The day after... Calm thoughts on Chiefs loss to Pats
by ChiefDJ on Sep 8, 2008 6:54 PM CDT
Email
PrintI have to admit I was pretty dejected yesterday. But not by the loss. I expected that. Even without Brady, the Patriots still have one of the best teams in the league. They still have the best big play WR in the NFL, the best possession receiver in the NFL, a pro bowl offensive line and a defensive line made up completely of 1st round draft picks. New England is where all the great players in the league go to end their careers for their one last shot at winning it all. Even without Tom Brady, the Patriots are a match for any team in the NFL.
No, I was not upset by the expected loss to a team that went undefeated last year while we lost 9 straight games. I felt my stomach drop when I saw Croyle pile driven into the turf and immediately grab his shoulder. As far as I was concerned, the rest of the game didn't matter. I saw the complete waste of an entire season in developing a franchise QB.
At that point, I knew that it really didn't matter whether Croyle could potentially develop into a franchise QB or not. A great QB is no good if he's never in the game when you need him. Three injuries that knocked him out of a game in 7 starts. That is not a recipe for success.
I've always liked Croyle. I watched him before the draft and thought he had a lot of potential and was excited when the Chiefs picked him up in the 3rd round and I still think that given time, he could develop into a quality NFL QB. Maybe not at the level of a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning, but surely he could be a peer of Tony Romo or David Garrard.
This paragraph in Joe Posnanski's article really hit home for me:
Here’s a name for you: Greg Cook. Have you heard of him? Bill Walsh, the man who coached Joe Montana, said Greg Cook could have been the greatest quarterback who ever lived. As you know, that did not happen. Cook played one year in the NFL, was chosen Rookie of the Year, but badly hurt his shoulder. He threw only three more passes for the rest of his career. That’s the harshness of the game.
Had this injury happened midway through the season or toward the end of the season, I probably would still have hope that Croyle can develop into who I think he can. But the fact that he can't even stay healthy for a couple games in a row leads me to believe its probably time to move on. I like the kid, but I love the Chiefs and I want whats best for them.
Now that doesn't mean that when Croyle returns from the injury and regains the starting job (as he no doubt will, there is no one to replace him and the team isn't going anywhere anyway this season) that I won't root for him and still hope he can become "the man". I still believe he has the tools and the ability but needs experience. But a QB that cannot stay healthy does his team more harm than good, no matter who he is. Just ask the Eagles.
FURTHER THOUGHTS ON THE GAME
* Branden Albert is a stud. Missed all but a week combined of OTAs and Training Camp and steps into the game against the defending AFC Champions and holds his own. Albert is going to be a star.
* Page and Pollard have both greatly improved over last season. They are both making sound tackles and hitting much harder.
* Hali/Dorsey/Tank/Turk are going to be fantastic run stoppers. Hopefully they can get the pass rush going.
* Play that turned the game - Pats 3rd & 11 at the 1/2 yd line and the Pats backup QB throws a bomb to Randy Moss. Surtain was totally caught off guard and got burned. If the Chiefs make that stop, they have a short field and at LEAST get a field goal and should have been able to score a TD.
* Loved the 2 back sets with LJ and Charles. I think they should do a lot more of it.
* The Chiefs offense was boring, but it kept us in the game. When faced with an overwhelming offense, the strategy of burning time off the clock and keeping it close till the 4th quarter is succesful. Despite the unglamorous playcalling (which I think could have been MUCH MUCH better), like the Indianapolis game last year, it gave us a chance to win at the end. Unfortunately with 4 shots at the endzone from the 5 they couldn't get it done.
* Devard Darling finally showed up. I was thinking the whole game that the dude was the invisible man because you never saw or heard from him, but that 68 yd catch and run was huge. Hopefully he can do one or two of those a game.
* We need Will Franklin back bad.
* Our defense looks very good. We need pass rush and our LBs are still below average, but the core is there.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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surtain did not get burned on that play
he was in zone coverage obviously expecting some kind of help. even the TV announcers mentioned it on the replay. the issue on that play was that jon F. mcgraw was playing. why? no idea, but that big play was a competence issue by whoever puts personnel on the field rather than surtain just getting beat.
Never giving up on your team is what makes you a good fan.
by kcisbetterthanstlateverything on Sep 8, 2008 7:09 PM CDT reply actions
If Surtain was in zone, he wouldn't have been anywhere near that play
He was a couple steps behind and had absolutely no clue where the ball was and was in fact still looking for it for several steps after Moss had already caught it.
Maybe
he accidentally dropped his keys.
Or a contact. Those are really hard to find.
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 12:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Does Moss wear contacts
I could have sworn I saw him grabbing his eye and looking on the ground.
by Joel Thorman on Sep 9, 2008 12:46 AM CDT up reply actions
No
He was looking for the millions he dropped when he resigned with the Patriots for what will probably be a 8-8 year.
This Brady injury pretty much sucks for everyone.
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 1:01 AM CDT up reply actions
I see 10 wins out of them
I still think they’re better than the rest of the East until proven otherwise.
Schedule
will kill them. AFC East is improved, and they had too many holes on defense to compensate. That’s what so killer about our performance. The opportunities were there for us to uspet them without Brady, and we just didn’t execute, with or without Brodie.
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 1:07 AM CDT up reply actions
They actually have a pretty easy schedule
They play the AFC West and NFC West – probably the two worst divisions in football.
Chargers
will be better, that was a freak loss. Denver looked good tonight, and again, we’re talking about losing your most valuable player. What happens when teams start stacking 8 men in the box and daring Cassell to throw? Unless he pulls a Brady, it could get bad, because their O-line is not invincible.
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 1:18 AM CDT up reply actions
They have one of the better offensive lines in the league
I wouldn’t dare Cassel to throw it to Moss or Welker.
Over/under 8 wins for the patriots
Loser has to write an Ode to Damon Huard. Deal?
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 1:30 AM CDT up reply actions
It's The Same Principle All-Star Baseball 2005
Whenever I’ve played ASB 2005 for a season on the easy setting and one of my players hits 220 RBIs, the season stats suddenly reset and he goes back to one because apparently the program can’t handle it if a player exceeds certain parameters.
Obviously the NFL uses the same engine for building their schedules as ASB 2005 so they gave the Patriots the schedule of an 0-16 team :)
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Randy Moss on that play
“Well, it was actually a play designed to get us deep into Kansas City territory,” said Moss, who finished the game with six catches for 116 yards and a touchdown. “When I came off the ball I saw the corner and the safety squat, meaning their feet were flat-footed, so I just thought I would try to make a play. I cut my route off and just went deep. The offense just executed.”
via the Providence Journal
by Joel Thorman on Sep 8, 2008 11:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Also love the 2 back sets
re: “Just ask the Eagles”
I don’t think that’s a fair statement be because McNabb started 15 or more games 4 out of 5 years where he led his team to the conference championship game four times and the Super Bowl once.
McNabb had a good 5 year run which is probably about right for elite, non-HOF QBs like McNabb.
I'm contemplating the same
Croyle has one more chance to make a solid run of starts. If gets injured again this season, depending on the play of course, I would think hard about moving on.
by Chris Thorman on Sep 8, 2008 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm a Chiefs guy, not a Croyle guy
I like Croyle. I think he has ability. But he has not won a game yet and he hasn’t had a game where he was just spectacular. I’m patient and more than willing to give him the entire season to see if he can get over the hump and live up to that potential.
However, a QB that misses 1 out of every 3 games is not going to help our team, no matter how good he could potentially end up being. One of the things Croyle had to prove this year was that he could stay healthy and in the first game of the season, he goes out with a 2-4 week injury. That’s not good for the team.
i dont undertand
why everyone keeps saying “Croyle hasn’t looked spectacular yet”
How can we fault him for not being spectacular? I mean, you expect good and can only hope for spectacular.
Naming my son Brodie Damon
He Hasn't Looked Good Either
Much less spectacular. The point is that he hasn’t demonstrated yet that he’s good enough to be an NFL starter and because he always gets hurt we simply can’t rely on him to ever do that.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
i guess
i just disagree with your perspective on what he’s shown
as far as durability, im with you
Naming my son Brodie Damon
In Either Case
We can probably concur that he’s a poor bet to be our quarterback of the future. Even the most talented QB isn’t going to do you much good if he can’t stay on the field.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
yeah
im just more blindly hopeful he’ll somehow manage to stay healthy.
idk pretty naive of me but i want it for the kid as chiefs fan, as a bama fan, and as a dude who likes to see other dudes that seem to be good guys on or off the field succeed.
Naming my son Brodie Damon
I'm all for giving him a chance...
but he’s gotten a chance and failed, over and over and over again. In 2006 we yanked Huard for Green and it fucked us. Last year Huard was the only one who won a game. Yesterday, Brodie went down (AGAIN!) and we nearly came back. See a pattern here? Huard continues to be the best QB on the squad. You can keep drinking the Brodie Kool-Aid but I pay a lot of cash for my season tickets and would like to see win or two this year.
Huard for Green fucked us?
Huard played well down the stretch. He did exactly what he was supposed to do. “Manage” the game with few mistakes and let LJ do his thing. We made the playoffs that year. How did that fuck us?
by Joel Thorman on Sep 8, 2008 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions
yep
thats why i think Andrew Zow, Tyler Watts, John Parker Wilson, and Jay Barker are ALL legitimate proffessional QBs.
Naming my son Brodie Damon
This will have to wait till...
Brodie’s next start. Its time to call it a night for today.. Good night folks.
lol
ultimately youre right.
hopefully croyle will come out in two weeks weighing a muscular 245 lbs and go 19/21 for 394 yds and 5 tds, no pics and a FG.
can we all agree on that?
Naming my son Brodie Damon
We Could Always Wish For That
Of course if you were to wish in one hand…
:)
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
As bad as we played...
… we were 5 yds away from taking the SuperBowl runners up to OT. I think the D especially has to take heart from that considering how much the Pats scored last year. Even without Brady they have a line we should be jealous of.
Blame my wife!
correction
we were one D.Bowe meat-fisted-butterfinger-drop away from taking the Super Bowl losers to OT.
by Ochophosphate on Sep 8, 2008 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Did anyone really expect...
Croyle to be an NFL QB? Honestly, I did you? I was as willing as the rest to give him a shot because, hell, what else do we have going? But seriously, from the second he was drafted all I could think was “meh.” Some of us realized this last year, some are still in denial, some delusional folks still think he may be the chosen one. He’s had a chance, and he has failed repeatedly. The Chiefs are better off with Huard, Culpepper, Harrington, Simms, or a long shot far fetched option like Quinn or Vick (he will be out soon). Brodie never was and never will be a legit NFL QB.
The only player on that list
I wouldn’t take over Croyle might be Vick.
And it’s not related to the prison sentence. He’s simply just not an NFL quarterback. Same boat as Vince Young, in my opinion.
Vick may be beter suited for the Brigade.
On another note, two thumbs up to my canceled class tonight.
Vick Is Horrible
Terrible QB…I wouldn’t take him or Croyle.
Culpepper was the most attractive option on your list. Simms and Harrington have been terrible, and it’s not like both haven’t had their shots.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
I love Culpepper in the silver and black.
Almost as much as I loved Aaron Brooks. But something tells me that he and Bowe could make some noise.
Vick could be dangerous on the run with our less than ideal line.
Scrambling Quarterbacks
Generally decline steeply at about age 29 unless they’ve developed into good passers. Vick was a terrible passer and he’ll be 29 when he’s released…not to mention he’ll have been out of football for at least two years (assuming the NFL will reinstate him immediately, which is not at all certain). I wouldn’t want him on our team as anything but a third-stringer.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
this comment
invalidates your opinions on professional quarterbacks.
Based off of talent shown in collegiate careers, Croyle showed infinitely more potential to be succesful in the NFL than Tebow has.
TEBOW
CANT
PASS
If you force Tebow to be one dimensional and rely on his arm, youve beat him and youve beat him bad.
Naming my son Brodie Damon
You're nuts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lNeKnfPIuI
Who did Brodie beat in college? Or did he just have a lot of moral victories? Tebow is a proven, consistent winner.
Offensively
Who did Croyle have? No one after Prothro got beat, and please dont say DJ. His coaches (all of the different offenses he had to learn) were for the most part abysmal offensively.
Tebow is surrounded by coaching genious (the only coach he had) and the best talent America’s high school football hotbed has to offer. The comparison is wonderfully unfair.
Naming my son Brodie Damon
and
lol at that video, if some of those passes were well thrown, that video would be even more impressive. how many times does he throw it low on a slant or post route? Or behind on a corner?
Naming my son Brodie Damon
I see a lot of WR's in that video
-having to slide and/or slow down to catch underthrown balls
-having to turn to their backside shoulder to compensate
-not getting YAC because he doesn’t hit them in stride
Yes, there are good throws mixed in, but it was 50/50 at best.
Guess what, Vince Young threw for over 3000 yds and ran for 1000 in his last year (1st ever by the way). How is he working out as a passer for Tennessee?
I’m not a Tebow hater, but I think he is as much a product of his system as any of the other guys we talk about around here (Harrell, Daniel, etc).
by Ochophosphate on Sep 8, 2008 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions
and
oh look
croyle has a highlight video too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBj8J9qkh6U&feature=related
ps* who else wishes Prothro couldve stayed healthy and gone pro?
and if you want to keep looking im sure we can find one for Ryan Leaf
Naming my son Brodie Damon
Croyle's video
had far shittier music :D
by Ochophosphate on Sep 8, 2008 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions
furthermore
chris leak won as much in that offense as Tebow did once the offense was adjusted slightly to the player.
Naming my son Brodie Damon
Croyle
His completion percentage and number of games started weren’t anything but average. And those are the two stats that have translated from college to the NFL with some consistency.
by Joel Thorman on Sep 8, 2008 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions
There are two falsehoods in this little thread within a thread
A. Tebow can pass. Come on. You don’t throw 20 freaking touchdowns if you can’t pass, kids.
B. The system DOES have an impact. Trust me, the spread is going to inflate a lot of quarterbacks’ stock over the next five years. I say this as a Missouri fan who believes Chase Daniel has Golden Watermelon Balls of Fury that will destroy you all. He’s also going to be a HORRENDOUS 3rd round pick for someone. The spread is going to inflate a lot of numbers. Tebow’s probably a little overrated, but he’s a physical freak of nature…
unfortunately, this system, and by system, I mean the steaming pile of dung that Chan Gailey is currently trying to form out of the steaming, screaming, burning, rotting pile of dung that was last year’s offense, is not going to look for, nor reward a physically talented quarterback. Look at Herm’s history of QBs. He doesn’t really lean toward dominating athletes. He goes for people like Chad Pennington. He wants a guy that’s smart and accurate. Of course, the NFL has changed and you need a certain level of athleticism, and you need to let your quarterbacks express that. But then, I’m just saying that because I saw Aaron Rodgers, Kyle Orton, and Jay Cutler use mobility and improvisation to get wins for their teams. Silly me.
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 12:56 AM CDT up reply actions
It's no coincidence
Cutler and Rodgers, the only good QBs you mentioned, were both 1st round picks.
This league is becoming increasingly passing oriented. A competent quarterback is more valuable now than ever so I would say it’s worth doing just about anything to get your guy. We can’t settle for someone anymore.
by Joel Thorman on Sep 9, 2008 12:59 AM CDT up reply actions
You do realize
our coach is the entire reason Chad Pennington has an NFL career, right?
We’re not going to make mega-talent QBs a priority any time soon.
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 1:02 AM CDT up reply actions
for
4 yards or less. My problem is that high percentage, low yardage QBs haven’t proven to be effective in the way the league has evolved. I’m not trying to start a Herm argument, I’m really not. It’s more a matter of I really believe that the way the league has evolved, you need to be able to stretch the field, even if it’s with a QBs scrambling, like with Ben Roethlisburger, who I think is a gigantic piece of shit. But the guy crates matchup problems. I can’t think of a single QB Herm Edwards has ever had that’s created matchup problems outside of Trent Green, and he got Trent’s head blown off like JFK.
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 1:09 AM CDT up reply actions
See
it’s at this point that DJ is going to come sniping for me, like Charlie in the trees.
I blame that on the offense. And it’s the same offense we saw last year, the same offense I saw in New York. Which is short passes, three yards and a cloud of getting our asses kicked.
Brodie’s at his best when he’s rolling AWAY from danger, not standing in there. When he’s improvising and making plays with his athleticism, not terrified of making the wrong throw. I feel like we put such a fear of God into our QBS about not turning the ball over that we make them into targets.
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 1:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Old QBs
I want nothing to do with old QBs. This team is probably 2 more years away from being a great team for the next decade. We need a QB thats going to be around that whole time, not trying to break in a new QB just as the rest of the team is finally coming together.
2 more years away from being great
Assuming we actually do get a quarterback. Which, if the last 20 years says anything, isn’t a given.
by Joel Thorman on Sep 8, 2008 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Croyle
Unless you were basing your opinion of Croyle on his injury history, there is vindication for you. I still think he has the tools and ability necessary to eventually be a solid QB. The only reason I’m changing my thoughts on Croyle is because he can’t stay healthy.
What tools do you refer to?
That killer instinct to win a game? He certainly doesn’t have that.
He was a below average college QB in an overrated conference. All that translates to a shit pro QB.
I'll Disagree About Croyle In College
He was a slightly above-average QB in college in a difficult conference. He just wasn’t above-average enough to be a good QB in the pros.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
SEC is overrated.
Can’t hold a flame to the PAC-10. The PAC-10 just doesn’t get the constant reach around form ESPN.
Right.
That’s why USC is ranked #1 every year until they lose to such powerhouses as… Stanford. Give me a freaking break. There are two football conferences, the SEC and the Big 12. Everything else is peewee football.
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 1:21 AM CDT up reply actions
thats why everyon says big 10 & SEC
i think PAC 10 is a good conference, just not as good. i mean, theres a reason that ucla beat Tennessee. Then again, tenn is constantly overrated. When you get blown out by last year’s bama squad, chances are good you suck.
Naming my son Brodie Damon
Big 10 and PAC 10
have a few teams that do well on an annual basis. The conferences on the whole are weak. Wizzeak!!
If you took any of the teams that consistently dominate the Big 10 and PAC 10 and put them in the SEC (and I would argue the Big 12 now too) they would not post the seasons that they typically post. Yes I’m looking at you USC and Ohio State.
by Ochophosphate on Sep 10, 2008 1:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Also...
Does slightly above average translate into a pro QB? Most successful (and there are limited exceptions) dominate the college scene, which is why I want Tebow.
croyle
was the best QB in the SEC that year, except for MAYBE Cutler.
SEC is far and away better than Pac-10, and the Pac-10 is a damn good conference. SEC, especially defensively, is just better than the Pac-10 and to debate that is some major homerism.
As far as Tebow, the TROY UNIVERSITY TROJANS (only 6 yrs in D1) shut down Tebow’s passing game last year in the second half playing against Florida’s full starting line up. The only reason he threw 3 td’s early was excellent field positioning as a result of blocked punts.
When the Troy Trojans can effectively eliminate your passing game in your own house, your not as good as people think you are. And thats coming from a Troy alum.
Tebow puts up big stats because no one can either eliminate his running threat or keep pace offensively. That will happen in the NFL and Tebow will be exposed as a purely collegiate QB.
Eric Crouch should still be in free agency, right??
Naming my son Brodie Damon
As far as 2006 PAC-10 QB's...
are concerned. I’d take Nate Longshore , Kellen Clemmens, Trent Edwards, Dennis Dixon, John David Booty.
God the list of higher performing west coast QB’s goes on and on, and on, and on, and on. But oh that ESS EEE SEE speed, can’t forget to overvalue that. Sorry, I don’t buy into the ESPN/CBS hype.
kellen clemmens suck
and i never said the Pac-10 doesnt put out good talent. I like edwards and Dixon was a favorite of mine.
the SEC is just better.
but this isnt a collegiate forum
Naming my son Brodie Damon
Yet Clemmens has an NFL victory as a starting QB.
say what you want about Brodie, he has proven to be a loser in the NFL.
that victory thing
doesnt instantly make someone better than another.
phil simms has won 10 more games than tom brady, does that mean he’s a better qb?
i certainly dont think so
Naming my son Brodie Damon
No, It Doesn't Translate
Which is what I said if you bothered to read my comment.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
What exactly did Croyle do wrong?
He got hit pretty hard on three plays that I saw. I am sure there were a few more. D-Bowe cost us the game yesterday. Croyle was 11 for 18 with 88 yards. If it weren’t for all of those easy bread basket drops before he was hurt it may have been different. We couldn’t run the ball to save our life either.
Our line wasn’t good yesterday. Our quarterbacks were getting knocked down all day. As the year goes on we should improve on that. All the QB’s mentioned above had a ton of chances and are all a waste of time. We should have made a legit run at getting Derek Anderson.
Ha!
He was good from about week 2 to week 8. His completion percentage isn’t anything to write home about and he threw 19 interceptions last year.
by Joel Thorman on Sep 9, 2008 12:43 AM CDT up reply actions
And what did Croyle do wrong?
He’s 180 pounds and looks like a twig. Not his fault (well, I guess you could argue that it is his fault), but placing blame doesn’t do any good either way.
by Joel Thorman on Sep 9, 2008 12:44 AM CDT up reply actions
What does that have to do with yesterday????????
Nobody mentioned our all world receiver looked like Sammie Parker yesterday and our line looked like SE Missouri States.
What does that have to do with yesterday?
Umm…because Croyle was injured. Again.
We can’t continue to blame others for Croyle’s injury history.
Past performance is the best indicator of future performance and Croyle has shown that he simply can not stay on the field.
by Joel Thorman on Sep 9, 2008 12:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Okay
Past performance is the best indicator of future performance and Croyle has shown that he simply can not stay on the field.
His injury history goes back to high school. And then the same thing in college. Then the same thing in the pros so far.
Huard lasted what, 10 games last year? And he played 8 or something the year before that before being taken out for Trent Green, not injury. Croyle has come out of 3 games in his first 7.
by Joel Thorman on Sep 9, 2008 12:54 AM CDT up reply actions
I guess the question I have
is whether or not there’s a quarterback that WON"T get injured with our o-line. Look at what’s happened to us since 2006. Green-severe injuy. Huard-injury. Croyle-injury.
Again, I’m down with looking elsewhere because it’s a dog eat dog world and Croyle’s been yelping and not biting.
But I’m starting to think there’s not a quarterback outside of Brett Favre circa 2000 that could withstand the punishment our offensive line is subjecting our QBs to.
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 12:59 AM CDT up reply actions
At some point
You have to stop making excuses for Croyle. Maybe he doesn’t know how to take a hit. Maybe he’s too small. The facts remain that he has a pretty bad history of injury and has barely made it through half the games he’s started.
If nothing has changed in the last decade then why would they now?
Again
I’m not making excuses for Croyle. I’m all in favor of pursuing Simms, and hell, even J.P. Losman out of Buffalo is worth a shot.
But we’re all thinking “Man, our quarterback can’t stay healthy” instead of “Man, our offensive line is getting all our QBs injured. Maybe we need to run Shotgun more often.”
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 1:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Simms and Losman
might be worse because they have been given more time than Croyle to prove that that they are below average QBs.
But worse
Because he’s had more time to prove that he’s a below average quarterback.
At least with Croyle there’s a slight glimmer of hope that the last 7 years haven’t been any indication of what he’ll do in the next 7.
So wait, primetime
are you saying we SHOULD or SHOULD not work out Simms and we SHOULD or SHOULD not give up on Croyle? What’s your suggestion? Not being pushy, really want to know.
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 1:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Simms, no way
Not interested. The guy hasn’t even played football in 2 years so who knows where he’s at.
re: Croyle – I want to give him the year. I hope he makes it, I really do. But what I’m saying is that the odds are stacked against him because he has never stayed healthy for an extended period in his football career.
Surely
you’re not advocating sticking with Huard.
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 1:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah
but it’s not like we’re going to find some awesome talent out there. Losman was competing for the starting spot and had some bright spots, much like Simms. Let’s not forget that Simms has QB’d playoff games and at least has the heart to keep coming back. Besides, it’s a temporary fix regardless.
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 1:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Don't think Simms was ever in a playoff game
Like UC said earlier, they lost the game in which Simms injured his spleen. Good > Heart
And his “heart” in coming back was just plain stupid.
Oh yeah
My bad.I keep thinking Simms was in a playoff game because Tampa keeps slipping into the playoffs.
I don’t know, I just think there are worse ideas that taking a flier on him.
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 1:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah
The worse idea might be JP Losman.
I have no idea what to do about the quarterback situation. Preferably I’d like a 3-4 year veteran who won’t need the learning curve as dearly as a rookie.
Okay
sounds like you’re a Tim Rattay man.
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 1:33 AM CDT up reply actions
Haha
My eyes are in San Francisco. How quickly can we get Alex Smith? Shoot, his injuries might be career bending than Simms.
Except
for Smith being out for the year.
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 1:35 AM CDT up reply actions
ive noticed
his respect level has skyrocketed recently. i do like the dude. he and brodie would be tight i think.
like JD and turk
Naming my son Brodie Damon
The fact
that that’s true makes me want to vomit.
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 1:38 AM CDT up reply actions
You know what makes me want to vomit now?
Up until 2006 I was a huge Byron Leftwich fan. In fact, I’ll take that a step further, I wanted Leftwich in here at the beginning of last season over our other options.
I’ve since changed my position.
I know
I really hope you knew that was sarcasm and I’m not a big Alex Smith guy.
It’s funny…Mike Nolan drafted Alex Smith over Aaron Rodgers. 3 years later? Oops…
Injuries
He tore his ACL in high school. Seperated his shoulder and had two cracked ribs his sophomore year and still only missed one game. His junior season he tore and ACL. Those aren’t injuries that have to do with size.
We can agree to disagree on that
But when will we stop giving him chance after chance even if they are “freak” injuries?
After this year
I think everyone was in agreement that this year was sink or swim. It’s clear that the Chiefs management have had less patience and that’s why they’re scheduling meetings which is good. But if Brodie comes back, he deserves a chance to compete this year. Maybe only this year. But at least compete.
I don’t know, I think a lot of us are sticking with him because otherwise, we’re just completely lost on offense.
But galvanizing a “Fire Brodie!” campaign may not help us. Which is frustrating, because I firmly believe that Damon Huard should not be receiving a paycheck from the Chiefs, but the more I’m thinking about it, I don’t know if I want to subject anyone else’s body to our O-line.
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 1:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Croyle will get this year
He’ll get the rest of the year. And that’s fine with me. If he works out, then that’s great. But the odds are pretty well stacked against him.
The problem with a real competition is that Huard would beat Croyle out. I think most of us can agree that there’s really no question about that.
Huard only has experience on his side...there is no more upside.
Huard is as good as he’s ever gonna get, plus I think he’s starting to regress. Also, the guy is just as injury prone as Croyle, albeit that its not the types that would take him out for several games, but enough to limit his effectivenss.
Come on Huard beat out Croyle? did you see that pass to Webb on 3rd and long? Did it seem to take forever to get there? If the DB wasen’t 10 yards off that could of been picked off. Huard filled in nicely, but again not enough to win the game. Who cares who dropped what, win loss is always the QB’s fault right? thats why Croyle is not going to be much of a QB because he’s 0-6 right? But the knock on him is definitely the injury issue, absolutely no doubt. Everything else is as much the teams loss as Croyle’s.
What about the duck he threw up for grabs in double coverage? Thought the guy was 12 yr veteran, and forces the ball in there taking that chance when the emotional momentum was clearly swinging our way. What a let down, that stung.
Tebow? Guys come on he doesn’t even play like a QB. He looks like Brian Urlacher playing Corner. Ya he’s got some skills to play there, but something don’t look right. Plus he’s a Junior, so if he doesn’t declare, were back to hoping that we have another top five selection in ‘10. The draft guys predicted that the QB’s in ’09 will be slim pickins. So if we wanted one we should of taken one this year.
But the guys in office decided to give Brodie the vote of confidence, and not take one……
Been reading all your post and agree with most of it when dealing with Brodie not being able to stay healthy. Heck I also felt upset that he got hurt AGAIN! I say give him another go around when he returns.
Although, IF Brodie gets hurt again during the course of the season, I think its time to not only move on without Brodie, but also with guys making the decisions to not draft a QB.
by aPacificChief on Sep 9, 2008 2:28 AM CDT up reply actions
I bet if you polled this site
The overwhelming majority would agree that in a legitimate quarterback competition Huard would beat Croyle. He has out performed him in every aspect of the game.
Croyle had the job handed to him.
Agreed
The problem is we don’t have anything better at the moment. I was hoping we would have taken a shot at Derek Anderson last year. Not sure who there is to draft that is pro ready next year. Huard is about as mobile as an oak.
There will be people to draft next year
We’ll have a shot. But will we take it (assuming Croyle doesn’t work out)?
Not big on going after Derek Anderson – he hasn’t really proven anything. Same with Quinn but his college statistics are more enticing, particularly because he played a pro offense with Weis.
That's a big concern for me
Is if Herm undervalues offense and the QB position so much that he’s not willing to address it in the offseason. Honestly, we’re in QB hell.
Someone tell me how much Vermeil sucked again, quick.
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 1:29 AM CDT up reply actions
growing up a browns fan
made me realize that ten win seasons are perfectly fine
Naming my son Brodie Damon
Vermeil
With the way he handled the team you would have thought Carl was retiring right along with Vermeil. They made a last ditch effort to make a run and unfortunately it hurt us.
I'll withhold comment
on this matter until December.
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 1:34 AM CDT up reply actions
yup
I give him till December.
DJ will of course say I never gave him a chance. And there’s a ton of time for him to turn it around. It’s only week one. But God, we look lost right now, and this thread proves it. We’re debating Tim Rattay versus JP Losman versus Brady Quinn for God’s sake. We are the damned.
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 1:36 AM CDT up reply actions
I still think Quinn will be good
If he ever gets a shot.
And he’ll be ready, too. He signed an incentive-laden contract that was based on playing time. Oops, maybe he shouldn’t have held out because he would be the starting quarterback right now.
Can we really evaluate
any quarterback with this offensive line? I’m down with pursuing other options because Brodie can have all the potential in the world (and I do believe he has great tangibles, which of course mean nothing in a Herm Edwards offense. That’s not a criticism, per say, it’s just a fact. Herm Edwards offenses almost always rely on intangibles. ), and it wouldn’t matter, because our line is pretty much a bunch of guys pointing to our quarterback.
I mean, what if we bring in Culpepper and he tears his knee when he gets creamed? Or Simms loses another internal organ? Or Harrington gets two concussions at once?
I’m not protecting Croyle, I think it’s time to look elsewhere, but there are two flaws in your arguments.
A. Damon Huard is not a good option. He should have been released in the offseason and every second he spends on this roster, the longer we spend toiling in mediocrity that much more.
B. Just because you were “meh” and our offensive line and wretched joke of an offense have underproduced doesn’t validate that initial opinion.
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 12:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Good points
It’s just that Croyle has a history of injury so he’s on a shorter leash when it comes to that.
by Joel Thorman on Sep 9, 2008 12:57 AM CDT up reply actions
History of injury
Yeah, but I guess the next question is “Should we really invest money in someone else just to get them injured so we feel better?” I mean, I started today thinking the same things mentioned in this thread and others, the same things Chris said. “Croyle’s not lookng like he can stay healthy.” Which is true. But I mean, if we bring Simms in and he gets blasted and goes on IR, have we accomplished anything?
I say we trade for the fat kid out of Kentucky. Let’s just go for the most indestructible QB we can find.
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 1:05 AM CDT up reply actions
I guess I'm saying
that it’s a lost cause.
Brodie may or may not have the talent to be a starting, winning, play-making QB in this league, but we’ll never know because we have a double edged sword. He’s getting injured because he’s injury prone and because our offensive line would get anyone injured.
I’m just not sure if spending money on someone else that’s going to get injured does us any good.
I’m really to the point where I have no hope for our offense.
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 1:14 AM CDT up reply actions
What was Huard's injury in the Denver game last year?
The game where Brodie first played?
And the Trent Green injury was two years ago. We have completely overhauled the roster since then.
Look I just believe
that if a series of events continues to occur, that the pattern is indicative of something. Pennington had injury issues in New York. How is that teams have starting quarterbacks that play year in and year out and yet we’re talking about four starting quarterbacks in four years?
Huard had a concussion. From getting hit in the head. Again. Hard to rely on a quarterback’s high football IQ when you’re causing him brain damage on every play.
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 1:25 AM CDT up reply actions
That said...
I think the Chiefs overachieved on Sunday. Short of Bowe (who we should hold to a higher standard, especially if he wants to run that mouth), the team played well and we should be optimistic going forward.
Off topic
Aaron Rodgers is looking pretty good against MIN. 12/16 for 138 and a touch. Plus 34 yds rushing.
Yeah and Jared Allen has been kept in check.
Big contract, less production? Damn that is a familiar story in KC!
I’m with tony G’s grandma-chiefs got screwed by the refs at the end of the game. there was obvious pass interference. not saying chiefs didn’t have their chances-“the show” dropped a very catchable pass that would’ve tied the game.
but am i the only one that was yelling at the TV after the last offensive play by the chiefs near the goal line?
Def. not
it was very very obviously pass interference…that was bad….
Also…the playcall there was awful…but that is beside the point and has probly been heavily debated already…
Um.
Guys. We should never have been IN that game. Does ANYONE here think we would have hung if Brady stayed in the game? Randy Moss looked like he was playing keepaway till Brady went down, and still ended up burning us.
Let’s not play the “We got screwed” card when the only reason we hung is that we accidentally took out the reigning MVP. It wasn’t dirty, but come on.
Agreed
I’m not upset about the game at all. In fact I’m pretty happy with it.
It’s going to be very difficult for most Chiefs fans to remember that we aren’t going to do anything this year.
But the original post that this massive thread started on is reflective
of the fact that man, we knew we’d be bad, but…
I mean, Christ, DJ was the one guy I knew I could come here to make me feel better about things, and it’s like my worst fears are true so far. Not only do we suck, which I expected, we’re not competitive. Everyone’s looking at how close we were. But were we? Can we expect our offense to produce points when it needs to?
I’m going to treat the next X weeks as the final feet to the bottom of the well. Hopefully once we hit rock bottom, if we haven’t already, we’ll rebound.
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 1:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Draft Gramm Harrell
We need to draft Gramn Harrell out of Texas Tech in the later rounds and hope to get some kind of adequate FA QB in the off-season or Chris Simms, etc. now.
Brodie has the fear of
Herm in him. Croyle is so afraid of making a mistake, he forgets to play football. As far as his injury goes, depending on the severity of the separation, he will not be back in two to three weeks. That is wishful thinking on someone’s part. if he does return in two to three weeks his shoulder will not be in any shape to throw the ball. Throwing too quickly after this injury will kill Brodie’s arm. Believe me, I speak from experience having had a separated shoulder. If Brodie returns too quickly, he will have no arm strength, he will suck, and his career will be basically over. If he is allowed to regain strength and movement in the shoulder, he will potentially return to his pre-injury form.
Holy Jesus
We’re back to Damon Huard 4 MVPZ. Guys, seriously, PLEASE try and remember what the beginning of last year was like.
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 10:32 AM CDT reply actions
I was for a short time
My thinking was that we were a playoff team the year before and anything can happen in the playoffs.
Obviously my evaluation of our team wasn’t exactly spot on.
NO!
Primetime! Don’t say such things! The only reason we didn’t make the playoffs is because we switched to the whelp, Croyle! If Damon had stayed in the starting position, and if the rest of that miserable defense did their jobs and scored five times a game, we would have won the SuperBowl. But now that Damon has returned to his rightful place, the AFC shall tremble beneath his moderately paced, perfectly sculpted foot! Victory is at hand, fellow acolyte!
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 9, 2008 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Penalties ruin great teams
Did anyone else at least feel at least an ounce of comfort knowing that with as young of a team as we had on the field Sunday that there were only two or three penalties? How often does a team this young play with that much discipline. I look forward to the near future — assuming this is a sign of things to come.
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