL record,most roster changes in 1 season.
by bringbacktheglory on Oct 28, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
HERMS GONE???????????
When did this happen?
by krayfish on Oct 28, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to announce a press conference for later this afternoon where it will be announced that ...
… Herm is gone …
invited members of the media include krayfish, Joel and Chris Thorman, Bob Gretz, Kent Babb, Josh Looney and, of course, my dear friend Jason Whitlock
the press conference will give a few details but we will not be answering any questions at this time, although we continue to gather facts about the situation
thank you
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 28, 2009 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LMAO....man I almost spit beans all over my screen
thanks up!
by krayfish on Oct 28, 2009 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
rec'd...great comment!! Well put...upamtn...
by krayfish on Oct 28, 2009 11:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
ty kray! luvya man - not like THAT but you know
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 28, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think as fans we don't like being taken for granted.
So it would be nice of them to let us know they’re trying to put out the fire.
by idahochieffan on Oct 28, 2009 11:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I didn't expect this
to change over night so I am not worried about it. There have been too many personnel changes etc going on the expect alot. If the average fan can’t see that then their expectations are set to high IMO.
by Tooner on Oct 28, 2009 11:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Could it be...
Pioli has a plan. He is using Haley as his whipping boy. He’s got nothing to loose with this guy. If he starts to earn the teams respect, great. He may get another shot. Did he really just hire him for this year?
by 12t on Oct 28, 2009 12:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
tt...could you elaborate a little? (-:
by krayfish on Oct 28, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The same answers
have been given since the 1st day that each of them were hired, ad nauseum with the same dead horses being brought up in response. Nothing has changed since then. The search continues & they are adding depth & taking baby steps until they can get to the point where taking a giant leap for one or two players makes one iota of difference.
Till we develop the foundation & the depth to make this team a competitive one & a force to be reckoned with on an annual basis don’t expect them to take a heavy plunge into the FA market unless it is for someone who will be here for 6 or 7 years. Other then that it will be stopgaps here & there for 1 to 2 year contracts building the level of talent incrementially.
They could set up a weekly press conference to tell us this but once should be enough. As TexasChief said: what difference would it make? The story hasn’t changed nor will it in the near future. It is a constant search in trying to build a winner that doesn’t have to rebuild every year or two but simply retools & chugs right along! They are planning on being here for the long term & are building this franchise in that way!
by ttownmikey on Oct 28, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah well, see that's the thing ...
IMNSHO they HAD a foundation (of youth) leftover from LAST year – a freshly poured foundation – and blew THAT up ….
as for baby steps, I see this team going baby steps in the wrong direction – just my opinion
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 28, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It definitely
looked backwards last week but then again the same could be said about the Eagles against Oakland. Stuff happens.
After the moves they’ve made this year turn into players taken in the draft next year, will be the time to start looking at if they are improving or not. Till then: its all in the eyes of the beholder & what you want to see.
A couple of years ago the JA trade looked good but now, not so much. Only time will tell!
by ttownmikey on Oct 28, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ahhh ...I see now!!
Very well then TT….and as always…thank you sir!
by krayfish on Oct 28, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry kray, I love you man, but........
You sound a little like my 4 year old son who won’t stop crying about his “boo boo” until I go over pat him on the head and say “it’s okay buddy, it’s going to be fine, let’s go have a cookie”. I don’t actually heal the wound, he just wants me to recognize the fact that he’s hurting. I don’t need a “pat on the head” or a “cookie” to make me feel better (although I do like me some cookies). I just want Pioli to lock himself in his office and not stop watching tape on players until he finds the guys who are going to take my team to the super bowl.
It's a good thing Pioli and Haley aren't running AP or a lot of you guys would of been traded or cut for cast offs from the Pats Pulpit.
by KCporkchop on Oct 28, 2009 6:08 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
I'm 6 yrs old pork chop....get it straight....
And as much as I’m sure you love your son, I know I love my children more than anything, I’ll take that as the highest possible compliment possible. Thank you very much you made my day.
by krayfish on Oct 29, 2009 7:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Secrecy?
Why should it matter?
From our stand point it all but begins and ends on the playing field. We would care less about ‘secretive’ inner workings if…when we begin winning and being taken seriously in the NFL.
Outside of that it is merely fodder for dissection, discussion, analyzing and second guessing. For me anyway, that’s nothing but gravy when I am wanting the potatoes over anything else.
I just get a sense that only because we are not winning and still inconsistent is this even a subject.
