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Chiefs: About that Head Coaching Job

Now that the Kansas City Chiefs have filled their General Manager position with Patriots Vice President of Player Personnel, Scott Pioli, we here at Arrowhead Pride have shifted our focus to the team's remaining off-season issues.  This past week we’ve hotly debated questions that include how the team should use the 3rd overall pick in the 2009 draft,  what free agent acquisitions should be targeted with $45 million in salary-cap room and  what the fates of veteran stars Larry Johnson and Tony Gonzales will be?

My favorite debate rages over KC’s coaching situation;  Should Herm Edwards be retained for the remaining year of his contract to attempt to capitalize on his roster rebuilding efforts in 2008? Or should he be terminated and replaced by one of several hot prospects?

I’ll lay it out there as I understand it, and if I’m off a tick… I’m sure you won’t hesitate to tell me how or why.  Of course if I missed anything, throw it out there. Let’s break it down.

 

Star-divide

Here are the prospects:

Herm Edwards – Chiefs incumbent head coach.  He has a year left on his contract but could be let go by Pioli.  Many here at AP argue in favor or Herm to finish out his remaining year.  Team owner Clark Hunt has made several public statements in Herm’s favor.  Many here at AP argue in favor of firing Herm and starting Pioli’s reign with a clean slate citing insufferable records and statistics as cause.  An exodus began this week, primarily on the defensive side of the Edward’s coaching staff.

Rex Ryan – Defensive Coordinator for the Baltimore Ravens.  Those guys are playing out of their minds under Ryan’s leadership.  They’re still in the playoff hunt this weekend, largely due to fierce play of Ryan’s unit. The latest rumors have him headed to the New York Jets to be its head coach in 2009.

Steve Spagnuolo – Defensive Coordinator for the current World Champion New York Giants.  Has interviewed with other teams and reportedly did not present well. Spagnuolo runs a base 4-3 system that would be a relatively nice fit for the defensive personnel that KC already has.  It is speculated that the Giants view him as their heir apparent coach-in-waiting.

Kirk Ferentz – Head coach of the University of Iowa Hawkeyes.  He’s led the school to six consecutive bowl games from 2001 to 2006 and was named 2004 Big10 Coach of the Year.  He is widely speculated to be considered one of Pioli’s top candidates.  The two are known to be good friends.

Marty Schottenheimer – Former Browns, Chiefs, Redskins and Chargers head coach.  Whew that’s a long run!  Marty knows how to coach and he knows how to build a team.  It’s been speculated that he would rather take a job in the front office rather than on the side lines.  He publicly stated that he would not be taking a job with the Chiefs prior to Pioli accepting the GM job, but I included him because his name continues to surface throughout these debates.

Mike Shanahan – Head coach of the Denver Broncos – Terminated.  Shanahan comes off a long and successful tenure in Denver and has two Super Bowl wins to prove it.  He’s widely regarded as one of the best candidates available.  Questions about Shanahan include: Will he want too much power in terms of personnel decisions to be a good fit in Kansas City?  Does he have enough of a collaborative personality to develop long-term chemistry with Pioli and the rest of the organization?

John Gruden – Head coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers – Terminated.  Gruden comes off back-to-back tours as head coach of the Oakland Raiders and the Bucaneers respectively.  He lost a Suber Bowl with the Raiders and won one for Tampa Bay.  Questions about Gruden include: How much control over personnel decisions will he want. Is he open minded and collaborative enough to work well with Pioli and Co. for the long-term?

Bill Cowher – Long-time head coach of the Pittsburg Steelers - Retired.  Cowher coached the Steelers from 1992 to 2007 and won the 2006 Super Bowl.  He is currently working as an NFL studio analyst for CBS.  He is widely reported to have no interest in coaching until 2010.

Mike Holmgren – Head coach of the Seattle Seahawks – Retired.  Holmgren comes off back-to-back coaching efforts for the Greenbay Packers and the Seahawks respectively.  He won a Super Bowl with the Packers and lost one with Seattle.  Holmgren hasn’t been given much lip service in terms of the Chiefs job, but his credentials and circumstances make him a worthwhile candidate for consideration.


Considering the grueling lifestyle of an NFL coach, Cowher has publicly made it clear that he’s not ready to come back yet.  Marty’s itch has shown subtle signs of a resurgence, but he’s done nothing whole-hearted as of yet.  It is speculated that Gruden, Holmgren and Shanahan are all considering some time away from the game after extensive runs at the coaching helm, but could just as easily coach again in 2009 if the right opportunity were to present itself.

So what’s it gonna be AP?

A.  Do we honor Herm’s contract?  If we do we risk running an entire year with a lame-duck coach.  If he succeeds, how to you turn him lose at the end of that year?  If the Chiefs do this they better make damn good and sure that they're willing to keep him beyond a successful year!  My hunch is that this is what Tony G. grumbling about.  This path could however, be the way to land Cowher or even Gruden, Holmgren or Shanahan if they decide to step away for a year.

B. Do we blow out the coaching staff and go with an up and coming coordinator?  This is a commitment to building the team in a similar vein to the Atlanta Falcons and the Miami Dolphins.  Are the available options worth the risk?

C. Do we take a chance on a coach from the college ranks? Ferentz could be our man.  Should he be?

D. Do we go with a coaching  retread?  These guys all know how to get it done.  Cowher, Gruden, Holmgren, Shanahan and Schottenheimer are proven winners.  Cowher and Schottenheimer are basicly out as options this year but may be open to something in 2010.  If any of them throw their hats in the ring, you have to wonder if they can avoid burnout.  They’ve all been in the grind for a long time.

E. None of the above.

F. A combination of some or all of the above.

 

Poll
Which is it?
A - Do we honor Herm’s contract?
75 votes
B - Do we blow out the coaching staff and go with an up and coming coordinator?
117 votes
C - Do we take a chance on a coach from the college ranks?
8 votes
D - Do we go with a coaching retread?
54 votes
E - None of the above
5 votes
F - A combination of some or all of the above
56 votes

315 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

Comment 55 comments  |  9 recs  | 

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Hmmmm

I dont know. I really think Herm is a waste of time. He tore down to much, to fast. It just seems like he cant put humpty back together again. I think Holmgren wants out for awhile. As we all know, Marty tends to tangle with every GM he comes across, but sure seems to be able to turn a team around quick like. Cowher doesnt seem like his heart is in it yet, and who knows if it will be by 2010. Maybe, but maybe not. What then? You know Chuckys ego, and Piolis work together attitude probably WONT work together very well. Steve Spagnuolo, doesnt he have only like three years as the DC at New York? The question about him is can he build a team. Rex seems ok, but if he wants to coach, can we steal him away from the Jets. I dont know about Kirk, and Shanahan. What do they want to do? They both both seem like good fits, but the ball i supose would be in there court. I really dont know. Ido know this. This is why we went after Pioli, and im sure when he pulls the trigger, most of us will fall in love with his choices

Toby J. Neal

by chiefs24 on Jan 17, 2009 4:08 AM CST reply actions  

Great read Great post Thanks!

We need a future defensive leader, his name is James Laurinaitis and he can be selected in round 1 of the upcoming Draft.

Ok already, if you don't agree with what I am saying, just don't email my mom again. She beat the crap out of me with my keyboard!

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Jan 17, 2009 9:07 AM CST reply actions  

Nice, you obviously put some time in it.

I wants some news on this! Waiting on a GM, in the back of my mind I knew it was Pioli. I figured with a new GM, Herm would be gone already, now i am starting to second guess those thoughts.

Welcome to KC Scott Pioli, home of the most rabid football fans in the NFL!

by Eric Allen on Jan 17, 2009 9:27 AM CST reply actions  

Lame Duck Coach
If we do we risk running an entire year with a lame-duck coach.

I just don’t see it ever getting to that point. Clark understands the ramifications of a move like that. I just don’t see him letting Herm enter ‘09 with just 1 year left. 2 year extension or he’s cut are the only options IMO.

As far as replacements go, Shanahan would be numero uno in my mind. There are some rumors coming out of a Denver radio station that Pioli and Shanahan have talked a little bit. Again, complete rumor. But man, Shanahan would give the Chiefs the best front office off-season ever.

by Joel Thorman on Jan 17, 2009 9:37 AM CST reply actions  

Especially

Since he’ll have to replace several of his assistants and probably his defensive coordinator. Most good replacements aren’t going to want to come work for a lame duck coach in his final year when they could get fired right afterwards.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Jan 17, 2009 9:38 AM CST up reply actions  

AND

If Pioli goes out and gets a quality Defensive Coordinator and position coaches somewhere for 2009 AND THEN hires a Cowher in 2010, you KNOW Cowher is at the very least going to want to pick his own coaching staff.

There is too much turnover in the coaching staff and that’s going to hurt these young players. If they get rid of Gailey, you’re talking about Bowe and older offensive players learning their 3rd offensive scheme under their 3rd coordinator in the last three years. Nothing stuns a young players development like not letting him learn the scheme enough to just go out and play instead of having to think about what he’s doing all the time.

They need to get this coaching staff and its primary players locked down and be confident enough in their decision to stick with them for a few years.

IF (and I still don’t think it happens) they decide to keep Herm and Pioli goes out and finds coordinators and coaches for him, they need to stick with Herm and those coaches for a few years for continuity sake. If they aren’t confident enough in Herm to do that, they need to just start over with the coaching staff altogether and be willing to stick with them for a few years in a row.

by ChiefDJ on Jan 17, 2009 10:30 AM CST up reply actions  

Good point dj which is why

I really believe who ever coaches this next year will be coaching for the long term for us until they screw it up..If we keep Herm, I expect Herm to be around for the forseeable future (granted we win 7 games..Which I honestly expect with a rookie class that has more experience, some free agent acquisitions, and this incoming draft)

Regardless, if they keep hermie around, expect him to be around for a long time..They won’t just dump him after going close to .500 next year which would be a significant improvement

by CALIFAN1986 on Jan 17, 2009 1:33 PM CST up reply actions  

agreed. I think considering Herm is a slippery slope

If we keep this guy, we better know what we’re doing because it’s bound to go way longer than next year.

by Buck'O on Jan 17, 2009 1:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Great Post

My preferred choice would be firing Herm and selecting either Shanahan, Ryan or Spagnuolo (pretty much in that order). I think Herm’s run out his string here and none of the head coaches who had a record like he’s had with the Chiefs has ever gone on to win anything unless they were running an expansion franchise. Better to cut the strings now instead of wasting another year watching Herm prove he’s got no business running a team.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Jan 17, 2009 9:37 AM CST reply actions  

By The Way

You’d be better served putting your options at the bottom in the form of a poll and attaching it to your post. The FanPost editor lets you do that.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Jan 17, 2009 9:41 AM CST up reply actions  

I thought about that

but wasn’t sure if it would be as conducive to discussion. Good point though.

by Buck'O on Jan 17, 2009 9:49 AM CST up reply actions  

It's Been My Experience

That people are just as interested in discussing if you have a poll as not…it actually increases the discussion sometimes because people want to talk about what the poll results mean.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Jan 17, 2009 10:00 AM CST up reply actions  

and I'll get the beer!

We need a future defensive leader, his name is James Laurinaitis and he can be selected in round 1 of the upcoming Draft.

Ok already, if you don't agree with what I am saying, just don't email my mom again. She beat the crap out of me with my keyboard!

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Jan 17, 2009 10:42 AM CST up reply actions  

Pioli

seems to be the kind of guy that is thinking long term. He wants to build a program, not a team. Strangely enough, that matches up with what Herman Edwards reportedly was trying to do with the blow up rebuild. Both men have stated that building a team to be competative for a long time was their goal; and both men have talked about building through the draft as being the only way to stay consistent. Pioli, however, explained that you could not ignore the other avenues the NFL makes available for player accuisitions (FA, Udrafted players, trades), but he still believes in building through the draft.

I am not arguing in favor of Herm Edwards returning. I’m merely pointing out that Pioli is unlikely to shake things up merely for the purpose of shaking them up. Pioli wants to build a long term winner in KC. This is not going to be an all out sprint twords building a winner in 2009. His focus will not be winning in 2009 at all costs, so I would not expect (nor would I want) him to run out and blow his wad (in terms of the salary cap) on FA signings. I also would not expect him to blow his wad (in terms of draft picks) trying to trade up for higher round picks. As the tortise and the hare have taught Pioli has learned; slow and steady wins the race.

The questions become; Do any of the canditates for the HC position currently availabe mirror Scott Pioli’s philosophy for the organization? Does Herm Edwards own philosophy more closely resemble that of Scott Pioli than any of the other candidates? Does the hiring of Pioli alone create enough buzz around the Chiefs to sell tickets, even if Herm is retained?

I believe that in Scott and Clarks opnions those are really the only questions that matter. And with those questions in mind I would not be shocked to see Herman Edwards return as the head coach in 2009.

Changing topic from what I believe, to what I want: Spag’s would be my #1 vote for HC.
4-3 defense that doesn’t require us to dump a lot of the young talent we have aquired.
Blitzing, attacking, shifting, and unpredictable style of defense that gets pressure on the QB from several positions on the field.

Gailey retained OR Hugh Jackson brought in as OC.

Fired: QB coach, OL coach, DL coach, LB coach, WR coach.

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Jan 17, 2009 9:38 AM CST reply actions  

Firing Herm Isn't Shaking Things Up For The Sake Of Shaking Them Up

It’s shaking things up for the sake of getting rid of a head coach who’s won less than a third of his games here and who’s gone backwards every year he’s in charge.

It’s not about change for the sake of change, it’s about change because you’re holding people accountable.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Jan 17, 2009 9:40 AM CST up reply actions  

It's not about the record

It’s about the overall philosophy.
Like I said, I’m NOT IN FAVOR ok keeping Herman Edwards, and arguing the points of why would should is not in my thought process.
We have quite enough “why we should, or why we shouldn’t fire Herm” posts where we debate the topic. Look over there -———————————————————————>>>>>

My statement was that Pioli was going to bring in a HC that he believes matches his mindset for the philosophy of building a winning organization over the long haul. NOT bringing in a guy that he thinks can win this year at all costs. I believe that in Pioli’s mind the GM job is a marathon, not a sprint. The decisions he makes will reflect a long term solution and the record of the team for 2009 is not at the forefront of his mind. Fixing an organization from the ground up (that Carl Peterson has manage to break on every level conceivable) is priority one for Pioli.

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Jan 17, 2009 9:47 AM CST up reply actions  

with that in mind

If Pioli does NOT believe that any of the other candidates available for HC match his overall philosophy BETTER than Herm Edwards, I wouldn’t be shocked to see Herm return until such time that Pioli thinks that he has found his match.

That’s what I think.

But again, what I want: is Spags (long term, although I know nothing about his philosophy) or Gailey (short term is we’re waiting around for 2010) to take over as HC.

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Jan 17, 2009 9:50 AM CST up reply actions  

I Like Gailey

But the Chiefs can’t promote him this offseason without firing Herm and doing an interview process. Unless the team specifically designated him Herm’s successor before Herm gets fired, the hiring process would still have to adhere to the Rooney rule, so at least one outside candidate would have to get interviewed.

Plus, I don’t know that Gailey would be interested in being the head coach for just one season, and it would still cause us the same problems having Gailey as a lame duck as Herm as a lame duck (although Gailey’s a better coach IMO).

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Jan 17, 2009 10:03 AM CST up reply actions  

So you want spags long term despite how you admit you know nothing

of his coaching philosophy..He has been a coordinator for two years so he doesn’t have a whole lot of experience..Oh and all of his interviews haven’t gone to well..

Excuse me while I scratch him off the list of potential candidates…No Thank You

by CALIFAN1986 on Jan 17, 2009 1:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Hmmm... good point

I like Spags from an intrigue standpoint, but when you put it like that, it gives one pause for thaught.

by Buck'O on Jan 17, 2009 1:35 PM CST up reply actions  

I want him long term

because I’ve seen with my own eyes what he can do with a defense. I don’t know anything about his TEAM BUILDING philosophy. That’s not the same thing as his coaching style, or coaching results.

I’m a defense fan. I don’t give a hoot about scoring 1000 points or having the best passing game in the NFL. I don’t care for yardage in huge chunks and awe inspiring passes that thread the needle. I yawn and turn the channel to another game when I see a scoreboard that says 45-36. It bores me.

TO excite me show me a game where the score is 7-3 at halftime. Show me a game where there have been a combined 10 sacks, 4 picks, 3 forced fumbles, 25 QB pressures, and BIG, NASTY, BONE-SHAKING hits from the opening kickoff all the way through the game. Give me a game played outdoors, in a monsoon, in 3 inches of mud or snow. Let me watch a contest where each team is trying desperately to run it between the tackles and RB’s are being knocked off defensive walls like a surfer being thrown back to the sand by a MONSTER wave. Give me a game that comes down to the final seconds where every single play counts. Give me a team down 5 points with a 4th and goal and 6 seconds on the clock trying to smach it into the endzone for the win.

Spags can build that kind of defense, and that’s what excites me about him. Too bad he’s off the table for the Chiefs now. I would have really liked to have seen him in KC.

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Jan 17, 2009 11:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Damn I'd be bored with that type of game and most other people would too.

The thing about football is that high scoring and exciting offenses will always draw crowds depsite the record..If your offense sucks and you still have a hard time scoring points then people will just refuse to show up..

by CALIFAN1986 on Jan 18, 2009 4:00 AM CST up reply actions  

disagree

Steelers, Ravens, Eagles, Giants etc dont have any trouble drawing a crowd. They are built on defense not massive offensive production.

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Jan 19, 2009 3:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Understood On Your Position

But with head coaches, it’s always about the record. That’s the prime metric that they’re graded on because that’s the reason they’re brought in.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Jan 17, 2009 10:01 AM CST up reply actions  

Let me ask you this

Do you think any coach could of had the Chiefs in the playoffs these last two years? I just don’t see how. Two years ago King Carl’s patchwork aging team would not of won many games with any coach, not if Carl was still the one putting the team together. So then Herm blew up Carl’s team. You may not like him, he may not be a good strategist, but Herm dealt the first blow to King Carl’s empire. It’s my belief that Clark signed on for this with the understanding that we would be bad. Going with all young players saved money that they needed to put into the stadium upgrades and left us in great cap space to attract a new GM. Now maybe a better coach could of got us 2-3 more wins last year. But I just can’t get on board with the thinking that Herm is the reason we have been bad these past two seasons. I agree with Texas Chief, if Pioli finds a guy that he thinks is “the man”, great. If not, and he wants to keep Herm, I think it’s unfair to assume that we will suck again next year.

Ten sacks in a season! For crying out loud that's what I used to average per game using DT in Techmo Bowl!

by KCporkchop on Jan 17, 2009 10:20 AM CST up reply actions  

How is it unfair

to assume that we will suck again under Herms leadership (or lack thereof)? Hes sucked the whole time he has been here. Why should we give Herm the benefit of the doubt that somehow he will unsuck himself by next season?

by paratrooper on Jan 17, 2009 11:01 AM CST up reply actions  

Don't Care What The Excuses Were

He screwed up enough in games to convince me he’s not a capable game manager. And he installed Brodie Croyle this season as the starter despite his lackluster performances, his injury history and the fact that his backup was a better QB.

So he had a bad team. Boo fucking hoo. He got the least possible return out of the talent he was given (and he did have some talent on these teams) and he lost more than 2/3 of his games over a three year span. I have absolutely zero interest in giving him another chance to go 4-12 or (more likely) 2-14.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Jan 17, 2009 12:15 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

By The Way
Going with all young players saved money that they needed to put into the stadium upgrades and left us in great cap space to attract a new GM.

You know what? That’s got to be the dumbest possible defense of Peterson and Herm’s reign that I’ve seen. “Their incompetence got us Scott Pioli”. Wrong…their incompetence got them fired and gave us a really crappy team to watch for the last two years. That’s all. Clark Hunt got us Scott Pioli.

Also, those stadium upgrades were largely funded by the taxpayers so screw the Chiefs saving money. I’m not going to say they were smart just because they were cheap. Because I don’t care what Clark Hunt’s bottom line looks like…he’s not giving me any of that money and if he’s not using it to field a better football team then I’m certainly not getting any enjoyment out of him being better off financially.

Now maybe a better coach could of got us 2-3 more wins last year.

So in other words you’re admitting that Herm didn’t get the most he could out of his roster. Which is why I want him gone…because there are better coaches out there who could get a good return out of his roster. Those are the kind of coaches who win Super Bowls. Why would anyone want to settle for a coach who’s proven he’s not good when there are other options available?

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Jan 17, 2009 12:22 PM CST up reply actions  

+1

 and if they think they are saving money by putting a poor product on the field… Just look at the stands at the end of the year! Looked like a lot of lost revinues to me and I’m sure that doesnt sit well with Clark Hunt. Clark knows he has a great fan base but he also knows the best way to energize this fan base is by getting rid of the coach that said fan base hates

by paratrooper on Jan 17, 2009 12:39 PM CST up reply actions  

For what it's worth

I think Peterson was one of the worst GMs in football the last few years. I have no interest in making excuses for him. I think Clark was set on running him out from the day he took over the team. I also am not one of those people that think Herm is doing a great job. He is not a good strategist, period. I do think there are better coaches out there. My main points were 1 – even the best coach in the NFL could only do so much with the crappy team our former GM assembled. 2 – I don’t think making a huge splash in FA was a possibility last year regardless of Herm’s “I want young guys” philosophy. 3 – If Pioli finds a guy that he thinks is “the man” then great, hire him, if not, it doesn’t make sense to me to fire Herm and bring in someone who probably isn’t the long term solution just to satisfy those of you standing outside Arrowhead with a torch and pitchfork frothing at the mouth because you hate Herm so much.

Ten sacks in a season! For crying out loud that's what I used to average per game using DT in Techmo Bowl!

by KCporkchop on Jan 17, 2009 9:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Disagree on your last point,

Hunt bought some “goodwill” by running Peterson out of here, keeping Herm would blow all of that.

by Warden11 on Jan 17, 2009 11:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Fair Enough

Sorry for how harshly that came off.

As for Herm, I don’t want him out because I hate him personally…I want him out because no matter what he’s given in terms of talent he usually gets the lowest return out of it for all of the reasons you and I mentioned (bad strategist, bad game management). I was pro-Herm for his first two years here, I turned on him this year after he decided to go with Brodie Croyle as QB without having a backup plan in place despite Croyle’s extensive injury history and general ineffectiveness on the field. That’s the point at which I knew the man didn’t have a clue how to run a team.

If Pioli finds a guy that he thinks is "the man" then great, hire him, if not, it doesn’t make sense to me to fire Herm and bring in someone who probably isn’t the long term solution just to satisfy those of you standing outside Arrowhead with a torch and pitchfork frothing at the mouth because you hate Herm so much.

That would be a valid point if Herm’s record here weren’t so horribly atrocious. A winning percentage of .313 over three years isn’t just terrible. It’s catastrophically bad. Martin Manley over at the KC Star actually did a piece where he looked up every head coach who’d had a similar winning percentage in their first three years with a team (excluding expansion teams) and discovered that not one of those coaches had ever accomplished anything with that team in the future. Those who weren’t fired after their third season usually went on to perform even worse and got canned shortly afterwards. Except for Bart Starr, who the Packers didn’t have the guts to fire, which resulted in a losing record for the next five years.

Call me crazy, but I’m not interested in watching the Chiefs piss away another season. We’ve had two years of that already and it’s been painful to watch. And while I’m willing to grant Pioli a bit of a honeymoon period for his first three or four years, I’m definitely going to blast his decision if he chooses to keep Herm next year. It will basically be him throwing 2009 away.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Jan 19, 2009 10:52 AM CST up reply actions  

I think that this is Herm's fatal flaw

You point of unfairness is understood, but IMO it’s not acceptable. This is yet another example of how he doesn’t look before he leaps. He just dives right in and does is best to deflect the criticism. Had he vetted his course of action prior to last year and asked himself a couple of questions: If I blow out the roster and go all in on a youth-movement, what are the chances that our team is going to stink? If we stink real bad, how could that impact my job?

This is what frustrates me about Herm the most. He never seems to do this heading into a situation. He just seems to go with the flow. Now obviously some things show promise or altogether work out, so that seems to allow him to stay in the hunt (no pun intended!) I like it from the perspective that the guy has balls, but at the same time, he comes off as aimless or la-dee-da and I want to strangle him. He does just enough to keep a contingency of supporters who can’t help but look at him and say “well hell. What would he do if we gave him some more rope?”

by Buck'O on Jan 17, 2009 1:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Spagnuolo

just got a four year deal with Rams.

Welcome to KC Scott Pioli, home of the most rabid football fans in the NFL!

by Eric Allen on Jan 17, 2009 1:47 PM CST reply actions  

Daaaaaaamn!

Are our guys even getting interviews yet? Or is this more of the cloak-and-dagger approach and we just didn’t get him?

by Buck'O on Jan 17, 2009 4:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Rex Ryan All the Way!

Then sign Suggs and Bart Scott and trade our 2nd and 4th round picks for Haloti Ngata. And with that we welcome the 3-4 defense.

Go to Wide World of Roto for all your fantasy news!

by JasonM on Jan 17, 2009 3:36 PM CST reply actions  

Herm must go

The team needs to find someone who has been a good coach (Shanny, Gruden) or has the potential to be one. Herm will never be more than “OK”. I want better than “OK”. I want them to try and build a great team not a decent one.

by FrankPitts on Jan 17, 2009 8:13 PM CST reply actions  

Shanahan is beter than OK?

The Broncos have been bathed in mediocrity since Elway left. We can’t let the fact that the Broncos have been a litle better than the Chiefs lead us to believe Shanahan was a great coach. Don’t get me wrong, I like Mike better than Herm, I just don’t think he is the best. If we end up with Shanahan we have a shot at becoming a great team, but we have settled.

just keep matriculating the ball down the field !

by SoCalChief on Jan 17, 2009 10:50 PM CST up reply actions  

I think the consensus answer to that

is that he coached very well and was a great strategist with what he had there. Their drafts were awful, which was his fault as GM, but the fact that he could have them in the playoff hunt on a yearly basis with those players means he’s a pretty good coach.

by KCScuba on Jan 18, 2009 8:45 AM CST up reply actions  

Agreed

The man is a damn good coach. He can acutually make adjustments during the course of a game. As a GM he flunks, but that won’t be his problem here.

by Buck'O on Jan 18, 2009 9:41 AM CST up reply actions  

OK, I agree. Just a few obsticles left;

Shanahan is power hungry and expensive.

We will owe Herm 4 million if we fire him, Shanahan is going to want a bucket of money to come to KC, but money is not the big problem, power is.

Shanahan has a huge ego. Will he be able to have the kind of relationship Piloi will require to be an effective GM over Mike? The old saying you can’t teach an old dog new tricks may ring true here. What if Pioli and Shanahan fool themselves in to thinking they can work together and time shows us they can’t? That would set us back at least five more years. A rookie coach would be much more malleable for Pioli.

If I had to put my bankroll behind Pioli or Shanahan turning around the Chiefs my money is on Pioli hands down. I don’t want any coach that would be high risk as it relates to the GM / HC relationship.

If Mike Shanhan interviews and thoroughly convinces both Scott Pioli AND Clark Hunt that he can take the job and perform completley under Scot Pioli rule, I’m for Shanahan, I just don’t see that happening.

Mike Shanhan had a blow to his ego, unfortunately he is going to need at least one more good blow to it before he is an effective coah again in the NFL. I don’t want that next blow to have to come from us.

just keep matriculating the ball down the field !

by SoCalChief on Jan 18, 2009 11:37 AM CST up reply actions  

Denver is still on the hook

for the remainder of Shannys contract, so if we were to get him, if we paid him 4 mil a year, Denver would have to pay him the remaining 3 mil of his 7 mil a year contract with them. Gamaplanning, adjustments, etc., I would definately take Shanny.

Welcome to KC Scott Pioli, home of the most rabid football fans in the NFL!

by Eric Allen on Jan 18, 2009 12:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Exactly

I’d say offer him a deal for the next 3 years. Shanahan is guaranteed $7million a year, so if we gave him a 3 year deal and paid him $1million a year, Denver is required to make up the difference and they pay him the other $6million. If in three years, he’s done well, let’s talk about an extension and pay him what he’s worth.

Sure he’s had way too much power in Denver, but if he came to KC, he’d never get in the front door unless he understood and accepted that he’d be working under a GM who is essentially the man who will give his blessing on all personnel decisions, whether it’s player or coaching staff.

by Buck'O on Jan 18, 2009 1:08 PM CST up reply actions  

What qualities do you want in a coach?

Instead of asking “does Herman deserve another year” the way to look at it is to decide what qualities we want in a head coach and then hire the coach who has those qualities. If that’s Herman then so be it.

But for me, I want a coach who is smart, aggressive, has been part of a winning organization, has a creative approach, and who is well-thought of as a football mind and potential leader.

None of that sounds like Herman Edwards, the cover 2 “this is not Arena ball” play it safe loser of 20 of his last 26 who was hated by the fanbase in his only 2 jobs and is widely mocked around the NFL for not being able to manage a game.

by Offense of the 70s on Jan 17, 2009 9:57 PM CST reply actions  

Before we get to impatient

It’s very possible that Ryan is the guy and Pioli is waiting until they are eliminated, probably today, before making the big push. The whole process has been secretive, why stop now?

by KCScuba on Jan 18, 2009 8:51 AM CST reply actions  

Head Coach

Hey UCrawford. Man, you are right on! I love to read your posts. And, those of Texas Chief. When you watch successful head coachs and see that they are “in the game” on the sidelines, and that they are aware of all facets: clock, refs, challanges, offensive and defensive plays…then you watch Edwards who appears lost. It’’s evident that a new HC is needed.

by benofoolnomore on Jan 18, 2009 9:37 AM CST reply actions  

Well

the team “paid” lol

by FrankPitts on Jan 18, 2009 6:57 PM CST reply actions  

i see where ur all comming from

alot of you guys dont like herm, and im not obsessed with him in no way, believe me..

but its not about what coach we like or want.. its more important about what the players want also.. im not sayin pioli should consult the players about who to hire, but the players obviously like herm, and are willing to play hard for him. i think herm should get another year to build on what hes doing.

by thewaffle1 on Jan 18, 2009 7:46 PM CST reply actions  

Even so

We could release Herm and keep Chan on as OC for a new defensive minded coach and preserve some continuity.

by Buck'O on Jan 19, 2009 11:18 AM CST up reply actions  

A few years ago

some people wanted to see Al Saunders get another shot at HC when Vermeil retired. Is there a reason he is not even mentioned as a consideration for this or other HC positions?

by JComp11 on Jan 18, 2009 10:41 PM CST reply actions  

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