Just One Change to the Chiefs Depth Chart
by Joel Thorman on Oct 12, 2009 4:58 PM CDT
in 2009 Campaign
147 comments
After the Kansas City Chiefs fifth consecutive loss this season, I expected to see a few changes to the depth chart. It's become a weekly tradition in this space to take a look at the changes made. Many times the changes don't mean anything as far as time on the field and, other times, it's the head coach sending a message.
Today, there's one change as the team prepares for the Washington Redskins.
Drum roll please.....
(Yes, you have to make the jump. And, no, it's for for page views. It's to move you to the comments, maybe the best section on Arrowhead Pride.)
Jackie Battle has moved ahead of Dantrell Savage as the third running back.
Yes, folks, an overtime loss to America's team prompted this move (Actually it didn't). On Sunday, Battle logged one reception for three yards. He did not have any carries. Savage was inactive.
As far as I can tell, this is the least amount of changes to the depth chart since the season began.
As we look to the next possible roster move, it's always important to keep an eye on the inactives, which last week were Quinten Lawrence, Mike Richardson, Dantrell Savage, Bobby Engram, Ikechuku Ndukwe, Jake O'Connell and Pierre Walters.
The biggest question I have is why Engram was inactive and, really, why we haven't seen him much this season? He was brought on board not only for a veteran presence, but for production. He's two years removed from a 1,000+ yard season and has been virtually non-existent in Kansas City. Even Haley favorite Terrance Copper has been more valuable (special teams).
It's certainly a little strange to have little movement from a head coach that goes a long way to ensuring his players never feel comfortable.
Is this the calm before the storm? We shall see.
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You know what?
Stone hands Copper has been using those mitts to slug around pretty nicely on ST. +1 to his ability but not to his WR skills.
by butchcassidy on Oct 12, 2009 5:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah, i guess so
He’s usually around the ball on coverage units… and that’s been the strength of the team so far this year.
So… good work, TC :)
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 12, 2009 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yesterday i didnt even know his number
But when i watched the game i saw him on pretty much every ST play and i was impressed. Who cares if he cant catch…at least he is good on ST lol. Good job Copper….even though i have talked shit about you, you impressed me yesterday.
by Wrestler189s on Oct 12, 2009 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This pisses me off!!!
Savage has shown more this year than ANY of the Chiefs RBs. He should be starting IMO.
Haley is a dumbass!!!
by Chiefsfan1970 on Oct 12, 2009 5:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You made your point
No reason to call him a dumbass. Let’s stay away from the personal attacks.
by Joel Thorman on Oct 12, 2009 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personal attacks are the only thing
The AP comment board has been used for lately. I am pretty close to looking for a new place for chief news.
Predictions for 2009:
LJ runs for 1800 yards
Bowe in the pro bowl
Chiefs D finishes in the top 10 in points allowed
Chiefs 10-6
by bonesjackson on Oct 12, 2009 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then Don't Let The Door Hit You On The Way Out
Seriously…if you’re that unhappy, good luck finding a higher level of discussion than here.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 12, 2009 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Never said I was unhappy
What someone writes about me on here has no effect on my happiness. I want to find a place where people can discuss real things and actually read more than the headline before they start personally attacking someone else. I don’t know if it is elsewhere, but am still waiting to find it again here. It used to be a lot better around here and that is why I started posting on here. But now there is just a bunch of attacks on the message board without any conversation. Bad thing about conversations on the internet, is that someone can be a jerk without the personal repercussions of the actions one would have in a real conversation.
Predictions for 2009:
LJ runs for 1800 yards
Bowe in the pro bowl
Chiefs D finishes in the top 10 in points allowed
Chiefs 10-6
by bonesjackson on Oct 12, 2009 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sundays Suck ASS around here lately
but the rest of the week is more moderate and thoughtfull in tone
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 12, 2009 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's Just The Frustration Of The Loss
Happened last year too…people get thin-skinned about remarks criticizing the team (or applauding it), then mellow out over the week.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 12, 2009 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clarification
people get thin-skinned about remarks criticizing the team (or applauding it) on Monday, then mellow out over the week.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 12, 2009 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man, I was HOT after the Philly game.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 12, 2009 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I don't mean "HOT" in a good way.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 12, 2009 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Same Here
It still pisses me off when I think about it. I will tolerate incompetence for awhile from a head coach (I gave Herm two years). I will never tolerate a coach that quits at halftime down by less than three TDs. A coach who does that has no business holding a job in the NFL.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 12, 2009 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
welcome to the world we live in...
its not just here…its everywhere nowadays, especially on other chief’s blogs. i stick with AP because this is where i find it least.
by MountainManMike on Oct 12, 2009 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
everyone is just on edge
but you have to realize when you come in here and say a place like this sucks and you want to go somewhere else then be prepared for the attacks. I love this place rain or shine, so before you start attacking people for attack you, log off, smoke a cig, take a drink, do your thing. This is the best website on the net for Chiefs information. If you can prove me wrong let me know
by jrcnc on Oct 12, 2009 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well Put
Completely agree.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 12, 2009 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno. I don't even rec'anize bonesjackson as a commenter...
About all I’ve seen from him is that one post about how he’s about to leave because of how bad it’s getting. In other words, he’s doing exactly what he claims to be complaining about.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 12, 2009 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's Posted Here For Awhile
And he’s fine now…he was just venting. Moderators have it under control.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 12, 2009 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeppers. My comment was unneeded.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 12, 2009 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank god for Crawford
We wouldnt know what to do without you.
by gochiefsgo on Oct 13, 2009 1:55 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly...
I get pretty antzy when i cant check AP because i dont know what is going on the the team. When i go to the Coast Guard i have no idea what i will do when i cant check the news….shit, im going to have withdrawls lol.
by Wrestler189s on Oct 12, 2009 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey I wasn't trying to piss anybody off.
When I say Haley is a dumbass, it’s because that is really what I think. That’s my opinion. It’s not like Haley gives a shit about what Chiefsfan1970 on Arrowhead Pride thinks about his coaching. If he did care, I would GLADLY answer any questions for him. Hell, maybe I could teach him a thing or two. LOL!
by Chiefsfan1970 on Oct 12, 2009 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair
Nobody attacked anyone from this blog. The guy said haley is a dumbass. Big woop. Nothing wrong with that.
by gochiefsgo on Oct 13, 2009 1:53 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair
Nobody attacked anyone from this blog. The guy said haley is a dumbass. Big woop. Nothing wrong with that.
by gochiefsgo on Oct 13, 2009 1:58 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Just for my clarification
I have never been on AP during a win. Signed up (enlisted) in February.
Now aware of the quality of the People that hang out here I can just imagine WTF that would sound like. My gosh 2500 comments in losing efforts, what will be the count Sunday when we take that other Tribe to task! Can’t wait :)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 12, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If You Think This Is Bad
But now there is just a bunch of attacks on the message board without any conversation. Bad thing about conversations on the internet, is that someone can be a jerk without the personal repercussions of the actions one would have in a real conversation.
Go surf the KC Star message boards. People are pissed because the team’s in the crapper…you’re not going to find a Chiefs site where everyone is happy and not complaining. Arrowhead Addict just did a piece in fact on personal survival strategies for this season, and they’re very pro-Chiefs.
You’re following a bad team in the middle of a horrible season…this is just what you’re going to find.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 12, 2009 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude
The Star board is worse than this when we are a winning team. I don’t even mess around there any more. Gretz’s comment board really sucks too. It just sucks that being stuck in the middle east I cannot have real conversations with other fans and no one really comes to have conversations. I never said I had a place in mind to go just that I wish there was a place where there were real conversations taking place and not personal attack after attack. I don’t mind reading someone calling a coach or player a dumbass, I just prefer that when someone posts something to discuss it be discussed and not just an attack of the poster based on the headline
Predictions for 2009:
LJ runs for 1800 yards
Bowe in the pro bowl
Chiefs D finishes in the top 10 in points allowed
Chiefs 10-6
by bonesjackson on Oct 12, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You Can Always Rebut Their Comment By Providing Evidence Of Your Own
Or write a FanPost, or a FanShot, or do any number of things.
This site gives commenters a lot of power in generating content…if you’re unhappy with what you’re seeing, by all means create some of your own. You’re not going to find that on very many other sites out there. I’ve yet to see another Chiefs site that allows it to happen.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 12, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amen
Even some of my lame efforts :)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 12, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think "lame" is even close to describing the "lame"ness, Steve_Chiefs.
Heh. Enough of the self-deprecation. You care about people and you care about the Chiefs. That’s plenty.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 12, 2009 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry about you being stuck in the middle east
i have been stuck there 3 times as well. Everyone just needs to mellow out a bit. We are 0-5, we are inconsistant, we cant move the ball, but we as fans need to hold together. Heck everyone says there was more Cowboy fans at the game than Chiefs fans. If the Marines didnt have me stationed away from Missouri then i would be at every game cheering for the Chiefs! lets not forget that we are here on this great site to “support” our team win or lose!
by jrcnc on Oct 12, 2009 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Support Is About Voicing Your Opinion
Negative or positive. It’s also how you stay sane in a season like this.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 12, 2009 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
completely agree!
tomorrow when i go back to work with a bunch of cowboys fans i will support the Chiefs! Anyone is allowed to voice their opinion and i like to hear both sides positive and negative. I just cant wait until we all get to bask in the glory of the Chiefs! It will come maybe not soon but we will return to us. The NFL goes in cycles. Right now my wife is a Colts fan, and i always tell her “wait until they are like the Chiefs and lets see if you stick with them” i doubt she does. We are the true fans, and we have to continue to stay the course. I hate logging on here and seeing the "i quit, im never coming back, this team is horrible, fanposts. But i read them and laugh and say they will be back. AP has a hold on all our lives, just like the Chiefs do
by jrcnc on Oct 12, 2009 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually urs lately ucrawford has been subpar.
by Chieffan_Toby on Oct 13, 2009 12:04 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I love this site… I get enough of a negative vibe watching games at arrowhead, then u log on here… Which I do numerous times of day… And u get people with unrealistic expectations… Thinking Haley or pioli should hve turned this ship around in one off season. We have been a horrible drafting team.. Let a o line crumble over the last few season… It’s gonna take time. Just breath in deeply and look for positive.. Because it will get worse.. Let pioli do his job.
by Chieffan_Toby on Oct 13, 2009 12:17 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I Think Haley's A Dumbass
What has Battle really shown over his career? At all? He’s got a career 3.2 ypc compared to 4.4 for Savage (albeit both in small sample sizes). Frankly, the really dumb thing is that Haley’s not putting Larry Johnson behind both of those guys, no matter which of them (Battle or Savage) he values more highly because Johnson’s stunk on ice all year.
I don’t think it’s really a personal attack to call Haley a dumbass when he continues to do dumb things. That’s just part of the discussion. Frankly, I really only care that people on this site aren’t attacking each other…as far as I’m concerned they can call the coaching staff or players what they want as long as they’re willing to put up with the feedback from the rest of AP.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 12, 2009 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
As For Haley's "Dumbassery"
I’m also willing to give him the year to see whether he’ll learn from his mistakes. But frankly, if he’s not figuring out where he’s screwing up (firing Gailey, hiring the people he did, screwing with the depth chart to play games with players) I don’t hold a lot of hope for him. It’s one thing to be a taskmaster…it’s another to screw with people for no higher purpose than you don’t want anyone questioning you no matter what results you are (or aren’t) putting up. Because in the end, a head coach’s worth in the NFL is only about the wins, and Haley hasn’t got any yet.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 12, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would imagine at least "Dad" Haley would give some serious input :)
Now maybe the talent evaluation has passed him by (Dad) but maybe not.
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 12, 2009 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To follow
Maybe (Dad) Parcells is washed up to in Pioli’s corner but again Maybe not :)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 12, 2009 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish Bill Parcells was our Coach.
by darwithabar on Oct 12, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Wish Leslie Frazier Was Our Coach
I think he’ll be good. And the last Minnesota DC to get a HC job (Mike Tomlin) turned out okay.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 12, 2009 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My jury's out on Haley, athough I pretty much respect the way he's handled himself.
Chiefs were a team last year with a few talented players and a whole bunch of B- and C-list talent. They turned over quite a bit of the talent, but pretty much everything I’m seeing, including the depth chart business, appears to me to be a situation in which NObody’s really stepping up to OWN the #1 spot in SEVERAL position areas.
I think the OC takeover is also talent-related. I think Haley’s learned that the issue was with the players, and not so much the OC, because he’s having much the same problem Gailey had. And I don’t know about the rest of ya, but I’d be more than OK with going after a TOP left tackle, and moving Albert to G. I think he’s a good/great lineman, but I don’t think he’s a dominant left tackle, or really has that in his future. Hope I’m wrong, but…
I don’t see any drama in DJ’s situation. I just see a coach who’d LOVE to annoint DJ the starter, but has yet to see DJ earn it, for various reasons. To me, this looks like a situation where the Chiefs are actually blessed with some depth, and the guy that’s been struggling with nicks isn’t top dog, anymore. Not a big deal to me.
I think maybe we’re seeing the REAL reason Pioli’s in KC, right now: Carl missed on a LOT more than just a few obvious reaches. Virtually ZERO players developing into quality players. After a decade or so of treating symptoms, we’re seeing just how tough it can be to treat the root problems, which were deeper than I ever really thought.
And the player development part on the coaching end has been TERRIBLE.
And the player retention part on the organization’s part has been TERRIBLE. Anybody who was halfway decent couldn’t wait to get the hell outta Dodge.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 12, 2009 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Earning It
I just see a coach who’d LOVE to annoint DJ the starter, but has yet to see DJ earn it, for various reasons.
If that’s what Haley’s thinking then he’s an idiot, because the guys playing ahead of Johnson sure as hell aren’t “earning it” considering how shitty the defense is.
I think he’s just not interested in keeping Johnson around so he’s playing other guys. I don’t think there’s any head games to it…Johnson has the ability to leave, the Chiefs aren’t going to pay what he’ll likely ask for, so they’re moving on.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 12, 2009 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see it that way.
I don’t think Williams was a weak link in the D. And I don’t think that interest in keeping DJ around later on has much to do with the minutes Haley’s giving DJ now. DJ has a decent, but not difference-making record. He’s not somebody you hear teams talking about having to scheme againist. He’ll likely be a very good player for quite a while, but he isn’t worth breaking the bank for, especially after his offseason was spent in such obscurity. You break the bank for this kid, and you’re likely to face a 6- or 7-game stretch where he’s either less-than-100% or his backup’s starting. In either case, you have a true 1st-round talent that you’re going to get to see on the field about 70% of the time, not counting the game or two it takes to knock off the rust, not to mention the advantage of having a guy a step slower who missed NOTHING and makes NO mistakes.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 12, 2009 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
70% or some other figure noticeably below 100%
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 12, 2009 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Haley's just trying to establish a base-level of GOOD
Sure, he wants great, but across-the-board-every-play-good is something this Chiefs team hasn’t seen in several years. And the way the team is being built, and the philosophy I suspect is behind it, TEAM play at LB is more at a premium than flashes of brilliance. So being in position and knowing your job is probably at more of a premium than the extra step that DJ clearly has (when he’s healthy). They went STOUT up front and they want SMART at LB behind that. We’ll talk about the lack of QUICK and FAST behind THAT in another post, somewhere…
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 12, 2009 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Dad Input" Didn't Turn Dave Shula Or Mike Nolan Into Good Coaches
So I doubt it’ll help Haley all that much. I think you either understand this game or you don’t and bloodlines don’t really mean anything.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 12, 2009 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not bloodlines
advice lines would be more apropo
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 12, 2009 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dick Haley Was Never A Coach
He was a personnel guy.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 12, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus
He’s working for the Dolphins right now.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 12, 2009 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe we need to beef up the Communications links to Miami:)
DS3 maybe.
Or just a Fat Ass pipeline we can shoot players back and forth during the week, Like the Bank Teller Tubes!
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 12, 2009 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmmm. Old man in looking at KC's big men. Next thing, there are 2 new guys here from Miami.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 12, 2009 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nolan
Is an excellent DC however and that is coaching right?? I am still thinking we made a mistake in our choice for DC.
Predictions for 2009:
LJ runs for 1800 yards
Bowe in the pro bowl
Chiefs D finishes in the top 10 in points allowed
Chiefs 10-6
by bonesjackson on Oct 12, 2009 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But He Was A Gawdawful Head Coach
While coaching for his dad’s old team.