"There are few secrets in football. So execute." ~Coach Stram
"I think it's the fans. The place is crazy. It's a good crazy, if you're Kansas City." ~Coach Schottenheimer
by Bad Medicine on Oct 28, 2009 6:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Seriously
Uptamn and kray, you guys are the advocates of this “special” press conference so I’m asking you. When has ANY NFL team in history done what you are saying? I can’t believe any team has ever gotten on the podium and told the whole world all their detailed exact thoughts and strategies. One of you stated that “we’re used to that in KC” as if King Carl did this? Really? I don’t recall that.
You can view the daily press conferences online. They seem to me to be the same exact coachspeak that is common throughout the league. It’s just like Crash Davis’ cliche training in Bull Durham but for coaches.
I think your idea is just not realistic and has never been done. I also think that if they did give you some more detail than currently, you’d bitch about THAT not being enough either. Where does it become sufficient?
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
by kabrink on Oct 28, 2009 8:58 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
what I meant was we're used to more ... call it "transparency" ... call it plain-speak instead of some mysterious "process"
here’s what I’ve been saying for weeks (and it simply goes with kray’s post) … simply that I’d like to know just what constitutes “The Right 53” for these guys … it’s like this mysterious, non-sensical mantra that gets repeated over and over and over again … Aaaaaauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmmm Aaaaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuummmmmmmmm Right 53 Right 53 Right 53 … all the while some pretty good players are sent packing (or to Todd’s Doghouse with no explanation vis-a-vis Pollard and DJ)
we keep hearing the same “best chance to win” thing over and over again, while Goff remains a starter (as has LJ) and Cassel gets almost killed by the week
we keep hearing about “accountability” and yes, players are demoted (yeah, that’s how to motivate them!) while the HC/OC/play-calling is held accountable by … whom? we are supposed to buy into all this, lock stock and barrel, by a guy who tells a reporter that Albert’s playtime is a gametime decision, this just before the game IN Washington, while Albert never even made the trip TO Washington … does that speak of honesty to you? it doesn’t to me …
do I want a “press conference” … no
do I expect or need one? no
but I do NOT like the BS from this (or any other) organization … and that’s what I see and hear, IMNSHO
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 28, 2009 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's an example for ya' kabrink...
Haley started out before the season doing just what I’m requesting right now. He did it once and once only. It made a LOT of AP followers happy to hear it. He spoke at that big dinner they had where you could buy tickets as fans and sit with a Chief.
He said "next to God and my family this is all I care about yada yada…then he said I can promise you we have the “RIGHT 53”, not the best but the right…he then elaborated that he gave us fans “his” and the “teams” word that these 53 were the guys who fight until the 60 minute whistle blew.
That inspired a lot of posts and comments and applause from AP guys on here. Since then. These right 53 are God awful. I’m not gonna sugar coat this because there is no amount of sweetener that will change what we STILL are here in KC….AWFUL!! PATHETIC!!
Again, I don’t care about the record. The wins losses don’t mean a whole lot to me this year. I was looking however, for improvement. We did some of the most shuffling of any team in the offseason, so I rightfully so, expected to see something DIFFERENT this year. Some glimmer, some hope that things are getting better.
Since that hasn’t happened, and since I pay their wages just like you do and all the rest of us KC fans do, I deserve to be talked to like a person. Like a fellow human being. I don’t need all the dirty little secrets and the thousands and thousands of little intricate details, but I would like some kind of answers. I pay for them. So do you.
When the best thing about this season so far is that our QB has miraculously survived without permanent injury and our kicker is the best player on our team, something is fucked up here. We had a surplus of over 30 million dollars in salary cap space.
Where is it?? I contributed to that fund. Where in the hell is my money being spent?? We certainly didn’t blow it on getting talent in here. Other than Cassel, who?? Mike Brown? Really I don’t think so. Vrabel?? He’s a patchwork. He came cheap.
So where’s the big bucks being spent? We passed on Seymour?? WTF?? Seymour? So we could bring a guy out of retirement? Who hasn’t played in 6 years??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously?? That’s the best our leadership could do to help our franchise? Smith??? Geez people, this is bad stuff here. Especially since we gave them a free pass on our record this season because we knew they had a lot of work to do here.
But we deserve to see something or be talked to.
You talk about not spilling our secrets and to some degree I’m on board with that. But it’s the NFL. They all have worked together or for each other at some juncture. The league has been around for 50 years. There are no more secrets. They all know how to do what the other team’s do and why. It’s a matter of who’s better at it. Sharing a little insight with your fans isn’t going to compromise that either.
