The Case For Willie Tuitama

by HIV 2 Elway on Jan 7, 2009 9:14 AM CST Comment 44 comments

Everybody wants a QB. I'm of the belief that its not the QB position that is holding this team back, rather its the O-line, D-line, and LB's. Well, and the lack of a competent head coach.

Still, we'll need to bring in one and probably two QB's next year either through the draft or free agency. Much of the talk will be centered around Bradford (meh) and Stafford (gag). I think the Chiefs need to look elswhere to address their QB needs, specifically, they need to look at Willie Tutiama.

Looking at the basics...

Bradford - 6'4" 218 lbs and a 2 year starter. In 2008 he tossed 48 TD’s to 6 INT’s and had a completion percentage of 68.3%.

Stafford - 6'3" 237 lbs and a 3 year starter. 22 TD’s to 9 INT’s with a completion percentage of 61.1% in 2008.

Tuitama - 6'3" 220 lbs and a 4 year starter. Finished 2008 with 23 TD’s to 8 INT’s with a completion percentage of 64.9%.

Equally important, is the fact that Willie has gone through a rebuilding process. When Tuitama took over the reigns, Arizona was outright horrible. Over his 4 years he helped the team mature into the Las Vegas Bowl winning powerhouse it currently is.

Most enticing, is the pick it would take to get him. He's easily a 5th or 6th rounder. Address our real needs on day one, get a proven QB on day two.

I'm all for giving Thiggy another year at this and would like to see that happen without the added pressure of having a high round pick waiting in the shadows. Tuitama has spent 4 years under center in the demanding Pac-10, he wouldn't cost us a high draft pick, he has a similar build to this years top prospects, and he has proven that he can help rebuild shitty teams. He's worth a long look come April.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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Tuitama

Admittedly don’t know much about him but on the surface I like his numbers….4 year starter, completion percentage. What’s holding him back?

by Joel Thorman on Jan 7, 2009 9:28 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

However

I’d be very hesitant to rest my hopes on a guy drafted in the 5th or 6th round.

by Joel Thorman on Jan 7, 2009 9:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

thats what Bill Bilichick said about Brady in 2000

really I looked it up here it is, “borrowing a line from Primetime over at AP, you know the Chiefs best source of information, as it relates to Tom Brady in the draft, I’d be very hesitant to rest my hopes on a guy drafted in the 5th or 6th round.” Said Bilechick, “I am going to select him anyway and Scott and I will look like geniuses in s few years!”

We need a future defensive leader, his name is James Laurinaitis and he can be selected in round 1 of the upcoming Draft.

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Jan 7, 2009 9:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He was a little late to blossom...

His first two seasons were rather lackluster, then again so was his team. He’s really come on in the last two years and has improved every year. He may not be a guy who can come in and start week 1, but you give Thiggy another year while Willie learns and he could grow into a serious QB. Low risk, high rewards.

Then again, I’m crazy biased as he led my boys to a LAS VEGAS BOWL championship.

Proud to be a part of the Conference of Champions and their complete bowl season domination.

by HIV 2 Elway on Jan 7, 2009 9:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

A four- year starter in the Pac-10 is impressively rare…

by ArrowDread on Jan 7, 2009 9:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sign him up

I agree, none of the “top” qbs are worth a damn. Tui can ball. Im bias towards the pac-10, but I would definately take him or Sanchez

by ArrowDread on Jan 7, 2009 9:39 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I Think Tuitama Would Be A Great 2nd Day Pick

And I agree with you in that I don’t really want the Chiefs to pick Stafford with the top draft choice. I like Bradford for that pick…that’s about it.

