Tony Gonzalez
by royalsfan99 on Oct 15, 2009 7:01 PM CDT
48 comments
I just wonted to know is anyone besides me glad tony Gonzalez is gone sher he was great but we got draft picks and he was retiring after this season i made a poll down bellow checking to see if other chiefs fans miss him or are kinda glad. But he did allot for us as a player and a person with his charity's and work with youth and his touchdowns but I hope he goes into the hall of fame as a chief.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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first of all...
it was one pick….a second round pick…..how many second rounders will it take to find another hall of famer? Not to mention the best possesion reciever in the NFL for a new coach, offense, and quarterback to build chemistry with.
by Sea of RED on Oct 15, 2009 7:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well...
it was his age factor and the idea that he would hang it up after this season. The only thing left he has to play for is a ring. A second round pick for a 33 year old TE is pretty damn good.
by I_Bleed_Red. on Oct 15, 2009 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's amazing
Seriously, job well done, Pioli.
Last year at the trading deadline, TG ridiculed Carl Peterson for thinking that anyone would pay a 2nd rounder for a 33 year old TE!
by Joel Thorman on Oct 15, 2009 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't say it was amazing.
If Pioli would have tried to use that pick in a trade for this years draft it would have been considered a 3rd round pick. So we have to go a full year of getting nothing for Tony and who knows how much a late second round pick is going to help us next year.
Chiefs set an NFL record,most roster changes in 1 season.
by bringbacktheglory on Oct 15, 2009 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry that sounded like I hated the trade.
I don’t, it got Tony what he wanted and it got us a pick.
Chiefs set an NFL record,most roster changes in 1 season.
by bringbacktheglory on Oct 15, 2009 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I miss him
but I wish him well. He is a classy guy that represented the organization well. That does not mean I would reconsider the trade. His parting, although sad, was a good move for the future of our team.
by chiefsandcigars on Oct 15, 2009 7:30 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
rec
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 17, 2009 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tony WILL go to HoF and it WILL be as a Chief - he's already said that
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 15, 2009 7:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
dead horse alert
:)
Of course we all miss TG… he’s one of a kind.
having that 2nd pick in the 2nd round will make us feel better, as long as it bolsters the OL for the next 10 years!!!
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 15, 2009 7:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Thank you
Someone break out the picture
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
by Buck'O on Oct 15, 2009 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ask and thou shalt receive (sometimes)
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Oct 15, 2009 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, let's just keep matriculatin' the ball down the field, boys! ...
by oldchiefsfan on Oct 15, 2009 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's the old addage that so many people never seem to grasp
It’s better to trade a player a year too soon, and get something in return;
THan it is to wait until a year to late when everyone realizes they aren’t worth much in a trade.
I love TG. Always have, always will. I wish him the best of luck in Atlanta and I really hope he gets a chance to win a playoff game before his retirement in 1 or 2 season.
That being said, a 2nd rounder for a 33 year old TE is a great deal. It may not have been the best for the immediate needs of the team, but in the long term it’s a benefit for a team trying to build a strong core of players.
BTW — as I said many many many many times in the offseason. We should have traded Larry Johnson for whatever we could get for him instead of gaurenteeing his 5million dollar contract and letting him show the rest of the league why you don’t re-up with a 30 year old RB with a history of off-field issues and locker room destroying antics.
That would have been a FINE example of trading a player a year too soon, rather than holding on to them “for old times sake” and hoping they could turn it around. LJ is now worth NOTHING in trade to anyone, and the Chiefs get to eat his contract.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Oct 15, 2009 7:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Look at what you said..
and then think about it..in regards to LJ.
“We should have traded Larry Johnson for whatever we could get for him instead of gaurenteeing his 5million dollar contract and letting him show the rest of the league why you don’t re-up with a 30 year old RB with a history of off-field issues and locker room destroying antics.”
What team would trade draft picks for a 30 year old RB with a history of off-field issues and locker room destroying antics, combined with a 5 million dollar contract for a player that missed 12 games in 2 seasons due to injury and suspensions?
Statistically, 2 seasons ago he was terrible. a 3.5 ypc average was disgusting. But he was still on pace to break 1000 yards with a terrible OL. 1 year later, in a gimmick offense, he was on pace to break 1000 yards again..with a terrible OL. But his ypc average increased to 4.5.
That said, Pioli was smart not to cut LJ. Nobody wanted to give up draft picks for LJ based on the same things that you mentioned in your original comment. On the same note, had larry played both of those seasons without missing a game, he likely would have put up 2000 yards..in 2 seasons..with 1 of the worst OL’s in football. Idk about you, but that sounds pretty good to me.
The problem isnt LJ. The problem is the OL not opening holes for LJ. Go look at the few big runs by LJ so far..most of those big runs didnt even have that big of a hole. Point being..give him a hole and hes really going to run through it. If the OL can open MORE holes in a game, LJ does good. He’s a hard runner..but he has to get to the LOS without getting hit first!
by Petey14 on Oct 15, 2009 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
The problem is most definitely LJ
The OL is terrible. I don’t deny that at all.
LJ is terrible too, and has been for 1.5 years. If we had the Priest Holms era OL on the field LJ would still be 15th in the league in rushing.
Should have dumped him for a bag of Cheetoes and 7th rounder, not re-guarentee his great big contract that the team when to arbitration to un-guarentee.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Oct 15, 2009 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How's that...
LaDanian Tomlenson contract re-up working out in San Diego?
Darren Sproles sure looks good, don’t he?
LJ is a 2 down back that used to have explosive power at the point of attack. Now he runs into his own players and falls backwards and needs a whole the size of a truck to run through.
That has nothing to do with the OL. - 30 YR old RB’s fall off about as quickly as a 2 ton stone off the side of Mt Everest. -- There is history to back that up. Charles had more yards per carry last year then LJ, and is a much shiftier runnier. He’s the kinda back that a team with a bad OL should be playing (assuming he doesn’t fublme 3 times a game). + he can stay in on 3rd down when LJ has to go sit on the bench.
Jackie Battle never seems to stop pumping his legs. His effort level on every play is impressive to watch, and he has more power at the point of attack than LJ does now.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Oct 15, 2009 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For one..
I dont see LJ running into his own players and falling backwards. And LJ knows what the playcall is and where the hole is supposed to be. If the OL cant create that hole, hes gotta redirect and go somewhere else. But the ENTIRE OL is bad. Waters and Albert are both struggling. So when he tries to redirect, hes already getting hit.
But thats not the point. LJ gets hit in the backfield or at the LOS by opposing players WAY more often than he “runs into his own players and falls backwards”. Go look at LJ’s longer runs of this season and the last 2 seasons. Not all of his holes have to be huge. Sometimes its not the hole, its whats waiting on the other side. Our OL used to take on the 4 DL AND send someone into the LB core to block. That doesnt count Jason Dunn and Tony Richardson blocking too. That helped Priest and also helped LJ during his great seasons. The OL we have now, we gotta keep all 5 guys, plus a TE just to stop the DL. And if we have a FB on the play, I’m willing to bet that hes trying to help cleanup after a mistake by someone from the OL.
You can still see LJ running hard. LJ is still quick on his feet and hes shown flashes of that. But what can you expect when 6 or 7 blockers can barely contain the DL, let alone guys coming in on a blitz. Teams know 2 things. 1, we cant protect the QB, therefore 2. we want to run the ball. If we cant block, neither of those can happen.
If you put LJ on a team that could block, he’d be better than 15th. He’d be closer to top 10..if not in the top 10. And THAT is why we didnt trade him. Because his potential was higher than his worth. If he couldnt be traded, then why cut him? Charles cant hold the ball and as much as I like Savage and Battle, theyve been struggling to be on the bottom of the RB depth chart for the last couple seasons for a reason. They each have talent but that doesnt make them consistant, and that doesnt mean they would do well if they were full-time players.
But let me get this straight. You’re telling me that if we had the OL of the early 2000’s, he wouldnt put up more than 297 yards (the current 15th rusher in the league) after 5 games?
If we had the OL of that era, Cassel would be able to throw, LJ would be able to run, Bowe would be clowning on DB’s, and our D probably would play better considering they wouldnt be on the field much. We’d probably be 3-2 right now, maybe even 4-1 if that were the case. Claiming the OL of the Priest era wouldnt help LJ much is ridiculous.
