But as soon as the Chiefs began playing games again, something changed. It was even evident during the preseason. Perhaps some expected rebuilding to be a painless process that wouldn’t involve any sacrifice. Maybe they understood the Chiefs would lose some games, but figured every loss would be a moral victory in some way, and that rookies like Dorsey, Albert, and Flowers would all look like future Hall of Famers in the process.
That sounds good and all – but I don’t buy it. Why not? Because this isn’t the first time I’ve heard that excuse.
over 3 years ago
ChiefDJ
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Right
That offseason they brought in the unheralded Mike McCarthy as their new head coach and began rebuilding the team.
So by that rationale, we should start being more optimistic once they fire Herm Edwards and bring in a coach who isn’t an NFL retread like Herm.
Good point.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Of Course...
…Ted Thompson hadn’t been in charge for 14 years and going nowhere when his rebuilding project started, so Green Bay’s situation really isn’t comparable to Kansas City’s situation at all.
Carl Peterson was in charge of rebuilding this team in the 1990s and couldn’t get them to a Super Bowl. He hasn’t come close to matching that early success for over a decade, despite having at least one very capable coach in Vermeil. So there is no reason to believe he’ll be capable of turning it around now.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Except...
…Carl isn’t in charge of this rebuild. By all accounts, he fought it. Herm wasn’t able to do this until he won something of a power struggle by getting Clark’s support.
The Green Bay comparison is very apt, it’s just different in that Herm had to wait 2 years mostly doing things Carl’s way before finally getting the opportunity. But once he got it, the Chiefs are doing things very much the same way the Packers did.
A Little Reality Check
Carl Peterson is the general manager of the team. That means he actually is the one in charge of the rebuild…whether Herm offers input on it or not. He’s the one responsible for hiring and firing Herm, after all.
By all accounts, he fought it. Herm wasn’t able to do this until he won something of a power struggle by getting Clark’s support.
Rumor and speculation. At no point have the Kansas City Chiefs ever come out and said that Herm Edwards is responsible for drafting or that he has been given responsibility of any of the areas of Carl Peterson’s job description.
Hell, by that logic, that actually bolsters the argument that Peterson should be fired, because he’s actually unimportant to the rebuilding effort of the team.
The Green Bay comparison is very apt
It isn’t…at all. The Packers’ change came because they changed out their GM and brought in a different way of thinking. We’ve still got the same GM who ran the team back into the ground. They also brought in a head coach who, though unproven, offered a chance at improvement. Herm, on the other hand, is doing exactly the same things here that killed his team in New York before we hired him.
Herm had to wait 2 years mostly doing things Carl’s way before finally getting the opportunity.
You mean the two years where he was actually more competitive than this year? Teams do not get younger so that they can get worse…they get younger so they can get better. This team has gotten worse with “Herm calling the shots” (not that I believe for a second that Peterson is a bystander) and that’s a factor of coaching first and foremost. It’s not even the players I hold responsible…their coaches did a rotten job of preparing them to play against one of the worst teams in the league. There is no point lower than that.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
If you want to deal out a reality check...
…you might want to focus on actual reality.
Carl Peterson is the general manager of the team. That means he actually is the one in charge of the rebuild…whether Herm offers input on it or not. He’s the one responsible for hiring and firing Herm, after all.
Umm… no. After the season, when Clark Hunt did a tour of media interviews, Jason Whitlock asked him point blank if the only reason that Carl still had a job was because Clark wanted Herm to have a chance to do things his way. Because if Clark brought in a new GM, that GM might want to hire his own coaching staff.
Clark said yes.
Carl Peterson has no stroke to fire Herm Edwards, because Clark wouldn’t allow it to happen. And Carl is not running this rebuild. Carl’s nothing but a lame duck. Haven’t you noticed that Whitlock doesn’t even call him “King Carl” anymore? He’s now “The Artist Formerly Known as King Carl”.
Why? Because he’s no longer the King.
Rumor and speculation. At no point have the Kansas City Chiefs ever come out and said that Herm Edwards is responsible for drafting or that he has been given responsibility of any of the areas of Carl Peterson’s job description.
There is no “rumor and speculation” that Herm has won a power struggle with Carl. Seriously, have you been on a trip or something for the last 9 months? Go back and read the Whitlock article I mentioned. Go read the Star article from a few weeks ago called “This Could Be Peterson’s Last Stand With Chiefs”. Here’s a link:
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/story/761067.html
But without any of that, can’t you just tell by the way the Chiefs are doing things? Stocking up on draft picks, making the draft their top priority, playing young players. When has Carl EVER done that during his 20 years here? Isn’t it obvious that Carl isn’t the one making those decisions?
LOL, this is like arguing with someone who insists the Earth is flat.
Hell, by that logic, that actually bolsters the argument that Peterson should be fired, because he’s actually unimportant to the rebuilding effort of the team.
Again, if a new GM is hired, that guy will want to make his own decisions on coaching. If Clark wants Herm to have a chance to run things his way, the easiest way is just to keep Carl around and take away some of his power.
It isn’t…at all.
Yeah. It is. Once again, please bail out on your completely incorrect notion of Carl somehow being behind this rebuild. Herm spent 2 years here doing things Carl’s way. Now there have been obvious and drastic changes to the way the Chiefs are operating.
You mean the two years where he was actually more competitive than this year? Teams do not get younger so that they can get worse…they get younger so they can get better.
They get younger so they can get better… OVER TIME. It isn’t immediate. Good lord.
Younger Players Only Improve With Good Coaching
I don’t know what game you were watching…but the problem against the Raiders wasn’t a lack of talent. It was a horribly flawed gameplan that the Chiefs’ personnel couldn’t execute and a group of players who looked so utterly unprepared to play that they got 300 yards run up on them by a team that had a horrible offensive line and that couldn’t throw the ball.
Getting younger I’m fine with. Having players make lots of mistakes I’m fine with. Having a young team that falls apart against inferior opponents like the Raiders because the coaching staff doesn’t have a clue how to put together a competent game plan, on the other hand, is unacceptable.
It’s not the young players who are the problem…it’s the head coach who can’t put together a decent game plan and the GM who brought him in. They’re the problem. And whether Carl “lost a power struggle” with Herm or not doesn’t matter to me, because HE BROUGHT HERM HERE, so my reply to that is that is that if Carl isn’t the one running the team anymore then it’s the perfect reason to fire them both.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
As For Hiring A New GM
Again, if a new GM is hired, that guy will want to make his own decisions on coaching.
Good. That’s what the GM is supposed to do. Assuming that it’s really Herm pulling all the strings here, I have no idea why anyone would think it’s a good idea to have your coach be both your field general and general manager. Because that’s been a recipe for disaster pretty much every time it’s been tried. Don Shula’s teams went in the tank once he took over coaching and GM responsibilities. Mike Shanahan’s teams have chronically underachieved since he was allowed to bring in his own players and be de facto GM. Mike Holmgren went from great in Green Bay to terrible in Seattle when he was coach/GM, then back to great again once he was stripped of GM responsibilities. Head coach and GM are both full-time jobs and when you have two full-time jobs you generally do a half-assed job at both…and all of the coaches I named were a hell of a lot better at coaching than Herm Edwards ever has been.
So I’m fine with canning Carl and bringing in someone who’ll hold Herm’s feet to the fire if he puts out any more efforts like last Sunday’s. That’s Herm’s problem to deal with, not ours. Because if Herm’s being both coach and GM I’ll say it now…this team is fucked because he’s not a good enough coach to pull it off.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
im confused how
all of a sudden, the fans have become the enemy.
the players are the enemy.
the opposition is the enemy.
everyone except the people in charge.
Naming my son Brodie Damon
That's What Happens
When leaders refuse to step up and accept responsibility for their performance.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
its a sad show
just another example of how sports imitate life in so many ways and why, because of that, sports should be such a big part of the lives of our youth.
watching the adults bicker and politic as a youngster in my little league and pop warner teams taught me a lot about adults and how, uh-oh, theyre not always right.
Naming my son Brodie Damon
They aren't the enemy, they are waffling
The absolute worst thing you could do is change the plan midway. That’s what the fans want to do and it would lead to disaster.
Its gutcheck time for the fans. A lot of them aren’t passing the test.
man....I missed out on all the fun.....
Dude these past two post by ChiefDJ drew alot of heat…..
I see where DJ is trying to go with this with the last two postings, and the interesting points made by the others to counter.
I think its safe to say that we wouldn’t be this upset if we didn’t care. I’ll add my 2 cents by saying this, Carl and Herm of course must take some of the blame with such a poor performance last sunday, no doubt.
I read an interesting post from another fan at Gretz’s website that put it very well, and in that quote our problems are summed up, and I found it quite humorous also.
“If you got a leak you don’t hire a guy who will become a plumber in 2-3 years, you grab someone who is already trained in the profession, not someone who has the potential to be a good plumber in time.”
THAT is the most definitely the fault of CARL and HERM! They knew our O-line was terrible, but addressed it with players who were basically discarded by other teams. They used the rebuilding explanation to cover up their mistakes with the recruitment of personnel. Who cares if Faneca is 31, and overpaid. We had this big HELP wanted sign in Arrowhead, and we went after sub par players, instead of proven contributors.
Lets forget the youth movement for the mean time, and ask ourselves if we have a few veterans on the wrong side of 30, but who can contribute to the formation of our team, wouldn’t that aid in the development of the youngsters? Some of the guys we drafted have the potential to be something in this league, but are labeled as being yet TOO RAW to contribute right now. WHAT! So we bring in a guy who is young but cannot play for another team because his skill are lacking.
The youth movement ultimately got our QB’s killed, and because of their (CARL&HERM) stubbornness to properly address the O-line, Croyle is hurt again. The same young QB who their future’s with the club rely on. Not only does their future with the club becomes questionable, but the development of our young offense as a whole is greatly affected because of their lack of interest in talking to older free agents who could have answered the short term needs.
Sometimes I get this feeling that Petersen is trying too hard to find the basement bargains free agents rather than making any attempt to bring in a player that everyone else seems to be interested in.
I’m not throwing in the towel on the season after just two games, but the whole team is in deep trouble if the O-Line continues to play like a Chinese fire drill. Forget about the development of our young team, because it won’t happen until the inadiquacy of th O-Line is properly addressed.
Bench McIntosh or just flat out release him, and play
Very Good Points
I don’t think Faneca was worth what we would have had to have paid, but somebody like Hartwig would have been. Or Jacob Bell. Or Jake Scott. But we didn’t go after any of those guys and now we’ve got one of the backups from last year’s line playing at center, the tackle from last year missing blocks on the other side of the line, and a guy who played for the team that almost got Herm fired in New York playing right guard for us. That’s how terribly Herm/Carl bungled the rebuilding of the line…they drafted two offensive linemen and brought in a bunch of scrubs and only one of them was able to beat out the guys from last year’s disaster for a job…and he’s not good either and he’s been playing in the league for 5 years.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
I'll Change That A Little
Two of them were able to get a job. So far Branden Albert is looking like he’s got the potential to be very good very soon. Barry Richardson, however, can’t even get playing time over a guy who can’t block at right tackle or a guy who’s not strong enough to play right guard…which is pretty much what you expect from a guy drafted in the 6th round.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
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