Second Guessing Chiefs Not Going for Two Against the Cowboys
by Joel Thorman on Oct 12, 2009 4:34 PM CDT
in 2009 Campaign
54 comments
I figured this topic would come up. In the fourth quarter of Sunday's loss to the Dallas Cowboys, Matt Cassel hit Dwayne Bowe for a good lookin' 16 yard touchdown pass. That put the score at 20-19. I asked the reporter next to me, 'Do they go for two?'
'Why not?', he said.
At the time, it made sense to me to go for it. I'll get to that a minute but I can tell you that the mood in the locker room after the game, after speaking to a few players, was that head coach Todd Haley made the right decision. The responses I got were pretty similar: 'We fought this hard to get into this position. Let's not put it all on the line with a 2 1/2 yard conversion.'
From the players perspective, Haley was showing faith in them by sending it to overtime. Jon McGraw shared a similar sentiment when asked about the decision to send it into overtime.
"He gave us a chance to win the game in overtime," McGraw said of Haley after the game. "It's great when your head coach believes in you and I think the whole sideline believed we would win the coin toss and go down the field and score and win the game."
So, why try the two point conversion?
Because you might not put yourself in a position like that again. Why take the risk of not getting the ball back? To put it another way: Would you rather have the ball on your own 35 yard line on first down or on your own 2 1/2 yard line on fourth down? Is there a better position to be in than 2 1/2 yards away?
I know this debate has been around for years. The usual thinking is that you go for two on the road and for the tie at home. The players say go for the tie, I say go for the win, what do you say?
0 recs |
54 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
good call
Haley made the right call, even though it cost us the game in the long run, the players believe that the coach believes in them. What they need to do is show the fans and everyone on damn espn that they can win a football game! When they won that coin toss i sure thought it was over, and then when we got the ball back on the 50 i thought it was over. The Chiefs just need to win, and finish these games, it shouldnt have even came down to this, we were winning all game and should have stopped them.
by jrcnc on Oct 12, 2009 4:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
If they had gone for two and failed this site would be blowing up about how much of a idiot Haley is. A better discussion would be debating how they could have gotten 10-15 yards when they had the ball at midlfield in OT so Succop could end it.
by stram#1 on Oct 12, 2009 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i would have fully supported going for two make it or not as long as it wasnt the shotgun draw play haley loves. going for two was the right thing to do and he didnt do it.
by MountainManMike on Oct 12, 2009 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right call
Not only did the Chief win the opening coin toss but then, after they failed to score, the D got a stop and got the offense a 2nd chance…at the 50.
This one falls on the players.
Be sure to check out the Arrowhead Pride weekly Power Rankings
by Patrick Allen on Oct 12, 2009 4:44 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
hey PA you still go to that bar in NYC?
by jrcnc on Oct 12, 2009 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Every week
Village Pour House. We always need more Chiefs fans. The more we lose the harder it is to get people to keep coming out. We were down to 5 Sunday.
1st two weeks we had 2 dozen.
Be sure to check out the Arrowhead Pride weekly Power Rankings
by Patrick Allen on Oct 12, 2009 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ill be in the city for the holidays, the end of hanukkah to be specific
i think i will make the trip over from queens for the cleveland game. i googled it and it looks good and i cant wait to go there, we were suppost to leave earlier this month but didnt but i know for sure there will be two more Chiefs fans there (die hard ones at that, i’ll show you my tattoo) for the Cleveland game. What station should we get off at if we are taking the LIR to Manhattan?
by jrcnc on Oct 12, 2009 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
but if we did go for two and not get it
then how many people in here would have been calling for Haleys head? I probably wouldnt have even logged on here today because it would have been outragious!
by jrcnc on Oct 12, 2009 4:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
Sure there would have been some people that would’ve been upset but I think a lot more would respect the guy for going for the win.
by Joel Thorman on Oct 12, 2009 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think all the negative nancys would have been out in full force if we didnt get it
i would have supported any decision, i even thought they may fake the extra point and try it but regardless they are our team and i support the decision, we should have just finished them off!
by jrcnc on Oct 12, 2009 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Herm was vilified when he went for two v. San Diego. And considering it would have been a draw play, it was the right decision to kick the extra point.
by T-Rich on Oct 13, 2009 12:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its a tough call...
the PAT is the safe call and 9/10 the right call (which I believe it was).
With a PAT he’s putting the responsibility and trust solely on the shoulders of the guys out there on the field. Its then up to them to make the plays to move the ball (or stop the opposing team) and make plays when it really matters the most…
on the other hand…
The Chiefs are ranked relatively high (around the top 1/2 of the league I believe) in red zone scoring so staking that claim against the Cowboys the Chiefs may have had an easier time going for two rather then trying to win in OT.
The question then becomes in that situation on Haley’s coaching ability once more if he goes for two. If he converts he’s a genius if he doesn’t he’s a loser head coach and a failure.
by butchcassidy on Oct 12, 2009 4:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
maybe they could have had Vrabel come back in and get the two?
because i know i wouldnt have put the ball in LJ’s hands at all.
by jrcnc on Oct 12, 2009 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
normally...
…the formula you mentioned is the correct one. When you’re an 0-4 team struggling to find an identity, though, you go for the win. As soon as the Chiefs scored that touchdown, I felt certain that they should’ve gone for two instead of giving Dallas any more opportunities. How is there a difference between believing in your players to get the job done in overtime versus getting it done on one lone play. When Ws are this hard to come by, you jump on the chance. I for one would not have second-guessed Haley today had they gone for two and not gotten in.
by bankmeister on Oct 12, 2009 4:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree
with the counterpoint regarding believing in the team. Does the offense now feel that Haley DOES NOT believe in THEM?
by KCMizzou on Oct 12, 2009 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They got the ball at the 50 and couldn’t get a first down to get into field goal range. They know they can’t be trusted.
by T-Rich on Oct 13, 2009 12:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hard to say it was a bad decision
when we had TWO chances in overtime, One from the 49.
by GHOST OF DT on Oct 12, 2009 4:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
if F@#C$#%@ Mike Goff raises his head
then we are all sitting here talking about how the Chiefs upset the Boys! Mike Goff has to go, his days are done and i will question the coaches if they continue to use him.
by jrcnc on Oct 12, 2009 4:54 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
ooo
That’s a really good point, jrcnc. Can’t believe you let a man jump over you and allow him to jump again for that block. Inconceivable.
by bankmeister on Oct 12, 2009 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
everyone in America knew
against the Giants the announcers pointed it out, and im sure mulit million dollar players see that stuff in film review, how did we not see it and not address it?
by jrcnc on Oct 12, 2009 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Twice!
Ratliff did the same thing on an early FG try and almost blocked it!
I can’t see how the coaches didn’t catch this!
It is a new Era at Arrowhead. I do not yet know if it is one of greatness or one of ineptitude. I am excited to see which way it goes, and will support my team until the end, bitter or sweet!
by KC4Life on Oct 12, 2009 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was like a 50+ yarder
No guarantee he makes it
I'd rather die on my feet than be living on my knees
by ArrowDread on Oct 12, 2009 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would've liked to see him at least get the kick off though
by butchcassidy on Oct 12, 2009 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no doubt
but still no gimme
I'd rather die on my feet than be living on my knees
by ArrowDread on Oct 12, 2009 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't have been against
going for 2 considering you’re 0-4. I’m not upset about the decision though.
by KCMizzou on Oct 12, 2009 5:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The right call was made
I never even thought about the 2 until Aikmen mentioned it.
Predictions for 2009:
LJ runs for 1800 yards
Bowe in the pro bowl
Chiefs D finishes in the top 10 in points allowed
Chiefs 10-6
by bonesjackson on Oct 12, 2009 5:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow, I definitely would have gone for two.
We’re 0-4 and going no where fast. We worked our asses off to stay in the game, fought back, and could have had the last say in the game going for two. We had nothing to lose and a shit ton of pride and confidence to gain. Go for it. If we make it, great. We showed balls and stepped on their throat when we needed too. If we don’t make it, whatever, we’re 0-5 and still going no where anyways.
by Chiefs447 on Oct 12, 2009 5:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
sure at the time its tempting
but I agree on the road you go for it, at home you dont
by SDChief on Oct 12, 2009 5:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If Maurice Leggett doesn't miss Austin TWICE we wouldn't be having this conversation
Frankly the call on the PAT doesn’t matter, Leggett’s poor tackling and our offense’s inability to do anything when they were on the doorstep is the problem.
by tebunker on Oct 12, 2009 5:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't blame the corner
I blame the safety on that one. Corners need to be aggressive and safeties need to be there to back em up when needed.
by jmcgoblue on Oct 12, 2009 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
on which one? Because both passes Maurice had him "wrapped" up but couldn't finish the tackle
Brown didn’t do anything better on the first long touchdown, but on the OT one it may have been the defensive call that put the safety out of position
by tebunker on Oct 12, 2009 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget the fumble no-call in FG range in the first qtr.
That would have given us enough to win as well.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Oct 12, 2009 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget Carr's "almost" pick
But then again, Austin was a beast last night…
by Chiefs Fanatic on Oct 12, 2009 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Should have gone for it
Why not? NFL overtime is a joke. Dont even mess with it. Win the game right then and there
I'd rather die on my feet than be living on my knees
by ArrowDread on Oct 12, 2009 5:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I would have loved for them to go for 2
However I do think Haley made the correct call. I think he did give this team it’s best chance at winning by going into overtime. Also, can you imagine the backlash that going for 2 would have caused if we hadn’t made it. All these people, who are now saying that going to overtime was a bad decision, would now be bitching about “how stupid Haley was for going for 2”. You can’t please everybody, but he made the right call.
by Jawookie on Oct 12, 2009 5:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Im so glad we didnt go for it.
Herm would have gone for it…and look what happened almost everytime he did, WE LOST. Congrats to haley for stickin to the simple plan and gut it out in overtime. I am still depressed about yesterdays loss…Somebody please give me a drink….
by Wrestler189s on Oct 12, 2009 6:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
How many times did Herm go for it and lose? 1 time. Don’t bring Herm up, because Haley hasn’t proven he’s better than Edwards by any stretch.
by T-Rich on Oct 13, 2009 3:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What the H ell
I would have gone for it, what’s the worst case you end up feeling like you do now? I would hope somewhere in all the practices they have a “just in case break glass play” or was Vrabels play it? The boys had obviously gotten their “stuff” together at that point and the charity was likely over.
The pluses from going for it and winning far outweighed the minuses in my opinion.
“God hates a coward”
by DFisr722 on Oct 12, 2009 6:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
going for two
puts the game in the hands of a play.
overtime puts the game in the hands of the team.
If the team can’t win the game it doesnt deserve to
by SillyHatDay on Oct 12, 2009 6:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If backlash factors into his decisions...................
He hasn’t got the metal to be the man!
by DFisr722 on Oct 12, 2009 6:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Really
I just think going for it and getting it would have been huge for the TEAM. What better example of a guy having faith in what he has built? Those players would have had to admire his stones for giving it a whirl. Them boys could have set quite a few demons loose in one play. Not to mention sending Mr. Jones away sniffling. Like I said worse case your 0-5………………….
by DFisr722 on Oct 12, 2009 7:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
True...
but then there would have been the Well what if we didnt go for it and we won in OT…Its a double sided sword…either way there will still be the other side to it.
by Wrestler189s on Oct 12, 2009 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He clearly made the right call.
The offense moved the ball in OT, the defense got a 3 and out and we started on the 50 yard line. Can’t fault Haley for that he made the right call and put them in a position to win and they didnt get it done.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Oct 12, 2009 7:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
FYI
I wouldn’t be here bemoaning him if he had tried and failed either. Yes he put them in a position to win in OT but THEY had put themselves in position to WIN in regulation and would not have had to worry about the Dallas offense.
Kind of reminds me of another KC coach (not Herm) who liked to play it safe, course then he never won the big games either eh?
I’m done. :)
“Some days it’s better to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission”
by DFisr722 on Oct 12, 2009 7:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think going for the tie was a better choice.
2 point conversions are about 40% chance and KC hasn’t been too good around the goal line.
I also would have punted rather than tried a 53 yard FG. Pin Dallas deep and wait for Romo to make a mistake or settle for the tie.
KC did get their chances in OT – just didn’t convert.
by WarWolf on Oct 12, 2009 7:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