BUT, I dont think LJ is as good as his former self. LJ may be 30, but hes only rushed the ball 1300 times. To put that in prespective, after 2 full seasons and 5 games into this season, AP has carried the ball 700 times. so you could speculate that 4 and 2/3’s season would put him at 1400 attempts, more than LJ, yet AP would be in his prime. Tomlinson, who was drafted only 2 years before LJ, has double the attempts that LJ has.
I dont think age, or tired legs is the case here. I’m not saying that I think LJ is the 1700 yard beast that he was, but I do think he’s easily capable of being a 1200-1400 yard RB.
Dont get me wrong. I think we need a new RB too. But LJ is the best we got so we might as well ride him out while we can. Charles is good, but hes not an every down guy and he cant hold the ball.
by Petey14 on Oct 16, 2009 2:11 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Pretty much says it, there
We don’t even know what we have in LJ, or Cassel, or any other skill position that we may be unsure about until the OLine is able to get a few yards of push for our RBs and a pocket for Cassel to step into.
Until then we will NEVER be able to execute as a team at the level we need to be able to properly evaluate players. All we know right now is that our OLine is God-awful and that not a single RB, WR, or QB could possibly be successful in our current system with the schedule that we have had up to this point.
"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius, in contrary to Glenn Dorsey lining up in the 2-tech
by ArrowSpread on Oct 16, 2009 7:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I try not to
make extra long comments like that, but sometimes you gotta get the point across several ways. LJ didnt have a 4.5 ypc average behind a POS OL last year because hes at the end of his career. LJ is still a hard runner and he has shown that several times but without an OL there aint shit he can do.
by Petey14 on Oct 16, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My whole point
Was not weathr LJ is “the best we got”. which I still completely disagree with you about; but rather that we never should have re-guarenteed a contract for a 30yr old RB with off-field issues and an attitude problem when we KNEW that we had a team of newbies on the field and in the coaching booth.
Historically speaking the age of 30 = death of RB production in the vast majority of cases. Sure, you can point out a few where that isn’t the truth, but for every example you can give me i bet I can find the stats of 20 others that go the other way.
LJ was a malcontent public hater of both KC and the Chiefs last season. he left no question of that from things he said in the press and did in his off time. LJ has been on the decline for almost 2 years. You can argue that the OL is the whole problem all you like, but imo that isn’t the truth. And more importantly, isn’t the point.
If we knew the OL was gonna be young and green and shakey at best (which we did), then WHY would we re-up with a RB with poor blocking skills, slow legs, and poor power at the point of attack? Don’t fool yourself, LJ has lost more than a step, and closer to a leap. We watched him last year slam into the back of that OL over and over again with only the RARE breakout run to pad his numbers. Even when he had the breakout runs he managed to get caught from behind and brought down before he could score. His TD production in 2008 should prove that. -- Do you remember the Denver game? How much fee running room do ya need to turn on the afterburners and hit the end zone?
LJ has no afterburners. The only time he’s made any decent yardage this season is the few times he’s gone around the outside, BUT he doens’t have the speed to turn the corner on the outside unless he starts out with 7 yards of open room. Even then, he doesn’t have the speed to get past the LB’s before they squeeze the field.
Jamal Charles gets more yards per attempt, AND he can play 3 downs. Jackie Battle has more power at the point of attack and he can play 3 downs. Dantrel Savage’s feet never ever stop churning and he hits the point of attack with a LOT more explosion. All 3 of them have more speed, and still have afterburners to kick in if they get into space.
You say LJ is the “best we have” and we should ride him. I say we never should have re-uped with him to begin with AND there is no point riding a dead horse. LJ is a dead horse. We should be using a 3 headed running attack with guys that can break one loose and are a threat in space. We should be playing RB that can block for Cassel EVERY down if they have to. We need that extra blocking option on the field all the time.
LJ is the past, and this team is building for the future. It’s not all on the OL. The scheme should play to our strengths and try to cover for our weaknesses. The scheme should NOT keep handing the ball off to a North South power runner that simply doesn’t have the power he used to have. The scheme SHOULD be working with RBs that can block to assist the bad OL, not hand it to a slow guy with no explosion at the point of contact and asking him to make something out of a nothing hole in the line.
the scheme should be putting the ball into the hands of guys that have the speed to break the edge and turn the corner, and the shiftiness to elude tacklers, or to guys with explosion that put their head down at the point of attack and keep driving their legs and fighting for more. LJ is none of those things. He’s an aging RB with 1 trick in his bag that can’t block, has to leave the field on 3rd down, can’t turn the corner, can’t speed the defense. AND he doesn’t have a clear hole to run through, so his one trick is pretty much wasted……just like Hunt’s money on LJ’s contract.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Oct 16, 2009 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes..Charles has a higher ypc average..but
Charles fumbles the ball too much. Turning the ball over isnt going to help an already bad team. Period. Charles is NOT better than LJ because of that. Look around the league. ALOT of 2 back systems have the speed guy 2nd on the depth chart. ALOT of those speed guys have higher averages. That doesnt make them better RB’s. A change of pace is SUPPOSED to help. But if you have the speed guy in on every down, hes not going to produce what you think he will.
If Savage and Battle are better than LJ, then how come theyre fighting just to stay on the team? Do you really think that we have too much talent at RB and LJ is getting all the reps simply because of his contract? Come on dude..
Yeah, 30 is usually the start of the decline. But if you go look at ALL the runners who continued to produce after 30, its usually because they had a slow start to their career and hadnt carried the ball as much as their age would lead you to think. Thats the case with LJ. Only 1300 carries. Compared to other guys his age who are at 2000+
If we had an OL, LJ would be MUCH better. Im not saying 1750 and 20 TD’s, but if he can put up a 4.5 yard average, and be on pace to break 1000 yards..in the ArrowSpread offense, I’m pretty sure its a safe bet that he would be atleast a 1200 yard, 10TD back again. That is my point.
Please, tell me how you can logically come to the conclusion that after 12 games.. putting up 800+ yards, on less than 200 carries, with the worst OL in football, operating out of the Spread/Pistol formations for most of the year, that he cant be a 1200 yard back with an OL.
by Petey14 on Oct 17, 2009 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You guys are still just arguing different points past each other.
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
by kabrink on Oct 17, 2009 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was fun and informative though.
Money vs potential production :)
current reality vs possibilities
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 17, 2009 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once again....
You responded to my original post. My original post never claimed that LJ was not the “best” RB on the team. My original post stated that LJ is not nearly the back he used to be, and that he’s not the right back for the Chiefs based on his history in the city, attitude, declining ability, off field issues, and the current state of the team.
You KEEP on saying that LJ would be a 1200 yrd back on a team that has a good OL. I keep on trying to get the point across that KC DOES NOT HAVE AN OL; THEREFORE LJ IS A WORTHLESS RB FOR OUR TEAM.
I completely and totally disagree with you about LJ’s talent level. — Now, having said that it doesn’t matter if you are right about that or I am. The bottom line is that you think LJ is our “best back” and I think a back of LJ’s abilities is the “Wrong Back” for the Chiefs. Even if LJ were as good as you seem to give him credit (undeserved credit) for, it would not matter.
KC does not have a dominating OL. We knew this comming into the season. Last season we KNEW this so we played a pistol offense that gave everyone just a little more time to react to which holes in our sieve of an OL were going to burst on any one particular play. That extra time is the ONLY thing that allowed LJ and semblence of time to react to the blocking (or non-blocking as the case may be) and adjust his running route to try and FIND somewhere to go.
Even with that “advantage” in his pocket he was unable to score TD’s, couldn’t block worth a crap on 3rd downs, and never had the speed to break anything on the rare occation that he DID have a hole. LJ, at his best, was a 1 cut POWER back with explosion at the point of contact and legs that never stopped churning.
In 2008 he was a hesitent runner that couldn’t score, that was slow out of the gates and crashed into the backs of his OL because there simply were not enough holes. You keep talking over and over again about this 4.5 average on a team with no OL from last year. That is a completely meaningless staistic. THat’s the only reason I keep pointing out that Charles had better numbers. If your 4.5 is so important, than someone with more than 4.5 must be even better.
Please, tell me how you can logically come to the conclusion that after 12 games.. putting up 800+ yards, on less than 200 carries, with the worst OL in football, operating out of the Spread/Pistol formations for most of the year, that he cant be a 1200 yard back with an OL.
