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Detroit Lions Ask for Permission to Interview Chiefs DC Gunther Cunningham



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via media.scout.com


Sounds like the end of this relationship may be quick and painless:

Schwartz asked for and received permission to interview Kansas City Chiefs defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham, who worked with him on the Tennessee Titans’ staff from 2001 to 2003.
Cunningham’s job security in Kansas City is tenuous at best, and the fact that he was one of the first coaches that Schwartz contacted is a sign of how much he is wanted in Detroit. One league source said that Cunningham is expected to be hired in Detroit.

I think Cunningham and the Chiefs should just wish each good luck and take this deal if the Lions make the offer. Cunningham's record as a defensive coordinator has been indefensibly bad for some time now. He could benefit from a fresh start as much as the Chiefs.

Also, just to remind you of how tenuous some of these reports can be, Cunningham was also rumored to be an "outside candidate" for the open Titans defensive coordinator job. That link there is a lot softer than Schefter's above.

Let the defensive coordinator speculation begin.

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More good news

…maybe Herm can be DB coach.

by FrankPitts on Jan 16, 2009 6:47 PM CST reply actions  

Their

ineptitude ceases to amaze me. The NFL should just sieze the Lions from the Ford family.

by KansasCityShuffle on Jan 16, 2009 7:21 PM CST up reply actions  

And here I thought

that everything was Herm’s fault…

If the O-line isn't built up, a rookie QB is gonna look bad next season. If the O-line is a lot better, Thigpen will look better next season.
A rookie QB drafted at #3 has less than a %5 chance of starting Game one of '09. Slotting holdouts will prevent him from competing with Thigpen.

by Bleedingredandgold on Jan 17, 2009 1:16 AM CST up reply actions  

He is not a bad coordinator

If he was a terrible coordinator then he wouldn’t have coordinated the best defenses from 1995-1998..

Our main problem is we have very little talent on the defense..Our defense was actually not bad last year..Very mediocre..I blame herm and gunther for the lack of talent but again, I think he could prosper else where

by CALIFAN1986 on Jan 16, 2009 6:54 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

I love Gun's fire, but,

I have questions about his coaching abilities.

When he was fired as our Head Coach, he went from HC to LB coach at TEN. HC to Position Coach?

He was a LB position coach, inserted himself this year as LB coach, and failed miserably. He also couldn’t decide between being on the sidelines or the booth. He did this before, this isn’t the first time. DC & Position Coach FAIL simultaneously?

Simply as DC, what has he proven to warrant the qualities to revamp the Lions D? At this point, it bares serious consideration that Gun was a product of his players. DT, Neil Smith, Saleamua, Hasty, Carter, etc. Only Herm could have failed with that talent on D. Is Gun competent?

by DThomasReigns on Jan 16, 2009 7:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Actually, I was gonna write a FanPost about this

If I were Bob Gretz and wanted to make the argument for DT being a HoFer, I would simply show the voters the stats for a Gunther Cunningham defense WITH DT and the stats for a Gun Defense WITHOUT DT.

Derrick Thomas made Gunther Cunningham looks smart…. and that’s like making Rosie O’Donnell look sexy., its a miracle.

by Sudden on Jan 16, 2009 7:05 PM CST up reply actions  

I will

but work has flared up worse than a case of herpes over the last few days, so I’ve been too busy playing catchup and letting Chris and Primetime OWN my life with a new headline post every hour.

by Sudden on Jan 16, 2009 7:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Stale is right...

A change of scenery and personnel can do alot for a coach…

It would be best for everyone

by woodman212 on Jan 16, 2009 7:27 PM CST up reply actions  

I think the Gun effect will be mitigated

by the fact that Schwartz is a good defensive coach in his own right.

"Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football"
- John Heisman

by Maddogmag on Jan 16, 2009 6:56 PM CST reply actions  

Lions get permission to talk to The KC Chief Cheerleaders

Take everything we have and put it in the 314- I dont care, take big Dick Curl!!!! Clean house Scotty!!!!!!

by 8GlausISaHoss8 on Jan 16, 2009 7:01 PM CST reply actions  

Only in my dreams will dick curl and his perma-frown/denture face be gonw forever

"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week."

by bigbe on Jan 17, 2009 2:10 AM CST up reply actions  

Nah

He’s tired of banger her..He wants the other blondie!

by CALIFAN1986 on Jan 16, 2009 7:11 PM CST reply actions  

Well...

either that or all chips in for the gang bang ……..

by 8GlausISaHoss8 on Jan 16, 2009 7:15 PM CST reply actions  

Beautiful

Just beautiful. First Priefer, now Gun. Who’s next – Krummie? Nothing resolves itself this well. Somebody must be working behind the scenes ; ^ )

by KansasCityShuffle on Jan 16, 2009 7:25 PM CST reply actions  

Passion

Herm’s men and himself – Krumrie, Gunther, etc. – seem to have a lot of fire and passion for coaching but lack the reasoning to make quality decisions.

by dorsey on Jan 16, 2009 7:32 PM CST reply actions  

What a week

to be a Chiefs fan!! See ya Gunther!!!!

by paratrooper on Jan 16, 2009 8:00 PM CST reply actions  

Yup

Time for Gun to hit the road…best of luck to him in Detroit because he’s going to need it with what he’s got to work with there.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Jan 16, 2009 8:27 PM CST reply actions  

Everyone's Gotta Go Sometime

And frankly, I think the job Gunther did here last year was quite possibly the death of a few Chiefs fans.

That was just brutal to watch last year.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Jan 16, 2009 8:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Do we get compensation?

Since the move is lateral one, he’s DC here, and he would be hired as a DC there, aren’t we entitled to compensation? To me, just taking him off our hands is compensation enough, but with how inept the Lions are maybe we can also get a 4th rounder from them!

by BeijingKCfan on Jan 16, 2009 10:00 PM CST reply actions  

Let's be fair

How much was Gun responsible for?? Or was it because he had to run Herm’s TAMPA 2???

by Boyzel on Jan 16, 2009 10:15 PM CST reply actions  

It Was Gunther

Herm demonstrated with the installation of the spread offense that he was willing to implement unconventional solutions if what he liked wasn’t working. I seriously doubt that Gunther had all of these wonderful brilliant ideas on how to run great defenses and mean old Herm Edwards shot them down because he’d rather suck with the Tampa-2.

Not to mention, the linebackers went from a strength in 2007 to a major weakness in 2008 after Gunther took them over. He did a really wretched job with most of what he touched last year.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Jan 16, 2009 10:46 PM CST up reply actions  

It was, was it?

Just who’s been saying that Herm’s good with offense? When the boss doesn’t understand something, it is easier for a specialist subordinate to convince him to change the plan.

Herm does have some understanding about D, OTOH. That would make it harder to change his mind, if it was made up.

Skill & ability aside, I blame the Herm-Carl-Gun combo. I suspect that the sum was /less/ than the value of any particular part. Collaborations can go that way.

If the O-line isn't built up, a rookie QB is gonna look bad next season. If the O-line is a lot better, Thigpen will look better next season.
A rookie QB drafted at #3 has less than a %5 chance of starting Game one of '09. Slotting holdouts will prevent him from competing with Thigpen.

by Bleedingredandgold on Jan 17, 2009 1:30 AM CST up reply actions  

I Didn't Say Herm's Good With Offense

In fact I think he’s a pretty terrible head coach all around. But he showed a willingness to depart from his comfort zone with fairly radical changes when he had no other choice, the defense was horrific this year, so I find it really tough to believe he was so married to doctrine that he was unwilling to make changes to the defense if it would make it more effective. So I find the most common defense of Gunther (“Herm wouldn’t let him run what he wants to run”) both high speculative and highly unlikely. Herm is incompetent, not stupid.

Plus, as DJ pointed out, the Chiefs actually ran less of the Cover-2 this year and a lot more man-to-man because they had better corners. The problem was that the front seven couldn’t generate a pass rush and had constant problems with tackling against the run. Both problems that could be attributed to coaching as well as talent, and that’s Gunther’s area of responsibility to coach.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Jan 17, 2009 9:21 AM CST up reply actions  

You apear to have missed my point, sir.

Which was: When a person doesn’t understand something well, and knows it, he’s much more likely to listen to someone who understands it well. That’s why I think you’re overplaying the ’ “It was (all/mostly) Gunther” that screwed up the D’ card. Whereas on the D side, Herm does understand something about how it works – but that makes him subject to Will Rogers Jr’s old saying: ‘It ain’t what you don’t know that’ll get you, it’s what you /know/ to be true that just ain’t so’. (Or words to that effect)

I’m not in love with Gun as the Chiefs move forward. Whether bad coach or bad fit, his rep’s been tarnished here, and that doesn’t help when it comes to coaching his players. He probably needs to revamp his approach to his job, too – sleep deprivation isn’t a good thing, especially as you get older. At a guess, he needs to learn to delegate better, but streamlining his approach might help him, too. Successful companies give their workers breaks for good reason. If I were interviewing Gun, Id ask him if he planned to continue to work 20-hour days or he could learn to delegate some of his job so that he could get some rest during the season. If he couldn’t/wouldn’t, that might well be a deal-breaker for me. YMMV

But for all that, Gun going to Detroit might well serve KC, Detroit, and Gun himself rather well. What does Detroit have to lose? The HC knows him, and believes in him, too. It may well work out that KC and Detroit both wind up with upgrades.

As for the number of C2/T2 plays they played: I don’t think that is a useful measure on the D. IMO, it’s a matter of underlying philosophy, where a T2 team looks for picks while playing bend-but-don’t-break in the meantime, instead of the 90s KC D which was oriented to intimidate and break opposing Os with sacks and strips/fumbles and forcing the other team to have to not only throw, but throw deep by smothering the run.

For all that Carl pissed off Jarred Allen, if he’d been here in the 90s, I am willing to bet that JA woulddn’t have left, despite the feud, because he’d have been in love with the philosophy under Marty/Gun. People who are happy at their jobs are much less likely to leave them, even for a little more money, and even when there’s some friction with their boss’ boss’ boss. But playing under Herm+Gun, under the C2/T2, the aggression just wasn’t there to hold his interest.

Not saying Carl didn’t screw things up with JA, just that there were (as always) other factors in play that might have made a big difference.

If the O-line isn't built up, a rookie QB is gonna look bad next season. If the O-line is a lot better, Thigpen will look better next season.
A rookie QB drafted at #3 has less than a %5 chance of starting Game one of '09. Slotting holdouts will prevent him from competing with Thigpen.

by Bleedingredandgold on Jan 18, 2009 4:00 PM CST up reply actions  

All Valid Points

My only difference on Gunther was that Herm showed a willingness to listen to fairly radical ideas when he had no other choice, so I find the common defense of Gunther (“Herm wouldn’t listen to him”) to be kind of far-fetched. A more likely scenario IMO is that Gunther either simply didn’t any good ideas to pitch or was fine with what Herm was doing. Either way, he wasn’t fixing anything here and it’s time for a change.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Jan 19, 2009 2:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Chiefs didn't even play much more Tampa 2 last year than any other team

They played man to man about 50% of the time with the younger CBs. Almost every team plays some Cover 2 and zone, its too hard on your CBs to run up and down the field all day and playing a zone gives them a little bit of a break.

by ChiefDJ on Jan 16, 2009 11:01 PM CST up reply actions  

They played a ton of Cover 2 with Law and Surtain

because they couldn’t run, but they played a lot more man to man with Flowers and Carr. It’s a misconception that the Chiefs lost because of the Cover 2.

by ChiefDJ on Jan 16, 2009 11:02 PM CST up reply actions  

What?!?

Welcome to KC Scott Pioli, home of the most rabid football fans in the NFL!

by Eric Allen on Jan 17, 2009 12:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Its true

heard it from my cousin whos friends boyfriend works at a gas station and a yard boy told him while he was filling up his riding lawnmower

by paratrooper on Jan 17, 2009 12:54 PM CST up reply actions  

I think it's true

A buddy of mine is big into real estate and I believe him – I searched on the net this morning and found the following link too – not sure 100% of course: http://forums.mmaweekly.com/showthread.php?t=15261

You have just received the Amish Virus. Since we do not have electricity or computers, you are on the honor system. Please delete all of your files.

Thank thee

by JChief on Jan 17, 2009 12:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Not saying its false

it could be true! But who knows! All i know is im sick of all the speculation! If Herm is going to stay id like to know asap so i can drink my self retarded untill this time next year. Hopefully then iill sober up and Herm is gone.

by paratrooper on Jan 17, 2009 1:00 PM CST up reply actions  

yes

You have just received the Amish Virus. Since we do not have electricity or computers, you are on the honor system. Please delete all of your files.

Thank thee

by JChief on Jan 17, 2009 1:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Hmm, very interesting.

Welcome to KC Scott Pioli, home of the most rabid football fans in the NFL!

by Eric Allen on Jan 17, 2009 1:56 PM CST up reply actions  

That is from 12-27-08.

Do not know how much I would read into this.

Welcome to KC Scott Pioli, home of the most rabid football fans in the NFL!

by Eric Allen on Jan 17, 2009 1:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Does Pioli bring in the 3-4 D?

I think now, in a rebuilding mode, that yes indeed now is the time to focus on a winning scheme employed by the upper echelon of the NFL.

You have just received the Amish Virus. Since we do not have electricity or computers, you are on the honor system. Please delete all of your files.

Thank thee

by JChief on Jan 17, 2009 1:03 PM CST reply actions  

that would mean

Herm must go… kind of hard to run his tampon 2 out of the 3-4. And id be ok with it. Its not like we would see a whole lot of drop off in defensive production from the 2008 season.

by paratrooper on Jan 17, 2009 1:12 PM CST up reply actions  

good....

Cunnigham needs to get out of the AFC West….maybe the Broncos can finally win a few in Arrowhead now.

fader nation is a conquered nation

Jerry Jones is Al Davis with a smile!

by mdierk on Jan 18, 2009 6:12 PM CST reply actions  

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