Maybe Pioli and Haley know what they are doing...
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 2:32 PM CDT
127 comments
From the FanPosts. -Chris
It's easy to ask questions, when your favorite team is 0-5, even 1-5.
* When your GM doesn't spend big money on big-name free agents, people question it.
* When your team releases recent 2nd round picks that have shown promise... it makes you wonder what they are thinking.
* When your head coach "benches" some of the teams "best" players, you may want to panic.
* When the team keeps bringing in "no-name" B or C level free agents and waiver wire guys... you think they aren't serious about winning.
* When most all of the new players come from the Pats and Cards... you think they are just picking up familiar trash, instead of getting the best players available.
* When the head coach rants and yells and works his players hard, you think he's "losing his team"
* When the coaching staff pushes the entire roster to lose over 800lbs, including 40lbs EACH off of the First Round draft picks from 2008... you wonder if they are focusing on the wrong thing, or messing with what "worked"
* When only 2 of the new draft picks are starters, 2 are not on the active roster, and at least three are long term developmental projects, I REALLY wondered why they didn't draft players that can be STARTERS from day one.
Well, folks... as the season unfolds, I think we'll see that above all, Pioli and Haley DO have a plan, and it's a plan they believe in. The plan won't always seem clear to the fans or the media... but there is a method behind the locked doors of Arrowhead...
I know that one win doesn't cure all... but it helps show progress, and reinforce the plan and the vision.
Those "no-name" acquisitions and holdovers are starting to make their presence felt...
* Terrance Copper has been a special teams gem
* Mike Richardson made his first appearance this week... and helped improve the coverage in the secondary.
* Jovan Belcher and Cory Mays have both been making plays and leading the defense from the ILB position.
* Tyson Jackson has been quiet (though, he did have a batted down pass yesterday)... but you can tell that the Defensive Line is playing better, as the rest of the defense makes plays and gets stops.
* Alleman and Ndukwe have shown signs that they are AT LEAST solid depth on the OL... and COULD take over as starters at some point... and they were both acquired for a 6th round pick, which is a GREAT value.
* Sean Ryan looked like a scrub coming in to KC... but he's made some big catches, and is among the team's leading receivers.
* David Herron made a tackle on special teams this week... he was brought in for that purpose
* Jon McGraw made the 53 man roster, and for the first time, he really showed up on defense this week, with a sack and a big hit on a RB.
* Succop is fast becoming VERY relevant. This could be the steal of the draft... which is hard to say about a kicker.
* Vrabel and Cassel have been LEADERS... Vrabel has made a lot of plays, as has Cassel... though Cassel has plenty of upside and room for improvement at this point. This will prove to be an amazing trade.
* O'Callaghan may very well be the long term answer at RT
* I have a feeling that Quinten Lawrence, Colin Brown, Javarris Williams and Donald Washington still factor into the future plans in a BIG way... but, we won't see results until at least next season, if not the following year.
* Derrick Johnson has made plays in limited action. Demorrio Williams has made many tackles and played solid whenever DJ is on the bench. Other than hurting DJ's (and his fans') feelings... this seems like it's working out just fine. The defense is starting to gel, and players are stepping up when they are in the game.
* The massive weight loss has clearly helped the development of Hali, who has become a FORCE at OLB.
* Dorsey is clearly playing better at his new weight, and has shown steady improvement. I think we can finally say that he's made the transition to DE, and is a cornerstone of the defense. He can be a disruptive force and a great run defender.
* The benching of Bowe seems to have paid off, as he's playing well... even though he dropped a couple too many at Washington. More importantly, he seems to be 100% on board with the team and the managment's direction.
Admittedly, there are some questions that still need answering, and moves that haven't paid off
* The acquisition (and non-benching) of Mike Goff seems to be a failure
* The lack of a replacement for Rudy Niswanger is frustrating
* The lower playing weight seems to be hurting Albert's results, at least so far...
* Many acquisitions didn't pan out: Toomer, Zach Thomas, Beisel, Engram, Goff, Mike Brown... obviously Haley and Pioli were hopeful that they'd get more out of them than they have.
* Some of the draft picks are still head-scratchers... Washington, Magee, Brown, Lawrence, Williams, O'Connell... VERY limited contributions from them so far.
* Cutting Bernard Pollard still seems crazy... I wouldn't mind seeing him playing on special teams until he learned to cover someone...
* The DJ treatment is still a work in progress... I think they'd get a lot more out of him by playing him more... but Williams has been playing well in his spot, and hopefully the defense will be better for it in the long run... with or without DJ.
* The secondary seems to have gone from the strength of a bad defense, to the weakness of an improving defense. Not sure why... maybe it's the new scheme, maybe they are exposed more often, or maybe the front 7 is improving so much, they are making the secondary look bad.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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Im somewhere between the first and third option.
Time will be this teams best friend and as much as fans hate waiting I think they will be happy with the result when we get there. The execution being better couldve won us at least another game but people have to realize this is a whole new defensive scheme and an offensive scheme that is 6 weeks old.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Oct 19, 2009 2:43 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Your right.
Lot of these guys came from Herms regime. They severely lacked coaching. They were like putting Middle School kids straight to college when Haley and his guys came in. This is gonna take time. But atleast we can win some games in the meantime.
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Oct 19, 2009 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've never understood the people who think spending big in free agency is a good idea.
Why bring in names just to bring them in? People would have Piloi run the Chiefs as if they were a fantasy league team. We just played a team with an owner that overspends for talent consistently with usually shitty results. I’d rather have the Cheifs’ regime running things than Dan Snyder.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
by Rev. Slappy on Oct 19, 2009 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm there with you Rev.
Just take a look at Washington. Lots of big names, lots of money spent… And the payoff? Nada. Yup they have a one game better record than us, but I would argue that had we faced their same opponents we would have a better record then they do at this point. We faced some BA teams. And got lit up by NY and Phili. But were in the game and could have won Dallas, the Haders and the Ravens. So, I argue we would have beaten, given our level of play, Rams, Lions, Bucs and maybe Panthers. And they fully have the high priced name brand players. While we have, well, the right 53? No, but we’re closer than they are.
by Eastcoastransplant on Oct 19, 2009 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think it depends on the situation.
But I think that going after a high-dollar FA says you failed to get it done in the draft and development end.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 19, 2009 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree. If I were a GM, free agency should be used to fill holes.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
by Rev. Slappy on Oct 19, 2009 8:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I totally agree GB
Rec
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 19, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice post!
Good observations on the overall state of our players. Its easy to get down and out when the team doesnt look all that great. But when you look at each guy individually it starts to look a bit different. If most everyone is improving their own games…well its bound to start showing up on the scoreboard.
I too was disappointed about Pollard. I was also wondering about McBride. But the way I see it, if you dont or cant buy in to what Haley is doing you cant be successful. Maybe Pollard and McBride refused to do what Haley wanted. Or failed to give their 100% best.
Anyways….the team is looking better. I wont say the “Cake is done” yet but it sure is getting there.
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Oct 19, 2009 2:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah...
we all wish all the big name, or familiar names would step up huge, and make this a defense full of pro bowlers…
but that’s not really how it works.
The Chiefs are building with guys that fit the profile and do a specific job… and they will eventually be a VERY good team because of it.
There will obviously be some pain along the way, but the key is to keep building for the long term
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Building for the long term
Way the hell better philosophy and building for a one hit wonder year and then collapsing again. it’s baby steps folks, but with patience, motivation, and the right players, we’ll get there.
by Eastcoastransplant on Oct 19, 2009 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but they're also building a corps of good, smart players.
Not so much great, but versatile. They’re building for depth, right now (a lot of little moves all across the roster), and it’s just a matter of time for impact players to develop and be acquired.
I think maybe they misevaluated WR and DB, and are somewhat stuck, there. Definitely misevaluated O-Line, and this had some ramifications on D-Line, too. Now that they’re playin’ different teams every week, there’s no hidin’ needs that may’ve been hidden during the offseason. But I think they knew (Recall Dick Haley’s visit?) they were in trouble, and their best shot at upgrade by the time training camp rolled around was just what they did with Wade, Alleman, Ndukwe, Richardson, Pope after the cut to 53.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 19, 2009 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Had a computer fail earlier thought maybe this would fit here
What kind of coach works best with college players? A young fiery challenging type.
We brought Herm in “it was said” to be the coach of a youth movement.
Well we drafted and signed a lot of youth and now we have it.
We brought in a lot of Fiery challenging type Vets to show the way.
The message is consistent.
We have let some go and some have knuckled under to play here (had to by contract) play here or Quit. Well The helicopter quit, don’t think he is flying in the NFL now.
TG quit here and we moved him, Pollard quit by not upping his game gone.
McIntosh quit gone. McGraw, Williams, Hali, Edwards, Waters, and some I forgot Are the returning corp of this team. The “Old Guard” is slim here in KC. The rest are Mercs’
or are the “Young Guard” that will be Our Team.
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 19, 2009 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baking state will take all of this year.
Icing this coming off-season :)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 19, 2009 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You didn't realy follow through on the weightloss
Tamba looks so slim and fast!
As for Succop, range and accuracy. We would never have even contemplated one 46 yd attempt let alone two!
Blame my wife!
Waiting until August 2010
by sir eccles on Oct 19, 2009 3:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And it seemed like Succop had plenty of range left on those 46 yarders
I would have no hesitation letting him try it from 50+ on a regular basis
by Fourstrike89 on Oct 19, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
absolutely
I like how all of his kicks seem to be pretty much dead center, with length to spare
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Snaps were not perfect on any kicks either !
A couple I was worried about Succops timming !
by CJ-in-2018 on Oct 19, 2009 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah...
it’s a question about Albert, still…
but, I think it’s a huge plus for Hali, Dorsey, Bowe and others
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think...
Albert is going to make it at LT but, he will be one of the finest guards in the league. We need to draft a monster starting LT with our first pick this year IMO.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Oct 19, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's a distinct possibility
Okung or Baluga would look good next to Albert and a stud Center like O’Dowd
Waters could then be traded, and the line could be
Okung, Albert, O’Dowd, Ndukwe, O’Callaghan
that’s a strong, young offensive line!
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would be thrilled if Succop earned ROY honors
"There are few secrets in football. So execute." ~Coach Stram
"I think it's the fans. The place is crazy. It's a good crazy, if you're Kansas City." ~Coach Schottenheimer
by Bad Medicine on Oct 19, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be hilarious.
A kicker as ROY.
I think a better award would be “best Mr. Irrelevant Ever.”
See Data Differently.
beyondtheboxscore.com | Twitter: @ justinbopp
by Justin Bopp on Oct 19, 2009 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My jury's out on Albert.
I’ve seen Jake Long struggle against certain kinds of pass rushers (the Dwight Freeney types). That doesn’t mean he’s not a stud.
But the reason my jury’s out is I’m looking at the whole picture, and you need impact players at a number of positions where KC has a shortage of impact players. It’d kind of depend how the draft fell. I’d rather pass on 1st-rounder at left tackle if there isn’t a 99% sure thing. Chiefs spent a lot of (low) 1st-rounders on left tackle, to little avail. The best one they drafted in the last 10 or 20 years was John Tait, and HE really couldn’t cut it at left tackle, although he’s a FINE right tackle, who was never happier than when he left Arrowhead in his rearview mirror.
If a GREAT left tackle fell to the Chiefs, it’d be hard to pass up, even if you’re not still entertaining doubts about Albert. But I think Albert’s better than some of us are giving him credit for, and I know you can DEFinitely secure solid G, C, RT farther down in the draft. When I watch Albert, it seems like he’s giving Cassel a consistent place to step up, only the rest of the line might let THEIR guys up the gut. 9 out of 10 times, if Albert just does what he’s been doing and the OTHER 4 guys (plus RBs) do THEIR damn jobs, Cassel oughta be PLENTY comfy. Problem is, Cassel ALSO has guys in his FACE getting the same amount of penetration right up the gut. O’Callaghan is better than anybody at right tackle that we’ve seen there, at least as far as pass protection is concerned, but he’s still not a road-grader, imo.
Albert will be lined up opposite most teams’ premiere pass rusher. If all he has to worry about is bein’ beaten outside, and Waters et. al do THEIR damn jobs (I must feel strongly about this, eh?), I think we’d be thinking more highly of Albert at this point. You CAN see he’s still learning to play at the lighter weight, but you can also see that the lighter weight has made him quicker, and even a “trim” Branden Albert is STILL a massive lineman.
I don’t know what Mo Carthon is doing, but I don’t think the RBs are very effective in protections. I think Mike Cox thinks it’s mixed martial arts, wanting to do a Hoyce Gracie and do all his fighting from his back. But I’m not all that impressed with the awareness and effectiveness of the other RBs in pass protection, either. Granted, the best way to protect the QB might be to draw 2 or more defenders in coverage against the threat of screens and wheel routes, but when it’s just old-fashioned blocking, I’m not impressed with the RB corps.
As for the 1st pick, I’d say pick the maximum impact. I think a premiere defensive back would change the whole tenor of the defense. A premiere WR would change the whole tenor of the offense.
Meanwhile, Pioli has a good start on the core of the team, with lots of lunchbucket types who embrace the meritocracy Haley’s runnin’.
I was thinking about some of the “popular” players Haley’s been accused of disrespecting, and I think of the Titans of this year and the Chiefs of ‘94-’96, where they were convinced they had a winning roster and stood still, instead of just constantly trying to get better. Then they tried to continue holding on to what they had and adding impact FAs to put ‘em over the top. Doesn’t work that way.
In hindsight, I think Pioli could’ve done more good with spending the 4th-rounder on OL, as well as the 5th-rounder they spent on Colin Brown. But in the moment, a 4th-rounder with 2nd-round measurables probably tipped the scales. Just wish Washington would show us all somethin’ on the field earlier, rather than later.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 19, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
You filled up my entire screen Mills :)
Now I will read?
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 19, 2009 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least I don't fill your screen with a multi-line signature, like UCrawford!
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 19, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am coming around to the impact guy regardless of position (exc QB)
in the 1st. The OT prospects are probably 6 deep with minimal seperation.
Okung is a spread guy, Baluga has some health concerns. I would probably go with a Pro style OT like USC or bama for the OT prospect in the early 2nd. Unless a serious LB prospect slid, and look RB/WR or O-line for late 2nd.
Oh Rec
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 19, 2009 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dorsey looks much lighter and quicker as well.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
by Rev. Slappy on Oct 19, 2009 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To echo jcru this was a good summary.
It was objective so as not to slant the reader’s ideas for the poll and you certainly put some work into putting all those points together.
by Primussux on Oct 19, 2009 3:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think what people need to keep in mind
is that it’s not a bad thing that some of their moves catch us off guard. I think we got used to a certain way of doing things with Peterson running the team the last 20+ years. Now I know that different doesn’t always mean better, but I’d be more worried if the new guys were trying to put the team together the exact same way Carl did.
It's a good thing Pioli and Haley aren't running AP or a lot of you guys would of been traded or cut for cast offs from the Pats Pulpit.
by KCporkchop on Oct 19, 2009 3:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Or we as Chiefs fans thought it should be :)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 19, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget about Belcher
who has been contibuting more and more. We have some young LB’s with potential in Belcher and Mays. We need all LB depth we can get.
The more gems we can find on this years team the better. It will make it a lot easier to plug holes in say, the offensive line if enough LB’s come around that we can get away with drafting 1 instead of 2 or 3.
Please help send my girlfriend to Broadway! Visit http://magonbroadway.blogspot.com/
by Patrick Allen on Oct 19, 2009 3:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
absolutely... that's a huge part of my thought process here...
These “no name” guys… the more of them that step up, the better.
We may not be excited when they sign… but, eventually, the right combination of guys start to produce on the field, and you’ve got yourself a team.
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
More importantly, we have people that we brought in for little cost that suddenly have value,
…and become movable pieces.
See Data Differently.
beyondtheboxscore.com | Twitter: @ justinbopp
by Justin Bopp on Oct 19, 2009 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep... the Patriot formula...
Develop talent that helps your team, and eventually turn those players into draft picks, by trading them at the right time, to another team…
then, rinse and repeat :)
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Heh. "Rinse and Repeat."
I think the focus is on impact players, now. Just keep on bringin’ in solid journeymen at LB and RB (football smarts, versatility and toughness at a premium), and make it easier and easier for ’em to prosper, and try to find GREAT linemen to put in front of ’em and great perimeter players to play beside ’em.
I think there’s always an abundance of talent at LB and RB to be had for modest prices in FA and for modest draft picks. If you set the table for ‘em right, a certain percentage of these journeymen will become known as impact players, and if they ALL play smart, you’ll have a good team.
This is not to say that I’m against impact LBs. But they’re something I’d add to a team later, rather than sooner. There’s enough talent in that pool that quite a few players would emerge in the right situation, for instance, a Corey Mays in a situation where he can just pin his ears back and attack all day long.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 19, 2009 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Saw a great example of this yesterday in the Saints/Giants game...
They had mentioned how Fujita and Shanle were brought in as stopgap type players and theyve turned out to be one hell of a duo there.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Oct 19, 2009 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
think of the possibilities...
IF Belcher and Mays keep improving, and hold down that ILB spot
IF Lawrence develops into a speedy WR and takes over the KR and/or PR jobs
IF Lance Long gets promoted to the active roster and becomes the next big deal at the slot
IF Javarris Williams develops into LJ’s replacement in 2010
IF McGraw keeps playing well, and provides depth in the secondary
IF O’Callaghan locks down the RT by playing great all year
IF Ndukwe or Alleman take over for Goff and play great
Well, now they aren’t in dire need of drafting a: RG, RT, KR/PR/WR, ILB, RB
They can focus on drafting:
- a great LT and moving Albert, OR drafting Waters’s replacement at LG
- a superstar Strong Safety (BERRY!)
- a stud Center (like O’Dowd)
and, the rest of the draft picks are for depth and development
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
IF I strike oil and gold in the backyard..
by FrankPitts on Oct 19, 2009 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey, Jed Clampett
several of those things could happen…
several won’t… thus the word IF
:)
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't think you knew The Clampetts!
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 19, 2009 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i saw reruns growing up
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 8:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one is perfect
Trades will not always pan out as hoped
Draft picks will not always work out
Player pick-ups will not always contribute as expected
What I have liked so far is that they are more than willing to do what they can to continually improve the team…even if it means occasionally picking up someone from the cast-offs of other teams.
Correct me if I am wrong but didn’t we get Mr. Pioli for his ability to assess and acquire talent, for which he has developed a reputation for? If I am correct then I would believe that more often than not he will be right in his choices even if we do not like or agree with them. Our mistake as fans is that too often we become homeristic and get sentimentally attached to certain players while a clinical approach is needed for the improvement of the team.
We may not be privy to the all of the details of the plan in place but we (team/fans) certainly will be the benefactors when the results begin to materialize
"There are few secrets in football. So execute." ~Coach Stram
"I think it's the fans. The place is crazy. It's a good crazy, if you're Kansas City." ~Coach Schottenheimer
by Bad Medicine on Oct 19, 2009 3:40 PM CDT reply actions 5 recs
very well stated, wrecked
Our mistake as fans is that too often we become homeristic and get sentimentally attached to certain players while a clinical approach is needed for the improvement of the team.
Pioli and Haley are certainly not afraid to mix it up and upset people if they believe it’s best for the team.
I like that
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, Bad Medicine, and the attachment to certain players in worse in KC than other cities.
The teams in KC have been so woeful that individual performances are the only things fans can hold onto. The Royals haven’t been in the post-season since the 80s, so Greinke winning the Cy Young is HUGE for Royals fans. Last season was a nightmare for the Chiefs, so fans concentrate on the great season Tony G has. People are going to have to be a lot less sentimental when it comes to the Chiefs as Pioli will deal anybody that improves the overall team.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
by Rev. Slappy on Oct 19, 2009 8:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They haven't been back to the SB since before Stram couldn't bear to part with the players who won it for him.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 19, 2009 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
16 Positive Points out of 24 aint too bad !
If I’m batting .667 I’m making MILLIONS !!!!!!!!!!!!
by CJ-in-2018 on Oct 19, 2009 3:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
and?
this post isn’t about ONE win… it’s about the little things that are building a long term team here.
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is definitely improvement but....
This offense is almost painful to watch. Really, I am feeling better with the defense on the field during the games and that sucks.
Can our Special Teams just play the whole game??? That would be cool.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Oct 19, 2009 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
offense has much farther to go than the defense or special teams
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Defeating something
is much easier than creating something
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 19, 2009 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meaning?
Last I saw we were without a win
"There are few secrets in football. So execute." ~Coach Stram
"I think it's the fans. The place is crazy. It's a good crazy, if you're Kansas City." ~Coach Schottenheimer
by Bad Medicine on Oct 19, 2009 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
its like this
there is allways someone better than the next or previous so if what they are saying is true we are not ever gonna be able to get used to players in kansas city football ever again what do players have to show to get to stay on the team ?
by cainsbigonchiefs on Oct 19, 2009 4:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think...
they have to show what Hali and some others have shown…
Work ethic, team first attitude, non-stop motor, consistency.
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
special teams
I love the progress. I like that haley and pioli know what needs fixing. They stressed special teams and that is one of the strongest aspects of our game. I thought It was mcgraw that blocked and recovered td vs balt. Can’t fix all in one day with super star free agents but finding gems that fit the system is even more rewarding when it works.
I liked that they showered haley with gatorade. They are happy for him. They believe in what he’s doing. Mangini was dry as a bone after his first win.
by Chief of NY on Oct 19, 2009 4:37 PM CDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
me too...
all 3 phases are important…
it’s exciting to think that one phase is already “fixed” (special teams… one is getting closer (defense)… one still needs some work, but shows flashes (offense)
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chiefs still don't have a dominant return guy.
But the team part of it seems pretty damn solid.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 19, 2009 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hold Pioli and Haley to the same standard they claim to hold their players to
I will praise them and put my faith in them when they prove they can deliver.
I know that means that while they are doing the things they think they need to do to turn things around they are going to be questioned. I think that goes with the territory.
But until they build this team into at least a playoff contender, they do not deserve my faith and trust.
by ChiefDJ on Oct 19, 2009 4:53 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
One comment on this years draft
You mention only two of the draft class starting. I assume that’s Jackson and Succop. But typically the only players who can start as rookies are picked in the first 2 rounds, I think you need to credit Pioli for the starters he got in trade. Pioli traded our number 2 pick for Cassel and Vrabel. So I would say he got 4 starters out of this draft.
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
by Big Chief on Oct 19, 2009 5:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not only that, but Magee is rotating into the defense quite regularly.
He’s still a rookie, but he’s just flat-out a player. I’m not sure Pioli would’ve taken Jackson if he’d known Magee was going to still be there in the 3rd.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 19, 2009 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Magee he rushes the passer wel for a DT
by FrankPitts on Oct 19, 2009 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's a DT/DE 'tweener and would be most likely fit @ RDE in the 3-4.
I don’t know if he’ll be starting very soon, but with his versatility and overall presence, I can see him gettin’ as many minutes as anybody else on that line, by playing different positions in the same game.
I thought it was odd that someone recently dissed Magee as another pick that went nowhere, when I just keep seein’ more and more of him, pretty much as I expected, after reading about him and listening to him on Soren Petro.
Ahhh. Denver just ran the kick back for a TD. Nice to have the points, but this DOES put their D right back on the field, and SD had ZERO trouble moving the ball between the 20s.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 19, 2009 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly... we forget about the most productive 2nd round pick in years!
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2009 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So their past track records don't instill you with any confidence?
When people get hired for any new job the decision to hire them is based solely on their past performance. Pioli was the most sought-after GM candidate in years. He turned down job interviews for at least 5 years. I don’t know if people really realize what a coup it was for clark to land Pioli.
Pioli = 3 time NFL Executive of the Year and 4 Superbowls with 3 wins. Also, I think there was an undefeated season in there somewhere.
Haley = OC in Superbowl last season. His offense put Arizona in position to win the game at the end.
I think they deserve our trust until they prove they don’t. I think we are seeing that across the parking lot at the K — a GM was hired but in 3 years he’s proven he probably doesn’t deserve our trust.
If people thought the Chiefs were a team that could be turned around in one off-season, I’m not sure they were paying attention.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
by Rev. Slappy on Oct 19, 2009 5:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Very good points Rev
I think a lot of those people are the same ones asking how the Bronco’s got so good in one season and blaming Pioli and Haley for not doing the same. That only comes if you aren’t paying attention.
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
by Big Chief on Oct 19, 2009 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly! The Broncos were leading the division all season until they imploded last year.
McDaniel took over a much more talented team than Pioli/Haley. And I think losing Cutler is a plus for Denver. And, they have been very, very, very lucky in some of their games.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
by Rev. Slappy on Oct 19, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still think their decision to go LB when they were thin at DL is goin' to bite 'em this season.
So far, they’ve held up pretty darn well – certainly better than I expected. But I think somebody’s gonna get rollin’ on the ground against ‘em and kick the livin’ shit out of ’em with the playaction passing game.
Their ace in the hole is they have a VERY talented and smart secondary led by Brian Dawkins.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 19, 2009 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you on Cutler
I never understood the accolades. He’s a good QB, but not a great one. I thought he was Jake Plummer lite. I always thought the Chiefs had a chance to win as long as Cutler was throwing the ball. He has continued to show a remarkable ability to make boneheaded plays. I’m just upset that Denver got so much in trade for him. That’s more likely to hurt us than them having Cutler line up against us.
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
by Big Chief on Oct 19, 2009 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's clearly a young, "all about me," guy, still.
I think he’s a phenomenal talent, and likely to enjoy a lot of success in this league. But I heard him talkin’ about himself one or three too many times, and concluded he’s a punk.
I think Phillip Rivers is another one like that, but I think he’s grown into the role, and he’s just a tough, I don’t give a shit if you like me, but I’m going to do everything in my power to win – not make a great completion – but make a great completion pursuant to WINNING. What a dick.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 19, 2009 8:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate when I don't write sentences.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 19, 2009 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pioli deserves some leway because of his past and the fact he can only do so much once the season has started, though short of the Cassel / Vrabel trade, I have not been the least bit impressed by his leaching off the Pats and Dolphins roster trash and completely ignoring the offensive line after signing a QB for $60 million.
Haley is a different matter. What has Haley proven? Really?
He held the title of offensive coordinator for two years and one of those years he did not call the plays, Wisenhunt did. He did call the plays (Wisenhunts plays mind you, not his) in 2008 with a roster full of weapons including Kurt Warner, Larry Fitzgerald and Antoine Boldin. So one year of play calling with a bunch of former MVPs and Pro Bowlers doesn’t give me a lot of data.
But that is neither here nor there. He has yet to produce results with THIS team and has shown that he is definately a rookie head coach with a lot of his decisions (firing Gailey a week before the regular season and revamping the entire offense, etc).
I WANT Haley to succeed. I’m WAITING for Haley to succeed. I don’t expect it to happen overnight and am not calling for his firing or anything ridiculous like that. But he has not yet produced results and has made some serious errors in judgment. Hopefully its just a learning experience, but it could also be indicative of a bad coach.
I’m waiting anxiously for him to prove he’s a good coach. But I’m not going to sit here and drool over him and give him credit for every catch Bowe makes just because he’s a hardass and it makes people feel good that these guys that make millions of dollars to play a game are getting treated like dog food.
by ChiefDJ on Oct 19, 2009 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only issue I have with your evaluation
is that you’re shortchanging the OC for making Warner back into a Pro-Bowl QB. Since the turn of the century, Warner had become nothing more then a journeyman 2d string QB with a penchant for holding the ball too long and fumbling.
That changed last year and whether you like it or not, Haley was overseeing the offense when that happened.
Maybe Wisenhunt was the puppet master, I don’t know, but I haven’t heard anything like that from the Cardnial’s camp since Haley left.
The Kansas City Chief's 2009 record will be 5-11.
by Druful on Oct 19, 2009 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Warner's the same Warner he's been since he was stockin' shelves.
His fortunes have risen and fallen with the rise and fall of his O-Line and WRs. It was his good fortune to be a little slower-footed than Marc Bulger, or he’d be retired, by now. Mike Martz was no Dick Vermeil, and Vermeil built a GREAT O-Line in St. Louis and a GREAT O-Line in KC. Instead, Bulger got the nod (behind a deteriorating O-Line, with declining (once-dominant) WRs) and Warner got “stuck” playing backup in AZ.
If anything, my main disappointment in Pioli is throwing Cassel to the wolves. He’s a tough guy, with a good shot at surviving ‘most ANYthing, but the Chiefs were a year away from settin’ the table for a QB. Imagine if they’d after the BEST FA OL and kept that 2nd-rounder (which amounted to a high 1st) for another OL. Stick Croyle or Thigpen in there, with Gutierrez behind THEM, and either let one of ’em emerge or go after QB in 2010.
That would’ve been MY plan. Chiefs would’ve stayed on the up-tick in ’09, and been on path to real contention by or before 2010, and contended for the division in ’09, easily.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 19, 2009 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cassel would have been in Denver
and we would have been forever searching for the QBOTF.
Very happy to let Cassel grow behind the line as is :)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 19, 2009 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, mills ... this team was begging for O-Linemen and that was never addressed by Pioli
at least not until it was far too late to find anyone truly top-notch … and had they continued with Gailey and kept improving (and the offense was indeed improving the last part of last year) who knows what might have happened …
build from the inside out: lines first, and if you want an offense at all you MUST have that O-Line that this team lacks – by getting Cassel in lieu of a 2nd round pick we’re adding fancy chrome trim to a car that barely runs, not the best idea of a plan IMNSHO
Cassel, I fear, may end up with more bad habits than good just frim trying to survive the year intact
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 19, 2009 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup. That's the danger, upamtn.
But watching film of Cassel, he was the obvious choice to do a good job with his feet and his toughness, behind the line they HAD. I figured he’d be a good caretaker, while they fixed the d-line, and started building the nucleus for the future. So I was willing to give Pioli the push on that. But when Cassel went down and missed the first game of the season, it appeared the gamble had already failed (and it is a gamble, goin’ QB before O-Line). Then I saw him taking a BEATING every week, culminating in Haynesworth’s patented “Let’s Break a Rib” play, and I just shook my head. But damnif Cassel didn’t pop back up and hang in there. If he really IS this tough (and I spspect he is), it was a reasonable gamble to take in hopes of producing wins early (and not give ’em all away on D in the 4th quarter).
Steve_Chiefs: We’d also be without Vrabel, whom I’ve dissed a bit recently, but DEFinitely a leader on the field, who knows his fuckin’ job! I’d personally be pushing Studebaker to start in his place, at this point, and move heaven and Earth to get Vrabel to play more TE for me.
I’d’ve been OK with Cassel in Denver, because I was OK with going with gutsy ‘n’ tough Thigpen until the O-Line was fixed. Thigpen would continue to develop and the O-Line would be a lot better (2nd and 3rd or 4th round on OL). Go ahead and let Tony go, and maybe use 2-, 3-, or 4- on a MAULER at TE.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 19, 2009 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really don't agree with your opinion on Cassel here.
First off, I think Cassel is the real deal. With that being said we had to make that trade when we did for fear of the Broncos or someone else doing it or Cassel staying in NE.
Secondly, if you have a QB that (at least IMO) is the real deal and you have a track record of that you take that player over a 2nd round pick that you have no idea how they will turn out in the NFL. Adding Vrabel into the mix definitely doesn’t hurt.
Third, whether a player is “thrown to the wolves” (which is a fair and reasonable argument with our O-line) or not you still stick your best QB in there. You simply do whatever is in your power to win and I think this has a better chance of working than your idea of another O-linemen drafted and, say, Croyle starting.
I completely agree with you that Cassel is a tough guy that can take a hit and keep on going. Which brings me to my fourth point which is that you want to see how a guy can do in various circumstances including playing with both a crap O-line and an O-line that can protect him.
My fifth argument is quite simple. Since we traded him to be our starter the more playing time he actually gets vs. possibly riding the pine in NE will make him a better player.
by Primussux on Oct 20, 2009 3:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with ya, DJ, right there with ya
I just can’t see Haley as the offensive wunderkind savior – not yet – not just because he yells, not just because he has a famous father in law (or is that Pioli? I never remember which) … like DJ said, Haley might yet prove himself to be a good or very good HC, but so far he’s proven nothing other than an ability to make mistakes (I like his thing about accountability, but I still would like to know who holds Haley accountable and what, if any, are the consequesnces of Haley screwing up?)
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 19, 2009 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He gets fired
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 19, 2009 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Haley's for real.
I wish he’d be showing better vis-a-vis McDaniels, who’s wow-ing folks, right now, but it’s still early in this season, and, like Rex Ryan’s in NY, about whom I have nothing bad to say, the wheels could EASILY come off Josh’s wagon. They’re light up front, and if a team finds an aerial answer to their blitz (and it might be fielding enough WRs to FINALLY find some mismatches against their secondary), I suspect you could run right at that D-Line of theirs. Currently, their front 4 is enjoying the benefit of total freedom to run the blitz, and even when the LBs drop back in zone, their aggressive formations FORCE O-Lines to account for the blitz, whether it’s coming or not, and that really gives their 4-man rush an edge.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 19, 2009 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This teams in a lot worse shape than Denver was
And I don’t expect miracles from Haley because of the talent level of the roster.
I’m just not ready to hail him as the savior simply because he’s the anti-Herm. Yeah, the team lost 800 lbs or something. WOW! Yeah he yells at guys and “holds them accountable” Yippee! None of that makes one bit of difference if your players aren’t making progress and through 5 games, I have seen very little progress.
The defense looked pretty good Sunday, but just like it did against Oakland, thats against one of the worst offenses in the NFL, and it still manages to give up huge plays on occassion. The offense continues to give up sacks and the QB continues to get beat to the ground. The offense continues to be absolutely miserable in converting 3rd downs and the WRs continue to drop the ball.
These are things that I want to see improvment in and through 5 games plus the preseason, there is none.
We won yesterday. Yay. But it was because the other team sucked more than we did, not because our level of play was higher.
by ChiefDJ on Oct 19, 2009 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The secondary has SERIOUS issues
But recall, the secondary was the one area where virtually none of us, except maybe stagdsp and I, thought was at issue this offseason. An area of strength for the Broncos.
I think the Chiefs lack a 2nd premiere receiving threat, although Bobby Wade might represent a tipping point at that position. And area of strength for the Broncos.
Chiefs lack solid O-Line. I suspect there’s something a lot better already on the roster that might represent a tipping point there. An area of strength for the Broncos.
D-Line – I think the Chiefs bring more stout.
LB – I think the Broncos have more talent.
So, no. I disagree with you. Talent is not an issue for the Chiefs, at all
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 19, 2009 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How long is Dawkins going to be a factor
Seems that HC in Philly is pretty good at lining up talent and letting guys go
Ala Belechick. Just not getting the rings :(
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 19, 2009 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you can't always go on past record, if you did then Belichick would never have gotten the Pats job
a lot of guys are horrible their first time around and succeed later … the flip side of that coin is that a lot of guys have instant success then fail later on down the road … too many factors involved to say that "past success (or failure) is a guarantee of what will happen in the future
that said, I agree with DJ that these guys, Haley espcially, don’t instill me with the confidence that I’d like, certainly not yet … I’ve disagreed with Haley’s tactics and methods with his players, and I think most of us have qustioned his playcalling (for a supposed whiz-kid OC he seems to leave a lot to be desired as OC here thus far) … and Pioli, well … if he runs the Chiefs the way he ran the Pats, I will NOT like him at all, period (it’s not JUST about the winning, it’s also about being a class organization, and some of the things the Pats have done in the past lead me to think they lack some of that – time will tell here)
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 19, 2009 8:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like what?
I didn’t like the stealing of signals – speaking of which, am I the only guy who noticed that Haley doesn’t hide his mouth when he’s callin’ signals? Every other OC in the league covers his mouth, in case (apparently) there’s a lip-reader in front of a monitor…
It wasn’t signal-stealing, was it? It was something like surreptitiously taking video of practices, or some such, wasn’t it? Maybe it was using a microphone plant, or something…
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 19, 2009 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree some Mouth security Haley, would be a good thing.
Calling plays.
Chewing on your punter.
bitching in general.
Yes, cover your mouth at times Haley, with that Play Chart :)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 19, 2009 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, videotaping practices of ... I believe ... NY Jets
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 19, 2009 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oddly enough, Slappy, Haley's playcalling in the SB was something I didn't like.
Took him too long to look for the open HB in the flat and took him too long to adjust away from it after PIT adjusted when he finally exploited it.
But some of that was deceptive. Showing a willingness to run James and Hightower straight into the jaws of the Steeler middle, even at cost of some drives really set up the playaction, later on. I’m not expert enough to judge one way or the other, but I felt in my gut that AZ could’ve been MUCH more productive in the first half of that SB than they were.
I think scripting plays is great if you have the biggest O-Line in the league and you have Jerry Rice. But I think you have to have a lot more “take what’s being given” in your offensive scheme, beyond the playcalling. Things that your guys just know to do when the D presents a particular formation and a particular mismatch that you prepared for ahead of time. Yeah, we’ve got off-tackle to LJ called, but you can see ‘em comin’ up to blitz, and there’s nobody within 10 yards of D-Bowe at the snap.
I think Haley’s coachin’ ‘em up that way, judging most recently from the ass-chewin’ he gave D-Bowe last Sunday, but it hasn’t borne fruit, as yet.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 19, 2009 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...in fact my most frustrated things about the lack of talent
are Niswanger and Goff….but hey when that’s all ya’ got…that’s all ya’ got….
succop was a steal…
by krayfish on Oct 19, 2009 5:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't it be funny if our rookie of the year ended up being our field goal kicker?
I’d bet that hasn’t happened much in Chiefs’ history. lol But, I don’t think anyone would argue anything differently at this point in the season.
by Primussux on Oct 19, 2009 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm. Don't remember if Stenerud went ROY.
It’s good when your kicker makes kicks, but I’m the kind of fan who wants to see the game won on regular offense and defense. Vinatieri definitely helped Tom Brady’s career.
Thing is, it’s not very satisfying to ME to win games on the leg of the kicker, but it REALLY sucks to LOSE a game, because of your kicker. But to me, every game that came down to the kicker being needed for more than PAT and kickoffs would be a game where the offense and defense didn’t dominate the other guys.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 19, 2009 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about the Ravens vs. Minn game yesterday?
Minn won cuz Haushka missed his FG attempt at 44 yards. Everyone else did what they had to, and it was a helluva game. But in the end, after an amazing come from behind, Minn holds on b/c Haushka doesn’t make it. And Succop made two from longer. So…
by Eastcoastransplant on Oct 19, 2009 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They had time to punch in the TD...
…if their offense had been up to the challenge, and it wasn’t able to make the kicker irrelevant or give him a chip shot.
I would just as soon Ryan Succop CONTINUED to be “Mr. Irrelevant.”
FG specialist is one thing I view with a certain amt of distaste. Sure, it’s part of the game, and so should be exploited to the extent possible, but it’s sort of a shame, like the ridiculous rules protecting QBs. Just because the QB position is falling behind the DL and LB athletically is no reason to change the damn rules. Get you a tougher QB, dammit! Get you a Ben Roethlisberger, who, to me, is the direction QB oughta go. Or in the Michael Vick direction.
In street ball, the best player is always the QB. In today’s game, the QB is just a guy who can play football like a video game. It’s just bullshit.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 19, 2009 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You do need to think at Video game speed
But ya agree that the QB should be the Smartest, Toughest SOB on the field!
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 19, 2009 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't be even funnier if the only Chiefs player in the Pro-Bowl is
Copper :)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 19, 2009 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The way the secondary's been playin', I'd give Copper a HARD look at DB.
He has a nose for the ball and he has size and wheels. Only strike against him is hands, and that skill is deprecated (somewhat) at DB.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 19, 2009 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You are way outside the Box today Mills :)
Agree, find PLAYERS and like college put em in the right position.
Especially when you are dealing with the bottom of the roster.
Backups of backups.
Waters was a TE with Dallas wasn’t he?
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 19, 2009 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, if we're gonna talk about the New England connection, I remember Troy Brown making the switch...
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 19, 2009 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow - contact Haley with that one
I’d like to see what he looked like in place of Leggett.
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
by Big Chief on Oct 19, 2009 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's not get carried way.
I’m just “Throw talent at CB until you’re GREAT at CB.” Control the middle. Win the 1-on-1’s on the perimeter, and play smart at LB. That’s MY formula.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 19, 2009 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not advocating cutting Leggett
I was just struck by the idea that a fast good cover guy, which Copper has been, might be an interesting trial at CB. I don’t think he could take a starters role, but it would be interesting to see if he could play in a nickel or dime package.
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
by Big Chief on Oct 19, 2009 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
SMART football ... so, nobody from FSU
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 19, 2009 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've waited til now to really post much of anything following the win over Redskins
and yeah, it was nice, any wain is nice at this point, however … always a however, isn’t there? … this team is FAR from being where we’d all like it to be, and let’s face it, the opposition yesterday wasn’t exactly top notch … one of the few teams that, right now, are in more disarray than the Chiefs are the Redskins, and if you thought OUR offense was bad …
that said, our offense is fairly anemic indeed … 4 FGs (should have been 5 but who’s counting) say that yes, we moved the ball but yes, we stalled far too often
defensively it was nice that we stopped their offense after the Portis run Iand how did he do that, anyway? guys, you’re supposed to TACKLE the guy with ball) but again, the Redskins have as many issues on offense as we do (if not more)
enjoy the win, because … sadly … more losses will be coming this year … is it all turning around and coming together? time will tell … a win is indeed a win, and perhaps Pioli and Haley do have a clue, but then again … well, we shall see
I hope so!
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 19, 2009 6:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
A lot of us realize this ain't a finished product, a nice measuring stick,
We are far from a playoff caliber team, but not the worst thing ever fielded in the NFL.
We have a lot of youngsters, thus all the grooming of the vets we did aquire. How many teams fans talk about veterans to groom the youngsters. Not a lot. NY Giants felt like the world ended yesterday, Philly too. The Veterans will be long gone before that Playoff game.
But the players here will remember what the Vets taught them. And maybe some will have a nice word for Vrable, Brown, McGraw and others that taught em the right way.
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 19, 2009 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, hope we're still around when that playoff game comes along
and yes, Giants got creamed by this week’s #1 team and Eagles … well,. yeah … but those teams will likely both be in the playoffs THIS year, whereas our Chiefs …
yeah, teach the rookies well
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 19, 2009 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't have anywhere to go :)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 19, 2009 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
With Jason Peters down and the loss of their RT, earlier this season,
the things that were going to allow them to turn the corner and be dominant have mostly evaporated, and it looks like we’re back to watching McNabb’s “happy feet” routine, and EVERYbody’ll be questioning his deteriorating skill set, blah blah blah.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 19, 2009 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was an ugly game and an ugly win
I thought Dallas did everything they could to give us that game. It was like Washington saw that and decided to show Dallas what a team has to do to give us the game. Dumb penalties, bad plays, stupid miscues. Washington did it all.
Haley said that if this team is going to win, it was going to be ugly. He was right.
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
by Big Chief on Oct 19, 2009 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've been thinking about what Pioli and Haley are trying to accomplish this year
And I think the best indicator was when they traded Tony G. If they thought this team had any chance of being good this year I think Tony stays. Instead I think they decided there was a lot of chaff to separated from a little bit of wheat on this team and they were going to take the year and figure it out.
So rather than go for a gimmick offense (like the Arrowspread) or stick with the 4-3 (that is more compatible with the current players) that may get you a few wins, but won’t help you develop your players or show how they could play in your long term offense or defense, they decided to install the real things and start evaluating. They let Tony go elsewhere instead of trying to keep him happy through a long rebuilding process.
I expect we’ll see a big turn over in players (and coaches) during the off season. I think they had little hope for doing anything this season but identifying who is a player and what holes they need to fill.
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
by Big Chief on Oct 19, 2009 7:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
At least they didn't grab Terrell Owens sell a bunch of season tickets
then gut the team with a lame ass HC. Well Buffalo has won 2 games and are much worse off in the long run for it
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 19, 2009 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If this story is true, Haley told Jerry Jones that TO was a cancer.
When Parcells left Dallas, Haley was one of the guys Jones interviewed for the HC position. Haley told Jones there was no way he would coach the team if TO was on it.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
by Rev. Slappy on Oct 19, 2009 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tony G. had "cancer" written all over him.
Can you imagine the fallout when Haley started harpin’ about YAC and keepin’ your feet, like he did to Fitz? Do you think he’d tolerate being demoted for missing his blocks or any of a number of other small mistakes? Waters has been enough of a problem with “I’m a vested veteran, so kiss my ass” attitude.
One thing (There are surely others…) that flies in the face of my theory on TE in the offseason was Pioli/Haley not bringing in a real MAULER or two. To my eye, they just brought in lesser finesse guys (pretty widespread around the league). I wanted a Michael Boss-type TE, who’d make a tough catch now and then, but mostly just smack people in the mouth. A guy who can always get open because nobody’s thinking about him.
I thought the Chiefs could do a LOT of good with the right side of their line by lining up a real BULLDOZER outside of McIntosh, but the types of TEs they DID get aren’t dominant blockers.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 19, 2009 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's an interesting point hmills
You’re right, there aren’t a lot of those types around. It’s interesting that the last one KC had was Dunn, and he came to the Chiefs as a “receiving TE” and changed when it became clear that he was never going to be the receiver TG was and punched his ticket by blocking. Having a big time blocking TE would be a major benefit. Hell, I think Dunn could probably outblock most our current O line.
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
by Big Chief on Oct 19, 2009 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Denver made a lot of hay with a converted TE (Lepsis) @ LOT. Won a SB with him, IIRC.
For what I’d want, the best candidates might be big LBs and DE ‘tweeners outta college. Guys with trench skills and good hands. But you’re right. Seemed this year that everybody who was anybody at TE in the NCAA made his name as a receiver, and was questionable as a blocker, and the all-around guys DID seem to go pretty quick, especially in the wake of Kevin Boss (whom I called “Mike” in an earlier comment, dammit).
I tell ya, though, when you bring up Dunn, I kinda lump him with Derrick Walker, who you just held your breath for when he was targeted, because he’d likely muff it. That’s one of the (many) holes in my stream-of-consciousness, here. If the guy’s low-percentage proposition, he’s a non-factor on 3rd downs as a receiver.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 19, 2009 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way Haley would have "demoted" Tony G.
Tony G doesn’t drop passes like D-Bowe does. No one ever questioned Tony’s work ethic. With Tony’s work ethic and track record it would have been just the opposite. He would have been the guy Haley would be commending during press conferences.
And just as a general rule there is nothing that I see in Tony G’s personality that would lead me to believe he would ever be a “cancer” of any type in any type of situation, be it in his personal life or on the field. When Tony is asked a tough question by a reporter his first reaction is always to smile, pause a second, and respond in a positive manner.
by Primussux on Oct 20, 2009 3:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even last year when he was publicly unhappy and wanted a trade, Tony was taking extra reps with Thipgen after practice.
I apologize in advance for the cliche, but if you look up the word “professional” in the dictionary, there’s a little photo of Tony G next to it.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
by Rev. Slappy on Oct 20, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so in other words ... you DON'T play to win the game, you play to see how good or bad you are
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 19, 2009 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah. But gauging how good you are is a lotta fun!
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 19, 2009 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Big Chief: I think you are 101% right.
I think this entire season is about evaluation. Will they try to win games? Yes, they will, but this season was a lost season before it began.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
by Rev. Slappy on Oct 19, 2009 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah Rev, I been saying that for a few weeks now
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 19, 2009 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And i think it helps answer why they weren't more aggressive in free agency.
Why blow a bunch of money when you can develop guys you already have? There’s no question this team was badly coached when Herm was here. It’s going to take this season to see who wants to step up and play, who’s going to really want to compete. Pioli gave an interview a couple weeks ago where he said one of the things they are looking for in the “right 53” is players who will respond to the way Haley coaches. Also, I think they will wind up winning 5 or 6 games this season.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
by Rev. Slappy on Oct 20, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta love the way Rivers plays.
3-man rush after several successive blitzes. No hurry. Just break the contain and survey the field. Take your time.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 19, 2009 7:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
San Diego's beatin' the blitz with the pass.
It’s takin’ Denver outta the blitz between the 20’s and they STILL don’t have an answer. Now to see if SD can punch it in from inside the 10.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 19, 2009 7:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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