I have NO INTENTION of telling you that, or explaining it. I’m not even going to try because KC DOESN’T HAVE AN ELITE OL TO BLOCK FOR HIM, OR ANYONE ELSE. Therefore we will have to agree to disagree about LJ’s current abilities. You can’t prove he’s worth a crap as a RB, and I can’t prove he isn’t. What LJ CAN prove, and does again and again every week, is that He’s NO GOOD TO THE CHIEFS.
I’m not sure what fantasy world you are living in where a team holds onto players that are no good for THAT team, but it’s not a smart football move. KC should not have held on to a 30 yr. old, 1-cut, north and south power runner because KC is not built to play the ‘between the tackles, stuff it down your throat, ride the back of the RB’ style of football. The Chiefs simply cannot succeed with that offensive strategy.
They needed every last bit of that “gimic” pistol offense just to give LJ the hope and dream of an 800 season. Even with that gimic he still could not turn on the break away speed, or score TD’s.
The Chiefs are not currently built to play that kind of football. So WHY re-sign and reguarentee the contract of a 30 yr. old malcontent player that only has ONE trick in his bag. LJ has never been a good blocker, and we need our RB’s to play max protect and help block. LJ has never been a speed guy that could break away from defenses and we NEED a guy that can turn on the burners if he ever does manage to get free. LJ has never been a great perimeter pass catcher, and we need a guy that can drop into the flat after throwing a chip block on a blitz and help out the QB. LJ has never been a great route runner as passing threat, and we need that other option on the field.
LJ is not right for the Chiefs. If this were the LJ of 2004-2005 at full speed that still had the explosion at the point of attaack that he once had…….he STILL would not be the right RB for the Chiefs. He ISN’T going to get holes, not with our line. To keep arguing that we should use him because IF HE HAD HOLES he could be ….. blah blah blah…. is a pointless argument. I don’t agree with your assessment on that front, but that was never the point.
The point is……LJ is no good for the Chiefs. He’s not what we need. He’s not what is going to work for us, and every game that continue to try to hand him the ball from under center and power run between the tackles is just one more game in which he’s going to stink up the stadium. The 2009 Chiefs are not a power running team. LJ is/was a power running back. We need shifty, pass blocking, blitz pick-up, max protect, fast, route runners that read the blitz, toss the chip block, and run the hot route. LJ is none of those things. LJ is not our best option. LJ shouldn’t even BE an option, because he should not be on this team.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Oct 17, 2009 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
First off..
YOU were the one who said he wouldnt be a top 15 rusher if we had the Priest era OL. YOU said that. I disagreed, and still do. THAT is why I argued that he could still be a 1200 yard back.
Charles has a 5.1 average thats padded by his long run of 24 yards. If you take that out, its a 3.8, 1.5 yards more than LJ. But, I think he’d fumble the ball atleast once per game if he were in a fulltime role. I like his play making ability but not at the expense of turning the ball over too often.
THAT is why I say LJ is better fit for this team, out of what we have, right now. Charles turns the ball over, and Sav and Battle are bottom of the depthchart guys for a reason. They have abilities, but they havent done anything to TAKE the starting job. Haley is actually pulling for Charles to win the RB job, but he cant do it. You cant put a guy on the field if hes going to turn the ball over.
Nobody wanted LJ. And I’m sure Pioli shopped him around. Pioli doesnt keep players who cause problems but since Pioli has been in KC, LJ hasnt been a problem. I think AP came to the conclusion long ago that nobody wanted to trade for a nearly 30 year old RB, who had a history of off the field issues, missed 12 games in 2 seasons and wasnt in his prime anymore. So trading him wasnt an option. Based on that, what sense does it make to cut him when we dont have a legit replacement. I like Charles too but fumbling the ball is a serious issue that we shouldnt have to worry about.
by Petey14 on Oct 18, 2009 3:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What sense does it make?
It makes 500,000,000 Cents.
Cause that’s what were on the hook for after re-upping his contract.
I still disagree with you about his abilities. Even in the Washington win he only managed 3 something a carry, and if you “take out the big run” like you did with Charles, it’s right back to the 2’s.