Just saying, having someone in the family who did the same job isn’t necessarily going to help you to do that job.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 12, 2009 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Your right about that
I just wish we had him instead of the Donks. 5-0 Donks and 0-5 Chiefs are the only thing to be glad I am not at home in Colorado Springs…
Predictions for 2009:
LJ runs for 1800 yards
Bowe in the pro bowl
Chiefs D finishes in the top 10 in points allowed
Chiefs 10-6
by bonesjackson on Oct 12, 2009 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look at the DBs the Donks have.
Champ Bailey, Brian Dawkins, Alphonso Smith (3rd? CB taken in ‘09). They can cheat up a lot more aggressively with their LBs than KC can get away with and show 6-man front all day long with 8 in the box, whether they send 4 or blitz all-out. And I think they’re blitzing more than most people seem to think, even though their 4-man rush is effective, because you never know when they’re bringin’ all 6, and it does disrupt protection schemes to the 4-man rush’s advantage, especially if you never know which 4 guys it’ll be.
Broncos have a lot more flexibility in their coverages, starting with being unafraid to single-up Champ. Do you think that seeing Flowers, Carr, or Leggett singled up outside doesn’t give offenses lots of good options? I’m sorry, but KC is a team without a single shut-down corner.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 12, 2009 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Point taken
Rec
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 12, 2009 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crawford
I know how you feel about Haley :) No prob he’s got a year.
My question? Why is Goff and Johnson and others still 1st team?
Do you seriously think it is possibly a Pioli call on some of these guys and thus “money”.
Rather than what they bring to the field?
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 12, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no way
for everyone saying that Haley should only have the year you are wrong, we gave Herm 3 miserable tortourous years! Look at the cards they were dealt. For everyone on here saying that LJ was going to be halfway decent is halfway out of their minds! We all knew he was washed up, if only Peterson would have dumped him and kept Allen! Give this thing some time, I dont care about the depth chart, because quite frankly the entire team needs to be shook up! And we all know this
by jrcnc on Oct 12, 2009 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hindsight is 20/20
well, if we had pulled the hershall walker type trade with green bay we would be sitting in a better position in theory but look at who was doing the drafting.
i was a fan of getting rid of JA…sorry if i dont trust an alcoholic who owns part of a bar not to drink and drive again. he was a crybaby who didnt show he was mature enough to stay clean. that being said, after thinking about it, if JA had stayed, i think they would have found a way to make the 3-4 work with him. when u have a player that good, u make it work. i seem to remember Gun running a bit of a 3-4 with DT early on. now JA is no DT but i still think u could make it work.
by MountainManMike on Oct 12, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was precisely the difficulty in getting someone as good as JA who was NOT also a head case...
… why the Chiefs aren’t a 4-3 team, anymore. They couldn’t stock the shelves!
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 12, 2009 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think LJ is washed up.
I think he’s pretty much what he’s always been, plus a little wiser and a little better at corraling passes (nice one-hander on a SWEET Cassel screen pass). Getting better at protections, too. Just not great at either of the last two skills, which didn’t matter at all when all he had to do was jog behind an impenetrable line of blockers. As long as the O-Linemen don’t mind LJ knockin’ ‘em on their faces when he wants through, there’s no real problem with LJ.
The problem is O-Line.
Having said that, I think that a Jackie Battle or Dantrell Savage or Jamaal Charles gives the Chiefs a BETTER chance of winning behind a struggling line. But could those three guys SURVIVE THE BEATING? Not sure. LJ gives as good as he gets and comes back for more. Not sure how long any of these faster/quicker guys would last, but I know LJ ain’t workin’ in the current situation. But you give him a better line and he’ll have a Corey Dillon renaissance.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 12, 2009 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
2.4 Yards Per Carry Begs To Differ
And the other backs are doing better than him playing behind the same line.
Like I said in another comment, Johnson’s top-end speed may be okay, but I don’t think he’s got a first step anymore. Whenever a hole (or something slightly resembling a hole) does open up, he’s slow to get towards it and he doesn’t move quickly enough out of the backfield to get into the open field to use that top end speed. Everything I see out there absolutely screams “washed up”…and that’s what the stats also reflect.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 12, 2009 8:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Larry's ALWAYS been that 1st-step-slow.
You’re saying pretty much what I am. Only place we differ is you seem to think LJ used to be quick at one time. He’s still pretty much the same runner he was in ‘04 ’n’ ‘05, imo. He just doesn’t have a line in front of him.
But rather than split hairs with a master such as yourself, I oughta run with the stuff we agree on, namely, that a quicker back would give this anemic offense a better shot at the present time. But even if I parted ways with LJ after his contract expires, it wouldn’t be because I thought he was washed-up. It would be because a RB without that first step (and that lack also hurts him in protections, imo) isn’t worth the kind of money LJ’s making or would likely demand in contract talks.
I’d MUCH rather draft RB in 3rd and later rounds, pay them accordingly, and if they wind up as starters, pay ‘em DECENT right away (that means tearin’ up a rookie contract if he starts as a rookie and produces). And no matter HOW great he does, the minute he wants $7 million a year, I’m lookin’ for somebody to pay $1 million to.
I personally think that NFL underpays those long-shots who DO make the starting lineup too little, largely because they overpay a handful of guys they fall in man-love with.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 12, 2009 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tomato, To-mah-to
Whether it’s the line or his ability, the guy ain’t getting the job done and he’s not worth his contract.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 12, 2009 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again
Stats are not black and white. A lot of it has to do with the offensive line and the playcalling. Remember the NYG game? They kept handing the ball to LJ out of the shotgun formation, with no lead blockers, and he kept getting hammered by an unblocked linebacker (I think it was Boley). LJ’s skill set IS NOT right for that type of situation. Once Haley learns the difference between Charles and LJ’s skill set, both will be a lot better.
by T-Rich on Oct 12, 2009 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Really Don't Know
Goff should be relegated to the deepest part of the o-line bench…he’s been that bad. Johnson seems to be there for no other reason than that he’s “Larry Johnson” and for some reason Haley seems to think that a guy who was a good running back three years ago is still a good RB today (even though he’s clearly been terrible). I can understand him sticking with those two a little longer I guess, but if Goff and Johnson are playing like this all year and Haley’s still starting them, I think that definitely calls into question Haley’s ability to figure out a good player from a bad one.
For Pioli and money being the reason they’re playing, it’s crossed my mind but I can’t really say. If so, that’s blatant stupidity because if merit plays no part in who gets a start it’s only a matter of time before this team no longer cares what management has to say.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 12, 2009 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dang!
I have a secret confession: When I saw Goff leave the game with a bad neck, I actually had a surge of hope that Ndukwe would start taking over at RG, and we’d start seeing some things go better. Turned out Ndukwe wasn’t even active on Sunday.
And while I’ll defend LJ’s strengths all day long, I think it’s clear that he’s not enough to make a difference in this offense, as currently constituted. But if that’s the case, why aren’t one of Charles, Savage, or Battle takin’ the job from him? If there’s one thing I tend to believe about Haley is that he tries to run a meritocracy, and lets NO one rest on their laurels. So either his rubric is all messed-up or there’s nobody on the roster giving KC a better chance than LJ.
Myself, I’d rather take a chance on a younger player fumbling, for the opportunity to see him bust a few plays open, than play a style of ball that keeps you IN games, by minimizing turnovers and trying to create turnovers on D, but at some point, you have to take those chances, especially when you’re 0-5. Don’t tell me what gives you the best chance of winning, when you’re on a 5-game losing streak…
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 12, 2009 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
It’s not a personal attack if it’s about a member of the team or coaching staff. It’s just a poor, unimaginative comment. I’ve made some of those myself :)
Personal attacks only apply to other members of the site.
Please read our community rules, netiquette rules and our technical overview before commenting.
by Chris Thorman on Oct 12, 2009 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Same Here
By way of a hypothetical illustration, if Todd Haley were to decide that he wanted to pop on Arrowhead Pride and debate the finer points of his strategy with us, or if Scott Pioli were to login and argue about the trades, while I might call Scott Pioli the GM or Todd Haley the coach a complete dumbass I wouldn’t be calling Scott Pioli or Todd Haley the commenters dumbasses and I would argue their points on the merits.
On the other hand, I also suspect that Scott Pioli would never actually pop onto a blog to post so he’s fair game and I have a sneaking suspicion that Haley would last about 10 minutes before he got into it with someone and forced DTR or me to give him the boot. :)
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 12, 2009 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't wanna jinx it, but...
… last week I said Haley oughta try a flea-flicker on the 2nd play from scrimmage. SOMEthing other than what he’d been doing. Heh. He DID IT! Might’ve been a big play, but only went for 5 yds and the auto-1st-down on the defensive hold.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 12, 2009 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the backup there UC.
I appreciate it.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Oct 12, 2009 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
calm before the storm
Maybe they haven’t had time to review the game film yet…
But, I can’t for the life of me explain why they wouldn’t make a change and get Goff out of there.
That being said, I am sure there will be some moves and changes soon…
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 12, 2009 5:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
How many plays did Alleman get at RG.
Seemed like right after Goff went out we got a great push on a running play up the middle.
Plus some better blocking on a few passing plays right about then.
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 12, 2009 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Several peeps noticed that as well Steve
I think he only got about 3 or 4 plays in.
Yeah, let's just keep matriculatin' the ball down the field, boys! ...
by oldchiefsfan on Oct 12, 2009 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd leaven that with the fatigue factor on Dallas D. Chiefs' conditioning DOES give Cassel better protections late in games.
Also, they lined up a TE outside of the left tackle when Albert left the game. Frankly, I sort of expected a LOT of 2 TE sets out of the Chiefs this season, when they didn’t get aggressive on O-Line. And then I scratched my head when none of the TEs they brought in seemed like much of a blocker. I was REALLY hoping to see a dominant blocking TE who could ALSO catch (as a changeup against a LB, after the D forgets he’s also eligible), and so far nobody except Ryan seems to have his heart in even TRYING to be a good blocker.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 12, 2009 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's calm before the storm as well. Something seems to be brewing at Arrowhead One.
Yeah, let's just keep matriculatin' the ball down the field, boys! ...
by oldchiefsfan on Oct 12, 2009 5:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You just back from Recon, OCF:)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 12, 2009 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep, trying to use my ninja like skills
and wear a t-shirt that says “You can’t see me, I’m a ninja”
Yeah, let's just keep matriculatin' the ball down the field, boys! ...
by oldchiefsfan on Oct 12, 2009 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ninja Cat
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 12, 2009 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL. Thx for memoriezzz
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 12, 2009 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'll admit
I was on copper hoping he would get cut for some time now. I have started noticing that he is showing up making plays on Special Teams. This is why he is still around and probably will be over guys like engram
by KCCheeze on Oct 12, 2009 5:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
yep, I've been calling for his head, too.
He’s the WR version of McGraw… special teams beast, makes you cringe when he’s on the field otherwise.
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 12, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think a lot of our starters are playing ST this year
Most of the secondary I think!
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 12, 2009 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's true
but, McGraw and Copper should never be starters on defense/offense.
