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Don't worry, I won't keep you off the wagon when the Chiefs start winning again

That's the kind of guy I am.  I don't hold grudges. 

Sure, I get frustrated to see people flip flopping and losing hope after just two games.  Many of the same people that were so excited to see Chan Gaileys new offense in the Bears game are now cursing Herm Edwards "obvious meddling", and I know that WHEN the offense gets on track, the credit will shift back to Gailey and everyone will assume that Edwards has somehow been cut out.  I get that people are that naive and want to stick with their preconceived prejudices.

Everyone knew before the season that the Chiefs were going to be a bad team, just like we all had a pretty good idea before the 2007 team.  We've gone from admitting that the Chiefs talent level was demolished by Vermeil's "Veteran Surge" push for the playoffs and poor drafting to just blaming everything on the usual scapegoats in K.C., Carl Peterson, the QB of the day and in more recent years, Herm Edwards.

How quickly so many lose sight of the big picture.  Of the "plan".  I understand.  It's easy to SAY that you're prepared to suffer through a 4-12 season for a better future.  Its a whole lot harder to LIVE through it. 

We saw an inkling of how many fans were on the edge when the Chiefs were roundly criticized for going 2-2 in the preseason, which should have impressed them.  We saw even more when the Chiefs nearly beat the New England Patriots, even though everyone expected us to lose by 30 or 40 points.  Oh sure, Tom Brady got knocked out of the game.  Maybe it would have been a lot worse if he had been in there, or maybe not.  We'll never know.  But even without Brady, we had the opportunity to defeat the team that are the defending AFC champions coming off a perfect season that has won the Super Bowl three times in the last seven years.  Brady is a great QB, maybe one of the best ever.  But he didn't do it by himself.  It takes a TEAM to win.

That's something some Chiefs fans seem to have a difficult time understanding.  The concept of needing a complete team in order to really be successful, because a lot of people seem to expect the Chiefs to be playing like the Patriots with their high powered passing attack and solid defense, even though more than half the team are rookies and second or third year players and a good percentage of the rest are holes plugged by whoever we could find to plug them because the team was left so devoid of talent by the previous coaching staff. 

How many teams can you name that have all but two players they drafted in the last three years still on their team with 11 of them starting?  NONE!  Because it doesn't happen if there is talent already on your team.  We have had good drafts, no doubt, but the reason all these players are starting and getting as much playing time as they are is because there was so little talent on the team to begin with.  We have some great prospects playing on ths team, but we also have a whole lot of players that would not be starting or even getting playing time on a more talented, established team.

I mean, come on.  Pat Thomas at middle linebacker, probably the most important position on the defense?  Hole plugger.  Adrian Jones, a failed Tackle converted to Guard?  Hole plugger.  Damion McIntosh, an injury prone mediocre LT moved to the right side for the first time in his career?  Hole plugger.  Devard Darling?  Hold plugger.

These are critical positions on the team that have place holders in them because even after 3 drafts in which almost every player drafted are either starting or heavily contributing, there are still enormous holes on this roster. 

But OH NO!  Poor play on the field is not the fault of the young inexperienced players or the below average place holders.  Its the fault of the scapegoats!  It's not the players fault that they can't open a simple High School Guard-Tackle running lane, its the playcalling!  It's not the below average WRs fault they can't get open, its the playcalling!  It's not the 3rd string QBs fault he more accurately throws to the opposing teams DBs than to his own WRs, after all, what do you expect out of a 7th round pick?  But its most DEFINITELY the coach's fault.

You have to learn to walk before you can run.  Until our offensive line can figure out how to block a 5 yard out to the TE without getting the QB killed, how can you possibly expect them to be able to hold long enough to throw a 40 yard bomb?  Until our young QBs can learn to not telegraph their screen passes, how can we expect them not to telegraph the 20 yarder?

Don't get me wrong, this is not an indictment of the players.  The young players are getting valuable experience that will make them better players.  Just look at Pollard, Tank and Turk; three players many were ready to give up on after bad rookie seasons; but though not Pro Bowl players, are vastly improved over last year.  The placeholders are there not because they are good players, but because they are a warm body that we need to fill the position until the next draft.  If they were that good, they wouldn't be placeholders.

I've never claimed Herm was the greatest coach in the world, but its preposterous to call him a "team-killer" because he took over a squad that was so old it turned to dust and so devoid of talent because of years of bad drafting that nobody really batted an eye when he cut 90% of the team in three years; and that that recreated team has struggled.  I know Herm isn't popular with a lot of people that loved the old Vermeil offense, even though that offense only led to a single playoff appearance in 5 years.  I know a lot of people want to replace him with a coach like Bill Cowher, who took 14 years on the most stable team in the NFL to finally win a Super Bowl, but people forget that too.  Or Marty Schottenheimer who people were trying to run out of town for five years before he finally resigned.  Both of those guys run a more conservative offense than Herm does.  Are they better coaches?  Yeah I'm pretty sure they are.  But neither of those guys could turn the work in progress the Chiefs currently are into a winner overnight and certainly not in the two games that people have given the Chiefs this year before giving up on them.

IF HERM WAS A GOOD COACH, HE COULD WIN WITH THE PLAYERS WE'VE GOT!

People predict we will go 4-12 or 6-10, but as soon as we hit 0-2, its time to throw the baby out with the bathwater.  THE PLAN ISN'T WORKING!  FIRE EVERYONE!

It's OK.  I won't draw a line in the sand.  I won't gloat when the seeds that have been planted come to fruition down the road.  I won't laugh at you for trying to rip the seeds out of the ground screaming at them to "GROW DAMN IT!".

I'll be right here, watching the seeds get watered, patiently waiting for them to sprout.  And when they do, I'll be patiently waiting for them to come fully into bloom.  It's just a matter of time.  Whether you believe the guy watering that seed is capable or not doesn't really matter.  We're going to find out one way or the other.

I'll be right here on the wagon waiting for you to climb back on and I'll welcome you with open arms when you return.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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Valuable Chastisement

Thank you Chief DJ for your words of perspective. I get mad at my daughter (21), but still love her and will not abandon her. It isn’t exactly the same, but I’ve loved the Chiefs a lot longer! I’m on the wagon with you on Tues through Sun. It usually takes me a day or two to get over the pain of days like last Sun…but I’ll always come back!

by TXChiefan on Sep 16, 2008 8:00 PM CDT   0 recs

Speaking as an insufferable prick

I can tell you that people are a lot more apt to listen to you if you’re not an insufferable prick about the points you make.

To be fair, most of the people going bezerk never said they’d sit through 4-12. They were the ones that have either been screaming for front office firings for two years or who foolishly expected to watch their team compete this season from their comfy near-New-York homes.

I’m trying to balance not calling for firings (which I’m not), while still saying that there are legitimate concerns with the direction of the team. Again, if we’d looked even slightly competitive, and trust me, even with the Patriots game, I don’t think we looked competitive, I’d feel better. If the line looked like it had any hope of cohesion, or if the quarterbacks looked like they were ready to make plays of if the offense looked like it was ready to mold its playcalling to at least accomodate if not mask the talent deficiencies. At the same time, I’ve said, it’s entirely possible that this week was the lowpoint, and that next year we’ll start the climb back up, while still losing, to improving. We’ve said that for the last few weeks/months/years/ but you’ve convincingly asked for patience and I’m trying to abide.

But really, in the beginning it came off as you knowing more about football than other posters, but this just comes off as someone who’s angry because the coach he’s defended has let him down and he wants to rail at the disbelievers. You’re praying to the rain gods and then blaming the drought on the faithless.

I say this not to personally attack you, since you’re one of the best writers on AP, which is why you were given contributor status in the beginning. But I mean, really, it would be better if you were to state that you understand where people are coming from with their concerns, instead of insulting people with self-righteousness. Again, I say this since most of the time, I insult people with self-righteousness, and it hurts my effectiveness.

You want to blame the players. But the coaches are the ones who bring in, work out, evaluate, train, and insert the players. You want to absolve the coaches of responsibility, but you won’t admit when they make mistakes in preparation, gameplanning, playcalling, or clock management. It hurts your argument when you ask people for patience, but won’t recognize the problems that need fixing.

