Should They Stay Or Should They Go Now?
So, if you're a Chiefs fan, you don't need me to tell you how painful it's been to watch this young team perform thus far this season. Fact is, the phrase "worst team in the league" gets thrown around a lot, but me and Herm Edwards know it's all-too-applicable to the 2008 Chiefs.
The question is, who are the worst players on the worst team in the league and are there any players worth keeping?
Keep 'Em
In the interest of not sounding like a complete homer, I'll try to keep my gushing to a minimum. But no promises! I like these players even if some of them have, thus far, very little experience.
- Brandon Albert, T:
Wow, were the Chiefs right about this kid. Not only has he never played tackle before, but he was on the other side of the offensive line as a guard at UVA. And how has he performed? Well Richard Seymour got a goose egg against him in Week 1. Derrick Burgess got one against him in Week 2. How 'bout Week 3? Glad you asked! The Falcons had enough respect for Albert and so little respect for Daemon McIntosh that they moved John Abraham to LE for the game. He got 2. Those were the only 2 sacks the Chiefs allowed. Now, don't get me wrong, he's struggled at times. But Brandon is gonna be very, very good for a very long time. If you have a DVR, do yourself a favor and replay every offensive snap just to watch him. BTW, I'm not sure moving him to guard and drafting another tackle next year wouldn't be a serious waste of talent. - Brandon Carr, CB:
It's early but I sure like this youngster. He's one heckuva tackler for a cornerback and he doesn't make many mistakes in coverage either. He may turn out to be a better fit than Flowers for the Chiefs simply because of the defense Herm runs. - Jamaal Charles, HB:
Speed kills and, though I hate the 'Horns, I must admit he's got it in spades. I'm not sure he's shown the "softness" people said he had in college either. - Mike Cox, FB:
Good-not-great blocker and better than expected receiver. Hopefully he'll continue to mature in both areas. - Brodie Croyle, QB:
I'm not sure he's going to be able to keep healthy but, when he is, he's our best option...by far. That's not to say I don't hope the Chiefs draft another quarterback in '09. Because Brodie is just never available. - Glenn Dorsey, DT:
He's very raw and he's not really playing within the system yet but I like his physical tools. - Turk McBride, DE:
Boy, did it look like this guy was a bust last year or what? Then he moves to end and he shows some real flash. IMHO, he should be starting on the right. - Rudy Niswanger, C:
Rudy's another youngster with potential. Again, if you have a DVR, watch him. Let's hope he puts off med school for a couple more years at least. - Jarrad Page, S:
He was drafted 4 rounds after Pollard and yet he's twice the safety. - Dantrell Savage, HB:
Alright, I'm an Oklahoma homer. But I don't care. I ♥ Dantrell Savage. Why he's not starting in place of B. J. Sams is a mystery around which I simply can't wrap my head. Why is Herm so willing to go with youth at every position but return man? Drummond last year and now Sams? Argh! - Herb Taylor, T:
Should be starting on the right in place of Daemon. I get it: line continuity is important. So, put Herb on the right and don't take him out again. At least we know he has room to grow. - Tank Tyler, DT:
Isn't it nice to know that we may have actually fixed our tackle problem? Again, these guys are very young but, save one, they've all got worlds of potential. - From the "Duh" Column:
D-Bowe, Colquitt (who sure looked like he was out-kicking his coverage against the Falcons), Donnie Edwards, Tony G, Kolby Smith, and Brian Waters.
Take 'Em or Leave 'Em
- Alfonso Boone, DE:
Needs to be playing at tackle. And even then, he should only be part of the rotation. - Ron Edwards, DT:
See Alfonso Boone. - Damon Huard, QB:
He drives me nuts when the blitz is on but he's a serviceable backup. - Patrick Surtain, CB:
Methinks his days is numbered. Still, he's not the colossal failure that Ty Law was. - Jeff Webb, WR:
He's got solid hands I guess. Shouldn't be anything other than a fourth or fifth option though.
Fagedaboutit!
- Tamba Hali, DE:
This hurts. It really does. I like Tamba. I like his enthusiasm, his work ethic, his history. But he is not a viable RE. He needs to be on the other side and he needs his partner on the right to be very, very good. - Napoleon Harris, LB:
I'd seriously take Napoleon I over this guy. And it doesn't even have to be Mr. The First, Excellent Adventure Edition. I'd take the dead version...seriously. - Derrick Johnson, LB:
Great athlete...not much goin on upstairs though. I think he'd be fine if he was playing in a system where consistently jumping three yards beyond his gap was desirable. Unfortunately, not so much. - Lawrence Johnson, HB:
Is anyone surprised that we're having so much trouble with LJ? Dude makes Wade Walker look stoic. And when he's on the field he reminds me of Donnell Bennett. Who? Exactly. There were three plays last Sunday that reminded me of LJ-circa-2005. The rest of the time he was running headlong into a mountain of OL man-meat. Look, I get that the right side of the offensive line consists of Urkel's hyperthyrodic baby sister and a safety-orange traffic cone; I do...really. But I don't care about that. The vast majority of the time, watching Larry run just makes me hyperbolically apathetic, which just happens to be a pretty apt description of his running style. - Adrienne Jones, G:
It's really awesome that Clark Hunt is liberal enough to start a fat chick on the offensive line. But, if this is the cost of progress, I say repeal the 19th Amendment and bring back the bustle. We can start by throwing one on Adrienne; I'm sure it would really accentuate her figure. - Daemon McIntosh, T:
I used to be agnostic, but watching this guy provides no doubt about the existence of incubi. It's scary, you know. I was under the apparently mistaken impression that these evil bastards only screwed sleeping women. But I think it's pretty obvious they've evolved to cornhole entire offensive game-plans as well. - Bernie Pollard, S:
I honestly think Bernie Lomax would be a more consistent tackler. - B. J. Sams, KR:
Obvious fellatiotic humor aside, Mr. Sams is not the answer at kick returner. He just sucks (I couldn't resist). - "It's" Pat Thomas, LB:
Clearly the worst of a bad lot, Pat Thomas wouldn't know a gap if one bitch-slapped him right between the peepers. All humor aside, he blew more against the Falcons than a rolling Linda Lovelace at a drunken frat rush. Anyone have Adam Sandler's celly? - Demorrio Williams, LB:
Really, he's not that bad an option on 3rd-and-long. Beyond that, he should be wearing a ball cap and fetching Gatorade.
Jury's Still Out
- Brad Cottam, TE: does look gangly in pads;
- Jean-Philippe Darche, LS: isn't an action star;
- Devard Darling, WR: can be caught from behind;
- De La Puente, Brian, G: will translate his name for you;
- Brandon Flowers, CB: couldn't tackle a blow-up doll;
- John Paul Foschi, TE: will never take your confession;
- Will Franklin, WR: has forgotten how turf looks;
- Marques Hagans, WR: won't ever be known as "Slash";
- T. J. Jackson, DT: did drink "Jesus Juice";
- Brian Johnston, DE: does remind me of Jimmy Wilkerson;
- Maurice Leggett, CB: can't ride this ride;
- Martin Ingle, QB: can hold a mean clipboard;
- DaJuan Morgan, S: would start ahead of Bernie Lomax;
- Nick Novak, K: isn't a douchebag of liberty;
- Dimitri Patterson, CB: won't be starring in a Comedy Central special;
- Barry Richardson, T: could take a grizzly bear in a death match;
- Wade Smith, C: is no relation;
- Tyler Thigpen, QB: didn't actually start did he?;
- Erik Walden, LB: doesn't know Henry David Thoreau.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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28 comments
Comments
I disagree with a lot of this
I don’t really know where to start, so I’ll just leave it at that.
by Vince D on Sep 24, 2008 12:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
where's the fun in that?
let’s have it! fire away!
by Chief Running Bare on Sep 24, 2008 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
< I get that the right side of the offensive line consists of Urkel’s hyperthyrodic baby sister and a safety-orange traffic cone;>
Classic
by Shawn on Sep 24, 2008 1:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I Agree
with the take them or leave’em segment completely. Give LJ a break, I know he can be a pre-madonna at times, but the guy is one of the best power backs in the league. Give Hali a break too, he will get better on that side. I think the problem with him is that he lost a ton of weight. DJ can be inconsistent at times, but he’s a solid linebacker maybe not a pro bowler.
by chiefsfan1384 on Sep 24, 2008 1:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I hope you're right...
…about Hali and DJ. As far as LJ is concerned, I’ve just run out of patience. He’s a professional and he should play hard even when the team is losing.
by Chief Running Bare on Sep 24, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hali
I think is hitting his ceiling, as sunny D suggested in another thread. That’s unfortunate if that’s the case because he was a 1st round pick.
by Joel Thorman on Sep 24, 2008 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also Welcome To AP
This post was very well done.
by Joel Thorman on Sep 24, 2008 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks!
…for the warm welcome!
by Chief Running Bare on Sep 24, 2008 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Branden Albert...
I don’t want to read this article when you start with misinformation about Branden. #1 He played LT in HS and was a highly touted recruit coming out of prep school. #2 He played LG not RG in college. #3 They did line up Abraham against Albert on some of the plays last sunday and he did struggle somewhat. To give BA a hall of fame bid already is extremely premature.
Brandon Flowers is a prototypical Cover 2 corner.
How could you say Duh for Kolby Smith although he gets less playing time than Jamaal?
And your comments on Derrick Johnson, Tamba Hali, and Bernard Pollard… Players are only as good as the system they play in. If the coaching is extremely poor than the players will underperform.
I honestly think this is one of the worst posts i’ve read on AP.
by Dono on Sep 24, 2008 3:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Misinformation, huh? You’re a conspiracy theorist aren’t you?
Seriously, calm down. You disagree with me. It’s not the end of the world.
Now to your points:
Albert
Hyperbole won’t get you anywhere with me new friend. Nowhere in the post did I give Albert a “hall of fame” bid. I said he’s going to be very good. I also admitted he’s struggled. But, high school or no, he spent his college career at guard. If I’m not remembering the side of the line correctly, so be it (the footage I remember had him on the right), it doesn’t change the fact that he’s having to make a transition: the last time he played tackle was against pimply high school kids. Now he’s going against professionals. If you’re saying there’s no difference, that’s your deal.
“Brandon Flowers is a prototypical Cover 2 corner.”
Thanks for the in-depth analysis ;)
Duh
Because Kolby Smith has actually started games and has, at the very least, proved himself a capable back-up.
DJ, Tamba, and Pollard
True enough. But, contrary to the cliche, there are bad students. Otherwise, EVERY player would succeed if the teacher was good and EVERY player would fail if the teacher was bad. If that was the case, why would we even pay players? Just get a good coach and a bunch of schlubs could win the big one. Case in point: I’m sure Derrick’s received plenty of coaching over the last few years regarding over-running his gap…but he still does it…ad nauseum. And I’m sure Pollard has received plenty of coaching with regards to leaving one’s feet to make a tackle…but he still does it…just about every time.
Silly Platitude
I honestly think that people who can’t stand to be disagreed with usually have to resort to rhetorical attacks to make themselves feel big and bad.
by Chief Running Bare on Sep 24, 2008 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remember
Constructive and intelligent criticism is one of the hallmarks of AP. Agreed with most of what you said (except for the last line, of course).
by Joel Thorman on Sep 24, 2008 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
It’s hard to provide intelligent criticism to an article that is poorly written and full of misinformation.
by Dono on Sep 24, 2008 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can you say "cop out"?
I can…
by Chief Running Bare on Sep 24, 2008 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BTW
this isn’t an “article.” it’s one man’s opinion, sprinkled with what he hoped was a little humor. don’t take things (especially a game) so seriously.
by Chief Running Bare on Sep 25, 2008 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought I knew more about the team...
…however your analysis is off on a lot of players compared to my opinion. That isn’t the point of my post to disagree with your analysis of individual positions but to reiterate the point made above about the coaching and system they are working within.
It is very difficult to judge any players’ individual talents (with the exception of the QBs – Of which none of these guys would be a starter on any other team in the league) when they aren’t given the proper tools to work with. Watching the Chiefs lately is frustrating as there is no clear game plan week in and week out. They showed some signs of life against the Falcons, but in the end, they weren’t beat by better players, but by, in my opinion, a much better and more organized system. Keep in mind the Falcons are rebuilding as much or more-so than the Chiefs and they are 2-1. Rookie QB, Rookie coach, new RB, new system…. 4 key elements the Chiefs should have had a distinct advantage.
It is no secret that I am not an Edwards or Peterson fan. The former is a better support guy, and the latter is living off the success of his only real solid coaching hire in Marty Schottenheimer. Marty will always be tagged with not being able to win the big one, but man was it exciting watching him get there. And he may still win it. Since he left, we have been subjected to coach’s who aren’t strong enough to challenge the system. Peterson would never hire a Belicheck, Parcells, or even a Cowher now because they all are very strong and will challenge his decision making which is ultimately what did Marty in. Peterson is nothing more than Al Davis light.
Even I thought there was a small chance that Herm may do something with the talent he has, but after week 2, this has to be the lousiest coached squad I have ever seen in Arrowhead. Too much talent and unfortunately, we don’t have the right people in place to evolve it.
Many of the players on your Fagedabout it list would work well in the right system and other teams would move them into their starting line-ups tomorrow I believe. And since Huard is not on that list, it is obvious to me that our opinions have a wide chasm between them. (not enormous as he is take it or leave it).
I believe you would be eating your words on players like Hali and Pollard if you saw them in a system like Denver or Dallas has. They need the chance to succeed… BTW – I do like your analysis on a lot of the O-Line and while I won’t DVR them, I will pay better attention to a couple of the players you mention based on your comments.
by KCAl on Sep 24, 2008 6:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
logical, well thought-out, completely reasonable response
nicely done!
you’re correct that it’s difficult to judge these players considering the current conditions. I don’t disagree that some of the players on my fagedabout list would perform well in other systems, but, the fact is, clark hunt is fairly obviously committed to herm’s system. as much as it hurts to say, i think primetime 07 is pretty much correct: hail has hit a ceiling. beyond that, i’m open to…and hopeful…that i’m completely wrong about the others.
thanks for the intellectually-sound response.
by Chief Running Bare on Sep 25, 2008 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disagreements
Donnie Edwards – Great player in the past, going down hill fast. Im pretty sure this will be his last year.
Tamba Hali – There hasn’t been enough time gone by to really fairly judge him on the right side, but it sure doesn’t look good so far. He needs to go back to the left side where he did pretty good.
LJ - LJ is not a Barry Sanders type RB that can make something out of nothing. He NEEDS good blocking in front of him and he’s a great back. Without blocking though, he’s not explosive enough to get himself out of trouble. The answer though, is to fix the damn line, not get rid of the RB.
Bernard Pollard – People forget that Pollard came out of college as a young Junior. He’s in his 3rd year in the NFL and is only 23 years old. I think he is immeasurably improved over last year and I think he will continue to improve as he matures.
by ChiefDJ on Sep 24, 2008 6:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Can't really disagree...
…with anything you said.
by Chief Running Bare on Sep 25, 2008 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree with DJ
Pollard has been a very active safety so far this year (probably from the lackluster LB play) compared to last and he is starting to show that he can be very good someday.
by TheQ on Sep 24, 2008 7:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I sure hope you're right...
…but the fact is, he misses way too many tackles. hopefully gunther can work with him to fix it. as of right now, i’m not hopeful.
by Chief Running Bare on Sep 25, 2008 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not players fault
It’s the coaches fault…they build the system, the players just follow it
AD
by ali_djoo on Sep 25, 2008 12:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Again...
…then why don’t teams spend tens of millions of dollars on coaches and then just hire my kid sister? Who needs Pro-Bowlers when games rest solely on the coaches?
Look folks, the coaches shouldn’t get off scott free here but there are 22 guys that have to actually execute the coaches system for this team to win. You’re not actually saying that you think Pat Thomas and Napoleon Harris and Damion McIntosh and Adrian Jones would start on any other roster in the NFL are you?
Patience is a virtue. Carl Peterson has spent his entire career straining for mediocrity with band-aids and ace-wrap. This year, Clark Hunt said, “enough” and we started from scratch. But you can’t build a whole team from scratch in one year. And you can’t build a whole team through the draft in one year…even with 12 picks. So, let’s evaluate the job they’ve done so far building from within in the, what, 8 months since the process began:
Dorsey, Albert, Flowers, Charles, Cottam, DaJuan Morgan, Franklin, Carr, Richardson, Kevin Robinson, Johnston, Merritt
I’ll go you one further. Let’s take a look at every draft since Herm got here:
Bowe, McBride, Tyler, Kolby Smith, Medlock, Herb Taylor, Michael Allan, Hali, Pollard, Croyle, Maxey, Stallings, Web, Page
I count four players who are no longer on our roster. Now clearly there are a few players on this list whom some would define as flat-out busts. I’d personally give that label to Medlock, Croyle, and, to a lesser extent, Pollard. But seriously, compare that to the three previous drafts before that:
2004: Derrick Johnson, Colquitt, Thrope, Grigsby, Hodge, Svitek, Long, Kilian, Parquet
2005: Siavii, Kris Wilson, Fox, Samie Parker, Jared Allen, McIntyre, Samson
2003: Larry Johnson, Kawika Mitchell, Battle, Brett Williams, Jordan Black, Wilkerson, Montique Sharpe, Willie Pile
How many of those players are still in the NFL? How many still play for us? The majority of players in those years didn’t work out for us. OTOH, the majority of players drafted since Herm got here are either playing well or still have lots of room to grow.
The ship has been sinking for several years. But it seems like you guys were perfectly happy with perpetual mediocrity. I’ve been hoping the Chiefs would rebuild for a decade because 9-7 leaves a bad taste in my mouth and pretenders that go 13-3 and then get booted out of the playoffs are even worse. So let’s give the new ownership the benefit of the doubt here. We’re only three games into the rebuilding process for pete’s sake!
by Chief Running Bare on Sep 25, 2008 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
On LJ...
I want to like that guy, but Vermeil said it best that occasionally he needs to, “…go change his diapers.” or something like that. When he is on, he is the man, but I liken him more to Corey Dillon than Barry Sanders. Too bad more people couldn’t handle themselves with as much class as Tony G. He has to be one of the classiest players ever to hit this league.
On another post I stated that it would be nice to see Tony G get the opportunity to play on another team for a title since the Chiefs seem to be forever rebuilding. It sounds like he wants to do that too as he doesn’t see this going anywhere under the current regime, but isn’t demanding it. I say we see what someone is willing to give and get something for him. Unless of course we will have real management next year then it would be great to see him stay.
Heard on Fox Sports this morning that the Chiefs are talking to the Browns about Brady Quinn. That would be great to at least get a good prospect at the position… Doubt it happens, but at least if it is true it is Carl’s acknowledgement his system may be broke. Still don’t like him though… : )
And one last comment, it seems that Clark Hunt is kind of taking the behind the scenes approach his dad had in that he lets his managers manage. I love that about them, BUT I think the new spot-light and public pressure will prevail eventually and we will see a regime change. He can’t be that blind to the fact that Carl is a hack at best in what he is doing. As I said above, there are other teams like the Failcons (who have never had back to back winning seasons) who are rebuilding as well, moreso than the Chiefs, and they wouldn’t have lost to the Raiders, let alone be blown out in week two, not to mention looked pretty good in week 3 against us.
And the Raiders are as broke as a team can be, and to be competitive or winning has got to give you something to measure yourself with.
One thing Carl is the best at now is being the worst at what he does now that Millen has been given the well-deserved 5 years too late boot. That’s my 2.5 cents… Out…
by KCAl on Sep 25, 2008 8:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you on Tony G
He’s not getting any younger and he’s been a spectacular player for us longer than we deserve. I think it would only be right to ask him what he wants and then work like hell to give it to him.
I also agree that even a rebuilding team shouldn’t be playing like the Chiefs did the last two weeks. One caveat though: Huard started (and didn’t finish) the first one and Tyler Thigpen started the other. I’m not trying to say the losses were their fault but all those three-and-outs hurt the entire team.
by Chief Running Bare on Sep 25, 2008 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LJ
You never mentioned that ever since LJ came to town the team cohesivity has slipped every year. The guy is a bad apple. Coach Vermeil kept him in check, Coach Edwards doesn’t, another in a long list of Edwards poor skills as a coach.
by FanSinceLen on Sep 25, 2008 9:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

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