Some Thigpen Variables

by Dustin SLO,CA on Jan 26, 2009 2:03 PM CST Comment 31 comments

I know it's been brought up before, but Thigpen DID come into the season just trying to make it as QB3. He had no chance at being the starting guy. Brody had this job handed to him and it was only his to lose. I feel that the we should only truly judge Thigpen's performance based on the games that he had an entire week (Plenty of time right?) to prepare as QB1 of the Kansas City Chiefs. Keep in mind that when we were asked what Thigpen needs to do to keep the job (week 8) until week 17, most of us just said, "DON'T TURN IT OVER!"

Tyler Thigpen as a Starter:

192 of 330 for 2,216 yards, 16 TD, 8 INT, 221.6 YPG (15th), COMP% 58.2 (27th) Record: 1-9 Injuries: 0

Brodie Croyle as Starter:

120 of 206 for 1,078 yards, 5 TD, 5 INT, 134.8 YPG, 58.3%, Record: 0-8 Injuries: 5?

Croyle was have been given an entire season to prove himself. I'm not saying (by any means) don't bring in some competition. But give him a chance and don't waste the #3 pick on a QB! Thigpen did a hell of a job turning Chicken Shit into...well... i guess a 99cent store chicken soup.

Peyton Manning first 10 games as Starter: (this is for you DJ :)

209 of 378 for 2,289 yards, 15 TD, 20 INT, 228.9 YPG, 55.3%, Rec: 2-8, Injuries: 0

'98 Colts Team points 1st 10 games: 166 pts

'08 Chiefs w/ Thigpen as Starter (10games): 216 pts

One thing that drives me crazy about ANY football analysts is that they ALL try to make predictions and they are never right. Yet, no one ever fesses up. They just do it again next time. Team records, player performances, Superbowl teams, playoff teams, whatever. No one can do it, but people make a lot of money trying year after year. Nobody knows what Thigpen is capable of but he has A LOT of potential. He deserves a shot, we just need a plan B (and C, and D).

Like Tony said, get us some help somewhere else.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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Very enlightening post, thank you!

Whoever said, 'It's not whether you win or lose that counts,' probably lost.

by Chiefs_swagger on Jan 26, 2009 2:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Problem is,

we can’t look at his stats from a spread offense. He needs to do well behind center, and I hope he does. The kid has a nice skill set, but never got the pre-season reps as a starter. I’d like to see how he does in a QB comp this off-season.

by GHOST OF DT on Jan 26, 2009 2:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

Given he was probably executive clip board holder for Huard all pre-season he probably didn’t receive any snaps under center and the arrowspread was in all honesty a patch job so nobody died, he did pretty well.

Now promote Thigpen to QB#1 during the off season let him take snaps all summer long under center then evaluate him fairly.

He deserves the chance to at least be #1 going into training camp and quite possibly the first game.

Blame my wife!

by sir eccles on Jan 26, 2009 3:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

why?

same game span:
Colts: 797 rushing yards, 7TD the entire season
Chiefs: 1163 rushing yards (Thigpen #3 rusher), 9TD the entire season

We actually had more of a rushing threat.

by Dustin SLO,CA on Jan 26, 2009 3:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

QB not our problem

Im with Tony G. QB is not our biggest concern right now. If the Chiefs get Thiggy some help (another tackle, reciever, a half decent defense) everyone will see, the dude can ball.

by ArrowDread on Jan 26, 2009 3:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Heck

yeah, give Thiggy a serious shot, and draft some help on the O-line.
One thing I feel the need to point out is that the difference between #10 rated QB and #27 is not that great (know I’m gonna get attacked for that one)
Cmp Attp % Yds TD Int

Cassell 327 of 516 63.4 3693 21 11
Ryan 265 of 434 61.1 3440 16 11
Flacco 257 of 428 60.0 2971 14 12
Thigpen 230 of 420 54.8 2608 18 12

On the negative side: completion % stands out, keep in mind a lot of those games we were either behind or had zero effective running game. When the D knows you’re throwing, completion % will suffer. Not to mention our receivers seem to have a wicked case of butter fingers.

On the positive: Thigpen wasn’t the starter till part way thru the season, these guys had the first team practices for the whole season except for Cassel. However, having an all world group of receivers to throw to doesn’t hurt.

All the other guys had legit defenses and legit running games.

Basically what I’m saying, why do we need to draft a QB when the one we have is putting up comparable #‘s on half a season’s work, with no Defense and no running game. He had more TD’s than the other rookies, if his % were higher, he would be ranked above them, no doubt.

Now the gray area, is the % him or his receivers or both. By the #’s, just 27 more completed passes and Thigpen is the # 11 QB in the NFL. Over a full NFL season thats basically 1.7 more completions per game.

All I’m saying is don’t get lost in the numbers, particularly in football where being a gamer is one of the key things. Thigpen is a gamer who wasn’t allowed to play for half the season, and didn’t have the supporting cast these other players did. I say he’s more than earned his shot to start the team.

Improvements: Must be able to play effectively under center effectively for long term success. If that can be coached into him, then great. One caveat, many NFL QB’s played a lot of games in the shotgun, Jim Kelly, Elway, Manning etc, so Thiggy with 50undercenter and 50 in the gun sounds just fine to me, but a guy who can’t play effectively under center will not succeed in the league.

So I say invest the draft picks elsewhere, give Thigpen all offseason and next year to give it a shot.

by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Jan 26, 2009 3:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

"if that can be coached"

ding

I’d rather we got a decent QB coach than draft a QB and watch him fail under the current coaching staff.

Blame my wife!

by sir eccles on Jan 26, 2009 3:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

agree 110%

by Dustin SLO,CA on Jan 26, 2009 3:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

One last

thought, seriously then I’ll stop, for a while….

Drafting a QB is high, IF he’s worth it. Gotta keep in mind just because someone is rated above the other guys doesn’t make him a great pick. If Stafford is better than the other QB’s in this draft it could just be a scenario where he is the tallest midget. The team that didn’t draft Michael Jordan blew it because they drafted the best big man in college at a position of need for them, instead of the best player available who was MJ that year.

The Chiefs used to be good at drafting talent and finding a way to use it, for years the only good part of our defense was or CB’s Albert Lewis, Kevin Ross and S Derron Cherry, but we drafted Dale Carter anyway. Granted he was a total thug, but for his first 5 years he shut guys out of games.

The best way to draft is to get the best player available that fits your system, I don’t see the top QB’s in this draft as being those guys. If the Chiefs scouts say differently, then I hope they are proven right.

by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Jan 26, 2009 3:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Im not willing

to rest all of the franchises hopes on Thiggy. We have to bring somebody in to compete and push him. If Thigpen can learn a more conventional offense and learn to play under center then by all means make him the starter. But he in no way deserves to have the keys to the offense just handed to him.

by paratrooper on Jan 26, 2009 3:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

But the other guys do?

Flacco & Ryan get the keys and look at YMB’s stats. And Cassel is being considered to take over and having people question Brady’s job security. If Brodie showed Thiggy’s moxy, we would all be fine with him taking over.

by Dustin SLO,CA on Jan 26, 2009 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

But Brodie didnt

and last season we handed the keys to Brodie and we all know how that turned out. I guess i have a sour taste in my mouth with QBs. I have nothing against Thiggy, i rather enjoyed watching him play last season. I just want an honest and open competition at the most important spot on the roster.

by paratrooper on Jan 26, 2009 4:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Also

Ryan, Flacco, and Cassel all were able to play under center the first season as starters. Thigpen couldnt.

by paratrooper on Jan 26, 2009 4:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Why does everyone say he couldn't?!

We don’t really know that. They changed the offense to fit his strengths like every nfl team does and or has. That’s what you do. We don’t know if he can or really can’t. So stop saying that he can’t or couldn’t because YOU don’t know.

by Dustin SLO,CA on Jan 26, 2009 5:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

They changed the offense to fit his strengths like every nfl team does and or has.

And his strength isn’t playing under center.

by Joel Thorman on Jan 26, 2009 7:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

or so you assume

by Dustin SLO,CA on Jan 26, 2009 7:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If he can

id like to see it? Maybe i should of used a different word than couldn’t. I should of said didnt’t instead. Now im not trying to knock him, i just want competition. You can never have too much talent at QB.

by paratrooper on Jan 26, 2009 8:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Or,

maybe they changed to the spread to hide the offense’s weakness – pass blocking. It certainly helped that we had a mobile QB back there to run away from the pass rushers every once in a while.

Don’t think for a minute that Thigpen was the only reason the offense changed. Also, don’t think for a minute that he got to run the Croyle/Huard offense in practices nearly as much as Croyle/Huard did.

by Seth_C on Jan 26, 2009 11:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hey

i’m not at all saying that he can’t do it, he just needs to prove to everybody he can. And untill that time, im going to be somewhat of a skeptic. I want him to succeed, that would make our rebuilding that much quicker. All i want is another prospect in there to compete and push the guy.

by paratrooper on Jan 26, 2009 11:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Right.

That’s the same thing I’ve said elsewhere. Thigpen deserves a shot at being the starter, but there definitely needs to be competition, whether that comes from free agency or the draft.

by Seth_C on Jan 27, 2009 9:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Another Common Knock on Thigpen

Is that he only zero’s in on Tony (or as I think of it, young Daniel-son relying on Mr. Miagi) but here’s a comparison amongst our namely young QB’s:

ATL-
1. R. White (9th nfl) 88 REC 2. M. Jenkins 50 3. Norwood 36

BAL-
1. D. Mason (16th) 80 2. M. Clayton 41 3. T. Heap 35

NE-
1. W. Welker (2nd) 111 2. R. Moss 69 3. K. Faulk 58

KC-
1. T. Gonzalez (4th) 96 2. D. Bowe (10th) 86 3. M. Bradley 30
2 Top 10 Receivers & 2 1000 yard Receivers

Again, the only exception seems to be Cassel (who I have gone on record to say I would not complain about pursuing him) with only 1 top 10 but 2 1000 yarders. And his number 4 receiver had 38 Receptions (J. Gaffney) which beats all of the above’s #3.

by Dustin SLO,CA on Jan 26, 2009 6:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

My problem with Thigpen

My only problem with Thigpen (other than him missing the deep throw consistently) is that when given the chance, he has not won the game for us. He has had multiple chances in the 4th quarter to drive us down to win, or at least pull in the lead, and hasnt done it.

I’m not ready to give up on him yet, but at the moment I’m leaning more towards i don’t think hes going to work out.

by cawksrawks on Jan 26, 2009 11:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

What about the SD game?

by paratrooper on Jan 26, 2009 11:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He got us close

but not close enough with a rookie kicker. I don’t think he had much time to work with if i remember right, but got us a long field goal. Not knocking him for that drive, but i really would of been excited coming into next year if he put together 1 solid game winning drive this season.

by cawksrawks on Jan 26, 2009 11:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

and if i remember

correctly during the first SD game he took us down in the last few minutes of the game and put us down by 1. Germ then went for 2 and we ended up losing that game. We very easily could have tied that game and took it into OT.

by paratrooper on Jan 26, 2009 11:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well i think

you have me feeling slightly better about him. And unlike most im willing to admit when im not right. (i dont think im wrong either though =P) Just remember particularly the miami game where we had a couple drives to win it. And completely flopped on them. Then the week before the heartbreaking SD loss where we were so close, but just needed a little more.

and oops on the double, forgot to reply =P

by cawksrawks on Jan 27, 2009 12:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Thigpen did as much as would be expected

Jets- We were up 21-17 w/ 1:03 left
TB- again defense could not make 1 stop, should not have punted and I think that was PHANTOM Offensive PI that would have ended the game.
SD1- Gets the TD, 100% agree with going for 2, Thigpen’s mobility was the only reason that throw got off and TG was held (blatantly) and that ball was definitely catchable.
Denver- Thigpen was a HALF YARD from tieing the game!
SD2- NO WAY they should have been able to score a TD, 2pt, Recover and score again We were up 21-10 w/ 1:13 left! He still gets us to a field goal and it was missed (and don’t say he should’ve gotten closer cuz he had plenty of leg for it.
MIA- 4th & 1 Thiggy slips

On nfl.com you can watch watch all the highlights. Go ahead, there are NO defensive highlights (besides flowers return) but It’s ALL Thigpen.

by Dustin SLO,CA on Jan 27, 2009 12:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

with going for 2 in that game, it was the right call. There were several games that we “should” have won. Thigpen played pretty good over all. He at the very least deserves a shot next season. I am hoping that he can be our guy. Just in case he can’t though, i would like to see us bring in a vet and a mid round prospect.

by paratrooper on Jan 27, 2009 12:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

agreed.

I have agreed w/ about 98% of anything you’ve said. Just each statement you always seem to say 1 thing I completely disagree with and that I’ll find completely unjustified. So that’s why I always seem to have a rebuttal for you, but I agree w/ you completely with the meat and potatoes of what you say.

by Dustin SLO,CA on Jan 27, 2009 12:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs