That Makes Half of the Herm Edwards Era Draft Picks Gone
by Joel Thorman on Oct 19, 2009 9:38 PM CDT
in 2009 Campaign
255 comments
With the trade of Tank Tyler to the Carolina Panthers, the Kansas City Chiefs now have 13 of the 26 draft picks from the Herm Edwards era (2006-08).
Tyler was a third round draft choice in the 2007 draft, and now that he's gone, only two players remain from that draft class.
Here's how the Herm era drafts are shaking out:
2006
Remaining: OLB Tamba Hali, QB Brodie Croyle, S Jarrad Page
Gone: S Bernard Pollard, CB Marcus Maxey, OT Tre Stallings, WR Jeff Webb
The 2006 draft isn't that bad as there are still two starters remaining and Bernard Pollard may have been the result of a scheme change.
2007
Remaining: WR Dwayne Bowe, RB Kolby Smith
Gone: DE Turk McBride, DT Tank Tyler, K Justin Medlock, OT Herb Taylor, TE Michael Allan
The 2007 draft is looking pretty terrible at this point. It looks like just one contributor remains as Kolby Smith has yet to practice since being on the PUP list. The team did get compensation for Tyler so that's not so bad.
2008
Remaining: DE Glenn Dorsey, LT Branden Albert, CB Brandon Flowers, RB Jamaal Charles, TE Brad Cottam, S DaJuan Morgan, CB Brandon Carr, OT Barry Richardson
Gone: WR Will Franklin, WR Kevin Robinson, DE Brian Johnston, TE Michael Merritt
The 2008 draft still looks solid.
***
It's something we've gotta remember around here when we're talking about immediate success (or lack thereof) from the new regime -- for whatever reason, whether it be talent or scheme, the Chiefs only have three contributors from the '06 and '07 drafts.
This thing will take some time, there's no doubt about that. But the Chiefs are stockpiling draft picks so they have the players they think will make this thing work.
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Wow...
Herm had one bad draft that year
by Wrestler189s on Oct 19, 2009 9:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
Maybe Turk and Tank workout in different schemes but that doesn’t help the Chiefs current situation.
It’s not necessarily all on Herm.
by Joel Thorman on Oct 19, 2009 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True..we are running two different schemes so i cant say that.
when i say herm…i mean his scouting crew. BUT they did work for Herm…
by Wrestler189s on Oct 19, 2009 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
herm still made the decision
I can only think of one time in his last 10 years where Carl overruled the head coach. i.e. Larry Johnson
by TDubb on Oct 19, 2009 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Other way around...
Carl was the GM and made all personnel decisions. He had full authority there.
by Joel Thorman on Oct 19, 2009 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carl let his coaches make their own decisions tho
He let vermeil ruin the defense and make the offense a powerhouse
by CALIFAN1986 on Oct 19, 2009 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah right
because wasting so many picks on defense ruined Vermeils teams… Or Carls scouts were terrible (and history points at the latter being the case)
2001 – Round 3, #75 overall, DT Eric Downing
Round 4, #107 overall LB Monty Beisel
Round 7, #212 overall, DB Shaunard Harts
Round 7, #243 overall, DT Terdell Sands
2002 – Round 1, #6 overall, DT Ryan Sims
Round 2, #43 overall, DT Eddie Freeman
Round 5, #143 overall, OLB Scott Fujita
Round 7, #221 overall, OLB Maurice Rodriguez
2003 – Round 2, #47 overall, LB Kawika Mitchell
Round 3, #92 overall, DB Julian Battle
Round 6, #189 overall, DE Jimmy Wilkerson
Round 7, #230 overall, DT Montique Sharpe
Round 7, #252, DB Willie Pile
2004 – Round 2, #36 overall, DT Junior Siavii
Round 3, #93 overall, LB Keyaron Fox
Round 4, #126 overall, DE Jared Allen
2005 – Round 1, #15 overall, LB Derrick Johnson
Traded Round 2 Pick for Pat Surtain
Round 5, #138 overall, LB Boomer Grigsby; #147 overall, CB Alphonso Hodge
Round 6, #199 overall, DE Khari Long
Lots of picks spent on defense
Can I be your Batman?
by IISaiNtII on Oct 19, 2009 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man, that's a depressing record
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
by Big Chief on Oct 19, 2009 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh the 4-5-6 rounders look the best in hindsight.
just saying
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 19, 2009 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whos fault is it that they weren't retained?
Can I be your Batman?
by IISaiNtII on Oct 19, 2009 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not blaming anyone
just the best of those drafts other than DJ was 4-6 round picks
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 19, 2009 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some of the worst aspect of these
is that some of the missing picks went for coaches!
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
by Big Chief on Oct 19, 2009 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
1 pick
and it was a 2006 pick, so that’s not reflected there at all…
Can I be your Batman?
by IISaiNtII on Oct 19, 2009 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought we gave up at least one for Vermeil
if not two. I haven’t bothered to go back and check.
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
by Big Chief on Oct 19, 2009 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, I went and checked
We had to give up a 2nd in 2001 and a 3rd in 2002 for Vermeil.
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
by Big Chief on Oct 19, 2009 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Almost...
The Rams would be awarded the Chiefs’ second-round pick in 2001 and Washington’s third-round selection in 2002. The Chiefs acquired Washington’s pick as compensation after the Redskins signed Marty Schottenheimer as coach. The Chiefs must also reimburse the Rams the $500,000 they paid to Vermeil during the past year
Didn’t know that though, so good catch!
Can I be your Batman?
by IISaiNtII on Oct 19, 2009 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've commented before that Pioli showed himself better than Carl
when he didn’t give up draft picks for an effing coach.
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
by Big Chief on Oct 19, 2009 11:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not neccesarily a bad thing to hit on later picks
but those guys went around the league a time or two, and the Chiefs didn’t get much in return for them… if anything. Hindsight is always 20/20 though….
Can I be your Batman?
by IISaiNtII on Oct 19, 2009 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We Could Sure Use
Scott Fujita and Kawika Mitchell right now. For sure Fujita is better than we have now…
by Skrappy on Oct 19, 2009 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Especially if we'd kept Donnie Edwards around
to help teach them the ropes.
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
by Big Chief on Oct 19, 2009 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can someone take this one step further?
How many of these guys that were drafted are still in the NFL as a current player, or left the Chiefs organization and played for a few years some place else?
by Chief1 on Oct 20, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup. ONE
I’ve been hesitant to jump on the bandwagon so often presented by some on this site, but I think I’m in now: Herm Edwards did a detrimental amount of damage to this franchise. Wow.
-cw
Watching the 2009-2010 Chiefs 12 hours ahead of you (in Taipei, Taiwan).
Twittering my every move. Don't act like you're not even slightly interested.
by webby37 on Oct 19, 2009 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LMAO
How many of Dick’s draft picks did anything for the Chiefs? I think LJ is the last Dick guy on the team and Dick didn’t even want him
Predictions for 2009:
LJ runs for 1800 yards
Bowe in the pro bowl
Chiefs D finishes in the top 10 in points allowed
Chiefs 10-6
by bonesjackson on Oct 20, 2009 12:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scheme change. Herm didn’t destroy this franchise, he just wasn’t able to fix what Vermeil left. Tank, Turk, and Pollard are all a DIRECT result of scheme change. The rest has to do with “we didn’t draft them, and they haven’t shown to be special in training camp, so cut them”. Can’t really compare drafts like this, because it shows a skewed picture. But Herm did not do detrimental damage.
by T-Rich on Oct 20, 2009 12:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Herm? Vermeil?
It is all about Peterson. He ran the organization…
into the ground.
"There are few secrets in football. So execute." ~Coach Stram
"I think it's the fans. The place is crazy. It's a good crazy, if you're Kansas City." ~Coach Schottenheimer
by Bad Medicine on Oct 20, 2009 1:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even if people want to blame Herm and Vermeil
Who brought those guys in and let it happen – Peterson. After Marty left, he constantly brought in people that he could control. And a big reason Marty left is because he was having disagreements with personel moves that Peterson wanted to make.
by vincent2668 on Oct 20, 2009 1:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where would the Chiefs be without Peterson? Do some research and give CP the respect he deserves, he did a lot for this franchise.
by T-Rich on Oct 20, 2009 1:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He had mine
until he worked against Coach Schottenheimer and further proved from there on that he was no longer worthy to be with the team.
"There are few secrets in football. So execute." ~Coach Stram
"I think it's the fans. The place is crazy. It's a good crazy, if you're Kansas City." ~Coach Schottenheimer
by Bad Medicine on Oct 20, 2009 2:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just because Pioli is shuttling out everybody that he didn't bring in doesn't mean they were bad picks
It’s becoming more and more clear that Pioli is working hard to ship out everybody that he didn’t personally bring in.
I think a lot of these guys will go on to have decent careers if they can get in schemes that work for them.
I’m very confused as to why Tank was sat on the bench. He was playing very well when he was starting. He had a career game against Oakland and then the next game he’s coming off the bench. Just seem like Haley and Pioli do so much knee jerk reaction to things.
by ChiefDJ on Oct 19, 2009 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not all about tackles...
That said, I’m not going to argue that I know how to evaluate DTs (based on what we can see).
And, you’re right about the schemes…in the right situation, I think Tank can be a good player.
by Joel Thorman on Oct 19, 2009 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. However, we don't watch every practice so it's hard to say...
I remember Haley being asked about Tank and he mentioned that he didn’t play with that nasty streak that Haley expected. I would guess that is a big reason why Tank is in Carolina.
by WesternChief on Oct 19, 2009 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's no DT in this Defense
Playing a 3-4, I think Pioli and Haley didn’t like what they saw from Tyler as a NT. They already have three guys who can play DT, Ron Edwards, Dorsey, and Magee. I think they probably feel like they can find a free agent right now who will be as good of a NT as Tyler was. Don’t necessarily disagree.
Getting a draft pick for a very, very small difference in production. Maybe even a increase in production.
by AlanSimpson on Oct 19, 2009 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly right
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t wait to see who that free agent is! A good NT that everyone else hasn’t noticed is unsigned!
by T-Rich on Oct 20, 2009 1:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the right situation...
meaning the UFL or CFL?
sorry couldnt resist. i do wish Tank the best.
by MountainManMike on Oct 20, 2009 1:12 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Tre stallings
Wasnt drafted by herm he was drafted by carl
by TonylovesKC on Oct 20, 2009 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Strike that
I mean Dick Vermeil along with Carl
by TonylovesKC on Oct 20, 2009 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope this Pioli guy knows what the hell he's doing.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Oct 19, 2009 9:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah cause Herm and Carl sure knew what was going on.
by WesternChief on Oct 19, 2009 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carl turned the franchise into a winner
and is the only reason most of us even care about this team in the first place..
For 18 years this team was competitive..Give respect where its due
by CALIFAN1986 on Oct 19, 2009 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He did...
he just didnt step down when he needed to….
by Wrestler189s on Oct 19, 2009 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He did, yes.
But he also turned it into the steaming heap of dog poo we have seen the last 4-ish years as well…
Can I be your Batman?
by IISaiNtII on Oct 19, 2009 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And in that regard...
He has definitely been getting the respect that was due.
"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius, in contrary to Glenn Dorsey lining up in the 2-tech
by ArrowSpread on Oct 19, 2009 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He didn't
Marty Schottenheimer turned the Chiefs aroud and is the reason most of us care about the teamto begin with.
Carl Peterson rode his coat tails and the wave of the ensuing ticket sales off Marty’s wins.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Oct 20, 2009 2:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It most certainly is on Herm
it isn’t like people are paying top dollar for his people, if they play at all after leaving here.
Hard to believe, but Herm’s apparently a worse judge of over all talent than he is as a head coach
The only measure of true success in the NFL is the Vince Lombardi trophy. Anything less is a rationalization.
by sm7600 on Oct 19, 2009 9:49 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Again
Just because Pioli flipped the scheme and wants his own guys does not mean they were bad draft picks.
Pollard and McBride are doing pretty good on their new teams.
by ChiefDJ on Oct 19, 2009 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
McBride is a waste of space
I’ve seen him play in Detroit too and he adds nothing
If Pollard is prospering its only because the rest of the defense knows how to make up for some one who bites on every play action fake in the book
The only measure of true success in the NFL is the Vince Lombardi trophy. Anything less is a rationalization.
by sm7600 on Oct 19, 2009 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that's why Pollard makes Houston's run defense better
And their pass defense about the same. Terrible.
"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius, in contrary to Glenn Dorsey lining up in the 2-tech
by ArrowSpread on Oct 19, 2009 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just watched McBride get abused this weekend by the Packers...
and their Oline is in shambles.
by WesternChief on Oct 19, 2009 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
didnt he get 2 sacks?
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He got credited with 1.5 but the game was well in hand and the one sack he got was during a jailbreak blitz..
after Chad Clifton left the game injured and the Packers had their 3rd string tackle in the game.
by WesternChief on Oct 19, 2009 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+10000
Most of you need to stop looking at the 13/26 stat and saying “OMG, Herm and Carl screwed this team up. OMG, they were so terrible, they ruined the Chiefs for life! OMG”. Different schemes and different GM/Coach WILL lead to roster turnover. Different scheme, coaching attitudes, etc. Read into this more than just looking at the face value of the stat.
by T-Rich on Oct 20, 2009 1:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it most certainly is NOT on Herm
in fact, the first 2 yrs Herm was here Old King Carl had far more authority than Herm did … last year was the only year that Herm really REALLY got the players HE wanted … and which of those 3 drafts has produced the most current active players on the roster? that’s right … Herm’s last year, the one where Herm made the majority of the draft-day decisions …
so lay off Herm, ok? you’re making accusations based on false assumptions and that’s not cool
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 19, 2009 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
Herm Edwards DOES have a good eye for talent. Terrible coach but a VERY good scout.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Oct 19, 2009 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and what ... EIGHT guys from last year still with team and MOST of them starting
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 19, 2009 11:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeppers. That was a great class.
I’m not real high on Jamaal Charles right now though.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Oct 19, 2009 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe if Haley would let him outta the doghouse and let him play more ...
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 19, 2009 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He didn't play well yesterday...at all.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Oct 19, 2009 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it was a ruff ruff day for him
"There are few secrets in football. So execute." ~Coach Stram
"I think it's the fans. The place is crazy. It's a good crazy, if you're Kansas City." ~Coach Schottenheimer
by Bad Medicine on Oct 19, 2009 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But he's a damn good evaluator
Of defensive backs. I give him credit for the secondary. With the exception of pollard not being able to cover.
by TonylovesKC on Oct 20, 2009 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
IMO 3 guys from a draft are about par
Just not one 2 years ago
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 19, 2009 9:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
2008 was a good year
Other than that I never really understood what the heck we were thinking with some of our draft picks. Still don’t know why Pollard is gone.
I have confidence in Todd Haley and Scott Pioli. It’s a lot easer to say that now that we’ve won a game. Sure, a lot of that confidence is wishful thinking, but they haven’t done anything in the past that makes me think they are destined to fail. Their resumes are not an issue- that’s for sure.
by bwelch37 on Oct 19, 2009 9:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
ok, you have me confused ...
how do you reconcile “I have confidence in Todd Haley and Scott Pioli” with “Still don’t know why Pollard is gone”
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 19, 2009 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point.
I think there are several glaring items from the recent past that make me lose some confidence in the new guys.
A-Pollard
B-Gonzo
C-DJ
D-LJ
E-the offense
F-the defense
G-the playcalling
H-The 2009 draft class
All those things make me doubt the quality of the guys we have in charge right now.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Oct 19, 2009 11:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't have an issue with the TonyG trade at all
A-Pollard wtf? still wondering on that one
B-Gonzo wanted out, give the man his due … one move I don’t question
C-DJ play him, please
D-LJ sit his slowboat ass down, please
E-the offense what offense?
F-the defense what defense?
G-the playcalling see A above (wtf?)
H-The 2009 draft class ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 20, 2009 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One of the best movies of all time!
and yes…a very appropriate comment! I just want to see some good solid impact players. Get tired of seeing rookies make an instant impact on teams.
by casselreadychiefs on Oct 19, 2009 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hell yeah!
Wrecked
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
by Buck'O on Oct 19, 2009 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well that shows how ultimately terrible Cherm was
good riddance..it will take the same amount of time to rebuild…again as it took for Cherm to destroy this team.
by Ren on Oct 19, 2009 10:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Please don’t be ignorant. Stop looking at the 13/26, and actually do some research. Herm didn’t destroy this team, he just wasn’t a miracle worker in fixing what Vermeil left.
by T-Rich on Oct 20, 2009 1:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All I want to say is that Ren and Stimpy is the bomb.
I got all three seasons on DVD.
by Primussux on Oct 20, 2009 2:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish him the best
he was playing well in a position he wasn’t suited for, no harm no foul. He did his best and now he has a chance to try and shine again.
I just hope the Chiefs got fair compensation from a desperate team in need… and when I say fair, I mean I hope the Chiefs got a 4th or higher for a guy who wasn’t too bad.
Can I be your Batman?
by IISaiNtII on Oct 19, 2009 10:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
just read it was a 5th round pick
eh. i’m not pleased or displeased i guess. Wish they could have gotten more, but get what you get and don’t throw a fit.
Can I be your Batman?
by IISaiNtII on Oct 19, 2009 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea
i was hoping it was for a 4th too because i thought Tank was doing good for a guy who is built for a 4-3. But cant complain. Lets hope the Panthers suck this year so we can get a high 5th
by Wrestler189s on Oct 19, 2009 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pioli Got Al Davised
Face it Pioli got hosed on this. He was drafted 2 years ago in the 3rd and he has good production this year. Its sad really, Im starting to think Bill Belechick made most of the personel decisions. What do we gain from this trade? Unless we trade that pick in a package to get a very good player it is an epic fail. Do you guys really think we will match Tanks productoion with a 5th round pick?
by darwithabar on Oct 19, 2009 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nothing "epic" about it
Pollard …. NO comp
McBride … .NO comp
Tank… 5th round pick… reasonable value
Thigpen…5th round pick… reasonable value
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If tank was worth a 5th than
i think Pollard was worth a 5th…
by Wrestler189s on Oct 19, 2009 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that I agree with
the difference is that someone offered a 5th for tank…
no takers for Pollard
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Worth" is not a simple thing
You may think your doodle is a magnificent piece of art worth millions, but it’s not if no one is willing to pay that.
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
by Big Chief on Oct 19, 2009 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
or just nobody needed a SS at the time...
My doodle is worth millions…just nobody may need it right now lol jk.
by Wrestler189s on Oct 19, 2009 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
your doodle doesn't fit in my 3-4 doodle system
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nobody was hurting for a SS
Like Carolina is hurting for a DT.
Penn State to Kansas City...Always a winning combination.
by YNinja on Oct 20, 2009 2:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There was a rumor that we at least tried to get a pick for Pollard.
But, no one wanted to trade a pick for him.
by Primussux on Oct 20, 2009 2:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Thigpen is worth a 5th then
Tank is worth a 2nd or 3rd. Thigpen is HORRIBLE. His feet are great and keeps you wanting to watch the game, but he downright sucks at throwing the ball.
by TonylovesKC on Oct 20, 2009 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You dont trade a 3rd rounder with production....
for a 5th round pick. Name one instance also where a QB who threw 18 tds the year before was traded for a 5th round pick. This is bad way to build a team.
by darwithabar on Oct 19, 2009 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This may come as a surprise
but Tank isn’t a QB
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
by Big Chief on Oct 19, 2009 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read the post I replied to....
Dont be a jack ass I was talking about Thigpen
by darwithabar on Oct 19, 2009 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My bad - busy thread - I misread the indent
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
by Big Chief on Oct 19, 2009 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
if a player isn’t your starter, and isnt’ a perfect fit for your system… why not get a 5th round pick for him?
the Pats have made lots of trades like this, and are a better team for it
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it makes for trading up bargaining power in next years draft
or at least bargaining power for moving around to get the people you want.
Like I said, I’m not excited, but they got what they could. And we know they were shopping Pollard around before releasing him. How long did he sit before getting picked up? (Not to mention he passed through waivers)
Can I be your Batman?
by IISaiNtII on Oct 19, 2009 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and
I’d rather get a 5th for him now, than have to release him for nothing after the season
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why release him at the end of the season when you have no depth
by darwithabar on Oct 19, 2009 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
to sign a TRUE Nose Tackle
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not a perfect fit for your system?
He has 22 tackles and looked better then Ron Edwards. Dont defend him out of hope or what he did in NE. Im not saying this trade is Doom and Gloom for the Chiefs but it does nothing to help the Chiefs and removes arguably our 2nd best DL for nothing. He has played better then anyone but Dorsey thats a fact.
by darwithabar on Oct 19, 2009 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
again, I disagree
he wasn’t a prototypical NT…
I do like Tank, and he did an admirable job… but he wasn’t better than Dorsey, and wasn’t even starting.
He did OK this year, but they obviously have another backup NT that can be signed to make up for Tank’s “production”
so, getting a 5th isn’t bad
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He had 22 tackles and only started 2 games...
I said he was the 2nd best defensive linemen on are team. Nothing can justify this trade. He is 14th amnong defensive linemen in tackles, while I know tackles arent everything, he only started 2 games.
by darwithabar on Oct 19, 2009 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He played whether he started or not
so 6 games
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 19, 2009 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He didnt play as much as the starter thats my point.
by darwithabar on Oct 19, 2009 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
than you shouldn't
have a problem with our trading a reserve for a 5th. Whomever we sign to take Tank’s place as a backup NT can be added to the 5th rd. pick & we are getting 2 players for 1 with very little drop in production.
I like the trade.
by ttownmikey on Oct 19, 2009 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How can you say with very little drop of production...
we are getting a drop in production wih Ron Edwards.
by darwithabar on Oct 19, 2009 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
a 5th for a guy taken as a reach in the 3rd, 3 years in the league with subpar abilities I’d take that anyday.
Just like TG for a second, been in the league for 13 years and we got him in the first round. That’s a great deal. You barely lose value at all.
Pioli would rather have his guy as the 5th so he at least knows what to expect and he can help the guy shape the team.
by TonylovesKC on Oct 20, 2009 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the fact that he only started 2 games is partial justification
he’s a backup at this point… geting draft picks out of replaceable backups is smart football business.
especially when he doesn’t fit exactly what the coaches want in a NT
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont agree...
Do you think the Patriots would trade a 3rd round pick from 2 yrs ago for a 5th. You cant honestly tell me you beleive that.
by darwithabar on Oct 19, 2009 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
absolutely
I’m sure they have done so
and they’ve released high picks when they weren’t a good fit
you’re hung up on his draft status… that doesnt’ matter at this point, it’s about what other teams are willing to give for him
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chad Jackson Who else...
They dont do it… I understand he was from the Herm era, but he has shown he can play. I wasnt mad when Turk got released because I honestly beleive he wouldntt fit.
by darwithabar on Oct 19, 2009 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm sure they do
but I don’t feel like researching it at the moment
:)
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do know they traded a 4th round pick for TE Alex Smith
And then cut his ass. So yeah, I think they would.
Penn State to Kansas City...Always a winning combination.
by YNinja on Oct 20, 2009 2:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has...
but a 5th for a guy who isnt “the right 53” is not too bad.
by Wrestler189s on Oct 19, 2009 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Right 53....
The right 53 obviously isnt neccesarily right because they arent performing. So that is irrelvant. I dont beleive we have seen the “right” 53.
by darwithabar on Oct 19, 2009 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and thats why we are getting draft picks because hopefully
we will find some in the draft
by Wrestler189s on Oct 19, 2009 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're right about one thing
we haven’t seen the right 53 yet.
it’s a work in progress…
obviously…
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me first say im sorry if im comimg off wrong stag..
I just think Chief fans are giving credit where it is not due, I even catch myself doing it. My point is I beleive a desperate team like the Panthers would have given a 4th which would have been reasonable. I feel like Pioli was hyped up to be this trade machine that always came up on top but to me he is getting hosed.
by darwithabar on Oct 19, 2009 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Getting hosed would be trading DJ
or Bowe or Dorsey for a 3 or less.
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 19, 2009 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
but (according to some here) since DJ is "just" a backup ...
… we should be happy to trade him for a 5th rounder
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 20, 2009 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd take a 5th for DJ
He was a NON-FACTOR against Washington.
Penn State to Kansas City...Always a winning combination.
by YNinja on Oct 20, 2009 2:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no problem, it's a good debate
but, he’s not getting hosed
getting hosed is cutting players for no comp
he’s essentially getting a mid round pick for a mid round pick that hasn’t become a superstar or even a star.
he’s a solid backup DT at this point, or a starter at DT for a weak defense… but he’s not your prototype NT, which is what the Chiefs apparently want.
I thought he played ok, and I didn’t think they would have to go get a NT… but, obviously they got what they considered a good offer and took it
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought about this and didnt like it....at first
but if you look at it, we need to stock pile on draft picks for a huge draft next year. Plus, we will upgrade somewhere in the draft that could be better than edwards AND tank. I wanted at least a 4th for him, but like you said the panthers are desperate….that means that they need draft picks too and a 4th might have been stretching it for a struggling team.
It will be a high 5th so dont worry, if somebody falls that should go in the 4th but makes it to the 5th, we could get him.
by Wrestler189s on Oct 19, 2009 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No. You're wrong.
Think about this logically. Do you really think Pioli wakes up every day, adjusts his tie, and says to himself “You trade machine you!”…????
Really? He’s a GM looking for ways to better a team, and Tank didn’t play up to standards so they got him for a 5th, and they’ll use that 5th on something they believe will help the team better than Tank helped us.
by TonylovesKC on Oct 20, 2009 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You win
We have not seen it yet.
We only have 52 at present
and whoever is not going to complete the 53.
We will NEVER have the 53 cause we will always be upgrading.
Even after 3 SB wins we will be looking for the Grail
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 19, 2009 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No team will ever have the right 53 forever...
thats why you have to keep upgrading.
by Wrestler189s on Oct 19, 2009 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep.
and there’s no way they would have made this trade if they didn’t feel it would allow for an upgrade
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok who is the upgrade?
If you say one of those 3 bums we braught in is Ill come to where you are at this present time and laugh at you.
by darwithabar on Oct 19, 2009 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's the thing...
one of those guys could come in and not cost much if any production… they could be the backup to Ron Edwards, like Tank was.
the upgrade comes when they use the 5th round pick to improve the team, and/or bring in Wilfork or another stud NT at some point.
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and, for the record
I’m in Des Moines, and I’ll pour you a drink when you get here
haha
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I need one after tonight..
IDK im probably over reacting but I just feel would could have got a little more.
by darwithabar on Oct 19, 2009 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wait till you see what happens tomorrow
there are more moves coming for sure
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
Isnt it funny how Tank was benched even when he led the DL in tackles and DJ has been benched as well. I seriously think DJ sleeps tonight his last ac a chief to be honest. I hope we get atleast a 3rd, we should get a 2nd though. I also would be a little 5 yr old boy on Christmas if we traded for a G of some sort. Like Logan Mankins who is in his contract year.
by darwithabar on Oct 19, 2009 11:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we could have
but in the end lets just hope we get a stud of a player and proves everybody wrong.
by Wrestler189s on Oct 19, 2009 11:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I highly doubt NE would trade Wilfork..
Like I said earlier this would make since if we traded that 5th in a package to the Pats for Vince….but I dont see that happening.
by darwithabar on Oct 19, 2009 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt it too...
but he’s a FA next year, so if they can’t sign him… Pioli might
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We might have assembled the package tonight
Wilfork Might be playing as a Chief Sunday vs SD.
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 19, 2009 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok so what would be the package for wilfork?
by Wrestler189s on Oct 19, 2009 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn near w/e they want but NE would be crazy to part with him and Rich in one year...
I would give them a 1st in 2011 though for sure.
by darwithabar on Oct 19, 2009 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is Wilfork worth?
A straight up 1st rounder.
We have ammo:
DJ and a pick
top 2 rounder
late 2nd and 5th
2nd and 2 late 5th’s
Plus we have the Cap room to sign him.
Pioli has some history and Vrabel and Cassel are here
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 19, 2009 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ultimatley it comes down to whether the Pats would even trade him...
Im sure Pioli would jump on it.
by darwithabar on Oct 19, 2009 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think NE has cap issues
or at least too many to sign in one year. Maybe Bellicheck chooses to work a second tier NT and the do have the kid from Boston College. Pioli knows the New England situation better than everybody but Bellicheck. As long as Pioli does’nt screw up the deal by over reaching we are going to get something done!
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 19, 2009 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sheesh...hes worth a 1st...?
I dont think i would give up a 1st for him. That is to valuable to us for a team that needs talent…
by Wrestler189s on Oct 19, 2009 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would he has a good 5 years left of being the best NT in the league.
If we could give up a 2011 1st I would do it. A 2nd and 2 5th round picks would be even better. Ultimatly I think Logan Mankins is the one who is the odd man out for a contract. He is by far their best OLmen at run blocking. If they could pull a deal off for him I would be seriously happy.
by darwithabar on Oct 19, 2009 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What position does Mankins play?
Let him hit FA and see if we can sign him. I just dont see how we are in the position to give away high draft picks right now….
by Wrestler189s on Oct 19, 2009 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is easily one of the best LGs in the League...
You definitly wouldnt have to give up much for him considering he is a G and in a contract year. I think a 3rd would not be out of the question. If it keeps Cassell alive id be happy.
by darwithabar on Oct 19, 2009 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I forgot about ron brace for a second...
he’s a more than capable NT….. wow… wilfork really might be on the block….. hopefully we’re clearing room picking up extra picks to make a move… but losing teams rarely do make moves for veteran guys…..
by callmesir on Oct 19, 2009 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have been hearing
That Belichick cut a few linebackers, so that tells me he’s looking for a swap…and he sure knows DJ still has potential, no one better could coach him up than Bill himself. So he gives up Wilfork to us, then gets another NT in the draft with the second rounder we give him with DJ.
by TonylovesKC on Oct 20, 2009 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is true though.
Pioli will never be satisfied unlike Peterson that he has completed the Job.
When he does We need to find a new GM.
Lesson learned here. A whitlock lesson.
A DJ lesson. A callmesir lesson. an Upamtn lesson.
We need to remain unsatisfied to stay on top or to get there.
Kudos guys
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 19, 2009 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed
as they say, it’s easier to get to the top than it is to stay there
only the diligent has a chance to
not the complacent as Peterson became even though he never took us to the top
"There are few secrets in football. So execute." ~Coach Stram
"I think it's the fans. The place is crazy. It's a good crazy, if you're Kansas City." ~Coach Schottenheimer
by Bad Medicine on Oct 19, 2009 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I never hear "the right 53"
bullshit again…. it’ll still be too soon.
by callmesir on Oct 19, 2009 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
It was either that, cut him or leave him on the bench as the #3 QB. He didnt fit the offense and Croyle beat him out for the #2. I was happy with getting anything for Thiggy. People thought we were nuts for keeping 4 QBs on the roster, but it turned out to be the smart move.
by scottbwalters on Oct 20, 2009 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
By the way...
Chargers lost….W next week against them and the Raiders lose we are in 2nd lol
by Wrestler189s on Oct 19, 2009 10:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Chances of us beating Diego after them losing
is not to good..there gonna be pissed
by CALIFAN1986 on Oct 19, 2009 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is what i keep hearing...
but we have lost 5 straight and we were pissed….OR we just won and they lost 2 straight and coming off a bye week they lost. Who has the momentum? and whos at home? THE CHIEFS!
by Wrestler189s on Oct 19, 2009 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the LT looked to be in rare form from what I was able to catch..
Can I be your Batman?
by IISaiNtII on Oct 19, 2009 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well the Chargers stuffed moreno for the most part so hopefully
they overlook LJ and dont plan on stuffing the run like im sure they did to the broncos
by Wrestler189s on Oct 19, 2009 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
With my personal bias...
I choose to like Wrestler’s comments better than Califan’s.
lol
by Primussux on Oct 20, 2009 2:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The best teams are built
With mid level draft picks who go on to be very good for very little cash.
We are accumulating the draft picks for Pioli to make a move. Then we will see if he can make some good finds.
by AlanSimpson on Oct 19, 2009 10:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
really I think the high 2nd rounders in terms
of monetary value are probably the most valuable…. if you have a deep class, you can get a first round type guy without the huge contract….
by callmesir on Oct 19, 2009 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep in mind we can always be packaging a few of these miscellaneous 4-6th round picks to get back into the 2nd and 3rd rounds for some legit talent.
by scottbwalters on Oct 20, 2009 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The biggest frustration of the Cherm era
was their apparent ambivalence about what has been a NIGHTMARE of an offensive line for YEARS. Ever since Willie Roaf and company retired on us, we haven’t been nearly the same team. That’s what did us in. And it’s about time someone fixes it!
So with that in mind, I think Pioli is doing the right thing. Stocking up on draft picks is going to allow us to grab some hidden gems at positions like O-Line. The more picks you have, the more chances you have to grab good value players that fit your system and fill a glaring hole.
by bwelch37 on Oct 19, 2009 10:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think that goes all the way back to Vermeil
The line was pretty old back then and I don’t recall spending any 1st day picks on O line until Albert since Vermeil became HC.
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
by Big Chief on Oct 19, 2009 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
(smacking my keyboard, it has typos) ...
*so why didn’t Pioli do something/anything about the OLine in the off season?
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 20, 2009 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What does it matter if he did it this year or he does it next year?
by vincent2668 on Oct 20, 2009 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
because it would be nice if our "franchise QB" survives
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 20, 2009 12:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe he will be greatly improved when we get a Line
because of the adversity he went through of playing behind a poor line.
by vincent2668 on Oct 20, 2009 12:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
I commented on a Dorsey post that I think Magee may have been a pick assuming Dorsey was a flop because of his weak play and especially because of his weight gain. I’m speculating that if Pioli had known how Dorsey would be right now, he may have gone O line in the 3rd round instead. And as others point out, our O line looked “serviceable” compared to our D as a unit.
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
by Big Chief on Oct 20, 2009 12:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with that line of thought
"There are few secrets in football. So execute." ~Coach Stram
"I think it's the fans. The place is crazy. It's a good crazy, if you're Kansas City." ~Coach Schottenheimer
by Bad Medicine on Oct 20, 2009 12:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so why didn
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 20, 2009 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Positions we could take
In terms of team needs, we could really use about 12 picks again.
by AlanSimpson on Oct 19, 2009 10:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
2006 Draft
You forgot, we got Herm in that draft for a Round 4 pick. So we got Hali, Pollard, Brodie and Herm….before the Broncos picked Dumervil.
by HowSweetItIs on Oct 19, 2009 11:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If we were tearing apart a good young team
I could see people getting upset. But, come on…they are getting rid of players from a poor team that I assume they have determined don’t fit their system.
I think it’s a matter of trade these guys for what you can get or we cut them for nothing next year.
The value of a player is what you can trade him for. If you could only get a 5th, then he is worth a 5th. I don’t get people thinkng that we should have got more than a 5th. That’s like players that get drafted 10th but think they are worth top 5 money.
by vincent2668 on Oct 19, 2009 11:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Your logic is way off...
He was a 3rd so thats his value until he ruins it. Now you tell me how he ruined it? Thats if you go by your logic of being drafted @ 10 but wanting 5th money.
by darwithabar on Oct 19, 2009 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If his value is a 3rd still, why aren't teams offering a 3rd round pick?
Your value is what the league says your value is.
by vincent2668 on Oct 19, 2009 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats not true...
Your wrong, If a 1999 crew cab silverado was mark @15,000 dollars but was just baught at 10,000 dollars 2 years ago. Would it be worth 15,000, hell na. If you put some new hub caps on it maybe. Now if the guy selling it just wanted it out of his yard. Would you be ok with him selling your truck for 5000. With the Hub Caps. Hell Na
by darwithabar on Oct 19, 2009 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point is
If the market is only willing to give you $1000 dollars for what you think is a $5000 car…then the value is only worth $1000 dollars in the eyes of the league. You could have a million dollar diamond. But, if nobody is willing to give you a million dollars for it…Is it worth a million dollars?
by vincent2668 on Oct 19, 2009 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But..
People will always hold out for the best price.
by darwithabar on Oct 19, 2009 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pioli seems to know the market
He damn well Should
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 19, 2009 11:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the deadline is tomorrow, how long did you want him to hold out?
I’d be willing to bet Pioli didn’t turn down a 3rd round offer to take the 5th round offer.
by vincent2668 on Oct 19, 2009 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about those that reach for a pick
ala Davis and Heyward-Bey?
"There are few secrets in football. So execute." ~Coach Stram
"I think it's the fans. The place is crazy. It's a good crazy, if you're Kansas City." ~Coach Schottenheimer
by Bad Medicine on Oct 19, 2009 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wait ... we didn't draft Curry???
no WONDER we’re 1-5
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 19, 2009 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re right, since Curry is the final piece of the puzzle. Seattle’s just cruising to the division lead with him. (Don’t get me wrong, he’s playing well, but c’mon, LB’s don’t get top 3 money.)
by scottbwalters on Oct 20, 2009 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and why not? if that's THE PIECE you need and the guy is RIGHT for your team and what you're doing ...
who cares what position? and as for pay, at that point in the draft EVERYONE is overpaid
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 20, 2009 12:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Curry was not the solution to our problems
You’re making it sound like we were only one player away from being a decent team
"There are few secrets in football. So execute." ~Coach Stram
"I think it's the fans. The place is crazy. It's a good crazy, if you're Kansas City." ~Coach Schottenheimer
by Bad Medicine on Oct 20, 2009 12:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If someone is willing to draft a guy
7th, then he is worth a 7th. If someone was willing to give us a 2nd for Tyler, then his value would be a 2nd. If the best offer we got was a 5th, then his value is a 5th.
I am talking about right now.
If you are saying that Tyler may develope into a 2nd round trade value in a couple years, I’ll give you that. I would assume that Pioli has determined that is not the case. But as of right now, looking to trade the guy…the best offer we got was a 5th. How can you say he is worth more than that if nobody is offering more then a 5th?
by vincent2668 on Oct 20, 2009 12:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Draft Picks?
Does anyone know how many additional draft picks we have accumulated. I know we had a 2nd for Gonzalez, 5th for tank and then I get lost with the whole multiple trades with Miami. Can someone please tell me where we are.
by casselreadychiefs on Oct 19, 2009 11:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If im correct...
1-st, 2-2nd, 1-3rd, 1-4th, 3-5th, …and whatever picks we get from the league
by Wrestler189s on Oct 19, 2009 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Musta been intoxicated from our win
along with the conversation with some friends after the game on the up-coming draft…
dreamt last night Mr. Pioli wheeled and dealed until we secured the complete second round for ourselves
"There are few secrets in football. So execute." ~Coach Stram
"I think it's the fans. The place is crazy. It's a good crazy, if you're Kansas City." ~Coach Schottenheimer
by Bad Medicine on Oct 19, 2009 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rec that would be cool
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 19, 2009 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that would be fun
our man would never leave the podium
….on the 33nd to 64th pick the Kansas City Chiefs selects….
"There are few secrets in football. So execute." ~Coach Stram
"I think it's the fans. The place is crazy. It's a good crazy, if you're Kansas City." ~Coach Schottenheimer
by Bad Medicine on Oct 19, 2009 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so then commissioner godell can say
with every pick in the second round, the kansas city chiefs select the LSU Tigers entire team
For justice we must go to Don Pioli
by Sudden on Oct 20, 2009 3:15 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Miami is pretty much a wash right?
Didn’t we trade Thig for basically what we gave up for the linemen? I think we just swap picks in that round.
by vincent2668 on Oct 19, 2009 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we gave a 6th and got a 5th
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
by Big Chief on Oct 19, 2009 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not swearing to it, I thought Joel had posted that on another thread
that’s just my recollection.
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
by Big Chief on Oct 19, 2009 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Should we have taken Curry over Jackson?
I hope Jackson comes alive. I know that ends are slow to develop but man we need some more pressure.
by casselreadychiefs on Oct 19, 2009 11:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
more pressure...
Curry wasnt a pass rusher…so really it wouldnt have made a difference. I would have stayed with Jackson though…he will develope
by Wrestler189s on Oct 19, 2009 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My thoughts on that are
If we took Curry and he wasn’t playing great; would everyone be mad because we didn’t draft d-line to take up blockers and let our Linebackers make plays?
by vincent2668 on Oct 19, 2009 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not disagreeing but
what LB do we have to have a pass rush? Lol
by Wrestler189s on Oct 19, 2009 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think people would be upset we didn't take d-line....
I think they’d still be upset we didn’t take o-line…. and if they picked poorly… maybe we ask why we didn’t take curry.
by callmesir on Oct 19, 2009 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
With the worst d-fense in the league last year
Isn’t the rule of thumb when rebuilding – to start up front on the lines?
by vincent2668 on Oct 19, 2009 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes ... including the O linr
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 19, 2009 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was listening to some show that made the statement
regarding the Chiefs:
With a terrible O-line and a Terrible D-line – You can’t rebuild both at the same time. You have to pick one side or the other. The Chiefs chose to go with D-line in hopes of being able to win low scoring games. Opposed to rebuilding the O-line and just trying to outscore opponents.
If it takes D-linemen longer to develope than O-linemen, don’t you go that route first.
by vincent2668 on Oct 19, 2009 11:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not sure it does take more time for DL to develop than OL - no matter
point is, to me, OL was a more glaring deficiency than DL … and besides, why not draft both? think about it, how many OL did Pioli draft? how many FAs did he bring in EARLY?
none and none
and that’s my issue with him
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 19, 2009 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And maybe next year he plans to draft 7 O-linemen
and bring in 3 FAs. We don’t know. What does it matter if we did it this year or do it next year? We weren’t going to the playoffs either way he went, this year.
by vincent2668 on Oct 20, 2009 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"none and none" ?
Drafted ONE (colin brown)
brought in Guichec and Goff early, , Ndukwe and Alleman later, O’Callaghan later…
True, the first 3 haven’t worked out… but the last three are working out pretty well…
So, you can’t say he didn’t get ANY OL… you could say he didnt’ get the RIGHT OL as of now…
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 20, 2009 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that is where our Mr. Irrelevant comes in too
That is what I have always heard too, that the D-linemen develops slower than O-lineman. If that is the case then working on the D side first is the logical thing to do. This should allow them to work on the O side next and if that is true then both sides of the ball should come together about the same time.
Also, at this juncture, I rather have low scoring games that gives us a shot at wins rather than trying to out score our opponents in a shoot-out or getting blown-out because our defense remains a sieve.
Sound familiar?
"There are few secrets in football. So execute." ~Coach Stram
"I think it's the fans. The place is crazy. It's a good crazy, if you're Kansas City." ~Coach Schottenheimer
by Bad Medicine on Oct 20, 2009 12:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think part of the issue,
is that we should have been able to recognize we weren’t going to win much this year. We had a servicable DL if we had maintained a 4-3 instead of forcing a switch with players that didn’t fit the system. And we still could have fixed the OL, and given ourselves a year to acquire personel that fit the 3-4 better.
by callmesir on Oct 20, 2009 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We had a terrible D-Line
Our d-line was the worst part of our defense last year and that was playing a 4-3. I would say that our personel on O-line and D-line were equally bad.
by vincent2668 on Oct 20, 2009 12:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
but it is potatoes Potatoes
We weren’t go to threaten anyone either way.
I’m in the get the D started up and then the O camp.
And all come together together
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 20, 2009 12:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
2008
The defense allowed 46 touchdowns, to rank 29th in the league.
The defense set a league record for fewest sacks in a season.
The defense allowed an average of 393.2 yards per game, to rank 31st in the league.
The defense saw opponents average 158.9 yards per game to rank 30th.
The defense allowed an average of 234.3 yards per game, or the 28th pass defense.
The defense allowed opponents to score touchdowns 36 of the 67 trips inside the 20-yard line. That was 53.7 percent, which left them 19th in the league.
The Chiefs and Indianapolis, both defenses finished at 47.4 percent conversion. Both teams gave up a first down 100 times in 211 third-down plays.
Nothing on the defensive side sounded serviceable.
"There are few secrets in football. So execute." ~Coach Stram
"I think it's the fans. The place is crazy. It's a good crazy, if you're Kansas City." ~Coach Schottenheimer
by Bad Medicine on Oct 20, 2009 12:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice stuff. I agree with going Defense.
If we would have went offese or O-line this year…People would be bashing the team for failing to address such a terrible D-fense.
Something like this: Our offense was good last year. Why aren’t we addressing the worst defense in the league? Pioli has no clue.
by vincent2668 on Oct 20, 2009 12:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
edit:
…158.9 rushingyards per game
"There are few secrets in football. So execute." ~Coach Stram
"I think it's the fans. The place is crazy. It's a good crazy, if you're Kansas City." ~Coach Schottenheimer
by Bad Medicine on Oct 20, 2009 12:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But our D-Line was servicable right?
You know one thing that I like about Pioli that I hated with Carl:
Carl would draft a guy and realize he was a bust. But, would not cut the guy because he didn’t want the public to call him out on a bad draft pick. I think Pioli has no problems with kicking a guy to the curb that is a bust regardless of how it will make him look. Because making the team better comes before his image.
by vincent2668 on Oct 20, 2009 12:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Peterson lost sight and got it backwards
good team = good image
not the other way around
"There are few secrets in football. So execute." ~Coach Stram
"I think it's the fans. The place is crazy. It's a good crazy, if you're Kansas City." ~Coach Schottenheimer
by Bad Medicine on Oct 20, 2009 1:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with all of this...
Is that if someone wants to say something negative about Jackson… it’s all about hey hey … it takes D-lineman a few years to develop…. no one can argue that tank and dorsey are both playing better this year. I think that is in spite of the system not because of it. I think as a 4-3 UT the way dorsey has been playing this year he’d have to be doubled quite a bit freeing up other rushers. I’m saying there was more overall talent on the d-line than the oline….
by callmesir on Oct 20, 2009 1:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look at Dorsey
We all thought he was a bust last year and he’s playing great this year.
by TonylovesKC on Oct 20, 2009 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep in mind we gave up a draft pick for herm.
Not that THAT would have made much a difference.
by Pilcrow on Oct 19, 2009 11:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah... Leon Washington isn't a game changer...
Oh wait
by Chiefsfan1970 on Oct 19, 2009 11:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
How much can you expect to improve
your team with one really good draft next year? I’m talking about next years class. Not a generic draft.
by vincent2668 on Oct 19, 2009 11:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If the D is gelling
then we can go O in 2010
and then we can add the frills and such for a playoff run that means something in 2011
Then we all die pre SuperBowl 2012 :(
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 20, 2009 12:23 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Murphy's Law
"There are few secrets in football. So execute." ~Coach Stram
"I think it's the fans. The place is crazy. It's a good crazy, if you're Kansas City." ~Coach Schottenheimer
by Bad Medicine on Oct 20, 2009 12:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
:(
So does this deal a blow to the chances of my love affair with Eric Berry coming true? We going DT with our pick now?
by scottbwalters on Oct 20, 2009 12:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No, They aren't any NT worth a 1st round in next years draft
Berry seems the best pick for the Chiefs
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 20, 2009 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey Packer fan here, I don't know if this relates
But I just looked at the Yahoo depth chart for your team and it looks like Derrick Johnson isn’t starting. Isn’t he supposed to be your best defender???
by Donald Driver on Oct 20, 2009 12:15 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If you are making a trade offer...Then yes he is our best defender
by vincent2668 on Oct 20, 2009 12:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll trade ya A.J. Hawk for him, call it even?
by Donald Driver on Oct 20, 2009 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If only it worked like this
fans making trades with other fans. What a bizarre league that would be.
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
by Big Chief on Oct 20, 2009 12:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I plan to call Pioli after I work this deal out.
by vincent2668 on Oct 20, 2009 12:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The "if you're making a trade offer" comment was golden
make sure you teach that one to Pioli – lol.
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
by Big Chief on Oct 20, 2009 12:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is what scares me
yes albert may end up making a great guard but hes not a tackle, and if you take jared allen OUT of that trade, and leave the picks, we gave them a 6th or at least swapped em I forget, regardless, that 6th gave them a starting center who has outperformed all out picks except albert, and that over time may be in debate…
thats SAD.
by SDChief on Oct 20, 2009 1:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
this might be out there...
but any chance there is a back end to this trade and steve smith who seems unhappy there is part of the trade…also ive heard rumors that NE is going to a 4-3. could that free up wilfork?
by MountainManMike on Oct 20, 2009 1:41 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I can't even explain to you how
happy in the pants I get when I hear steve smith associated with the chiefs…… but I doubt we have the pieces to get him…. even if we did we’d be mortaging the future for maybe 2 wins
by callmesir on Oct 20, 2009 2:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Tank Tyler move is a good one.
A lot of people are overestimating his worth based on the round he was taken in.
See Data Differently.
beyondtheboxscore.com | Twitter: @ justinbopp
by Justin Bopp on Oct 20, 2009 2:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Good point
some people thought it was a stretch when he was drafted
by HowSweetItIs on Oct 20, 2009 9:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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