Patience is Needed in the Chiefs Locker Room
by Matt Conner on Oct 1, 2009 11:31 AM CDT
in 2009 Kansas City Chiefs Campaign
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PrintWe predicted it would come to this. Many posts on this site in the offseason concluded the first half of the 2009 season would range from uncomfortable to absolutely brutal. Of course, that might be a safe assumption since last season concluded with a 2-14 record, but for many fans, the blank slate, the supposed parity in the NFL (save that misnomer for another time) and arrival of Scott Pioli and Todd Haley equaled hope for better days. Heck, we play in the AFC West, so anything is possible, right?
Well, one close look at our schedule would have told you we'd been in these waters. And the advice is the same advice given now: Be Patient.
Year one is always grueling in a complete overhaul in any franchise. Pioli and Bill Belichick both endured a horrible first season in New England and many of us remember the ridiculously poor first year for Jimmy Johnson and the Dallas Cowboys before they ran the '90s table on everyone else. It's a season of settling schemes, finding the proper talent or at least identifying where you have none.
You can see it in the way Pioli is throwing pasta at the wall to see if it sticks. We've signed more random players than the Indians in the film Major League and we're not afraid to turn things over no matter what it does to intangibles like "chemistry" or "continuity." After all, consistency doesn't amount to anything if it's going to consistently bad.
More after the jump
Personally, I didn't think we'd hit our first win until after the bye week and into the second half of the season. As exciting as some of the offseason additions were, the fact is that every team is making the same changes, the same adjustments, the same evaluating everything they need to do to achieve success. So inevitably, some teams will fail to do so. The Chiefs simply didn't enter the season with the familiarity with the schemes and the overall talent, especially at key positions, to make it work.
What's most important isn't patience with the fan base, however? Start to win and everyone will be smiling again - even with the first one. What's essential, instead, is for the players to remain patient. For those Chiefs in this for the long haul, building some momentum in the second half of the season will become crucial for the years to come.
I'm afraid, however, that Coach Haley might have already lost them in the process by the time that comes around. After all, as bad as it feels now at 0-3, consider how the locker room or practice field must feel at 0-7. Of course, you hope for the best and I think the second half offers some exciting opportunities to find hope. But with reality settling in on this roster of players, it's important to hold the fort, play smart, disciplined football and continue to do what you can no matter the record. The wins will come in time.
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Rec'd
I always look forward to your words of wisdome connerman…good read as always.
Don't Fuccop Succop
by chicks_love_chiefs on Oct 1, 2009 11:42 AM CDT reply actions
disappointment?
The only real disappointment is losing to the Raiders. No one in their right mind thought we’d beat Philly or Baltimore on the road.
Hopefully we’ll get a win before the bye. I think we always have a chance at home, despite playing NY and Dallas. And @Washington is a winnable game. Of course, being winnable and being the underdog are not mutually exclusive.
by VermeilLikesToCry on Oct 1, 2009 11:48 AM CDT reply actions
Very nice write up
It very refreshing to read this post especially with all the negativity going on here at this site. Still blows me away that people think this 0-3 start is Pioli’s fault for not doing this or haley not doing that. Pioli has done the best he could. O line options were weak unless u wanted to severly over pay. We have young defensive talent that just needs to gel.
by Chieffan_Toby on Oct 1, 2009 11:51 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
What I don't get
or what I’m tired of hearing is about this extensive overhaul Pioli’s had to do to this team. Pioli really hasn’t had to do much dirty work and the real gutting of this team was done on Peterson & Edwards watch. It seems like we were told this old house of ours was salvagable and just needed to be ripped down to the studs. Once we got there we could build something to last on. After some time of being bare exposed walls we didn’t like what we saw and decided maybe its just better to bulldoze the whole damn thing and start over.
Welcome to Chiefs REBUILD - Version 2.0 /The Clark Hunt Edition
Chiefs will be lucky to go 4-12 in 2010
by KansasCityShuffle on Oct 1, 2009 11:55 AM CDT reply actions
Really?
32 players (I think) from last years 53 man roster isn’t gutting? Only 4 have been picked up by other teams (shows actual talent on our 53 man roster last year)
Herm gutted the older players that had larger contracts… That doesn’t mean he brought in talent to fill those spots. He brought in young players and that was all. Pioli has done the same thing… The only difference is that our system on both sides of the ball is totally different now. Pioli needed to find players for the 3-4 on both the front 7 and the secondary. On the O he had to find players that Haley wants to run the style of O that he runs.
Whether it is right or wrong it is how it is being done… I think it just sucks that we were rebuilding for the last 2 years under Herm and now we have to deal with it again for another 2 years.
by flyin_squirl on Oct 1, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
I've seen comments like this before
Pioli needed to find players for the 3-4 on both the front 7 and the secondary.
How is a 3-4 CB different than a 4-3 CB?
Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl
My remedial understanding
Please forgive my laymans’ understand of this, but I don’t think 3-4 and 4-3 are the issues with CB play. Its the old Tampa 2, cover 2 defense that the issue…
3-4 requires physical man coverage CBs, since it involves blitz packages from unknown locations. You want the CBs up close and in bump & run type coverage, to take advantage of off-target throws from the pressure on the QB…
4-3/Tampa Cover 2 Defense is predicated on pressure from the front 4 (DEs/DTs), which includes more zone coverage. CBs cover theirs zones with help deep from the safties on either side of the field. Less bump & run man coverage in the cover 2…
"Every day is an evaluation and if you’re not out there how can we depend on you? If you’re out there and you don’t know what to do, how can we depend on you?" Accountability -- Haley-style...
I remember the pain
I grew up as a Cowboys fan in South Dakota before moving to KC 10 years ago. I recall my great glee at being able to rub in the two Superbowl victories in the 70’s on my Vikings fan friends. Then came the 80’s, and the gradual decline of my favorite team. Sound familiar?
They would make the playoffs in the early 80’s only to get bounced (the Montana to Clark TD pass was especially painful). The record gradually got worse and the playoffs became a memory by 88.
In 88 they drafted Michael Irvin and in 89 drafted Aikman. That 1-15 season in 89 was the most brutal I had ever experienced. How they managed to beat the Reskins to salvage a win still amazes me. There were doubts about Jimmy Johnson being able to coach at the NFL level, and all kinds of negative news from Dallas.
However, through shrewd talent evaluation, and trading away Hershel Walker for a crap load of draft picks to the Vikings (HA HA Vikings fans), they built a winner.
I see a lot of similarities between those Cowboys teams and our Chiefs. We have a good talent evaluator in place, we have a coach who many are questioning his ability to lead a team at this level, and we are starting to get some building blocks in place.
I concur with the author, we have to let this play out for at least a couple of more years. It won’t be overnight, but I think the wait will be worth it. Will we win three Super Bowls in the 2010’s? Maybe not, but I truly believe we have the right leadership in place to make it happen. So much so, I just bought the rights to 4 lower level season tickets starting in 2010.
Go Chiefs!
by Spruce on Oct 1, 2009 12:06 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd
…what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent speech were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone is now dumber for having heard it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
some of that "feeling"
about inside the locker room may be off…they may love haley, pope sure seems to coming in…matter of time till they get the right 53 that feed off his energy.
I think the FANS need to be patient with haley, and with cassel.
I can't come on the site after a loss. I was really surprised by the vitriol on here.
After a spring and summer of people writing about how tough the first half of the schedule was going to be I was really surprised to see people going nuts. I have a coaching background, so maybe me approach to watching these games is more cerebral than emotional. I think the team is in very good hands, but this project is going to take a while to rebuild. I suppose the Chiefs could have spent wildly in free agency, but that doesn’t look like it’s done the Redskins a whole lot of good.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
I agree with the above (Slappy). The thing that I'm learning, I believe, is that there should
never be a reason for “completely rebuilding” a team. I don’t think they should get rid of guys unless they are 1) completely incompetent, 2) wanting way to much money, or 3) they have a good replacement. Herm and Peterson got rid of way to many guys that still had a lot of ability, such as Wiegmann and some of the others that went to other teams and did a good job and even won SB’s. (the LB that went to the Giants?)
Peterson's unpardonable sin to me was when he let to O-line get old and had nobody to replace them.
Peterson did a lot of good in KC and I think many people who hop and off the bandwagon don’t realize this. The Chiefs were irrelevant in KC in 1988. KC was a baseball town in 1988. Peterson changed the sports mentality in the city (to be fair, the Royals constant ineptitude has helped a lot). But the Willie Roaf retirement debacle was when I turned on Peterson for good. Apparently he thought Roaf was going to just un-retire.
But I agree, ideally a good GM is finding parts to fit into the older parts once those get too worn down. It’s been mention on here a lot, but 28 (I think it’s 28) guys on the Chiefs roster last year are not in the NFL this year. There was a tremendous dearth of talent here and you don’t fix all that in one off season. I like the moves that are being made now simply because it puts pressure on the guys to perform.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
Yeah...
letting K Mitchell go was stupid. He was one of Peterson’s non-first rounders that actually did something. He was a solid player playing in front of two inept defensive tackles. I think he would be perfect for the LILB spot right now.
Good write up til after the jump.
I don’t think Haley will lose the room and I think the win comes before the Bye. People have bought in and the only people he might “lose” are the guys who had to live through last year because they will be burnt out from losing. I think we’re still due for some good moments as this season unfolds.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
well said, my friend, well said.
As someone mentioned above, no one expected the Chiefs to beat Baltimore or Philly.
We all expected a win vs the Raiders… and we were almost right.
So, this team is ONE WIN worse than expectations at this point.
I get the distinct impression that the Chiefs are in training camp mode, still, at this point.
They still haven’t settled on starting lineups, still haven’t figured out the protections and schemes, Haley still hasn’t figured out playcalling, etc.
It WILL come together, but it WILL take time… I just hope that you’re wrong about Haley “losing them” in the meantime… They have to keep the faith. The best way to do that, obviously, is to get a win sometime before the bye week.
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
Many of us expected this year's team to look better than last year's.
Win or lose in Balt and Philly, the team looked bad. In the loss to Oakland, the team folded at the end of the game and lost, just like last year.
If we were playing well (not wasting time outs, missed FG chances, pressuring the QB, protectin the QB) a loss would still sting, but improvement would ease that pain a bit. That is not the case so far this season. I hope that changes.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Oct 1, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
That is my problem NJCF
I didnt necessarily expect to see a win in Philly but, i did expect to see a team that was better than the one we saw the week before. This team has digressed. I don’t care if we are winning at this point but, i do want to see a team/coach on the field that are doing everything they can to TRY to win every single game.
After i heard Haley explain the 2nd half of that game as " we were trying to establish a run game" That’s when I knew and know that he is still evaluating this team and he has no desire to even attempt to win games against a “better opponent” he will use those games for evaluation purposes and try to impose his game plan, even if/when it’s obviously not working.
This IS the regular season. it’s time to get serious. Evaluations are supposed to be done by now and we are supposed to be several weeks ahead of where we are right now. If the coaches are still evaluating, then, the reason for this shitty excuse of a football team we are seeing falls squarely on the shoulders of Todd Haley.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Oct 1, 2009 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Absurd
You mean to tell me you honestly believe Haley isn’t trying to win games and isn’t spending hours upon hours studying film evaluating talent, schemes etc to do so? Really? You can’t be that ignorant. Fact, our o-line went out of its mind last game and couldnt block ANYONE for 3 seconds. Haley was trying to get in their kitchen by forcing them to run block even though the other team knew what was coming. The other option was to let them get whipped like dogs and let Cassel get killed.
Fact 2: You can evaluate talent in practice and pre-season all you want but to paraphrase a military saying “when the bullets start flying” is the only time you really know what you have. I think you’ll see an upset win against the Giants this week.
by Ryan in Nixa on Oct 1, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
yes.
You mean to tell me you honestly believe Haley isn’t trying to win games…
Seconds half, down 3 td’s and he calls 20 running plays and 8 passing plays is not trying to win…mkay?
Don't Fuccop Succop
by chicks_love_chiefs on Oct 1, 2009 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions
You tell me what plays he could have called.
I’m sure he would have loved to call passing plays if his line had shown the smallest ability to pass block for more than 2 seconds. To be honest, we probably gave ourselves a better chance by running in the second half than if we would have dropped back and got sacked every play.
Then all the post here would be talking about how stupid Haley is for letting his 60mil dollar QB get killed in a blowout.
They couldn't run block either....
So your point is invalid. If they were getting 6 yards per carry…then maybe…they were getting stuffed all game. Yes the pass blocking was ugly, but…I’m mean no head coach in the NFL or anything, but maybe put Cassel in shot gun, before 3rd and 1, and try to spread the ball around. Anything but Larry up the middle.
Don't Fuccop Succop
by chicks_love_chiefs on Oct 1, 2009 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions
shotgun and 3 step drops
the problem under center has been the same for years. 5 and seven step drops let the defense see where teh QB is going to throw it. three step drop and fire. no time to react and gets the ball out of the QB’s hands.
If you are doing shotgun or 3 step drops
you are only going to be able to throw slant patterns and screens. Those are the exact patterns the defense was sitting on in the second half.
Sorry, that +1 was for CLC.
Stupid reply button
by Chiefsfan1970 on Oct 1, 2009 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Haley was doing what Gene Hackman did in Hoosiers.
Sorry to bring in a sports movie metaphor, but the scene in Hoosiers where Hackman plays a game and loses with 4 players is what Haley was doing: making a point to his team.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
Uh huh.
Go ahead and explain that one, please.
1) We didn’t play with 4 players (or 10, or even just 52). If he would’ve run the offense while sitting the guys who weren’t running it well, that would’ve been the same point Hackman was making in Hoosiers.
2) Running the ball play after play because the coach is throwing a hissy fit (which he admitted to doing in the 7-on-7 drill in a similar situation) isn’t proving anything to the team except that the coach is a whiny little bitch.
When they talk about the "53 right players" they are talking about players who don't get lost.
Unprofessional players will quit on a coach. One of the reasons guys like Mike Vrabel were brought in is because they won’t quit.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
I honestly believe that Haley gave up during the Philly game, yes.
You mean to tell me you honestly believe Haley isn’t trying to win games
Pull Cassel, roll him out, let him take his hits, come up with something that works! Don’t practice run blocking during a game.
meant as a reply to Ryan.
I pulled a reply fail.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Oct 1, 2009 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Quick slants out of the shotgun...
screen passes. (they tried one but it got swatted down and they didn’t try again for the whole game) short curl routes. Anything that can get the ball out quickly. Shotgun formation should have been the standard with that kind of pressure. there are many things you can do to a team that is bringing constant pressure to make them pay. If that weren’t the case, teams would do nothing but blitz all day. Here’s an idea, why not roll to either side to buy a little time so you can get the ball to the TE or something like that.
groundbreaking ideas, 1970!!!
It seems obvious to us… why do coaches beat their heads (and their teams’ heads) against the wall?
change it up, try something that may work
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
" I think you’ll see an upset win against the Giants this week."
Yeah, and blind chickens are going to fly out of my ass too.
"Pioli is throwing pasta at the wall to see if it sticks"
and maybe that’s what bothers me about Pioli – that’s not a “plan” in my book – I keep hearing about “The Plan, The Plan, Stick With The Plan” – what, more pasta? that’s a PLAN??? no, that’s “I have no idea what I’m doing but I’m going to keep tossing in different players and pray to the the football gods that maybe something positive will happen”
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
It's all part of the process.
Don't Fuccop Succop
by chicks_love_chiefs on Oct 1, 2009 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions
They are creating an atmosphere of competition. If a player fucks up they will be replaced.
I’m not sure that any of these roster moves are meant as serious upgrades so much as they are sending a message that players will do what is expected of them or they will not be on the team. And we already know that recent ex-Chiefs aren’t doing so well finding jobs.
They are trying to change a losing culture as fast as humanly possible.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
Awesome.
That would be great if we had a team entirely capable of perfection. We don’t. I don’t think there’s a team in the NFL that does.
And when you keep replacing the guys that screw up with guys that’ve been cut by other teams for screwing up or who are bottom-of-the-barrel third-stringers and practice squad players, you’re still not going to build a team of people who aren’t going to screw up because that’s what those level of players do and is precisely the reason why they’re not starting elsewhere.
If the standard is “If you f—- up, we’ll replace you” then they need to drop Cassel for that end-of-the-half clock management problem he had (and, arguably, fire Haley and Pioli for the way they’re running this team). This supposed atmosphere of competition that they’re trying to create breeds only contention and discontentment when they make it clear that the same rules don’t apply to everyone.
NO MORE UNDER CENTER
When will Haley realize that this line sucks and that when Cassel drops back, its because he’s on the run already??
Bowe and Wade FTW.
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
So baisically, do what we did last year.
Go to an offense / Pistol/spread/shotgun – that the team really doesn’t want to run in the future just for the purpose of getting a 1 or 2 extra wins this year. That way we would have a 5-11 record instead of a 2-14 record.
I asked this last week. Is it worth it for this coaching staff to change to an offensive scheme that isn’t what they want to do in the future, just for the purpose of a couple extra wins this year?
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