Cassel again
by Peterman700 on Oct 26, 2009 3:07 AM CDT
92 comments
I said it before and I will say it again, Matt Cassel sucks.
He looks completely lost. Even when he had time to make a throw he couldn't throw the ball accurately or in a spot that the receiver could actually catch it. Does he have some positives? Yes, he does. His positives are size, mobility and leadership. I agree. However the problem with Cassel is that he is not a number one QB. The Chiefs will not admit this error. So expect more awful offense. Until Pioli and Haley realize that Cassel is NOT the QB of the future, the Chiefs offense will stagnate and suffer.
Put Croyle in, he can't do much worse.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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Wow...
what a brilliant post. Yeah lets go with Croyle who hasn’t done squat since he has been here instead of the proven commodity. You don’t know what you are talking about. I saw too much from that kid last year in New England to dish him off as a bad player. Offense is all about rhythm and finding your stride. The man has no protection, no running game to fall back on, and no real receiving threats w/ the exception of D Bowe. And don’t give me the “he had a good offensive line, Wes Welker, and Randy Moss in New England!” routine. Hey, here is an idea: Lets get this guy a good offensive line, a Welker and Moss! Thank god you are not coaching this team.
by I_Bleed_Red. on Oct 26, 2009 5:15 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I was ready to jump off the Cassel train yesterday,
but then I went back and checked out the stats from Trent Green’s first year in KC and saw that he threw 17 TD’s to 24 INT’s. Then, in his 2nd year that changed dramatically to 26 TD’s to 13 INT’s. What happened in that year to the team that caused just an increase in efficiency? Nothing. Just one more year in the scheme. There will be rough days in the NFL. It’s not how you fall, it’s how you pick yourself back up.
by KCJayhawk on Oct 26, 2009 5:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't check the stats
Watch the games. Green at least had pocket presence and the ability to look off defenders. There is no comparision between Green and Cassel. Not to say throw Cassel away, just don’t fool yourself into thinking that he is the next Green. Trent’s INTs were because he was trying to make plays. Cassel’s are horribly thrown balls.
Predictions for 2009:
LJ runs for 1800 yards
Bowe in the pro bowl
Chiefs D finishes in the top 10 in points allowed
Chiefs 10-6
by bonesjackson on Oct 26, 2009 6:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will admit in 2001
that I dont remember pulling my hair out and yelling at the screen, “What the F*&K ARE YOU DOING GREEN!?”, buuuut I was also like 13 yrs old then. I dont think Cassel is the next Trent Green, but I do think that he isnt as awful as he’s looked. Unfortunately, if I knew all the answers and how to get productivity out of him, I’d be coaching somewhere or doing something other than sitting in front of my laptop venting about my Chiefs frustrations. And the way it looks, Haley might be better suited for sittin next to me surfin the web too.
by KCJayhawk on Oct 26, 2009 6:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apples to Oranges
Yes, Trent Green was horrible his first year. People called him TrINT if you recall. The Chiefs also started 1-7 under Dick Vermeil and people were calling for his head to. Funny how history repeats itself, and the ignorant always react the same.
Trent Green also had an All-Pro line his first year in Kansas City and a running game. Matt Cassel has the worst offensive line in football and the Chiefs have got to have one of the worst rushing offenses (we haven’t even scored a rushing TD). Yes, Cassel needs to make some improvements. He had a bad game against a San Diego team that was physically manhandling us.
Go ahead and jump ship, but prepare to eat some crow. Cassel is a competitor. Games like this would tear some people down, but it will only make Cassel stronger.
by Nick Britt on Oct 26, 2009 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cassel CAN NOT be compared to Green who was much better and STARTED in college
Cassel is AWFULL look at the stats from last year he CAN Not throw deep he has no vision. He plain and simply sucks.
I don’t care who comes in but CASSEL is NOT the answer and I am sick of watching him. This team will not turn around unless we get a QB in the game who can THROW the ball.
Piolli needs to accept his mistake EAT IT and move on with a diff QB period.
I LOVE the chiefs, I am a diehard fan but I will not continue to support this team this year with Cassel starting. I am done watching him if he starts after the Bye I am done watching or supporting this team until he is gone.
CASSEL is a JOKE he is not a starting NFL QB, HE SUCKS actually I think he is worse than that it is disgusting watching him.
When an NFL defense completly stops covering the DEEP pass and you still cannot complete the throws THREE IN A ROW its time to get BENCHED.
All I can say to the front office is please get rid of Cassel so I can watch the team I LOVE. Otherwise its a boycot for the rest of 09 and I am not alone in this Cassel has to go.
by kcchiefstd on Oct 26, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good...
riddance. Kurt Warner doesn’t have to the strongest arm in the NFL, but he can still make plays. Joe Montana didn’t have that kind of ability either. He threw a lot of short passes in that West Coast offense. Go watch the Pats @ the Jets last year and see what Cassel can do with some talent around him. He threw for 400 yards, rushed for 60, and made a clutch play at the end of the game to win it. If you think thats a fluke, then you don’t know that he did the same thing the next week. You don’t know what you are talking about.
by I_Bleed_Red. on Oct 26, 2009 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL some of you have blinders on or something
there isn’t a QB in the freakin league that would be capable of a decent passing game behind this line. How the hell do you expect ANY QB to throw down field when he has multiple defenders in his face on a 3 step drop. I thought for a while why not go shotgun, and still the defenders are in his face in a split second. Want to see better stats, wait till the o-line is improved!
by Tooner on Oct 28, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know what
dont support the chiefs and dont come back when they improve
Youre a joke. No REAL chiefs fan will EVER turn their back on the team that represents Kansas City. I cant stand you bandwagon fans. And yes, you sir, no matter how die hard you claim to be, are a bandwagon fan. Thats ridiculous to say that you will not support the team because of Matt Cassel, when its not even his fault!
Cassel played great last season with talent around him. MOST young QB’s..including Flacco, and Ryan..struggle to throw the ball deep. Its something that you LEARN as you develop. Everybody says “oh well he had this and that” Okay..so lets go get those things! Lets go get an OL and a speedy WR to compliment Bowe.
EVERY QB in the NFL makes bad throws. Cassel makes some bad throws, but he makes good throws too. The thing about his good throws…hes making those throws knowing hes about to get nailed. Those 3 picks last week..1 wasnt his fault, 1 was his fault and the 3rd he got BLASTED as he threw the ball.
But go ahead and boycott the Chiefs. Dont let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.
by Petey14 on Oct 31, 2009 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cassel played his worst game as a Chief, that's for sure.
The only thing I’ll say in his defense is the poor guy was bound to lose his cool eventually. The running game sucks. He gets hammered about every other time he drops back. The defense is giving up big plays left and right. The head coach goes for it on 4th down on their own end of the field resulting in an early deficit. His WRs are dropping balls left and right. It’s raining and the fans are quickly turning on the team because the play is so bad. So what’s the guy do? He loses his patience and starts forcing things. Was it a mistake? Yes. Should he have done it? No. If he played a perfect game from start to finish would we have been within 10 points of SD yesterday? No. The guy needs help. Last week in meetings Haley kept showing Cassel getting hit over and over in slow motion to try and stress to the team that they need to step up and help the guy. Someone needs to do the same thing with the tape from yesterday for Pioli so he can see how badly we need to upgrade the talent around him on offense. Then maybe do the same thing with Haley and that 4th down in the first quarter. Have him watch that about 20 times until it sinks in that he should never do that again.
It's a good thing Pioli and Haley aren't running AP or a lot of you guys would of been traded or cut for cast offs from the Pats Pulpit.
by KCporkchop on Oct 26, 2009 8:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You think Pioli doesn't know we need better talent on offense?
Well, I guess it is possible he just fell off the turnip truck, but I don’t think so. I think people in Indonesia know we need to upgrade the talent. I’m not sure why Pioli hasn’t gone to the talent upgrade website and downloaded a boatload of talent. I guess he could sign a bunch of guys sitting at home that 31 other teams don’t want either…
It is what it is as far as talent goes. Next off-season is the only time it can change.
I remember Dawson to Taylor, Kenney to Carson, and Blackledge catching the snap in his facemask. Seen it all...
by BinSC on Oct 26, 2009 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree he knows now
I do think he underestimated just how bad it was going into the season. I guess I should of used the sarcasm font. My point was that Cassel can only do so much with the cards he was given this season.
It's a good thing Pioli and Haley aren't running AP or a lot of you guys would of been traded or cut for cast offs from the Pats Pulpit.
by KCporkchop on Oct 26, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't that make Cassel a "yo yo" player Porkchop???
That would mean by Haley’s standards that he should ride the pine. Correct???
by Chiefsfan1970 on Oct 26, 2009 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, you can make that argument
My point was if the o-line is letting guys go right by them and drill the QB, there’s no running game, and WRs keep dropping balls there is no QB on our roster or available in FA right now that is going to look good. We clearly need to get the offense off the ground but the pieces don’t seem to be there to make it happen. So Cassel has to choose from playing it safe (which has been putting up no points lately) or forcing things which sometimes leads to turnovers. Cassel doesn’t get a pass from me, he sucked yesterday. I just think some people have the typical “2nd string QB” crush that happens when teams are struggling. People act like Brodie had this GREAT game against the ravens. He had one good drive. If you take away the interception and punt block our offense looked the same with Brodie as is does now with Cassel. At least Cassel has proven to be durible with some good leadership abilities. That’s more then Brodie has shown us.
It's a good thing Pioli and Haley aren't running AP or a lot of you guys would of been traded or cut for cast offs from the Pats Pulpit.
by KCporkchop on Oct 26, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh and...btw
Croyle is NOT the answer…more desperation folks….
by krayfish on Oct 26, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Chiefs set an NFL record,most roster changes in 1 season.
by bringbacktheglory on Oct 26, 2009 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
correct he is a yo yo but...
and I’m not on his kool aid wagon either, but I’ll give him one more year just like Haley and Pioli before I jump ship.
I jumped ship for 15 years before they fired Carl dumbass Peterson, so this may be a bumpy ride.
by krayfish on Oct 26, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying Croyle is the answer but...
what can it hurt at this point?
by Chiefsfan1970 on Oct 26, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Croyle's more likely to be hurt under these trying circumstances.
I say you keep Cassel, pay him HAZARD PAY for these first 3 years, while the offense is getting its shit together, and, just as multiple wives pinpoint male sterility, keep evaluating Cassel as the pieces around him fall into place. The Cassel critics will either eat their words, or it will be CLEAR that Cassel’s not the guy, and you can always dump him without penalty after 3 years.
The more likely scenario is that Cassel will prosper as the team around him improves, starting with OL. In fact, I’d make a case that the skill positions really aren’t that BAD, already, and would be good enough, with more consistency in the trenches to hold up their end of the deal.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Nov 1, 2009 12:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Always...
Someone to rush to bash Croyle once again.
Croyle has never been given an opportunity to play the position.
Every time he’s put out there the O-line was worse than it is now.
Croyle played one game this year, and so far, he’s the only QB on the Chiefs roster that looks the part.
[img]http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0eTH2sm73rf3u/610x.jpg[/img]
by Peterman700 on Oct 26, 2009 8:39 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Yes he has had many opportunities to lead this team and make it his own.
He is made of glass. you can’t lead if you always bleed!
by krayfish on Oct 26, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We gave him...
the opportunity to lose us 9 games. Listen, I don’t hate Croyle. I think he has a great arm, so I like him on the roster. That being said Cassel is our guy and that isn’t going to change for at least this season and the next barring major injury. Get used to it.
by I_Bleed_Red. on Oct 26, 2009 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He can't stay healthy enough to evaluate that properly
but I know one stat that stands out like a sore thumb “0” NFL WINS!
by Tooner on Oct 28, 2009 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the debate should be shelved until the o-line is upgraded.
And when they do, I think Cassel will show well enough to keep Croyle on the bench. But on a complete team, Croyle might very well make the most of some good opportunities, same as Warner did.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Nov 1, 2009 12:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta agree with Peterman on this one.
Cassel was horrendous yesterday and this time, you can’t put all the blame on the line and the run game. He was just really REALLY, bad.
It goes far beyond the obvious missed opportunities that we ALL saw yesterday and the blatant interceptions. There were guys getting open on quick out patterns and Cassel was not even looking in their direction. I thought there was a problem with the play calling up until I saw several times yesterday, there were plays that were designed for quick drops and Cassel simply, hung on to the ball instead of taking what the defense was giving him. There was not one single redeeming factor about his game yesterday…Nothing.
As far as Croyle goes, I still agree with Peterman and I will use the Jamal Charles play deep down the field as an example. Croyle would have made that play. Period. He would make that throw 9 out of 10 times. He has played under the same circumstances as Cassel and he played better in Baltimore against a defense that was MUCH better than the one we played yesterday.
It’s time for Cassel to ride the pine.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Oct 26, 2009 8:42 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Ugh
My ganja had erased memories of the Jamaal over-throw. Thanks for reminding me.
Now all I see in my head is Croyle nailing Jamaal in stride and him taking it to the house.
Damnit. He did look good in Baltimore, we had a chance to WIN that game..
by KCJayhawk on Oct 26, 2009 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You simply cannot bench the guy with the new 6-year $60 million contract. Throwing money away like that is what makes the Raiders the Raiders. Most Chiefs fans seem to agree that this is a season for growing, and not necessarily one for winning it all. Give Cassel a chance to grow.
He should definitely start wearing gloves in the rain though, ala Roethlisberger. I thought he wore gloves in the cold in NE last year. The Charles over-throw wasn’t a bad pass as much as it was a ball that slipped out of his hand.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John (obviousman) on Oct 26, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point, 1970.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Nov 1, 2009 12:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You have made this same post many many times.
Do you think if you keep saying the same thing over and over again it will make a difference? Nothing wrong with people having an opinion about something but you have made 2 post in 11 hours saying the same thing. All that does is take other peoples post away faster.
Chiefs set an NFL record,most roster changes in 1 season.
by bringbacktheglory on Oct 26, 2009 8:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Making a difference
Yes i do.
Because I am downright pissed off that the fans are supposed to buy into the fact that Matt Cassel is a starting QB.
He is making a fortune and has proven absolutely NADA.
I think it’s a complete mistep by Pioli. Sure I like Vrabel, but the Chiefs didn’t need this trade.
We could have lost plenty of games with Croyle and our pick.
[img]http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0eTH2sm73rf3u/610x.jpg[/img]
by Peterman700 on Oct 26, 2009 9:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I believe his 11-5 record last year proves he can be a starting QB in the league. Croyle’s career record is 0-8.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John (obviousman) on Oct 26, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Croyle looked better in the game against Baltimore than Cassel has looked all year and...
I’m sorry but, their defense is way better than yours.
Cassel missed a lot of guys going up against soft coverage. He made terrible reads, overthrew receivers and still continues to hold on to the ball, even on quick passing plays that are supposed to be 3 step drop timing plays.
When it comes to his contract, I don’t think any of us care about that. Pioli and Haley have made it a point that if a player is inconsistent, his job isn’t safe. Cassel has been inconsistent and I think it is a good idea to let him ride the pine while we see what Brodie can do. If it doesn’t work out, fine. But, I hardly think we can do worse than the bullshit we saw yesterday. I’m sorry but, the San Diego defense really isn’t very good and there is NO excuse for the way Cassel played.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Oct 26, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually....
The Ravens passing defense is ranked 23rd in the league and has been shredded by just about everybody. The Chargers passing defense is ranked 11th and has been fairly good.
Cassel can’t force the ball if there’s nobody open. That’s why he’s holding onto it.
Obviously, by handing him a ton of money, the Chiefs want Cassel to be their QB of the future. Benching him now could destroy his confidence a lot more than a few more bad games. You have to give him a chance because winning does not mean as much to KC right now as much as growing does.
Cassel was handed a double-digit deficit and asked with win the game by himself. He only has one good receiver, the running game was practically non-existent, and he was supposed to somehow come back and keep up with one of the best offenses in the league. It was asking too much of him. That’s why he threw picks. Not because he’s terrible.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John (obviousman) on Oct 26, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I disagree...especially about receivers not getting open.
I watched the game twice and I saw guys getting open on quick routes time and time again. he simply did not get rid of the ball fast enough. Jammer was playing SUPER SOFT coverage on the right side and Cassel could have capitalized on it ALL DAY. This wasn’t just the 2nd half. I saw this happening throughout the game.
I’m not saying Cassel should be a permanent fixture on the bench but, If Croyle can do a better job, he at least deserves a chance to play and find out because at this point, I don’t think it can get any worse. He might suck, he might do great, he might get hurt (which is probably the most likely) but, he is a very talented QB and there is no reason to keep fielding the trainwreck we saw yesterday.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Oct 26, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
YES we had WRs open ALL Day
Its not the first time either our WRs have not done a bad job getting seperation Cassel just does not find them. HE has no vision back to what I call him. Mr SACK MASTER NO VISION witch I can add No ACCURACY to that now since he actually tried to throw the ball verticly and we saw the results over throw after overtrhow and then 3 INTs he SUCKS.
by kcchiefstd on Oct 26, 2009 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You...
suck. Yeah Cassel holds on to the ball too long I will give you that. It is something he needs to work on. However, it is hard to work on your game when you have more on your plate than you should. You guys have the emotional intelligence of a three year old.
by I_Bleed_Red. on Oct 26, 2009 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another good point, 1970.
The kid stands in and delivers a strike.
My concern with HIM, though, is whether I want to put that talent in those “hit after the pass” situations as often and as awkwardly. He showed me some real toughness, but his courage might be better served in waiting until he has more opportunities to keep his jersey clean. I can see being on the “Throw Cassel to the wolves” side of the tipping point between Cassel and Croyle.
Hate to say it. Basically, I wanted KC to postpone major QB changes, because Thigpen showed he could survive an O-Line rebuild and I kinda wanted to see if he could keep getting better, and give Croyle another look, later, after the line had established something. Save that 2nd rounder for a more relevant draft pick, and set the table for whoever @ QB. Worry about QB afterward.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Nov 1, 2009 12:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Its either keep this up or DUMP OUR TEAM
Witch one is better getting the point accross this way or an EMPTY ARROWHEAD maybe that would get OUR point accross. CASSEL is not the answer. I am to the point of boycotting the season unless we change QBs Croyle Gutterez someone else I dont care just not Cassel he SUCKS.
by kcchiefstd on Oct 26, 2009 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
People who bring up this argument
People who bring up this argument know little about football besides what they see on Madden. Cassel is the superior player — by far, hands down, no comparison. He had a bad game. Our offensive line was beat up, we had no running game, players were dropping balls. Players have these kind of games.
Cassel is not a miracle worker.
by Nick Britt on Oct 26, 2009 9:34 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
that excuse didnt work for Thiggy, Croyle, or Huard
why does it pass for Cassel?
he was injured. injured bad.
by troy145 on Oct 26, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1 A man who sees the other side.
You’re making good points and not one-upping at the expense of truth. Guys like you are all over AP. That’s why I come here.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Nov 1, 2009 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Because...
Thiggy was a gimick, Croyle was a gimp, and Huard was a stop-gap vetern. It passes for Cassel because he had a hell of season in New England, he has the physical tools, he has the leadership. Bad point, bad comparison.
by I_Bleed_Red. on Oct 26, 2009 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh brother
he was injured. injured bad.
by troy145 on Oct 27, 2009 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be OK with Thigpen-Huard-Croyle
until things settled down. I think Huard’s probably better than most folks think, and, sorry to say, as long as you can’t protect your QB, what’s to be gained by dropping a bundle on that position? Better to start the guy who can shake ‘n’ bake and get up afterward, maybe another prospect with similar traits on the practice squad, while you team-build.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Nov 1, 2009 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well nick
you can like Cassel and you can say what you want AND he MAY be the greatest QB to ever play. the point being made here is that you don’t get those accolades without earning them.
FAR Superior is a pretty unsubstantiated claim. Cassel is ranked among the worst QB’s in the NFL. Now again, he MAY turn out to be something amazing and special. But until he does, PER HALEY, we have to go on what we SEE, NOT what we WANT to see!!
And while it certainly cannot be denied that the O line is a big factor as are the receiving corp we have, Cassel has had problems EVEN when he has had lots of time. He is nervice. He IS jittery and is out of key. Regardless of how you explain it away, he is a PROFESSIONAL and it is his duty to find a way to rise above and overcome.
Haley is no exception here either. He doesn’t design plays that match Cassels young inexperienced talent level. Kyle Orton is no treasure, but under McDaniels who is a QB coach genius, Orton is excelling because the plays they call in Denver are suited to the talent levels of the players they have.
We should be 2 step release. Quick speedy quick speedy plays. We don’t. How many times is Cassel gonna drop back, act jittery duck and run?? Can no one see that this is not about one aspect? It’s about the whole damn building burning down. This team is pathetic from the top down right at the moment. AGAIN that might change but until it does, this is the reality.
Cassel is a toilet ranked QB. Our team on all facets of the Offense and defense is a sewer dweller. We suck really really bad all the way around. HORRIBLE. Shameful. This used to be a proud franchise in the sixties….it’s been an abomination since.
And Cassel is not our current savior and neither is Croyle
by krayfish on Oct 26, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm kind of like you Kray in this situation....
This sucks. I want Cassel to be the man. I came into this season with high hopes for him. I don’t want Croyle to be the better guy but, I want to see a fucking show!!!! SOMEBODY,PLEASE, SHOW ME SOMETHING!!! The only reason I am calling for Croyle to come in is to see how far he has come and how he will play when his chance comes up. If he turns the offense into something competitive, how can that hurt??? If there is a QB controversy, I don’t really see how that can be a bad thing at this point. I’m not saying that will happen but, right now, I really want to see some signs of life and I think Cassel is playing like warmed over shit!
by Chiefsfan1970 on Oct 26, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Croyle probably is better-suited for the kind of offense that Haley coached-up in AZ.
Probably better vision than Cassel, and the ability to translate his vision into reality QUICKLY.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Nov 1, 2009 12:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not trying to be arguementative but..
what about all of those people in training camp who were saying that croyle out played cassel. Are they nothing more then madden junkies. Just a question
by InternetCreditOffers.com on Oct 26, 2009 9:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not sure who "those people" are,
but the ones whose paycheck relies on the decision decided Cassel was the best choice. Since I have full-time job and can’t check up on them every day, I will assume they have much better insight into who has the best ability as our QB. They have spent a good portion of their lives coaching, analyzing, and evaluating players. I watch on Sundays, as do most of “those people”.
I remember Dawson to Taylor, Kenney to Carson, and Blackledge catching the snap in his facemask. Seen it all...
by BinSC on Oct 26, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
those wouldn't be the same people who have coached/drafted/signed us
to a 1-6 record would they? Cause I have a full time job too and don’t have time to check on them every day either, but I will assume they have horrible insight since they are currently as bad as Herm Edwards Chiefs. In fact in some stats right now, we are worse if that’s even possible. How much worse can garbage be?
by krayfish on Oct 26, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does seem like some of the moves were at cross-purposes, to me.
But if Cassel survives the season whole, with his attitude intact, then they’ll be ahead of the game for the longer term.
Face it. We’re Americans. We wouldn’t know good long-term thinking if we saw it.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Nov 1, 2009 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if those people saw Croyle panic in the 2 minute offense against Baltimore
Croyle has proven that he can’t stay healthy. Not in High School, not in College, and certainly not in the Pros. If croyle had been named the starter at the beginning of the season, I would literally bet you $20,000 that he’d have missed at least 4 games so far due to injuries. I don’t care if he’s a 25 year old Joe Montana, if he’s only good for 4-6 games per year he does the organization no good as a starter.
Cassel played awful yesterday, he probably could have thrown 5 INTs. He also has to endure an awful O-Line, no running game, and average (at best) receivers who are good for 2-5 drops per game. He’s also only started about 20 games in the Pros…he’s going to get better, along with the players around him. I’d still take him over 15-20 of the other starting QBs in the league.
by jmcgoblue on Oct 26, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And there's still a chance that Croyle could step up, at need.
He has some crazy-good fundamentals.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Nov 1, 2009 12:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't mean to get anyones panties in a bunch
i was just giving a factual statement regarding the “open competition” between the two. I am aware of BC’s injury history, and am not necessarily ralling for him to be the starter. And as far as the baltimore game, i don’t understand how a penalty cause by someone else that backed the offense up 10 yards translates into croyle panicking in the 2 minute offense, but everyone is entitled to their opinion and i am not going to bash you for yours.
by InternetCreditOffers.com on Oct 26, 2009 10:04 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Cassel is not a $13 million dollar QB
He is a $5 million QB with potential. He had more time yesterday to throw accurately than in any other game this year. He looked lost & scared & threw some horrific overthrows to some wide open receivers. Hell, a decent college QB could do better than that.
I’m sorry, but Cassel is not a franchise QB,.. not yet. Nor do I think Croyle is either. At this stage Croyle is a better pure passer & when we get behind in a game by 14 points I’ll take Croyle or Thigpen over Cassel any day. Cassel had a opportunity to shine yesterday & show us what he is made of. All he showed me was disappointment.
by ChiefsChance on Oct 26, 2009 10:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
His base salary IS < $5 million per year
6 years – $28m guaranteed. Everything else is incentives. Not that I care about his salary, it’s not like we had to cut other players to get him.
Everyone can have their own opinion regarding what he’ll be able to do in the future, so I won’t say that you’re wrong about him. I look at him as a guy who’s about 20 games into his Pro career, with that in mind I think he’s doing okay. He had a really, really bad game yesterday…I’ll forgive him because I have bad days too. I still think he has a lot of potential, but obviously he needs to start getting it done constantly sooner or later. I expect that next season Pioli will have given him more protection, and better receiving/running options, so he will need to be much improved…otherwise he may well be a bust.
by jmcgoblue on Oct 26, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
More time to throw means very little when your receivers can’t get open. Shaun Phillips’ 2 sacks in yesterday’s game were both coverage sacks.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John (obviousman) on Oct 26, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that says it all ....your balanced and reasonable which is why no one here will agree
everyone here is stuck in this “you’ll see” mode. You’ll see doesn’t mean shit. You’ll see, doesn’t win games. This isn’t about who’s right or wrong as fans. EVERYONE on AP wants Cassel to be the man and lead us to the bowl.
but there are currently NO facts NO stats and NO victories that highlight Cassels award winning abilities. their simply not there. could they be??? Hell yes they COULD be. Hell yes they MIGHT be. but the FACTS are not supportive that Cassel plays solid consistent franchise QB even with time. Even with open receivers. I’ve watched him botch pass plays all season.
Those of you who are keeping the faith, good for you, there’s nothing wrong with faith. But some of us like to dwell in the here and now and in reality. Show me a single game with Cassel this year where he has played to the calibre of Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Brett Favre, Matt Schaub, or Drew Brees. Those ARE franchise guys.
by krayfish on Oct 26, 2009 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In all fairness
If youre going to rely on FACTS and not “you’ll see” then lets take a look at the facts.
Croyle: 14 games, 9 starts, 166 completions on 284 attempts (58.5%) 1,578 yards, 5.6 average, 8 TD’s, 8 INT’s 71.6 Passer Rating, 5 fumbles, 3 lost. 0 wins
Cassel: 36 games, 21 starts, 451 completions on 741 attempts (60.9%) 4940 yards, 6.7 average, 31 TD’s, 18 INT’s, 84.4 Passer Rating, 16 fumbles, 5 lost. 12 wins
Cassel beats Croyle in EVERYTHING. He has more fumbles, but a smaller percentage of those fumbles are lost. Croyle loses 60% of his fumbles while Cassel loses less than 33%
How can you expect Cassel to play to the caliber of Manning, Brady, Favre, Shaub, or Brees when all those guys have an actual OFFENSE built around them. ALL of those QB’s you listed have good OL’s, good WR’s, and a running game. We dont. But when Cassel DID have a good OL and good WR’s, he had a Pro Bowl worthy season.
The only way Cassel can have a chance to succeed is if we build an offense around him. I expect the OL to be improved next season, so why bench him now, destroy his confidence and waste the money that we’ve invested in him? He proved he could play in NE, he put up 253 yards and 2 TD’s with 1 of the worst offenses in the league. Cassel has shown flashes of what he was last year, but he’ll never be what he was last year if hes getting hit 20+ times a game. Why is that so hard for people to understand?
We should be happy with the way Cassel has played, IMO. Theres plenty of other QB’s out there who would panic, and throw 3 INT’s a game. He has a bad game and everybody wants to kill him, but we almost beat DAL and everybody was happy with him. Too many people here on AP switch up from week to week.
by Petey14 on Oct 31, 2009 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this has no business as a fanpost, but rather a fanshot (IMNSHO)
way too short and absolutely NO data or supporting evidence to back it up … nothing from an outside source and only the bare minimum of 75 words to make it long enough
mind you, I’m not arguing it’s wrong (or right) but hey, people … let’s do posts with some SUBSTANCE instead of a two-sentence “fed up rant” … statistics? outside opinions? something anything like LOGIC?
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 26, 2009 10:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree completely.
Chiefs set an NFL record,most roster changes in 1 season.
by bringbacktheglory on Oct 26, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree even more completely...so there!
IN YOUR FACE!!
by krayfish on Oct 26, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's an old topic.
But it brought new conversation, based on more recent facts. I’m OK with it.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Nov 1, 2009 12:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Logic
This post did come from downright frustration. But how would stats or outside opinions make this post more substantial.
We are being led to believe that we needed Cassel and Vrabel and in my eyes, I’d love to have that pick back.
[img]http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0eTH2sm73rf3u/610x.jpg[/img]
by Peterman700 on Oct 26, 2009 10:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Vrabel has been a good acquisition for us
Cassel may or may not turn out to be an awesome QB, but he is NOT helped by having a horrible O-Line and horrible play-calling to boot
for what we got and the price, we got a steal … a gift from The Hooded One to and old friend … not saying Croyle doesn’t deserve a chance, mind you, he clearly has a better/stronger arm than Cassel … Haley breaks up the season into 4 quarters, fine with me, this season is a waste and has been from the beginning, so why NOT start Croyle, all they’ve been doing all along is “evaluating” what we have so it makes no difference
to me it’s not “is Cassel that bad or is it the O-Line or the OC or whatever” but rather, hey … they never cared about being competitive to start with, so why pretend? give Croyle a shot the last 8 games and see how he does
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 26, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yah, they flat LIED to us.
they had zero intention of competing this year. That’s the real problem. If they wanted to compete right now they would have been aggressive like other NFL teams were. We pass on proven players so we can bring used up retired players out of retirement? REally thats’ how we’re gonna fix this?? BULLSHIT!!
Upamtn is right….they NEVER intended to compete this season. This was all about checking shit out. Seeing what was up. Evaluating.
At our expense of course.
by krayfish on Oct 26, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too early to lynch the Don.
But either interpretation is bad for the Don. Either he intended to win and miscalculated or he was just checkin’ shit out and was disingenuous about his intentions. Dishonesty on the one hand, incompetence on the other. sigh…
Possibly the worst miscalculations were the earliest ones, starting with the Cassel deal, which looked pretty good at the time, but probably had some modicum of competence in the trenches factored-in. The writing was on the wall in training camp, though, when Old Man Haley came in, had a look, and talk shifted to “years” from “this year.”
So I think they were pretty sure, by no later than training camp, that they were in serious trouble up front this year. As fans, many (most?) of us could keep kidding ourselves that they knew what they were doing and that the problems we were seeing were going to be addressed, with some minor tweaks.
But Haley has said more than once that he pretty much expected to win ‘most every week, so far. Of course, how can he say otherwise before a game, and how can he “sell it” to his players if he hasn’t convinced himself of that? It’s a toughie!
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Nov 1, 2009 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's not a no.1 QB?
What does that mean? Is that like not being a no. 1 starting pitcher?
by NotAHippie on Oct 26, 2009 10:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Didnt Eli Manning throw 3 picks yesterday!
I wonder if Giants fans are ready to bench him for an injury prone QB in David Carr!
by A true chiefs fan on Oct 26, 2009 11:01 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Eli Manning won a Superbowl.
Matt Cassel hasn’t won squat.
I just read this post and got a little sick to my stomach…especially the Jamaal Charles overthrow.
I honestly believe Cassel is the QBOTF, but if he has another bad game, get Croyle in there.
This will deter Cassel from going in a prolongued slump he may never get out, and if Croyle plays lights out, increase his trade value.
That being said, the best case scenario would be for Cassel to bounce back and play well after the bye.
I ♥ Dick Vermeil
by craig in calgary on Oct 26, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In all fairness
Matt Cassel has won 12 games. How many has Croyle won?
Tom Brady/Peyton Manning/Drew Brees couldnt havea good season behind this OL.
I know that people are tired of that excuse..but its not an excuse. its reality. The OL is THAT BAD.
by Petey14 on Oct 31, 2009 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not about the picks...
It’s about terrible play overall. He missed opportunities throughout that game that would have kept it from being the blowout that it was. He has simply not shown himself to be good.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Oct 26, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not even Peyton Manning can win games by himself.
