It's Time For Scott Pioli To Cut The Cord

by ChiefDJ on Oct 2, 2009 7:00 AM CDT in 2009 Kansas City Chiefs Campaign

When you get right down to it, business in the NFL is very much like any other kind of business. Often times its not so much what you know as who you know.

A well connected head coach will have access to high quality assistant candidates available that can make a big difference in the success of their team. Look at the type of assistants a guy like Tony Dungy had throughout his career and the impact they had on his team.

On the flip side, a coach with few connections can have a very difficult time finding quality assistants which in turn can lead to poor team performance. Herm Edwards is a good example.

So when Scott Pioli, with his decades long association with Bill Belichick and in-law status with Bill Parcells, was interested in coming to Kansas City there was real cause for excitement. Unlike Carl Peterson's network based on his time with the Philadelphia Eagles and USFL days, Pioli's is based on confirmed winners and franchise builders.

There is no question that those relationships have provided some advantages to this point. Matt Cassel + Matt Vrabel for a second round pick was an absolute steal no matter how you look at it. Getting a 2010 second round pick for Tony Gonzalez who only has another year or two left in him from his old associate Thomas Dmitroff in Atlanta was a good move as well.

But as time has progressed, the question must be asked: Has Scott Pioli relied TOO heavily on his known network and failed to take advantage of opportunities outside of it?

Let's look at the additions Pioli has made to the Chiefs roster:

Parcells Connection

Todd Haley	Former Bill Parcells assistant

Andy Alleman	1 year Miami Dolphins

Ike Ndukwe	2 years Miami Dolphins

Traded Tyler Thigpen for undisclosed draft pick

New England Connection

Matt Cassel	4 years New England Patriots

Mike Vrabel	8 years New England Patriots

Matt Guitierrez	2 years New England Patriots

Corey Mayes	2 years New England Patriots

Vince Redd	1 year New England Patriots

Ryan O'Callaghan	3 years New England Patriots

David Herron	2007 training camp with New England Patriots

Mike Richardson	2 years New England Patriots

Chris Patrick	2007 training camp with New England Patriots

Traded Tony Gonzalez for 2nd round draft pick to Falcons (GM Thomas Dmitroff, former Pats personnel man)

Todd Haley Connection

Leonard Pope	3 years Arizona Cardinals - 3rd round pick

Terrance Copper	2 years Dallas Cowboys (Haley was WR coach)

Monty Beisel	3 years Arizona Cardinals (as well as 1 year with New England)

Bobby Engram	5 years Chicago Bears (Haley was WR coach for part of that time)

Bobby Wade	3 years Chicago Bears	(Haley was WR coach)

Out of Network

Andy Studebaker	6th round pick 2008 Philadelphia Eagles, signed from their practice squad

Ashlie Lelie	Free Agent - 1st round pick 2002 Denver Broncos

Jed Collins	Free Agent - Undrafted - Eagles, Bears, Browns

Travis Daniels	Free Agent - 4th round pick 2005 Miami Dolphins

Eric Ghiachiuc	Free Agent - 4th round pick 2005 Cincinnati Begnals

Tavares Washington	Free Agent - Undrafted - 49ers, Redskins

Zach Thomas	Free Agent - 5th round pick 1996 Miami Dolphins

Amani Toomer	Free Agent - 2nd round pick 1996 New York Giants

Mike Goff		Free Agent - 3rd round pick 1998 Cincinnati Bengals

Mike Brown	Free Agent - 2nd round pick 2000 Chicago Bears

Rodney Wright	Free Agent - 7th round pick 2002 Buffalo Bills

Think that's everyone, not counting rookies or rookie free agents.

As we look over the list, we notice that:

Of all the players Pioli has brought in from his arrival until today, 16 out of 27 players (59%) were from the Belichick/Parcells/Haley connection.
Of players currently on the roster, 14 out of 17 (82%) are from the Belichick/Parcells/Haley connection.
Of players that were from outside of Pioli's Network, 4 out of 11 (36%) could be said to be nearing the end of their careers (Zach Thomas, Amani Toomer, Mike Goff, Mike Brown)
Of players that were from outside of Pioli's Network, 7 out of 11 (63%) are not currently with another NFL team.

Its pretty obvious that Pioli is going with what he is familiar with. Nine of the players brought in were guys Pioli was familiar with from his personnel days in New England. Even if the guy only spent a week on the team during preseason, Pioli would have spent a lot of time before that scouting him before he was signed. The comment made many times here at AP is that a castoff from New England could be a potential starter for the Chiefs. That is very true. So the number of ex-Patriots should not surprise us.

My concern lies in the fact that Pioli seems to be reluctant to stray from what he know or what people he respects know. Most of those he has brought in from outside of his network have either been fading ex-stars or nobodies brought in as training camp fodder. The exceptions being Mike Goff and Mike Brown.

It seems though that Pioli, with one of the largest amounts of cap space in the NFL and a team full of holes has been reluctant to venture out into the unknown to fill needs. He has passed on multiple experienced offensive line free agents despite that being the biggest weakness on the team and continues searching through journeymen late round or undrafted options to protect his prize $60 million QB. He has also passed on a few available kick returners which is another weakness.

Now maybe the guys that are out there are not big time stars, but it won't take much to improve over what we have. If you're the weakest position on the leagues worst team, there's nowhere to go but up.

Unlike in New England, he does not have a Bill Belichick whose coaching style absorbs mediocre players into the collective to form a team that is always at the top. Todd Haley may turn out to be a very good head coach someday, but for right now he's a rookie struggling to learn on the job. He needs help.

I would like to see Pioli venture outside of his comfort zone and close associates for talent for the roster. Not just for fading ex-stars or no name rookies, but for some legitimate experienced NFL talent. There's no a lot to be found in October, but there are some players to be had. I'd rather give up a 4th round pick for a legitimate kick returner or experienced tackle than a 6th rounder for a handful of guys that are probably the 52nd or 53rd guys on their teams roster.

Poll

Is Scott Pioli leaning TOO heavily on his previous connections?

No, he's bringing in the "right" players

257 votes

Yes, he seems to be hesitant about dealing outside of people he's familiar with

306 votes

563 votes | Poll has closed

Tweet Comment 35 comments | 0 recs |

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Comments

Interesting Viewpoint

Not sure that I agree with alot of this type of thinking and view…

Quite frankly, we don’t know what deals Pioli has been trying to work out. Just because he didn’t sign a big-name, experienced free agent O-linemen (or any other position for that matter), doesn’t necessarily mean that he didn’t try.

Could be that those guys didn’t even want to try out for our team. They knew they were going to get big paychecks wherever they went, so they went to the teams with the most talent, where they had the best chance for the playoffs and Super Bowl. We sometimes believe, wrongly in my view, just because we have cap space, we can sign anyone. Some of those big name FAs care less about the $ and more about getting a SB ring…

I fully agree though, with what you said about “castoffs from NE”. Its been talked about over and over again, that our team last year lacked talent. So, to me castoffs from NE are upgrades. These are people Pioli scouted, so he knows about them. I’d rather have them, then others that he knows little about…

Lastly, Pioli just recently got his scouting office in order, with people he knows can evaluate talent. So, as the year progresses and in the off-season, I expect those folks will start earning their money. I am fairly certain that we won’t even be talking about “cutting the cord” this time next year. It just takes time to build a winning organization…

"Every day is an evaluation and if you’re not out there how can we depend on you? If you’re out there and you don’t know what to do, how can we depend on you?" Accountability -- Haley-style...

by Chief_Elmo on Oct 2, 2009 7:25 AM CDT reply actions

The grass is always greener...

Just because he didn’t sign a big-name, experienced free agent O-linemen (or any other position for that matter), doesn’t necessarily mean that he didn’t try.

I completely agree – we don’t know that he didn’t try to get some veteran guy to play RT, and the guy demanded too much money.

But we have plenty of money, you say?

Most of us will agree that Peterson’s biggest fault was giving big contracts to players with 0 or 1 good year left in them, so I don’t think we can make the argument that Pioli should have done ‘X’, or should have signed ‘Y’, because basically, we all know jack-shit about what’s going on inside the organization.

If Pioli had brought in a big money veteran FA to play RT, and that veteran got hurt, or just started to decline rapidly (i.e. “pulled a Ty Law”), we’d all be complaining in 2010 “Why’d we sign this old jackass to a big contract?”

Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl

by PVChiefsfan on Oct 2, 2009 7:50 AM CDT reply actions

Well it takes some time to get rid of the main problem

…and that’s the 80, no 85, no 90% of the “ready” guys that Herm and Carl brought in. That % seemed to fluctuate every week with Herm.

IMHO, using your connections is business. I’d rather he used his connections with NE and MIAMI (both with proven leadership) instead of keeping the 22 guys off the street.

There’s personal history there. I think we all would take personal (or personnel) advice from a friend before a stranger. I have no problems with Pioli’s connections/acquisitions at this point.

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.

by THE_TRUTH on Oct 2, 2009 7:55 AM CDT reply actions

How can we really know form any kind of opinion this early?

Pioli hasn’t even been here for a year yet… Maybe in a couple of years, if we have no improvement, we could look at this. But not now. As Pioli is trying to improve the Chiefs even the slightest amount as quickly as possible, it only makes sense that he goes with who and what he knows.

by Skrappy on Oct 2, 2009 7:59 AM CDT reply actions

I Agree With You DJ

He needs to cut the apron strings…but unfortunately I’m also not entirely sure any more that he can. I made a comment on another thread contrasting Pioli’s approach with that of Falcons GM Thomas Dimitroff (also a former New Englander) and noting how Dimitroff had started out with a team in every bit as bad shape as the Chiefs were. Dimitroff didn’t stick to his small circle when rebuilding his team. He hired a long-time defensive coordinator with no apparent ties to either Dimitroff or New England (Mike Smith). The assistant coaching staff he hired came from all over the league (none of whom had ever worked for Belichick) including a defensive coordinator who was retained from the previous regime’s staff. His players were scouted and brought in for their talent, not their connections. He brought in a QB but made sure that drafted and brought in free agents to put that QB in the best position to succeed.

In short, while Dimitroff and Pioli both came out of the Patriots’ “system” Dimitroff has demonstrated what should be the textbook way to rebuild a team (good scouting, hiring the best personnel for the job) while Pioli’s methods don’t seem to be any different from those of his predecessor in KC, Carl Peterson (stick to people you know first).

Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009

1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.

by UCrawford on Oct 2, 2009 8:11 AM CDT reply actions

And Haley Definitely Needs Help

It’s too bad that Pioli didn’t provide him with an offensive coordinator and QB coach he could live with for his first season on the job so the team didn’t get their entire offense scrapped two weeks before the season. Or that he didn’t tell his young, temperamental head coach that it was probably a really bad idea to take on three fulltime jobs himself.

Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009

by UCrawford on Oct 2, 2009 8:15 AM CDT up reply actions

Hmm...

Not sure that I agree with blaming Pioli for the Chan Gailey/OC event. That seems to fall squarely on Haley in my book — the HC identifies his team of Coordinators. Also, while I’m sure Haley discussed this with Pioli, ultimately it was his decision to take over for Gailey…

This puzzles me also: “…Or that he didn’t tell his young, temperamental head coach that it was probably a really bad idea to take on three fulltime jobs himself.” You may have some insider connection to the clubhouse that the rest of us don’t, but personally, I wouldn’t make that leap unless I knew for certain this was the case. Its possible that Pioli did tell Haley that, but again, its the HC decision. Personally, I was troubled also when Haley made the decision to take over all three jobs, but I’m going to give him a chance and the benefit of the doubt on this, at least until its proven to be a bad decision. I think the jury is still out.

On the positive side, I think its a good thing that Pioli is not meddling in the HC decision-making process. I also suspect that Haley is getting some help with OC & QB coach responsibilities, so it may be a non-issue.

"Every day is an evaluation and if you’re not out there how can we depend on you? If you’re out there and you don’t know what to do, how can we depend on you?" Accountability -- Haley-style...

by Chief_Elmo on Oct 2, 2009 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions

Valid Point On The Speculation

Its possible that Pioli did tell Haley that, but again, its the HC decision.

Actually, it’s ultimately the GM’s decision…one of the reasons Pioli’s negotiations to take this job got strung out so long was because he wanted the authority to be able to hire and fire assistant coaches if necessary, which is why he got total control of all football operations. If Pioli had told Haley he had to live with Gailey as OC, Haley would have had to live with Gailey as OC for the year (or quit).

My bigger gripe with Pioli’s role in this, however, is that he didn’t identify that there as a problem between Haley and the OC he retained on staff before the point at which it became untenable. Managing disputes between personnel is supposed to be one of Pioli’s jobs as well.

Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009

by UCrawford on Oct 2, 2009 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions

I don't necessarily agree with this...

Pioli’s methods don’t seem to be any different from those of his predecessor in KC, Carl Peterson (stick to people you know first).

Peterson was notorious for “rewarding” players past their prime. I don’t think Pioli can be compared in that regard.

Secondly, I don’t know that Peterson really had any strong “ties” that were apparent to any other teams. I think that the majority of us (speculating here) believe that if Peterson was around, we never would have gotten Cassell and Vrabel…he just couldn’t have made that type of trade.

Lastly, Herm as we know went to Clark to get the approval to overhaul this squad. Peterson never would have done that on his own. Pioli OTOH, is making major changes on his own which is a 180 compared to Carl’s track record. Carl was fine with “being competitive” and the status quo.

I have the feeling that anything less than a championship in Pioli’s mind isn’t good enough. He’s looking at legacy. Carl was looking at sticking around for 20+ years.

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.

by THE_TRUTH on Oct 2, 2009 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions

Mike Brown?

Mike Goff, Zach Thomas, Bobby Engram, Amani Toomer, Mike Vrabel, Monty Beisel?

The only difference is that Pioli wasn’t dumb enough to sign them to long-term deals and he cut the cord sooner, but he still went with old players who were past their prime to fill holes. If Thomas hadn’t played his little retirement game in training camp, then he might still have been here.

Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009

by UCrawford on Oct 2, 2009 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions

The only difference is that Pioli wasn’t dumb enough to sign them to long-term deals

And that was Carl’s modus operandi. Case in point, LJ’s deal which you and I agree was a mistake of gargantuan proportions.

In regards to the veteran player signings, we all realized these were temporary signings (at least I did), to establish a different mindset as well as change the culture to understand that they shouldn’t expect a “Welcome to training camp” sign" or “dancing in the locker-room video” during team meetings.

As Moss described the locker-room in NE (and we know his past issues), you never knew when the coaches came into the locker room whether you had just been cut. Ergo, I think those acquisitions were purely from a point of changing the mindset and attitude. Were they brought in here to put up pro-bowl numbers? Not in my mind.

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.

by THE_TRUTH on Oct 2, 2009 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions

Agreed

It was specifically stated after Zach Thomas was signed that he was a guy who knew how to prepare and how to win. Gotta have some of that on a team with little experience…

"Every day is an evaluation and if you’re not out there how can we depend on you? If you’re out there and you don’t know what to do, how can we depend on you?" Accountability -- Haley-style...

by Chief_Elmo on Oct 2, 2009 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions

Yes, But

He was also unable to take the field for most of his brief tenure here…he was done physically as a player and that’s probably something that should have been visible to the Chiefs before they signed him.

He wasn’t the worst possible signing, but he also wasn’t a good signing.

Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009

by UCrawford on Oct 2, 2009 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions

Wait

Lastly, Herm as we know went to Clark to get the approval to overhaul this squad.

I don’t know that at all. I’ve never heard either Hunt, Peterson or Herm make that claim…that Peterson got “cut out of the loop”. Hunt hasn’t come off in any way, shape or form as that level of micromanager. In fact, most of his actions indicate he’s extremely hands-off in letting people do their jobs.

Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009

by UCrawford on Oct 2, 2009 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions

This was discussed and I'd need to look it up

There was a media source that stated Carl was absolutely against the overhaul and backed off from the draft during (his last draft) which he had never done in the ~20 previous years.

Going over Carl’s head was the only way for Herm to re-build/overhaul the team. Again, this was discussed and debated and I vividly remember this as being an eye-brow raiser.

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.

by THE_TRUTH on Oct 2, 2009 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions

Just to clarify my last post

…it was in regards to Herm being much more active in the “war-room” and Carl not being very active (at all), after that we went 2-14.

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.

by THE_TRUTH on Oct 2, 2009 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions

AHA, found it on one of the threads, but the Star link was broken :(

It is/was from the Star:

Unfortunately the link to the Star was broken, but the post was here that had the quote from the Star:

After he took the Chiefs job in 2006, Edwards told his new boss that he wanted to purge Kansas City’s roster and rebuild it with young players. That wasn’t the way it had been done under Marty Schottenheimer, Gunther Cunningham and Dick Vermeil, and Edwards faced resistance from Peterson that first offseason.

Edwards waited. The Chiefs made the playoffs in Edwards’ first season, and some high-ranking team officials have said that was the worst thing that could have happened in what would become a tug-of-war between Edwards and Peterson over the next two seasons.

“I was always under the impression that they were friends; that’s why (Edwards) was there in the first place,” says Gil Brandt, a longtime NFL personnel man who describes himself as a friend of Peterson’s. “Then, all of a sudden, it was like (Peterson) wore out his welcome.”

Edwards went to Peterson again after that playoff appearance and presented his case to rebuild. Peterson declined, saying he thought the Chiefs might have one more playoff appearance in them before a rebuilding project would suspend Kansas City’s postseason hopes.

Then the Chiefs went 4-12 last year, and Edwards had had enough. He had been speaking with Hunt about an overhaul, and Hunt was on board. Edwards couldn’t get Peterson’s blessing, so he got the blessing of the only man in the organization more powerful than the Chiefs’ president/general manager/CEO.

“Clark,” Edwards said late Monday, “he believes in that.”

Peterson’s mistake was that he continued to resist Edwards’ plan. Hunt had adopted the notion of rebuilding as the right way, but Peterson kept prodding Edwards to shelve the destruction — at least in the complete manner Edwards had suggested.

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.

by THE_TRUTH on Oct 2, 2009 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions

Who Was The Author Of This Piece?

And when was it published? Because there was quite a bit of historical revisionism going on at Arrowhead Drive at the end of Herm’s and Carl’s tenure.

Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009

by UCrawford on Oct 2, 2009 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions

The Star link is broken

…but her’s the thread on AP

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2009/1/14/720386/dead-man-walking-the-chief#11409748

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.

by THE_TRUTH on Oct 2, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions

And here...

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=198506

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.

by THE_TRUTH on Oct 2, 2009 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions

Kent Babb, from the Star

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.

by THE_TRUTH on Oct 2, 2009 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions

I've been saying that for weeks - Herm wanted to rebuild, but ...

King Carl wouldn’t allow it (at first) and that cost the team dearly – ultimately it also cost Herm his job, when the reality of the situation is that Herm had AT MOST 2 years and, by all rights just ONE year with the (beginning) of rebuilding the team the RIGHT way

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!

by upamtn on Oct 2, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions

Rebuilding The Right Way

The three draft classes under Herm are all looking like busts and so were most of the most acclaimed free agents he brought in. You could have given Herm 20 years and he never would have taken this team anywhere.

Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009

by UCrawford on Oct 2, 2009 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions

Agreed on the rebuilding

The rebuilding “balance” of youth/experience didn’t work.

Secondly, the amount of busts (as seen by the releases this year and only 4 of them picked up), was astounding.

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.

by THE_TRUTH on Oct 3, 2009 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions

I Think The "Herm Went To Clark" Part Was Speculation In The AP Comments

The story gradually morphed from Herm wanting to start Brodie Croyle in 2007 to “Herm wanted to rebuild from the very instant he got here” (which he never once talked about in 2006). I think a lot of commenters wanted Herm to have had that much foresight and so they assumed that’s what happened and started presenting it as fact.

Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009

by UCrawford on Oct 2, 2009 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions

Correction

I never saw any indication that Herm talked about rebuilding in 2006. If someone’s got a link out there to a source from 2006 where Herm talks about the need to rebuild, by all means provide it.

Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009

by UCrawford on Oct 2, 2009 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions

And you'll NEVER get any "throwing under the bus" from Clark, Herm or Carl

I’ll take Gill Brandt’s quoted comments to a Star Reporter. Gil never disputed his statements (as neither did the three amigo’s) and if you look him up, he seems to be a pretty respected NFL guy.

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.

by THE_TRUTH on Oct 2, 2009 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions

He Is A Respected Guy

And I agree that there was plenty of dysfunction in the front office so that may have been the case. Of course it’s all academic anyway since Carl was a terrible GM and Herm was a horrible coach so it didn’t matter which one of them got his way because it still would have ended in them getting fired with no Super Bowl in KC.

Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009

by UCrawford on Oct 2, 2009 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions

You and I agree again UC

Regardless of some of the King’s “positive” comments by some about him bringing the fans back into KC seats, it became obvious that his primary intent was to keep fans in the seats by keeping the status quo ergo keeping his job.

I think that had Herm NOT rebuilt (wrongly I might add), Carl would have still had a position with the Chiefs (front office). Speculation I know, but 20 years is a very long time in pro football (actual virtually unheard of) not to have at least been to “the show”.

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.

by THE_TRUTH on Oct 3, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions

...by 20 years I mean as a GM

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

"My job is not to collect talent, but to build a team. Individuals make the Pro Bowl. Teams win championships. That is our goal."—Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.

by THE_TRUTH on Oct 3, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions

Save yer money this year

I think that Pioli and Haley wanted to be decent this year, but weren’t going to sell the farm in order to field an 8-8 team. They got started late. They really didn’t know what they had (evidentally not much). I expect they’ll be more active with the next FA and Draft season. It’s difficult to stomach this year’s team… especially when a head coach gives up and runs when down twenty points in the second half. I’ve got patience. Let’s find a few keepers out of the bargain bin… then let’s get the right acquisitions to be a good team for more than a year or two.

by Ozarks on Oct 2, 2009 8:15 AM CDT reply actions

I disagree

On all counts. Whether his connections to other teams, or him being “too hessitant” to sign players (are you serious here?).

He was voted top administrative person in the NFL by the Sporting News. The Chiefs rank as the team with the most personnel moves this season by a wide margin.

I think a lot of the angst here is that Pioli hasn’t pulled the trigger on some of the OL out there, some of which have come in for workouts. But, the reality is, that there have been a lot of personnel moves on the OL since the summer, and there are many changes to the group they inherited. You can’t build an entire OLine, 5-across, in one season. And most of the guys that are available are available because they either have nothing left in the tank or they are coming off some pretty horrific injuries in the twilight of their careers.

Do the Chiefs have money to spend? Yes they do. But you don’t go pouring money into contracts on guys that are going to only be here for one season, if that. They’ve already had a lot of guys in and out of here like that (thinking receivers and linebackers here in particular).

There is one last factor, and that is that it will be a little difficult to attract the top free agents out there in the first year of a rebuilding season. That takes some momentum, which is a luxury the Chiefs don’t have at the moment. For instance, if Mike Vrabel wasn’t packaged in a trade, he clearly wouldn’t have been here.

Pioli and Co have actually made some pretty impressive moves thus far. I expect they will get better and better as the team gets better and better.

by jcru on Oct 2, 2009 8:45 AM CDT reply actions

it's difficult to say definitively

if he’s hesitant because he has no ties to players, if the players aren’t good fits or if they just can’t work out a deal with some players. none of us know what talks are being had between pioli and anyone else so to pretend to know is very presumptuous, imho. i could argue that a lot of these “familiar” signings have as much to do with the player wanting to go somewhere where they can quickly fit in as much as our management only looking for them. one thing i will say is that if you have a group of players you are evaluating and thinking about adding to your team and all things are equal or even close to equal, the familiar person will be added every time. it’s human nature

Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman

by kcguy on Oct 2, 2009 9:19 AM CDT reply actions

Haley's comment bothered me, when he says of free-agent pickups ...

the devil you know is better than the one you don’t … that the free-agent or waiver wire guys they’ve been landing who have ties to Pioli or Haley (some very tenuous) are somehow “better” than guys they’ve never seen … that’s the lazy way of doing business, and while they MAY improve the team, they MAY NOT improve the team at all

if there are guys that Pioli and Haley don’t know, wouldn’t it behoove them to bring them in and LOOK at them just as much or more than the guys the vaguely remember from training camp in ’07?

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!

by upamtn on Oct 2, 2009 9:54 AM CDT reply actions

seems to me they have been bringing in people

for workouts in order to look at them. for whatever reason they haven’t been signing many unfamiliar faces but there have been several reported workouts of players and only god knows how many unreported workouts of players there have been.

Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
Harry S. Truman

by kcguy on Oct 2, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions