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Getting to Know Scott Pioli (Draft Picks Edition)

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via uponfurtherreview.kansascity.com

We'll be taking a look at the Patriots drafts from '00-'06.  '07 and '08 will not be judged because the players haven't been given time to fully develop/destruct.

A hit is any player that turned out to be a starter or main contributor for the Pats.  Some players only started a year or two for the Pats but are considered a hit because of their draft position (Ex: 5th round pick that starts 3 years is a hit).

A miss is any player that didn't become a starter or main contributor drafted before the 5th round.  The fickle nature of the draft doesn't allow for many safe assumptions after the 5th round.

For a full listing of the Patriots draft picks during the Pioli era, check out this FanPost by Offense of the 70s.

2000

Hit: Greg Randall (4th round), Tom Brady (6th round)

Miss: Adrian Klemm (2nd round), J.R. Redmond (3rd round)

The first draft of the Pioli-Belichick era produced arguably the greatest draft pick ever in Tom Brady.  With a selection like that, the rest is icing on the cake.

Ed. Note: Pioli wasn't the director of personnel until 2001.

2001

Hit: Richard Seymour (1st round), Matt Light (2nd round)

Miss: Brock Williams (3rd round)

Other than quarterback, left tackle and defensive end are the most premium position in the NFL.  Pioli and the Pats nailed both positions in round 1 and 2.  Both have started every year since.

2002

Hit: Daniel Graham (1st round), Deion Branch (2nd round), Jarvis Green (4th round), David Givens (7th round)

Miss: None

Deion Branch cost a 2nd round pick, but returned a higher value (1st rounder) in a trade with the Seahawks.

2003

Hit: Ty Warren (1st round), Eugene Wilson (2nd round), Asante Samuel (4th round), Dan Koppen (5th round), Tully Banta-Cain (7th round), Ethan Kelley (7th round)

Miss: Bethel Johnson (2nd round)

Warren is another defensive end - a propensity for defensive ends?  I'll take it!  Banta-Cain has been with the team for 5 years and Kelley was with the team 3 years.  Not bad for a pair of 7th rounders.

2004

Hit: Vince Wilfork (1st round)

Miss: Guss Scott (3rd round)

Ben Watson was also a 1st round pick and while his numbers were probably not 1st round worthy, he was a contributor for 3 years, and a starter for 2 years.

2005

Hit: Logan Mankins (1st round), Ellis Hobbs (3rd round), Nick Kaczur (3rd round), Matt Cassel (7th round)

Miss: None

Two offensive line starters and a guy whose looking to make the Tom Brady selection in the 6th round a forgotten memory.

2006

Hit: Laurence Maroney (1st round), Stephen Gostkowski, (4th round)

Miss: Chad Jackson (2nd round), David Thomas (3rd round), Garrett Mills (4th round)

Maroney's been a good addition when healthy (which is becoming an increasingly bigger issue with him). 

Hitting the important picks

Pioli and Co. hit the important picks.  They haven't been like the Chiefs completely whiffing on 1st round picks in recent years.  Since Pioli's arrival, the only real 1st round misses are Daniel Graham and Ben Watson which even then both players started multiple years for the team (they just weren't 1st round TE material statistically).

The Brady draft pick

Much has been made about Tom Brady as a 6th round selection.  From what I've heard Pioli and Belichick didn't initially want to select him but they decided to listen to their scouts.  Sometimes loosening your grip on personnel and trusting the advice of those you surround yourself with is just as important as making the final call on a draft pick.

Some interesting notes about the Patriots ability to "plug n' play" via Upon Further Review:

  • 2005 Division Championship: 45 different starters.  NFL Record.
  • 2003 Super Bowl Championship: 42 different starters. NFL Record (at the time).
  • Only 10 players remain from the 2001 Super Bowl team. 

The last one excites me the most.  The Chiefs have had a tendency to hold onto their great players after their prime.  To pay guys based on what you have done versus what you can do.  To hold onto our glory years.  Pioli's track record would indicate he's likely learned the importance of judging a player based on what he can do for your oganization.  He's also likely learned the best time to dump a player that has high value (Ex: Deion Branch).

Regardless of whether you believe it was Belichick or Pioli making the final call on the draft, one of Pioli's jobs was to develop these scouting reports that have worked so well.  Maybe it was Belichick who gave the final okay, but Pioli gave him the information to make that decision.

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Herm's Drafting

Not sure if I have a problem with our recent drafts. We just need someone to put it all together, and be a better game day coach. I want to see us, for a change, make adjustments at half time. It seems like we stick with our same game plan throughout the game, while the other teams adjust to what may have been working for us.

by kc571 on Jan 14, 2009 11:13 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

exactly

Thats why herm has to go . And it seems like every teams system is just more advanced most these teams can complete passes with ease or do screen with ease . I dont know if its players or coaches but geez i wish we could just run a screen right for once.

by sexassassin on Jan 14, 2009 11:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure labeling Marquese Hill a bust is appropriate

Considering he never got much of a chance, with, you know, DYING and all ;)

The Day Herm Edwards didn't get his team ready to beat the Raiders at Arrowhead is the day he kissed his job goodbye.

So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehn GOODBYYYEE!

by IISaiNtII on Jan 14, 2009 11:16 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I was just basing it off production

But I just removed him to avoid that whole topic.

Thanks for the heads up.

by Joel Thorman on Jan 14, 2009 11:19 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I figured

but he had some pretty good players in front of him on the depth chart at defensive end. Although, he didn’t produce much in the 8 games he played, not sure what his playing time really was.

The Day Herm Edwards didn't get his team ready to beat the Raiders at Arrowhead is the day he kissed his job goodbye.

So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehn GOODBYYYEE!

by IISaiNtII on Jan 14, 2009 11:20 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I believe Marquise Hill is dead. It’s pretty harsh to call him a bust.

by rustdog on Jan 14, 2009 11:17 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

you beat to it

by rustdog on Jan 14, 2009 11:17 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Chad Jackson and David Thomas were value picks. It was hard to pass on them where they fell.

by rustdog on Jan 14, 2009 11:19 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Value?

Thomas has 261 career yards in 3 years…

May have been a value in April of 2006, but 3 years later that was wrong.

by Joel Thorman on Jan 14, 2009 11:20 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Gotta go with you on those two.

in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, you still need good return on investment… Those guys were not it. Pats have had troubles drafting wide receivers and tight ends it seems.

The Day Herm Edwards didn't get his team ready to beat the Raiders at Arrowhead is the day he kissed his job goodbye.

So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehn GOODBYYYEE!

by IISaiNtII on Jan 14, 2009 11:23 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Chad Jackson = bust

The jury is still out on David Thomas, however. He had a very promising first year with the Patriots, and his second year was cut (very) short due to injury. His third year was spent mostly blocking rather than catching passes, so you can’t simply judge his value based on his receiving stats.

by NESilver on Jan 14, 2009 6:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't write him off yet.

He was injured almost his entire first year, then was behind Brady and Watson, then got injured in summer camp before his third year. This year, TEs were held in to block a lot, as the offensive line was weak early in the season with many injuries, and kept in in general as Cassel developed.

He runs good routes, has great hands. His blocking needs to improve. But given the crapshoot that is the draft, I’d say that considering his injury in year one, I wouldn’t write off a third rounder based on his numbers yet.

As Mr. Sloan always says, there is no "I" in team, but there is an "I" in pie. And there's an "I" in meat pie. Anagram of meat is team... I don't know what he's talking about. --Shaun of the Dead

by JohnHannahRules on Jan 14, 2009 9:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No, of course i meant value at the time. Jackson was 1sr round talent and Thomas was coming off the national championship where he caught everything.

by rustdog on Jan 14, 2009 11:22 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Apparently not
Jackson was 1sr round talent

He certainly didn’t perform like 1st round talent. Perception vs. reality here.

by Joel Thorman on Jan 14, 2009 11:36 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

concur

Jackson sucked. Phenom as a physical talent, but couldn’t learn the offense and ran just horribly sloppy routes.

As Mr. Sloan always says, there is no "I" in team, but there is an "I" in pie. And there's an "I" in meat pie. Anagram of meat is team... I don't know what he's talking about. --Shaun of the Dead

by JohnHannahRules on Jan 14, 2009 9:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

whatever happened to bethel johnson?

 The guy had some big plays during one of the Super bowl years.

by rustdog on Jan 14, 2009 11:24 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

pioli

What makes me excited is this guys system most the new england guys your like who? whaaa ?who is that guy ?They seem to just be able to plug guys in and they get the job done no matter what pick they have . That gets me pumped they get value out of their picks and get people who play well in their system.

by sexassassin on Jan 14, 2009 11:28 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I think the draft will be interesting and possibly strange to us this year for this reason

The scheme that is used for both sides of the ball very well may be different than what we are used to seeing. The player(s) we think should be drafted may turn out to be something completely different. Time will tell, but things should really get exciting from here on out.

We need a future defensive leader, his name is James Laurinaitis and he can be selected in round 1 of the upcoming Draft.

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Jan 14, 2009 12:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

It’s all about getting the /value/, not about getting the Name (as many fans are unerstandably wont to do).

Look at tWhitlock and his neverending chorus of Jeff George and Ty Law: it was all about the Name. I’d go so far to say that CP’s era in free agency was all about the Name – but we seldom got the value from those signings.

If the O-line isn't built up, a rookie QB is gonna look bad next season. If the O-line is a lot better, Thigpen will look better next season.
A rookie QB drafted at #3 has less than a %5 chance of starting Game one of '09. Slotting holdouts will prevent him from competing with Thigpen.

by Bleedingredandgold on Jan 14, 2009 12:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's actually a great point

I think Carl was keyed into absolutely everything that came out of Whitlock to the point that he pandered to him. I always felt that Whitlock had influence on some of the decisions that were made.

by Buck'O on Jan 14, 2009 1:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Value will probably

Be the key to Herm, if he stays. If Pioli believes there’s value in keeping him another year, Herm’s in.

Pioli’s by all accounts a clever fellow. If his top two picks for HC aren’t available, he may hold off a season on that one. That hire will be the equivalent of a mariage to him, after all. Does anyone here think that Pioli is just gonna hire “some babe he met in a bar” on this? Yes, yes, I understand that there are people out there who’d hire Joe the Plumber, just to get rid of Herm. I don’t think Pioli’s one of them. He’ll hire someone whom he thinks he can /win/ with, and if retaining Herm can help serve that purpose, he’ll hang onto Herm, be it for a week, or a year.

Much has be wondered about concerning how much of the Pats’ success was Pioli, and how much was Belichick’s. I suspect it was the product of a Good Fit, and that Pioli knows it. He wants his own Good Fit, now.

I wouldn’t say that it’s too late to hire a HC, but every day that ticks away, ups the odds of Herm staying just a little bit more. I’d say that Herm’s gonna interview for the job, at least for next season. If he’s gone, he’ll be gone by Saturday. If he in’t, I’ll put a dollar down that he’s in for 09.

Whoever covers with the best odds (for me) by 11pm central on Thursday gets the action. ;-)

If the O-line isn't built up, a rookie QB is gonna look bad next season. If the O-line is a lot better, Thigpen will look better next season.
A rookie QB drafted at #3 has less than a %5 chance of starting Game one of '09. Slotting holdouts will prevent him from competing with Thigpen.

by Bleedingredandgold on Jan 14, 2009 9:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

As to the last paragraph

It sounds like what we need is a good coach with a good staff and a scheme that fits the personnel? All the “little” people Piloi hires in the next few weeks will be worth watching. (scouts, position coaches, etc…)

We need a future defensive leader, his name is James Laurinaitis and he can be selected in round 1 of the upcoming Draft.

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Jan 14, 2009 11:59 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

ya

I cant wait to see who he hires its going to be good

by sexassassin on Jan 14, 2009 12:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree!

The coaching staff will determine the sucess. The New England coaches are the major reason that the players have been successful.

by Nelly on Jan 14, 2009 12:14 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Stockpiling Picks

Great analysis. Another really positive aspect of the Pioli/Evil Bill drafting was their uncanny knack of stockpiling extra picks, especially in future years.

Picks are currency and currency is meant to be traded. I think the Patriots have been very good at getting value for their traded draft picks and I admire their willingness to pull the trigger.

Carl was renowned for wanting every last little bit of value in a draft pick trade and tended to leave good deals on the table. He clung to Jimmy Johnson’s value chart like it was the Holy Bible. Lord only knows how many good offers blew up because he insisted on switch spots in the 5th round or demanded the other team pony up a 7th rounder.

Great job, Clark!!!

by chiefstatnut on Jan 14, 2009 12:15 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

We actually did a good job of this last year. After having a taste of it, I’d really like to see this practice continued long-term.

by Buck'O on Jan 14, 2009 12:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Which is why we may have seen the last of TG (in a Chiefs uni)

Pioli has no ties to TG at all and may come in from a business standpoint and look at him with “draft pick eyes” and the possibilities. We may have to reserve ourselves to mere memories of the bygone days with Tony. I hope not, I really love watching Tony play for us and being a Chief, but I also know what the extra picks could do for us.

We need a future defensive leader, his name is James Laurinaitis and he can be selected in round 1 of the upcoming Draft.

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Jan 14, 2009 12:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sad but true

but on the other hand, the Pats tried and tried and tried again to draft a good TE and never did accomplish this. Pioli may give it everything he has to keep him.

by Buck'O on Jan 14, 2009 2:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You're spoiled.

TG is a GREAT. Our guys have been good.

As Mr. Sloan always says, there is no "I" in team, but there is an "I" in pie. And there's an "I" in meat pie. Anagram of meat is team... I don't know what he's talking about. --Shaun of the Dead

by JohnHannahRules on Jan 14, 2009 9:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sad but true

The thing is TG had a banner year. So although he’s aging and Pioli has a record of getting rid of past their prime players, I think it can be argued that TG is not… yet.

by Eastcoastransplant on Jan 14, 2009 2:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It depends.

We kept Troy Brown around forever, because he found ways to produce. Bruschi’s still here (I would have cut him loose a year ago).

And Pioli and BB actually have a record of bringing in guys who others thought were past their prime and wringing a few more great years out of them. See: Dillon, Cory; Seau, Junior; Harrison, Rodney.

As Mr. Sloan always says, there is no "I" in team, but there is an "I" in pie. And there's an "I" in meat pie. Anagram of meat is team... I don't know what he's talking about. --Shaun of the Dead

by JohnHannahRules on Jan 14, 2009 9:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Prime Candidate: Larry Johnson

Get that booger off our back for whatever they can get for him. Find someone who wants to run hard every play.

Great job, Clark!!!

by chiefstatnut on Jan 14, 2009 12:22 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Patriot

I can see LJ being traded to NE

by Nelly on Jan 14, 2009 12:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I can't

Right now, we have:

Laurence Maroney (though I can see him going on the block)
Sammy Morris
LaMont Jordan
Kevin Faulk
Ben Jarvis Green Ellis
Heath Evans (FB)

We had our best rushing year since 1985. Why would we want an aging power back with a bad attitude, half a step slower?

Shop him to the Seahawks — they still think Shaun Alexander can run. Maybe you can fool them.

As Mr. Sloan always says, there is no "I" in team, but there is an "I" in pie. And there's an "I" in meat pie. Anagram of meat is team... I don't know what he's talking about. --Shaun of the Dead

by JohnHannahRules on Jan 14, 2009 9:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

LJ does not run hard man that got me so upset ever sunday watching this guy half assit on the field and walk off the field pouting oh man that guy kills me

by sexassassin on Jan 14, 2009 1:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Very Curious

I am anxious to see what decision is made in regards to the HC. If Edwards is not coming back it seems that he should be dismissed as soon as possible to jump on the best prospects out there. Also any new coach has to have time to assemble his staff. It is interesting to hear over and over how any person that leaves the “Belichick Nest” has no success. If I recall the GM in Atlanta came from NE and he did a fantastic job. Even Weiss, Crennel, Groh, and Mangini had their moments. Being a coach is a different monster! It has been said that you only learn how to be a HC by being one.

by Nelly on Jan 14, 2009 12:22 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

ESPN Reports

Michael Smith is reporting at ESPN that Herm could possibly stay on as a coach and that his firing is not imminent. He mentions that Pioli is coming in with an open mind in regards to the coaching situation. If Herm stays I believe only Gailey and Gibbs need to stay everyone else should go. Funny side note Michael Smith wrote the article but began it with “according to Michael Smith…”

by Nelly on Jan 14, 2009 12:38 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

correction

he actually said “A source with knowledge of the team’s thinking told ESPN’s Michael Smith…”

by Nelly on Jan 14, 2009 12:40 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Is our old GM up to some kinda trick?
A source with knowledge of the team’s thinking

We need a future defensive leader, his name is James Laurinaitis and he can be selected in round 1 of the upcoming Draft.

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Jan 14, 2009 12:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hold ON

let me check with Ms. Cleo

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

Thigpen WILL NOT be the Chiefs starting QB next year IMO. He can compete for the job and should be 2nd or 3rd string.

by THE_TRUTH on Jan 14, 2009 12:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Scott 'Pendergast' Pioli

Judging by the way Clark put the clamp down on the organization, and the way Pioli has been with the Pats, its safe to say not much will be coming out of Arrowhead in the future. While this sucks for all fans, in the end the franchises that are the most successful tend to operate this way. I for one am excited to welcome the new Pendergast to KC.

by wjp1982 on Jan 14, 2009 12:53 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

so where do you think we will hide the video tape machines?

We need a future defensive leader, his name is James Laurinaitis and he can be selected in round 1 of the upcoming Draft.

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Jan 14, 2009 12:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Finally

Someone who can pull off wearing only leather coats, greased back hair and an arrogance that he owns the city.

by Joel Thorman on Jan 14, 2009 1:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

and

a love for the plaza like no other.

by wjp1982 on Jan 14, 2009 2:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Good read

In addition to Pioli’s talents with the draft, he’s very good at identifying latent talent (RB BenJarvus Green-Ellis), talent that’s not a good fit for their current team (WR Wes Welker, RB LaMont Jordan), and disenfranchised talent (WR Randy Moss).

In regards to not holding on to players too long, I give you Troy Brown. Brown is probably one of the most respected Patriots of this past decade, by both fans and organization alike. Troy made it clear he wanted to play in 2008, but he was past his prime; his mind still had the desire and drive, but his body just wouldn’t let him. Pioli and Belichick had to say “no” to one of their favorite players.

You’re in great hands.

Blogger at SBNation's New England Patriots blog, Pats Pulpit

by MaPatsFan on Jan 14, 2009 2:41 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

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