But TT really makes a valid devil’s advocate for this point…“until they bring in one or two players will make one iota”. Accepted agreed.
by krayfish on Oct 29, 2009 7:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
OK, gotta go to work but I'll respond again to upamtn and krayfish after I get home
See you then!
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
by kabrink on Oct 29, 2009 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, we'll see you then
have a great day at work….drive safe…GO CHIEFS!!
by krayfish on Oct 29, 2009 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll be offline a coupla days here, kray ... you "keep the faith"
and to all my fellow AP-ers, though we may disagree on some or even many things, we ALL agree on one thing: we love the Kansas City Chiefs
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 29, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Transparency!" ----dunt du du duhhhhhh!
1. The Right 53 – Ok. I think you guys have actually answered this for yourselves already. But, if not, Haley has. The Right 53 is a collection of characteristics of the players. I think it is (and has been stated as such) limited as the Right 53 available to us right now. Talent is certainly one of the characteristics but they have clearly stated that this is not all it is. Kray, you mentioned the “fight for a full 60 minutes” attitude. How many times have we also heard "mentally tough, physically tough, smart, focused, understanding of the game situation and the ramifications of it, “team player”, individual character, etc. These have all been stated time and again. They are not fluff words, they really mean something. It’s just that it’s hard to measure these things even for coaches and GMs that see and know the players. It’s impossible for us.
Above I emphasized individual character. Even this can mean different things to different people. And difficult to measure. I think we can all agree that we were a bit surprised at the apparent improvement in Larry Johnson’s behavior and we hoped it meant a return to great football performance and was a true improvement in his character. We were wrong. So? He is going to be gone for a short while and then a little bit later, forever. Uptamn said:
all the while some pretty good players are sent packing (or to Todd’s Doghouse with no explanation vis-a-vis Pollard and DJ)Pollard apparently wasn’t one of the Right 53 Available to us Right Now. Why? It’s widely debated whether it is as simple as a talent/performance/system issue (hitter instead of coverage) but perhaps it was also a characteristics issue. I guess I can get onboard with you guys that the team could state the talent thing if that’s it. Maybe they did, I simply don’t recall what they said. If it’s a characteristics thing, do you really think they should just say the equivalent of “he was a fucking bum so we cut him”? Just let the guy go and move on. We certainly don’t want to go down the path of talent over character/team do we? I thought we already crucified Marty for resorting to that late in his reign.
2. Best Chance to Win. This one can be pretty simple. They honestly think they are playing the best players we can dig up at that position at this moment in time. They know more about the players than we do. Granted it’s still inside the intersection of talent/personal characteristics/availability. But, it’s a package. So, you might disagree with their assessment but how do wish them to explain it? “We aren’t playing so and so because he’s an asshole” is unproductive if you’re still hoping to coach up/reign him in/etc.
3. Accountability Here I simply disagree with you. Haley has called himself out in many of his press conferences unlike Herm ever did. He states that he has to do better at play calling or whatever. We have to take his word that he’s trying to improve at this point. He can and may replace himself but he can’t very easily or effectively do that right now. You can argue he shouldn’t have fired Gailey when he did but actually, it’s a form of accountability which he acknowledged at the time. He apparently felt he could do better and he stated that it all falls on him as head coach anyway. So, he was right to install whomever he thought was the best option at that time. You can disagree but it was explained to you.
4. Seymour and more. They may have, but I don’t recall any of the reporters asking Haley why they didn’t sign Seymour. If they didn’t, why would he explain it? Do you really expect Haley to report on why we didn’t sign every single player that is traded or is taken off the FA market or drafted?
5. It ain’t your money. This is a disparate point but you brought it up Kray. We are spiritual owners of this team only. It’s not directly your money they are spending (or not) so they are under no obligation to report to you on what happens to it. If you go to the games, you are certainly the most direct form of financier outside of the owner himself. The money you spend for the entertainment product and the concession products go right to the team for usage. That money though bought you entertainment, food, a jersey – not ownership of a team. The rest of us are even more removed. We “pay” by enduring endless advertising on tv. By the argument you’re trying to make, Budweiser would be a bigger “owner” of the team than any of us are. They’re the ones paying money to the Chiefs and to the Chiefs through NBC/NFL, whatever.