But hey, maybe you’ll be right. I’ve said since we danced this dance last season that I hope I’m wrong, that I’m eating crow come December. It would just be nice if maybe, somewhere, I could see a fraction of the plan we were promised put in motion.

by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 16, 2008 8:05 PM CDT   0 recs

winner, winner

chicken dinner!

especially the part about people being more apt to listen to people who dont come across as megadouches.

Naming my son Brodie Damon

by troy145 on Sep 16, 2008 8:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Well Stated

Very tactfully put, Matt…I agree with everything you’ve said. I would have said something along those lines as well, but today I’m in a semi-foul mood and I felt like being a gi-normous prick back to DJ so I thought I’d just make fun of him instead for writing a pretty delusional and insulting column in response to one of my comments.

Nothing personal, DJ…but you kind of have it coming and personally I think you need to pull your head out of your ass and take a good look at where the Chiefs actually are this season before you start talking down to any of us about how unrealistic we’re being.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Sep 16, 2008 8:33 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It's so odd

being on the outside of one of these. It’s like a velociraptor watching a stegosaurus and t-rex fight.

That said, I’m glad we’re all holding together here at Chiefs’ nation. At least we’re all in this together.

BURN IT TO THE GROUND! LORD OF THE FLIES! ANARCHY IN WESTPORT!

by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 16, 2008 8:36 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I Liked The Rain God Comment

Very clever. You make good points when you’re not doing straw men on my Damon Huard position :)

You did note my free agency post today, right? I discussed my feelings on Huard’s future with the club :)

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Sep 16, 2008 8:38 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Don't think I called anyone unrealistic

Everyone can post their opinions here. You tend to defend the negative ones because they fit with your personal view, I will defend the positive ones. Just as you don’t want the doubters to feel ostracized for expressing their opinions, I don’t want the believers to.

I’m also pulling a MAWK. Purposely goading people to stir up a debate. I figured Matt would recognize that as well as anyone. :D

by ChiefDJ on Sep 16, 2008 10:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Actually

You called them flipfloppers for pointing out the obvious fact that Herm Edwards did a shitty job preparing that team to play and has for awhile. And you’re wrong.

I’ve never said that Croyle was a good QB…in fact I predicted he’d do little for the team. That happened. I’ve never considered Herm Edwards a good coach…I thought he was a questionable coach before and every game I’ve seen since convinces me that he’s even worse than I thought (and I mean Rich Kotite bad). I’ve never said that Carl Peterson was a good GM…I’ve consistently said that he does a terrible job of drafting talent and has for awhile and that the results of his last three drafts were being overrated by people desperately hoping that he’ll turn it around.

I’ve never flipflopped at all…I knew the Chiefs would suck and I was willing to accept that so long as they showed some progress. They haven’t. In fact all they’ve shown has been regression. And I made my feelings about what I’d do when that happens pretty clear as well. So don’t start lashing out at people who happened to be right about how bad the situation was just because you chose not to see it.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Sep 16, 2008 10:23 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

-1

You need to call people “douchenozzle” more and use more caps.

by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 16, 2008 10:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Fo Shizzle

My bizzle.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Sep 16, 2008 10:31 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Wow MAWK

Took that a little personal didn’t you? Don’t think I mentioned you by name anywhere.

I don’t think I know more about football than anyone else and I don’t think I said anything of the sort. Sorry you took it that way. I think what I was making pretty clear was that we cannot go all Chicken Little about the sky falling after every loss. The big picture is what must be kept in mind.

With all the negativity floating around, I want people to understand that ITS OK TO STILL BE PATIENT! Yes, you will be criticized for being a homer or being unrealistic as I frequently am. I’m fine with that. But just because the doubters will seize on every loss as proof of their point of view, does not mean that in the long run, it won’t prove to be what turns the Chiefs into the next dyanasty. Maybe it happens, maybe it doesn’t. The only way we know is to wait and see.

There can be no doubt that some people hold a double standard. You say I want to blame the players and absolve the coaches of responsiblity. That’s so far from the truth to be laughable. The players play the game, it is their job to execute the plays. Herm Edwards is not responsible for Dwayne Bowe dropping 4 passes. Carl Peterson is not responsible for Tyler Thigpen only completing 42% of his passes.

What people want to see is an exciting, dynamic offense. But the players we currently have simply aren’t capable of executing that right now. Is that the coaches fault? Well I suppose you could jumble around the players they drafted and draft more offensive players than defensive, but then you’re just pushing the holes from offense to defense.

I know people hate to hear it and we argued about it over and over last year, but its simply going to take time to get enough talent depth on this team to be competitive and that’s all there is to it. And it doesn’t matter who your coach is. Bellichick was a loser in Cleveland. Was it because he was a bad coach? No, not enough depth of talent to be succesful.

by ChiefDJ on Sep 16, 2008 10:09 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Wait

I didn’t see where MAWK replied and took it personal?

Lanier63 <——— old people stay confused

by Lanier63 on Sep 16, 2008 10:13 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You're right

I forgot that Herm Edwards didn’t bring these players in. They just appeared out of nowhere. Or worse, Dick Vermeil brought them in. Wily bastard.

by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 16, 2008 10:13 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Because I bought in

and look where it got me.

Again, it can turn around. But you’re really not being fair. You’re just sticking to your guns in the face of enormous evidence to the contrary.

by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 16, 2008 10:15 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You bought in and now

you’re bailing before seeing the fruition.

That’s all I’m saying man. Always stick to your guns. If you’re a doubter, thats cool. There’s certainly evidence to back that up.

I understand the plan and believe in it. I knew we were going to go through things like this and so I’m sticking with it. If I’m right, everyone will be happy. If I’m wrong, everyone can make fun of me, but I got no problem with that. I’m ready to take the chance.

I think I’m coining new labels.

Instead of negatives or haters or homers, how about:

Doubters- those who don’t buy into the plan
Believers – those who do

by ChiefDJ on Sep 16, 2008 10:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You're classifying people into two categories

how can you actually think this is a good approach to take? The world’s not like that, man, and neither is football.

I’m not bailing. I’ve said he deserves till the end of the year. But I’m not going to come out here and say we’re doing the right things when we’re clearly going backwards. That was the worst football game I’ve ever seen last week. That was atrocious. That made the Miami preseason game look like art.

You cannot say you knew it would be like this. Your fanposts are evidence of that. It’s clear that it’s surprised you how impossibly inept we’ve looked.

You want labels?

Desciples: You.

Reasonable people that want to look at the situation and analyze the good, the bad, and the enormous amount of ugly: everyone else.

by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 16, 2008 10:23 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Ummm
Carl Peterson is not responsible for Tyler Thigpen only completing 42% of his passes.

Actually he is, because he’s the one who put Thigpen on the roster when there was every indication that Croyle was a serious injury risk and no indication that Thigpen was a decent NFL QB.

Peterson stocked the roster. When the players he brings in aren’t able to do the job he requires of him, then it’s his fault. That’s what being the boss is all about.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Sep 16, 2008 10:16 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

No, see

Herm is only responsible when something good happens. If Herm turns this thing around, I’ll post a weekly crow eating FanPost where all I do is go over the things I was wrong about.

by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 16, 2008 10:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I thought

Herm was only responsible when something bad happened? Now Im confused.

by ChiefDJ on Sep 16, 2008 10:21 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh, it's easy to get confused

since none of us can remember the last time Herm did something that looked right since the draft.

by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 16, 2008 10:24 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That's Only Because

He hasn’t done much of anything right since the draft. He just runs his mouth and never says anything while his teams get stomped at home.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Sep 16, 2008 10:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Did you

really need to say “at home?” I think you could have stomped at “get stomped.”

DJ, I see where you’re coming from, but you’re refusing to see where everyone is coming from, just simply acknowledging that they are coming from somewhere with no intention of trying to understand.