:)
And, i think most of the secondary was on ST last year, too
I do like the improvement on punt/kick coverage…. now finding a return game of our own would be nice
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 12, 2009 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe returns are tooooo Coordinated
Let the Returner see the Field, attack what he sees, and By Gum hold onto the Ball.
Charles or Wade.
Seems most of the time we run right at the scrum instead of away from the Big Dog Pile of would be tacklers!
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 12, 2009 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point. And maybe give McGraw a tryout at WR and Copper a tryout at DB.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 12, 2009 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Waters, and DJ for Wilfork?
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 12, 2009 5:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If we can put Wade at LT and not kill Cassel
We can surely put enough dead weight in front of him for the D to trip over :)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 12, 2009 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Time to Put in Charles on every down..And Savage as the #2
I can’t believe Derrick Johnson is not playing…The guy is one of our best Linebackers and has made some big plays this year
by CALIFAN1986 on Oct 12, 2009 5:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Or still working his way back from a lotta nicks.
I think he has serious day-to-day health issues. He spent a lot of the offseason nursing injuries. This isn’t Martyball where the annointed one gets his job back. This is Haleyball, where you earn your way back into the starting lineup.
Haley’s way might not be perfect, but he has to try to be objective and, for all the faults in the systems he sets up to BE objective, he has to stick with it, or he’s breakin’ his word to his men. It might not pay off right away, but I think that in the long run, player acquisition and retention will improve. I also think there’ll be a lot fewer week-to-week demotions and promotions after Pioli and Haley have been here awhile and the ranks are filled with players who get it.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 12, 2009 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was he listed on the injury report?
I don’t think he was, which means he’s not injured.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Oct 12, 2009 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How often have YOU been injured? (Not meant as provocation.)
What is it? One week off a groin injury? I’m just sayin’ that technically being able to play and being 100% are two different things. Plus, I think with Haley, the onus is on the player to win his starting spot back coming off an injury. He might not have a PERFECT scheme for evaluating players, but I think being dinged and missing practice loses the player points in Haley’s system. I think he could love a player to death, but if, in spite of ALL the attention Haley pays to conditioning and taking care of your body, that a player kept missin’ time, he’d have a hard time fighting his way back into the lineup.
And but for a pair of injuries to O-Line yesterday, the Chiefs were one of the most injury-free teams around, weren’t they?
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 12, 2009 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When is the trade deadline again???
Is it week 6? (like in madden)
by DWWMRW on Oct 12, 2009 5:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Oct 20th
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 12, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I highly doubt we trade DJ......
I wouldnt nessecarily be mad if we did trade him. I think the colts would be the best suiter but what would we get for him. I would be happy with a 2nd and some change but would asking for a 1st be to much.
by darwithabar on Oct 12, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no way we get a 1st for him, no way possible unless someone is doing an illegal drug somewhere
by jrcnc on Oct 12, 2009 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We Won't Get A First Day Pick For Him
Not when he’s not on the field for us and he’s a UFA after the season.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 12, 2009 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree..
He averages 6 tackles a game. Patrick Willis averages 9 and he is a MLB. Chiefs fans never gave him a fair shake even though he has been consistent. Each season he has atleast played 13 games and had 80+ tackles. He had 4 FF last year. Many people consider him to be one of the top 10 OLB in the league.I dont think we will get a 1st for him. But I think a 2nd is clearly pluasable. Would anyone else be satisfied if they did trade him for a 3rd. If they were willing to get rid of DJ for a 3rd he would be gone by now. He will probably get franchise and resigned.
by darwithabar on Oct 12, 2009 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think he is still injured
that is why he isnt playing. He will be back in there against the Redskins and i look for him to make some plays. I doubt we franchise him, i would like to see it and for him to come back. If he wants outta here then we need to at least get something from him though. because i dont want to go through the whole crybaby to whitlock thing again and then see him somewhere else racking up 20 sacks a game. Get it figured it, resign him or get something in return!
by jrcnc on Oct 12, 2009 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Patrick Willis Isn't Riding The Bench
Nor is he a UFA after the season (a UFA that any team will be able to pick up without giving up a draft pick). Johnson’s not a franchise-worthy player so no team’s going to trade that much for him with the hopes they can keep him around. We’ll be lucky if we get a 3rd or 4th rounder…which I’d take but I’m just saying that he’s not really valuable trade bait.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 12, 2009 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question
But I think a 2nd is clearly pluasable.
Why would any team give up a 2nd rounder for a player who’s never performed at a top five LB level and who’s an unrestricted FA after the season when they can just sign the guy this offseason for a journeyman contract while still keeping their 2nd rounder? Nobody’s going to franchise the guy if they got him, like the Raiders could do with Richard Seymour.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 12, 2009 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I only used Patrick willis Because he is the best in the game.
They will franchise him, He is a top 5 OLB Now we really cant say for a 3-4./ Dunta Robinson and Carlos Dansby are not top 5 at their posistions. Bo Scaife isnt, either. They were all franchised. The stats dont lie, Ill beleive what you say crawford when you show me 10 LB with stats like DJs, in the last 4 years. He had 96,80+(in 14 games), and I believe 97, Now thats not including this year. Show me 10 more, I gurentee only the best have 80+ tackles the last 3 years. And he was on a bad defense.
by darwithabar on Oct 12, 2009 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True if he doesnt play the rest of the year He probably wont get franchised.
They are not gonna let him walk for nothing unless he doesnt play the rest of the year.
by darwithabar on Oct 12, 2009 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DJ might be a solid OLB for some 4-3 team, but he's ILB in this 3-4.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 12, 2009 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I know that..
The reason I used 4-3 in his case is that is the only posistion that ive really seen him in substantially. He did well as a MLB too but didnt even go a full season. He isnt a top 5 LB like a Willis or a Suggs but any team would give up more then a 1st for a top 5 LB. Dj is well worth a 2nd rounder. The stats dont lie.
by darwithabar on Oct 12, 2009 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough. Agree with your "top 5" talk.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 12, 2009 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus tack on 4 FF last year and 2 FF the 2 years before that.
by darwithabar on Oct 12, 2009 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No question he's produced some decent stats.
But they don’t keep “out of position” stats, and I certainly haven’t tracked ’em.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 12, 2009 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Must be more to it
DJ is a very good LB. There has to be more to it than we know about. I don’t think it would be wise to trade a high quality LB, when we need the depth. The only way I could see it is if we get an outstanding starting O-Lineman as a trade.
by TXChiefan on Oct 12, 2009 6:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe there is something in the works with Buffalo ,they
are down 2 LB’s for the season, i could see DJ heading east,what they get in return i dont know
by Bestofthewest on Oct 12, 2009 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good info
shuffling off to Buffalo to see whats up:)
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 12, 2009 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
but
if they wanted to bump up his trade value wouldn’t Haley want to throw some token responses out there for his lack of production?
This seems…..different…like hes trying to motivate DJ, but not really.
"I will fight you!"
"What is your weapon?"
"My bare hands!"
"That is stupid. I will use a sword and I will cut off your bare hands."
by CT Chief Fan on Oct 12, 2009 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah. Like the only hidden agendas are in the minds of us fans...
Demorrio’s been healthier and he’s been playing well. Plenty to criticize about this Chiefs team, but DJ-vs-Demorrio is NUTHIN’!
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 12, 2009 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's something.
Until Williams gets a pick or sack, DJ is the better player IMO. Haley is pissed because DK isn’t playing his games. He’s ‘punishing’ DJ while we continue to get picked apart in the middle of the field.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Oct 12, 2009 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see it as soap opera.
Maybe it is, and I just don’t get it. I get the sense that DJ’s a yo-yo player, clearly capable of making big plays, but perhaps not all that consistent. Coming into this season, DJ had 3 career picks in 4 seasons. Woo-hoo!
As for picks and sacks, in 4.25 seasons, DJ has a total of 13 sacks and 4 picks playing for a team that’s been ABYSMAL covering the short stuff underneath. It’s NOT like having DJ has EVER prevented the Chiefs from bein’ picked apart in the middle of the field. In fact, as with Mark McMillian, a once-loved nickel back for the Chiefs, I could make the case that the only reason he has ANY picks is because QBs have absolutely NO fear about throwing the ball in, around, over or through him.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 12, 2009 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Passes defensed is not bad. 6 in each of last 2 seasons. Total of 21 PDef.
Those are solid starting LB numbers. Not earth-shattering, but solid. And that’s my take on DJ, in a nutshell.
I think if he gets 4 consecutive weeks of good health under his belt, he will likely emerge as the starter at ILB. Since Haley’s been here, he’s been a guy that shows promise, but always has some little thing make him stumble. Nothing personal or political in that.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 12, 2009 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another thought
as I watched the game yesterday and after Bowe came off the field, Haley got right in his face about running a wrong route (i assume), and as this happened I thought “how much longer will KC players take the earful and NOT tune him out?”
Winning cures all ills, but until then do you think he might lose this team in the mid-term?
"I will fight you!"
"What is your weapon?"
"My bare hands!"
"That is stupid. I will use a sword and I will cut off your bare hands."
by CT Chief Fan on Oct 12, 2009 6:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Haley's Made Enough Bad Choices
That I think it should be a legitimate concern for him. People will only put up with an asshole for so long…and if he’s not getting results patience runs out quick.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 12, 2009 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haley is trying to be too much like Parcels, but hasn’t had enough success for players to take that type of coaching style. I agree with UC, he needs to start winning or the players are going to be turned away.
(Also, do you think Brian Waters is just jumping up and down with excitement, waiting until the end of the season to say “what happened to those 22 guys off the street? Were they not available this season.” Haha).
by T-Rich on Oct 12, 2009 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Suspect
That Waters would prefer to be on a team that wins games rather than get to play “I told you so” with Haley. Nobody wants to play for a team that gets its ass kicked for four months, no matter how much of a jerk the HC is.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Oct 13, 2009 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seemed to me on one of those that Bowe was takin' his medicine, because he knew he had it comin'.
That’s not MY style of dealing with people. I figure they already feel bad enough without adding a tongue-lashing, which I figured out around age 40 was more about the ego of the guy doin’ the bitchin’ than about fixing a problem with the guy on the receivin’ end. But I ALSO know that when I’m in the heat of the moment and just statin’ the facts, I come across like a ton of bricks. Never saw myself that way until I saw a band rehearsal somebody recorded and MAN what a vicious little bastard!
OTOH, I spent a fair amount of time growing-up back East before moving out West, and back east and in the cities, there’s a viciousness reserved ONLY for guys you respect. There are unwritten rules in these exchanges, and Haley’s “meanness” might just flow from his being a part of that ultra-competitive culture.
I’ve heard Haley’s smart mouth and I’ve heard Cunningham’s smart mouth, and it seems to me that Haley gets it, whereas Cunningham WAS just a big-mouthed egotist.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 12, 2009 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
rec
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 12, 2009 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually...
