The Case For Thigpen

by cmpotter on Jan 2, 2009 11:56 AM CST

I didn't realize how close Bones is in his first season to other successful QBs. He just may end up being the man. I have been pretty critical of him down the stretch and sometimes I forget he was only in his second year. If he fits into the the offense we run next year, whatever it ends up being then he could be that young guy we have always wanted.

Thigpen is still being discriminated against for being a undrafted free agent if Brodie Croyle would have put up the same numbers as Thigpen the Chiefs would be screaming they have found their QB of the future.

2008 Tyler Thigpen (12 games) : Comp 230 Att 420 Passing Yards 2680 Cmp % 54.8 TD 18 INT 12 Rating 76

2006 Tony Romo ( 11 games): Comp 220 Att 337 Passing yards 2903 Cmp % 65.3 TD 19 INT 13 Rating 95.1

2008 Matt Ryan : Comp 265 Att 434 Passing yards 3440 Cmp% 61 TD 16 INT 11 Rating 87.7

1998 Peyton Manning : Comp 326 Att 575 Passing yards 3739 Cmp% 56.7 TD 26 INT 28 Rating 71.2

2002 Drew Brees : Comp 320 Att 526 Passing yards 3284 Cmp% 60.8 TD 17 INT 16 Rating 76.9

It sounds like Tony is his biggest fan, but we still have to bring someone in here. We have to cover our backs especially with the QB history in this organization. It all hinges on the new regime.

Case for Thigpen

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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The 54.8% completion percentage is what worries me most

I also don’t think we stay with the Spread like we have. I have a hard time seeing a scenario in which Herm stays as head coach and if he leaves, it is HIGHLY doubtful that the next head coach is going to stick with a gimmick offense, especially without Gailey to run it.

The question is can Thigpen play under center in a traditional NFL offense? We don’t really know, but his lack of accuracy is a big concern for me and I think eventually he’s going to get hurt scrambling.

by ChiefDJ on Jan 2, 2009 12:28 PM CST reply actions

Woops.... Sorry DJ

I didn’t see that you responded pretty much the same thing I did… (slaps own forehead) ::::stupid! idiot!:::::

We may be "playing to win the game", but it seems like we're coaching to lose.

'09, a new era begins.
For the land of the free and the home of the CHIEFS!

by R2J_24 on Jan 2, 2009 12:33 PM CST up reply actions

Yep

i think that is the only real question with Thiggy, is he accurate enough? We know he has all the other stuff, and he’s got a little extra with the speed and escapability.

"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week."

by bigbe on Jan 2, 2009 2:18 PM CST up reply actions

Under Center

I wonder if Peyton Manning will ever become a good QB as he RARELY ever goes under center. Will you guys get over this under center crap….

by Aejfan on Jan 2, 2009 6:26 PM CST up reply actions

Tyler Thigpen is NOT Peyton Manning

Not even any comparison between the two.

by ChiefDJ on Jan 2, 2009 6:28 PM CST up reply actions

or Dan Marino

Opinions are like A--holes, everyones got one.

by aPacificChief on Jan 2, 2009 6:30 PM CST up reply actions

Still makes a good point

by Dustin SLO,CA on Jan 2, 2009 6:32 PM CST up reply actions

But that doesn't matter

Because he is an outstanding QB.

Let Thigpen hit 60% before we anoint him.

by Joel Thorman on Jan 2, 2009 8:00 PM CST up reply actions

manning does it without allowing the defense to ignore the run

that is the beauty of a balnced attack

by WarChief on Jan 2, 2009 8:02 PM CST up reply actions

The Case Against Thigpen

Thigpen is still being discriminated against for being a undrafted free agent if Brodie Croyle would have put up the same numbers as Thigpen the Chiefs would be screaming they have found their QB of the future.

If Brodie was able to stay healthy and put up he same numbers that Tyler has been able to do… YES! I WOULD be saying that Brodie is our QB of the Future…. And I’ll tell you why….

Because Brodie was running an offensive scheme where he ACTUALLY played under center in a traditional NFL formation,

I like Tyler Thigpen. Trust me. I do. I think he’s got a lot of heartand he IS coming into his own. BUT until he can proove that he can play outside of the spread offense and get those same numbers (if not better), then I’ll talk about him being our Franchise QB… Until then, I don’t see him starting with a new GM, coach, and possibly (more than likely) coaching staff.

We may be "playing to win the game", but it seems like we're coaching to lose.

'09, a new era begins.
For the land of the free and the home of the CHIEFS!

by R2J_24 on Jan 2, 2009 12:32 PM CST reply actions

I think Thigpen could be used as trade bait

IF the new GM and coach don’t decide to stick with him that is.

There are always teams looking for a QB and this might be a case where Thigpens star will never be brighter. It might be worth it to trade him for a 3rd rounder to a team that is more willing to take a chance on him. Personally, I just think Stafford or Bradford have far more potential in the long run.

by ChiefDJ on Jan 2, 2009 1:15 PM CST up reply actions

I think we would be better served if we did retain Thigpen.

Tyler would have the whole off season to work under center, and learn to play in a conventional style of offense. While Stafford would have some time to to acclimate himself to the NFL, while also learning the offense.

I’m hoping that the spread will be a thing of the past, and the only reason we were forced to use it in the first place was that the shotgun was the rhythm Tyler felt most comfortable in. We were scrambling to find any form of success during the season, and now we can concentrate the offseason to go back to a traditional style of offense, and use the spread only in a 2 minute offense.

Opinions are like A--holes, everyones got one.

by aPacificChief on Jan 2, 2009 1:39 PM CST up reply actions

I agree with you on all those points

I am not the biggest fan, but I am a fan. Those are all valid points and we won’t know what happens until all the new hires are in place.

He wasn’t even a QB until he got to college, which shows how fast he can learn. The spread is easy for him because it is simple. Looking at his college stats he improved every season and his senior year he put up really good numbers. If he is given another season. Scratch that if he earns another season as starter we will see if he is the man or not. He isn’t expensive and he at the very least is a good backup. I has shown that he can learn and make plays. The question is. Can he run an NFL offense for 16 games and make the plays necessary to win games?

Like a stated above. We still have to cover our asses by either drafting or signing a QB.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Jan 2, 2009 1:31 PM CST up reply actions

traditional shawmishinall....I don't give a rats ass what offense we run as long as we score points. So lets focus on our SHITTY defense

"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week."

by bigbe on Jan 2, 2009 2:21 PM CST up reply actions

Thigpen is still being discriminated against for being a undrafted free agent

Thigpen wasn’t an UDFA. he was drafted in 7th round by the vikings.

by KS on Jan 2, 2009 12:53 PM CST reply actions

Am I wrong?

wasn’t Thigpen put into the spread to save him from the horrible line play? I don’t think we’ll ever know if he can play under center till we put an NFL quality line in front of him.

by REMWHEN on Jan 2, 2009 1:32 PM CST reply actions

That AND

We werent utilizing any sort of run game and Thigpen felt most comfortable in the shotgun. Oh… And Herm sucks and doesnt know how to coach. And Chan’s been using that scheme in college, even when he was at Pittsburgh with Kordell Stewart.

We may be "playing to win the game", but it seems like we're coaching to lose.

'09, a new era begins.
For the land of the free and the home of the CHIEFS!

by R2J_24 on Jan 2, 2009 1:44 PM CST up reply actions

I like him too but.............

I can honestly say that I cannot remember one single play to a deep receiver downfield that: A-Didn’t sail straight up into the sky. B-A receiver didn’t have to stop his route and come back for the ball.C- see a tight spiral on the deep ball. Am I the only one concerned about his accuracy and strength to go deep???

"You play to win the game"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by SFCBurkhart on Jan 2, 2009 1:47 PM CST reply actions

I think his lack of accuracy can be improved with better mechanics in his throwing motion.

Tyler does have some zip in his passes. That’s why he was kept over alot of other QB’s who flashed on our roster.

Opinions are like A--holes, everyones got one.

by aPacificChief on Jan 2, 2009 1:54 PM CST up reply actions

I remember a couple of deep throws he made on the run that were very good throws.

I think a lot of people are focusing on his throws from the last 2 games where the wind was howling and the ball fluttered on him then.

by Warden11 on Jan 2, 2009 4:48 PM CST up reply actions

thank you

by Dustin SLO,CA on Jan 2, 2009 6:06 PM CST up reply actions

I made the same post Twice! : )

And nobody gave a damn or paid any attention to it! : )

As far as his accuracy, that is definitely one thing that is learnable/trainable at the QB position. You CAN work on accuracy. Especially when you have all year to work on being the QB1 and not hoping to make a team as a 3.

Again, the only move I’d support is signing Cassel (or comparable) NOT Bradford or Stafford!

by Dustin SLO,CA on Jan 2, 2009 1:52 PM CST reply actions

Wouldn't the signing of Cassel be equivalent to another Grbac?

We should concentrate on developing our own QBOF.

Opinions are like A--holes, everyones got one.

by aPacificChief on Jan 2, 2009 1:58 PM CST up reply actions

+1

Totally agree. No time like the present to develop our own guy.

by TheQ on Jan 2, 2009 3:07 PM CST up reply actions

I'm not really old enough to remember that situation to well

I was in 7th or 8th grade, so I didn’t really pay much attention to anything but points back then. I just remember being PISSED when Grbac started over Gannon in the playoff game (i do remember I didn’t like Grbac even before that game)

What was that situation? But did Grbac EVER through for 400 yards in a game though? … I just looked it up and he did. He broke 400yards once, with 504 against Oakland in 2000 (which is actually his only season his whole career that was better than Cassel’s season this year.)

I’d rather have Thigpen too, don’t get me wrong! I’m just sayin’ that I’d understand why we would go after Cassel.

by Dustin SLO,CA on Jan 2, 2009 3:18 PM CST up reply actions

It also helps having Moss and Welker with a solid running option.

Don’t get so caught up with statistics, because a simple screen pass that turns out to 90 yard gain is also placed into the passing stats.

Opinions are like A--holes, everyones got one.

by aPacificChief on Jan 2, 2009 5:09 PM CST up reply actions

What solid run option do they have?

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Jan 2, 2009 5:20 PM CST up reply actions

Sammy Morris (727yds) or Kevin Faulk (507 yds)

Opinions are like A--holes, everyones got one.

by aPacificChief on Jan 2, 2009 5:23 PM CST up reply actions

Weak.

We may be "playing to win the game", but it seems like we're coaching to lose.

'09, a new era begins.
For the land of the free and the home of the CHIEFS!

by R2J_24 on Jan 2, 2009 5:34 PM CST up reply actions

Thats not really sold, bro..

That would only mean that Morris’ avg. 45 yards a game and Kevin Faulk makes 31 a game. That’s crap. Even WE can do better than that (when Herm didnt run away from the run)

We may be "playing to win the game", but it seems like we're coaching to lose.

'09, a new era begins.
For the land of the free and the home of the CHIEFS!

by R2J_24 on Jan 2, 2009 5:37 PM CST up reply actions

Do you mean LJ measly 874 yards rushing is better?

Their in the playoffs, and were debating who will be our number 1 choice come draft day.

They also lost their #1 RB due to injury, ours was suspended by his own team for conduct detrimental.

Opinions are like A--holes, everyones got one.

by aPacificChief on Jan 2, 2009 5:42 PM CST up reply actions

New England is also ranked 6th overall in rushing, while we are 16th.

That’s pretty solid to me don’t you think?

Opinions are like A--holes, everyones got one.

by aPacificChief on Jan 2, 2009 5:58 PM CST up reply actions

And what % of that was thanks to Thigpen?

by Dustin SLO,CA on Jan 2, 2009 6:16 PM CST up reply actions

Still 72 Yards per game

Double Faulk’s

And Charles has 5.33 yards per carry and LJ w/ 4.53 vs 4.66 for Sammy and 6.11 for Faulk

That’s 5.38 avg for Sammy and Faulk vs 4.93 for LJ and Jamaal

by Dustin SLO,CA on Jan 2, 2009 6:15 PM CST up reply actions

Again, don't get so caught up with stats

Because most of Charles runs was on 3rd and long from draw plays. When teams were playing pass first.

Look at the overall rushing. That’s a clearer way to gage a rushing threat. NE 6th overall in rushing, while KC was 16 th, who cares about the individual performances, because NE was able to run when they needed to.

Opinions are like A--holes, everyones got one.

by aPacificChief on Jan 2, 2009 6:24 PM CST up reply actions

Jamaal Charles on 3rd and 8+

5carries for 72 yards (20% of his yardage, 7% of his carries)

by Dustin SLO,CA on Jan 2, 2009 7:27 PM CST up reply actions

Again, not too impressed with your "analyses"

NE- 2278 total rushing yds, 142.4 per game
KC- 1810, 113.1
That’s a 450 total yard difference and 40 yard/game difference. Really not that huge of a difference, especially considering we ran the SPREAD.

by Dustin SLO,CA on Jan 3, 2009 5:27 PM CST up reply actions

Where's that coming from?

Are you comparing Grbac to Cassel? Or Thigpen to Cassel?

by Dustin SLO,CA on Jan 2, 2009 6:34 PM CST up reply actions

NE RB's Recieving

Sammy Morris- Longest Rec- 42yds, 20+ yd receptions= 2, 40+= 1
Kevin Faulk (NE’s Receiveng RB) – Longest= 22yds, 20+ = 1, 40+= 0

by Dustin SLO,CA on Jan 2, 2009 7:05 PM CST up reply actions

Also

he’ll get more accurate when he can plant his feet, not throwing on the run.

by REMWHEN on Jan 2, 2009 1:59 PM CST reply actions

i hope

but some people just seem to throw a better tighter ball on the move

by WarChief on Jan 2, 2009 8:05 PM CST up reply actions

I totally think we should keep Thigpen

because at worse, he is a decent #2 guy, and I don’t think we know what his ceiling is. But none of that changes the fact that we need some Quarterback depth, and it will probably have to come through the draft. I personally don’t think we can rely on Thigpen to be the guy, but it doesn’t matter what I think, it matters what the new Regime thinks.

by TheQ on Jan 2, 2009 3:11 PM CST reply actions

agreed

At this point we have Thigpen, Gray, Croyle and Huard… we will undoubtedly drop Huard this offseason, and Croyle may fall in that same bucket. Even if he doesn’t, it would behoove us to pick up some additional arms in the offseason.

I don’t want to ditch Thigpen, and I am curious about how he develops this offseason.

by Ochophosphate on Jan 2, 2009 9:08 PM CST up reply actions

I think the completion pct is misleading because

Bones didn’t have a whole lot of time in the pocket as we all know that our OL also struggling at the first half of the season. Remember the Atlanta game? And thereafter, we switch the traditional offense to spread, and that also makes him do throwing more. For only have of the season, the offense played the spread formation. IMO, it is very short of the time for QB, OL, RBs, WRs to learn & adjust the new system in the NFL..(except TE cuz we have a hall of famer :D) How many times the WRs running different route the they supposed to run? How many passes are a dropped passes? How many times Thigpen should scrambled because to the poor OLs? That are the reasons why the compl. % is low for him…

by ali_djoo on Jan 4, 2009 10:27 AM CST reply actions