No one is criticizing the excitment this years draft class brings to the table. In fact, I think everyone is happy with the play of the top few picks. No one is kidding themselves about the bottom few contributing, although there is hope that maybe they could. When things go right, of course the coaches and the front office gets the credit. The seats get filled. People buy Chiefs merchandise. It makes the organization money. There shouldn’t be thanks to give for doing their jobs

We expected a number of mistakes when fielding such a young team. What’s upsetting is the fact we went into Foxborough, and competed with the most perfect team every to play the game. Then they came home, and melted down against arguably the most one-dimensional team that isn’t us. There are no excuses for it. The team was absolutely, 100%, unequivocably NOT PREPARED TO PLAY. They went to New England with nothing to lose, and stayed in a game they had no business being in. Then they came home and expected to walk across the Raiders. THAT IS BAD COACHING.

What’s worse, is no feels the obligation to take any responsibility for being walked on at home. (If Herm even comes out and says anything about taking responsibility for being ill-prepared, everyone here will absolultely believe you ARE Herm, lol). No one (Except LARRY JOHNSON) has said, “I could have done more.” “I didn’t execute.” “I didn’t get my team ready this week.”

No, it was “Coach Kiffen stuck to their game plan and executed. We didn’t.” Wait, what? What kind of excuse is that? The kind a clueless sorry excuse for a coach would give. You play the game to mask your inadequacies, and work around them. Not expose them repeatedly, every game, and act like they aren’t there.

The team is playing like something they’re not. Whose fault is that? I can tell you it’s not the players fault.
Why do we have so much cap room and some of the poorest excuses of players at positions? If people are so bad, and Croyle is truly the QBoF, why didn’t they try to get him more protection than ONLY Branden Albert?

Its a smoke screen for something else. What that something else is, I don’t know. But it’s nearly insufferable to live through without any explanations.

have you seen my baseball?

by IISaiNtII on Sep 16, 2008 11:01 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I see where everyone is coming from

I think some people who already don’t like Herm as a coach see what we’ve seen so far as vindication, and many others are simply knee jerk overreacting and will calm back down once we get a win or two.

by ChiefDJ on Sep 16, 2008 11:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Herm

has yet to show he has anything to bring to the table being a head coach in this league. We’ll never know for sure whether or not he would have been fired from New York after the season he came here… what I do know is they were happy to be rid of him. You could say the same thing about Belichick and Cleveland (and New York?). But what did he do with the aging team he inherited from Parcells in New York? Hmm. Difference much?

have you seen my baseball?

by IISaiNtII on Sep 16, 2008 11:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Dammit

I meant new england.

have you seen my baseball?

by IISaiNtII on Sep 16, 2008 11:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

What did he do in New York?

He took them to the playoffs 3 times when they had only been to the playoffs once in the previous 10 years. People always say “Yeah but those were Parcells players!” Yes, most of them were, but the thing most people admit about Edwards is that he is good at finding talent and even if they were Parcells players, Edwards COACHED THEM into the playoffs.

But I don’t want to get into a debate here about Herms record, thats not really what this is all about. We’re talking about our attitudes as fans.

by ChiefDJ on Sep 16, 2008 11:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Touch'e

But I meant was what did Belichick do with the aging Parcell’s team he inherited at New England? Was he required to dismantle it completely and start over? or did he go win a superbowl his 2nd season as head coach with an unproven QB? Granted, that QB turned out to be Tom fricken’ Brady, but still. The team didn’t go into shambles.

There has been time to address many of our glaring needs since Edwards has been here, without the need to blame all the shortcomings on Vermeil. Vermeil did what he was brought in to do at the request of one Carl Peterson. You can’t blame Edwards situation on Vermeil and leave CP out of the equation.

Fact of the matter is, there have been alot of mistakes made in the last decade, that are still affecting this team negatively. The one constant throughout the whole thing is Peterson. So while we’ve had our chances to bitch and moan, as well as collect our thoughts, I for one, am ready for Sunday. Will we bounce back? Will we stay in the cesspool?

Until then, all we have to go on is history. And it tells me I am going to be pissed off Sunday afternoon.

have you seen my baseball?

by IISaiNtII on Sep 16, 2008 11:34 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Don't Run From A Debate

If you want to bring up Herm’s record as a coach, then man up and own up to the counter-argument.

Herm’s record as a head coach in New York was under .500. The two coaches before him were over .500 with the same core of players. Herm never won the division. He never won more than 10 games in a season. He never got past the second round of the playoffs. His final team was 4-12. His best offensive team was 15th in the league in points scored (while he still had Curtis Martin). He had one year where his defense cracked the top 10 in the league…that was also the only year where his team was in the top 10 in point and yardage differential (the best indicator of a team’s quality), every other year his team was in the bottom 10 for yardage differential and never got higher than 12th for point differential (and he only placed 12th his first year…the rest of the time he was in the bottom half of the league).

Simply put, Herm Edwards was a lousy coach in New York and he’s been a lousy coach in Kansas City and his teams’ performances have consistently reflected this. He has had one season where his team performed well and that has all the hallmarks of being a fluke year (since they were terrible the year before and worse the year after). There is no indication from his teams’ performances that Herm Edwards is a quality head coach in the NFL.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Sep 16, 2008 11:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't want to get into it because we've already gone over it a million times

The numbers are there and depending on your attitude towards Herm, the interpretation of those numbers are completely different.

The FACT is that he took a franchise that had only been to the playoffs once in the previous 10 years and when Herm took them they had gone two years without making a playoff appearance and then made 3 in 4 years.

Yes most of them were Parcells players, but Parcells also went 8-8 his last year there, so if Parcells had built such a great team that Herm was just along for the ride with, how come Parcells couldn’t take them back to the playoffs the next year? Or how come Al Grohl couldn’t go along for the ride the year after Parcells left?

How come Parcells didn’t go to more than one playoff in his time there? OH HE WAS REBUILDING THE TEAM! How come Herm doesn’t get that same excuse with the Chiefs?

Of course Herms win-loss record is skewed by the two really bad seasons he had there. But just as no one wants to understand why the offense was so horrible with a 3rd string 2nd year QB, you refuse to acknowledge that the 2003 team that went 5-10 was because they were on a 4th string QB with 11 starters on Injured Reserve.

So simply put, you don’t like the guy so you will interpret the record negatively. I DO like him so will interpret it positivly. Nothing much more to say about it.

by ChiefDJ on Sep 17, 2008 5:13 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

DJ

That’s one of the better arguments I’ve heard you make. I personally disagree and choose to interpret the facts differently but it’s nice to know we’re not going in a circle. :)

by primetime 07 on Sep 17, 2008 6:02 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It is a circle which is why I avoid talking about it anymore

Everyone that cares to know knows Herms record and will decide for themselves what it means. More important than the past though, is what he’s doing right now.

by ChiefDJ on Sep 17, 2008 9:35 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He who knows the past

controls the future.

have you seen my baseball?

by IISaiNtII on Sep 17, 2008 9:41 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

So Now You Dismiss The Critics As "Herm-Haters"
I think some people who already don’t like Herm as a coach see what we’ve seen so far as vindication, and many others are simply knee jerk overreacting and will calm back down once we get a win or two.

I’ll be blunt. Herm Edwards has won jack-shit in this league and he’s never given any indication that he’s better than what he’s already produced…which is pretty much nothing. His teams with the Chiefs have often been poorly prepared to play, he rarely accepts responsibility for the poor performance and his teams have gotten worse every year he’s been here.

If you’re unwilling to admit that the people who want Herm gone hold the position that is supported by objective evidence and that there is little to no evidence supporting your position that Herm Edwards is a good NFL head coach, then the people who want Herm out aren’t the ones being unreasonable and naive.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Sep 16, 2008 11:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

We'll See

Personally, I think Clark will start backpedaling on that fast if we get stomped by the Falcons.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Sep 17, 2008 6:16 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I still cannot wait

Till Sunday to watch. I feel the outcome will be the same, but I still love our team. Just seems like groundhog day.(The movie) It is the same thing over and over again. Run LJ into a brick wall repeatedly, nothing changes. How can I begin to believe things will get better in the future? New oc, same result, hell surprise me throw on first down once in a while.

by Eric Allen on Sep 16, 2008 8:20 PM CDT   0 recs

Technically

we do throw on first down: http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2008/9/15/614956/down-analysis-and-run-dire

Just saying. 24-24. For what it’s worth.

by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 16, 2008 8:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Most of the throws are late in the game

when we are behind and time is running out.

Few are “unexpected”

by NJChiefsFan on Sep 16, 2008 9:09 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You don't have to believe

You just have to suffer through it. Either it will get better and everyone will be happy, or it will stay bad, Herm will get fired, and we can go through the same thing with a different coach. One way or the other, the team has to be rebuilt and we have to go through the bad times.

by ChiefDJ on Sep 16, 2008 10:15 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Note what you said there.

“Either it will get better and everyone will be happy, or it will stay bad, Herm will get fired, and we can go through the same thing with a different coach.”

You’re essentially saying that even if it stays bad, Herm hasn’t done anything wrong. Is there anything he could do that would make you think maybe he’s not as good as we thought he was? That maybe he wasn’t the guy for the job?

by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 16, 2008 10:18 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

How do you figure?

You know the only reason I sound like I’m in love with Herm is because I find myself constantly feeling like I have to defend him.

The team has to make progress, theres no question. I just don’t think 2 games is my limit. If the Chiefs are 0-16 at the end of the year, obviously he has to go.

But the thing is the doubters think that Herm is the whole problem. He’s not. And no matter who you bring in, the rebuild has to happen. Fire Herm today and even if you bring in a coach with an identical philosophy, you still have to wait for the players to develop.

Bring in a coach with a totally different philosophy and we probably have several more years.

by ChiefDJ on Sep 16, 2008 10:24 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

See I'm fine with 0-16

0-16 is cool as long as we’re competitive. I’d rather be 0-16 and look like we’re becoming a real football team that can be a force in this league than be 4-12 and look like we have the last two weeks.

Again, it can happen. Easily. The team can come together and gel and turn it around and show some progress. But there is nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade, or calling shit shit.

And this is shit.

by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 16, 2008 10:27 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

What if we are 0-16 and competitive in most game?

Half of the games?

Where’s your line? I’m not sure of mine.

We’ve been competitve in half so far.

by NJChiefsFan on Sep 17, 2008 5:43 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It's more of a chronological thing

We need to look like a better team by the end of this season than we are now, just as we should have looked like a better team at the start of this season than we did at the end of last. Progress, put simply.

You really need to go back and watch the Patriots game. It looked like we were in it. But there were a ton of circumstances that led to that, and even then, I have no faith in us winning in overtime.

by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 17, 2008 10:48 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Circumstances

There’s always an excuse for a win in any game no matter who is playing it.

Sure, we got lucky with a Wes Welker fumble. But if Flowers, a rookie who looks to be a great player in the future, hadn’t made a rookie mistake and ran into the kicker, that drive would have been over earlier.

Sure, we got lucky that Tom Brady got knocked out of the game. But WE KNOCKED HIM OUT.

The fact that we were within 30 points of the Patriots should have been looked at as an enormous victory for the Chiefs, but the fans took at as a failure because we didn’t win.

Not talking about anyone specific, but I think a majority of Chiefs fans in general no mentally that they are going to lose games like that, but in their hearts they can’t stomach it.

by ChiefDJ on Sep 17, 2008 5:21 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

We were competitive against New England

Even when we shouldn’t have been, but the team was still criticized.

They didn’t look fantastic by any means, but the fact is, with or without Tom Brady, they ran neck and neck with the defending AFC Champions and the best head coachs in the NFL the last decade.

It wasn’t pretty and damn, with the motley group of rookies and place holders we have now, no win is going to be pretty. But why is that game that we nearly won seen as abject failure?

I just think a lot of people have unrealistic expectations about what a rebuilding team looks like.

by ChiefDJ on Sep 17, 2008 5:17 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Here's The Real Question
You know the only reason I sound like I’m in love with Herm is because I find myself constantly feeling like I have to defend him.

