Herm Edwards' Bad Luck with Quarterbacks

by Chris Thorman on Sep 9, 2008 11:49 AM CDT in 2008 Campaign Comment 30 comments

Good read here from MAWK/Ridiculous Matt over at FanHouse about Herm's curious history with NFL quarterbacks.

I'm not going to provide any guidance towards the theories behind the reasons for the following events, nor am I going to present an iron clad investigation as to the causes of this particular phenomenon. No, instead I'm just going to state some facts in chronological order as it pertains to the quarterbacks Herm Edwards has coached over the last five years.

Like Matt says at the end of his post, Herm really isn't responsible per se for the QB injuries. It just sort of happens. I believe that these injuries are totally coincidental to any affect Herm had on those teams.

Thoughts on Herm's bad luck with QBs?

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Not so much Herm

As Pennington and Croyle. Wasn’t Pennington injury riddled in college or am I making that up? And neither of them appear to be strong in the least bit.

by Joel Thorman on Sep 9, 2008 11:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

But then

you have Huard AND Green.

by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

But still

A very interesting perspective, MAWK.

by Joel Thorman on Sep 9, 2008 11:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Bilichick would be just as open to this criticism

Bledsoe got hurt. Tom Brady is hurt. It’s not a big enough sample size to call a pattern.

QBs get hurt.

by KS on Sep 9, 2008 12:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

That's

two quarterbacks in 8 years.

This is four quarterbacks in five. How big is a sample size? Because Herm has a larger number of hurt quarterbacks than any coach I can think of. The Miami revolving door was about them being terrible, not hurt.

by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

this view that people have good or bad luck

is really a big crock. The same with the argument that Brodie is “brittle” – it’s like believing in Magic.

Brodie gets hurt because (1) he waits too long to throw the ball and (2) he still has inadequate protection. That doesn’t make him “brittle” – it makes him a slow decision-maker who makes BAD DECISIONS (like trying to tackle a defensive lineman) and who plays behind a BAD LINE.

Similarly, Herm doesn’t have some kind of voodoo curse that attracts bad quarterbacks or makes them get injured. Herm didn’t bring Damon or Trent to this team – and the insinuation that their getting hurt is somehow on him as some kind of “bad luck” is silly. Damon and Brodie have played behind a weak line and have suffered from it. Trent and Pennington played behind pretty good lines and got hurt.

In Brodie’s case, It is likely a combination of Herm’s taking a gamble on a quarterback with health issues when he thought he was getting a good deal – and sheer chance. It isn’t luck. In Chad Pennington’s case, he was drafted 18th overall and had no injury history. Further, if I remember correctly, he played behind a pretty good line with the Jets.

by KS on Sep 9, 2008 1:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Brittle

Maybe it’s because he’s like 185 pounds. I think that’s what people are talking about.

by Joel Thorman on Sep 9, 2008 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Brodie Croyle: 6’2" 206lbs

Jeff Garcia: 6’1" 205lbs (it is POSSIBLE to be a weanie man and succeed)

JP Losman: 6’2" 212lbs

Ingle Martin: 6’2" 220lbs

Chris Simms: 6’4" 220lbs

Tim Rattay: 6’0" 200lbs

Naming my son Brodie Damon

by troy145 on Sep 9, 2008 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ha

Croyle was listed at 180 lbs last year.

And let’s see here….

Garcia: Good
Losman – lost his job, sucks
Martin – practice squad guy
Simms – coming off a massive injury
Rattay – terrible

by Joel Thorman on Sep 9, 2008 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And by Ha I mean...

I don’t buy it for a second that he’s 206.

by Joel Thorman on Sep 9, 2008 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i only listed those guys cus theyre the names that are getting tossed around

and i mentioned Garcia just cus i think if Brodie’s gonna succeed, he’ll be a garcia-esque player

Naming my son Brodie Damon

by troy145 on Sep 9, 2008 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wonder why

Garcia had 4 teams in 4 hours prior to this season?

by Joel Thorman on Sep 9, 2008 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hours, duh

Teams

by Joel Thorman on Sep 9, 2008 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Did it again

4 teams in 4 years…man

by Joel Thorman on Sep 9, 2008 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

4....

hey he’s been to the probowl 4 times too!

what a coincidence.

prowbowl caliber football not good enough for you?

Naming my son Brodie Damon

by troy145 on Sep 9, 2008 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, that was a real question

I mean I’m sure it’s because of his age but he’s been pretty productive in his career considering the circumstances.

I leave the sarcasm to Matt :)

by Joel Thorman on Sep 10, 2008 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Because other teams aren't as violently desperate as we are

to the point where they’re willing to keep Damon Huard on staff?

by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 10, 2008 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Huh?

Garcia was a Pro Bowler. I guess I just don’t think that’s desperation.

by Joel Thorman on Sep 10, 2008 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

At this point

I got lost in the thread. I would kill for Garcia as a stop-gap. See, he’s old, but worth it.

by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 10, 2008 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

O.K. Look

At all the injuries since Herm has been here. His Last season with the Jets 4-12, with like 17 guys on IR. He is jinxed with the injury bug.

by Eric Allen on Sep 9, 2008 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So it's not the system

It’s just the failures of these athletes for not being able to be blasted continuosly by 6 -3 250 pound demons and get back up and throw touchdowns. Got it.

Oh, and Brodie, who’s always been known as a slinger before he got to KC, he’s a slow decision maker. That has nothing to do with the system.

Got it. Thanks for the update.

by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 1:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

the offense has been dumbed down at least 2 times

since Croyle got here, ostensibly to “assist” his development. That may give us a clue as to why he waits so long to pass.

In the great pantheon of Alabama quarterbacks, is Croyle REALLY that fondly remembered?

by sm7600 on Sep 9, 2008 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wait.

You’re saying that they dumbed down the offense for Brodie? so that whole “we’re going to get back to just playing football” thing, that was just a clever ruse for trying to give brodie a simpler system? Even though he handled a fairly complex system in college? Oh. Great. Thanks.

Again, this isn’t so much about Brodie as it is about the fact that again, Herm Edwards has had four of his quarterbacks hurt in five years. Out of four quarterbacks. So in the last five years, Herm Edwards has never coached a healthy quarterback.

by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, get back to me on "college football"

and “complex schemes” as compared to the NFL. Maybe, just maybe, the speed of the game made it necessary for Croyle, at least, to have less to think about

by sm7600 on Sep 9, 2008 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yes

believe me

yes

Naming my son Brodie Damon

by troy145 on Sep 9, 2008 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If the offense is being "dumbed down"

Then isn’t that a pretty clear indictment on Croyle’s ability to understand the offense?

by Joel Thorman on Sep 9, 2008 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

it is for me

I won’t pretend to speak for anyone else.

by sm7600 on Sep 9, 2008 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

no

i said it’s the failure of Brodie for being slow to throw the ball. Brodie’s failure to get rid of the ball and his choice last year to tackle a D lineman after an interception have nothing to do with the system and everything to do with Brodie being a not very good NFL quarterback.

by KS on Sep 9, 2008 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Herms bad luck with QB's

The bad luck comes from his drafts. Herm need only to look at his draft picks over his coaching career. From 2001-2005 at New York Jets, he selected 36 picks over 5 years and selected only 6 offensive line players 1 in 3rd, 1 in 4th, 1 in 5th, 1 in 6th, and 2 in 7th round. With the defensive line getting 7 picks 2 in 1st, 1 in 3rd, 1 in 4th, 1 in 5th, and 2 in 7th round. From 2006-2008 in KC we see much of the same, selecting 25 total picks only 4 offensive line players 1 in 1st , and 3 in 6th round. With the defensive line getting 5 picks 2 in 1st, 1 in 2nd, 1 in 3rd, and 1 in 7th. Over the 8 years he has been a head coach he picks his offensive line men in the later rounds and picks the defensive line earlier. This shows why your QB get hurt your OL are late picks. This years draft was much of the same with 12 picks we selected only 2 OL players in a draft that was very deep with OL players and we take 2 TE where we have an all pro and only need 3 on the team compared to 8 or 9 OL. Let Herm know his QB’s will keep getting hurt while our OL gets little help from the draft where we are building the team. We know he is defensive oriented, but one thing a team needs is an offensive line that protects the QB.

by JimE on Sep 10, 2008 12:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs