5 Questions for the New England Patriots
Time for the weekly question exchange with Pats Pulpit.
MaPatsFan will answer five of our questions and I'll do the same for their site.
Previous Know Thy Enemy posts are here.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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Is there any reason for you
to be afraid of a big letdown, with such a awesome run for you guys last year?
by Eric Allen on Sep 3, 2008 7:30 AM CDT 0 recs
My question is:
The Pats defensive backfield is pretty weak and it may not hurt them this week, but down the road how much do you think this will hurt you? Do you just plan on winning 42 37 every week?
by JasonM on Sep 3, 2008 7:48 AM CDT 0 recs
Do Pat's fan think Belichick is as big a jerk as everyone else thinks?
If so, do you excuse it because he wins? How many losses make it inexcusable?
by NJChiefsFan on Sep 3, 2008 9:06 AM CDT 0 recs
He's just like school in the summer time...
no class.
“Of all the shameful and shameless things Belichick has done in the course of his career, that one second of disgrace should follow him around for the rest of his life.”
by NJChiefsFan on
Sep 4, 2008 11:31 AM CDT
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Just like Thanksgiving Break...
no class.
“But why does it have to be an either/or? Why can’t a model sports franchise like the New England Patriots have a coach who is both excellent and at least somewhat of a decent guy? Why can’t Bob or Jonathan Kraft call him aside and teach him a modicum of class?”
by NJChiefsFan on
Sep 4, 2008 11:50 AM CDT
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What does class have to do with anything?
I don’t understand why anyone cares if he has class or not. What difference does it really make? He coaches a football team of grown men not a Pop Warner team. Is he a warm and fuzzy guy? Hell no. Is he a great coach with a long history of winning? Yes.
And when did this ‘after game handshake’ become the gauge for defining someone’s level of class? I have never seen baseball managers shake hands after the final out of a world series and no one questions their class.
To me, this whole class thing is silly. Get over it.
by bostonpPete on
Sep 5, 2008 12:41 AM CDT
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Welcome Pete
Thanks for taking time to post some responses on this site. Great to have exchanges like this. I’m going to take a crack at the importance of class. Just in general. Not going to say whether Bill Belichick has it or not.
Football and the NFL are games that take place within the bigger context of “life.” As fans, we attend games and come to sites like this to escape life for a bit and immerse ourselves in a world of entertainment. We feed off the raw energy that comes from enthusiastically backing our favorite teams and players as they go through the ups, downs and unknowns of competition.
I think the competitors should explore every possible way to win a game within the constraints the governing body has determined the rules to be. Whether those rules are about holding, pass interference or activities off the field like videotaping, gambling or obeying the laws of the country.
Not everything should need to be handled with a 15 yard penalty, 4 game suspension or being ostracized on a sports television network. Leaders are expected to work for the betterment of the game. If the game ever degenerates to the point that rudeness or even playing to intentionally injure someone becomes an accepted practice, then professional football will cease to be a worthy source of entertainment. The fame that accompanies the men in this arena will showcase behaviors we do not want to emulate in society. Or impress upon young people who are forming their foundation of what constitutes acceptable behavior.
Players and coaches may not want to be role models. They can respond that they’re just playing football and didn’t ask for that responsibility. Well, the large numbers of people who watch the games create an advertising medium that generates the millions of dollars that pay their salary and give them the opportunity to make a living at playing a game. There is a responsibility that comes with the privilege of playing games organized by the National Football League.
A modicum of class and the self-policing to abide by the rules (i.e. not cheat) are the foundation that the NFL and all other segments of society require to continue and contribute to a better quality of life. The level of class and sportsmanship we expect in the games our society plays will either enhance or erode the way fans go about the rest of their lives. If illegal videotaping or behaviors viewed as classless are seen as the way to win on the weekends, those behaviors become an excuse to do the same at work. In a marriage. In other parts of our life.
To forget that football is a tiny piece of a bigger stage is to risk sliding down a slippery slope. One that begins to make excuses for inhumane behavior. For rudeness. For acts that lack class.
If you click on my screen name, I think you’ll see that I normally like to talk Xs and Os. Strategy. Or sometimes lame attempts at humor. So I sincerely hope my humble opinion does not come across as superior or condescending. It’s just my opinion. One that believes class and character matter. And for what it’s worth, I thought the way you worded your opinion showed class. As do nearly all the comments made among the community of people who frequent this site. Kudos and best wishes.
by sunny D on
Sep 5, 2008 9:19 AM CDT
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Well said.
Thanks for stopping by, bostonpPete!
I feel like it matters a lot, and sunny D addressed far better than I could have. It would bug me to no end if he were my coach and I want to understand if it bothers Pats fans or not.
by NJChiefsFan on
Sep 5, 2008 9:34 AM CDT
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Post-game handshake history
Jim McCabe of the Boston Globe wrote an excellent piece regarding the history of the post-game handshake in the NFL, and have I reprinted some of it here for your viewing pleasure. I thought it interesting, if not informative, and hope you will too.
In [the past], competitors rarely stuck out a hand. Not the players and certainly not the coaches, from Halas and Curly Lambeau, to Lombardi and Paul Brown, and to legends who followed. What’s more, they were never questioned, either.
During a Hall of Fame coaching career with the Minnesota Vikings that garnered four Super Bowl appearances and 11 division titles, [Bud] Grant never wavered. “I never shook Halas’s hand or Lombardi’s hand after a game. That was my volition.”
“Tom Landry didn’t feel he had to go across the field to shake hands,” said the Cowboys’ longtime director of player personnel. Yet you will uncover Noah’s Ark before you find any evidence of media condemnation of Halas, Lombardi, Brown, Grant, Allen, Ewbank, Howell, or Landry for not shaking hands after a game. What’s with that? Why does the media analyze the Belichick handshake and rip him if it’s deemed lame or insincere?
The fact that a mere handshake becomes a story that frequently casts Belichick in a bad light makes it more personal to [Jerry] Glanville, now 66 and the head coach at Portland State, but still a fan of the Patriots’ coach. “We were on the staff together [special teams assistants for the Detroit Lions in 1976]. We were bachelors together,” said Glanville. “We skied together. We hung out and went on vacations. But when we coached against each other, we never ran over to swap spit.”
“Really, it’s an irritation more than something you want to do,” said Jimmy Johnson, who coached the University of Miami and the Dallas Cowboys to championships and works now as a pregame analyst for Fox NFL Sunday. “No [coach] wants to do it.” Johnson concedes he did it on most occasions, though begrudgingly (“You don’t want to be rude,” he said), but laughs about those times when he didn’t. Against Eagles coach Buddy Ryan, for instance. “I didn’t do it the time he put the ‘bounty’ on my kicker.” And with Bill Parcells, Johnson said he would merely wave, “but it was no big deal.”
“Don’t think for a minute that all 32 coaches love each other,” said Clary. “But they don’t need to shake hands to prove they have respect for each other.”
[Former Commissioner Paul] Tagliabue said that there was not going to be a rule against postgame handshakes and fraternizing. In fact, the league wanted to see it, thinking it made for a better image. NFL’s senior vice president of communications, Greg Aiello, wrote in an e-mail, “As a league, we encourage good sportsmanship.”
So does that mean Halas, Lombardi, Brown, Allen, Landry, and Grant, among others, were devoid of sportsmanship? They didn’t shake hands after games. Not at all, according to Clary. He said Halas and Lombardi were good friends, but while they would embrace one another off the field, never would they shake hands after a game. Their competitive nature wouldn’t allow it.
Belichick? He does shake hands, but apparently not in a manner that meets with the media’s approval, so he’s branded a bad sportsman. What gives?
[Many others prefer no handshake after the game] within the insular world of professional football, where it is accepted as a rough and brutal environment that demands a physical and mental commitment that isn’t for the faint of heart. If handshakes aren’t exchanged, so be it. “If we’re worried about things like [a postgame handshake], then we’re worried about the wrong thing,” said Glanville.
Keep the faith!
by Marima on
Sep 5, 2008 5:47 PM CDT
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This argument itself is a little much for sports to bear.
What I mean by that:
Stealing signs in baseball: gamesmanship or classless?
Cutting, roughing or loading the ball?
Pine tar a little too far up the bat?
Football: Un-caught holding on the o-line?
Messing with the injury report?
(This list is almost endless, and it goes back to the old days of coaches not exchanging game tape.)
Hockey: too much curve on the stick
Too much tape on the stick.
My point is that the line is variable, and that the outrage should match the degree of the infraction. And that, in any case, we take this whole sports thing way, way too seriously. The level of invective hurled at BB and the Patriots, as well as the fine levied, was completely disproportionate to the infraction (no, not a crime) committed. What most Pats fans object to is that lack of identity between the wrong done and the punishment exacted and condemnation hurled.
Especially considering that the most egregious aspects of the transgression were pure speculation, based on no evidence, unproven and unfounded. No tape of the Rams walk-through, no editing and subsequent in-game use of the other videos. In most cases the team filmed didn’t even show up again on the schedule for that year.
Finally, the absurd arbitrariness of the rule itself: If you had a guy in the stands doing exactly the same thing, it would be perfectly legal. A man waving his arms in full view of 60,000 people has no expectation of privacy.
The real “wrong” in the situation was lying about it. Twice. So that’s not classy. But the whole thing was blown utterly out of proportion.
Now, you don’t like Belichick because he doesn’t shake hands with some coaches whom he unrepentantly doesn’t like? OK. You don’t like him because he isn’t sorry for taping? Sure—he’s unrepentant about being completely competitive. Maybe he isn’t the gentlemanly sportsman we feel the viewing public deserves. Or maybe the press is tired of having to deal with his unhelpfully dry and impenetrable press conferences, so they feel entitled to stick it to him when they have the chance.
But I don’t think this is any special window into the man’s character. Competition in the professional football takes place out side the rules as a matter of course. When players or coaches are caught violating, they’re penalized.
Our cultural tendency to turn every instance into little morality plays is unrevealing about the parties involved. But it says volumes about the vapidity of our entertainment media, who are so fundamentally insecure about the sheer insignificance of their jobs that they need to pump up every moment with portent so great that when legitimately transcendent things happen, they have no way to describe them.
It’s a game. That’s it. It doesn’t mold young men. It doesn’t give life lessons. It can’t solve our problems and it rarely reveals true character. Rather than forgetting that football is a tiny piece of a bigger stage, I suggest we remember that it is merely tiny, merely a diversion, merely an entertainment.
The further in that direction we can travel as a society, the more in order our priorities will be and, I suspect, the more simple joy we will be able to take in our games.
As Mr. Sloan always says, there is no "I" in team, but there is an "I" in pie. And there's an "I" in meat pie. Anagram of meat is team... I don't know what he's talking about. --Shaun of the Dead
by JohnHannahRules on
Sep 5, 2008 6:02 PM CDT
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Agree and disagree
As I stated up front, my comments were not about BB. Frankly, I don’t even know what “the handshake” is all about. Couldn’t tell you who was involved or when it happened. So I agree with the principle that punishment should fit the crime. I don’t really have an opinion as to where either of those stand with regard to the Patriots.
My point was that class does make a difference. And I would stick with the point that unfortunately, the image cast by NFL players does mold too many young men. I see it in a positve vein at Fellowship of Christian Athlete camps. I see it at the camp that Herm Edwards runs each summer in California. As a person who works with high school people, I also see the imitation of negative behaviors. I would like nothing more than to believe football is a tiny diversion. For you and me, that’s probably true. For too many 14-24 year olds, the players are nearly idols. I appeciate the coaches and players who accept the responsibility that comes with their positions.
by sunny D on
Sep 5, 2008 7:09 PM CDT
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The PARADE wants to know
With the offensive line cracking and events like Junior Seau (being ?), we even read an article suggesting Ty Law would be a good move for the Pats (capital of sports journalism indeed), is there a sense that this is the decline of the Roman Empire, or is this just a burp in the road?
Also, I have theory Bellichick wants to treat this like a pre-season game and not risk Brady’s tender foot for more than a series or two. What say you? That secretive? That arrogant? Is it arrogant?
by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Sep 3, 2008 10:00 AM CDT 0 recs
More Draftnik stuff.
- Is Jared Mayo right now justifying that 10th overall pick? It’s hard to say an interior linebacker in a 3-4 justified such a high pick. Most people feel it was a reach, but has he shown tremendous ability to justify it? Speaking of linebackers, how has Shawn Crable looked on the edges? Will Bo Ruud make any inroads? Is this the sign that Belichek is going younger at the linebacker position?
- Does Wheatley and Wilhite look to be an immediate contributor in the backfield?
- Does Kevin O’Connell look overwhelmed, as many thought he would be? Or have you seen enough flashes of promise to know he’s got a future?
by Direckshun on Sep 3, 2008 4:23 PM CDT 0 recs
Back-up Quarterback
How worried are Pats fans not only about Brady but who is the lucky player to replace him in the case that he is out for an extended period of time?
by primetime 07 on Sep 3, 2008 4:34 PM CDT 0 recs
I second this question.
What happens if tank steps on his foot on accident and they are force to use a quarterback that could not lead a TD drive in the preseason. I also think this would be the Chiefs best chance at winning this game.
by TXroyal on
Sep 4, 2008 5:06 AM CDT
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One more
How do Pats fans respond to those that call them “cheaters”? Do they have a point (even if it is actually a small part of the game)?
by primetime 07 on Sep 3, 2008 4:36 PM CDT 0 recs
Cheater, no. Greedy, yes.
Most Pats fans just ignore those as jealous comments from uneducated haters, which I believe bears some truth. The word "cheater", to me, is a very strong word for what they were caught doing and fans of other teams like to use the word to goad Pats fans.
In reality they were never actually accused of cheating but instead were caught ‘breaking a rule’ in order to gain more information, which may or may not have been used to cheat. I know that may sound a like a naïve comment, but you would be naïve to think they were the only team to ever employ these kinds of practices. In fact NFL history is filled with stories of teams breaking rules; be it actually cheating, steroid abuse, artificially pumping up the volume or whatever and this has mostly been seen as teams ‘trying to gain a competitive advantage.’
Now, that said, personally I believe what happened has sullied what might have been considered one of the great runs in NFL history. You see the Pats for years were the laughing stock of the NFL, with a history of ineptitude to rival the worst sport teams in history. Then in the 90’s things turned around and they morphed into the dynasty that we see.
But, all is not lost for the Pats reputation. With a few more years like last year (even without the rings) and this cheating talk should all disappear.
by bostonpPete on
Sep 5, 2008 12:24 AM CDT
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Wes Welker
Is he expected to have a similar season to last year now that he’s not working out of the slot? And how much will “sore ribs” hold him back?
by JayrodT on Sep 4, 2008 12:45 PM CDT 0 recs
What the hell happened this preseason?
I’m not talking about the offense, obviously Matt Cassel did nothing to impress… I’m talking about the 1st team defense that got shredded by nearly every opponent. Even Tampa Bay came out and smoked the 1st team Pats D. Are finally seeing the repercussions of having aged veterans fill the D year after year? Or is this just another play by New England to make everyone think they’re worse off than they are?
by Ochophosphate on Sep 4, 2008 3:05 PM CDT 0 recs
I have no idea.
They aren’t that old on the D anymore—certainly not along the defensive line. My theory is that they’re just really tired. They’ve played more games than any other team in the league over the last 8 years, and the end of last year was a blow.
We’ll see.
As Mr. Sloan always says, there is no "I" in team, but there is an "I" in pie. And there's an "I" in meat pie. Anagram of meat is team... I don't know what he's talking about. --Shaun of the Dead
by JohnHannahRules on
Sep 5, 2008 6:03 PM CDT
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