And yes, the QB position is not the thing holding us back the most. But when you get a chance to take a guy with Bradford’s potential you do it…those kind of QBs don’t come along very often, and when they do we’ve never been in a position to take one of them.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Jan 7, 2009 9:49 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Correction

We’ve rarely been in a position to take one of them…we had a shot at Brady same as everyone else.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Jan 7, 2009 9:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

We probably need 2 QBs

Why not the #3 overall and a late round guy like Tuitama?

by Joel Thorman on Jan 7, 2009 9:55 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

We need guys who can play right away

by ArrowDread on Jan 7, 2009 9:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Thigpen can play right away

Even possibly someone at the 3 spot.

by Joel Thorman on Jan 7, 2009 10:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

we can't wait on "Rudy"?

We need a future defensive leader, his name is James Laurinaitis and he can be selected in round 1 of the upcoming Draft.

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Jan 7, 2009 10:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

totally agree with the sentiment

why take a QB #3 overall when we have SO many holes elsewhere and our current QB gave us such an offensive spark last season

another example…
Graham Harrell – 6’3" 205lbs and a 3yr starter. In 2008, 45 TDs, 9 INTs, completion pct 70.6% (!)
(why wasn’t this guy invited to NYC again?)

I don’t know if we want to spend a 3rd rounder on a guy like this, but it’s an option.

by stag on Jan 7, 2009 10:01 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I dont

want to see the Chiefs spend the #3 overall pick on QB. To win in this league you need a dominating DEF, a time consuming ball control offense, and good special teams play. The OFF doesn’t need to be any better than mediocre. The QB just has to NOT make the big mistakes.
I’ve had my fill of the “Flying Circus” OFF juggernaught + the highschool DEF.
Save that number 3 pick to trade down or take the best DE/MLB/OLB or OL you can get. Thigpen can hand off the ball to J. Charles just as well as Bradford.
Besides — I would not be shocked to see Detroit or St. Louis take Bradford ahead of us anyway.

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Jan 7, 2009 10:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Disagree

To win in this league you need a dominating DEF, a time consuming ball control offense, and good special teams play.

Tell that to Indianapolis and New England, the class of the NFL.

by Joel Thorman on Jan 7, 2009 11:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And where are they in the playoffs now?

Hmmm…..

Indy’s defense stepped up big the year they won (not that the bears offense was that great, depending on which Grossman showed up). Pat’s have always had a decent balance on both sides of the ball… with the exception of last year.

I prefer balance to a team being one-sided. In the last decade the Chiefs have not put a complete team together on the field.

"In the NFL, coaching has to make a difference when the games are close. The talent level across the league from team to team is too similar. Great head coaches do their best work in the fourth quarter when the game is on the line. Instead, we’ve seen Herm blow timeouts, put the game in the hands of the league’s worst defense, and most recently, run Larry Johnson behind Wade Smith and Adrian Jones as if they were Tim Grunhard and Will Shields in their prime.
Dr. Frankenstein is gone, but his monster is still roaming the sideline at Arrowhead Stadium." -C.E. Wendler, Warpaint Illustrated

by IISaiNtII on Jan 7, 2009 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You also have to look

at who exactly the Colts and Pats were constantly playing against…

by IISaiNtII on Jan 7, 2009 12:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yep

right now (and for like the past decade) if you want to succeed in the AFC West, most of the time you need a good run defense

by PVChiefsfan on Jan 7, 2009 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You Always Need A Decent Run Defense

What you don’t necessarily need is a dominating defense…especially if it comes at the expense of developing a balanced attack.

I love defense as much as anyone, but when an opportunity comes to take a franchise QB prospect with Bradford’s credentials you take it. You’ll find those guys a hell of a lot less frequently than you’ll find a good defensive lineman.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Jan 7, 2009 12:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Is Bradford a Peyton Manning?

i.e. many people just kinda “knew” Manning would be a great QB in the pros…does anybody feel that way abour Bradford?

by PVChiefsfan on Jan 7, 2009 1:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I Do

I think he’s got that kind of potential. His production has certainly been comparable.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Jan 7, 2009 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I kinda do too

I meant, do any of the “experts” think that about Bradford?

by PVChiefsfan on Jan 7, 2009 1:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

They're Projecting Him As A Top Ten Pick

That’s about as good an endorsement as you’re going to find. We’ll know more after he officially declares and after the combines.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Jan 7, 2009 1:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't

I think we’re looking at the next Derek Anderson. That might be enough to win if matched with a dominating DEF, but it’s not worth a 1st round pick.

The Chiefs biggest need is that awful DEF front 7. You can have the best QB of all time, but when give opposing QB’s 25 seconds in the pocket to pick you apart they WILL match your point scoring; and when you let your opponent run for 200 yards a game at the same time— You will never be anything better than a 1 and done playoff team. - Evidence: Dick Vermeil and the Chiefs

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Jan 8, 2009 12:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Being in the Top ten by the scouts does not mean anything is guaranteed.

Ryan Leaf, Rick Mirer, and Heath Shuler were all deemed top ten picks and can’t miss prospects. They were suppose to be “Franchise QB’s,” and are no longer in the league.

Just look at Bradford’s face…..the guy looks like he just hit puberty. He’s too young for any franchise to build up so much hope on. Bradford should go back to Norman for at least one more year and spend his time on the next cheerleader to pork. The JR QB’s in this class are too risky to take so high. Take a more seasoned QB in round 2. Just like what San Diego did when they drafted Brees in round 2 and LT in round one.

Knowshon Moreno 1st round and Harrell in round 2.

Opinions are like A--holes, everyones got one.

by aPacificChief on Jan 7, 2009 10:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

But Bradford's Been Better In College Than All Of Them

Those guys you listed were “tools” players that scouts fell in love with for their physical attributes without checking much else. Leaf and Shuler, for example, were both picked because of their “big” arms but they hadn’t really demonstrated the skills to succeed at the pro level while in college…Leaf was an inaccurate passer in college as was Mirer, Shuler played in a limited passing attack at Tennessee. Bradford, on the other hand, plays in a passing offense and has been spectacular at it, so there’s reasonable expectation that he’ll work out.

QBs can be a crapshoot, but there simply aren’t a lot of holes to point at in Bradford’s game. He’s as good a prospect as has come out of college in a long time…comparable to Palmer or Peyton Manning or anyone else you could probably name. Doesn’t mean he’ll get to their level, or that he’ll even work out, but that’s the risk you run with any player at any position. But the payoff in Bradford’s case is worth the risk with this pick.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Jan 8, 2009 12:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm willing to eat the Crow

if I’m wrong. And I DO want to be proven wrong. I’m a Chiefs fan through and through, and want nothing but good things for them.
I just happen to believe that you build a team through DEF, and I don’t thing Bradford is going to be that good in the NFL. College football success does not often translate to NFL success. It’s a different game, with different rules, and a whole lot less quality players PER team. It’s much easier to look like a star when the DEF you play against has 1 maybe 2 players that will ever be NFL skill level than it is when all 11 of them are.

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Jan 8, 2009 12:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And You May Be Right

Any pick could bust…and many do. We just disagree about Bradford’s potential, but all of the points you raise are valid too.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Jan 8, 2009 9:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually the numbers are slightly different because of the scheme's that College's run today.

Ryan Leaf’s numbers are actually not that far off to Bradford’s, and Leaf also did not have the supporting cast in Washington St. that Bradford is enjoying at Oklahoma.

’96 52% 2811yds 21-12
’97 56% 3637yds 33-10

Bradford
’07 69% 3121yds 36-8
’08 68% 4080 yds 46-6

Could the numbers be a bit construed because of the offensive philosophy shift of the pasts run heavy offense, to today’s pass happy spread systems. No longer are the days of Nebraska’s wishbone option after having been replaced with the 1TE 3WR 1HB spread.

The similarities, in the two QB though are that both only started for two years for their respective programs. Hardly convincing that this youngster has the tools necessary to lead a professional football team against 1,643 of the best athletes in professional football.

The two QB’s you mentioned are both graduating seniors, both Manning brothers have completed their college eligibility. The same is also for Carson Palmer. The guys are a little bit more mature as compared to Bradford who is only a RS sophomore.

Nope too risky to gamble our future on some suspect prospects (Bradford or Stafford). I would like to take John Butlers route and take a RB with our 1st pick (Knowshon Moreno), trade LJ for whatever we can get for him and take Harrell with our 2nd pick. Scouts are also saying that the two junior QB’s are about even in the eyes of the scouts, and that Staffords remarkable arm strength could be the deciding factor on who goes number one overall.

Opinions are like A--holes, everyones got one.

by aPacificChief on Jan 8, 2009 3:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

and Couldn't the crazy numbers that Bradford put up the past two years be looked as a "Product of the System"

or a system QB. Kinda like the Run-N-Shoot of the early 90’s. Huge numbers, but numbers in college would be far more inflated from weaker defenders in college ranks.

Opinions are like A--holes, everyones got one.

by aPacificChief on Jan 8, 2009 6:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Every QB Is Part Of A System

So everyone carries risk. What interested me in Bradford was primarily his pass completion percentage. A 12-17 point variance in that is HUGE. And completion percentage is usually the only stat that translates to the NFL for QBs (well, along with “games played”)

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Jan 8, 2009 9:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

By 12-17 Point Variance

I mean the difference between what Bradford posted over two years compared to Leaf. And I don’t believe Oklahoma runs a spread offense so I don’t think the stats are overinflated (although I’m not sure and could be wrong).

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Jan 8, 2009 9:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This year they were about as much of a spread offense

as the Patriots were in 2007

i.e. a lot of 4 receiver sets, more than 50% of the snaps in shotgun, etc. not really a college “spread” like what TTech or some of the WAC teams runs…

I think in 2007 at OU Bradford ran a mostly conventional “pro style” offense, taking most of the snaps from under center.

by PVChiefsfan on Jan 8, 2009 9:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well

His numbers were pretty impressive in both…no real difference. Which makes me think that he’s a guy who can adapt to the pro game and pick up an NFL offense.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Jan 8, 2009 10:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yep

he seems pretty sharp.

And he’s part Cherokee, so the Lions are verboten from drafting him…he must be a Chief =)

by PVChiefsfan on Jan 8, 2009 12:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Haha...interesting point about him being part Indian.

That was pretty good, but I think Bradford should go back to school if he does really wants to ensure that he will succeed at the pro level.

Look at the QB’s who are enjoying some form of success in the NFL, most have had at least three years of experience playing in college, and graduated as seniors.
Both Manning brothers, Rivers, Ryan, Flacco, McNabb, Brees.

Bradford has all the tools to succeed just needs maturity to provide stability.

Opinions are like A--holes, everyones got one.

by aPacificChief on Jan 8, 2009 3:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If % of completion is the point of interest in QB evaluation.

Graham Harrell has a higher . The Texas Tech product is at 71, and why does the nation think that Bradford is the most accurate passer in the nation? That distinction is Colt McCoy’s, he’s passes have been completed 77%.

Opinions are like A--holes, everyones got one.

by aPacificChief on Jan 8, 2009 9:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No, he's not...

Did you see the game tonight?
Peyton Manning steps up to the line, reads a DEF, reacts to the positions, KNOWS where the open man will be, or audibles out of the play that isn’t going to work.

Bradford steps up to the line, stares blankly over to the sidelines while the COACHES read the DEF. If he’s given the go ahead signal they snap it. If not he stands there watching the coach and waiting for him to decide what play he should switch to against the current DEF. The new play is called in and then the ball is snapped.

Bradford is not ready for the NFL. He might be some day, but not today. He needs at least another year at teh college level. Until he can read a college DEF and be able to audible out of a bad play without the coach holding his hand I don’t want him. — When your own college football coach does not trust you enough to decide for youself if an audible is needed, or to read the DEF standing in front of you there must be a reason for that lack of trust.

If he’s gonna have to sit on the bench holding the clipboard for whoever drafts him he may as well spend that year in college continuing to learn.

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Jan 8, 2009 11:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

franchise qb

you need a franchise QB period. Your right in that you need a great d and an offense that can control the clock when needed. However, you can’t just plug in any qb and expect him not to make mistakes while keeping opposing defenses honest. They key is a qb that can make plays and limit mistakes.

by wjp1982 on Jan 7, 2009 11:07 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I give you

Kerry Collins plugged into a DEF monster.
I give you, Joe Flacco plugged into a DEF monster.
I give you Superbowl Champion Trent Dilfer and the Buc’s.
I give you Jeff Garcia THIS season. 9-3 til Kiffin announced he was leaving… DEF falls apart the next week..and the season is over. If the DEF had kept going and Garcia had left injured I believe they could have plugged in anyone they wanted.
I give you Jake Delomme and the Panthers.

I give you the remaining AFC playoff teams: Steelers, Ravens, Titans, Chargers - 3/4 are DEF powerhouses. The 4th have been a DEF monster for the last 5 weeks, and Blitzed Indy into submission while running the ball and going with play action. Only 2 passes to wide outs all game long.

The point is— a franchise QB is a nie thing to have. A talented QB makes life so much easier in the NFL. But an average QB is all you NEED to win. It’s exciting to see all the points scored and the big passes; BUT if you can run the ball, eat the clock, and make the big throw off play action (because no one can stop your run game) then you have have enough OFF to win it all in this league.

However, if you have the best OFF in all of football, the most talented QB, the most passing yards, the most TD’s BUT you can’t stop anyone because your DEF sucks…. you will lose. — As seen by Trent Green in KC, Drew Brees in NO, and countless others.

I’ll take the next Ray Lewis / Reed / Suggs combo 10 times out of 10 over the next Tom Brady / Moss / Addai. And I’ll take the best pass rusher impact player in the draft over the best QB too.

It’s a partly personal thing. I like to watch slugfests. I like sacks and huge hits. I like battered bruised players slugging it out on REAL GRASS outdoors, in a mud slide, in 10 degree weather. I’d rather kick 5 field goals and hold the opponent to 3 points and uttery PUNISH them all game long than to throw 8 touchdowns and trade long passes all day to win 56-49.

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Jan 8, 2009 12:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Dont need a stud qb

Im of the thought that with the money O-line, you can plug in any serviceable qb and rb and be productive. Which of the remaining qbs gives you a rise in your levis? Pill popper Kerry Coliins? Chiefs should draft another O-tackle at #3, pair him with Albert for the next decade, and put any half-way decent qb back there…

by ArrowDread on Jan 8, 2009 8:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm thinking that may happen

no doubt, at #3, we will draft whoever our new GM and staff think is the best football player on the board, regardless of position…it may be another O-tackle…it may be that D-Tackle from Boston College, it may be the safety Mays, it may be Laurinitis…

by PVChiefsfan on Jan 8, 2009 8:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

best 4th rounder

I’d be fine with our QBs next year being Pigpen, Gray and the best QB left when we pick in the 4th round.

Hopefully the best guy left then will be a smart, accurate passer who doesn’t turn the ball over.

by Offense of the 70s on Jan 7, 2009 12:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

You know what H2elway your boy Tuitama looks real good on paper.

He’s got the physical stature to play in the NFL 6-3 220 lbs.
He’s played for 4 years down in Arizona
He’s improved his play every year, peaking in his senior year.
His completion % went up and INT’s went down.

Nice pick up. None of the scouts even mentioned this guy as top 10 prospect. He very well could be the sleeper of the draft.

Only question that I have is his arm strength? Is it top notch, because that’s where it will most likely hang on for him to truly succeed in the NFL, and can he lead.

Opinions are like A--holes, everyones got one.

by aPacificChief on Jan 8, 2009 4:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs