Four Rushes To Judgement On Our Chiefs
by scottbwalters on Oct 27, 2009 1:26 AM CDT
33 comments
Okay guys, we're all making a few rushes to judgement. I've seen a lot of comments about people making predictions of what will and won't happen. I'm here to clear it up for you with a healthy dose of reality and a pinch of optimism.
1. OMG I think Brodie Croyle will/should start after the bye.
I hate to break it to this segment of the AP faithful, but its absolutely not going to happen. Whether Matt Cassel is playing up to his QB of the Future moniker or not, the fact is he was brought in to be the guy. Yes, he needs better weapons. Yes, he needs a better offensive line. Yes, the play calling has been suspect. However, he's going to get multiple seasons to prove you right or wrong. JaMarcus Russell, Trent Edwards, Jason Campbell. Those QBs all have had infinitely more time than you're wanting to give Cassel to develop, yet Cassel's season with New England represents the best season any of the four QBs has had.
Brodie has shown to be injury prone (and that's putting it nicely) and I don't know how you can think he'd hold up under the constant barrage KC QBs are under behind this OL.
2. Fire Haley!
Once again, this one's not happening. Last I checked, we haven't become the Oakland Raiders. Clark and Pioli are committed to turning around the franchise. If you look at the worst 5 franchises in the last decade, one of the greatest common denominators is instability at leadership positions, whether that be head coach or GM. The Pioli/Haley/Hunt trio will get at least 2-3 years before anyone even considers a head coaching change.
3. Glenn Dorsey is a bust.
Thankfully, this one has calmed down a bit but there are still detractors out there. Once you can get past the difference in roles of DEs in 3-4s vs 4-3s, you'll realize that Dorsey's numbers for his first and second years are right in line with those of other great defensive linemen. Its one of the toughest parts of the defense for players to make the transition, but all signs point to his improvement and steady progress. averagegatsby was kind enough to provide some statistics here.
4. We need to draft an OT in the first round of the 2010 draft.
Give Brandon Albert some time to adjust to his new playing weight. He got away with an awful lot last year in the scheme Gailey was using. He could just throw his weight around. In the end, he'll be better for it and be in better shape. Our OL upgrades will be better spent on the interior line (Why does Goff still have a starting spot, much less a roster spot?) at the G and C positions. Depth is always needed but Albert and O'Callaghan are serviceable at worst.
Well, I'm sure I'll think of a few more as soon as I publish this but I'm just tired of all the misplaced negativity. At least I managed to leave LJ out of this one.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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I agree with all
I was also someone who thought we should give Albert time at LT. BUT, I really thought about it, and even left a comment about it on another post. Consider this.
Say Waters stays in KC. We can draft a 1st round LT, move Albert to LG, and let Waters jump over to RG. That would mean we have 3 solid starters on the OL. If O’Callaghan continues to improve (which IMO, he is) the only position of need on the OL is C.
If Waters does not stay, I’m confident that Niswanger could play RG better than Goff considering that Goff is much worse in his position than Niswanger is right now, and Niswanger is out of place. (6’5 playing Center puts him at a major leverage disadvantage)
If that idea were to follow through, we would only need to pick up 2 guys to help bolster the OL, leaving us plenty more picks for other positions of need. This would give us a young, talented OL with TONS of potential and the more they play together, the better theyre going to get. I would LOVE to have the same OL from year to year like we did in the early 2000’s, as long as theyre playing well.
by Petey14 on Oct 27, 2009 3:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Only problem is you’re including Waters in the this ‘young’ line. I don’t see him as a future contributor.
I'm officially on the 'Draft Eric Berry' train.
by scottbwalters on Oct 27, 2009 8:19 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I'm on board with Petey14
I have said this before on another post, but I think Albert has tremendous talent and could be a very competent LT. But an elite LT? I’m not sold. However I do think that he would be an elite LG, and a natural replacement for Brian Waters. Therefore, spend the first round pick on an elite LT, move Albert to LG, draft a center and a RG in the middle rounds, and pray that O’call is a legitimate answer to RT (I also think he is).
scottbwalters: I couldn’t agree more with the first 3 posts. nice write up
by Fourstrike89 on Oct 27, 2009 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
just to plat dei=vils advocate
You are suggesting ther to impove our OL we should
1) move a guy that is now in his second season working at LT to a new position (in teh nfl) LG
2) move a 1n 11 year verteran multi-prowl bowl player out of the spot he’s been playing and ask him to play left handed on the opposote side.
3) Draft a new center that has never taken a snap in the NFL
4) Either move an incompetent blocking center to the most important run blocking position on te line RG – OR draft a new guy no better than a 2nd rounder that has never taken an NFL snap.
5) Leave the one guy on the whole line in 2010 playing the same position he played in 2009 as an inseason pick-up cast off from another team
Not saying I disagree with you, but if you expect the line to get instantly better by playing 1-2 rookies, 2 guys out of position, and one cast off as teh starters for 2010 then you don’t even have to take into account the fact they wil never have played together before.
This line is not going to get “good” in the next year. It’s going to take more time than that. And we need to SERIOUSLY consider using at least 1 high round draft pick on a MLB/ILB, another on an OLB, and one for a “bruiser” of a rb that is mute and thumbless (no talking, no twittering). That’s all assuming we can pick up at least 1 starter quality receiver somewhere.
I’d say we really should be looking to free agency / waivers for OL talent right away. Spending some $$$ on a highly talented RG or C AND a depth player LG to back up the aging Waters is in the teams best interest.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Oct 27, 2009 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
Albert might not be the LT of the future, but its too early to abandon him. Fortify the inside of the line THIS offseason and then if Albert still struggles, move him inside or to RT and draft a LT in 2011 draft.
I'm officially on the 'Draft Eric Berry' train.
Haley-Crennel 2010.
by scottbwalters on Oct 27, 2009 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like that plan
Get a starting caliber Center in the draft, no matter what.
Get a starting caliber Guard in the draft or FA, if possible (Start Waters and Ndukwe/Alleman if not)
Albert, Waters, O’Callaghan should be given at least one more year.
Goff should not
Niswanger should not
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 27, 2009 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not pa'ticular.
If a sure thing comes along in FA at C, I’d be all for it. I’m one who likes more certainty at left tackle, though. None o’ this “… if Albert still struggles…” nonsense, though. Albert needs to start dominating, or the QB’s blindside is forfeit.
Now that I’m no longer watching the Chiefs for enjoyment, I’ll be scouting Albert pretty hard. So far, he hasn’t looked all that bad to me, but he hasn’t been dominant either. LT is at a tipping point, right now, with more and more defenses out-quicking the LT. In situations like that, Albert oughta be able to just mow those speed guys over and KC oughta be able to run at anybody who can out-quick the big guy. Haven’t really seen that this year. They’re bein’ out-quicked and overpowered, both.
As for another year, I think Albert’s good enough to start on the o-line for many years to come. O’Callaghan, I’d keep for another training camp, maybe another year. I think he’d be a decent backup, if he didn’t quite win the starting job. Frankly, I’d rather see him be a backup to a better all-around RT, but agree that a makeover in the middle 3 is essential. I don’t really want Waters back, though. Rather see a fresh start.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 27, 2009 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It doesnt matter
what we draft on the OL..no matter what the inside will be fortified.
If we draft a LT, I feel pretty good saying that Albert would see success at LG.
We also have a 2nd round pick or FA to pick up a C or RG.
If we leave Albert where he is, then we’ll likely go for a RG or C. Unless we plan to move Waters to RG, then we’d go LG.
So no matter what you do with Albert, the inside WILL get help. And I’d rather have Albert playing the position that hes always played and getting a can’t-miss LT instead of having to wait and stunt the development of the OL later if Albert doesnt become what we want him to be.
by Petey14 on Oct 28, 2009 5:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I feel like if we’re going to use a 2nd or 3rd round pick on OL, it needs to be a G or C. In those rounds, you’re likely picking the top 1-2 guys at the position and you’re more likely to get elite level talent. Use the 1st pick on an elite player whose position merits the early pick (ie: safety :) )
I'm officially on the 'Draft Eric Berry' train.
Haley-Crennel 2010.
by scottbwalters on Oct 28, 2009 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is something to be said for drafting a bookend high,
I can think of worse things than to miscalculate and – Woe is Me! – be stuck with one too many tackles! Also, it seems like every time we talk about Albert, we’re making excuses for him, first saying he’s doing good considering he played G in college, and then making allowances for the weight loss and figuring he’ll keep getting better, as he learns to play with better technique. These are all the things you say when you really don’t have a real deal LT, the most important position on offense (imo) – the one position I wouldn’t hesitate to trade good for great, even if greatness came at great cost.
This isn’t Jake Long or John Alt or Willie Roaf. He could be GREAT in the interior and maybe pretty good at EITHER tackle position, and we’d at LEAST have a guy on the depth chart who could give quality snaps if THE starting left tackle got hurt, without blowing up the offense.
But I’m not an expert on these matters, and generally go on hearsay when it comes to evaluating tackles in the draft. About all I know is that it’s really easy to settle for the #3 or #4 best tackle and end up spending a lot for somebody who simply can’t get it done. And even the #1 prospect can disappoint. It has to be the real deal, and not a “We can coach him up and he’ll realize his upside and none of his downside will carry over the to pros” deal, like so many of Peterson’s o-line picks.
Also, I think an impact player is needed in the secondary more than ‘most anywhere else, right now. If the talent’s there, I wouldn’t mind seeing the top 2 picks spent on DBs, and just put an end to all doubt.
As for the clear deficits on O-Line, I fully agree with you that there’s more hay to be made at C and G. Also RT, which would be a tempting 2nd pick, followed by either a true C (on the small side is OK – on the tall side or on the slow side is not) in the draft or in FA. I can’t believe that Peterson let Wiegmann get away. Guys like Wiegmann are the gems that your organization polished. You need to reward the no-names who produce, rather than just congratulate yourself on having locked them in for pennies on the dollar.
Pioli was very passive on o-line. Very disappointing to me insofar as its impact on the ’09 season. No action is still an action. But LONG-term, one big move, like the Cassel/Vrabel trade per year is probably a pretty good rule, for a guy who wants his decisions to be simpler a year or three down the road. Might be able to make a bigger splash your 1st season, but leave yourself wrong-footed every year for 10 years with that kind of behavior (Just ask King Carl.).
I don’t see moving Waters to C. Hell, I don’t see him playing for the Chiefs at all in 2010, and if he did, I don’t see moving him to C, unless he really wants the job. Probably nobody on the roster more qualified to make the line calls. To compete in 2010, the Chiefs will have to be active in the draft and FA. A lot hinges on who develops this season, too. I’d sure like to believe that one or more of Ndukwe, Alleman and O’Callaghan turn into something. But I have yet to see Pioli accomplish anything with that unit, and I thought he was all about the widebodies.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 27, 2009 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly
I dont see Waters at C either. I see him at either G or not at all like you said.
As far as Indukwe and Alleman go, they are backups on a horrendous OL, and play the positions that have the biggest need (C, RG). If they are backups for guys who are already terrible at C and RG, I dont have much hope that they can be an improvement.
Great stuff.
by Petey14 on Oct 28, 2009 5:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To answer
1. Moving inside from T to G is not a tough transition to make, and often times, has good results. Look at Gallery in Oakland. He was supposed to be a cant-miss LT, never became that, moved to LG and began to play much better. Albert, along with the rest of the OL last season, were masked by the spread offense. Albert is struggling, and hes very young. Making the switch now would be better than waiting to see if he flops THEN trying to switch him.
2. 1 of the things that interested the Chiefs in Brian Waters was the depth he could add. He has experience at all 3 interior line positions. With a young LT and young LG, they would be plenty of time to improve, and gel. Waters would simply be a stop-gap (like Goff was supposed to be) until a RG is obtained. I feel confident in saying that Waters would play RG better than Goff.
3. We drafted Albert and played him as a rookie and he had never taken an NFL snap didnt we? More elaborate answer on this after I go through your points.
4. Niswanger has good size for a RG. He has terrible size for a C. If he CAN play RG better than he does C, and we dont have another RG who’s better than him, I think he would be more successful than Goff. If not, I have another point that im going to make.
5. This cast off comes from a team with a very deep OL and has played RT pretty consistantly for us in only a few starts. Evaluating his performance will determine what happens with him after this season. At this point, we need upgrades and he has been a major upgrade over D-Mac.
Who said I thought that having 1-2 rookies would instantly make the line better? See, you must be one of those “instant turn around” guys. I’m not looking for the instant turn around. I’m looking at filling the roster with YOUNG and potential talent, than can play together for years. Why? Because thats how you build a dynasty. A consistant team is a good team and having the OL on the same page with the same people helps. The Chiefs at 1 time had the longest consequtive starting lineup on the OL and that OL dominated. Filling the OL with young talent that can play together is going to help in the rebuilding process. Getting that talent NOW and letthing them play for a couple years is going to build for the FUTURE.
I also mentioned that we could get a high round pick on a LB. Right now, we only have 1 1st round pick and I’m pretty sure most of us thinks we need that pick for the OL more. (build from the trenches out, Pioli started the DL last year, its time for the OL this year) a 2nd round pick can be used on a LB.
We cant really evaluate the WR’s very well right now. Wade has shown up for us alot and Bowe is dropping passes but hes only a 3rd year guy. This is Haleys first year, so I’d like to see what Haley can do with Bowe. By the time our OL comes around, we should have a good idea if Bowe is going to be apart of the future. If not, hell, Trent Green didnt need a star WR behind a top OL to be a 4000 yard, 24td 12 INT guy.
I agree with youre last paragraph. I mentioned drafting, but really I mean we just need to upgrade those positions either way we can. But id like to see us put together a younger OL that can develop over time and become elite like the OL we had in the early 2000’s.
by Petey14 on Oct 28, 2009 5:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
C'mon Petey14
You know me better than to say
See, you must be one of those "instant turn around" guys.
When have I ever given the impression that an instant turn around is even plausable?
I argue against that regularly on the site.
I understad that we need to get some young talent on the team to bring up the way we want them, but I think investing the top pick on a LT, then the 2nd rouners on a center and guard and leaving our woeful problems on defense to simmer for another year is the wrong method.
What I’m trying to point out is that tossing our early draft picks at the offensicve line and reshuffling everyone we have is not necessairly the best solution to the problem. Early round linemen CAN and DO bust. The draft is ONE small basket, and we have more eggs than will fit.
We might not be able to replace the whole line in one year while ignoring pressing needs in other places. (LB, Safety, RB and WR for example). Blowing all our early draft picks on the OL and reshuffling every single part of it may not be the answer. We need to be looking for players already in the league who are good at their jobs and putting them in at the SAME POSITION they currently play. We also need to be adding at least 1 player if not more, that have proven their ability to handle the job on the NFL level.
In order to make signifigint gains on the OL inside the 2 year mark we will need to be addressing the holes with NFL players playing their current positions that we know can do the job. Adding all rookies from the draft AND moving players around out of their natural positions very well may cause more problems than it solves.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Oct 28, 2009 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay
I understand. It just seemed that your comment about me saying we should play 2 rookies and we’d instantly have a better line meant that you were looking for an instant turn around. With as many people on AP, I cant remember where everyone stands as far as that goes.
But hey, before I get into the response to this, let me start by saying..go ahead and say it. Tell me..I know you want to. Say “I told you so” about LJ. SAY IT! Haha jk. BUT..I am officially now on the same side as you about LJ. I was doing some digging too. Charles has only fumbled once this regular season on 75 touches. LJ has fumbled twice on 144 touches. If Charles can stay at the same pace, he’d have 150 touches and 2 fumbles, alot like LJ, so if Charles can keep the fumbling down, maybe he can be better than LJ. But also, I dont believe that change of pace backs who step into a starters role typically do well. (Tatum Bell anybody?)
Whoa whoa I think you misread my post. NO..I do not think we should spend a 1st round and 2 2nd rounds on the OL. I think we should spend a 1st round on a LT, then 1 of the 2nd rounds somewhere else on the OL. I think 2 of our high round picks should be on the OL ONLY IF we do not make additions via FA. We definately need to spend a pick no lower than the 2nd round on an LB..maybe NT but I think LB is the bigger need right now.
The best way to build an OL is through the draft. Why? Because the OL is the most important position in football, and teams RARELY let a top OL, let alone a young top OL, get away. Go look at the good teams starting OL and you’ll notice that MOST teams with a good OL drafted the OL. Sure, theres exceptions (Brian Waters was undrafted, Willie Roaf came from NO, and so on) but in most cases, teams build the OL through the draft.
Like I said, if there is a high-caliber LG, C, RG out there in FA, we should definately grab them. But, honestly, what if Albert doesnt pan out at LT? We’ll be looking back at this point saying damn..we should have drafted a top LT. Instead, we’ll be in the same boat that Oakland was in when they moved Gallery to LG. We’ll be missing the most important position on the OL and thats LT.
If we get a stud LT now, move Albert to LG, we wont have to worry about the left side of our OL for 10 years or more. However, if we DONT get a LT, and Albert doesnt pan out, 3 years down the road we’re going to be back where we are now…looking for someone to anchor our OL.
LB, Safety, RB, WR, NT, OL,…it doesnt matter how we upgrade those. As long as we upgrade them. I’m not saying the only way to fix the OL is through the draft, I’m just saying thats the common way an OL is built. Every other position of need (except NT) typically has a high caliber player in FA each year. Karlos Dansby should be one. I havent even seen the upcoming FA list so IDK whos available. Thats why IDK how we should try to improve the team.
FA comes before the draft. Whatever we dont improve via FA is addressed in the draft. And I’m more than willing to bet that we dont improve the OL much through FA, because as I said, alot of those OL’s hit FA for a reason. We’ve tried many times (we havent had a RT since Tait) to fill our OL via FA and it hasnt worked. Welbourn, D-Mac, Goff, traded for Indukwe and Alleman and they havent done squat for us. All the draft picks we spent, other than Albert, were late rounders. Richardson, Taylor, Brown.
If there is a high-quality C, RG, or even LG/LT depending on Albert and Waters situation, by all means, take him. I just dont think theres going to be many, if any, available.
“addressing holes with NFL players” isnt always a good idea either. CP tried to do that for 10+ years and it never worked. We need balance between FA and the Draft.
by Petey14 on Oct 28, 2009 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i was truly upset....
when we made no play for Jordan Gross this past offseason. He was ripe for the picking.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Oct 28, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great discussion guys, keep it up.
I'm officially on the 'Draft Eric Berry' train.
Haley-Crennel 2010.
by scottbwalters on Oct 28, 2009 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gross
was Franchised last year and Re-signed this year.
How do you know that Pioli didnt call his agent? Maybe Pioli called his agent who told Pioli no because Gross wanted to resign with the Panthers? He signed in February..thats pretty fast to resign with the team that Franchised you the year before. I think its safe to say that Gross wanted to stay on that team.
We dont hear about those phone calls. Thats why I get irritated when people say “Oh we should have went after him”…if you can figure that out, dont you think the guy whos running the team can figure that out?
by Petey14 on Oct 28, 2009 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, the way I read it was.....
The Panthers knew they had both Gross and Peppers comming up in the same year. They had to work hard and fast to get at least one of them signed right away so that they could “dangle the franchisee tag” over te other one’s head as a pressure move to get them to sign.
They had to make a decision about which one to persue quickly, and which one to risk/dangle on the open market until deciding if they wanted to tag them. Between the 2 Peppers was the oe runing hismouth about wanting to move to 3-4, and Peppers was the one that was going to cost $16million for 1 year.
The team knew that there wasn’t a lot of market for a $1 dollar per game player switcing from a proven position to an unproven one so they had much more leverage over Peppers but threatening the franchisee tag.
They put Pepers contract negotiations on the back burner and focused on aggresive negotiations with Gross. They wanted to get Gross signed quickly before he started to shop the market seriously. They didn’t want to lose him to promises of big money from another team.