Why do you feel like you have to defend him? What has he actually done that merits you or anyone else defending him, other than not yet going 0-16? Because all I’ve seen is a coach who runs a terrible offense and loses a lot of games without accepting much responsibility.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Sep 16, 2008 10:28 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

But it's NOT only 2 games

You see this is what’s wrong with the whole way some of the fans look at things. The Chiefs are 0-11 since the last time they won a regular season game.
If it was ONLY 0-2 then all the Herm nay-sayers would be unfairly criticizing the coaching.

If we lose 5 more games in a row…then it’ll be 0-16. A COMPLETE year without a regular season win. Think about that.

by THE_TRUTH on Sep 17, 2008 11:54 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Actually, if I’m not mistaken, we were 0-11 last year with an almost entirely different team. We’ve got all new starters in a number of key positions on both sides of the ball.

You know many teams that go 0-11 in the regular season, get rid of about half their team, and plug in a bunch of rookies in their spots and then continue the season? Because I don’t.

Yes, it’ll have been a year since we won a game IF we go 0-5 over the next five games (and I don’t think we will), but that doesn’t mean much as it won’t be with the same team that lost the first 9 of those games.

by JacinB on Sep 17, 2008 12:16 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Well
You know many teams that go 0-11 in the regular season, get rid of about half their team, and plug in a bunch of rookies in their spots and then continue the season? Because I don’t.

Most teams that go 0-11 (or even 0-9) don’t keep the same head coach or GM…that’s called accountability.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Sep 17, 2008 12:21 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah. You’re right. And look how well that’s worked out for the Raiders and the Browns and Atlanta …

Boy, I wanna be just like them.

by JacinB on Sep 17, 2008 12:32 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You mean

the Raiders team that beat us convincingly this week?

by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 17, 2008 12:48 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Exactly my point Matt and UCrawford...

Excuses, excuses….we had another team then, another coach to blame, it wasn’t their fault, he didn’t inhale…blah blah blah.

The common denominator(s) stay the same don’t they? Carl and Herm.

Who do we blame?
How about Lamar Hunt since he started this organization…but now he’s not around….guess we should blame him.

It’s easier to blame someone else that’s not around isn’t it?
It all started with Marv Levy…..ooooooh and then Marty….yep he’s the one. Gun didn’t even count and was over his head…oh Dick V….what did he know he screwed us too.

Glad we got Carl to bring in all those guys (except for Marv…Carl figured he needed to clean that house and send him to Buffalo packing. Boy, Marv did a crappy job there didn’t he {sarcasm intended}. Yes, I’d take the SB appearances, at least they were there.

 THEY are the ones that brought us to this point not Carl or Herm.

by THE_TRUTH on Sep 17, 2008 1:34 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Marv Levy

He left the Chiefs in 1982 so I don’t think there’s really any way to blame Carl for that since he got here in ’89. :)

But I agree with everything else. It’s really interesting to me how when the Chiefs have consistently come up short during Peterson’s tenure people go out of their way to blame everyone but the person in charge. If there are any changes to be made with the team, it’s got to start with Peterson first…then the new guy can decide what he wants to do with Herm.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Sep 17, 2008 1:39 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

My Bad...

I stand corrected. I was trying to say that Levy did a lot better going to Buffalo post Chiefs. I was making a point about management not taking responsibility.

I’ve never heard in the 21 years Carl has been around that he took any type of blame. He even said that he’ll evalute his tenure ONCE he left …this was when he was asked about his legacy. That my friends…is funny. Seems to me I evalute my performance (not to mention management above me) much more then waiting 21 years.

Sorry ’bout that.

by THE_TRUTH on Sep 17, 2008 1:48 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

No Worries

Figured you might have meant that…just teasing. :)

You’re completely right about Carl Peterson, though…when his teams come up short, it’s always the coaches, or the players not doing their job, or the team being small-market, or whatever else. I can’t recall a single situation where he’s actually accepted responsibility for coming up short on his job. To borrow a phrase from Matt, he really is an insufferable prick.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Sep 17, 2008 2:00 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

JacinB hit the nail on the head

Last years team was last years team. Half those guys aren’t even on the squad anymore.

This is a new team, trying to develop new chemistry in a new offense with a new offensive coordinator who didn’t even know anybody on the Chiefs team 6 months