I do believe that with the best line in the NFL LJ would be less than 15th ranked RB. You don’t. That’s fine, but keeping a ticking time bomb (he hasn’t caused any issues YET this season) ‘just cause’. Isn’t the best plan either.
I don’t expect Battle, Savage, or Charles to do anything to TAKE the position because LJ hasn’t done anything in the last 2 years to DESERVE it in the first place. It’s not LJ’s to lose, it’s everyones to battle for. So far, LJ has looked crappy in that battle.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Oct 19, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair is fair
But no matter who is running the ball, no RB on this team is going to average 4 yards per carry. ANY RB in the entire league would be lucky to even get close to 4 yards per carry. Adrian Peterson, Michael Turner, Brandon Jacobs..all different types of runners..none of them would be worth a shit in KC because the OL isnt blocking anybody. They’d get hit in the backfield just like our current RB’s are.
And idk what you keep talking about “re-upping” his contract. He lost his grievance, meaning the Chiefs can cut him without having to pay him his guaranteed salary/bonus because he violated his contract for being suspended by the NFL.
We didnt “re-up” his contract. We can still cut him at any time without having to pay him any guaranteed salary. You can read more about it here: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4046548
Basically, yeah we’re paying him his salary still, but we NEED to take up cap space, and if at anytime we need more cap space (we have all the cap space in the world so I dont see that happening) we can CUT LJ at no expense to us.
by Petey14 on Oct 20, 2009 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read it again
Special Master Stephen Burbank ruled that if the Chiefs cut him, they do not have to pay him a $3.5 million guaranteed salary next season because he breached his contract after being suspended last season
Look around some more for more articles on the subject; including here on AP.
IF the Chiefs HAD cut him before opening day THEN they would not be on the hook for his contract.
Because LJ was on the roster the opening day of the 2009 season his contract has been re-guarenteed. That’s what I mean by re-uping. We decided to keep the malcontent on the team instead of moving him or dumping him.
We could have traded him away with NO CONTRAT attached. Any team that picked him up would not have had to choke on a $5 declining back that ued to be a power rusher, but hand’t produced in 1.5 seasons. That was our chance…before the season started.
Now we’re stuck with him again, and his guarenteed contract until 2011.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Oct 20, 2009 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont think that is correct
From http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2009/4/6/824644/larry-johnson-loses-grievance
“Per a league source, Johnson’s grievance failed as to the question of whether the Chiefs are permitted to erase $3.5 million in guaranteed base salary due in 2009 and $250,000 in guaranteed base salary due in 2010 based on Johnson’s one-game suspension in 2008 for violation of the personal conduct policy.”
“As for Johnson, Burbank ruled that if the Chiefs cut him, they do not have to pay him a $3.5 million guaranteed salary next season because he breached his contract after being suspended last season, Berthelsen said.”
Not saying you are wrong..I just havent been able to find anything that says we would have to cut him before opening day otherwise his contract would be re-guaranteed. Actually, I remember people talking about him saying that since he lost his grievance, he’d be running for a new contract again. Sounds like all we did was reduce his guaranteed salary for 2009 by 3.5m and 2010 by 250k..making it easier to cut or trade him, IF we wanted to.
Again, I could be wrong, I just cant find evidence that says we’d have to cut/trade him before opening day or his contract would be re-guaranteed.
by Petey14 on Oct 21, 2009 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL who said never liked him?
I bet if we still had tG we would have won like 2-3 games.
Bowe and Wade FTW.
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
by NJChieffan16 on Oct 15, 2009 8:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Then he wouldve retired and we would go into next year down a 2nd round pick
Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes; after that, who cares?! He's a mile away and you've got his shoes!
by SuperTurtle on Oct 15, 2009 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At first i was worried because i thought it would be a late 2nd pick but,
the falcons arent the same as they were last year, we’re getting good value out of this. and we picked up a guy in leanord pope who can block pretty well, and has decent hands
by thewaffle1 on Oct 15, 2009 8:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
BUT, it isn't a 2 round draft for just any 33 year old TE
There are 33 year old tight ends and then there is Tony Gonzalez. An NFL Hall of Fame lock in wit the records to show for it. Maybe most every other 33 year old TE wouldn’t have gotten that much respect, but as i said, he isn’t just any other TE either.