Bowe was on 810 this morning. When asked about that very thing, he replied that he and Haley understand eachother. Bottom Line… Don’t let misinformation or media opinions make you think one way. The players are the ebst avenue for the truth. If they are unhappy, it’s pretty easy to tell…
BTW…Bowe called into the show. It wasn’t scheduled. He called in as soon as they began criticizing Haley for his practice stunt on friday…
Seems like a good sign to me when a player who “appears” to be getting reemed all the time calls into a radio show to protect his head coach…
by bbrock05 on Oct 12, 2009 6:47 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Yup. There's a brotherhood there, and they're not at ALL interested in inviting us inside.
So we speculate when we see Haley gettin’ into Bowe’s face. And what burns guys like Shitlock on stuff like this is they keep it in the family.
And when people try to bait Haley into calling-out DJ, he deflects the whole issue by talking about Demorrio. But remember, just last week, Haley was talking about how DJ clearly has all the tools to start @ LB, but he has struggled with injuries and Demorrio has played very well in his stead. What part of that did everybody not get the other day?
I think maybe too many people are into “Reality” shows, where we see all KINDS of drama between essentially well-fed and healthy people without a real problem in the world! There’s PLENTY of drama in real life – death, sickness, war, famine… Makin’ a soap opera outta FOOTBALL? sigh…
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 12, 2009 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And thx for the FACTs. That's the true strength of a blog like this. People steppin' up to the plate, like UC is sayin'.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 12, 2009 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Get someone better and younger to replace Mike Brown
seems like he’s been getting beat on important plays all season.
by calichief on Oct 12, 2009 7:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You can see he's a step slow, even against some the league's TEs.
I can see situations where his savvy gets the Chiefs D off the field, too. He’s mainly in there (imo) to help coach up the other guys and get the D playing as a unit. But his lack of speed is an exploitable weakness, to my eye, too.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 12, 2009 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Figures Goff still sucks
-Alleman outplayed him taking only 4 plays to do so, but his slow ass is back in -
—Leggett needs help he’s Pollard 2.0 trying for the INT on every down.
by Ren on Oct 12, 2009 7:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Leggett's comin' closer. That's how you're supposed to play the outside leverage.
He’s just a little bit slow or not quite strong enough to finish the play on the ball or the receiver. Will he develop? Hard to say. He has an intriguing skill set.
But with the outside leverage, he’s expecting help to the inside and, as the trailer on the crossing routes and slants, he should be tryin’ to make a play on the ball. But he should also make the tackle when he can’t get to the ball. Like Pollard, he failed to do either one. This isn’t an attitude or just “tryin’ for the INT.” I think it’s just a failure in execution and he mightn’t be good enough to execute at the NFL level. He came into the leage a long-shot with some real upside in terms of quickness and leaping ability. And now Pendergast is puttin’ his feet to the fire, saying, in essence, “We’re done dying a death of 1,000 cuts. We’re gonna shut ‘em down or we’re gonna get burned.” And he rolls the dice.
I don’t know WHAT the hell the deal is with Alleman-Ndukwe-Goff. I just know that things ain’t working with Goff in there, and when things are bad, change is good. For that reason, I’d be in favor of trying Charles or Savage as the starting RB, and Alleman/Ndukwe at G. @ 0-5 it’s hard to argue that you need to take your time on those kinds of changes for continuity’s sake.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 12, 2009 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amen
I’d be in favor of trying Charles or Savage as the starting RB, and Alleman/Ndukwe at G. @ 0-5 it’s hard to argue that you need to take your time on those kinds of changes for continuity’s sake.
Make it so.
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
by stagdsp on Oct 12, 2009 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll take it a step further and say pull Niswanger too.
Let Alleman play Center and put Ndukwe at RG.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Oct 12, 2009 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's kind of a catch-22, because it'd look like a team in total disarray.
Oh yeah. 0-5.
I can definitely see the appeal in going in a TOTALLY different direction. What I’m seeing is a strange mix of reluctance-to-change and headlong shakeups. Putt-puttin’ along with McIntosh until the eve of regulation, and BANG, Ndukwe starting at ROT and BANG O’Callaghan starting at ROT.
Frankly, I figured to see Ndukwe at RG the minute O’Callaghan took over at RT.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Oct 12, 2009 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with some of what you said about Leggett
but it seems to me that him and several other players have a real problem with basic fundementals,and mental mistakes.And at this point they should be past those kinds of things for the most part.
But when guys can’t get the fundamentals down you have deeper lying problems.
Leggett got burned what 3 times against Dallas,yeah he should have had help,someone back there,but 1 play in particular he left his feet,essentially taking himself out of the play.
And if you aren’t big enough to tackle or take a guy down just hang on and slow him down till you get help,just basic shit our guys arent getting done.If they wrap up and tackle,we could be sitting at 2-3 now,not great no but way better than 0-5.
by Bestofthewest on Oct 12, 2009 11:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LEGGET~
tell him to leg it out of here~
EVERY GAME, EVERY TEAM, throws his way! NOW YA KNOW WHY!
LEGGET LEG IT OUT OF HERE PLZ!
What do LAWYERS and SPERM have in common?
One in TEN MILLION make a HUMAN!
by Kansan_Chief on Oct 12, 2009 10:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Haley could be great
Look Haley got hired late. he will need this offseason to get this team ready for next year.maybe they get Romeo Cornell as DC . we get some o line picks in the draft. pick up some good F A in offseason. the guy cant please everyone. but give him 2-3 years. remember Carl Peterson left this team with nothing. Carls best move was to hire Marty Schottenheimer. when Marty quit Carl was lost.
by Charles # 1 chiefs fan on Oct 12, 2009 11:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Once Wade came aboard, Engram is worthless. They are the same player, sepearated by 8 years in age. I hope Engram is cut soon.
by dablueguy on Oct 13, 2009 3:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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