Your Daily Chiefs Trade Deadline Rumor (Glenn Dorsey Edition)
by Joel Thorman on Oct 19, 2009 8:00 AM CDT
in 2009 Kansas City Chiefs Campaign
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With the reported "fire sale" that could possibly go on in Kansas City, I have a feeling we're going to be seeing a lot of these. Players like Dwayne Bowe, Glenn Dorsey and Derrick Johnson are attractive to other teams, so even if the rumors are a bunch of baloney, I suspect teams will be calling the Chiefs about nearly everyone.
So, here's today's rumor: Glenn Dorsey and the Detroit Lions. To be clear, this isn't a report that any talks have necessarily occurred, this is something that just makes sense from a Lions writer.
Tom Kowalski of the Detroit Free Press is looking at Lions GM Martin Mayhew, then looking at Chiefs defensive lineman Glenn Dorsey, and saying it just makes too much sense.
Kowalski cites Detroit's defensive line problems, defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham's familiarity with Dorsey and his position switch as reasons for the Chiefs and Lions as trade partners makes sense.
I gotta admit - he makes a compelling case. The coaching staff was reportedly down on Dorsey after he showed up to training camp grossly overweight according to head coach Todd Haley, but recently their attitude towards him has changed. Their was a column in the Kansas City Star a few days ago (via Kent Babb) that said the staff was happy with him and the player had one of his better games yesterday against the Washington Redskins.
Writes Kowalski of the Chiefs being high on him, "You have to wonder how legit that really is. One of the most common ploys among personnel people of the NFL (National Federation of Liars) is to swear up and down that you love a guy and that he's part of the foundation for your team."
Kowalski goes on to cite (WR) Roy Williams as an example. The Lions swore he was part of the team's foundation, only to turn around and send him to the Cowboys in a highway robbery deal.
Check out Kowalski's piece here. He makes a good case but, on the other hand, I don't think you can hide the fact that there's been improvement from Dorsey every game culminating in a seven tackle performance in yesterday's victory.
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Bad Idea
He is starting to pick it up for the Chiefs. He was a 2x All-American in College… he has the talent, he just has to untap it in the NFL. Too early…
horse beaten...
horse dead. horse beaten again.horse resurrected, re beaten…horse dead. Beaten. again.
Dorsey is not going anywhere!
Virtus In Arduo
I'll Say This
I’ve read Kowalski’s stuff periodically, he’s a good journalist and seems wired into what’s happening inside the Lions…so if he’s tossing the possibility of a Dorsey trade out there, there’s a good chance it’s actually been discussed between the two teams (even if it may not be probable).
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
Agreed
If talks were serious, at this point, then I think he would have come right out and said ‘Yes they have occurred.’
by Joel Thorman on Oct 19, 2009 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd hope by serious
They’d mean a pretty high draft pick. As it is, I don’t see that happening.
Then again, if they wanted to part with Megatron…=)
"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris
If That Happened
I’d be ecstatic. But there’s no way it happens…Megatron pretty much is their offense as evidenced by yesterday when he was out.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
Exactly.
He, Kevin Smith, and Matt Stafford are “untradable” on that team.
…holy crap…that’s one more “safe” player than we have!
"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris
I don't think it's improbable...again it's just my opinion..but..
just because Dorsey is improving doesn’t make him important to us as a team or make him anything special. I’m not dissing him either. But, again, we’re familiar with him. So we are comparing him to the awful, lackluster Dorsey of the past couple years.
In reality, in comparison around the league, he’s nothing special at all. When other teams are looking at defensive players to bring in the first ten names won’t be his. He’s a local boy commodity. He’s not known around the league. Most teams fans have never even heard of Dorsey for the 1-5 Chiefs.
So I think that if we step outside of our little world here in KC land, we’ll find the realistic view of Dorsey is that he’s no big deal and no one of any huge interest around the league. He is better suited to a 4-3 though. So still, improvement is one thing, being a high quality contributor is another thing all together. One decent game against the Redskins is not a true gauge of his abilities or lack thereof either.
So all things considered, he would be no big loss to us, if we have plans of REALLY improving our defense and offense this next offseason. It all depends (once again) on the great unknown…the future plans Pioli and Haley have for our Chiefs really.
I must live in an alternate reality
Glen Dorsey has not been awful and lackluster for the past couple years as you have stated. For one, he was just drafted last year, so this is only his second year in the league, so how can he have been so bad for a couple of years, when he has only completed one season, his rookie season at that? And second of all, despite what some people in the media reported about him in the off-season, Glen Dorsey had a decent year as a rookie. Compare his stats from last year to any current or past great defensive lineman (such as Warren Sapp) in their rookie season, and you see that Dorsey compares favorably. And your argument that Dorsey is a local commodity and that he’s not known around the league, going so far as to say that most teams fans have never heard of Dorsey is way off base. In last year’s draft, Glen Dorsey was the most sought after defensive lineman in the draft. In fact, just about everyone was surprised that he fell to the Chiefs at the fifth pick as he was so sought after. Dorsey has been nowhere near the bust that some people are quick to label after an unspectacular (yet productive) rookie season. He commands respect from other teams, and has improved every game so far this year. It has been said over and over that defensive linemen take at least three seasons to become the dominant force they were in college, and I would say Glen is on his way, and we’re not halfway through his second season, so there is much improvement still to be had by him. I am sure there are many teams who would like to have Dorsey, but it remains to be seen if the Chiefs want to trade him before they are able to see what kind of player they have on their hands. I personally would think it would be a big mistake to trade him before at least the end of this season to see how far this young man progresses. Just my thoughts!
Hey, at least our punter is pretty good, so we got that goin for us, right?
You say he isnt nothing around the league......
But he is on pace to get more tackles then Richard Seymour’s career high.
by darwithabar on Oct 19, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions
They Won't Offer A First Rounder
Martin Mayhew is a pretty good horse trader…he’ll try to buy low.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
Trading Dorsey only makes sense if
it is for a first. I agree they won’t bite unless there is another guy on D they want.
Predictions for 2009:
LJ runs for 1800 yards
Bowe in the pro bowl
Chiefs D finishes in the top 10 in points allowed
Chiefs 10-6
by bonesjackson on Oct 19, 2009 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Nope.
Clark Hunt’s wallet isn’t thick enough for two draft picks that high in the same year. That’s $150+ million we’d be looking at for two rookies who’d never played a down in the NFL. No way.
You mean like he did for Dorsey and Albert last year? I don’t think this is a money issue
by mightykc on Oct 19, 2009 10:13 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
No.
A top 5 and a top 15 are a lot different pay-wise than two top 5s — including, what could possibly be a #1 pick in an uncapped season. It just ain’t going to happen.
Yeah but your getting rid of Dorsey's salary...
The Chiefs wouldnt take anything but a 1st and then some for Dorsey. They would look like fools if they traded dorsey for less then a first. Your losing value, He was taken 5th overall in 2008. So even if you traded him for the 5th pick straight up it wouldnt be fair compensation. You would have to get a 3rd with it which I suppose that would happen.
by darwithabar on Oct 19, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions
not sure if the chiefs would want another top 5 pick
that would be 2 hellish salaries for us and it’s often hard to trade outta the top 5 for that reason and because other teams have to give up so much to do it.
I'm not a fan of trading Dorsey,
but everything has a price. Frankly, Detroit would certainly be unwilling to pay what it would cost to acquire Dorsey
I've been rapping for about seveteen years okay? I don't write my stuff anymore I just kick it from my head you know what I'm sayin? I can do that. No disrespect but that's how I am.
I love the he's playing out of position argument
the guy just made 7 tackles from the 3-4 DE position. That’s crazy good. He’s applying pressure on a regular basis, I wouldn’t be surprised if he ended up with a half dozen sacks before the season is over. Who cares if he doesn’t fit the typical mold of someone in that spot. Great players make plays, period. He’s young and just starting to produce, why trade him?
It's a good thing Pioli and Haley aren't running AP or a lot of you guys would of been traded or cut for cast offs from the Pats Pulpit.
by KCporkchop on Oct 19, 2009 8:20 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Good point
Got something coming up today that talks about that.
by Joel Thorman on Oct 19, 2009 8:51 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
+1000
Just give Jackson some time to develop and our Dline is looking pretty damn good. Dorsey is not going anywhere.
Don't blame me, I voted for content of character.
I love Dorsey
But I say trade him for Calvin and a 4th hell we love him but I would rather set my wr corps and throw in the guyr we drafted to start in dorseys position…. Plus a Calvin bowe combo would be digusting sick….. Like swine flu sick ….. No doubt we draft a couple of LBs and OL this year ne ways
How the hell did that happen? I am Trailblazer fan to the core but I love me some OKC THunder!!! Must be the Hometown pride I feel.
I'll Say it now so you guys can know I'm a true follower: "In Pioli I Trust"
Go Chiefs!!!!!
by bouzi on Oct 19, 2009 8:31 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Are you high already? Its only 8am.
Why in the hell would a team give up a top 5 WR PLUS A PICK for Dorsey? It would take Dorsey plus a high pick to even get Detroit to listen to us.
"What?!?! I aint no Obama for the weed!"
-Turk McBride
Hey
That all I would trade Dorsey for was my argument in a new form of sarcasm …..
How the hell did that happen? I am Trailblazer fan to the core but I love me some OKC THunder!!! Must be the Hometown pride I feel.
I'll Say it now so you guys can know I'm a true follower: "In Pioli I Trust"
Go Chiefs!!!!!
by bouzi on Oct 19, 2009 8:38 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Calvin Johnson Is Not On The Trade Block
He’s not going anywhere. Someone was just floating the idea.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
Like I said in a previous "Trade Dorsey" rumor post
I would not be willing to get rid of Dorsey unless we got something ridiculously good for
him; 1st rounder + 2nd rounder + change. Glenn Dorsey looks like he is on the path to becoming a stud, Albert Hayensworth be dammed.
Check out my blog on software development:
http://www.turnleafdesign.com/
by Scaryclouds on Oct 19, 2009 8:49 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
How come talks of what we may get are never
in any of these stories? Are we to assume that it is always going to be draft picks in return? Should we expect to get more for Dorsey then the Browns got in return for Braylon Edwards?
good point
That Braylon Edwards trade was ridiculous
Time is a great teacher... unfortunately it kills all it's pupils.
I just read on yahoo NFL Rumors...
that the bears are interested in DJ…Makes sense, they lost Urlaker for the season and another LB went down yesterday. But Dorsey will not go anywhere.
Give it 1 year....
By the middle of next season, when T.Jackson is showing Dorsey like improvement, and Dorsey is quickly becoming the stud that we know he’s capable of, we’ll have DE bookends that we’ve dreamed of for a long time coming. Then, if we have a ‘decent’ NT, we’ll have one of, if not the best D-line in the league.
ding ding ding!
You are correct sir! Dorsey needs to stay. This team has spent the last 2 seasons waiting for him to develop. Now that he’s getting to where he is supposed to be, we would just turn around and trade him??? That makes absolutely NO sense!!! Once T-Jax begins to show the same progress Dorsey has shown, our D-line will be ridiculous.
The real question is regarding the NT position. I have liked what I’ve seen so far out of Tank but, Edwards seems to be coming around too. Will this be addressed this offseason? As much as I think either of those guys is sufficient, an upgrade would be nice.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Oct 19, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions
What if Detroit offered their 1st & 4th round 2010 picks for Dorsey
And we could turn around the pick to draft Suh? Dorsey is certainly playing well and I’d be happy to see him stick around, but Suh has more upside as a 34 DE, so I’d be happy with that move as well.
Wasn't Pioli himself checking out Suh recently?
I thought that I had read something recently that he was going to see Suh play this weekend or sometime soon.
Nebraska vs. Missouri game
He was there for 1st 3 quarters & said that he was looking at a defensive player from each team (I think) & the assumptions were Suh & Weatherspoon (sp?).
by ttownmikey on Oct 19, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Confused
Kowalski goes on to cite (WR) Roy Williams as an example. The Lions swore he was part of the team’s foundation, only to turn around and send him to the Cowboys in a highway robbery deal.
Does Kowalski not realize that Williams WAS part of the team’s foundation, and that the Lions only traded him BECAUSE it was a highway robbery deal?
If Dallas hadn’t been willing to give up more than Williams was worth, Roy would still be in Detroit.
Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl
I think DJ is the only "regular" that may see an exit.
Unless, like some have suggested, the value in return is very high(equivalent of a 1st and 4th at least) I don’t think Dorsey will see the door. He’s played too well and reminded people too much of his potential.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
I think it would take more then a 1st and a 4th
I think it would be a 1st and 3rd. I would only be happy with a 1st and a 3rd. The Bears dont even have a 2nd rounder. If the Chiefs traded DJ for less then a 2nd rounder I would be so pissed.
Like Dorsey, glad we took him
but….
if we can get a 1 and a 3 for him, or a 1/4….
Id have to take it and run…especially with Magee/Jackson as 3/4 DE’s.
Do we get any draft compensation if DJ walks?
He was a 1st rounder, I think still on his initial contract, do we get anything if he walks? I don’t remember what the rules are for compensatory picks, my bad.
I think since he's restricted we would get something
but it’s based on a formula that isn’t disclosed. I’d think it would be fairly high (3rd/4th round) since he’s been a starter for so long, but who knows….
Actually, I looked it up
it’s even more complicated than I thought:
“In addition to the 32 picks in each round, there are a total of 32 picks awarded at the ends of Rounds 3 through 7. These picks, known as “compensatory picks,” are awarded to teams that have lost more qualifying free agents than they gained the previous year in free agency. Teams that gain and lose the same number of players but lose higher-valued players than they gain also can be awarded a pick, but only in the seventh round, after the other compensatory picks. Compensatory picks cannot be traded, and the placement of the picks is determined by a proprietary formula based on the player’s salary, playing time, and postseason honors with his new team, with salary being the primary factor. So, for example, a team that lost a linebacker who signed for $2.5 million per year in free agency might get a sixth-round compensatory pick, while a team that lost a wide receiver who signed for $5 million per year might receive a fourth-round pick.
If fewer than 32 such picks are awarded, the remaining picks are awarded in the order in which teams would pick in a hypothetical eighth round of the draft (These are known as “supplemental compensatory selections”).
Compensatory picks are awarded each year at the NFL annual meeting which is held at the end of March; typically, about three or four weeks before the draft."
Pioli will not get taken.
I imagine he will listen to offers for any Chief. He would be foolish not to. This team has a lot of needs and draft picks are a good way to fix that for the long term. It may be Dorsey, DJ, LJ, Bowe, or nobody. He won’t give away a single player. If you want them, you must pay the toll.
The good thing about having so many needs is that we aren’t desperate for that “1” player to get us over the top. Those are the teams that make bad deals with the devil. Whatever Pioli does, you can rest assured that it will pay off in the long run.
I remember Dawson to Taylor, Kenney to Carson, and Blackledge catching the snap in his facemask. Seen it all...
RE
Some stats.
Dorsey is 4th on the team in tackles. He’s 14th in the league in tackles for a defensive lineman. He is the only lineman in the top 15 – in his 2nd year. Tank Tyler’s is the top 25, too. the lack of (a) sack is killing Dorsey’s stat line but he’s keeping up with players on better teams who havfe been in the league for 4 to 9 years.
He’s had a good jump in his second year – so far. He’s at the playing weight he’s supposed to be….if Jackson has a similar jump in production next year, we might have the best d-line in the AFC west with with the oldest player in his 4th season, which is outstanding.
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