TG is one of THE Chiefs for life legends.
Big Bear
by bigbearomaha on Oct 15, 2009 8:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Matt Ryan...
102 quarterback rating…“they arent the same”, I know their better.
by Sea of RED on Oct 15, 2009 9:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
we will have this conversation again this April...
unless the powers that be “take their ball and go home” and boot me off the site. I love the chiefs like everybody here, but the Allen trade and Gonzo trade really stuck a rusty fork in my heart.
by Sea of RED on Oct 15, 2009 9:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
and if TG plays this year and one more....
And then retires a Chief having won 3 Playoff games in 2 seasons with the Falcons….
… and the Chiefs use that 2nd round draft pick to add an OG/OC that plays for the team for 10 years in a starting role…..
….. How bout then?
Is 2 years worth of production on a BAD team that resultes in 3 more wins per season (knocking on the door of 8-8) really worth a 10 year starter on the OL that IMPROVES for the next 2 years and grows into a long term asset AS the team grows around them?
THe Chiefs were NEVER going to all of a sudden turn the team around in one year with a new coach, GM, OC, DC, and 30 new guys on the team. Never……ever…..ever……ever……
If TG were still on the team we might have won the Raiders game….maybe…..(The D lost that game on the final drive, TG doesn’t play D) — But we aren’t going to suddenly be a playoff contender because of one guy. Especially when that one guy did all but BEG a team he had been loyal to for all these years to be traded.
In the SHORT term it may hurt not to have him on the team, but in the big picture there really was no convincing argument to force him to stay on a rebuilding team. A 33 year old player with 1-2 years left and NO upside (read: his skill level can only decline at this point) in exchange for a 2nd round draft pick for a rebuilding team = MONEY
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Oct 15, 2009 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions 8 recs
Yes, perfectly stated.
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
by kabrink on Oct 17, 2009 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rec
Hope things are well with you Tex :)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 17, 2009 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
His words
Miss him, hell yes. The most reliable target for the last decade! But I’m still holding him to his word. I read an article back when he was traded that he promised and vowed to return to kc and retire as a chief, cant remember if he said he would play at all but i hope he lives up to returning.
"Larry Fitzgerald, move over because there's another young gun, and his name is Dwayne Bowe from Kansas City" - 2009 Cris Carter Hall of Fame WR
In Pioli We Trust! Right?
by KC Nate on Oct 15, 2009 10:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah that would be nice
I really hope he does, but I also hope he has the option too.
by saveushaley on Oct 16, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We definatley were not gona win a super bowl with TG. We did the right thing period.
by kcrules on Oct 16, 2009 1:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Tony Gonzalez GOAT
greatest of all time!
by saveushaley on Oct 16, 2009 2:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
How is it that it's just 'this year' we are rebuilding?
Since Herm Senior walked in the door, it has been said that this team is rebuilding.
So now we are rebuilding from rebuilding.
Of course we knew the team would struggle this year, it’s been struggling for several years.
It is of great optimism that we will get some “great” player from this pick. Hey, I hope someone good is gotten. I highly doubt it though.
I was one of those glad to see TG get what he wanted, a shot at the brass ring. He always said he would retire a chief. No worries there.
You can tell people all day long how great a trade a 2nd pick is but if that pick is squandered, and you have to admit, the Chiefs have a history of screwing up their picks, then we will have just lost again.
Big Bear
by bigbearomaha on Oct 17, 2009 8:14 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Rather than who is worth the Tony pick, What is worth the Tony pick worth to us?
Would replacing Tony with a 10 year Center, piss you off?
how bout a flyer on a WR?
CB?
Is this a pick that we are going to look back on and say we gave up Tony for X?
or we gave up Tony and we drafted so and so in the 3rd or Y was a great 4th rndr?
Will the 2010 draft be the Tony G draft?
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 17, 2009 8:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
trade
the trade has yet to be good. it all depends on who we get in that 2nd round next year and how well he produces. so if he’s a flop then the trade was worthless. lol. so only time will tell.
i think tony g’s attitude somewhat changed since he’s been a falcon, n e one see his interview on nfl network?
Proud Supporter of Tyler Thigpen.
by nfamous209 on Oct 22, 2009 11:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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