"I did not invent the wheel, I was the crooked spoke adjacent." - Aesop Rock
by John (obviousman) on Oct 26, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
The entire team overall play was terrible!
You cant just call out one guy for having one bad game behind an o-line that was make shift to start the season but this game the line was really make shift.
by A true chiefs fan on Oct 26, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The excuses about the O-line is tired.
Cassel missed opportunities yesterday plain and simple. The Steelers won a Super Bowl last year with a shitty line and a crappy running game. I am not comparing us to the Steelers by any means but, it IS an example of how a good coach and a good QB can overcome horrible play by the O-line.
Look, it would be one thing if it were just a 1 game phenomenon but, Cassel has NOT played well all year. I’m not really saying he’s a bad QB but, right now, there is NO evidence that would say that he is a GOOD one either. He has shown no ability to make the correct reads and his lack of awareness in the pre-snap is making him look foolish. I know this for sure, Croyle has a ton of talent and his arm and downfield accuracy is much better than what I have seen from Cassel thus far. The play to Charles yesterday was the first time I have seen a receiver get behind a defense all season and Cassel blew an opportunity for an easy TD. BTW: there was NO pressure on him during that play.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Oct 26, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Give it a couple of weeks.
Seriously.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Oct 26, 2009 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ummm
This post once again is about the Chiefs trading a draft pick (albiet, they haven’t had a good draft) for players a team would acquire when ready to compete.
The Chiefs tried selling us that Cassel is a “future” franchise QB.
I just don’t see that…..at all.
The Chiefs should be ADDING picks….as many as they can get.
I would rather have played Croyle or Thigpen all year and rolling out the losses.
[img]http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0eTH2sm73rf3u/610x.jpg[/img]
by Peterman700 on Oct 26, 2009 11:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I own a Croyle jersey and I still think he's the worse of the two
I’d probably rather have Gutierrez than Croyle.
But I’d much rather have Cassel that either of them.
by AngryJesus on Oct 26, 2009 12:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
A few things ive noticed about Cassel...
He tends to step up into the sack when he starts to panic under pressure. He holds the ball too long and takes more sacks which is why he throws less int’s…
by GHOST OF DT on Oct 26, 2009 1:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Before the game
Cassel had a streak of 122 passes without throwing a pick. Explain that.
If he’s so bad..and doesnt have an OL..how is it that he managed not to throw a pick to Phi, NYG, Dallas and Washington?
by Petey14 on Oct 31, 2009 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know the answer but, why did Gutierrez come in yesterday instead of Croyle?
by Spunky on Oct 26, 2009 2:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Because then Croyle would be on IR and
then they would have to go sign another QB.
Chiefs set an NFL record,most roster changes in 1 season.
by bringbacktheglory on Oct 26, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
which is the same reason we start thiggy vs Baltimore
Cus ol’ brokie was just gonna get hurt and he sucks anyways!!!
….oh….. wait…….
he was injured. injured bad.
by troy145 on Oct 27, 2009 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brokie?
Brokie lasted a whole game without getting hurt and was able to put together one good drive for a TD, now he is worthy of being a starter.
….oh…..wait……
Chiefs set an NFL record,most roster changes in 1 season.
by bringbacktheglory on Oct 27, 2009 7:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Matt Cassel in the huddle
Matt’s brain in the huddle: OK, I’m a leader, I can’t let the guys know that Coach is cussing me out in my helmet now, act cool
Oh fuck… Bobby interrupted me right when coach change the f^&%ing play again..oh damn
Matt’s thoughts walking up to the line: ok..i see 57 and the safety, possible blitz on my right side, do i call the hot route now? shit… Coach said don’t call audible unless I am 100% sure its gonna work. F&&% me F &*K me again, my palm’s sweating, I better throw a good spiral
Matt’s brain just before the snap: Why is coach yelling at me again – can’t he trust me that I saw 57 too? They paid me millions, I gotta suck it up and not fight back. He is coach, let him abuse me cuz Ive gotta to acting like a leader
Matt’s brain after the snap: WTF!!!!! its not just 57 coming, oh shit, i shoulda call the hot route, where’s BOWE??? I better get rid of the ball or coach will again call me names and tell me to use my F#$%ing brain
Matt’s brain after an incompletion: here comes the boo, great Haley is cussing me again for not calling the hot route, i give up. f%*&K this team, i’ll just do what they want and play along
Predictions as of 06.24.2009.
Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.
by 58 was my friend on Oct 27, 2009 12:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The Chargers game
was his worst game by far, but he’s done an admirable job of keeping his cool and not throwing int’s up to this point. Most quarterbacks out there would cave under the pressure our OL allows to get to him. He usually doesn’t. The guy has to have a line! Givie it time.
by hayoli on Nov 3, 2009 12:00 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
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