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Around SBN: Guest Blogger: Juco All-American Answers Five Questions

Are the Chiefs Becoming the New England Cardinals?

FILE -- This is a Sept. 20, 2009, file photo showing Kansas City Chiefs quarterback Matt Cassel leaving the field after an NFL football game against the Oakland Raiders,  in Kansas City, Mo. (AP Photo/Charlie Riedel, File)

More photos » by Charlie Riedel - AP

FILE -- This is a Sept. 20, 2009, file photo showing Kansas City Chiefs quarterback Matt Cassel leaving the field after an NFL football game against the Oakland Raiders, in Kansas City, Mo. (AP Photo/Charlie Riedel, File)

Here's a legitimate question that I don't really know the answer to: are the Chiefs developing a little bit of tunnel vision this season when it comes to free agency? Do you approve or disapprove of the Chiefs bringing in so many players from the Cardinals and the Patriots? Please voice your opinions on this.

It's interesting to note that five of the recent acquisitions the Chiefs made had some experience with one of those two teams: Leonard Pope, Mike Richardson, David Herron, Ryan O'Callaghan, and Lance Long. That's in addition to the moves the Chiefs already made for Matt Cassel, Corey Mays, Matt Gutierrez, Mike Vrabel, and the recently cut Monty Beisel. That makes for ten total acquisitions from those two teams in this season alone. It's also curious that a huge bulk of his other moves (Ndukwe, Alleman, Zach Thomas, Tyler Thipgen trade) were made with the Miami Dolphins, an inner-division team that Pioli played twice a season and that happens to be run by his father-in-law.

Star-divide

On the one hand, you could argue that Pioli and Haley know these players well enough to justify a roster spot. Haley knows players like Long a lot better than most teams do, especially since he's seen them practice while other coaches have not. Furthermore, it's not like the Chiefs have a lot of bright alternatives. Their job is to be better than the lousy backup options that they replaced. That's not a particularly daunting task.

On the other hand, you have to wonder if this tunnel vision is causing them to play favorites over outside options. Coaches and front offices sometimes have a tendency to become too attached to players they helped recruit or groom. I remember when Dick Vermeil insisted that the only major change that needed to be made to his 2003 roster was to change the defensive coordinator. I remember when Mike Solari became so attached to his players that he refused to admit that players like Casey Wiegmann and Jordan Black were much more a part of the problem than they were a part of the solution. It particularly bothers me when the bulk of these decisions seem to be made at positions that are of relatively little importance. I don't understand how bringing in Mike Richardson or David Herron solves the Chiefs' major pass protection problems. Maybe that's just me.

My gut tells me that this form of nepotism isn't good business and it leads me to question whether O'Callaghan was really the best player to pull off the waiver wire, or if he was chosen because he was a Pioli guy. That's particularly significant, given that the Chiefs had to use their advantageous waiver wire position to bring him in. On the other hand, my other instinct tells me that this strategy was the best Pioli could do, given that he entered the offseason game so late and without most of his own personnel guys. After all, the guys he brought in from other squads (Eric Ghiaciuc, Bobby Engram, Mike Goff, Amani Toomer) have all been major busts so far.

My feeling? I think Pioli and Haley have most definitely showed an overly strong favoritism to players they previously recruited and coached, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for now. Next season, however, they're going to have to prove that they can recruit players better from the outside.

Let us know your thoughts on this.

Poll
Do you approve of the Chiefs picking up so many ex-Cardinals and ex-Patriots?
Yes. Pioli and Haley know them well.
337 votes
No. They aren't paying enough attention to players on other teams.
251 votes
Neutral. I think it's equally "yes" and "no"
308 votes

896 votes | Poll has closed

1 recs  |  Comment 33 comments |

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Comments

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It makes sense...

those are two organizations the people in charge know the most about… Not only that but those are the players who will most be familiar with the system run in KC…

Its similar to the Royals only going after former Mariners and Braves, of course the Braves thing makes sense being their GM is from Atlanta, the Mariners thing doesn’t make as much sense… Actually all the parallels between the way the 2 franchises in KC are ran really is worrying me… For ease of mind I would really like for Haley to stop talking about a process.

Desperately hoping for Desperate Measures

by averagegatsby on Oct 2, 2009 10:06 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

4 out of 5 ain't bad!

“That’s in addition to the moves the Chiefs already made for Matt Cassel, Corey Mays, Matt Gutierrez, Mike Vrabel, and the recently cut Monty Beisel.”

If 1 or 2 of these new guys work out, especially at RT and TE, I’ll be doing back flips!!!

by florida chief on Oct 2, 2009 10:10 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

+1

Also I will take castoffs of teams that went 20-12 last year…

UCrawford doesn’t know football at all... Armchair QB's are awesome! Haley isn’t going anywhere so why blow a gasket over it?

by flyin_squirl on Oct 2, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

IF

being the key word.

by ChiefDJ on Oct 2, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why bring in an unknown when you can bring in a player you trust?

As a coach, you want players who will play hard for you. Haley & Pioli aren’t going to bring in guys who they think don’t fit the system. They already know these players, there’s no wasted period of evaluation, there’s a shorter learning curve, they will help the other players adjust, and they’ll be “system” guys – they know how the coach & GM want the team to be, and they’ll be able to come in and contribute faster and better.

So far, most of these acquisitions have worked out pretty well. I’ll take Matt Cassel, Mike Vrabel, Corey Mays and Monty Beisel any day. 3 out of 4 aint’ bad. Much better than Mike Goff, Ndukwe, Zach Thomas, and anyone else who hasn’t really worked out. The only misses have been minor – Redd, Daniels. It’s not costing us anything to get rid of Herm Edwards/Carl Peterson guys and replacing them with Arizona Cardinal/Pittsburgh Steeler & New England Patriots guys. Can’t you see that as an improvement?

by HTrayne on Oct 2, 2009 10:10 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Next year

I think that in year 1 it is ok to do this becuase you looked at these players all of 2008… 2010 will be a different story. If they continue to do this then to me that means they are scared to get outside of thier boxes…

by flyin_squirl on Oct 2, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

well beisel is gone now but

seeing that little clip of pope he will deffinitly help us in giving cassel another target and he sounds like a work horse

by redmedicone on Oct 2, 2009 10:14 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

A workhorse who ...

… doesn’t, apparently, do much in the way of blocking.

While I’m glad to have a TE who can catch again, with the way our line plays, I’d rather have some that can block.

by JacinB on Oct 2, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It doesn't appear that many players get picked off of the waiver wire this time of year anyway.

Pioli found a young less expensive tackle at a position of need. He knows the player so why not take a chance. Granted I would love to see some more help on the line and at receiver, but no one is grabbing the players that are available.

by Helmets on Oct 2, 2009 10:21 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The players that are coming in now are largely other

team’s cast-offs. What would you rather have 1.) an unknown commodity who is a cast-off or 2.) a known commodity who “may have some upside”?

by G.L. on Oct 2, 2009 10:23 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

What known commodities are out there?

UCrawford doesn’t know football at all... Armchair QB's are awesome! Haley isn’t going anywhere so why blow a gasket over it?

by flyin_squirl on Oct 2, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What I mean is, if Haley or Pioli thinks a player

they have had some dealings with may have some upside, why not bring them in rather than the unknown. Even if you “think you know” about a player you have never coached, it is a gamble as to whether they will work out.

by G.L. on Oct 2, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh got ya...

That is the way I feel as well…

by flyin_squirl on Oct 2, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The other thing to consider...

… is that when Pioli and Haley were hired, they chose to retain the current scouting staff through the draft.

Following the draft, several were let go, and a new staff has been hired.

I think it’s important to note that as the new staff builds their knowledge base and understands what works with their GM and Coach, it would be understandable that the players brought in early in the rebuilding process are those who are most familiar to the two men highest on the totem pole.

We’ll see more variety emerge as we move past this initial season and into the draft/free agent market.

Until then, don’t be surprised if the trend continues.

TD

P.S.- On a personal note, I’m OK with the new players coming in from two well coached organizations. I’d be furious if we were plucking the remnants of the Lions, Texans, or Raiders.

by Troydrake on Oct 2, 2009 10:54 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

+1

I agree. Our scouting office is just starting to get their feet wet. I expect them to start earning their money as the season wears on and in the upcoming off-season. Till then, I’m okay with cast-offs from franchises that know how to win. Its an instant upgrade over last year in most cases…

"Every day is an evaluation and if you’re not out there how can we depend on you? If you’re out there and you don’t know what to do, how can we depend on you?" Accountability -- Haley-style...

by Chief_Elmo on Oct 2, 2009 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's also the fact that they're doing more looking for players, right now, than they

would be if they were on a win streak. And of the players out there to make SOME change with, these are guys with which the organization is more familiar. Not a huge deal, and we probably won’t see nearly as much of this in the future.

But this sort of thing will be something of a theme, anyway, because I personally think they have good relationships with AZ and NE. I think there’s a certain “straight-shooter” aspect to this, too.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Oct 2, 2009 11:05 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Does it really matter?

Does it really matter where the players came from? The previous 53 men on the roster were not good enough as a whole. Who cares where the existing and next group of 53 come from, so long as eventually the 53 man roster is made up of players that can compete and win as a team.

by ChiefsFan79 on Oct 2, 2009 11:18 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Does it matter where they came from?

Great comment. Does it matter? It does if you play favorites. It’s okay to a limited extent, but there are so many cases in sports histories of front offices/coaches becoming too attached to players they coached or brought in. If you’re Mike Solari and you spent a million hours trying to teach Jordan Black to block, cutting him is admitting defeat. And to some extent, you keep him on your team because you like him moreso than because you think he can contribute to your team.

I think of Lynn Stiles, who for years worked in KC’s front office and relied on his buddies to give advice on draft picks. Because he was so focused on a select few players, he ignored a lot of other good players outside of his network. The most obvious example is Big Ben. Nobody in his network knew about Big Ben. Because he refused to look outside, he didn’t look into Big Ben either. That’s when he was caught in an embarrassing statement before that draft in which he claimed he had no idea who Ben Roethlisberger was.

by Jon Yoon on Oct 2, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nailed It Right On The Head

When you close yourself off to things that fall outside your comfort zone, all you’re really doing is limiting your options and your chances for success.

Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009

1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.

by UCrawford on Oct 2, 2009 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

O'Callaghan

I think he was a good pickup, New England or not. A star at RT? Probably no…but he’s likely better than what else was available.

As for their other nepotistic acquisitions this offseason, I’m not real impressed (although Zach Thomas can’t really be included in that since he never played for Parcells…Parcells cut him and he played for Dallas). Lance Long looks for all the world like the Jeff Webb of the Cardinals…all “potential”, no payoff. Beisel can accurately be summed up as a bust of a signing since he got cut (whether he wanted out or whether the Chiefs wanted him gone). Ndukwe and Alleman haven’t helped the team much at o-line. Pope is a marginal player. Richardson and Herron may or may not be useful, but the fact that they’re new here doesn’t make me think they’re somehow an upgrade over what’s already here.

I think it’s a valid question that’s been raised…can Pioli recruit from outside of players he and Haley have known? I’m willing to give them a bit of a mulligan on it this year, but if they’re still grabbing scraps from the Patriots and Cardinals this coming offseason it’s fair to ask whether they have any clue on how to rebuild this team.

Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009

1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.

by UCrawford on Oct 2, 2009 11:26 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009

1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.

by UCrawford on Oct 2, 2009 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Look at it from the players side...

The big unknown in this is we don’t know who the Chiefs might have made offers to who declined in the end to sign with the team.

It’s VERY possible the reason we’re seeing so many New England and Arizona players sign with KC is because the PLAYERS know the coaches and GM and are more willing to sign with KC because of those prior relationships than players from other teams.

The only guy they’ve had in I really would have liked to see the sign is Taucher. And that could still happen.

by CurtMerzFan on Oct 2, 2009 11:28 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

They're becoming THE

OAKLAND REDSKINS

False starts
Holding
Pass Interference
Delay of Game
Off sides

In the last 2 games, KC is really raising the level of penalties. To me, these penalties has everything to do with bad coaching (Todd Haley) getting all the players riled up and up tight. The guys are so frustrated when outmatched + they are afraid to loose their jobs to 2nd stringers when making a small mistake THUS they aren’t able to play the game because instead of focusing on the play at-hand, they worry about Haley screaming and spitting in their face and benching them.

Predictions as of 06.24.2009.

Larry Johnson will be a top 3 fantasy pick once again in 2010 (after a monster season in 2009.)
Dwayne Bowe will be a 2009 Pro Bowl selection.
Brandon Flowers will have at least 6 INTs in 2009 season.
Todd Haley will have a sideline shouting match caught on TV yelling at one of his asst. coaches.

by 58 was my friend on Oct 2, 2009 1:19 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

While I agree with some points

I dont agree with the full message.

Most GM’s and Coaches know the guys who have come out for the team, and alot of the guys who go out for the other teams in the division. Of course, except for the high profile players..everybody knows who they are.

Pioli and Haley are simply picking from the teams they come from because those are the teams they know the most about in regards to the players. Miami is pretty logical considering Pioli likely knows the dolphins pretty well and is now out of Parcells division. Parcells and Pioli will throw each other bones the same that Pioli and BB will. It just happens that KC is at the bottom so theyre helping Pioli for now but you can bet that Pioli will return the favor, should they ever need one. Hell, Pioli already paid off Parcells with Thigpen, IMO. Of course, that depends on what this undisclosed draft pick is.

by Petey14 on Oct 2, 2009 5:55 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Who cares where chiefs players come from; what motivates me to care what Haley or Pioli might or might not be thinking, wins and loses maybe? are we gonna beat the giants this weekend. I’ll be watching, and if we win, I’ll know why, and if we lose, I’ll know why.

by Enema on Oct 3, 2009 1:03 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

draft pick for thigpen is undisclosed maybe cause it’s conditionary? in other word “we ain’t sayin nothing till we see what you guys do with him. But you’re welcome to give the details to the press anytime you want.”

by Enema on Oct 3, 2009 1:15 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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