After Gross was done they had plenty of time to ignore Peppers demands for a new contract because they could just slap the tag on him ad keep him.
If they had tried it in the other order it’s likely someone would have signed Gross away from them. He wasn’t nearly as overpriced and he was proven at his position.
I still think tat if anyone with plenty of cap space had moved in fast and went after Gross they could have signed him away. I still think Chiefs should have been going after him. But we were too busy interviewing GM’s,HC’s, OC’s, DC’s. /sadface
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Oct 28, 2009 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I
really..really disagree with that. Heres why.
1, Peppers wants to go to a 3-4 because when the Panthers line up with 3 down linemen, he has more success than when they have 4 down linemen. There was an article on yahoo or maybe even here at AP about that. Thats why he wants to go to a 3-4 full time.
2, It doesnt matter that they had to choose someone to resign. Fact is, the signed Gross fast. And that goes with what I previously said that OL’s are typically built through the draft, and that teams RARELY let go a young, talented OL who has a bright future. Usually the only time that happens is when a player is unhappy with the team when he hits FA.
Gross hit FA. They didnt extend his contract. They let his Franchise contract run its course, he hit FA and they immediately re-signed him. And there is proof of that. He was Franchised for 1 year on Feb. 19th 2008. EXACTLY 1 year later, February 19th 2009, when his contract expired, he re-signed with the Panthers.
Now think about that. That has to mean that Gross’ agent and the team were already in contract negotiations BEFORE his contract even ended. That tells me that he had already decided that he wanted to STAY with the Panthers. He’s not allowed to conduct negotiations with any team until his contract is expired. Therefore, Pioli COULDNT get Gross without Tampering with a player under contract. The only chance Pioli had was the day his contract expired, and by then, a contract was already negotiated and waiting to be signed by Gross.
Its clear that Gross wanted to stay in Carolina, and in no way, shape or form did we ever have a chance to get Jordan Gross.
by Petey14 on Oct 29, 2009 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where there's a will, there's a way =)
While I don’t disagree with 1 or 2 that doesn’t mean tehre was never a chance.
Mr. Gross’s Agent,
We see that your contract expired last year and you were franchised. We understand that you are in heavy negotiation with your ball club concerning a new contract. We would like to extend to you an offer. Continue to negotiate the contract you are already working on and when you have finished and have an offer sheet in place kindy make a phone call to us before you sign it.
We really are interested in upgrading our OL, and we have more salary cap space than China has rice. We’re prepared to offer your client a contract paying a bare min. of 12.5% MORE than any offer sheet that Carolina puts on the table. They are up against the salary cap and cannot possibly offer the monitary compensation that the Chiefs will be able to.
In addition we would be willing to discuss reducing the number of years of an offer sheet from Jacksonville. They are obviously going to try to lock up your client on a long term deal with escelators on the back end of the contract to keep Mr. Gross a member of their team for years to come. We may be able to offer not only a larger overall salary, but also shorter contract terms and a much more front loaded contract. These are things we would love to discuss with your client.
Thanks,
KC Chiefs.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Oct 30, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay
you obviously didnt get my point on an earlier post
If sucha letter was written, and Gross chose to stay in Carolina REGARDLESS of the raise, would we hear about it? And the answer is NO.
Phone call or letter, it doesnt matter. If Gross was already in contract negotiations with Carolina, then he wanted to be in Carolina. Carolina has a better team than the Chiefs, they have nice weather, hes going to be paid MILLIONS of dollars no matter where he chooses to play.
Point is, we didnt have a chance with gross, and IF we even made an attempt on him (which is pretty unlikely) we never would have heard about it. We dont hear about every phone call and letter that Pioli makes/sends.
http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/02/19/jordan-gross-confirms-panthers-contract/
“It was tough, because they had a number they wanted to stay within,” Gross said. "But if I go into the (free agent) market, the sky would have been the limit.
“I took a cut to stay here, but it was important for me to be in a place I wanted to be, and to make sure we were able to have a competitive team.”
There you have it. Proof from the man himself. He took a paycut, even though he is still 1 of the highest paid OL in the league, and also the highest paid Panther in franchise history, because he WANTS to be in Carolina.
by Petey14 on Oct 30, 2009 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mentioned
2 scenarios, 1 which Waters wasnt involved. If Waters stays for a year, then we have another year to replace him..with a younger player.
by Petey14 on Oct 28, 2009 4:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Young warrior on D
That first round pick needs to be spent on an impact defensive player. I know the offensive line is a problem, but our linebackers and safeties need a big upgrade. A young agressive linebacker who can get after the QB can have a huge impact. Our D cannot continue to get beat week after week and expect to have a winning season next year. O-line upgrades can be had in the 2nd round. There are a number of decent safeties that will be available in round 4 and beyond.
by chief66 on Oct 27, 2009 9:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Our def always gets killed by the big play. I think that’s where a game changing safety like Berry or Mays makes a monumental impact. I’m tired of our guys up front forcing third and long only to see us give up a 51 yard pass.
I'm officially on the 'Draft Eric Berry' train.
by scottbwalters on Oct 27, 2009 10:49 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
agree with the safety
i am not sure our lb’s are the problem. we do need a stud in the secondary
by NCchief65 on Oct 27, 2009 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeppers.
Be nice to have that LB Singletary has, but I’d rather see one or more impact DBs.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 27, 2009 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
from ole miss?
i think everyone on this sight would love a beast linebacker…#58 he was fun to watch
by NCchief65 on Oct 27, 2009 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he was. And great secondary let him pin his ears back.
DT was never that great at coverage, but freed by great D-Line and secondary to roam and attack any gap he wanted, whenever he wanted, he just blew up offenses.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 27, 2009 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brodie starting
I’m fully prepared for people jumping down my throat for saying this, but if Cassel continues to regress this year, I think Brodie should start. LET ME FINISH! I honestly think Cassel is the QBOTF, but I’d hate him to go all “Jake Delhomme” on us, where he is so rattled, and his phyche is shot that he would never be able to rebound. We all know the reason he’s struggled, whether it be the O-Line, playcalling, lack of talent around him…bla bla bla, its all been disected at nauseum. I hope Haley and Pioi won’t let there ego get in the way and admit, they effed up on the O-Line, lets not get our Qback killed, physically or psychologically.
Best case scenario? Brodie comes in and plays well. If this does happen, I still give Cassel back the keys to the car next year with a rebuilt O-line and some more playmakers around him, and maybe we could flip Brodie to a QB starved team like Carolina who doesn’t have a 1st round draft pick to draft one.
I ♥ Dick Vermeil
by craig in calgary on Oct 27, 2009 10:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
once again I agree with you about Brodie.....
Make him the starter ASAP!!
The sooner he goes down with his “season ending injury-tm” the sooner we can stop listening to or reading comments about starting Brodie over anyone else.
Guiterrez is a better option than than Brodie. Someone leave the mop bucket out on the locker room floor so that Brodie can trip over it already please. Besides, that guy can ride a stationary bike like a BEAST!! Get him on that bike soon, it plays right to his skill set.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Oct 27, 2009 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh. I say keep Brodie in the wings.
He’s a decent QB who probably would have all the developmental problems we’re worrying about Cassel having if he WERE thrown to the wolves. As the O-Line matures (Let’s assum, for the sake of argument, that it does), and Cassel IS crippled by his traumatic experiences in KC, Croyle could be VERY good, with all the pieces in place around him.
He has a quick release, great footwork, and a rifle for an arm. If there WERE a pocket, he’d be a playoff-caliber QB.
Myself, once the Cassel deal was made, I’d’ve stuck with Thigpen #2, with Croyle #3, and just go MAULER up front, with a pair of blocking TEs and MAYbe a pass-catcher, to round TE out at 3. Run a straight-ahead offense, with a twist of shake ‘n’ bake at QB. It was kinda what I expected from Haley, but I actually believed he meant it when he said he’d be happy with 4 yards and a cloud of dust, which he could’ve achieved with the core players in place, plus a few modest blocking TE moves…
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 27, 2009 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
His confidence
would be shot by taking him out.
by Petey14 on Oct 28, 2009 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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