6. My typing digits are tired.
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
by kabrink on Oct 29, 2009 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well thought out, kabrink, thanks for the effort and sorry about the fingers
1 we need all the TALENT we can get, and if Goff is indicative The Right ANYTHING then this team might as well fold right now … hell, they quit in the Chargers game (or seemingly so) so yeah, I have MAJOR issues with this Right 53 BS
2 there is no way you or anyone on AP can honestly believe the current starters are THE BEST we have even on the current roster, even to TRY some others in place of the ones who’ve been starting (Goff, LJ) instead of the same old, same old every time with the same results
3 glad you disagree, but it’s cool, love ya anyway man … and here I disagree with you vis-a-vis Haley … I call BS on that, he has no business being OC if he’s gonna be HC … we saw Sunday v Chargers his head can’t handle all the crap going on at gametime AND calling plays as well (on top of which his play calling has been pretty bad all season long – so he “calls himself out” at press conference … whoop de do! if a player was doing as badly as he’s doing, that player would be 4th string or gone already)
4 I never wanted Seymour, nor do I “cry foul” on every guy they bring in or look at … I do think Pioli was a fool not to have gone after OL in the draft, it’s getting his star QB killed every week
5 you’re right, it ain’t my money … except it is in a way, those ads that cost more and more, and the player salaries, all add to higher costs for EVERYONE … me, you and granny on a fixed income who has no idea what a football is … you have a point, it’s not MY team, but it’s MY community and MY tax dollars (and yours) that pay for this, that and the other …
good thoughts and well said, kabrink … we can agree to disagree at times, but we both love the Chiefs
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 29, 2009 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and for the record
I am disagreeing with you more on the transparency and press conference explanation angles of the earlier posts than on the substance in this last one. For instance:
1. We need all the talent we can get. Totally agree. But where do we get it now?
2. I can buy that. In Goff’s case they must believe that OL role consistency and veteran presence is a benefit. Unfortunately, we’ve had no OL role consistency anyway regardless of him and he’s just too old.
3. I believe that I’m on record long ago that it would be best if there was a designated OC and Haley should concentrate on HC. However, my point was based on the fact that we are where we are NOW. What do you expect him to do NOW in terms of accountability. Do you really think we should change the OC AGAIN? Mid season? I don’t think that’s realistic at all nor advisable. Haley’s accountability needs to simply come through taking his share of the blame for losses and mistakes through the end of the season and then by relinquishing the duties to an OC during offseason.
4. As I stated I don’t expect them to fully brief me on why they didn’t pick up Seymour or anyone else. However, I agree with you on OL. I am on the record for a long time stating that the OL was the primary weak point and area of need and core of many problems. I also expected Pioli would be more active in FA/draft to fix this area. Again, do I expect them to tell me their plan or to say “well, I just effed up, sorry folks”? No.
5. My taxes paid for Safeco Field and Qwest Stadium – but fair enough.
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
by kabrink on Oct 29, 2009 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey! What the hell?
I thought you were gone for a few days and I’d only have 1 opponent.
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
by kabrink on Oct 29, 2009 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL - got snowed in here in Denver - they closed I-70 all the way to Kansas
stuck here til at least Fri morning, so have to get my digs in cheesey grin
doesn’t look we’re all THAT far apart on some things, actually … and yeah, I know there’s not much out there talent-wise RIGHT NOW … but to go back to the same reject pile (Pats) all the time (or Cards) it’s as if Pioli/Haley are almost “afraid” to look at anyone they don’t have a priori information on … I think they need to get out of their comfort zone a bit, look around more, something (Kenny Smith was THE BEST O-Lineman they could find of ALL the FA’s and PS’s??? please, that’s so hard to believe it’s beyond unbelievable)
and yeah, get a new OC right now … someone to call the plays on gameday, at least, cuz Todd has proven (to me) he can’t handle the plays, the clock, the overall game, dealing with players, the refs, etc etc ALL AT THE SAME TIME (just an example: if Herm had called the 4th and long 2 from OUR OWN 40 or had mismanaged the clock just before half the way Haley did, everyone on AP would have called for his head on a platter, and we all know it)
you hang in there, talk at ya soon
oh! check out Matt Connor’s post about LJ’s Historically Bad Season … esp the last coupla paragraphs, and then tell me Haley’s giving us The Best Chance To Win
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 29, 2009 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow, gotta check the weather channel on western kansas I guess
Totally agree on Kenny Smith. WTF??
As to LJ, I think they are acknowledging how sucky our OL is and therefore not placing all the blame on LJ and giving him a chance to show them if he can adjust to it and be productive. They were wrong and his blow up gives them a convenient excuse to ditch his ass.
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
by kabrink on Oct 29, 2009 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would also help if...
The reporters didn’t ask about LJ when Haley says he’s not going to comment on it. There are a lot of better questions to ask…Like , what changes have you made to become more competitive?
by idahochieffan on Oct 31, 2009 11:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Join the community and dive in!
Secondary Sidebar
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
